Living World Season 1 Achievements

Currently living world season 1 achievements upto clockwork chaos (most about 200 AP) grant a huge amount of achievement points compared to many of the newer living story episodes in season 2 and 3. While some of the newer episodes do have comparable AP attainable it is not the norm and everyone can access them equally, the same cannot be said of season 1 achievements that unfairly punish new players or those that for real life reasons could not play GW2 (deployment, year away, travelling etc) and so cannot get these achievement points at all.

I would like to propose that either we bring back a way to earn those achievement points for LS1 or the complete removal of achievement points on any and all achievements that are not open to all players regardless of when they joined.

GW2 is about competing on the same basic footing, which is why PvP has the amulet system and at lvl 1 you’re on an even start with all others whether you started 5 years ago or yesterday, I think this should extend to achievement points while there is a leaderboard.

The one time event nature of season 1 was probably the biggest mistake Anet have made with GW2, and it's unlikely we will ever see a fix for it, I think they would rather pretend like it never happened...

I would love to see this fixed indeed, but already posted a discussion about this issue on October 16th:

Is it fair that LW S1 achievement points are unobtainable for newer players?

If you want you may continue there, then we keep things a little less scattered. Please note that the opinions about the need for a solution and if yes, which solution differs. (As to be expected)

@TheQuickFox.3826 said:I would love to see this fixed indeed, but already posted a discussion about this issue on October 16th:

Is it fair that LW S1 achievement points are unobtainable for newer players?

If you want you may continue there, then we keep things a little less scattered. Please note that the opinions about the need for a solution and if yes, which solution differs. (As to be expected)

Oh I just think AP hunting should be on even footing as there’s a leaderboard and everything, can’t have the people at the top stay there simply because 1 guy was deployed in Afghanistan in 2012 and so couldn’t play while another was able to play without there being a way to catch up.

LS2, 3 and 4 you can miss for a full year, expansions and everything, take a big long break and never miss AP. I am only asking for parity between season 1 and the others, either bring back a way to earn LS1 AP or remove all the unobtainable AP.

I surely agree with you. Hell, in GW1 you can even still obtain the famous God Walking Amongst Mere Mortals title today, if you would have the time and skill to invest in this title track, it would be quite hard to find groups for certain mission bonus/masters rewards tho. But a good guild or group of friends would be able to get those and all the rest can be done solo or with heroes still today.

Even pre-searing still exists.

@apharma.3741 said:Currently living world season 1 achievements upto clockwork chaos (most about 200 AP) grant a huge amount of achievement points compared to many of the newer living story episodes in season 2 and 3. While some of the newer episodes do have comparable AP attainable it is not the norm and everyone can access them equally, the same cannot be said of season 1 achievements that unfairly punish new players or those that for real life reasons could not play GW2 (deployment, year away, travelling etc) and so cannot get these achievement points at all.

I would like to propose that either we bring back a way to earn those achievement points for LS1 or the complete removal of achievement points on any and all achievements that are not open to all players regardless of when they joined.

GW2 is about competing on the same basic footing, which is why PvP has the amulet system and at lvl 1 you’re on an even start with all others whether you started 5 years ago or yesterday, I think this should extend to achievement points while there is a leaderboard.

Why not just remove the Leaderboard then? Not everything needs to be a competition and if making it "fair" for people who didn't do the content for whatever reason means taking away APs from those who actually did that content, well, then I'd rather they just remove the Leaderboards completely.

@Pifil.5193 said:

@apharma.3741 said:Currently living world season 1 achievements upto clockwork chaos (most about 200 AP) grant a huge amount of achievement points compared to many of the newer living story episodes in season 2 and 3. While some of the newer episodes do have comparable AP attainable it is not the norm and everyone can access them equally, the same cannot be said of season 1 achievements that unfairly punish new players or those that for real life reasons could not play GW2 (deployment, year away, travelling etc) and so cannot get these achievement points at all.

I would like to propose that either we bring back a way to earn those achievement points for LS1 or the complete removal of achievement points on any and all achievements that are not open to all players regardless of when they joined.

GW2 is about competing on the same basic footing, which is why PvP has the amulet system and at lvl 1 you’re on an even start with all others whether you started 5 years ago or yesterday, I think this should extend to achievement points while there is a leaderboard.

There's still a lot of great rewards from AP. And there's still AP tags ingame.

@ReaverKane.7598 said:

@Pifil.5193 said:

@apharma.3741 said:Currently living world season 1 achievements upto clockwork chaos (most about 200 AP) grant a huge amount of achievement points compared to many of the newer living story episodes in season 2 and 3. While some of the newer episodes do have comparable AP attainable it is not the norm and everyone can access them equally, the same cannot be said of season 1 achievements that unfairly punish new players or those that for real life reasons could not play GW2 (deployment, year away, travelling etc) and so cannot get these achievement points at all.

I would like to propose that either we bring back a way to earn those achievement points for LS1 or the complete removal of achievement points on any and all achievements that are not open to all players regardless of when they joined.

GW2 is about competing on the same basic footing, which is why PvP has the amulet system and at lvl 1 you’re on an even start with all others whether you started 5 years ago or yesterday, I think this should extend to achievement points while there is a leaderboard.

Remove the rewards and the tags too.

The biggest mistake made with AP points was adding the leader board in the first place. It is simply not possible for a new player to catch up, and it never will be unless they remove points from existing players. Originally you got a decent number of points simply from doing the dailies and monthlies. For a new player to catch up to a veteran player, all points from both the dailies and monthlies would have to be deleted. That is simply not going to happen as the outcry would be immediate and immense.

@apharma.3741 said:Currently living world season 1 achievements upto clockwork chaos (most about 200 AP) grant a huge amount of achievement points compared to many of the newer living story episodes in season 2 and 3. While some of the newer episodes do have comparable AP attainable it is not the norm and everyone can access them equally, the same cannot be said of season 1 achievements that unfairly punish new players or those that for real life reasons could not play GW2 (deployment, year away, travelling etc) and so cannot get these achievement points at all.

I would like to propose that either we bring back a way to earn those achievement points for LS1 or the complete removal of achievement points on any and all achievements that are not open to all players regardless of when they joined.

GW2 is about competing on the same basic footing, which is why PvP has the amulet system and at lvl 1 you’re on an even start with all others whether you started 5 years ago or yesterday, I think this should extend to achievement points while there is a leaderboard.

I do hope they make that content available somehow for those that didn't get to experience it. Having said that, you win nothing by having more AP than someone else. In addition, it isn't like Season 1 AP are the single thing a new player would be lacking, there are dailies, the old monthlies, etc. that any long time player could have done and a new player would have missed. In a sense, it is no different.

So, as I said, I do hope that newer players get a chance to experience the Season 1 story/content at some point but I don't think it is unfair from an AP perspective. They aren't automatically entitled to achieve anything that may have been time-limited. If it were a case where a limited time event gave the highest stat gear and no event ever offered it again, that would be unfair. You have no advantage over any other player based on the amount of AP you have.

@YoukiNeko.6047 said:

@ReaverKane.7598 said:

@Pifil.5193 said:

@apharma.3741 said:Currently living world season 1 achievements upto clockwork chaos (most about 200 AP) grant a huge amount of achievement points compared to many of the newer living story episodes in season 2 and 3. While some of the newer episodes do have comparable AP attainable it is not the norm and everyone can access them equally, the same cannot be said of season 1 achievements that unfairly punish new players or those that for real life reasons could not play GW2 (deployment, year away, travelling etc) and so cannot get these achievement points at all.

I would like to propose that either we bring back a way to earn those achievement points for LS1 or the complete removal of achievement points on any and all achievements that are not open to all players regardless of when they joined.

GW2 is about competing on the same basic footing, which is why PvP has the amulet system and at lvl 1 you’re on an even start with all others whether you started 5 years ago or yesterday, I think this should extend to achievement points while there is a leaderboard.

Yeah, that wouldn't be controversial.

@Pifil.5193 said:Why not just remove the Leaderboard then? Not everything needs to be a competition and if making it "fair" for people who didn't do the content for whatever reason means taking away APs from those who actually did that content, well, then I'd rather they just remove the Leaderboards completely.

I'm down for that. A leaderboard for fake internet points is just silly anyway.

Though, full solution to what's being asked:Move (not remove) the achievements to the Historical section.Remove the AP for achievements that are moved.Increase the daily AP cap by the amount of points removed.

AP doesn't have give any advantage whatsoever. Yes there's the armor/weapon skins, but those are purely cosmetic and still going to be reachable for all eventually. So really some veterans having more AP than newer people is hardly an issue.Now not being able to experience the events and story of LS1 is whats sad.

Again? Latecomers have gotten just about every achieve reward/gem shop item from S1 already and Dreamy made an excellent movie. Accept the fact S1 wont be back. It was a 1 time thing and you actually HAD to be there (regardless of excuse why you weren't) not sure why folks just can't accept this. I agree though, remove the leader board, then points wont matter for those that seem to have a problem with them.

Let's see. FOR SCIENCE!Season 4Daybreak:130

Season 3One path ends: 123Flashpoint: 125The Head of the Snake: 97A Crack in the Ice: 83Rising Flames: 147Out of the Shadows: 73Total: 648, Average: 108 (6)Duration: July 2016 - July 2017 (12)~54 / month

Season 2Point of No Return: 85Seeds of Truth: 80Tangled Path: 50Echoes of the Past: 75The Dragon's Reach, Part 2: 105The Dragon's Reach, Part 1: 65Entanglement: 50Gates of Maguuma: 38Total: 548, Average: 68.5 (8)Duration: July 2014 - January 2015 (7)~78 / month

Season 1Battle for Lion's Arch: 102Escape from Lion's Arch: 109Edge of the Mists: 40The Origins of Madness: 135Fractured: 95The Nightmares Within: 68The Tower of Nightmares: 76Twilight Assault: 25Clockwork Chaos: 195Queen Jennah's Jubilee: 174Bazaar of the Four Winds: 255Sky Pirates: 197Dragon Bash: 195Secret of Southsun: 135Flame and Frost: 147Total: 1948, Average: 130 (15)Duration: January 2013 - March 2014 (14)~139 / month

Note: some achievements were combined, for example the Flame and Frost contains achievements from all releases.

It appears that Season 1 had double the amount of achievements than Season 2 and Season 3 even less.

For comparison, Path of Fire added 1168 achievements total, approximately double the amount of achievements we got from Season 3 but far less than Season 1.

@maddoctor.2738 said:For comparison, Path of Fire added 1168 achievements total, approximately double the amount of achievements we got from Season 3 but far less than Season 1.

And the point is? Different content gives different amount of achievements through time?

There is no way to remove the Achievement Points because some of the rewards are Wardrobe/Account unlocks, and such things are not able to be removed from an account.Removing the Leaderboard would be fine, though probably pointless, as those interested in the Leaderboard would just use gw2efficiency, or some such app.I don't think there's a solution to the issue, really. Old content can't be brought back in its same state, and new content, even content made to replace old content, would (in the game's eyes) have new Achievement Points to be obtained. There isn't a way for the game to tell who to allow access to this new content, and who wouldn't be allowed to access it. And...even if there were a way to tell, the players would be upset that there was new content only some players could access.

@YoukiNeko.6047 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:For comparison, Path of Fire added 1168 achievements total, approximately double the amount of achievements we got from Season 3 but far less than Season 1.

The point is the Seasons are giving less and less achievements / month as times goes on and an expansion gave near half the amount of points that a living world Season did.

@"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:There isn't a way for the game to tell who to allow access to this new content, and who wouldn't be allowed to access it. And...even if there way a way to tell, the players would be upset that there was new content only some player could access.

There are also the 236 "Retired Achievements" that require no content. 16 of those are PVP tournament rewards, so let's remove those, we have 220 AP that are no longer obtainable AND there is no content for them, unlike Season 1 achievements. I think increasing the daily cap by up to 220 (based on how many a player is missing) is a great way to re-add the Retired Achievements to the game.

As for Season 1 achievements, if they add the achievements back in any way, it's admission that Season 1 will never come back so I don't really like that.

Imagine how dumb I feel because I was around those days, but never bothered to do 90% of those achievements.

@Rauderi.8706 said:

@Pifil.5193 said:Why not just remove the Leaderboard then? Not everything needs to be a competition and if making it "fair" for people who didn't do the content for whatever reason means taking away APs from those who actually did that content, well, then I'd rather they just remove the Leaderboards completely.

OK, so after a quick look at gw2efficiency.com I see that I have 22,149 AP at the moment. Of those 3,108 come from Historical Achievements (which includes the ones that come from WvW seasons, the first couple of years of holiday events and all other no longer available content).

The proposal is to take away those 3,108 Achievement Points and... increase the daily AP cap by some amount (GW2 efficiency currently lists 5872 AP in Historical Achievements). Now I've already received the AP Rewards from those achievement points up to and including the 22,000 AP reward and I can't get the rewards twice so when you remove my Historical AP I'll effectively be 3,108 AP in debt to the AP system and the next AP reward chest will come after I reach 22,500 AP which will take me another 3,419 Achievement Points to reach. I gotta say I don't like the sound of that.

If they just want to remove all Historical AP from the total in the Leaderboard system so that in my case the Leaderboard would show 22,149 - 3,108 = 19,041 AP then that'd be fine with me, I frankly couldn't care less about the Leaderboard. I'm sure others would be annoyed about that though.

@apharma.3741 said:Currently living world season 1 achievements upto clockwork chaos (most about 200 AP) grant a huge amount of achievement points compared to many of the newer living story episodes in season 2 and 3. While some of the newer episodes do have comparable AP attainable it is not the norm and everyone can access them equally, the same cannot be said of season 1 achievements that unfairly punish new players or those that for real life reasons could not play GW2 (deployment, year away, travelling etc) and so cannot get these achievement points at all.

I would like to propose that either we bring back a way to earn those achievement points for LS1 or the complete removal of achievement points on any and all achievements that are not open to all players regardless of when they joined.

GW2 is about competing on the same basic footing, which is why PvP has the amulet system and at lvl 1 you’re on an even start with all others whether you started 5 years ago or yesterday, I think this should extend to achievement points while there is a leaderboard.

I honestly can't tell if you're serious or trying to make fun of another forum member with this thread.

Either way, I agree that something should be done about AP. I don't give a damn about the leaderboards, precisely because I'm locked out of so many AP that I would never be able to get on them due to this very reason. But I would be happy if all achievements starting with LWS2 and forwards were rebalanced in how many AP they gave out for their effort. Hell it doesn't even have to be on the same level as LWS1 achievements were, but it should be more than the ptifiul amount we are given now fow how much work some of them require.

@OriOri.8724 said:

@apharma.3741 said:Currently living world season 1 achievements upto clockwork chaos (most about 200 AP) grant a huge amount of achievement points compared to many of the newer living story episodes in season 2 and 3. While some of the newer episodes do have comparable AP attainable it is not the norm and everyone can access them equally, the same cannot be said of season 1 achievements that unfairly punish new players or those that for real life reasons could not play GW2 (deployment, year away, travelling etc) and so cannot get these achievement points at all.

I would like to propose that either we bring back a way to earn those achievement points for LS1 or the complete removal of achievement points on any and all achievements that are not open to all players regardless of when they joined.

GW2 is about competing on the same basic footing, which is why PvP has the amulet system and at lvl 1 you’re on an even start with all others whether you started 5 years ago or yesterday, I think this should extend to achievement points while there is a leaderboard.

Why can’t I do both? The discussion has brought up a lot of views and ideas which is good to see.

We know ANet has no current plans for adding a replayable LS1. Even if they did, we can be pretty sure that any AP would be offered to both veterans and newer players. I can't imagine that there's any way to adjust the imbalance. There just aren't any "fair" options.

If lower AP for LS3 was an oversight, then sure, I would imagine ANet would want to adjust things. But why would any of us imagine that ANet hasn't even considered this before? Do we really think that they didn't read any of the posts made about the lack of AP during the content drought, the smaller numbers in LS2, in HoT, in LS3, etc?

There's clearly some significant detail(s) that we lack to explain why AP is less generous these days.

As for giving newer players a chance to catch up, I'm not at all sure that there's any fair way to do that. It's never wise to remove rewards from players, except in the most extreme or urgent circumstances (and I doubt any of us think this counts as 'extreme' or 'urgent'). I doubt any of us think it's wise to just gift 2.5-4.0k AP to new players just to help them earn spots on the leaderboards. And can you imagine the outcry if ANet introduced content to the game that added say 5.0k of AP to the game, allowing new players to get 100% but veterans to get only half of it?

Put another way, how exactly would ANet go about making more AP available to new players, without making Veterans feel that they were given the shaft?

While I wouldn't mind if they removed the leaderboard, there are people who have put a tremendous amount of time and work into being in the top 100. I'm in the top 300 and it was even work to get there. While I don't look at the leader board often or care about it, pissing off some of the most dedicated players in the game is probably not the best course of action either. They'd end up feeling like they've wasted countless hours. It's a lose/lose situation imo.