W5 "Final Boss" too hard for pug squads (raid-spoiler) — Guild Wars 2 Forums

W5 "Final Boss" too hard for pug squads (raid-spoiler)

Zaraki.5784Zaraki.5784 Member ✭✭✭✭
edited December 2, 2017 in Fractals, Dungeons, and Raids

The number of mechanics and coordination from teammates required for Dhuum's fight is really high compared to other old raid's bosses. So I was wondering, will this encounter be a static groups-only or people will learn to beat him even with pug groups with time?

"Sticks and stones may break your bones but words will never be able to injure you!"
The Grim Adventures of Billy & Mandy

Comments

  • Joxer.6024Joxer.6024 Member ✭✭✭

    "Pugs" already have, but it was work.

  • Zaraki.5784Zaraki.5784 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2, 2017

    @Joxer.6024 said:
    "Pugs" already have, but it was work.

    Maybe I explained myself badly, I'm not asking if 1 out of 1000 pug squads have beaten him by now, I'm asking if it'll be beaten like a Matthias or Deimos is, every week.

    "Sticks and stones may break your bones but words will never be able to injure you!"
    The Grim Adventures of Billy & Mandy

  • @Zaraki.5784 said:

    @Joxer.6024 said:
    "Pugs" already have, but it was work.

    Maybe I explained myself badly, I'm not asking if 1 out of 1000 pug squads have beaten him by now, I'm asking if it'll be beaten like a Matthias or Deimos is, every week.

    Of course it will, but it will take time as with any other boss. Dhuum has alot of mechanics that take time to learn, but if you find capable people, get on voice com and spend some time together you can get it for sure.

  • Joxer.6024Joxer.6024 Member ✭✭✭

    Ah...hard to tell. But several in my guild have cleared it, static though but I have heard of a lot of pugs doing it but then again, trolling perhaps? It will suck for awhile, just as VG did. Hell, folks STILL wipe on VG so yea, give it time.

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    The wing is still relatively new, give it time for strategies to develop which make it a much easier affair. I remember when pugs were banging their heads against Matthias for ages and now he’s just like any other boss, when Xera was seen as some epic boss fight with accompanying difficulty and yet now it’s been 5 manned.

  • @Joxer.6024 said:
    Ah...hard to tell. But several in my guild have cleared it, static though but I have heard of a lot of pugs doing it but then again, trolling perhaps? It will suck for awhile, just as VG did. Hell, folks STILL wipe on VG so yea, give it time.

    You have a clip?

    "It is impossible to live without failing at something, unless you live so cautiously that you might has well not have lived at all, in which case you have failed by default"- J.K Rowling
    “The more you know, the more you know you don't know.”-Aristotle

  • Joxer.6024Joxer.6024 Member ✭✭✭

    @Robban.1256 said:

    @Joxer.6024 said:
    Ah...hard to tell. But several in my guild have cleared it, static though but I have heard of a lot of pugs doing it but then again, trolling perhaps? It will suck for awhile, just as VG did. Hell, folks STILL wipe on VG so yea, give it time.

    You have a clip?

    of what? I wasn't in the group that did the kill, and they did cm first boss as well but hells no, not me, I'm too much of a scrub to run with them boys!!

  • Zaraki.5784Zaraki.5784 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2, 2017

    Wrong mess

    "Sticks and stones may break your bones but words will never be able to injure you!"
    The Grim Adventures of Billy & Mandy

  • Susy.7529Susy.7529 Member ✭✭✭

    @CptAurellian.9537 said:
    I dare question one thing, if raid content is supposed to be the hardest content in the game: Do we really need (average) PUGs to be capable of doing everything?

    Apart from that, apharma already mentioned the most important thing.

    Since every single raid bosses both old and new (excluding Dhuum, only atm) is pug-friendly, yes. And putting bosses who don't respect this will make most people upset.

  • Dhuum Raid boss will be killed by aprox. 300-400 players,, the rest will be not let to play it, without kill proof they won't be let to play it, it will be called Dhuum training! From there 100-200 ppl will kill it max! So aprox. max 600 players will kill Dhuum in the next 3-4 months! The rest of the player base will have to pay 2k gold for guilds who will do it for them! Yes it's 2000 gold atm!
    I say don't pay ever 2000 gold, let things settle, we don't even know if it worth it to do that boss, like it doesn't unlocks anything atm! Maybe, just maybe the legendary ring!

  • TexZero.7910TexZero.7910 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Susy.7529 said:

    @CptAurellian.9537 said:
    I dare question one thing, if raid content is supposed to be the hardest content in the game: Do we really need (average) PUGs to be capable of doing everything?

    Apart from that, apharma already mentioned the most important thing.

    Since every single raid bosses both old and new (excluding Dhuum, only atm) is pug-friendly, yes. And putting bosses who don't respect this will make most people upset.

    and ?

    They'll get over it and eventually thank Anet for making harder content that made them look for and find people they actually enjoy playing with.
    Besides it's not like those same people aren't already upset that their raiding to begin with.

  • Please don't nerf.

  • The new raid is less than a week old. It seems surprising that anyone would expect PUGs to beat it as often as raids that have been out for months and months.

    Hype is the path to the dark side. Hype leads to unfulfilled expectations. Disappointment leads to anger. Anger leads to disgust. Disgust leads to "oh, new shinies! I'm back!"

  • meeflak.9714meeflak.9714 Member ✭✭✭

    Arenanet.....please. Don't nerf this boss

    For real though the raids been out for less then a week. Don't expect pugs to be clearing it on every pull. I ougged it today and we got pretty darn good results. Wait for the community to figure out the best practices and when we're all up to speed it'll be just as pugable as the rest of them.

    Main ranger: Adalyn Del Rayna. Plz stop saying raids are toxic.. raids are what you make them

  • zoomborg.9462zoomborg.9462 Member ✭✭✭

    Doomguy is by all means a notch higher in difficulty than every other boss. It will just take way more time to figure out the best tactics but at some point pugs will be able to clear it like everything else.

  • Cynn.1659Cynn.1659 Member ✭✭✭

    @zoomborg.9462 said:
    Doomguy is by all means a notch higher in difficulty than every other boss. It will just take way more time to figure out the best tactics but at some point pugs will be able to clear it like everything else.

    Good pugs sure, but carebears will have really hard time with it. There are so many mechanics that will wipe the team if not done properly.

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Is it bad for 1 boss to be abit too hard for pugs? I mean it being on the same lvl defeat the the whole idea of progressing and demotivates new ppl to stick with raids.

  • meeflak.9714meeflak.9714 Member ✭✭✭

    Really though, how much harder is it then sab, xera, deimos, Matt, sloth? Dhuum is probably alittle harder then all of them sure, but not by much. Most pugs have no problems with these fights, so being a tad harder won't be the end all for pugs.

    Main ranger: Adalyn Del Rayna. Plz stop saying raids are toxic.. raids are what you make them

  • meeflak.9714meeflak.9714 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 4, 2017

    @zealex.9410 said:
    Is it bad for 1 boss to be abit too hard for pugs? I mean it being on the same lvl defeat the the whole idea of progressing and demotivates new ppl to stick with raids.

    It won't be too hard for pugs though, it's harder for pugs but it's killable. People will clear it more successfully in time.

    But on that note can we get a dev response to how they feel the raid turned out as a whole ? Personally it feels like one of the best crafted wings, and the bosses are alot of fun ( I haven't finished dhuum but gotten pretty close ) was balance where you wanted it to be ? Are you satisfied with the final boss ?

    I'd love to see some Dev feedback on it =) 💕

    Main ranger: Adalyn Del Rayna. Plz stop saying raids are toxic.. raids are what you make them

  • Daniel.5428Daniel.5428 Member ✭✭✭

    It's not even a week since it was introduced, just give it time. I am happy by myself, I did the first 3 bosses of the new wing in less than a week. Dhumm will be easier too when there will be a complex guide release. I already seen some pug groups trying it.

  • Ertrak.9506Ertrak.9506 Member ✭✭✭

    @nman.3714 said:
    Please don't nerf.

    Nerf the RP pre event though. Its kitten annoying.

  • Magnus Godrik.5841Magnus Godrik.5841 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Please your not special for defeating dhumm. Pugs are doing it and will do it more as time passes. Here's a cookie.

  • Vulf.3098Vulf.3098 Member ✭✭✭

    @Zaraki.5784 said:
    The number of mechanics and coordination from teammates required for Dhuum's fight is really high compared to other old raid's bosses. So I was wondering, will this encounter be a static groups-only or people will learn to beat him even with pug groups with time?

    As more people get used to the fight and mechanics it will get easier over time. This is the nature of how hard content works.

  • maxwelgm.4315maxwelgm.4315 Member ✭✭✭

    Dhuum is an iconic character from previously established lore, lore that devs are actually careful of "doing justice to it", so it makes a lot of sense that this boss has set the bar way up there for quality of content (be it difficulty or aesthetics). With that said, it's all a matter of memorization; I'm pretty sure I took more time in Tribulation Mode SAB than I will in order to learn any raid whatsoever, because the enrage timer makes training that much more streamlined and faster (an advantage few critics can see in the timers), and Dhuum is no different. When you first start content it feels both fresh and unknown, and both of these feelings will wade off in time no matter what content it may be (unless Anet decides for a crazy stochastic enemy model but that's not the cleverest design idea).

  • I got one question...does Dhuum dance when the group wipes like in GW1?

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  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    A "Nerf" id like to see on Dhuum would be to make his preeven thingy wjere you kill adds and protect the wraiths a 1 time thing.

  • mazut.4296mazut.4296 Member ✭✭✭

    @zealex.9410 said:
    A "Nerf" id like to see on Dhuum would be to make his preeven thingy wjere you kill adds and protect the wraiths a 1 time thing.

    Completely agree. This part of the fight is trivial. Should be only once per raid. It just feels pointless and waste of time.

  • Henry.5713Henry.5713 Member ✭✭✭✭

    It took most static groups far longer to beat the first wing consistantly than it will take pugs to beat Dhuum.

    Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something. ~ Robert Heinlein

  • miku.3025miku.3025 Member ✭✭

    I hv a little trouble with collecting orb for every green phase. Could high ping 400 be the reason? I know collecting blue orb in 99 cm is a problem for high ping players but not enough training in Dhuum green to confirm yet. I feel there's high risk of failing .. and it'd be very sad if we are disabled for such mechanic. :(

  • @miku.3025 said:
    I hv a little trouble with collecting orb for every green phase. Could high ping 400 be the reason? I know collecting blue orb in 99 cm is a problem for high ping players but not enough training in Dhuum green to confirm yet. I feel there's high risk of failing .. and it'd be very sad if we are disabled for such mechanic. :(

    I think it really is. Since orb taken phase has only 11 secs actually, if your ping is about 300 up, it means you might miss orbs even you think you already take it.
    Also, seems orbs calculating has some delay or what...

    But some player argue that their teammate should kill more spider to generate more small orbs ... I am not sure is that true?
    After all, I think Anet just need keep 15 secs is true but not 11 secs actually we can collect orbs.

  • Ze Dos Cavalos.6132Ze Dos Cavalos.6132 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 9, 2017

    Make orbs mechanic work with the client so they never lag for anyone.
    When hot was released gliding was connected to the server and ppl with 400 ping could never glide properly, one day anet changed gliding to a mechanic connected to the game client and I never had a gliding problem again.
    If they do the same with these orbs 400 ping players can catch them just by touching them instead of having to dance around them for 2 sec.

  • Lunarlife.5128Lunarlife.5128 Member ✭✭✭

    The last boss being very hard to kill in a raid makes sense.
    Should usually be: First boss is easy to get feet wet. Second boss ramps it up. Third boss is harder. Final boss breaks things.

  • LordOtto.2650LordOtto.2650 Member ✭✭
    edited December 10, 2017

    The green orb mechanic is still horrible, after giving some key skills for it too! Why can't we just control it like when we press up plus space we go up, when we press down plus shift go down and in our normal phase, like if we were in a water!? I really feel like I'm a monkey in space, and space suit jump atm!
    Again do something about the orb mechanic, so we can play that boss already! How in earth could you manage to make good gliding, and mess up this one?! It's like two different teams working on it, and one doesn't have a clue what would help us! In 11 sec to take 5 orbs, please let the orb to be controllable, atm number 1 and 3 skills are like jumping in space, we could really ascend with space and descend with shift, and again more fin, more elegant, more controllable!

    The last boss, Dhuum is not hard, the orb mechanic is hard, other then that the other mechanics are very good, and doable, but to rely on 3 person, who will do it the entire game the greens is just a joke made for us! Atm, there are few trainings on Dhuum, atm fewer people can do greens, every lfg asks for green ppl! It takes energy, it takes effort, time to fix that orb to control it, it should be like when we are just racing with a little car for example and take the points; that's how it should be like, to be controllable! Fix it please!
    Thank you!

  • Malediktus.9250Malediktus.9250 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 10, 2017

    Raids should not be balanced around pugs with no communication, so I think it is fine as it is.
    (Myself I have not beaten Dhuum yet, but it is doable with effort)

    Also considering he is a lich with god status, he should be almost impossible to defeat for mortals lorewise.

  • @Malediktus.9250 said:
    Raids should not be balanced around pugs with no communication, so I think it is fine as it is.
    (Myself I have not beaten Dhuum yet, but it is doable with effort)

    Also considering he is a lich with god status, he should be almost impossible to defeat for mortals lorewise.

    So it is worth about selling the godlike boss?
    Well it's another issue, but I just think some mechanism should get some fix.

  • Malediktus.9250Malediktus.9250 Member ✭✭✭✭

    what do you mean with selling? on EU there are already a few guilds selling dhuum kills. But the price is probably outrageous for the first few weeks, especially since those guilds are known for price collusions

  • Don't nerf. It needs to stay the way it is. Don't back down anet, players need to know that's this is how it needs to be. They will get better over time and this ,like others before it, will be easy.

  • One of the wing I truely enjoy. :) Weldone again anet.

  • Daniel.5428Daniel.5428 Member ✭✭✭

    The boss itself is not that hard, it deserves no nerf. But please do something about the greens. Orb mechanic is pretty screwed. One lag spike and you are out.

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