Phantasms?

What to do about this? We all know it's a problem. Not the skills themselves per se. But the interaction with the shatter mechanics.

Do you summon three phantasms and then auto attack? (not exactly exciting or compelling game play.)

Or, do you ignore phantasms altogether,and summon clones? (leaving you with useless weapon skills...)

Do you summon one phantasm and two clones then shatter them?

Second issue. The damage produced by three phantasms is higher than the damage from a shatter. Meaning that shattering them is a bad idea. And now that clones can ambush.... Shattering them is also a bad idea.

I'd like to ask the fourm at large a few questions about this.

1. Did I accurately describe the issue? Is there some part of the mechanic I don't know? (despite playing mesmer sense launch.)
2. What suggestions do you have to fix this interaction?

Ok so here's my suggestion, but if it's bad, by all means, suggest a better one.

• phantasms don't shatter.
• gain the ability to summon one phantasm in addition to clones.
• when a new phantasm is summoned, or the old phantasm dies, the old phantasm uses a "burst" skill with a similar flavor to what the phantasm does.
• add traits to a core trait line (maybe inspiration? Idk, need help with trait placement.) that trades one 'clone summon slot' for one 'phantasm summon slot'
• change Chronophantasma to allow 3 phantasms up but only one clone. Phantasms may be shattered. Shatters gain additional effects based on which phantasms are shattered.

Goal of proposed changes:

• phantasms never conflict with shatters.
• Any build, clone phantasm, or shatter becomes viable.
• Pve dps is boosted by allowing shatters to be included in rotation.
• phantasms can be continuously summoned again and again as the skill cools down to trigger the phantasm's burst skill on death.
• with chronomancer or whatever core trait line gets the 'summon 2 phantasms and 2 clones trait' the phantasm builds are still possible and viable.
• this accomplishes most of what mesmer's have been asking for without buffing or nerfing any actual numbers too heavily (beyond the initial designing of the traits and burst skills)

What do you guys think? Helpful troll free answers only please XD

I don't believe they'll ever fix this mess called Phants vs Shatters, but anyway. My suggestions:1) make phantasms unshatterable, with X secs duration (maybe add a trait to make them last longer or something). They also wouldn't count for illusion limit. Only clones are used for shatters.2) clones can deal some power damage.3) ONLY in PvE, buff shatters to be more damaging: increase torment stacks on maim the disillusioned, create a trait that adds additional power damage to shatters, reduce CD of F2 etc.4) for Mirage, replace F1 with current weapon's ambush (buff ambushes, obviously), F2 with Crystal Sands (its effect would increase based on number of clones up), F3 with something CC related, F4 with something defensive.5) give Mirage some traits to improve clones.

This is just a general idea. I'm well aware it would take so much work and time to implement properly (all the trait changes, dps tests, and more) that it won't happen. The most important part for me is suggestion 1 though. It would make me so much happier. Ehhh...

I personally really like these ideas and have had similar ones myself in the past. The thing is I doubt they will give us all of this without taking away some of our utility in other areas. After all, we can't expect to have the greatest amount of utility in the game and amazing damage on top. I honestly wouldn't mind losing some of our utility in favour of better phantasm and shatter synergy but it's really about deciding how much we'd be willing to lose for it.

Usually I summon three Phants and then I use the weapon/elite skill(s). I only shatter if another phant-setup would be better or if a dmg-stop is required.

I could think of maybe some sort of "clone-stability-aura" like 2 summoned clones (of the same type?) add a 100% shatter-immunity to illusion nr 3, no matter if summoned before or after nr 3, which must(?) be a phant. Using a shatter-skill shatters the two clones but not the phant, using another shatter skill after the first also shatters the phant. In case of keeping the phant one has to summon two clones again before shattering the next time. In case of dmg-stop (e.g. when two or more mobs should die at about the same time) this would just need 1 click/press more, but making phants unshatterable at all during a fight would not be helpful in situations like that.

you have hit almost everything. one you did miss is a mix of clone and phantom use for some build like condi. I do see you have a good point on that its hard to chose what to pick and do. i would like to see if you sumon a phantom and then shater it if it could turn into a clone but then that might get even more hate on us and make soo meany peps just rage at us all the time. the only reason i like mes in pvp and in wvw is becouse i love to anoy everyone that herases my team but that is me.

I’ve expressed this idea in another thread (And pretty sure many more people have had the same idea in the past too) expressing the same desire to see better more active phantasmal play.

So the same as you I’d like to see phantasms be active, separate from the standard shatters and actually bring there own stronger shatter instead, so they can be used tactically in combat without feeling like you’ll waste the phantasm.

You would have clones and phantasm’s separate so you can have at most 3 clones and 1 phantasm out so that’s 3 small circles and 1 big circle.

When the phantasm is summoned the phantasm’s skill becomes it’s shatter skill and is unique to that phantasm. To fit with the theme of the sword for example we could give the phantasmal swordsman a shatter that teleports the phantasm’s enemy to the phantasm’s position and briefly daze or stun depending on if its target is suffering from cripple or blind so it can be combined with the other sword skills.

If you summon another phantasm such as from a utility skill then it would just replace the current phantasm and the other ones skill would then go on recharge as normal.

Like other ‘flip over’ skills the phantasm should be recharging while it’s shatter is available to use so you aren’t pressured into using the shatter straight away.

Because phantasm’s would be limited to 1 they should be slightly stronger and have a bit more health and damage which could be between 25% to 50% perhaps. For Chronomancers alacrity the duration or attack speed of the phantasm could be improved to compensate for just having one and same for the other phantasm’s that rely on conditions/giving boons.

Thats my hope for the mesmer anyway, they could be creative and bring back some GW1 skill names for these too.

I like a lot of the suggestions. Personally I'd like it if phantasms just popped in, did their attack and then disappeared, with the attack being buffed quite a bit to compensate. Specifically the torch phantasm needs to be looked at, Bouncing attacks are garbage and have always been garbage.

@EpicTurtle.8571 said:I like a lot of the suggestions. Personally I'd like it if phantasms just popped in, did their attack and then disappeared, with the attack being buffed quite a bit to compensate. Specifically the torch phantasm needs to be looked at, Bouncing attacks are garbage and have always been garbage.

Torch phantasm untraited makes me really sad - the cooldown is ridiculous at 30 seconds.

Really needs at least a base cooldown reduction to 25 seconds.

I’d personally get rid of the phantasms and have the mesmer do an attack along the lines of what the phantasms currently do while creating a clone to switch places with for upto 5s after. Kind of like iLeap but actually doing damage.

That way shatter mechanics are simplified to clone generating skills and shatters consuming clones while also essentially clearing up and simplifying the terminology of mesmers to illusions/clones.

@Curunen.8729 said:

@EpicTurtle.8571 said:I like a lot of the suggestions. Personally I'd like it if phantasms just popped in, did their attack and then disappeared, with the attack being buffed quite a bit to compensate. Specifically the torch phantasm needs to be looked at, Bouncing attacks are garbage and have always been garbage.

Ugh I know, 30 seconds for a really pithy burning/fury bot.

@apharma.3741 said:I’d personally get rid of the phantasms and have the mesmer do an attack along the lines of what the phantasms currently do while creating a clone to switch places with for upto 5s after. Kind of like iLeap but actually doing damage.

That way shatter mechanics are simplified to clone generating skills and shatters consuming clones while also essentially clearing up and simplifying the terminology of mesmers to illusions/clones.

In a similar vein, though not quite so big a change, I do think that the initial attacks on our weapon phantasm skills should be the phantasms attack itself for the most part. Or at least in the same vein as the phantasms skill. Sword5 is one of the worst offenders imo. Its a melee range attack on a skill that you can use from 1,200 range away, for a phantasm that can hit targets from 480 units away, whose other skill (only considering OH sword for this) is a block that nets you a 900 range counterattack. This melee bullcrap on the initial attack DOES NOT FIT sword OH. Period. The 8 might is good, but the attack itself does not fit.