Stealth — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Stealth

Morwath.9817Morwath.9817 Member ✭✭✭✭

Could we get rework like Heroes of the Storm?

9FARDCNDARAU1511386715378.gif

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Comments

  • Morwath.9817Morwath.9817 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Cynz.9437 said:
    Different game..... different mechanics.

    Ooo, yes... but reasoning Blizzard picked to make changes could apply here also. They are changing Stealth because it's overpowered against inexperienced players and unfun to play against, while not being good enough against experienced players. Right now, you can't properly balance Thieves and Mesmers, because they have access to Stealth.

    Wouldn't you welcome "visual" nerf to it, while getting buffs somewhere else at same time?

  • Quaggan thinks that it should be like world of warcraft where they are completely invisible far away but then when they come closer you can see them a little bit.

    Currently Quaggan observes that they are deleted from the game graphically when in stealth.

    | Top Cyber Athlete | Leader of yelling stuff in pvp lobby

  • Morwath.9817Morwath.9817 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2, 2017

    @huehuehueh.5106 said:
    Quaggan thinks that it should be like world of warcraft where they are completely invisible far away but then when they come closer you can see them a little bit.

    Currently Quaggan observes that they are deleted from the game graphically when in stealth.

    Quaggan thinks they should be "visible" while they are close, yet stealth could apply defensive buffs to compensate, which could linger for a while after leaving stealth.

  • Razor.6392Razor.6392 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Some indicator (even if almost unnoticable) would be fine, especially at close range.

    In return, revealed should either be removed or preserve stealth, just allowing people to see them very clearly, that way stuff like shadow arts traits will still work.

    Never said I'm the best, but I believe I'm better than you.

  • Probably wont work since just know the location of a stealthed enemy is enough to do most of your damage. If there was any hint to an exact location like in that gif then stealth would almost be useless.

    i do think what the post above me suggest with stealth working with distance is interesting. maybe even an ability or trait could be reworked into or added to a class as an anti stealth mechanic like that.

  • Morwath.9817Morwath.9817 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Brandon.8294 said:
    Probably wont work since just know the location of a stealthed enemy is enough to do most of your damage. If there was any hint to an exact location like in that gif then stealth would almost be useless.

    i do think what the post above me suggest with stealth working with distance is interesting. maybe even an ability or trait could be reworked into or added to a class as an anti stealth mechanic like that.

    Quaggan disagrees, whenever you use Shadow Refuge to counter targeting, prevent stomp and revive your ally it works, despite fact your enemes know you're there reviving downed ally and they can cleave. If your stealth would let them see you, but not target, nothing would change in this case... and if as compensation it would apply additional damage mitigation to you and affected allies (e.g. protection, cleanse conditions per tick and/or regenerate more HP) it would be even better.

  • MyPuppy.8970MyPuppy.8970 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I'd rather have stealth working like Evelynn in LoL.

  • Lilyanna.9361Lilyanna.9361 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 2, 2017

    Funny part is stealth is worse in SWTOR, yet is somehow healthier at the same time. You out right cannot see an Assassin until they wombo combo you.

    Anyone remember the stray Deception Assassin that 100-0 you, if you weren't outright predicting them? But to be fair, if you take a SWTOR PVP noob and a GW2 PVP noob, the SWTOR with 95 percent of the time win.

  • Cynz.9437Cynz.9437 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 3, 2017

    Once again, different game, different mechanics. The gw2 stealth design is created around gw2 combat, not combat of other games.
    In wow a lot of spells require target, gw2 is different thing.
    Also, say we take wow for example, stealth isn't only mechanic rogues have to survive. They have for example CC chains that thieves will never have.
    Take stealth from LoL - once again stealth there is not main mechanic of the class. They can do fine without stealth, thief on other hand depends on it.

    As far as mirage goes, do we really need to open that can of homogenization?

    But let's assume for a sec Anet changed stealth to be easily determined like in other games - we would have effect as we had with DD at HoT lauch. Thief resorted to dodge spam and to less stealth (hello revs) which resulted in people crying about dodge and.... dodges and vigor being nerfed over and over and over again. I mean why not just ask to deleted thieves, be honest.

    GW is P2Win. We are always lied to.

  • Westenev.5289Westenev.5289 Member ✭✭✭✭

    ... Why would anyone use stealth if it were just a lightly coloured version of spectual walk? It'd be essentially the same as complaining about Ele PvE DPS, and suggesting all of their weapon skills should conjure rubber ducks that hit for precisely 5 damage.

  • Morwath.9817Morwath.9817 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Cynz.9437 said:
    Once again, different game, different mechanics. The gw2 stealth design is created around gw2 combat, not combat of other games.
    In wow a lot of spells require target, gw2 is different thing.
    Also, say we take wow for example, stealth isn't only mechanic rogues have to survive. They have for example CC chains that thieves will never have.
    Take stealth from LoL - once again stealth there is not main mechanic of the class. They can do fine without stealth, thief on other hand depends on it.

    As far as mirage goes, do we really need to open that can of homogenization?

    But let's assume for a sec Anet changed stealth to be easily determined like in other games - we would have effect as we had with DD at HoT lauch. Thief resorted to dodge spam and to less stealth (hello revs) which resulted in people crying about dodge and.... dodges and vigor being nerfed over and over and over again. I mean why not just ask to deleted thieves, be honest.

    Ooo, you say "stealth design is created for gw2 combat", Quaggan agrees.
    However, in Quaggans opinion it's poorly designed, there is no reason to not rework it, if you could reach certain goals, e.g.:
    a) Mechanic being more noob friendly;
    b) Mechanic being less frustrating to play against;
    c) If mechanic would have more downsides, you can add real upsides to it, especially when you could invest into stealth traits (Shadow Arts traits could be more rewarding with "weaker" stealth).

  • @MyPuppy.8970 said:
    I'd rather have stealth working like Evelynn in LoL.

    Yeah and she sacrifices a lot of 1v1 strength for that stealth. Not to mention she only gets it at lvl 6. It's properly balanced there while here in GW2 stealth mechanics for all classes definitely need reevaluation.

  • Dahkeus.8243Dahkeus.8243 Member ✭✭✭

    I actually really like the stealth in GW2. =-(

  • Swagg.9236Swagg.9236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    GW2 stealth shouldn't have existed in the first place. Thief isn't a real class; it was designed as a showcase for stealth. Mesmer got stealth because it was hamfisted into a few skills for flavor's sake. As time went on, other classes continued to get it in varied, arbitrary amounts. Given how safe it is to cast a ranged, instant burst from perfect invisibility, GW2 stealth really does nothing but take away from the game at large.

    The only remotely fair instance of perfect invisibility I've seen in video games exists within Team Fortress 2, and it goes to show how many down-sides and design consideration (various overpowered incarnations of the Dead Ringer aside) that such an obscenely powerful mechanic requires in order to be considered "balanced" or "acceptable" on any level. Perfect invisibility is not something from which players should be able to launch instant, lethal attacks from range, and yet that is all that GW2 stealth has encouraged. GW2 stealth is not a well-thought out implementation of an idea: it's the result of somebody saying "We could make a stealth rogue class, right?" and then doing it without really considering how such a mechanic's presence would impact the rest of the game.

  • DeceiverX.8361DeceiverX.8361 Member ✭✭✭✭

    The visibility of a stealthed target close by only works in purely tab-targeted games.

    All you'd need to do is play in action camera and it'd completely negate any purpose of stealth at all in this game.

    Stealth just needs to be made less spammable or made higher-risk. I don't think anyone's complaining about Cloak and Dagger being overpowered despite the fact it can keep a thief stealthed indefinitely given SA because it's just super easy to counter if it's used repeatedly and has a hit condition tied to it making it unreliable.

    Granted, they'd also need to reduce efficacy of low-risk damage negation and the likes if they took this mentality. because it's just as bad if not worse by design and definitely worse numerically.

    You sure that Sniper idea is as good as you thought it was gonna be?
    Because I think my original idea is better.

  • Morwath.9817Morwath.9817 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 4, 2017

    @Philelectric.3769 said:

    @Morwath.9817 said:

    @Westenev.5289 said:
    ... Why would anyone use stealth if it were just a lightly coloured version of spectual walk? It'd be essentially the same as complaining about Ele PvE DPS, and suggesting all of their weapon skills should conjure rubber ducks that hit for precisely 5 damage.

    @Philelectric.3769 said:

    @Morwath.9817 said:
    Could we get rework like Heroes of the Storm?

    9FARDCNDARAU1511386715378.gif

    Foooooo. If both of you would actualy read more than 1st post, you would know, that Quaggan actualy is asking about -buff- to stealth, rather than -nerf- while reworking it. As Quaggan believes, reworked stealth would need buffs [e.g. extra boons while you enter/leave stealth for Thief and his stealthed allies and better SA traits].

    You want to make stealth better? Remove the CD on backstab

    Ooo, with "visible" stealth? Quaggan could agree to that.
    Some of you (Thief mains) panic too much over suggestion, let me use example of Ranger - bow can't do anything to you without a target (with exception of Joko Barrage), so can't Staff with exception of Vine Surge (if you don't dodge), Ranger won't be able to hit you with warhorns Hunter's Call, sword won't directly charge on you and AA damage on it is a Joko, neither he will be able to send pets to attack you, so basicaly only GS could be handy and to truly harm you, Ranger would need to use Entangle with GS...

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 3, 2017

    @Morwath.9817 said:

    @Cynz.9437 said:
    Once again, different game, different mechanics. The gw2 stealth design is created around gw2 combat, not combat of other games.
    In wow a lot of spells require target, gw2 is different thing.
    Also, say we take wow for example, stealth isn't only mechanic rogues have to survive. They have for example CC chains that thieves will never have.
    Take stealth from LoL - once again stealth there is not main mechanic of the class. They can do fine without stealth, thief on other hand depends on it.

    As far as mirage goes, do we really need to open that can of homogenization?

    But let's assume for a sec Anet changed stealth to be easily determined like in other games - we would have effect as we had with DD at HoT lauch. Thief resorted to dodge spam and to less stealth (hello revs) which resulted in people crying about dodge and.... dodges and vigor being nerfed over and over and over again. I mean why not just ask to deleted thieves, be honest.

    Ooo, you say "stealth design is created for gw2 combat", Quaggan agrees.
    However, in Quaggans opinion it's poorly designed, there is no reason to not rework it, if you could reach certain goals, e.g.:
    a) Mechanic being more noob friendly;
    b) Mechanic being less frustrating to play against;
    c) If mechanic would have more downsides, you can add real upsides to it, especially when you could invest into stealth traits (Shadow Arts traits could be more rewarding with "weaker" stealth).

    More to the point Stealth as a mechanic was created for GW2 combat as it was at launch. The combat in GW2 has got faster and changed substantially since then, where stealth was largely something you couldn’t camp without significant investment or help with blasts in smoke fields from others. Now since the trait rework, some new skills and the increased availability of leap/blast finishers on some classes which gained a smoke field stealth is a much larger issue than it ever has been.

    Stealth as a mechanic needs a rework and as part of the thief would likewise need some adjustments making depending on what was done. I doubt messmer would need much or anything done to it though as only the bad ones stealth camp.

    Edit: forgot to add, as stealth is a universal mechanic consideration does need to be given across all game modes as if it operates differently in each mode it would probably be worse than now. While I don’t think stealth as a mechanic is that big an issue in PvP outside of stealth openings and cheesy camp and one shot builds it’s certainly a major issue in WvW.

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @DeceiverX.8361 said:
    The visibility of a stealthed target close by only works in purely tab-targeted games.

    All you'd need to do is play in action camera and it'd completely negate any purpose of stealth at all in this game.

    Stealth just needs to be made less spammable or made higher-risk. I don't think anyone's complaining about Cloak and Dagger being overpowered despite the fact it can keep a thief stealthed indefinitely given SA because it's just super easy to counter if it's used repeatedly and has a hit condition tied to it making it unreliable.

    Granted, they'd also need to reduce efficacy of low-risk damage negation and the likes if they took this mentality. because it's just as bad if not worse by design and definitely worse numerically.

    Personally I think forced reveal when you come out of stealth or/and stealth no longer stacking might be as good a suggestion as I’ve seen. Both have their flaws obviously and as I mentioned previously there would need to be a number of traits reworked, thieves could also lose the CD on BS if stealth times were reduced as it already has a 1/2s cast as a barrier to spamming.

  • Burnfall.9573Burnfall.9573 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 3, 2017

    I'm all for Anet to completely remove stealth all together from all the classes. It's a toxic bad design which should never exist in the Gw2. Heck, it did even exist in Gw1 and made Gw1 a healthy competitive environment.

    Ever since stealth was introduced in Gw2: it had pushed out the population out of the game and wrecked all the fun and the competitive gaming scene out of the window.

    Why not learn from mistakes which damaged your product? Anet answer was to expand stealth to other classes which increased more damage to the game even more. Decreasing the population even more resulting in Gw2 profits and reputation in the gaming industry declining even more.

    So...No!

    As long Anet embraces toxic design, stealth will remain in their toxic state

    (Gw2 competitors strives to embraces healthy competitive design including stealth in their game)

    Toxicity Reward-Only Design belong in Gw2, Leave healthy fair competitive risk+reward design to Gw2 competitor's.

    Thanks

  • Philelectric.3769Philelectric.3769 Member ✭✭
    edited December 3, 2017

    Ooo, with "visible" stealth? Quaggan could agree to that.
    Some of you (Thief mains) panic too much over suggestion, let me use example of Ranger - bow can't do anything to you without a target (with exception of Joko Barrage), so can't Staff with exception of Vine Surge (if you don't dodge), Ranger won't be able to hit you with warhorns Hunter's Call, sword won't directly charge on you and AA damage on it is a Joko, neither he will be able to send pets to attack you, so basicaly only GS could be handy and to truly harm you, Ranger would need to use Entangle with GS...

    bow can't do anything to you without a target (with exception of Joko Barrage)- Thats 100% false, Rapid fire can hit a stealthed player. In fact, its not hard to hit a stealthed player with rapid fire, hunter's shot and point blank shot. same goes for all the GS skills. If you see a black powder+ heartseeker combo, lead your shots toward the black powder and you will hit the thief (even the one I'm asking you to show on the dolls where he touched you in the wrong way).

    Also, sometimes the pet will follow a stealthed player and land a few hits for 1 or 2 sec.

    Go play a d/p thief for a while. I suggest roaming in WvW or unranked because your job isnt to take fights in sPvP. Find decent and good players to fight and go feel the frustration of getting hit by random spams(with 1200+range) the whole duration of your stealth. You'll realise how must LoS is your friend even when you go dark.

    Now Ele: they have plenty of abilities to hit some1 in stealth so stealth was never a problem for them.
    Guardians and necros have plenty of abilities to hit a stealthed player aswell. Stealth was never a problem for them.
    Rev have enough abilities to hit some1 in stealth and also have a couple of defensive abilities to prevent any burst from stealth.
    Warrior are pretty much in the situation ranger is but way better when we talk about easily dealing with stealth.
    Mesmer have stealth and a few defensive abilities to easily deal with it. It will most likely depend on Core/Chrono or Mirage
    Engi(holo and scrapper for the most part) Have the tools to hit and defend from any stealth burst. There is even stealth in their fighting tools to deal with it

  • Morwath.9817Morwath.9817 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 3, 2017

    @Philelectric.3769 said:

    Ooo, with "visible" stealth? Quaggan could agree to that.
    Some of you (Thief mains) panic too much over suggestion, let me use example of Ranger - bow can't do anything to you without a target (with exception of Joko Barrage), so can't Staff with exception of Vine Surge (if you don't dodge), Ranger won't be able to hit you with warhorns Hunter's Call, sword won't directly charge on you and AA damage on it is a Joko, neither he will be able to send pets to attack you, so basicaly only GS could be handy and to truly harm you, Ranger would need to use Entangle with GS...

    bow can't do anything to you without a target (with exception of Joko Barrage)- Thats 100% false, Rapid fire can hit a stealthed player. In fact, its not hard to hit a stealthed player with rapid fire, hunter's shot and point blank shot. same goes for all the GS skills. If you see a black powder+ heartseeker combo, lead your shots toward the black powder and you will hit the thief (even the one I'm asking you to show on the dolls where he touched you in the wrong way).

    Also, sometimes the pet will follow a stealthed player and land a few hits for 1 or 2 sec.

    Go play a d/p thief for a while. I suggest roaming in WvW or unranked because your job isnt to take fights in sPvP. Find decent and good players to fight and go feel the frustration of getting hit by random spams(with 1200+range) the whole duration of your stealth. You'll realise how must LoS is your friend even when you go dark.

    Now Ele: they have plenty of abilities to hit some1 in stealth so stealth was never a problem for them.
    Guardians and necros have plenty of abilities to hit a stealthed player aswell. Stealth was never a problem for them.
    Rev have enough abilities to hit some1 in stealth and also have a couple of defensive abilities to prevent any burst from stealth.
    Warrior are pretty much in the situation ranger is but way better when we talk about easily dealing with stealth.
    Mesmer have stealth and a few defensive abilities to easily deal with it. It will most likely depend on Core/Chrono or Mirage
    Engi(holo and scrapper for the most part) Have the tools to hit and defend from any stealth burst. There is even stealth in their fighting tools to deal with it

    Quaggan thinks you've never played Ranger, because otherwise you would know that if Rapid Fire or Point Blank have no target you can side step and they will... miss, thats because they are firing in straight line like Bristlebacks in PvE. Try to shoot those with disabled auto targeting (just to imagine target is stealthed) while "aiming" without target at moving mob at higher distance and watch your arrows hit air...

  • Cynz.9437Cynz.9437 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 3, 2017

    If they were to change stealth, they would have to change a lot of spells. Which is a lot of work. A LOT. For what exactly? So few noob players and players without map awareness can have more advantage? I mean honestly? Don't we already have enough builds every season which carry inexperienced players to rating where they don't belong? You really want to help them? I would prefer Anet to invest their resources into making pvp better (MM, rank/gain loss system, templates, class balance split between pve and pvp etc.).

    I never saw any decent player complaining about stealth in this game. It is probably most dynamic and more thought through implementation of stealth across all games i have played before (and i played quite few of them).

    @Burnfall.9573 said:
    I'm all for Anet to completely remove stealth all together from all the classes. It's a toxic bad design which should never exist in the Gw2. Heck, it did even exist in Gw1 and made Gw1 a healthy competitive environment.

    Ever since stealth was introduced in Gw2: it had pushed out the population out of the game and wrecked all the fun and the competitive gaming scene out of the window.

    Why not learn from mistakes which damaged your product? Anet answer was to expand stealth to other classes which increased more damage to the game even more. Decreasing the population even more resulting in Gw2 profits and reputation in the gaming industry declining even more.

    So...No!

    As long Anet embraces toxic design, stealth will remain in their toxic state

    (Gw2 competitors strives to embraces healthy competitive design including stealth in their game)

    Toxicity Reward-Only Design belong in Gw2, Leave healthy fair competitive risk+reward design to Gw2 competitor's.

    Thanks

    Oh the irony coming it from rev that was literary designed (and made OP) to sell HoT xpac. What is truly more toxic, huh?

    GW is P2Win. We are always lied to.

  • Crinn.7864Crinn.7864 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I don't even like thieves, but the OP's proposed change is still stupid.

    Sanity is for the weak minded
    YouTube

  • messiah.1908messiah.1908 Member ✭✭✭✭

    what if stealth was used only as a defense mode.

    only when you in combat mode you can get stealth . so no offense approach when starting a fight.
    and maybe when you get stealth you shadow step away from your target - defense mode

  • Cynz.9437Cynz.9437 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @messiah.1908 said:
    what if stealth was used only as a defense mode.

    only when you in combat mode you can get stealth . so no offense approach when starting a fight.
    and maybe when you get stealth you shadow step away from your target - defense mode

    They would have to rework stealth attacks then. Once again, do you really think they would invest so much money to pleasure players that have 0 awareness?

    GW is P2Win. We are always lied to.

  • Lighter.5631Lighter.5631 Member ✭✭✭

    @Cynz.9437 said:

    @messiah.1908 said:
    what if stealth was used only as a defense mode.

    only when you in combat mode you can get stealth . so no offense approach when starting a fight.
    and maybe when you get stealth you shadow step away from your target - defense mode

    They would have to rework stealth attacks then. Once again, do you really think they would invest so much money to pleasure players that have 0 awareness?

    how can gain awareness to a stealthed target lol...

  • messiah.1908messiah.1908 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Cynz.9437 said:

    @messiah.1908 said:
    what if stealth was used only as a defense mode.

    only when you in combat mode you can get stealth . so no offense approach when starting a fight.
    and maybe when you get stealth you shadow step away from your target - defense mode

    They would have to rework stealth attacks then. Once again, do you really think they would invest so much money to pleasure players that have 0 awareness?

    just options. my real problem is how this game become so boring
    no uniqueness in class any more

    every one have most boons.
    everyone have same conditions bomb.
    everyone have cc
    most classes get more stealth abilities
    everyone put high dmg

    so choose thief,mesmer,necro,holo etc... you will do high dmg.... so why to choose thief or mesmer or whatever,,,,,

    necro should be the summoner and all boon corrupt
    mesmer is the illusion control and boon support
    ele is the healer or nuke element
    ranger is the trap and spirits
    thief is the stealthy kitten
    warrior is the sustain
    guard is the protector and bunker
    engi is the toolbet mastermind
    revenent is the condition and team power

    anet should stop trying to make each class do it all theme

  • @Morwath.9817 said:

    Quaggan thinks you've never played Ranger, because otherwise you would know that if Rapid Fire or Point Blank have no target you can side step and they will... miss, thats because they are firing in straight line like Bristlebacks in PvE. Try to shoot those with disabled auto targeting (just to imagine target is stealthed) while "aiming" without target at moving mob at higher distance and watch your arrows hit air...

    The more you post,the more you look like a fool. I sometimes play ranger and I main thief. You 100% never played thief. Go try it and see how mesmer GS autos and how rapid fire is surprisingly good even if you see it shoot in a line, you still hit the stealthed player. Asking for a change to a fine aspect of a game is more likely cause by a problem with your ingame capabilities also known as l2p issue. Ive listed all an overview of the easy tools every classes have and I gave you explanations on why ranger can still deal damage to stealthed players and yet you rufuse to see the truth. When you cant see the truth and even have to RP a quaggan because you are too shy to admit the l2p issue as a human being, you show everyone how meaningless most of your post on the forums are. Unless you admit you have a l2p issue, I see no points in showing you the truth over and over again. To every arguments you will lie, you can refer to my previous post. Thank you,have a great time and you can always improve.

  • Alatar.7364Alatar.7364 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 4, 2017

    I used to believe that Stealth could get a bit of rework without any harm. But I learnt it is really not necessary.
    I am all up for more newbie friendly environment, but this Rework won't do it, it is simply way too much for something that is already incredibly predictable.
    Can't even remember what is the last time I got killed by Thief in Stealth, always can smell them miles away. On the Other hand that might be all the time and experience I got with playing Thief. Yet, Warriors GS skills, Scourge AoE spam and Ranger's Rapid Fire (or any kitten LB skill) have killed more Players in Stealth than they did without it. Also, in this Age of AoE Reign, a "nerf" to Stealth is the very very very last thing anyone needs.

    ~ I Aear cân ven na mar

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Philelectric.3769 said:

    @Morwath.9817 said:

    Quaggan thinks you've never played Ranger, because otherwise you would know that if Rapid Fire or Point Blank have no target you can side step and they will... miss, thats because they are firing in straight line like Bristlebacks in PvE. Try to shoot those with disabled auto targeting (just to imagine target is stealthed) while "aiming" without target at moving mob at higher distance and watch your arrows hit air...

    The more you post,the more you look like a fool. I sometimes play ranger and I main thief. You 100% never played thief. Go try it and see how mesmer GS autos and how rapid fire is surprisingly good even if you see it shoot in a line, you still hit the stealthed player. Asking for a change to a fine aspect of a game is more likely cause by a problem with your ingame capabilities also known as l2p issue. Ive listed all an overview of the easy tools every classes have and I gave you explanations on why ranger can still deal damage to stealthed players and yet you rufuse to see the truth. When you cant see the truth and even have to RP a quaggan because you are too shy to admit the l2p issue as a human being, you show everyone how meaningless most of your post on the forums are. Unless you admit you have a l2p issue, I see no points in showing you the truth over and over again. To every arguments you will lie, you can refer to my previous post. Thank you,have a great time and you can always improve.

    I think it is you with the L2P issue if you think a mesmer can use a GS auto on a stealthed opponent. I mean sure if you start the attack before the stealth it keeps going for the whole channel but are we really at a point of complaining at the pitiful damage it does compared to denying the use of 3 of the weapon skills on the GS?

    Whether it’s stealth camping mesmer, thief, scrapper, druid or some other future elite spec, he still has a point where entire weapon sets are shut down by stealth because you do not have a target and no scoping into thin air is just hilarious.

  • Morwath.9817Morwath.9817 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 4, 2017

    @Philelectric.3769 said:

    @Morwath.9817 said:

    Quaggan thinks you've never played Ranger, because otherwise you would know that if Rapid Fire or Point Blank have no target you can side step and they will... miss, thats because they are firing in straight line like Bristlebacks in PvE. Try to shoot those with disabled auto targeting (just to imagine target is stealthed) while "aiming" without target at moving mob at higher distance and watch your arrows hit air...

    The more you post,the more you look like a fool. I sometimes play ranger and I main thief. You 100% never played thief. Go try it and see how mesmer GS autos and how rapid fire is surprisingly good even if you see it shoot in a line, you still hit the stealthed player. Asking for a change to a fine aspect of a game is more likely cause by a problem with your ingame capabilities also known as l2p issue. Ive listed all an overview of the easy tools every classes have and I gave you explanations on why ranger can still deal damage to stealthed players and yet you rufuse to see the truth. When you cant see the truth and even have to RP a quaggan because you are too shy to admit the l2p issue as a human being, you show everyone how meaningless most of your post on the forums are. Unless you admit you have a l2p issue, I see no points in showing you the truth over and over again. To every arguments you will lie, you can refer to my previous post. Thank you,have a great time and you can always improve.

    Quaggan haven't said you can't deal damage to stealthed people nor that RF doesn't work, but that person who has clues will simply side step and it will miss. Your entire belief I've any issues with Thieves is rather silly, just because I propose rework to stealth, which is mechanic many professions have access to (including Ranger via multiple sources)... but yeah, you can always improve.

  • OriOri.8724OriOri.8724 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 4, 2017

    @Morwath.9817 said:

    @Westenev.5289 said:
    ... Why would anyone use stealth if it were just a lightly coloured version of spectual walk? It'd be essentially the same as complaining about Ele PvE DPS, and suggesting all of their weapon skills should conjure rubber ducks that hit for precisely 5 damage.

    @Philelectric.3769 said:

    @Morwath.9817 said:
    Could we get rework like Heroes of the Storm?

    9FARDCNDARAU1511386715378.gif

    Foooooo. If both of you would actualy read more than 1st post, you would know, that Quaggan actualy is asking about -buff- to stealth, rather than -nerf- while reworking it. As Quaggan believes, reworked stealth would need buffs [e.g. extra boons while you enter/leave stealth for Thief and his stealthed allies and better SA traits].

    I don't understand how this proposal buffs stealth, I really don't. Where else would you buff stealth if you nerf the stealth part of it?

    Back on topic, I abhor stealth in GW2. I think its an incredibly bad implementation of stealth and is insanely overpowered in some contexts, while also hamstringing thief in other cases since you can't contest a point while stealthed (which is healthy . I'm not suggesting this be removed). I think that both stealth and revealed spam is off the charts in this game, and both need to be toned back significantly. I really think that only a few classes should have access to stealth at all, that being thief, mesmer to a lesser extent and maybe 1 skill from an elite spec from another profession and that should be it. Remove stealth from combo finishers, instead give thief a baseline effect to change how leap and blast finishers work in smoke fields so they aren't affected (though I also think that the duration from combo finishers should be lowered by 0.5-1 second). Then look at toning down mesmer access and thief access to stealth (thief less so than mesmer, but they can currently stack too much imo). For mesmer, the first target would be PU. Taking it down to 33% increased duration would be a good starting point along with changing desperate decoy.

    Eyyyy I unlocked signatures

  • Morwath.9817Morwath.9817 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 4, 2017

    @OriOri.8724 said:

    I don't understand how this proposal buffs stealth, I really don't. Where else would you buff stealth if you nerf the stealth part of it?

    @Morwath.9817 said:
    Quaggan thinks they should be "visible" while they are close, yet stealth could apply defensive buffs to compensate, which could linger for a while after leaving stealth.

    @Morwath.9817 said:
    and if as compensation it would apply additional damage mitigation to you and affected allies (e.g. protection, cleanse conditions per tick and/or regenerate more HP) it would be even better.

    Depending on skill granting Stealth, Quaggan would give it side effect - it could be cleanse, protection, swiftness/superspeed maybe even short blurry (1s?) while entering it, maybe cleanse, healing per tick during, and protection, fury, might while leaving. Same goes for Shadow Arts in case of Thief.

  • Burnfall.9573Burnfall.9573 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 4, 2017

    @Cynz.9437 said:
    If they were to change stealth, they would have to change a lot of spells. Which is a lot of work. A LOT. For what exactly? So few noob players and players without map awareness can have more advantage? I mean honestly? Don't we already have enough builds every season which carry inexperienced players to rating where they don't belong? You really want to help them? I would prefer Anet to invest their resources into making pvp better (MM, rank/gain loss system, templates, class balance split between pve and pvp etc.).

    I never saw any decent player complaining about stealth in this game. It is probably most dynamic and more thought through implementation of stealth across all games i have played before (and i played quite few of them).

    @Burnfall.9573 said:
    I'm all for Anet to completely remove stealth all together from all the classes. It's a toxic bad design which should never exist in the Gw2. Heck, it did even exist in Gw1 and made Gw1 a healthy competitive environment.

    Ever since stealth was introduced in Gw2: it had pushed out the population out of the game and wrecked all the fun and the competitive gaming scene out of the window.

    Why not learn from mistakes which damaged your product? Anet answer was to expand stealth to other classes which increased more damage to the game even more. Decreasing the population even more resulting in Gw2 profits and reputation in the gaming industry declining even more.

    So...No!

    As long Anet embraces toxic design, stealth will remain in their toxic state

    (Gw2 competitors strives to embraces healthy competitive design including stealth in their game)

    Toxicity Reward-Only Design belong in Gw2, Leave healthy fair competitive risk+reward design to Gw2 competitor's.

    Thanks

    Oh the irony coming it from rev that was literary designed (and made OP) to sell HoT xpac. What is truly more toxic, huh?

    You are correct but you miss one important thing; Rev was a complete diversion from what was happening in the back ground scene. Many including myself knew Anet true attention when the created Rev. Let me ask you a question; do you think Anet would be stupid to allow a new class to replace their two favorite classes?

    Absolutely not!!

    Mesmer and Thief are Anet Golden Child Classes. No classes will ever be allowed to supersede them, Not Now, Nor Ever!!

    -here is a tip: whenever you witness other classes (elementalist/weaver, warrior/spellbreaker) seem to be the hero of the classes: expect painful nerfs heading their way.

    As for The Rulers Of All Meta: Mesmer/Thief....expect a quick return of buffs in the next balance patch

    It's all a game; a diversion, an illusion
    The game is the true origin of Toxicity
    in the name of Favoritism

    Step#1- Next balance patch: Mesmer+Thief>Buffed, all other classes>Nerfs
    Step#2- Next class patch: Mesmer+Thief>slap on the wrist nerfs

    Repeat step 1 and 2 over and over again-

    -Never take Thief and Mesmer nefrs seriously at heart

    WAKE UP!!

    Mesmer and Thief Are The Meta

    Mesmer And Thief Are GW2

  • Westenev.5289Westenev.5289 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Morwath.9817 said:

    @OriOri.8724 said:

    I don't understand how this proposal buffs stealth, I really don't. Where else would you buff stealth if you nerf the stealth part of it?

    @Morwath.9817 said:
    Quaggan thinks they should be "visible" while they are close, yet stealth could apply defensive buffs to compensate, which could linger for a while after leaving stealth.

    @Morwath.9817 said:
    and if as compensation it would apply additional damage mitigation to you and affected allies (e.g. protection, cleanse conditions per tick and/or regenerate more HP) it would be even better.

    Depending on skill granting Stealth, Quaggan would give it side effect - it could be cleanse, protection, swiftness/superspeed maybe even short blurry (1s?) while entering it, maybe cleanse, healing per tick during, and protection, fury, might while leaving. Same goes for Shadow Arts in case of Thief.

    If this was the case, might I suggest renaming "stealth" into "identity cloak". Instead of going all see-through, you would instead remove your nametag and associated titles. That blasted thing is the whole reason why you can't hide behind objects anyway.

    Regardless, what you suggest isn't stealth imho - and I can't say I'd be all that fond of using it.

  • I think it is you with the L2P issue if you think a mesmer can use a GS auto on a stealthed opponent. I mean sure if you start the attack before the stealth it keeps going for the whole channel but are we really at a point of complaining at the pitiful damage it does compared to denying the use of 3 of the weapon skills on the GS?

    Whether it’s stealth camping mesmer, thief, scrapper, druid or some other future elite spec, he still has a point where entire weapon sets are shut down by stealth because you do not have a target and no scoping into thin air is just hilarious.

    Tell me why every mesmer using GS land more than 1 GS autos when I stealth and move to a less predictable location. There is absolutly zero weapon set completely shut down by something that doesnt provide defense unless specced into it. You are telling me that you mindlessly spam when some1 stealth in front of you? If thats the case, you outplay yourself alone. Stealth only provide a very short tactical repositioning window. Backstab is easy to avoid. Any defense or a random or timed dodge will do. even kiting can work if steal and shadow step are on CDs. Even if Shadow step isnt on CD, the thief will most likely not use it because its a condi cleanse and often the only stun breaker. It is possible to stack stealth but it require ressources like more initiative therefor almost zero,if not zero offensive capabilities if steal/backstab miss. You can use shadow refuge but its a slow stealth stacking abilities telling you where to spam auto (pretty much like black powder). You can use blinding powder inside black powder + heartseeker but its even more ressources. Thief will be ressource starved so if Steal or backstab miss, there is nothing to work with anymore for the thief.

    You can also cry about deadeye but we all know how terrible deadeye is. Its a predictable one trick poney. Deadeye is decent if he attack a target already out of CDs...pretty much like anything else anyways.

    Also, keep in mind if you spam autos, you will deal more damage to the stealthed target than the stealthed player does to you. Following the broken logic of OP and you, you can get shut down by some1 dealing abolutly nothing to you while you can still deal damage. If stealth is an issue for you, it can only be a l2p issue. May aswell cry about abilities with dodge frames or even shocking aura. Shocking aura is so dangerous for noobs right? It should be made useless just like what OP want stealth to be but he just look hypocritical about it and try to cover it with ''nerf it but give it some other utilities'' non sense. Being invisible is already the utility of the feature.

  • Alatar.7364Alatar.7364 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Burnfall.9573 said:

    @Cynz.9437 said:
    If they were to change stealth, they would have to change a lot of spells. Which is a lot of work. A LOT. For what exactly? So few noob players and players without map awareness can have more advantage? I mean honestly? Don't we already have enough builds every season which carry inexperienced players to rating where they don't belong? You really want to help them? I would prefer Anet to invest their resources into making pvp better (MM, rank/gain loss system, templates, class balance split between pve and pvp etc.).

    I never saw any decent player complaining about stealth in this game. It is probably most dynamic and more thought through implementation of stealth across all games i have played before (and i played quite few of them).

    @Burnfall.9573 said:
    I'm all for Anet to completely remove stealth all together from all the classes. It's a toxic bad design which should never exist in the Gw2. Heck, it did even exist in Gw1 and made Gw1 a healthy competitive environment.

    Ever since stealth was introduced in Gw2: it had pushed out the population out of the game and wrecked all the fun and the competitive gaming scene out of the window.

    Why not learn from mistakes which damaged your product? Anet answer was to expand stealth to other classes which increased more damage to the game even more. Decreasing the population even more resulting in Gw2 profits and reputation in the gaming industry declining even more.

    So...No!

    As long Anet embraces toxic design, stealth will remain in their toxic state

    (Gw2 competitors strives to embraces healthy competitive design including stealth in their game)

    Toxicity Reward-Only Design belong in Gw2, Leave healthy fair competitive risk+reward design to Gw2 competitor's.

    Thanks

    Oh the irony coming it from rev that was literary designed (and made OP) to sell HoT xpac. What is truly more toxic, huh?

    "..." and Thief are Anet Golden Child Classes.

    Did I just read that right?

    ~ I Aear cân ven na mar

  • Cynz.9437Cynz.9437 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 4, 2017

    @Burnfall.9573 said:

    @Cynz.9437 said:
    If they were to change stealth, they would have to change a lot of spells. Which is a lot of work. A LOT. For what exactly? So few noob players and players without map awareness can have more advantage? I mean honestly? Don't we already have enough builds every season which carry inexperienced players to rating where they don't belong? You really want to help them? I would prefer Anet to invest their resources into making pvp better (MM, rank/gain loss system, templates, class balance split between pve and pvp etc.).

    I never saw any decent player complaining about stealth in this game. It is probably most dynamic and more thought through implementation of stealth across all games i have played before (and i played quite few of them).

    @Burnfall.9573 said:
    I'm all for Anet to completely remove stealth all together from all the classes. It's a toxic bad design which should never exist in the Gw2. Heck, it did even exist in Gw1 and made Gw1 a healthy competitive environment.

    Ever since stealth was introduced in Gw2: it had pushed out the population out of the game and wrecked all the fun and the competitive gaming scene out of the window.

    Why not learn from mistakes which damaged your product? Anet answer was to expand stealth to other classes which increased more damage to the game even more. Decreasing the population even more resulting in Gw2 profits and reputation in the gaming industry declining even more.

    So...No!

    As long Anet embraces toxic design, stealth will remain in their toxic state

    (Gw2 competitors strives to embraces healthy competitive design including stealth in their game)

    Toxicity Reward-Only Design belong in Gw2, Leave healthy fair competitive risk+reward design to Gw2 competitor's.

    Thanks

    Oh the irony coming it from rev that was literary designed (and made OP) to sell HoT xpac. What is truly more toxic, huh?

    You are correct but you miss one important thing; Rev was a complete diversion from what was happening in the back ground scene. Many including myself knew Anet true attention when the created Rev. Let me ask you a question; do you think Anet would be stupid to allow a new class to replace their two favorite classes?

    Absolutely not!!

    Mesmer and Thief are Anet Golden Child Classes. No classes will ever be allowed to supersede them, Not Now, Nor Ever!!

    -here is a tip: whenever you witness other classes (elementalist/weaver, warrior/spellbreaker) seem to be the hero of the classes: expect painful nerfs heading their way.

    As for The Rulers Of All Meta: Mesmer/Thief....expect a quick return of buffs in the next balance patch

    It's all a game; a diversion, an illusion
    The game is the true origin of Toxicity
    in the name of Favoritism

    Step#1- Next balance patch: Mesmer+Thief>Buffed, all other classes>Nerfs
    Step#2- Next class patch: Mesmer+Thief>slap on the wrist nerfs

    Repeat step 1 and 2 over and over again-

    -Never take Thief and Mesmer nefrs seriously at heart

    WAKE UP!!

    Mesmer and Thief Are The Meta

    Mesmer And Thief Are GW2

    Thief is meta because they are balanced around being +1/decap pet, outside of pure bunker meta (see s1) there will be always need for roamer. They are not allowed to do anything else if you didn't figure it out yet. Did Anet give them tools for it? Yeah, they did. But they also depraved thief of everything else that could potentially allow them to fill other role. For years, all thief could do is to decap/leech kills. In wvw zergs kick them because thieves are "waste of spot". In pve most groups don't want them because thieves bring nothing to the group. Golden child really? Golden child would be guards that were always viable and wanted in every single part of this game.
    Also, you should really to try to play mes. They had bugs/issues that never got addressed for years. Yes, mirage is strong atm but it is like with rev: sell xpac then nerf.

    @Lighter.5631 said:

    @Cynz.9437 said:

    @messiah.1908 said:
    what if stealth was used only as a defense mode.

    only when you in combat mode you can get stealth . so no offense approach when starting a fight.
    and maybe when you get stealth you shadow step away from your target - defense mode

    They would have to rework stealth attacks then. Once again, do you really think they would invest so much money to pleasure players that have 0 awareness?

    how can gain awareness to a stealthed target lol...

    Play thief. Seriously, try it. Most stealth attacks from thief are extremely predictable, just like mes ganks. It is not backstabs that kill you, it is AA actually.
    As far as map awareness goes, look at map. Anet added feature where you can see enemies on the map, if you see thief leaving mid fight for example toward your home point, you can bet your gold on it, that thief will be decapping your home soon. This is where, once again, you should try to play thief since part of your job would be tracking enemy thief - you will see how easy it actually is to predict their movement.
    If i wasn't too lazy i would link you videos from old tourneys, where thieves were completely shut down by the teams because they actually watched the map and communicated thief movement (while not having thief on their team).

    GW is P2Win. We are always lied to.

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 4, 2017

    @Philelectric.3769 said:

    I think it is you with the L2P issue if you think a mesmer can use a GS auto on a stealthed opponent. I mean sure if you start the attack before the stealth it keeps going for the whole channel but are we really at a point of complaining at the pitiful damage it does compared to denying the use of 3 of the weapon skills on the GS?

    Whether it’s stealth camping mesmer, thief, scrapper, druid or some other future elite spec, he still has a point where entire weapon sets are shut down by stealth because you do not have a target and no scoping into thin air is just hilarious.

    Tell me why every mesmer using GS land more than 1 GS autos when I stealth and move to a less predictable location. There is absolutly zero weapon set completely shut down by something that doesnt provide defense unless specced into it. You are telling me that you mindlessly spam when some1 stealth in front of you? If thats the case, you outplay yourself alone. Stealth only provide a very short tactical repositioning window. Backstab is easy to avoid. Any defense or a random or timed dodge will do. even kiting can work if steal and shadow step are on CDs. Even if Shadow step isnt on CD, the thief will most likely not use it because its a condi cleanse and often the only stun breaker. It is possible to stack stealth but it require ressources like more initiative therefor almost zero,if not zero offensive capabilities if steal/backstab miss. You can use shadow refuge but its a slow stealth stacking abilities telling you where to spam auto (pretty much like black powder). You can use blinding powder inside black powder + heartseeker but its even more ressources. Thief will be ressource starved so if Steal or backstab miss, there is nothing to work with anymore for the thief.

    You can also cry about deadeye but we all know how terrible deadeye is. Its a predictable one trick poney. Deadeye is decent if he attack a target already out of CDs...pretty much like anything else anyways.

    Also, keep in mind if you spam autos, you will deal more damage to the stealthed target than the stealthed player does to you. Following the broken logic of OP and you, you can get shut down by some1 dealing abolutly nothing to you while you can still deal damage. If stealth is an issue for you, it can only be a l2p issue. May aswell cry about abilities with dodge frames or even shocking aura. Shocking aura is so dangerous for noobs right? It should be made useless just like what OP want stealth to be but he just look hypocritical about it and try to cover it with ''nerf it but give it some other utilities'' non sense. Being invisible is already the utility of the feature.

    Firstly, no-one brought up deadeye so I don’t know why you are.

    Secondly you do realise SA allows thieves to stay in stealth indefinitely right? I mean even without the CD reduction on deception skills you can stay in stealth easily for 20s+ without being “resource starved”. Up to a minute last I checked if you really commit to being a stealth camper and I think bounding dodge thief likewise can sit in stealth for prolonged periods of 20s or over without sweating too much.

    Finally you will only be hit by 1 GS auto from a mes and only if they started it before you went into stealth. Please take your head out of wherever its stuffed, make a level 1 mesmer with a GS and ask a friend (if you have any) to stand nearby in stealth. You cannot hit them, you cannot target them, the ball is entirely in their court as to how the fight proceeds from that point. Them make a ranger, use longbow and see how many attacks you can land on them while they’re stealthed, next up would be sceptre ele. Bonus points if you bothered to test all the other weapons on a class before deleting.

  • Burnfall.9573Burnfall.9573 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 4, 2017

    @Alatar.7364 said:

    @Burnfall.9573 said:

    @Cynz.9437 said:
    If they were to change stealth, they would have to change a lot of spells. Which is a lot of work. A LOT. For what exactly? So few noob players and players without map awareness can have more advantage? I mean honestly? Don't we already have enough builds every season which carry inexperienced players to rating where they don't belong? You really want to help them? I would prefer Anet to invest their resources into making pvp better (MM, rank/gain loss system, templates, class balance split between pve and pvp etc.).

    I never saw any decent player complaining about stealth in this game. It is probably most dynamic and more thought through implementation of stealth across all games i have played before (and i played quite few of them).

    @Burnfall.9573 said:
    I'm all for Anet to completely remove stealth all together from all the classes. It's a toxic bad design which should never exist in the Gw2. Heck, it did even exist in Gw1 and made Gw1 a healthy competitive environment.

    Ever since stealth was introduced in Gw2: it had pushed out the population out of the game and wrecked all the fun and the competitive gaming scene out of the window.

    Why not learn from mistakes which damaged your product? Anet answer was to expand stealth to other classes which increased more damage to the game even more. Decreasing the population even more resulting in Gw2 profits and reputation in the gaming industry declining even more.

    So...No!

    As long Anet embraces toxic design, stealth will remain in their toxic state

    (Gw2 competitors strives to embraces healthy competitive design including stealth in their game)

    Toxicity Reward-Only Design belong in Gw2, Leave healthy fair competitive risk+reward design to Gw2 competitor's.

    Thanks

    Oh the irony coming it from rev that was literary designed (and made OP) to sell HoT xpac. What is truly more toxic, huh?

    "..." and Thief are Anet Golden Child Classes.

    Did I just read that right?

    Yes, you did read that right.

    A dev confirmed this that thief is Anet favorite class than posted that mesmer is Anet 2nd favorite class

    (Memser/Thief) are likely designed at the same time.

    Look up this interesting article in internet browser : Ten Ton Hammer | Guild Wars 2: Are Thieves And Mesmer's The Cause Of The Meta

    'As an individual who plays both a Mesmer and a Thief, I’m well aware of each classes limitations. I’m also well aware of the sheer frustration at being hounded for an entire match by a class that has near permanent evasion, unparalleled mobility and almost free access to stealth. At times, it’s physically impossible to avoid the burst of a Thief because they’re relentless in their ability to pursue and deal damage to you. I’ve always believed that it’s inherently unfair that any class can stealth when there are no or few skills to physically break those using it, out of it. To then provide a class with stealth the ability to deal massive burst damage is a recipe for frustration and unsurprisingly, players sought to find a solution. I appreciate that the Mesmer is capable of stealthing and dealing enormous damage from it, but the key difference is that for the majority of the time, the Mesmer is fully visible. Its highest burst doesn’t come from stealth and its current stealths have lengthy cooldowns and short durations'

  • Cynz.9437Cynz.9437 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 4, 2017

    @Burnfall.9573 said:

    @Alatar.7364 said:

    @Burnfall.9573 said:

    @Cynz.9437 said:
    If they were to change stealth, they would have to change a lot of spells. Which is a lot of work. A LOT. For what exactly? So few noob players and players without map awareness can have more advantage? I mean honestly? Don't we already have enough builds every season which carry inexperienced players to rating where they don't belong? You really want to help them? I would prefer Anet to invest their resources into making pvp better (MM, rank/gain loss system, templates, class balance split between pve and pvp etc.).

    I never saw any decent player complaining about stealth in this game. It is probably most dynamic and more thought through implementation of stealth across all games i have played before (and i played quite few of them).

    @Burnfall.9573 said:
    I'm all for Anet to completely remove stealth all together from all the classes. It's a toxic bad design which should never exist in the Gw2. Heck, it did even exist in Gw1 and made Gw1 a healthy competitive environment.

    Ever since stealth was introduced in Gw2: it had pushed out the population out of the game and wrecked all the fun and the competitive gaming scene out of the window.

    Why not learn from mistakes which damaged your product? Anet answer was to expand stealth to other classes which increased more damage to the game even more. Decreasing the population even more resulting in Gw2 profits and reputation in the gaming industry declining even more.

    So...No!

    As long Anet embraces toxic design, stealth will remain in their toxic state

    (Gw2 competitors strives to embraces healthy competitive design including stealth in their game)

    Toxicity Reward-Only Design belong in Gw2, Leave healthy fair competitive risk+reward design to Gw2 competitor's.

    Thanks

    Oh the irony coming it from rev that was literary designed (and made OP) to sell HoT xpac. What is truly more toxic, huh?

    "..." and Thief are Anet Golden Child Classes.

    Did I just read that right?

    Yes, you did read that right.

    A dev confirmed this that thief is Anet favorite class than posted that mesmer is Anet 2nd favorite class

    (Memser/Thief) are likely designed at the same time.

    Where?
    Also, than <> then. Also, Anet's. Not trying to bash on you but it is really hard to understand you and some things you post don't make any sense due to grammar errors or use of wrong words.

    GW is P2Win. We are always lied to.

  • Burnfall.9573Burnfall.9573 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 4, 2017

    @Cynz.9437 said:

    @Burnfall.9573 said:

    @Alatar.7364 said:

    @Burnfall.9573 said:

    @Cynz.9437 said:
    If they were to change stealth, they would have to change a lot of spells. Which is a lot of work. A LOT. For what exactly? So few noob players and players without map awareness can have more advantage? I mean honestly? Don't we already have enough builds every season which carry inexperienced players to rating where they don't belong? You really want to help them? I would prefer Anet to invest their resources into making pvp better (MM, rank/gain loss system, templates, class balance split between pve and pvp etc.).

    I never saw any decent player complaining about stealth in this game. It is probably most dynamic and more thought through implementation of stealth across all games i have played before (and i played quite few of them).

    @Burnfall.9573 said:
    I'm all for Anet to completely remove stealth all together from all the classes. It's a toxic bad design which should never exist in the Gw2. Heck, it did even exist in Gw1 and made Gw1 a healthy competitive environment.

    Ever since stealth was introduced in Gw2: it had pushed out the population out of the game and wrecked all the fun and the competitive gaming scene out of the window.

    Why not learn from mistakes which damaged your product? Anet answer was to expand stealth to other classes which increased more damage to the game even more. Decreasing the population even more resulting in Gw2 profits and reputation in the gaming industry declining even more.

    So...No!

    As long Anet embraces toxic design, stealth will remain in their toxic state

    (Gw2 competitors strives to embraces healthy competitive design including stealth in their game)

    Toxicity Reward-Only Design belong in Gw2, Leave healthy fair competitive risk+reward design to Gw2 competitor's.

    Thanks

    Oh the irony coming it from rev that was literary designed (and made OP) to sell HoT xpac. What is truly more toxic, huh?

    "..." and Thief are Anet Golden Child Classes.

    Did I just read that right?

    Yes, you did read that right.

    A dev confirmed this that thief is Anet favorite class than posted that mesmer is Anet 2nd favorite class

    (Memser/Thief) are likely designed at the same time.

    Where?
    Also, than <> then. Also, Anet's. Not trying to bash on you but it is really hard to understand you and some things you post don't make any sense due to grammar errors or use of wrong words.

    I am not allowed to shame Anet employee/s or to provide shameful evidence against them

    (those whose been here long enough, know)

  • Cynz.9437Cynz.9437 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Burnfall.9573 said:

    @Cynz.9437 said:

    @Burnfall.9573 said:

    @Alatar.7364 said:

    @Burnfall.9573 said:

    @Cynz.9437 said:
    If they were to change stealth, they would have to change a lot of spells. Which is a lot of work. A LOT. For what exactly? So few noob players and players without map awareness can have more advantage? I mean honestly? Don't we already have enough builds every season which carry inexperienced players to rating where they don't belong? You really want to help them? I would prefer Anet to invest their resources into making pvp better (MM, rank/gain loss system, templates, class balance split between pve and pvp etc.).

    I never saw any decent player complaining about stealth in this game. It is probably most dynamic and more thought through implementation of stealth across all games i have played before (and i played quite few of them).

    @Burnfall.9573 said:
    I'm all for Anet to completely remove stealth all together from all the classes. It's a toxic bad design which should never exist in the Gw2. Heck, it did even exist in Gw1 and made Gw1 a healthy competitive environment.

    Ever since stealth was introduced in Gw2: it had pushed out the population out of the game and wrecked all the fun and the competitive gaming scene out of the window.

    Why not learn from mistakes which damaged your product? Anet answer was to expand stealth to other classes which increased more damage to the game even more. Decreasing the population even more resulting in Gw2 profits and reputation in the gaming industry declining even more.

    So...No!

    As long Anet embraces toxic design, stealth will remain in their toxic state

    (Gw2 competitors strives to embraces healthy competitive design including stealth in their game)

    Toxicity Reward-Only Design belong in Gw2, Leave healthy fair competitive risk+reward design to Gw2 competitor's.

    Thanks

    Oh the irony coming it from rev that was literary designed (and made OP) to sell HoT xpac. What is truly more toxic, huh?

    "..." and Thief are Anet Golden Child Classes.

    Did I just read that right?

    Yes, you did read that right.

    A dev confirmed this that thief is Anet favorite class than posted that mesmer is Anet 2nd favorite class

    (Memser/Thief) are likely designed at the same time.

    Where?
    Also, than <> then. Also, Anet's. Not trying to bash on you but it is really hard to understand you and some things you post don't make any sense due to grammar errors or use of wrong words.

    I am not allowed to shame Anet employee/s or to provide shameful evidence against them

    (those whose been here long enough, know)

    Pretty sure linking official/reddit posts /twitch videos is allowed.

    GW is P2Win. We are always lied to.

  • Morwath.9817Morwath.9817 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Ooo, and Quaggan is pretty sure, you went offtopic boyz.

  • Cynz.9437Cynz.9437 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 4, 2017

    @Morwath.9817 said:
    Ooo, and Quaggan is pretty sure, you went offtopic boyz.

    How dare you to assume my gender!!!? I identify myself as sneaky salad. At least in game :P

    On more serious note, i have yet to see one good argument why Anet should invest so many resources into changing stealth mechanic and adjusting all the stealth related spells/traits because of it.

    GW is P2Win. We are always lied to.

  • Morwath.9817Morwath.9817 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Cynz.9437 said:

    @Morwath.9817 said:
    Ooo, and Quaggan is pretty sure, you went offtopic boyz.

    How dare you to assume my gender!!!? I identify myself as sneaky salad. At least in game :P

    On more serious note, i have yet to see one good argument why Anet should invest so many resources into changing stealth mechanic and adjusting all the stealth related spells/traits because of it.

    Quaggan doesn't assume anything, Quaggan was talking with fishies and they told Quaggan.
    If you're looking for a good reason, then making stuff more fun, enjoyable and less frustrating for new or inexperienced players should be enough reason to rework it.

  • Alatar.7364Alatar.7364 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 4, 2017

    @Morwath.9817 said:

    @Cynz.9437 said:

    @Morwath.9817 said:
    Ooo, and Quaggan is pretty sure, you went offtopic boyz.

    How dare you to assume my gender!!!? I identify myself as sneaky salad. At least in game :P

    On more serious note, i have yet to see one good argument why Anet should invest so many resources into changing stealth mechanic and adjusting all the stealth related spells/traits because of it.

    Quaggan doesn't assume anything, Quaggan was talking with fishies and they told Quaggan.
    If you're looking for a good reason, then making stuff more fun, enjoyable and less frustrating for new or inexperienced players should be enough reason to rework it.

    On addition to my post; Stealth, and Stealthed Players, never ever bothered me even when I was new to PvP and the game. So I have a reason to believe that this might be too much of a subjective matter to be sure it will help anyone.

    ~ I Aear cân ven na mar

  • Rezzet.3614Rezzet.3614 Member ✭✭✭

    I support stealth having a visible queue either based on vicinity or like heroes of the storm , it still will be a powerful mechanic cuz the stealthed player wont be targeted by skills

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