Question for Deadeye users — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Question for Deadeye users

BeepBoopBop.5403BeepBoopBop.5403 Member ✭✭✭

Why do you do it when most Daredevil and core S/D builds are just better

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Comments

  • Asur.9178Asur.9178 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 4

    I can answer for them:

    • Roleplaying...I like roleplaying.
    • Pew pew pew...I feel like I'm doing a lot when I actually am not.
    • I'm a try hard that wants to stand out and be a rebel by crippling myself, because I choose not to play meta or something more globally accepted as better.
  • Zacchary.6183Zacchary.6183 Member ✭✭✭

    @BeepBoopBop.5403 said:
    Why do you do it when most Daredevil and core S/D builds are just better

    Those builds mainly work in high-tier PvP and are near useless everywhere else. PvP is not even a third of the entire game.

    A good player can succeed with whatever is meta. A great player can succeed with whatever they want.
    [Vial of Salt]
    PSA: Deadeye isn't bad, you're just bad at using it.
    These DE tips are still relevant.

  • BeepBoopBop.5403BeepBoopBop.5403 Member ✭✭✭

    @Zacchary.6183 said:

    @BeepBoopBop.5403 said:
    Why do you do it when most Daredevil and core S/D builds are just better

    Those builds mainly work in high-tier PvP and are near useless everywhere else. PvP is not even a third of the entire game.

    are you trying to tell me that Deadeye is better for PvE cuz its not lol

  • Volrath.1473Volrath.1473 Member ✭✭

    @BeepBoopBop.5403 said:
    Why do you do it when most Daredevil and core S/D builds are just better

    because i want to. tks for asking

  • Zacchary.6183Zacchary.6183 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 5

    @BeepBoopBop.5403 said:

    @Zacchary.6183 said:

    @BeepBoopBop.5403 said:
    Why do you do it when most Daredevil and core S/D builds are just better

    Those builds mainly work in high-tier PvP and are near useless everywhere else. PvP is not even a third of the entire game.

    are you trying to tell me that Deadeye is better for PvE cuz its not lol

    Most daredevil builds and core builds have to spec glassy and tend to die pretty fast in HoT and PoF maps because of how numerous the enemies are and how hard everything hits. A deadeye doesn't need to spec glassy to hit just as hard as core or DrD because the spec has many ways to boost damage. They have access to burst condition cleanse which is better than clearing one at a time vs condition bursts. They can also take advantage of most core thief's traits (mainly steal traits) better than Daredevil with Renewing Gaze. They are also able to keep a group buffed with their stolen skills since every one of them has a boon attached to it and last longer with more malice. DE 333 turns Deadeye into a support build which goes well with improv, Wanderer stats and leadership runes. That gives you 72% boon duration 23k HP and 2.7k armor. In fact, you could probably tank with that.

    That kind of stuff is impossible with Core or DrD.

    A good player can succeed with whatever is meta. A great player can succeed with whatever they want.
    [Vial of Salt]
    PSA: Deadeye isn't bad, you're just bad at using it.
    These DE tips are still relevant.

  • I usually alternate builds, because Power DD and Deadeye are very similar and it is easy to switch between them. But when I'm on deadeye, it is for one of three reasons:

    1: I'd rather attack at range. This is useful against treasure mushrooms, or really dangerous bounties. The ability to hunker and camp at 1500 is really useful if I want to stay alive, or if I don't want to try too hard.

    2: I need to buff a group. The Deadeye is a pretty good group buffer, giving an entire team maximum might, fury, swiftness, and vigor. If I am a commander or on a team that lacks buffs, I swap over to deadeye and start doling them out.

    3: I need go cover a wide area. Events like the wurm pre at Ember Bay require you to move around a lot, and the wide range of the deadeye means I can camp at the center and just change targets.

    I don't have opinions. I only have facts I can't adequately prove.

  • Dahkeus.8243Dahkeus.8243 Member ✭✭✭

    For anyone new to thief, I imagine that the lower skill floor of something like a P/P thief can make PvP a lot easier to get into than trying to learn something like D/P right off the start.

    Even when using rifle, Deadeye has a more straight forward role: Hang around big team fights and pick on squishy targets. Since it's not based on knowing when and how to rotate, that's a bit easier.

    There's also just the satisfaction of blowing someone up quickly,which also comes easier for Deadeye.

  • bloodymarx.9052bloodymarx.9052 Member
    edited December 5

    Because after all these years, I'm bored with both daredevil and core thief. Even after taking some nice longer breaks.
    I mostly do WvW, and there I either run core or deadeye. But I enjoy the latter more, because it's at least the newest. Also nice to give some better group support if there are enough people around. Plus in my experience, in many cases if enemies see I'm a deadeye, they are more likely to underestimate me and be more careless. That's often useful.
    I fully expect to be bored with deadeye too by whenever the next elite spec will come, because to be honest, both of the current elite specs are rather unimaginative.

  • Elxdark.9702Elxdark.9702 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 5

    fun? maybe? for some people is fun to play deadeye.
    If you don't like it or find it extremely inferior to core/DD it doesn't change the fact that some people enjoy playing it, and we could say the same with the other classes/builds.

    Also as bloodymarx said, after many years of playing the same buildd/spec people got bored and wanted to try the new thing which in this case is Deadeye.

  • BeepBoopBop.5403BeepBoopBop.5403 Member ✭✭✭

    @Elxdark.9702 said:
    fun? maybe? for some people is fun to play deadeye.
    If you don't like it or find it extremely inferior to core/DD it doesn't change the fact that some people enjoy playing it, and we could say the same with the other classes/builds.

    Also as bloodymarx said, after many years of playing the same buildd/spec people got bored and wanted to try the new thing which in this case is Deadeye.

    If gimping yourself is fun, I'd prefer a 1 handed DD in my party than Sindrener on DE

  • Elxdark.9702Elxdark.9702 Member ✭✭✭

    @BeepBoopBop.5403 said:

    @Elxdark.9702 said:
    fun? maybe? for some people is fun to play deadeye.
    If you don't like it or find it extremely inferior to core/DD it doesn't change the fact that some people enjoy playing it, and we could say the same with the other classes/builds.

    Also as bloodymarx said, after many years of playing the same buildd/spec people got bored and wanted to try the new thing which in this case is Deadeye.

    If gimping yourself is fun, I'd prefer a 1 handed DD in my party than Sindrener on DE

    Sindrener doesn't like DE so he will never play it I guess so, but it doesn't mean every thief in DE will be dead weight.
    I've played a lot of games this season on DE and while it's weak against most classes it's still useful in some situations and of course you need to put way more effort to make deadeye work in comparison to DD or core thief.

    It's not gimping, it's trying new things new playstyles in this already staled game, if you want to keep playing dd for another 2 years then it's fine if it's what you like I can't say anything, but you need to understand some people enjoy playing builds/classes/specs that are not meta.

  • MUDse.7623MUDse.7623 Member ✭✭✭

    i do play deadeye cause i am bored of daredevil and you can play alot better hide and seek in WvW with deadeye. i also enjoy marking people and stay in stealth watching them and keeping the mark up and then killing them when i get bored, cause most people in wvw are that bad it really doesnt matter what you do play and i have more fun playing deadeye.

    @BeepBoopBop.5403 said:

    @Elxdark.9702 said:
    fun? maybe? for some people is fun to play deadeye.
    If you don't like it or find it extremely inferior to core/DD it doesn't change the fact that some people enjoy playing it, and we could say the same with the other classes/builds.

    Also as bloodymarx said, after many years of playing the same buildd/spec people got bored and wanted to try the new thing which in this case is Deadeye.

    If gimping yourself is fun, I'd prefer a 1 handed DD in my party than Sindrener on DE

    when i walk with an enemy blob and just DJ / backstab oneshot one (yes still happens ALOT more than it should) they mostly react way too late and i get the stomp done. with daredevil or core the visible time is at least 3 seconds so they do react alot more. also when like 20 scouts try to get you ot of their keep / tower / smc and use some funny anti stealth traps you will have alot harder time as core/dd than with DE. last week i was in SMC upper floor as DE and a DD from our server was also there. i had to rez that poor DD 6 times while killing the scouts till he finally switched to DE cause they kept placing an anti stealth trap + ranger traps on his body so i was able to dogge ranger traps while not dogging into the anti stealth one to rez but it gets triggered when he stands up, he never survived that reveal time on DD so i guess DD was kitten there not DE.

  • kash.9213kash.9213 Member ✭✭

    Some people are going to play DE or rifle off and on for the same reasons people played core builds or kept s/d warm on the back burner. It's another build with skills and traits to mess around with until devs sort stuff out and people are going to squeeze some kind of optimal build out of it, though it's going to be harder this time around then it was for staff or whatever. I know you're mostly fishing for answers to make crass responses but that's the simple answer, people like to mess around with builds, same reason for alt characters.

    Northern Shiverpeaks

  • Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 5

    @BeepBoopBop.5403 said:
    Why do you do it when most Daredevil and core S/D builds are just better

    What makes you say that specifically? Most people who claim things forget about various situations, combos, and utilities. And just roll with what
    everyone else has been saying.

    I play deadeye for a number of reasons. Here's three.

    1. Is people get MAD when you kill them with a specialization that is called weak by a community that couldn't be bothered with just getting good, when it really isn't that weak or bad if you're used to how Core thief behaved back in 2012.

    2. It feels less button smashy. A well timed interrupt or cantrip from a deadeye who made a build that suits his playstyle is a death sentence to anyone running a meta pvp build. Headshot, Binding Shadow, swap weapon crouch DJ combined with sigils that increases damage on targets that are knocked down for example. Where with Daredevil and core thief, you just don't have the burst to completely murder someone who's been CCed before they can break out of it. Daredevil has pulmonary impact, but there's a pretty good chance it's gonna get nerfed (like how they nerfed everything in thief since 2012.)

    3. Where Daredevil is all about constant pressure, and core thief is about being a cheeky kitten while pressuring. I love how Deadeye is a cheeky doom timer if they don't kill you in the first second they caught you out. And also how you don't necessarily want to be smashing your face against someone else in melee, but you can sure as hell do it just fine while being frighteningly tanky.

    That being said... it's not too hard to fight a Daredevil with Deadeye and win. And that was before Daredevil's slipperyness got nerfed. Now I just gotta count your dodges if you take something to make you slippery, CC, and kill.

    I also learned that a lot of daredevils forget about their utilities, or what the core thief utilities were. So... a lot of fun was had with using traps, and better yet... infiltrator's signet, assassin's signet proced, and a backstab at 7 Malice, 25 might, and 25 stacks of precision and might. He had several stacks of vulnerability on him. The daredevil died immediately.

  • Sobx.1758Sobx.1758 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 5

    @Zacchary.6183 said:

    @BeepBoopBop.5403 said:
    Why do you do it when most Daredevil and core S/D builds are just better

    Those builds mainly work in high-tier PvP and are near useless everywhere else. PvP is not even a third of the entire game.

    If you're trying to say that these builds work only in high-tier pvp and fail at lower level pvp then that's just plain wrong lol

    @Zacchary.6183 said:

    @BeepBoopBop.5403 said:

    @Zacchary.6183 said:

    @BeepBoopBop.5403 said:
    Why do you do it when most Daredevil and core S/D builds are just better

    Those builds mainly work in high-tier PvP and are near useless everywhere else. PvP is not even a third of the entire game.

    are you trying to tell me that Deadeye is better for PvE cuz its not lol

    Most daredevil builds and core builds have to spec glassy and tend to die pretty fast in HoT and PoF maps because of how numerous the enemies are and how hard everything hits.
    (...)
    They can also take advantage of most core thief's traits (mainly steal traits) better than Daredevil with Renewing Gaze.

    That's also just plain wrong. Aside from the initial ""shock"" at HoT map, I had no problem with playing core/DD builds in both expansions.

    They are also able to keep a group buffed with their stolen skills since every one of them has a boon attached to it and last longer with more malice. DE 333 turns Deadeye into a support build which goes well with improv, Wanderer stats and leadership runes. That gives you 72% boon duration 23k HP and 2.7k armor. In fact, you could probably tank with that.

    That kind of stuff is impossible with Core or DrD.

    There are better supporting classes/builds and better tanking classes/builds, so who cares that it can do something better than DD, when it's still sub-par...?

    And that's why the first answer in this thread was correct.

  • BeepBoopBop.5403BeepBoopBop.5403 Member ✭✭✭

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Zacchary.6183 said:

    @BeepBoopBop.5403 said:
    Why do you do it when most Daredevil and core S/D builds are just better

    Those builds mainly work in high-tier PvP and are near useless everywhere else. PvP is not even a third of the entire game.

    If you're trying to say that these builds work only in high-tier pvp and fail at lower level pvp then that's just plain wrong lol

    @Zacchary.6183 said:

    @BeepBoopBop.5403 said:

    @Zacchary.6183 said:

    @BeepBoopBop.5403 said:
    Why do you do it when most Daredevil and core S/D builds are just better

    Those builds mainly work in high-tier PvP and are near useless everywhere else. PvP is not even a third of the entire game.

    are you trying to tell me that Deadeye is better for PvE cuz its not lol

    Most daredevil builds and core builds have to spec glassy and tend to die pretty fast in HoT and PoF maps because of how numerous the enemies are and how hard everything hits.
    (...)
    They can also take advantage of most core thief's traits (mainly steal traits) better than Daredevil with Renewing Gaze.

    That's also just plain wrong.

    They are also able to keep a group buffed with their stolen skills since every one of them has a boon attached to it and last longer with more malice. DE 333 turns Deadeye into a support build which goes well with improv, Wanderer stats and leadership runes. That gives you 72% boon duration 23k HP and 2.7k armor. In fact, you could probably tank with that.

    That kind of stuff is impossible with Core or DrD.

    There are better supporting classes/builds and better tanking classes/builds, so who cares that it can do something better than DD, but is still sub-par...?

    Literally my thoughts

  • BeepBoopBop.5403BeepBoopBop.5403 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 5

    @Zacchary.6183 said:

    @BeepBoopBop.5403 said:

    @Zacchary.6183 said:

    @BeepBoopBop.5403 said:
    Why do you do it when most Daredevil and core S/D builds are just better

    Those builds mainly work in high-tier PvP and are near useless everywhere else. PvP is not even a third of the entire game.

    are you trying to tell me that Deadeye is better for PvE cuz its not lol

    DE 333 turns Deadeye into a support build which goes well with improv, Wanderer stats and leadership runes. That gives you 72% boon duration 23k HP and 2.7k armor. In fact, you could probably tank with that.

    That kind of stuff is impossible with Core or DrD.

    Inside the mind of a Deadeye folks. Wanderer leadership rune Deadeye for that yummy team boon support!

    jk stop trying to make Deadeye work

    Also if you wanted a build that can tank, have you heard of acro staff Daredevil lol

  • Mahou.3924Mahou.3924 Member ✭✭

    Because I can and want to. Why the heck would I care what some random "forum warrior" thinks? Especially, with your kind of low blows and sneering remarks.

  • BeepBoopBop.5403BeepBoopBop.5403 Member ✭✭✭

    @Asur.9178 said:
    I can answer for them:

    • Roleplaying...I like roleplaying.
    • Pew pew pew...I feel like I'm doing a lot when I actually am not.
    • I'm a try hard that wants to stand out and be a rebel by crippling myself, because I choose not to play meta or something more globally accepted as better.

    After hearing all these answers you really hit the money bud

  • BeepBoopBop.5403BeepBoopBop.5403 Member ✭✭✭

    @Mahou.3924 said:
    Because I can and want to. Why the heck would I care what some random "forum warrior" thinks? Especially, with your kind of low blows and sneering remarks.

    You tell me, guess you cared enough to post :) ty for your time, care and attention

  • Zacchary.6183Zacchary.6183 Member ✭✭✭

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Zacchary.6183 said:

    @BeepBoopBop.5403 said:
    Why do you do it when most Daredevil and core S/D builds are just better

    Those builds mainly work in high-tier PvP and are near useless everywhere else. PvP is not even a third of the entire game.

    If you're trying to say that these builds work only in high-tier pvp and fail at lower level pvp then that's just plain wrong lol

    If you are going to completely omit the qualifiers from my statements, then sure. But the reality is that there are many more builds that perform better than meta in other parts of the game. Considering low tier pvp, d/d conditions can beat any other thief build any day.

    @Zacchary.6183 said:

    @BeepBoopBop.5403 said:

    @Zacchary.6183 said:

    @BeepBoopBop.5403 said:
    Why do you do it when most Daredevil and core S/D builds are just better

    Those builds mainly work in high-tier PvP and are near useless everywhere else. PvP is not even a third of the entire game.

    are you trying to tell me that Deadeye is better for PvE cuz its not lol

    Most daredevil builds and core builds have to spec glassy and tend to die pretty fast in HoT and PoF maps because of how numerous the enemies are and how hard everything hits.
    (...)
    They can also take advantage of most core thief's traits (mainly steal traits) better than Daredevil with Renewing Gaze.

    That's also just plain wrong. Aside from the initial ""shock"" at HoT map, I had no problem with playing core/DD builds in both expansions.

    I had no "shock" with Deadeye because I was able to start off with tanky gear. And instead of running around getting aggro every step, I could park my kitten and move on when the area was cleared.

    They are also able to keep a group buffed with their stolen skills since every one of them has a boon attached to it and last longer with more malice. DE 333 turns Deadeye into a support build which goes well with improv, Wanderer stats and leadership runes. That gives you 72% boon duration 23k HP and 2.7k armor. In fact, you could probably tank with that.

    That kind of stuff is impossible with Core or DrD.

    There are better supporting classes/builds and better tanking classes/builds, so who cares that it can do something better than DD, when it's still sub-par...?

    And that's why the first answer in this thread was correct.

    Compared to other professions, yeah, but I was comparing Deadeye to Daredevil and core.

    A good player can succeed with whatever is meta. A great player can succeed with whatever they want.
    [Vial of Salt]
    PSA: Deadeye isn't bad, you're just bad at using it.
    These DE tips are still relevant.

  • Jurij.4625Jurij.4625 Member

    I love to play Daredevil because I like everything about this elite specialization - from rifle, to cantrips and mark mechanics - and I really don't care which class or elite specialization is better or worse. If I like it, than it's the best for me. It's just a game.

  • Sobx.1758Sobx.1758 Member ✭✭✭

    @Zacchary.6183 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Zacchary.6183 said:

    @BeepBoopBop.5403 said:
    Why do you do it when most Daredevil and core S/D builds are just better

    Those builds mainly work in high-tier PvP and are near useless everywhere else. PvP is not even a third of the entire game.

    If you're trying to say that these builds work only in high-tier pvp and fail at lower level pvp then that's just plain wrong lol

    If you are going to completely omit the qualifiers from my statements, then sure. But the reality is that there are many more builds that perform better than meta in other parts of the game. Considering low tier pvp, d/d conditions can beat any other thief build any day.

    Yeah, in other parts of the game... And none of those better builds contain rifle in them.
    And kitten is this "low tier pvp" argument, give me a break :D And no, as far as I like d/d thief for it's "assassin-ish vibe", it's definitely not the best pvp weapon setup. "Low tier" or not, lmao.

    @Zacchary.6183 said:

    @BeepBoopBop.5403 said:

    @Zacchary.6183 said:

    @BeepBoopBop.5403 said:
    Why do you do it when most Daredevil and core S/D builds are just better

    Those builds mainly work in high-tier PvP and are near useless everywhere else. PvP is not even a third of the entire game.

    are you trying to tell me that Deadeye is better for PvE cuz its not lol

    Most daredevil builds and core builds have to spec glassy and tend to die pretty fast in HoT and PoF maps because of how numerous the enemies are and how hard everything hits.
    (...)
    They can also take advantage of most core thief's traits (mainly steal traits) better than Daredevil with Renewing Gaze.

    That's also just plain wrong. Aside from the initial ""shock"" at HoT map, I had no problem with playing core/DD builds in both expansions.

    I had no "shock" with Deadeye because I was able to start off with tanky gear. And instead of running around getting aggro every step, I could park my kitten and move on when the area was cleared.

    You had no "shock with deadeye", because there was no deadeye at HoT release (and that's probably the only open world difficulty level jump there was in this game), but nice try.
    Also DD kills groups of mobs faster AND easier than DE, but keep parking whatever and wherever you want ^_^

    They are also able to keep a group buffed with their stolen skills since every one of them has a boon attached to it and last longer with more malice. DE 333 turns Deadeye into a support build which goes well with improv, Wanderer stats and leadership runes. That gives you 72% boon duration 23k HP and 2.7k armor. In fact, you could probably tank with that.

    That kind of stuff is impossible with Core or DrD.

    There are better supporting classes/builds and better tanking classes/builds, so who cares that it can do something better than DD, when it's still sub-par...?

    And that's why the first answer in this thread was correct.

    Compared to other professions, yeah, but I was comparing Deadeye to Daredevil and core.

    Great, still irrelevant for the state of the game. If you want to support, there are better chocies, if you want to tank -there are better choices.
    ...aaand we're back to the first answer of this thread being spot on.

  • Urejt.5648Urejt.5648 Member ✭✭

    i play rifle and iam top100 thief. i do it because rifle is imba strong. U insta kill necros and guards. u need `10 sec break to kill druid and 10 second break to kill war. It is sick killing machine with huge range.

  • Turk.5460Turk.5460 Member ✭✭✭

    Many matchups in WvW roaming are much easier to deal with as DE using Rifle. All forms of necro, warrior, engineer, and guardian become free kills. Almost everything seems easier to juke and kite, really. The only real threats seem to be Longbow Rangers and Mirages, if they're played well enough. Even fighting D/P Thieves is pretty much the same difficulty as if I were playing D/P or S/D myself, it's just a different flow of battle. Engage is key for fighting other thieves, I will blow shadowstep to get in range to land mark and start the burst. Often improv will just give that shadowstep back, anyway.

    Fort Aspenwood - [TLC], [UNIV], [ShW], [FUR]
    Jekkies, Thief/Warrior Roamerater

  • Zacchary.6183Zacchary.6183 Member ✭✭✭

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Zacchary.6183 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Zacchary.6183 said:

    @BeepBoopBop.5403 said:
    Why do you do it when most Daredevil and core S/D builds are just better

    Those builds mainly work in high-tier PvP and are near useless everywhere else. PvP is not even a third of the entire game.

    If you're trying to say that these builds work only in high-tier pvp and fail at lower level pvp then that's just plain wrong lol

    If you are going to completely omit the qualifiers from my statements, then sure. But the reality is that there are many more builds that perform better than meta in other parts of the game. Considering low tier pvp, d/d conditions can beat any other thief build any day.

    Yeah, in other parts of the game... And none of those better builds contain rifle in them.
    And kitten is this "low tier pvp" argument, give me a break :D And no, as far as I like d/d thief for it's "assassin-ish vibe", it's definitely not the best pvp weapon setup. "Low tier" or not, lmao.

    Lol, thief does not have enough condition clear nor HP to deal with constant cripple, and constant 20+ stacks of poison and bleeding. I can attest to this, since d/d conditions was what I was maining when I played pvp back then.

    @Zacchary.6183 said:

    @BeepBoopBop.5403 said:

    @Zacchary.6183 said:

    @BeepBoopBop.5403 said:
    Why do you do it when most Daredevil and core S/D builds are just better

    Those builds mainly work in high-tier PvP and are near useless everywhere else. PvP is not even a third of the entire game.

    are you trying to tell me that Deadeye is better for PvE cuz its not lol

    Most daredevil builds and core builds have to spec glassy and tend to die pretty fast in HoT and PoF maps because of how numerous the enemies are and how hard everything hits.
    (...)
    They can also take advantage of most core thief's traits (mainly steal traits) better than Daredevil with Renewing Gaze.

    That's also just plain wrong. Aside from the initial ""shock"" at HoT map, I had no problem with playing core/DD builds in both expansions.

    I had no "shock" with Deadeye because I was able to start off with tanky gear. And instead of running around getting aggro every step, I could park my kitten and move on when the area was cleared.

    You had no "shock with deadeye", because there was no deadeye at HoT release (and that's probably the only open world difficulty level jump there was in this game), but nice try.
    Also DD kills groups of mobs faster AND easier than DE, but keep parking whatever and wherever you want ^_^

    That's if the DD never gets hit, which becomes harder to accomplish the more you are fighting. Not disagreeing that the DrD is better at AoE, but DE is just tankier.

    They are also able to keep a group buffed with their stolen skills since every one of them has a boon attached to it and last longer with more malice. DE 333 turns Deadeye into a support build which goes well with improv, Wanderer stats and leadership runes. That gives you 72% boon duration 23k HP and 2.7k armor. In fact, you could probably tank with that.

    That kind of stuff is impossible with Core or DrD.

    There are better supporting classes/builds and better tanking classes/builds, so who cares that it can do something better than DD, when it's still sub-par...?

    And that's why the first answer in this thread was correct.

    Compared to other professions, yeah, but I was comparing Deadeye to Daredevil and core.

    Great, still irrelevant for the state of the game. If you want to support, there are better chocies, if you want to tank -there are better choices.
    ...aaand we're back to the first answer of this thread being spot on.

    Lol that answer comes from someone who has never played DE. Daredevil is boring and does nothing special for the profession or group play besides making d/d conditions meta in Raids. I am not going to blame him for not knowing how it works, seeing as how it is no way comparable to Daredevil in terms of gameplay. But statistically, Deadeye has more uses and role variety than Daredevil.

    A good player can succeed with whatever is meta. A great player can succeed with whatever they want.
    [Vial of Salt]
    PSA: Deadeye isn't bad, you're just bad at using it.
    These DE tips are still relevant.

  • BeepBoopBop.5403BeepBoopBop.5403 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 7

    @Zacchary.6183 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Zacchary.6183 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Zacchary.6183 said:

    @BeepBoopBop.5403 said:
    Why do you do it when most Daredevil and core S/D builds are just better

    Those builds mainly work in high-tier PvP and are near useless everywhere else. PvP is not even a third of the entire game.

    If you're trying to say that these builds work only in high-tier pvp and fail at lower level pvp then that's just plain wrong lol

    If you are going to completely omit the qualifiers from my statements, then sure. But the reality is that there are many more builds that perform better than meta in other parts of the game. Considering low tier pvp, d/d conditions can beat any other thief build any day.

    Yeah, in other parts of the game... And none of those better builds contain rifle in them.
    And kitten is this "low tier pvp" argument, give me a break :D And no, as far as I like d/d thief for it's "assassin-ish vibe", it's definitely not the best pvp weapon setup. "Low tier" or not, lmao.

    Lol, thief does not have enough condition clear nor HP to deal with constant cripple, and constant 20+ stacks of poison and bleeding. I can attest to this, since d/d conditions was what I was maining when I played pvp back then.

    Umm, were you in bronze or something lol? And d/d condition was never all that strong and was counterable by good rotations, s/d condition was far stronger, but they're both irrelevant now because of nerfs from recent patches.

    @Zacchary.6183 said:

    @BeepBoopBop.5403 said:

    @Zacchary.6183 said:

    @BeepBoopBop.5403 said:
    Why do you do it when most Daredevil and core S/D builds are just better

    Those builds mainly work in high-tier PvP and are near useless everywhere else. PvP is not even a third of the entire game.

    are you trying to tell me that Deadeye is better for PvE cuz its not lol

    Most daredevil builds and core builds have to spec glassy and tend to die pretty fast in HoT and PoF maps because of how numerous the enemies are and how hard everything hits.
    (...)
    They can also take advantage of most core thief's traits (mainly steal traits) better than Daredevil with Renewing Gaze.

    That's also just plain wrong. Aside from the initial ""shock"" at HoT map, I had no problem with playing core/DD builds in both expansions.

    I had no "shock" with Deadeye because I was able to start off with tanky gear. And instead of running around getting aggro every step, I could park my kitten and move on when the area was cleared.

    You had no "shock with deadeye", because there was no deadeye at HoT release (and that's probably the only open world difficulty level jump there was in this game), but nice try.
    Also DD kills groups of mobs faster AND easier than DE, but keep parking whatever and wherever you want ^_^

    That's if the DD never gets hit, which becomes harder to accomplish the more you are fighting. Not disagreeing that the DrD is better at AoE, but DE is just tankier.

    Please explain how DE is so much tankier. All they have are 5s protection that is unpredictably applied with the Perfectionist trait, and the Iron Sights trait that reduces damage by 15% ONLY FROM MARKED TARGETS. Thief does not sustain by damage reduction and healing, it sustains by not getting hit. How much evade uptime does DE have vs DD?

    They are also able to keep a group buffed with their stolen skills since every one of them has a boon attached to it and last longer with more malice. DE 333 turns Deadeye into a support build which goes well with improv, Wanderer stats and leadership runes. That gives you 72% boon duration 23k HP and 2.7k armor. In fact, you could probably tank with that.

    That kind of stuff is impossible with Core or DrD.

    There are better supporting classes/builds and better tanking classes/builds, so who cares that it can do something better than DD, when it's still sub-par...?

    And that's why the first answer in this thread was correct.

    Compared to other professions, yeah, but I was comparing Deadeye to Daredevil and core.

    Great, still irrelevant for the state of the game. If you want to support, there are better chocies, if you want to tank -there are better choices.
    ...aaand we're back to the first answer of this thread being spot on.

    Lol that answer comes from someone who has never played DE. Daredevil is boring and does nothing special for the profession or group play besides making d/d conditions meta in Raids. I am not going to blame him for not knowing how it works, seeing as how it is no way comparable to Daredevil in terms of gameplay. But statistically, Deadeye has more uses and role variety than Daredevil.

    You may be right, but thief has been, is, and probably always will be a DPS class. All you bring is DPS, gank, plus one regardless of the game mode. If you try to do anything else, ok maybe you can put up 10s of protection on nearby allies with a niche Leadership Rune Wanderer DE build hooray. Now why the hell would anyone take that build over an Firebrand or a Boonshare Mesmer. Just because it has more possible "uses" does not mean they are practical at all. Just silly builds you can entertain yourself with in open world roleplaying PvE or maybe WvW roaming vs scouts and champion ranks.

  • Zacchary.6183Zacchary.6183 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 7

    @BeepBoopBop.5403 said:

    @Zacchary.6183 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Zacchary.6183 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Zacchary.6183 said:

    @BeepBoopBop.5403 said:
    Why do you do it when most Daredevil and core S/D builds are just better

    Those builds mainly work in high-tier PvP and are near useless everywhere else. PvP is not even a third of the entire game.

    If you're trying to say that these builds work only in high-tier pvp and fail at lower level pvp then that's just plain wrong lol

    If you are going to completely omit the qualifiers from my statements, then sure. But the reality is that there are many more builds that perform better than meta in other parts of the game. Considering low tier pvp, d/d conditions can beat any other thief build any day.

    Yeah, in other parts of the game... And none of those better builds contain rifle in them.
    And kitten is this "low tier pvp" argument, give me a break :D And no, as far as I like d/d thief for it's "assassin-ish vibe", it's definitely not the best pvp weapon setup. "Low tier" or not, lmao.

    Lol, thief does not have enough condition clear nor HP to deal with constant cripple, and constant 20+ stacks of poison and bleeding. I can attest to this, since d/d conditions was what I was maining when I played pvp back then.

    Umm, were you in bronze or something lol? And d/d condition was never all that strong and was counterable by good rotations, s/d condition was far stronger, but they're both irrelevant now because of nerfs from recent patches.

    This was back before and around HoT launch, before PvP Leagues were a thing. I only stepped in PvP when I wanted to test something but mainly did WvW. Even then, every thief I encountered couldn't kill me. I only had problems when I was fighting a necro, mesmer or 4+.

    @Zacchary.6183 said:

    @BeepBoopBop.5403 said:

    @Zacchary.6183 said:

    @BeepBoopBop.5403 said:
    Why do you do it when most Daredevil and core S/D builds are just better

    Those builds mainly work in high-tier PvP and are near useless everywhere else. PvP is not even a third of the entire game.

    are you trying to tell me that Deadeye is better for PvE cuz its not lol

    Most daredevil builds and core builds have to spec glassy and tend to die pretty fast in HoT and PoF maps because of how numerous the enemies are and how hard everything hits.
    (...)
    They can also take advantage of most core thief's traits (mainly steal traits) better than Daredevil with Renewing Gaze.

    That's also just plain wrong. Aside from the initial ""shock"" at HoT map, I had no problem with playing core/DD builds in both expansions.

    I had no "shock" with Deadeye because I was able to start off with tanky gear. And instead of running around getting aggro every step, I could park my kitten and move on when the area was cleared.

    You had no "shock with deadeye", because there was no deadeye at HoT release (and that's probably the only open world difficulty level jump there was in this game), but nice try.
    Also DD kills groups of mobs faster AND easier than DE, but keep parking whatever and wherever you want ^_^

    That's if the DD never gets hit, which becomes harder to accomplish the more you are fighting. Not disagreeing that the DrD is better at AoE, but DE is just tankier.

    Please explain how DE is so much tankier. All they have are 5s protection that is unpredictably applied with Perfectionist trait, and the Iron Sights trait reducing damage by 15% ONLY FROM MARKED TARGETS. Thief does not sustain by damage reduction and healing, it sustains by not getting hit. How much evade uptime does DE have vs DD?

    The spec has enough access to damage buffs that specing glassy is unnecessary. I use valk/marauder on a semi-support spec with Mug and Malicious Restoration which gives me 19k HP and enough healing and condition clear to survive. And with how often Mark can reset, it turns into a spot heal.

    EDIT: I also want to point out that at the beginning of my rotation I usually end up with 19-20 might and 2 malice and my unbuffed stats are 2.4k power, 50% crit rate and 199% crit damage. So it still deals quite a bit of damage. On world bosses I hit on average about 13k with DJ and I have seen as high as 25k.

    They are also able to keep a group buffed with their stolen skills since every one of them has a boon attached to it and last longer with more malice. DE 333 turns Deadeye into a support build which goes well with improv, Wanderer stats and leadership runes. That gives you 72% boon duration 23k HP and 2.7k armor. In fact, you could probably tank with that.

    That kind of stuff is impossible with Core or DrD.

    There are better supporting classes/builds and better tanking classes/builds, so who cares that it can do something better than DD, when it's still sub-par...?

    And that's why the first answer in this thread was correct.

    Compared to other professions, yeah, but I was comparing Deadeye to Daredevil and core.

    Great, still irrelevant for the state of the game. If you want to support, there are better chocies, if you want to tank -there are better choices.
    ...aaand we're back to the first answer of this thread being spot on.

    Lol that answer comes from someone who has never played DE. Daredevil is boring and does nothing special for the profession or group play besides making d/d conditions meta in Raids. I am not going to blame him for not knowing how it works, seeing as how it is no way comparable to Daredevil in terms of gameplay. But statistically, Deadeye has more uses and role variety than Daredevil.

    You may be right, but thief has been, is, and probably always will be a DPS class. All you bring is DPS, gank, plus one regardless of the game mode. If you try to do anything else, ok maybe you can put up 10s of protection on nearby allies with a niche Leadership Rune Wanderer DE build hooray. Now why the hell would anyone take that build over an Firebrand or a Boonshare Mesmer. Just because it has more possible "uses" does not mean they are practical at all. Just silly builds you can entertain yourself with in openworld PvE or maybe WvW roaming vs scouts and champion ranks.

    You'd be surprised. While full Wanderer's gives you 70% boon duration, every skill with a malice duration bonus can exceed 100% duration because the bonus applies to the skill's base duration instead of general duration. That protection application would end up being 17s with full malice, and if you are using Improv that's 34s.

    A good player can succeed with whatever is meta. A great player can succeed with whatever they want.
    [Vial of Salt]
    PSA: Deadeye isn't bad, you're just bad at using it.
    These DE tips are still relevant.

  • Atlaworks.4937Atlaworks.4937 Member ✭✭

    Hey OP maybe it's okay to not be meta, some people still play Revenant

    I mean, I've been playing DE over DD ever since the UC nerf, and I mained DD through all of HoT. It's nice to have a change of pace, and the constant marking in PvE feels good if you put a bunch of steal traits on. In PvP, I don't play meta builds because I generally find that meta builds are the ones people expect and try to counter. Really, my only wish with DE is that P/D synergized better with it, since P/D is my favorite thief weapon set and it's very much about kiting and keep-away, which would normally fit hand in hand with DE's style. I actually really hate playing D/P on any spec(Though S/D is fun at least).

    But hey if you think everyone should play meta or uninstall the game you can continue inhaling the biggest phallus imaginable all by yourself champ

  • saerni.2584saerni.2584 Member ✭✭✭

    DE synergizes with P/D.

    What build are you running?

    Northern Shiverpeaks (NSP)
    Thief (Deadeye)
    Commandant of P/D and Apex Predator

  • Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 7

    @BeepBoopBop.5403 said:
    Please explain how DE is so much tankier. All they have are 5s protection that is unpredictably applied with the Perfectionist trait, and the Iron Sights trait that reduces damage by 15% ONLY FROM MARKED TARGETS. Thief does not sustain by damage reduction and healing, it sustains by not getting hit. How much evade uptime does DE have vs DD?

    Something tells me you didn't take the time to think and look at it yourself. So you're either one of the people who jumps on the bandwagon, or

    15% damage reduction from marked target. If you are ever fighting out numbered, your primary target should always be the one who is capable of dealing the most damage to you. This is a very BASIC PvP rule.
    Shadow Arts synergizes extremely well with Deadeye on PvP. "Resiliance of Shadows" grants an additional 25% damage reduction for being stealthed.
    Finally the Grandmaster traits can give you
    1. Health and Initiative regeneration that scales on healing power. This is a lot stronger than people give credit for and has helped me easily smash a 1v5 fight.
    2. Blinds for five seconds, and prevents you from being critically hit in stealth.
    3. Boon strips, and grants an additional 10% reduction outside of stealth against people with no boons.

    You can have 15% damage reduction, 25% damage reduction, or 50% damage reduction depending on what you choose.

    Also, when stealing from an engie, you gain Protection, 33% damage reduction. When you steal from a warrior you are granted Resistance, immunity to condi. When stealing from Guardian, you are given Aegis, blocks the next attack. Mesmers get hit with slow, and you get quickness. Necros will heal you while they bleed. Thieves get instaniously blinded. Elementalist gives you Vigor, and they get chilled which slows down their cool downs, and their movements.

    And before you say "That requires you to be in stealth" you're a thief, not a warrior. Combined with Deadeye rewarding patience... this is pretty strong when played right. Stealth will let you absorb damage from their AOE and auto spamming, or give you a chance to regenerate lost health while you reposition. Keep in mind that Deadeye has a trait that grants malice and might for being revealed, and that DJ deals bonus damage for being revealed.

    You also have the strongest self heal in the game, and probably one of the best condi cleanses on your heal skill. Dependent on your Malice, and removes as many condi as you have malice stacks.

    Now you can choose between Rifle or Shortbow. Rifle's Standing 4 behaves similarly to Shortbow 5. Meaning that you can teleport onto platforms if you angle your camera correctly.

    All in all... pretty kitten tanky while being able to maintain good damage and have escape options. You also don't have to worry about that stupid nerf on Unhindered Combatant.

  • Atlaworks.4937Atlaworks.4937 Member ✭✭

    For sPvP? My loadout is Deadshot amulet, Krait runes, Agony/Separation on the P/D itself, and of course SB for evades/sb5. I've considered swapping SB for Rifle, but death's retreat is too unreliable for movement and creating distance, and spotter's shot doesn't help to justify it. Also, sb4 is fun on downed enemies and points when you actually have some expertise. I went with krait runes and separation over torment because as much as I love PD3, it's still the only torment I inflict outside of slotting skale venom. The main damage comes from pistol stealth applying bleed stacks. The part where I say I'd like it to synergize better is that I only end up with bleed stacks and they get cleansed easily that way, because I have no real cover condi. I used to play similar on DD, and use steal to step back in after PD3, and get 2-3 off with skale venom for a bunch of torment stacks on to of bleeds and stuff, but mark doesn't quite work the same. Mark does help with cover conditions, and can be traited to stealth you for more sneak attacks, but the conditions from stolen skills last for so little time that they may as not well be there. I still run Mercy though, along with Infiltrator's, Shadows, and Shadow Meld for elite. What I was saying prior is that I'd like P/D to synergize_ better_ with Deadeye. It's still functional, but given how pretty much all of the thief base runs D/P DD and has been doing D/P since day one since it's been the meta set since then, I wish P/D had something that made it function better. It feels like the least taken weapon set for thief.

    If you have better ideas, though, I'm more than willing to listen. I really love P/D as a weapon set, and helping improve it helps me want to play again.

  • Sobx.1758Sobx.1758 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 7

    @Zacchary.6183 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Zacchary.6183 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Zacchary.6183 said:

    @BeepBoopBop.5403 said:
    Why do you do it when most Daredevil and core S/D builds are just better

    Those builds mainly work in high-tier PvP and are near useless everywhere else. PvP is not even a third of the entire game.

    If you're trying to say that these builds work only in high-tier pvp and fail at lower level pvp then that's just plain wrong lol

    If you are going to completely omit the qualifiers from my statements, then sure. But the reality is that there are many more builds that perform better than meta in other parts of the game. Considering low tier pvp, d/d conditions can beat any other thief build any day.

    Yeah, in other parts of the game... And none of those better builds contain rifle in them.
    And kitten is this "low tier pvp" argument, give me a break :D And no, as far as I like d/d thief for it's "assassin-ish vibe", it's definitely not the best pvp weapon setup. "Low tier" or not, lmao.

    Lol, thief does not have enough condition clear nor HP to deal with constant cripple, and constant 20+ stacks of poison and bleeding. I can attest to this, since d/d conditions was what I was maining when I played pvp back then.

    Nope, still bad and nobody cares about "1v1ing thief vs thief", because pvp is more than that.

    @Zacchary.6183 said:

    @BeepBoopBop.5403 said:

    @Zacchary.6183 said:

    @BeepBoopBop.5403 said:
    Why do you do it when most Daredevil and core S/D builds are just better

    Those builds mainly work in high-tier PvP and are near useless everywhere else. PvP is not even a third of the entire game.

    are you trying to tell me that Deadeye is better for PvE cuz its not lol

    Most daredevil builds and core builds have to spec glassy and tend to die pretty fast in HoT and PoF maps because of how numerous the enemies are and how hard everything hits.
    (...)
    They can also take advantage of most core thief's traits (mainly steal traits) better than Daredevil with Renewing Gaze.

    That's also just plain wrong. Aside from the initial ""shock"" at HoT map, I had no problem with playing core/DD builds in both expansions.

    I had no "shock" with Deadeye because I was able to start off with tanky gear. And instead of running around getting aggro every step, I could park my kitten and move on when the area was cleared.

    You had no "shock with deadeye", because there was no deadeye at HoT release (and that's probably the only open world difficulty level jump there was in this game), but nice try.
    Also DD kills groups of mobs faster AND easier than DE, but keep parking whatever and wherever you want ^_^

    That's if the DD never gets hit, which becomes harder to accomplish the more you are fighting. Not disagreeing that the DrD is better at AoE, but DE is just tankier.

    No, not if DD never gets hit, I don't know where you took it from. I mean DD would still have less problems with "not getting hit" than DE (while dishing out -aoe or not- dmg at the same time), but even if he did, it doesn't change a lot. Being tankier also doesn't change a lot (if anything) in this case. Clearing groups of mobs is still safer and faster with DD.

    They are also able to keep a group buffed with their stolen skills since every one of them has a boon attached to it and last longer with more malice. DE 333 turns Deadeye into a support build which goes well with improv, Wanderer stats and leadership runes. That gives you 72% boon duration 23k HP and 2.7k armor. In fact, you could probably tank with that.

    That kind of stuff is impossible with Core or DrD.

    There are better supporting classes/builds and better tanking classes/builds, so who cares that it can do something better than DD, when it's still sub-par...?

    And that's why the first answer in this thread was correct.

    Compared to other professions, yeah, but I was comparing Deadeye to Daredevil and core.

    Great, still irrelevant for the state of the game. If you want to support, there are better chocies, if you want to tank -there are better choices.
    ...aaand we're back to the first answer of this thread being spot on.

    Lol that answer comes from someone who has never played DE. Daredevil is boring and does nothing special for the profession or group play besides making d/d conditions meta in Raids. I am not going to blame him for not knowing how it works, seeing as how it is no way comparable to Daredevil in terms of gameplay. But statistically, Deadeye has more uses and role variety than Daredevil.

    I don't know if it does or not, but the point here is that the answer was spot on, so the fact if he plays it becomes kind of irrelevant. If it was a shot in the dark, then it was a pretty good shot and that's what matter here, not if he mains DE or not. Funny how you keep talking about "opinions being opinions" and then you argue that something is "boring". Also nobody asked if it's boring, the fact is that it's better.

    And again, that "variety" doesn't matter when it's still not good at filling those secondary roles. On top of that, I'd argue with DE being a better ""tank"", but I don't even want to touch this pointless idea, so w/e. :D

  • saerni.2584saerni.2584 Member ✭✭✭

    @Atlaworks.4937 said:
    For sPvP? My loadout is Deadshot amulet, Krait runes, Agony/Separation on the P/D itself, and of course SB for evades/sb5. I've considered swapping SB for Rifle, but death's retreat is too unreliable for movement and creating distance, and spotter's shot doesn't help to justify it. Also, sb4 is fun on downed enemies and points when you actually have some expertise. I went with krait runes and separation over torment because as much as I love PD3, it's still the only torment I inflict outside of slotting skale venom. The main damage comes from pistol stealth applying bleed stacks. The part where I say I'd like it to synergize better is that I only end up with bleed stacks and they get cleansed easily that way, because I have no real cover condi. I used to play similar on DD, and use steal to step back in after PD3, and get 2-3 off with skale venom for a bunch of torment stacks on to of bleeds and stuff, but mark doesn't quite work the same. Mark does help with cover conditions, and can be traited to stealth you for more sneak attacks, but the conditions from stolen skills last for so little time that they may as not well be there. I still run Mercy though, along with Infiltrator's, Shadows, and Shadow Meld for elite. What I was saying prior is that I'd like P/D to synergize_ better_ with Deadeye. It's still functional, but given how pretty much all of the thief base runs D/P DD and has been doing D/P since day one since it's been the meta set since then, I wish P/D had something that made it function better. It feels like the least taken weapon set for thief.

    If you have better ideas, though, I'm more than willing to listen. I really love P/D as a weapon set, and helping improve it helps me want to play again.

    Poison based P/D synergizes better with DE due to the ability to apply poison on multiple stolen items and on mark twice over with mercy. Binding Shadow also is imo a must take for the poison, knockdown and huge vulnerability.

    The additional source of torment is Dagger 4 which can bounce off a ranger’s pet to hit them in stealth and off various other players for low cost high stacks. In sPvP Shadow Strike is better due to the high number of stacks, but the cripple off Dancing Dagger is nothing to sneeze at.

    Body Shot in a poison build is also really effective at building poison and locking down a target with expertise. It’s immobilize is really long term.

    Northern Shiverpeaks (NSP)
    Thief (Deadeye)
    Commandant of P/D and Apex Predator

  • MUDse.7623MUDse.7623 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 8

    @Zacchary.6183 said:

    Nope, still bad and nobody cares about "1v1ing thief vs thief", because pvp is more than that.

    You are right there is more to it. But if the thief is constantly dying to d/d conditions, then the match might as well be 5v4.

    why would a what ever thief die to a d/d condi thief, if he is not trying to 1 vs 1 him, and while the condi one tries to kill the other thief that is ignoring/kiting him he is of pretty much no use to his team so yeah 4 vs 5.

    No, not if DD never gets hit, I don't know where you took it from. I mean DD would still have less problems with "not getting hit" than DE (while dishing out -aoe or not- dmg at the same time), but even if he did, it doesn't change a lot. Being tankier also doesn't change a lot (if anything) in this case. Clearing groups of mobs is still safer and faster with DD.

    There is no such thing as 100% evasion coverage and evades are not infinite. The DD will inevitably get hit regardless of the circumstances or skill level of the player. At least with the DE, you can aggro and blow up one enemy at a time, even in valk/marauder. Range is a defense too.

    range is closed very fast by most people that dont have range to shoot right back, being able to hold that range advantage would be of use but DE lacks mobility for that.
    the defensive advantage DE has is in his ability to maintain stealth, wich is great in WvW were you have lots of time and were most people cant handle a stealthed target. actually before some rather recent changes there was a think like perma evade, a thief in a guild i used to be in not long ago did troll enemy zergs in WvW with, sure there were little frames he could get hit and that mostly by pew pew so he needed a few objects to LoS a bit but you cant tank that many people properly with Deadeye. i sure was able to keep zergs busy with only me hiding in keeps with DE but i cant really go visible with 50 people in lords room so after the 5 min marked buff most leave and then its mostly just 0(my keep)-15 people looking for me. and thats not really being defensive as they would wreck me in a second if i get visible too close to them. but to stay in a keep and kill one by one DE is better, used to do that with DD too but as i rarely did oneshot people and had alot more smoke fields in my stealth rotation and only had shadow trap as defense against anti stealth trap it got really hard with more than 5 people in the keep. so i see DE as more leathal against a large group of noobs (note: you shouldnt be able to kill 1 vs 3+ anything if they know how to handle downedstate) as stealth is really OP against noobs and DE is better in this one.

    I don't know if it does or not, but the point here is that the answer was spot on, so the fact if he plays it becomes kind of irrelevant. If it was a shot in the dark, then it was a pretty good shot and that's what matter here, not if he mains DE or not. Funny how you keep talking about "opinions being opinions" and then you argue that something is "boring". Also nobody asked if it's boring, the fact is that it's better.

    And again, that "variety" doesn't matter when it's still not good at filling those secondary roles. On top of that, I'd argue with DE being a better ""tank"", but I don't even want to touch this pointless idea, so w/e. :D

  • babazhook.6805babazhook.6805 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 8

    @saerni.2584 said:

    @Atlaworks.4937 said:
    For sPvP? My loadout is Deadshot amulet, Krait runes, Agony/Separation on the P/D itself, and of course SB for evades/sb5. I've considered swapping SB for Rifle, but death's retreat is too unreliable for movement and creating distance, and spotter's shot doesn't help to justify it. Also, sb4 is fun on downed enemies and points when you actually have some expertise. I went with krait runes and separation over torment because as much as I love PD3, it's still the only torment I inflict outside of slotting skale venom. The main damage comes from pistol stealth applying bleed stacks. The part where I say I'd like it to synergize better is that I only end up with bleed stacks and they get cleansed easily that way, because I have no real cover condi. I used to play similar on DD, and use steal to step back in after PD3, and get 2-3 off with skale venom for a bunch of torment stacks on to of bleeds and stuff, but mark doesn't quite work the same. Mark does help with cover conditions, and can be traited to stealth you for more sneak attacks, but the conditions from stolen skills last for so little time that they may as not well be there. I still run Mercy though, along with Infiltrator's, Shadows, and Shadow Meld for elite. What I was saying prior is that I'd like P/D to synergize_ better_ with Deadeye. It's still functional, but given how pretty much all of the thief base runs D/P DD and has been doing D/P since day one since it's been the meta set since then, I wish P/D had something that made it function better. It feels like the least taken weapon set for thief.

    If you have better ideas, though, I'm more than willing to listen. I really love P/D as a weapon set, and helping improve it helps me want to play again.

    Poison based P/D synergizes better with DE due to the ability to apply poison on multiple stolen items and on mark twice over with mercy. Binding Shadow also is imo a must take for the poison, knockdown and huge vulnerability.

    The additional source of torment is Dagger 4 which can bounce off a ranger’s pet to hit them in stealth and off various other players for low cost high stacks. In sPvP Shadow Strike is better due to the high number of stacks, but the cripple off Dancing Dagger is nothing to sneeze at.

    Body Shot in a poison build is also really effective at building poison and locking down a target with expertise. It’s immobilize is really long term.

    I would add that IMPROV can be as effective as potent poison with both these GM traits adding to the P/d build. Those steals on MARK are huge and p/d can lay serious hurt on a scourge from 1500 without every getting into those AOE circles simply by using mark/mercy . This cn give you four apps of 5 stacks bleed each in short order. While I do not PvP a thief from range should be able to flush a scourge off point rather handily using mark/mercy and improv.

    Potent poison is probably a better choice when facing a greater variety of opponents given the return from the mark steal condition wise is so widely divergent between classes. IE you are not getting much in the way of damage off the Mesmer steal so would probably lean more to poison and potent.

    Whatever the choice the real kicker to using DE in conditionare those might stacks. The Double steal with mercy applies 6 poison and 10 confusion off the bat added to the bleeds and torments you are laying on. Those low durations do not matter as much when they condition ticks that are firing do so with 600+ condition damage added via might. The adds from the MARK steals can add significant burst from the conditions this all before one even uses a weapon skill.

    Dependent on who you face sometimes it better to save some of this in reserve. Get an initial load off some conditions on via a mark and weapon rotation , wait for a cleanse and then layer the rest on. I trait respite and will try and bait a person into the needle trap which very often prompts a cleanse and follow this up with loading the conditions on via mark/mercy.

    This all might change come patch day next week so we will have to see what that entails.

  • Zacchary.6183Zacchary.6183 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 8

    @MUDse.7623 said:

    @Zacchary.6183 said:

    Nope, still bad and nobody cares about "1v1ing thief vs thief", because pvp is more than that.

    You are right there is more to it. But if the thief is constantly dying to d/d conditions, then the match might as well be 5v4.

    why would a what ever thief die to a d/d condi thief, if he is not trying to 1 vs 1 him, and while the condi one tries to kill the other thief that is ignoring/kiting him he is of pretty much no use to his team so yeah 4 vs 5.

    The amount of bleeds, poisons and cripple d/d conditions can give will down a glassy thief in a few ticks. It would be unrealistic for a d/d condition thief to focus solely on the enemy thief because there is nothing in it besides being an kitten.

    No, not if DD never gets hit, I don't know where you took it from. I mean DD would still have less problems with "not getting hit" than DE (while dishing out -aoe or not- dmg at the same time), but even if he did, it doesn't change a lot. Being tankier also doesn't change a lot (if anything) in this case. Clearing groups of mobs is still safer and faster with DD.

    There is no such thing as 100% evasion coverage and evades are not infinite. The DD will inevitably get hit regardless of the circumstances or skill level of the player. At least with the DE, you can aggro and blow up one enemy at a time, even in valk/marauder. Range is a defense too.

    range is closed very fast by most people that dont have range to shoot right back, being able to hold that range advantage would be of use but DE lacks mobility for that.
    the defensive advantage DE has is in his ability to maintain stealth, wich is great in WvW were you have lots of time and were most people cant handle a stealthed target. actually before some rather recent changes there was a think like perma evade, a thief in a guild i used to be in not long ago did troll enemy zergs in WvW with, sure there were little frames he could get hit and that mostly by pew pew so he needed a few objects to LoS a bit but you cant tank that many people properly with Deadeye. i sure was able to keep zergs busy with only me hiding in keeps with DE but i cant really go visible with 50 people in lords room so after the 5 min marked buff most leave and then its mostly just 0(my keep)-15 people looking for me. and thats not really being defensive as they would wreck me in a second if i get visible too close to them. but to stay in a keep and kill one by one DE is better, used to do that with DD too but as i rarely did oneshot people and had alot more smoke fields in my stealth rotation and only had shadow trap as defense against anti stealth trap it got really hard with more than 5 people in the keep. so i see DE as more leathal against a large group of noobs (note: you shouldnt be able to kill 1 vs 3+ anything if they know how to handle downedstate) as stealth is really OP against noobs and DE is better in this one.

    Agreed.

    I don't know if it does or not, but the point here is that the answer was spot on, so the fact if he plays it becomes kind of irrelevant. If it was a shot in the dark, then it was a pretty good shot and that's what matter here, not if he mains DE or not. Funny how you keep talking about "opinions being opinions" and then you argue that something is "boring". Also nobody asked if it's boring, the fact is that it's better.

    And again, that "variety" doesn't matter when it's still not good at filling those secondary roles. On top of that, I'd argue with DE being a better ""tank"", but I don't even want to touch this pointless idea, so w/e. :D

    . And that's never going to happen so long as people keep acting this way.

    A good player can succeed with whatever is meta. A great player can succeed with whatever they want.
    [Vial of Salt]
    PSA: Deadeye isn't bad, you're just bad at using it.
    These DE tips are still relevant.

  • why get close and backstab when you can do it from range? yea, for some mobility d/p and s/d better, but when you can one shot nearly everyone and get all the way to gold t3 start of season then its not bad. you need to know that if anyone gets close to you, youre screwed. if you can kill them and disappear then you are fine.

    Throw in the insta stomp artifact on the arena map and you are golden.

  • MUDse.7623MUDse.7623 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 8

    @Zacchary.6183 said:

    @MUDse.7623 said:

    @Zacchary.6183 said:

    Nope, still bad and nobody cares about "1v1ing thief vs thief", because pvp is more than that.

    You are right there is more to it. But if the thief is constantly dying to d/d conditions, then the match might as well be 5v4.

    why would a what ever thief die to a d/d condi thief, if he is not trying to 1 vs 1 him, and while the condi one tries to kill the other thief that is ignoring/kiting him he is of pretty much no use to his team so yeah 4 vs 5.

    The amount of bleeds, poisons and cripple d/d conditions can give will down a glassy thief in a few ticks. It would be unrealistic for a d/d condition thief to focus solely on the enemy thief because there is nothing in it besides being an kitten.

    i have to admit i didnt play much sPvP since the funny patch turning my bear into a dragon stomp, wich was long before HoT. in WvW i personally never had issues with glassy thief to kill d/d condi thieves. tho i didnt play sPvP meta build in WvW like alot of people seem to do. but i think with UC you will have a mobility adavantage and the condi thief wont even come close to you to apply his cripple/poison/what ever.

    Believe it or not, I have busted my kitten (like I normally do) taking the spec to see how it ticked and find ways to make it better. I have put out advice and did some math so that the thief community could chill the kitten out. The links are in my signature.

    But regardless of how much math or testing I do, there still are those people who couldn't care about facts and evidence. They don't want to argue facts because it is too hard for them to do. These people, more often than not, are salty players that are incapable of using what they don't understand. They won't admit it because otherwise it would ruin that facade of a highly skilled player. And if my signature doesn't make it blatantly obvious enough, I think those people are complete trash and I am not going to stop "defending DE" until these people stop spraying kitten everywhere.

    i havent checked your tests and facts or evidence, cause i simply ignore all signatures. but i have played DE alot in WvW and my stomp/death ratio is high above average so i guess i can say i am successful and still think DE is extreamly weak against a decent opponent. In WvW i rarely encounter a decent opponent that is focused and not distracted/semi afk but if i do..well i can avoid dying but i cant kill them or prevent them killing others. currently fighting against RoF and i did fight against that server alot recently so some romers that you simply recognize and they recognize you. there is a guild called IKR(is name calling allowed when i try to give a positive example?) with rather good roamers, they kill sooo many of our poor scouts :D the first times i saw them, i did land alot of DJs. now i still occaisonally land one if there are enough pugs to keep them busy that they cant focus on me but if they know that i am on the map, the just need to see me once.. they focus up and dogge. i was able to oneshot their mesmers with backstab at the beginning when they started to dogge but they now survive that barely and walking mostly with at least 2 people i cant do anything against them if not oneshot. and in 1 on 1 situation well they got 18s to prepare to dogge, thats not hard and they are more mobile then me if they barely survive a backstab and get quickly out of combat or just counter burst me.
    for pve mainly DPS matters for thief as the support abilities of deadeye while nice are not unique and are easily replacable. i have yet to see a test saying that DE has greater DPS.
    for spvp i think mobility and high burst is important, tho DJ is high burst the setup takes too long and is too easily avoided while leaving you too vulnerable. p/p might do better burst on DE but its also easily countered. and mobility is less with DE.
    those are the 'facts' i know, ill check your tests later but i doubt you have evidence that contradict what i just wrote - but who knows.

  • Zacchary.6183Zacchary.6183 Member ✭✭✭

    @MUDse.7623 said:

    @Zacchary.6183 said:

    @MUDse.7623 said:

    @Zacchary.6183 said:

    Nope, still bad and nobody cares about "1v1ing thief vs thief", because pvp is more than that.

    You are right there is more to it. But if the thief is constantly dying to d/d conditions, then the match might as well be 5v4.

    why would a what ever thief die to a d/d condi thief, if he is not trying to 1 vs 1 him, and while the condi one tries to kill the other thief that is ignoring/kiting him he is of pretty much no use to his team so yeah 4 vs 5.

    The amount of bleeds, poisons and cripple d/d conditions can give will down a glassy thief in a few ticks. It would be unrealistic for a d/d condition thief to focus solely on the enemy thief because there is nothing in it besides being an kitten.

    i have to admit i didnt play much sPvP since the funny patch turning my bear into a dragon stomp, wich was long before HoT. in WvW i personally never had issues with glassy thief to kill d/d condi thieves. tho i didnt play sPvP meta build in WvW like alot of people seem to do. but i think with UC you will have a mobility adavantage and the condi thief wont even come close to you to apply his cripple/poison/what ever.

    I don't know if it does or not, but the point here is that the answer was spot on, so the fact if he plays it becomes kind of irrelevant. If it was a shot in the dark, then it was a pretty good shot and that's what matter here, not if he mains DE or not. Funny how you keep talking about "opinions being opinions" and then you argue that something is "boring". Also nobody asked if it's boring, the fact is that it's better.

    And again, that "variety" doesn't matter when it's still not good at filling those secondary roles. On top of that, I'd argue with DE being a better ""tank"", but I don't even want to touch this pointless idea, so w/e. :D

    Asur can't speak for anyone because he has a habit of posting overexaggerated opinion and lying to people who disagree with him.

    And you are right that variety doesn't matter.... in the world of metas. But metas only matter in 5% of the entire game so that point is moot.

    maybe there is only 5% of the game where you need meta. but meta matters in most aspects of the game as its often faster or better in achieveing your goals often also easier than with a selfcrippling fun build.

    yes i do play deadeye - currently i mainly play mesmer for pve, rev/mesmer for wvw blobs and deadeye for solo roaming. and most of the time i am on that deadeye cause its alot of fun to me as i like to annoy my opponents. like you i really love my deadeye and therfor i try to 'defend' it when people claim its OP and what not.
    but for me it feels like you to want to ignore all the flaws and weaknesses the deadeye and especially rifle has and blame it all on playerskill. as you like deadeye i would think you would want to improve it and make it more competitive. nobody here wants to critcize you for playing something that is fun to you, you dont need to play meta as long as you play with people that dont mind. but please stop trying to tell everyone that DE is strong in most areas and people only play it wrong, you are not the only 'smart' player in gw2. deadeye is strong in trolling in WvW and fun to play to some, thats it. but DE needs alot of improvements(malice system: should be able to keep a mark on a target without losing malice stacks,...,...,...) and fixes (still many obstructed/out of range messages exlusively for DJ on moving targets while in range and no obstacle / invisible wall in the way,...,...,...)

    I don't ignore all of the flaws. The reason why I am so defensive (and most people fail to realize it themselves) is because I am trying to play devil's advocate against people who don't respond to logic. The same group comes on here every day and says the same thing "DE is trash" "I hate it" "rifle is a kitten weapon, why anet?!" and provide absolutely no rationale nor improvements that could be made to a "trash" spec. This constant kitten does nothing but makes the thief forums look like a rancid pile of kitten. It is one of the main reasons why anet hardly ever takes (or even looks at) our criticisms seriously. They probably see us as a collection of ungrateful spoiled children.

    i think alot of thieves tried it, realized it is not stronger or on same level as daredevil or other class builds for the role they want to play and therefor say its trash and dont enjoy it as its not efficient enough. i also dont like to use my deadeye outside of solo roaming as i think its just not fun knowing everything could be so much easier with another build/class and when playing with others i dont want to feel carried.
    i dont like to play warrior in any game mode with anybuild and i do think they are weak in roaming in wvw as they are mostly easy to outplay so my oppinion is warrior is trash, but i also wont propose any change to it as i simply dont like to play warrior. you just dont see me posting about in on warrior forum cause its not a part of a class i like. the thieves saying deadeye/rifle is trash probably love their thieves and alot of them have mainly played thief, but as deadeye is a part of their loved class , a part they dont like - ofc they will say it. it is also obvious that for pvp it is hard or rather impossible to balance a ranged stealthed sniper so what shall they propose, many would have simply prefered another weapon, another elite spec.

    i personally already with daredevil played stealth camping glass thief in wvw since shortly after HoT release so for me deadeye was an upgrade, but its not really a common playstyle and rather toxic one aswell - many opponents seem to have serious problem with it.

    Believe it or not, I have busted my kitten (like I normally do) taking the spec to see how it ticked and find ways to make it better. I have put out advice and did some math so that the thief community could chill the kitten out. The links are in my signature.

    But regardless of how much math or testing I do, there still are those people who couldn't care about facts and evidence. They don't want to argue facts because it is too hard for them to do. These people, more often than not, are salty players that are incapable of using what they don't understand. They won't admit it because otherwise it would ruin that facade of a highly skilled player. And if my signature doesn't make it blatantly obvious enough, I think those people are complete trash and I am not going to stop "defending DE" until these people stop spraying kitten everywhere.

    i havent checked your tests and facts or evidence, cause i simply ignore all signatures. but i have played DE alot in WvW and my stomp/death ratio is high above average so i guess i can say i am successful and still think DE is extreamly weak against a decent opponent. In WvW i rarely encounter a decent opponent that is focused and not distracted/semi afk but if i do..well i can avoid dying but i cant kill them or prevent them killing others. currently fighting against RoF and i did fight against that server alot recently so some romers that you simply recognize and they recognize you. there is a guild called IKR(is name calling allowed when i try to give a positive example?) with rather good roamers, they kill sooo many of our poor scouts :D the first times i saw them, i did land alot of DJs. now i still occaisonally land one if there are enough pugs to keep them busy that they cant focus on me but if they know that i am on the map, the just need to see me once.. they focus up and dogge. i was able to oneshot their mesmers with backstab at the beginning when they started to dogge but they now survive that barely and walking mostly with at least 2 people i cant do anything against them if not oneshot. and in 1 on 1 situation well they got 18s to prepare to dogge, thats not hard and they are more mobile then me if they barely survive a backstab and get quickly out of combat or just counter burst me.
    for pve mainly DPS matters for thief as the support abilities of deadeye while nice are not unique and are easily replacable. i have yet to see a test saying that DE has greater DPS.
    for spvp i think mobility and high burst is important, tho DJ is high burst the setup takes too long and is too easily avoided while leaving you too vulnerable. p/p might do better burst on DE but its also easily countered. and mobility is less with DE.
    those are the 'facts' i know, ill check your tests later but i doubt you have evidence that contradict what i just wrote - but who knows.

    What you said is the same things I observed so I am not going to disagree with you there. That stuff is a given.

    I actually did some DPS testing with weaponsets just a few days ago. Using my normal build, with it's low ramp up time, I was able to out DPS p/p and d/d for the first 400k and then DPS dropped to just below their levels once initiative was mostly gone and utilities were on constant CD.

    A good player can succeed with whatever is meta. A great player can succeed with whatever they want.
    [Vial of Salt]
    PSA: Deadeye isn't bad, you're just bad at using it.
    These DE tips are still relevant.

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