"Story Mode" No — Guild Wars 2 Forums

"Story Mode" No

Kenny.5826Kenny.5826 Member ✭✭
edited December 3, 2017 in Fractals, Dungeons, and Raids

All I keep hearing seeing about raids nowadays are story mode, easy mode. No. Just... no.
This is pretty much just a rant. Developers have consistently told us they want raids to remain the most "challenging" content in the game and most of you who complain are just plain lazy (im sorry if that was offensive) but its simply the truth.
Guild Wars 2 has one of the most accessible raids in any mmorpg, if you don't believe me try get in a mythic raiding team in WoW. People have killed a boss with only 2 players for godsake (provided they are very good). Why should every content in the game be spoofed to every player, why not have a sense of accomplishment doing something you usually just 1111111 through.

Most common type of lazy players:
I don't have time.
Yes, yes you do. Or at least majority of you do. Most raid group are 2 hrs per week. You honestly can tell me that you can't spare 2 hrs a week? (I do apologize if you are one of those genuinely too busy to play but to be honest there are enough things to do in this game other than raids if you can't spare 2 hrs a week)
Everyone around me ask for 500 LI
Well... no a few do. But if you are just starting to raid LFG is not where you should start looking to raid.
Joining Training Group Sucks/Slow/etc
Well, it is supposed to be challenging content
Everyone asks for meta builds
Make your own group where you can specify that you don't need meta builds. No one is stopping you
I just want to experience the story/I want to see cinematic/ etc
Youtube m'dear.
I only want to do see the story
Well a lot raiders raid weekly and by catering to players like this, it will slow down the production of the next wing. Putting in a story mode a lot of players will use it once, experience the story and never use it again. In my humble opinion, the resources that would have been used to dedicate to make a story mode can be used somewhere else.
I don't want to dedicate that much time to raids
Then you are not as interested in the story as you might have initially thought. If you were, you would work your butt off for it.
I'll update this list with comments that will evidently come.

Point is that "story mode" has been suggested so many times and we have yet to see one hint of the mode coming out, why not embrace the challenge and have a sense of accomplishment when you finally down a/that boss. Feel like the hero you were meant to be by bring down your enemy. Feel the frustration, the anger of the fail attempts and the relief and joy when you finally killed vale guardian/xera for the first time. The story is only part of the experience. How you raid and how you interact with your comrades in arms is the complete story.

Stop trying to make the game easier.

Are you ready to bring down the first raid boss of your life?

<1

Comments

  • Tyson.5160Tyson.5160 Member ✭✭✭✭

    What does it matter if there is an easy mode and an additional hard mode. Personally I think the additions may draw more players to the game mode. As it currently is they release a raid wing what once every 9 months? Doesn’t seem like Anet is investing much into raids to begin with... Perhaps if the player base of people enjoying the raids was larger, it could be more frequent like Fractals, which also seem to be producing the same quality of content as well as different degrees of difficulty.

  • All of your complaints are valid except the idea of making the game easier. FFXIV Normal and even the train wreck that is WoW LFR prove that easy modes are good for the game, especially if done well as FFXIV normal is.

    Just make it come out later if you want to keep integrity. A patch later is a good lead time. And make it not drop LI and Ascended kitten/magnetite shards. Give it a more gold based reward.

  • Westenev.5289Westenev.5289 Member ✭✭✭✭

    If Anet impliment a story mode to teach mechanics in a less punishing way without the reward, you would remove the Taboo from raiding altogether. Isn't that a good thing?

  • meeflak.9714meeflak.9714 Member ✭✭✭

    @Westenev.5289 said:
    If Anet impliment a story mode to teach mechanics in a less punishing way without the reward, you would remove the Taboo from raiding altogether. Isn't that a good thing?

    If arenanet ever introduced a story mode, it should not have the same mechanics as the raid mode. This spoils the development time used to make the raid mechanics challenging and engaging.

    Main ranger: Adalyn Del Rayna. Plz stop saying raids are toxic.. raids are what you make them

  • Westenev.5289Westenev.5289 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @meeflak.9714 said:

    @Westenev.5289 said:
    If Anet impliment a story mode to teach mechanics in a less punishing way without the reward, you would remove the Taboo from raiding altogether. Isn't that a good thing?

    If arenanet ever introduced a story mode, it should not have the same mechanics as the raid mode. This spoils the development time used to make the raid mechanics challenging and engaging.

    That would make the entire story mode pointless.

  • meeflak.9714meeflak.9714 Member ✭✭✭

    @Westenev.5289 said:

    @meeflak.9714 said:

    @Westenev.5289 said:
    If Anet impliment a story mode to teach mechanics in a less punishing way without the reward, you would remove the Taboo from raiding altogether. Isn't that a good thing?

    If arenanet ever introduced a story mode, it should not have the same mechanics as the raid mode. This spoils the development time used to make the raid mechanics challenging and engaging.

    That would make the entire story mode pointless.

    On that note. The story mode should only be available for the story. Which yes would be pointless, like the devs have said. Is a waste of development time

    Main ranger: Adalyn Del Rayna. Plz stop saying raids are toxic.. raids are what you make them

  • Westenev.5289Westenev.5289 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @meeflak.9714 said:

    @Westenev.5289 said:

    @meeflak.9714 said:

    @Westenev.5289 said:
    If Anet impliment a story mode to teach mechanics in a less punishing way without the reward, you would remove the Taboo from raiding altogether. Isn't that a good thing?

    If arenanet ever introduced a story mode, it should not have the same mechanics as the raid mode. This spoils the development time used to make the raid mechanics challenging and engaging.

    That would make the entire story mode pointless.

    On that note. The story mode should only be available for the story. Which yes would be pointless, like the devs have said. Is a waste of development time

    And so, I suggested a counter-idea that wouldn't be a waste of developers time. If people had the confidence to raid, I'm pretty sure they would.

  • meeflak.9714meeflak.9714 Member ✭✭✭

    @Westenev.5289 said:

    @meeflak.9714 said:

    @Westenev.5289 said:

    @meeflak.9714 said:

    @Westenev.5289 said:
    If Anet impliment a story mode to teach mechanics in a less punishing way without the reward, you would remove the Taboo from raiding altogether. Isn't that a good thing?

    If arenanet ever introduced a story mode, it should not have the same mechanics as the raid mode. This spoils the development time used to make the raid mechanics challenging and engaging.

    That would make the entire story mode pointless.

    On that note. The story mode should only be available for the story. Which yes would be pointless, like the devs have said. Is a waste of development time

    And so, I suggested a counter-idea that wouldn't be a waste of developers time. If people had the confidence to raid, I'm pretty sure they would.

    The only thing getting in the way of peoples confidence Is there pre conceived ideas of how the raiding community operates, their expectations, and there limitations. I'm not going to go into another full fledged argument on the subject. But you can make the raiding experience whatever you want to make it.

    Showing off all the mechanics of the raid while in a protective bubble ruins the integrity of the raid, and it's mechanics.

    Main ranger: Adalyn Del Rayna. Plz stop saying raids are toxic.. raids are what you make them

  • Westenev.5289Westenev.5289 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @meeflak.9714 said:

    @Westenev.5289 said:

    @meeflak.9714 said:

    @Westenev.5289 said:

    @meeflak.9714 said:

    @Westenev.5289 said:
    If Anet impliment a story mode to teach mechanics in a less punishing way without the reward, you would remove the Taboo from raiding altogether. Isn't that a good thing?

    If arenanet ever introduced a story mode, it should not have the same mechanics as the raid mode. This spoils the development time used to make the raid mechanics challenging and engaging.

    That would make the entire story mode pointless.

    On that note. The story mode should only be available for the story. Which yes would be pointless, like the devs have said. Is a waste of development time

    And so, I suggested a counter-idea that wouldn't be a waste of developers time. If people had the confidence to raid, I'm pretty sure they would.

    The only thing getting in the way of peoples confidence Is there pre conceived ideas of how the raiding community operates, their expectations, and there limitations. I'm not going to go into another full fledged argument on the subject. But you can make the raiding experience whatever you want to make it.

    Showing off all the mechanics of the raid while in a protective bubble ruins the integrity of the raid, and it's mechanics.

    You know what I say to that? To hell with integrity if it's getting in the way of fun. xD

    If Anet has a problem with keeping their mechanics a secret, I think they could easily wait a week or two to release the story mode (kind of like releasing the awnsers to a puzzle you can't figure out on your own). At that point, all the first-clears should have their video tutorials up and QTFY would have their meta comps published. Or maybe you think these sources also hurt the integrity of raid mechanics?

  • meeflak.9714meeflak.9714 Member ✭✭✭

    @Westenev.5289 said:

    @meeflak.9714 said:

    @Westenev.5289 said:

    @meeflak.9714 said:

    @Westenev.5289 said:

    @meeflak.9714 said:

    @Westenev.5289 said:
    If Anet impliment a story mode to teach mechanics in a less punishing way without the reward, you would remove the Taboo from raiding altogether. Isn't that a good thing?

    If arenanet ever introduced a story mode, it should not have the same mechanics as the raid mode. This spoils the development time used to make the raid mechanics challenging and engaging.

    That would make the entire story mode pointless.

    On that note. The story mode should only be available for the story. Which yes would be pointless, like the devs have said. Is a waste of development time

    And so, I suggested a counter-idea that wouldn't be a waste of developers time. If people had the confidence to raid, I'm pretty sure they would.

    The only thing getting in the way of peoples confidence Is there pre conceived ideas of how the raiding community operates, their expectations, and there limitations. I'm not going to go into another full fledged argument on the subject. But you can make the raiding experience whatever you want to make it.

    Showing off all the mechanics of the raid while in a protective bubble ruins the integrity of the raid, and it's mechanics.

    You know what I say to that? To hell with integrity if it's getting in the way of fun. xD

    If Anet has a problem with keeping their mechanics a secret, I think they could easily wait a week or two to release the story mode (kind of like releasing the awnsers to a puzzle you can't figure out on your own). At that point, all the first-clears should have their video tutorials up and QTFY would have their meta comps published. Or maybe you think these sources also hurt the integrity of raid mechanics?

    That's far more reasonable, but arenanet has said they just don't want to spare the development time, and raids will remain with the image they set out to establish.

    And story mode raids would need to have toned back rewards. No ascended , LI , decorations, etc

    Main ranger: Adalyn Del Rayna. Plz stop saying raids are toxic.. raids are what you make them

  • Westenev.5289Westenev.5289 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 3, 2017

    @meeflak.9714 said:

    @Westenev.5289 said:

    @meeflak.9714 said:

    @Westenev.5289 said:

    @meeflak.9714 said:

    @Westenev.5289 said:

    @meeflak.9714 said:

    @Westenev.5289 said:
    If Anet impliment a story mode to teach mechanics in a less punishing way without the reward, you would remove the Taboo from raiding altogether. Isn't that a good thing?

    If arenanet ever introduced a story mode, it should not have the same mechanics as the raid mode. This spoils the development time used to make the raid mechanics challenging and engaging.

    That would make the entire story mode pointless.

    On that note. The story mode should only be available for the story. Which yes would be pointless, like the devs have said. Is a waste of development time

    And so, I suggested a counter-idea that wouldn't be a waste of developers time. If people had the confidence to raid, I'm pretty sure they would.

    The only thing getting in the way of peoples confidence Is there pre conceived ideas of how the raiding community operates, their expectations, and there limitations. I'm not going to go into another full fledged argument on the subject. But you can make the raiding experience whatever you want to make it.

    Showing off all the mechanics of the raid while in a protective bubble ruins the integrity of the raid, and it's mechanics.

    You know what I say to that? To hell with integrity if it's getting in the way of fun. xD

    If Anet has a problem with keeping their mechanics a secret, I think they could easily wait a week or two to release the story mode (kind of like releasing the awnsers to a puzzle you can't figure out on your own). At that point, all the first-clears should have their video tutorials up and QTFY would have their meta comps published. Or maybe you think these sources also hurt the integrity of raid mechanics?

    That's far more reasonable, but arenanet has said they just don't want to spare the development time, and raids will remain with the image they set out to establish.

    And story mode raids would need to have toned back rewards. No ascended , LI , decorations, etc

    I agree with ASC and LI, but decorations aren’t really all that good ‘o.O Well, besides turret fragments. I have a special place in my hall for those!

    I figure if enough people bring it up, one (or more) developer(s) will take pity on us. Raids are fun, and it's a shame so many people are afraid to try them because they're too scared, or they can't sync 2 hours of their time with 9 other people (a tiny oversimplification the OP conveniently forgets to mention).

  • Kheldorn.5123Kheldorn.5123 Member ✭✭✭✭

    They will implement story mode / difficulty scaling at some point eventually. We are past the peak of interest in raiding in the community, they are only to lose support and interest in time and will end up being pvp 2.0 - a gimmick :)

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:
    They will implement story mode / difficulty scaling at some point eventually. We are past the peak of interest in raiding in the community, they are only to lose support and interest in time and will end up being pvp 2.0 - a gimmick :)

    I am sure you are about to provide some metrics which prove this assumption. Otherwise it's just that, the subjective assumption of someone who doesn't raid.

  • flog.3485flog.3485 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 3, 2017

    @AstralDusk.1670 said:
    Nobody wants to compete in the Olympics when it's their first time swimming. A toned-down, low-or-no-reward version would grow the community a little more.

    But first time swimming already exists in the game. It is called dungeons, fractals and open world.

    Edit: and golems special force training area.

  • Vinceman.4572Vinceman.4572 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:
    They will implement story mode / difficulty scaling at some point eventually. We are past the peak of interest in raiding in the community, they are only to lose support and interest in time and will end up being pvp 2.0 - a gimmick :)

    Facts? :)

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    I am sure you are about to provide some metrics which prove this assumption. Otherwise it's just that, the subjective assumption of someone who doesn't raid.

    Surprisingly enough, I agree that some time in the future they will add something in Raids. Nothing to prove it of course.
    Now about why I think this will happen some time in the future?
    In other games you don't really care about the lower tier Raids and the vast majority of the raiding population is doing the more "current" Raids, the Raids that drop the current best gear. At the same time, older Raids become easier (due to the gear/level difference)
    This creates the problem of having less and less players willing to play the older Raids, you might not see it now, but when we have double the Raids we have now (or sooner) we'll get there. And since older Raids won't become easier, they will look like abandoned content.

    Again, it's not a concern at this point, and I'm more worried about Hall of Chains. It's new and shinny now but the end reward is a Ring. The first two Raids give Legendary Armor which, unless they add another set in a future Raid (doubtful), will remain a good reason to run them forever.

    The developers also clearly said in the recent AMA that they will be releasing Raids more often during Season 4.
    Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/7g7wds/living_world_season_4_daybreak_devs_here_ask_us/dqh6bac/
    So there is no reason for concern at the moment.

  • CptAurellian.9537CptAurellian.9537 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Vinceman.4572 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:
    They will implement story mode / difficulty scaling at some point eventually. We are past the peak of interest in raiding in the community, they are only to lose support and interest in time and will end up being pvp 2.0 - a gimmick :)

    Facts? :)

    Are overrated. Alternative facts ftw.

    Praise delta!

  • Kheldorn.5123Kheldorn.5123 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:
    They will implement story mode / difficulty scaling at some point eventually. We are past the peak of interest in raiding in the community, they are only to lose support and interest in time and will end up being pvp 2.0 - a gimmick :)

    I am sure you are about to provide some metrics which prove this assumption. Otherwise it's just that, the subjective assumption of someone who doesn't raid.

    This is natural lifecycle of mmos that some content loses its popularity and is left for most invested fans only. Especially true for old mmos, which GW2 is. Raid is nice gimmick but it will never grow to be main part of the game :)

  • Rennie.6750Rennie.6750 Member ✭✭✭

    That does sound like rich kids coming to a charity event, plundering and destroying toys because "the poor shouldn't have nice things". The real question is why do you care and why are you so selfish? :)

  • Okay, you can make a story mode and it is a good idea for 2 reasons:
    1. It allows casual players who are not good at raiding, but love story, to get the important chucks of lore out of the raid and enjoy the ambient story telling.
    2. It can be used as an opertunity to teach these casual players raid mechanics so they can then go and do hardcore raid as contributing members.

    But how can a story mode teach mechanics if its made easy? You say. If you change the fight they wont learn anything, you say. Well there is a simple solution:
    1. Dont change mechanics, cycles, attack patterns, boss skills, leave that all the same
    2. Instead, increase the time limit, decrease the bosses healty bar and the amount of damage the boss deals in his attacks. Leave everything else the same.

    This will make the fight easy, but still teach the core mechanics that are needed for the hardcore mode.

    B-but, the rewards, the prestigue, they shouldnt be able to easily earn what we struggle for! What would be the point of us playing the hard mode if we could get the same rewards on an easier story mode??? You are correct, and that is why most, if not all of the current rewards should be locked behind hardcore mode.

    In effect, this will actually encourage casual players to play story mode as a method of training to 'get gud' enough for harcore so they can obtain rewards. And as such, the prestigue is still maintained, and the amount of skilled raiders in the game will increase. Everyone benifets.

  • @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    I am sure you are about to provide some metrics which prove this assumption. Otherwise it's just that, the subjective assumption of someone who doesn't raid.

    Surprisingly enough, I agree that some time in the future they will add something in Raids. Nothing to prove it of course.
    Now about why I think this will happen some time in the future?
    In other games you don't really care about the lower tier Raids and the vast majority of the raiding population is doing the more "current" Raids, the Raids that drop the current best gear. At the same time, older Raids become easier (due to the gear/level difference)
    This creates the problem of having less and less players willing to play the older Raids, you might not see it now, but when we have double the Raids we have now (or sooner) we'll get there. And since older Raids won't become easier, they will look like abandoned content.

    Again, it's not a concern at this point, and I'm more worried about Hall of Chains. It's new and shinny now but the end reward is a Ring. The first two Raids give Legendary Armor which, unless they add another set in a future Raid (doubtful), will remain a good reason to run them forever.

    The developers also clearly said in the recent AMA that they will be releasing Raids more often during Season 4.
    Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/7g7wds/living_world_season_4_daybreak_devs_here_ask_us/dqh6bac/
    So there is no reason for concern at the moment.

    Not nessisarily so. In other games the older raids become easy due to the treadmill of better gear making older content less challenging. As guild wars 2 does not implement new tiers of better gear, that effect will not be as pronounced, if present at all.

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 3, 2017

    @Kenny.5826 said:
    why not embrace the challenge and have a sense of accomplishment when you finally down a/that boss. Feel like the hero you were meant to be by bring down your enemy.

    Truth?

    Because after over a decade of raiding, I never felt like the hero.. I always felt like a rat in a maze. Raids were always more a grind-chore then a challenge where I was forced to constantly deal with people I didn't like and attitudes I can't stand.. I bit my tongue to all kinds of douchebagery all in the quest to grind out some stupid bit of loot just to remain top tier, for no other reason then to keep viable in raiding community.

    I would much sooner quit this game, then ever go back to playing like that again.

    There are two kinds of Gamers, Salty, and Extra Salty.
    Ego is the Anesthesia that dullens the pain of Stupidity.

  • meeflak.9714meeflak.9714 Member ✭✭✭

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Kenny.5826 said:
    why not embrace the challenge and have a sense of accomplishment when you finally down a/that boss. Feel like the hero you were meant to be by bring down your enemy.

    Truth?

    Because after over a decade of raiding, I never felt like the hero.. I always felt like a rat in a maze. Raids were always more a grind-chore then a challenge where I was forced to constantly deal with people I didn't like and attitudes I can't stand.. I bit my tongue to all kinds of douchebagery all in the quest to grind out some stupid bit of loot just to remain top tier, for no other reason then to keep viable in raiding community.

    I would much sooner quit this game, then ever go back to playing like that again.

    And here you are again in another thread, comparing gw2 raids to other games......it's....not....the....same....game.......

    Whatever game you played before, whatever experiences you've had, are completely irrelevant when talking about raids in gw2.. gw2 had no gear treadmill, gw2 isn't a grind for gear stats to win kind of game.. you can raid in exotics and never look back. And even then ascended is just one step up and easily obtainable in the raids themselves.. you're not going to have to grind for months to gear re gear your toon every expansions.

    The more I read your posts throughout the threads in this forum the more it becomes clear you don't understand how raids in gw2 work. You should really take the time to do some research before spreading negativity around the forums

    Main ranger: Adalyn Del Rayna. Plz stop saying raids are toxic.. raids are what you make them

  • CptAurellian.9537CptAurellian.9537 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @OtakuModeEngage.8679 said:
    But how can a story mode teach mechanics if its made easy? You say. If you change the fight they wont learn anything, you say. Well there is a simple solution:
    1. Dont change mechanics, cycles, attack patterns, boss skills, leave that all the same
    2. Instead, increase the time limit, decrease the bosses healty bar and the amount of damage the boss deals in his attacks. Leave everything else the same.

    An easymode does not teach anything. Trivialising these aspects means that no one will care about mechanics instead of learning how to deal with stuff.

    Praise delta!

  • Heyo, list of things and answer I see through the replies

    Personally I think the additions may draw more players to the game mode
    Strictly speaking yes but no. They aren't really "raiding" if all the mechanics can be ignored/tanked and people just 111111. Raids are and should be difficult. If you made a story mode where people can just ignore everything and 11111 everything to death and try the real mechanics.... it changes nothing except uses more development time. A lot of people will only do the story raid once or twice where normal mode, a lot of raiders do it weekly. Badly phrased but hope you understand
    All of your complaints are valid except the idea of making the game easier. FFXIV Normal and even the train wreck that is WoW LFR prove that easy modes are good for the game, especially if done well as FFXIV normal is.
    FFXIV and WoW are both subscription based which not only increases the amount of money they have but also a certain amount of stability/planning etc resources for development of raids = more resources to build more modes. So no.
    If Anet impliment a story mode to teach mechanics in a less punishing way without the reward, you would remove the Taboo from raiding altogether. Isn't that a good thing?
    No. It doesn't teach mechanics if people can ignore them. There is no taboo in raiding. What is the taboo?
    And so, I suggested a counter-idea that wouldn't be a waste of developers time. If people had the confidence to raid, I'm pretty sure they would.
    Yes it would be, because then we would get new wings less quickly because there would need to be an increase in development per wing. Especially if the story mode is there for people to experience once or twice while the rest of the frequent raiders raid weekly.
    Nobody wants to compete in the Olympics when it's their first time swimming. A toned-down, low-or-no-reward version would grow the community a little more.
    I would love the community to be bigger but as i said if its toned down people can tank it etc they aren't really raiding. Read first answer in this post
    It allows casual players who are not good at raiding, but love story, to get the important chucks of lore out of the raid and enjoy the ambient story telling.
    If they want to experience it, they can work for it. Please refer back to my post
    **It can be used as an opertunity to teach these casual players raid mechanics so they can then go and do hardcore raid as contributing members.
    **
    No it teaches bad habit by letting newer players think that tanking the mechanics have no consequences. Raiding in this game is not hardcore unless ur low manning

    More ty

  • Nick Lentz.6982Nick Lentz.6982 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 3, 2017

    You missed the major reason people can't do raids. Which also hurts majority of players;
    There is not enough time in a week to sit down and spend hours trying to raid.

    But basically you're just being an kitten of "I'm right you're wrong, so this post is better than any pro-raid post, and what I say is law. Nenernenerneener"

    Which brings another reason why people do not like raids.

    Vinnorin Almar, Firebrand of Maguuma.
    I Crit Under Pressure is recruiting, message me for an invite ^_^

  • Kain Francois.4328Kain Francois.4328 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 3, 2017

    I can just imagine GW1 fans frothing at the mouth and shaking their head in shame.

    Story is in itself a reward for challenging content. It is meant to give the player wonder, and marry gameplay to the story. I still remember for the longest time wondering what Twisted Castle looked like, and for awhile I couldn't access it because of how difficult Keep Construct was at release. That story block is part of the experience, and finally being able to see what is beyond is part of the reward. It's like the Ebony Citadel in GW1, where you had to clear the Domain of Anguish first, overcoming through seemingly impossible odds to face the ultimate boss at the end, Mallyx. That satisfaction of finally being able to reach the area was part of the reward.

    Listen, I don't care what focus testing says, and I don't care what the whales with a gambling addiction say. Sometimes the integrity of the game is more important than pleasing everyone. Contrary to what you might think, raids are more than just a numbers game, but a set piece in and itself. To say that "everybody is a winner!" and just ruin the sense of accomplishment because "casuals need to see it too!" would just ruin the set piece. Please do not create an easy raid.

    Besides, frankly, I've had enough of GW2 catering to brain damage. The current state of the personal story, where you can just autoattack to win, where npcs guide you constantly where you need to go, where everything is a stupid scripted event, is utterly pathetic from a game design standpoint.

  • @Nick Lentz.6982
    you don't have time to sit down for 2 hrs in a week to play the game?

  • @Kenny.5826 said:
    @Nick Lentz.6982
    you don't have time to sit down for 2 hrs in a week to play the game?

    If you're brand new to raids? Are you kidding me? Not to mention the time to get a group.
    I've finished wing one. Only When I pretended i knew what I was doing in a raid. After that I have joined training guilds, only to be conveniently working at their trading times.

    You are not allowed to join a pro run, or you don't have time to do pug it.

    Vinnorin Almar, Firebrand of Maguuma.
    I Crit Under Pressure is recruiting, message me for an invite ^_^

  • @Nick Lentz.6982 said:

    You are not allowed to join a pro run, or you don't have time to do pug it.

    Too bad.

    I can't reach level 3 on Sonic Spinball.

  • Westenev.5289Westenev.5289 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kain Francois.4328 said:

    @Nick Lentz.6982 said:

    You are not allowed to join a pro run, or you don't have time to do pug it.

    Too bad.

    I can't reach level 3 on Sonic Spinball.

    At least you can play Sonic Spinball without gathering 10 different people at the same time, and all of whom hog a different button.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kenny.5826 said:
    @Nick Lentz.6982
    you don't have time to sit down for 2 hrs in a week to play the game?

    2 hrs per week is not enough for most players to even learn raids. And most of the raiders won't be able to do full clear in that time even if they have learned.
    Yes, some players can do that (either because they themselves are good, or because they have skilled friends that can carry them), but that in no way means it's something everyone has a reasonable chance of achieving. And, with more and more wings, it will only get worse.

    Also, remember that's 2 hours of continuous time specially dedicated to raids, on top of any other activity you might want to do that day. Yes, lot of people really can't do that.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Kenny.5826 said:
    @Nick Lentz.6982
    you don't have time to sit down for 2 hrs in a week to play the game?

    2 hrs per week is not enough for most players to even learn raids.

    Wut.

    I taught a new player, completely fresh to the game with a lv80 boost, how to do slothasor. I bought the dude a full zerk set, and in one night we cleared Wing 2. He was doing inner method on sloth too.

  • Tyson.5160Tyson.5160 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Miellyn.6847 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:
    They will implement story mode / difficulty scaling at some point eventually. We are past the peak of interest in raiding in the community, they are only to lose support and interest in time and will end up being pvp 2.0 - a gimmick :)

    I am sure you are about to provide some metrics which prove this assumption. Otherwise it's just that, the subjective assumption of someone who doesn't raid.

    This is natural lifecycle of mmos that some content loses its popularity and is left for most invested fans only. Especially true for old mmos, which GW2 is. Raid is nice gimmick but it will never grow to be main part of the game :)

    Yes, they were never intended to be a main part of the game. Thats why they cater to players who want a challenge and not your average player. Thats also why they will likely never add a story mode and this dicussion is not constructive at all.

    Probably the reason why it takes close to a year to make content, it’s not the focal point and never will be because the gw2 community doesn’t play it... if only there was a way to have more players play the content, oh well, new Raid wing in October 2018!

  • @Kain Francois.4328 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Kenny.5826 said:
    @Nick Lentz.6982
    you don't have time to sit down for 2 hrs in a week to play the game?

    2 hrs per week is not enough for most players to even learn raids.

    Wut.

    I taught a new player, completely fresh to the game with a lv80 boost, how to do slothasor. I bought the dude a full zerk set, and in one night we cleared Wing 2. He was doing inner method on sloth too.

    I bet you guys duo'd. Must be a new record?

    Vinnorin Almar, Firebrand of Maguuma.
    I Crit Under Pressure is recruiting, message me for an invite ^_^

  • Taygus.4571Taygus.4571 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 4, 2017

    A story mode could be simply lower attack and less health. I don't think that would take much development. It's numbers, nothing else need be changed. Or story mode could give a buff to players that would make them take less damage. So messing up wouldn't be as punishing.

    This could teach new players who are weary of trying raids. If they like the easy mode, maybe they'd like the harder mode?

    Btw, I'm not interested raids so I really don't care but I don't think a numbers tweak would be that hard or time consuming to add.

  • Randulf.7614Randulf.7614 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 3, 2017

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:
    They will implement story mode / difficulty scaling at some point eventually. We are past the peak of interest in raiding in the community, they are only to lose support and interest in time and will end up being pvp 2.0 - a gimmick :)

    I am sure you are about to provide some metrics which prove this assumption. Otherwise it's just that, the subjective assumption of someone who doesn't raid.

    This is natural lifecycle of mmos that some content loses its popularity and is left for most invested fans only. Especially true for old mmos, which GW2 is. Raid is nice gimmick but it will never grow to be main part of the game :)

    Which likely will be interpreted as less time dedcated to raids not more time and on developing a story mode. Raids arent designed to be a main part in terms of a majority population, they are specifically designed only to cater to the skilled player.

    As someone who doesnt raid in gw2 for various reasons, I actually dont think a story mode should exist. Raids are challenging content. High end fractals are challenging content. Open world/main story/t1 fractals are for the rest of us. To raid means to rise to the challenge they set for it.

    Given the story itself of raids as far as I can see is threadbare (not an insult, it is as it should be), a story mode seems rather pointless.

    If mechanics are the issue, then enough guilds offer training runs which likely please Anet immensley given their stance on cooperative play.

    Ill be surprised given the busy schedules of the dev teams that a story mode ever gets put in and as a non raider Im ok with that

    What sleep is here? What dreams there are in the unctuous coiling of the snakes mortal shuffling. weapon in my hand. My hand the arcing deathblow at the end of all things. The horror. The horror. I embrace it. . .

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 4, 2017

    @meeflak.9714 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Kenny.5826 said:
    why not embrace the challenge and have a sense of accomplishment when you finally down a/that boss. Feel like the hero you were meant to be by bring down your enemy.

    Truth?

    Because after over a decade of raiding, I never felt like the hero.. I always felt like a rat in a maze. Raids were always more a grind-chore then a challenge where I was forced to constantly deal with people I didn't like and attitudes I can't stand.. I bit my tongue to all kinds of douchebagery all in the quest to grind out some stupid bit of loot just to remain top tier, for no other reason then to keep viable in raiding community.

    I would much sooner quit this game, then ever go back to playing like that again.

    And here you are again in another thread, comparing gw2 raids to other games......it's....not....the....same....game.......

    Whatever game you played before, whatever experiences you've had, are completely irrelevant when talking about raids in gw2.. gw2 had no gear treadmill, gw2 isn't a grind for gear stats to win kind of game.. you can raid in exotics and never look back. And even then ascended is just one step up and easily obtainable in the raids themselves.. you're not going to have to grind for months to gear re gear your toon every expansions.

    The more I read your posts throughout the threads in this forum the more it becomes clear you don't understand how raids in gw2 work. You should really take the time to do some research before spreading negativity around the forums

    LOL, reality check, the Players are all the same,

    The game itself is irrelevant, I've done hundreds of kinds of raids,.across various kinds of MMO's, , Just because the mechanics of the raid a little different, or the game is called GW2 as opposed to Tera does not change the people, the players are always the same elitist toxic mentality of being better then anyone else. Did you really think the game itself mattered?

    It doesn't..but, If it did..I'd be more accepting.. however, I have the read the same tripe you are saying today for the last two decades across dozens of game forums,. It's Always the same kind of people. Nothing changes that.

    And dance left as opposed to right.. is not going to make me feel like a hero.

    It's painfully laughable that you think the game changes the players. Go read any games forums, or play other kinds of games, you could find your mirror all over the place. That is why no one believes you when you say the same thing they have heard before on other games. It was a lie then, and nothing has changed.

    There are two kinds of Gamers, Salty, and Extra Salty.
    Ego is the Anesthesia that dullens the pain of Stupidity.

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @meeflak.9714 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @meeflak.9714 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Kenny.5826 said:
    why not embrace the challenge and have a sense of accomplishment when you finally down a/that boss. Feel like the hero you were meant to be by bring down your enemy.

    Truth?

    Because after over a decade of raiding, I never felt like the hero.. I always felt like a rat in a maze. Raids were always more a grind-chore then a challenge where I was forced to constantly deal with people I didn't like and attitudes I can't stand.. I bit my tongue to all kinds of douchebagery all in the quest to grind out some stupid bit of loot just to remain top tier, for no other reason then to keep viable in raiding community.

    I would much sooner quit this game, then ever go back to playing like that again.

    And here you are again in another thread, comparing gw2 raids to other games......it's....not....the....same....game.......

    Whatever game you played before, whatever experiences you've had, are completely irrelevant when talking about raids in gw2.. gw2 had no gear treadmill, gw2 isn't a grind for gear stats to win kind of game.. you can raid in exotics and never look back. And even then ascended is just one step up and easily obtainable in the raids themselves.. you're not going to have to grind for months to gear re gear your toon every expansions.

    The more I read your posts throughout the threads in this forum the more it becomes clear you don't understand how raids in gw2 work. You should really take the time to do some research before spreading negativity around the forums

    LOL, reality check, YOU the Players, are all the same, the game itself is irrelevant. Just because the mechanics of the raid a little different, does not change the elitist toxic mentality behind those that play it.

    If it did.. 'be a little more accepting.. but I have the read the same tripe you are saying today 10 years ago on another games forums.. Always the same.

    The vast majority of us aren't toxic. I'm not, the community I surround myself with are not. But here you are calling the whole raiding community toxic. Cutting them down. You're mindset, you're attitude, is what's toxic in this forums. More toxic then most raider's I know. You're the only one to blame for your bad attitude, move past the people who you disagree with, move past the people you find toxic.. make the experience what you want it to be.stop coming into the forums to offer nothing but negativity

    Sure you're not.. I'd said the same thing myself for years.

    Here is the truth, you only want this game mode so you can feel better then other people. If everyone could raid, it would lose it's shine and you and yours would cry for something else to set yourself apart as better then the unwashed masses.

    You call me Toxic because I want a game that is inclusive.. how wrong and bad of me to feel that everyone should be able to find their own journey and enjoy the game fully at their own pace. Yes, how wrong of me to want to include people, how toxic of me to want everyone to have fun.. I am such a horrible person for that, at least.. I am to people like you...

    There are two kinds of Gamers, Salty, and Extra Salty.
    Ego is the Anesthesia that dullens the pain of Stupidity.

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:
    They will implement story mode / difficulty scaling at some point eventually. We are past the peak of interest in raiding in the community, they are only to lose support and interest in time and will end up being pvp 2.0 - a gimmick :)

    I am sure you are about to provide some metrics which prove this assumption. Otherwise it's just that, the subjective assumption of someone who doesn't raid.

    This is natural lifecycle of mmos that some content loses its popularity and is left for most invested fans only. Especially true for old mmos, which GW2 is. Raid is nice gimmick but it will never grow to be main part of the game :)

    Ye lw is at that stage as well, curious why they still develope on it :/

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Kenny.5826 said:
    @Nick Lentz.6982
    you don't have time to sit down for 2 hrs in a week to play the game?

    2 hrs per week is not enough for most players to even learn raids. And most of the raiders won't be able to do full clear in that time even if they have learned.
    Yes, some players can do that (either because they themselves are good, or because they have skilled friends that can carry them), but that in no way means it's something everyone has a reasonable chance of achieving. And, with more and more wings, it will only get worse.

    Also, remember that's 2 hours of continuous time specially dedicated to raids, on top of any other activity you might want to do that day. Yes, lot of people really can't do that.

    Nobody said you can or should be able to start clearing in your first 2 hour. And thats the good think about raids thats what makes it all the more satisfying.

  • Kuulpb.5412Kuulpb.5412 Member ✭✭✭

    An Easy mode for raids that removes the loot would be a good segue into raiding, as people who want to raid for the story (such as myself) get to experience the story, while those wanting to fully raid can learn mechanics in a less punishing way, while not obtaining loot from the raid. I do not see any downsides.

  • Felipe.1807Felipe.1807 Member ✭✭✭

    Honestly i dont mind at all hard stuff, i kind like it...what I dont like is have do deal with 9 other random people telling me what to play and how play it...was pain back in the day to run dungeons without your guild and friends...there was allways one player who would make one mistake and someone else would make a big deal of it... like "oh we will take 1 min more to finish this, this dude suck(try to kick that player from the party)...
    a solo mode in my opinion would be great...just because is solo, dosent mean that it have to be easy, make it hard as naked lv 1 Dark Souls NG+7, but dont make me deal with this kind of players...all my patience that i used to have is gone from the years of dungeons. Is really funny to watch the LFG, every single one allways demand experince and the ones that dont, never get enough people lol...lets be honest, raiding was the worst decision Anet have ever made...they made the game do a whole 180º from what used to stand for, it is a shame.
    Not sure what you guys experinces are, but from my own, the 200+ players on my guild, only 6 or something that actually raid constantly...when we try to get a squad for raids, we usually have trouble to get 10 players lol

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kuulpb.5412 said:
    An Easy mode for raids that removes the loot would be a good segue into raiding, as people who want to raid for the story (such as myself) get to experience the story, while those wanting to fully raid can learn mechanics in a less punishing way, while not obtaining loot from the raid. I do not see any downsides.

    It's been suggested, and I know this feel, and think it would be a good compromise, but, Anet has already said this will never happen.

    There are two kinds of Gamers, Salty, and Extra Salty.
    Ego is the Anesthesia that dullens the pain of Stupidity.

  • Tyson.5160Tyson.5160 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Which is sad because I believe it would allow more people to experience the content and build up more confidence resulting in the mode being less unapproachable...

  • Sykper.6583Sykper.6583 Member ✭✭✭

    @Tyson.5160 said:
    Which is sad because I believe it would allow more people to experience the content and build up more confidence resulting in the mode being less unapproachable...

    The issue to ask is this:

    "What is the main difference between someone who has not seen a mechanic from the normal raid encounter before, versus someone who has seen the easier version and is not aware of what the normal encounter changes?"

    One of the most pressing issues with establishing a story-mode that would, with some intent, make people want to try the normal version of the encounter is if the mechanic requirement is 100% emphasized to not be ignored in either. If for example, a story-mode player learned that Vale Guardian's Green Circles are not a threat whatsoever and carried that knowledge into trying to his normal mode, their position to completing the normal encounter is actually worse off than if they were fresh off the roster and haven't seen anything yet. Because for some time they've been actively avoiding dealing with the Green circle mechanic, now they have to given their role.

    Story-mode, given its rewardless state, would not resolve any issues in getting new players into raiding. In fact, it could easier be responsible for an influx of new raiders who have no idea how to approach the proper encounter and cause mischief for it.

    It is significantly easier for Arenanet to continue making the content difficult and instead rely on the community to bring up would-be raiders.

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