What is a thief's role in sPvP? — Guild Wars 2 Forums

What is a thief's role in sPvP?

Poelala.2830Poelala.2830 Member ✭✭✭

I have very little experience with thief, and it is probably my least played class. Also, I am making this post not to say thief isn't viable, but to state how I think it is weak in the meta and I want to be told why I am wrong. With that said, I have a few things to say with thief. Thief isn't substantially weaker after the endurance nerf (which made absolutely no sense to me), but they are weaker due to PoF in general. Along with revenant and ele (can be debated but I see no meta role with weaver...), thief received a useless PoF elite spec. This means that their class is balanced to fit into HoT as far as I know. The meta that came along with PoF introduced everything that ailed thief in HoT. HoT for thief was great because the only thing they couldn't do was +1 druids and scrappers. Now, they can't +1 druid, scrapper, spellbreaker, firebrand, scourge (if the scourge is offensive), or mirage (due to stunbreak dodge and stealth with lots of blinks and gap openers, as well as insane condition pressure). They cannot rush far anymore due to the lack of moa from mirages using jaunt, they can't go home due to wasted potential and they cannot team fight at mid due to the spam. Thief is a bad option in comps due to PoF specs having high mobility and high sustain. In the most recent Jebro UGO tourney in the finals, the team with the thief lost even though the players were roughly similar in skill, and they lost hard. One of the commentators even commented on how the thief had no real role in the game at one point. Even in ranked, you see thief a lot less and classes that don't even mimic the role filling the spot due to the shifted meta.

Comments

  • Dahkeus.8243Dahkeus.8243 Member ✭✭✭

    The role will depend on the build. However, the best thief builds are roamers (S/D or D/P). The role is generally this:

    If the far point is open, you use your superior mobility to get there quickly and decap (almost never fully cap), then go somewhere else and help out.*

    If far point is not open, you'll want to look for a small fight (1 v 1 or 2 v 2) and jump on a lower health enemy for a quick burst (this is called a +1). As soon as the enemy is downed or the outcome of the fight is decided (enemy will definitely lose if you leave or your ally is screwed and sticking around does no good), then you will leave and rotate somewhere else.

    For large fights, a S/D thief can dip in for a good bit of help, but a D/P will often do better by sticking to the outside and interrupting enemies at critical moments. Most of the time, you'll want to leave a big fight as soon as there's a good rotation opportunity (a +1 or decap).

    Generally, you want to avoid most 1 v 1s, since 1 v 1s are slow and the longer you're stuck in a fight, the more likely an enemy will +1 that fight and wipe your squishy kitten.

    Basically, use your mobility to decap empty fights and make fair fights unfair. You should be finishing fights, not starting them.

    • The only times to really ever fully cap far are when 1) you're winning by such a large margin and will hold home/mid, 2) the enemy team is so bad at rotations that they'll likely let far stay capped for a while before going back to it, 3) your team is completely wiped at home/mid and there's nowhere else to go. In the first 2 cases, you're likely going to win no matter what anyways and in the third case, you're likely going to lose anyways.
  • Chaith.8256Chaith.8256 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Hell you mean you can't +1 proceeds to name all professions.

    Thief can easily show up and while not guaranteeing a kill can definitely guarantee that enemy is forced to retreat, and his team full caps.

    Btw, a Scourge alone on side points is Thief candy, however that movement from a scourge - virtually never going to happen.

    twitch.tv/chaithh
    Forum Lord Chaith

  • Your role is to rek nerds ofc

    GW1 rolling in its grave lol

  • Volrath.1473Volrath.1473 Member ✭✭✭

    Your roll is to reroll scourge xD

  • Vitali.5039Vitali.5039 Member ✭✭✭

    Daredevil: decap/cap, +1 and mechanics
    Deadeye: to snipe Scourges and +1. Even decap if the team lack Spellbreaker.

  • Cynz.9437Cynz.9437 Member ✭✭✭✭

    To gank inexperienced but honorable players so they can make posts on forums asking to delete thief, duhh.

    GW is P2Win. We are always lied to.

  • Cobrakon.3108Cobrakon.3108 Member ✭✭✭

    A thief is a skilled assassin that can win any meta build 1v1 with the other person being of equal skill. If the enemy is not paying attention he can sneak up and back stab for great damage. Its basically risk vs reward and ..... oh I forgot what game forum I was in.. I was thinking about nearly EVERY ROGUE THIEF ASSASSIN CLASS EXCEPT FOR GUILD WARS 2

    Thief is a mobile escape artist decap and +1

  • Morwath.9817Morwath.9817 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 4, 2017

    @Cobrakon.3108 said:
    A thief is a skilled assassin that can win any meta build 1v1 with the other person being of equal skill. If the enemy is not paying attention he can sneak up and back stab for great damage. Its basically risk vs reward and ..... oh I forgot what game forum I was in.. I was thinking about nearly EVERY ROGUE THIEF ASSASSIN CLASS EXCEPT FOR GUILD WARS 2

    Thief is a mobile escape artist decap and +1

    Are you trying to say, Backstab can't crit for 14k? Quaggan is surprised.

  • Cynz.9437Cynz.9437 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 4, 2017

    @Morwath.9817 said:

    @Cobrakon.3108 said:
    A thief is a skilled assassin that can win any meta build 1v1 with the other person being of equal skill. If the enemy is not paying attention he can sneak up and back stab for great damage. Its basically risk vs reward and ..... oh I forgot what game forum I was in.. I was thinking about nearly EVERY ROGUE THIEF ASSASSIN CLASS EXCEPT FOR GUILD WARS 2

    Thief is a mobile escape artist decap and +1

    Are you trying to say, Backstab can't crit for 14k?

    When all stars align (aka vulnerability/might from teammates) + thief runs kamikaze build - yes bs can crit 14k.

    GW is P2Win. We are always lied to.

  • Morwath.9817Morwath.9817 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Cynz.9437 said:

    @Morwath.9817 said:

    @Cobrakon.3108 said:
    A thief is a skilled assassin that can win any meta build 1v1 with the other person being of equal skill. If the enemy is not paying attention he can sneak up and back stab for great damage. Its basically risk vs reward and ..... oh I forgot what game forum I was in.. I was thinking about nearly EVERY ROGUE THIEF ASSASSIN CLASS EXCEPT FOR GUILD WARS 2

    Thief is a mobile escape artist decap and +1

    Are you trying to say, Backstab can't crit for 14k?

    When all stars align (aka weakness/might from teammates) + thief runs kamikaze build - yes bs can crit 14k.

    Quaggan doubts Thief with weakness can crit for 14k.

  • Burnfall.9573Burnfall.9573 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 4, 2017

    'One of the commentators even commented on how the thief had no real role in the game at one point. Even in ranked, you see thief a lot less and classes that don't even mimic the role filling the spot due to the shifted meta'

    Not at one point, still evident t'll this day

    You be the judge-

    'Thieves are expert in the shadow arts. They utilize stealth and shadow stepping to surprise and to get close to their target. They're deadly in one-on-one combat using their agility, acrobatic fighting style, and the ability to steal to overcome their enemies. They have an affinity for setting traps and using venom. As an adventurer profession, thieves wear medium armor'

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Thief

    Ask yourself, is this the thief we are dealing with today?

  • Cynz.9437Cynz.9437 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Morwath.9817 said:

    @Cynz.9437 said:

    @Morwath.9817 said:

    @Cobrakon.3108 said:
    A thief is a skilled assassin that can win any meta build 1v1 with the other person being of equal skill. If the enemy is not paying attention he can sneak up and back stab for great damage. Its basically risk vs reward and ..... oh I forgot what game forum I was in.. I was thinking about nearly EVERY ROGUE THIEF ASSASSIN CLASS EXCEPT FOR GUILD WARS 2

    Thief is a mobile escape artist decap and +1

    Are you trying to say, Backstab can't crit for 14k?

    When all stars align (aka weakness/might from teammates) + thief runs kamikaze build - yes bs can crit 14k.

    Quaggan doubts Thief with weakness can crit for 14k.

    eeek, meant vulnerability.

    GW is P2Win. We are always lied to.

  • Vitali.5039Vitali.5039 Member ✭✭✭

    @Burnfall.9573 said:
    'One of the commentators even commented on how the thief had no real role in the game at one point. Even in ranked, you see thief a lot less and classes that don't even mimic the role filling the spot due to the shifted meta'

    Tower defense meta: kill spellbreaker at close and help your at far, kill scourge and firebrand at mid and replace them with yours.

  • Crius.5487Crius.5487 Member ✭✭✭

    @Morwath.9817 said:
    Thief role is to abuse his insane mobility, decap enemies and +1 fights in most cases, so his team can snowball and wooo-hooo.
    Quaggan would suggest to watch some Sindrener or any other good Thief.

    This about sums it up

  • Vallun.2071Vallun.2071 Member ✭✭✭

    the whole mechanic of steal is designed to kitten one guy over. use it to secure kills on low targets. Can only do this if your team is in a position to pressure people. Go to the right places where kills are possible or create those situations by threatening to decap then outnumbering.

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I thought a thief’s role was to kitten talk on the forums about how they are the weakest most nerfed class since day 1.

    Nah too easy but thought I’d throw it on the pile for chuckles anyway.

  • eksn.7264eksn.7264 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 4, 2017

    @Chaith.8256 said:
    Btw, a Scourge alone on side points is Thief candy, however that movement from a scourge - virtually never going to happen.

    I very often have a necro on my team who just roams or sits home in plat 2/3... I don't know why getting scourges and firebrands to sit next to each other is so kitten hard in soloq.

    In this situation as a thief, you don't even need to go kill the necro either. Just let him be useless, snowball a teamfight or get a decap and snowball the necro after to stagger respawns. If you're team has necro advantage mid, chances are they will win mid so I'd probably poke their necro then. I haven't played any D/P thief this patch but a ton of S/D marauder and it works really well. Double steal + double Skull Fear is brutal. You never have to be next to them long enough for them to apply enough pressure on you because of Infil strike.

  • Chaith.8256Chaith.8256 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @eksn.7264 said:

    @Chaith.8256 said:
    Btw, a Scourge alone on side points is Thief candy, however that movement from a scourge - virtually never going to happen.

    I very often have a necro on my team who just roams or sits home in plat 2/3...

    With multiple Scourges or no Firebrand it can happen.. If not, I still wouldn't really be surprised if someone in plat didn't know where to go

    twitch.tv/chaithh
    Forum Lord Chaith

  • Lighter.5631Lighter.5631 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 5, 2017

    ...? why can't you +1 a warrior..just wait for full counter and you can one combo half his HP away.....

  • Dahkeus.8243Dahkeus.8243 Member ✭✭✭

    @eksn.7264 said:

    @Chaith.8256 said:
    Btw, a Scourge alone on side points is Thief candy, however that movement from a scourge - virtually never going to happen.

    I very often have a necro on my team who just roams or sits home in plat 2/3... I don't know why getting scourges and firebrands to sit next to each other is so kitten hard in soloq.

    In this situation as a thief, you don't even need to go kill the necro either. Just let him be useless, snowball a teamfight or get a decap and snowball the necro after to stagger respawns. If you're team has necro advantage mid, chances are they will win mid so I'd probably poke their necro then. I haven't played any D/P thief this patch but a ton of S/D marauder and it works really well. Double steal + double Skull Fear is brutal. You never have to be next to them long enough for them to apply enough pressure on you because of Infil strike.

    The worst part of playing FB is that players tend to win a fight with your support, then get cocky and run all over the map, thinking they are invoncible.

    ...and the corpses of allies litter the roads off point.

    I got tired of herding cats, so I don’t queue as my FB much anymore.

  • @Burnfall.9573 said:
    'Thieves are expert in the shadow arts. They utilize stealth and shadow stepping to surprise and to get close to their target. They're deadly in one-on-one combat using their agility, acrobatic fighting style, and the ability to steal to overcome their enemies. They have an affinity for setting traps and using venom. As an adventurer profession, thieves wear medium armor'

    Ask yourself, is this the thief we are dealing with today?

    I mean, it's true. We do wear medium armor.

  • sephiroth.4217sephiroth.4217 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dahkeus.8243 said:

    @eksn.7264 said:

    @Chaith.8256 said:
    Btw, a Scourge alone on side points is Thief candy, however that movement from a scourge - virtually never going to happen.

    I very often have a necro on my team who just roams or sits home in plat 2/3... I don't know why getting scourges and firebrands to sit next to each other is so kitten hard in soloq.

    In this situation as a thief, you don't even need to go kill the necro either. Just let him be useless, snowball a teamfight or get a decap and snowball the necro after to stagger respawns. If you're team has necro advantage mid, chances are they will win mid so I'd probably poke their necro then. I haven't played any D/P thief this patch but a ton of S/D marauder and it works really well. Double steal + double Skull Fear is brutal. You never have to be next to them long enough for them to apply enough pressure on you because of Infil strike.

    The worst part of playing FB is that players tend to win a fight with your support, then get cocky and run all over the map, thinking they are invoncible.

    ...and the corpses of allies litter the roads off point.

    I got tired of herding cats, so I don’t queue as my FB much anymore.

    Its like that playing any form of support...

    I went a Magi staff Tempest, won all team fights but spent all game following our scourge to mid, to far, to home, back to far as he followed one of our thieves around.... other allies was 2 thief and a mes.

    Not to brag, but I put together a puzzle in 4 days and the box said 2-4 years.
    Please allow team queue with rewards again at our own discretion

  • Kokoro.8437Kokoro.8437 Member ✭✭
    edited December 5, 2017

    The problem with thief currently is that although it has mobility, it just isn't fast enough.

    The power creep of mobility from other classes has caught up to that of the daredevil, while the combat ability of the daredevil has just gone down.

    D/P Thief straight up needs buffs.

    There isn't any reason to run daredevil over a solid Spellbreaker/GS warrior. They both can fulfill the same role, while the spellbreaker/GS warrior has far superior output in actual combat without having to pussyfoot everywhere.

    Thief spends all initiative, endurance, and utilites to run to an unguarded point. Proceeds to decap. Druid sees this, uses staff 3, gets there in time to prevent decap.

    Thief can't do anything to druid, needs to run away and die.

    Warrior uses GS 3 and 5 to run to node, all other stills are still available. Proceeds to decap. Druid sees this, uses staff 3, tries to fight spellbreaker and dies.

  • Swadow.6213Swadow.6213 Member ✭✭✭

    Thief has no role at the moment. Engineer, Mesmer and Warrior are simply doing the job better as roamers

  • bluri.2653bluri.2653 Member ✭✭✭

    @Swadow.6213 said:
    Thief has no role at the moment. Engineer, Mesmer and Warrior are simply doing the job better as roamers

    Lol so now warriors are roamers 😂

    www.twitch.tv/sindrener - Rank 55 Dragons/Orange Logo/Team Aggression

  • Rukia.9860Rukia.9860 Member ✭✭
    edited December 5, 2017

    @Chaith.8256 said:

    @eksn.7264 said:

    @Chaith.8256 said:
    Btw, a Scourge alone on side points is Thief candy, however that movement from a scourge - virtually never going to happen.

    I very often have a necro on my team who just roams or sits home in plat 2/3...

    With multiple Scourges or no Firebrand it can happen.. If not, I still wouldn't really be surprised if someone in plat didn't know where to go

    2 games last night where our scourge instead of going mid to support me on DH kept going home and our thief was there as well team fighting instead of decapping far. So I basically had to be our thief... when I asked thief why he was team fighting he asked why I wasn't with necro? lmao. This is like plat2.

    I did have some decent matches as well, but I see this kitten every time I play. It's like going back to those beta gameplays where everyone just zergs 1 point. This is why I can't climb rank, forever stuck when you have garbage players 24/7. Once I get a little higher I just get brought back down by a couple scrubs.
    Oh well it's GW2 jokes on us xD

    GW1 rolling in its grave lol

  • Dahkeus.8243Dahkeus.8243 Member ✭✭✭

    @Kokoro.8437 said:
    The problem with thief currently is that although it has mobility, it just isn't fast enough.

    The power creep of mobility from other classes has caught up to that of the daredevil, while the combat ability of the daredevil has just gone down.

    D/P Thief straight up needs buffs.

    There isn't any reason to run daredevil over a solid Spellbreaker/GS warrior. They both can fulfill the same role, while the spellbreaker/GS warrior has far superior output in actual combat without having to pussyfoot everywhere.

    Thief spends all initiative, endurance, and utilites to run to an unguarded point. Proceeds to decap. Druid sees this, uses staff 3, gets there in time to prevent decap.

    Thief can't do anything to druid, needs to run away and die.

    Warrior uses GS 3 and 5 to run to node, all other stills are still available. Proceeds to decap. Druid sees this, uses staff 3, tries to fight spellbreaker and dies.

    1) The only way a D/P daredevil could have more mobility would be to simply teleport anywhere on the map just by thinking about it, but thieves are already practically Nightcrawler reincarnate, so even that wouldn't be much of an upgrade.

    2) If your solution to power creep is MOAR POWER CREEP! Then you're not doing anyone a favor with this suggestion.

    3) Yes, thieves aren't very strong 1 v 1, but do you really think that a class that can do big instant burst and near-instant stomps off a 1,200 teleport with a stun and rotate faster than any other class should also be able to win most 1 v 1s?

  • brannigan.9831brannigan.9831 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 5, 2017

    Decap and +1 and its not rocket science. Like 1/3 of thieves play this way the rest are morons and wonder why they can't effect a match by sticking to team fights and dueling on points the enemy teams colors. You should be capping home to start btw it drives me nuts when they don't. 25% go far and get stalemated or die to start, 50% go to middle and die to random aoe and cleaves in 3v3 or 4v4, 25% get the gold star and cap home to start.

  • MyPuppy.8970MyPuppy.8970 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Whatever the build/spec, the thief role is to be annoying, be it at decapping, +1ing, dodge spamming, unload spamming... That is why I kill them first and leave them rot whenever I can. So I can relax a bit.

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