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Skill rating too punishing for failure to carry lower-tiers


Exciton.8942

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Today I lost 2 games where teammates were gold 2/3 while I was plat 2. I lost almost 40 ratings in these games. And those 2 games feel quite impossible to win with the way teammates rotate. Now to get back those ratings, I have to win way more than 2 games for sure.

I think the game skill rating algorithm is extremely punishing on failure to carry lower tier games. I think when I lost higher tier games I don't lose much rating. And these lower-tier games are very frustrating.

I remember seeing the algorithm only take into account your own rating vs enemy team rating while ignoring your teammate rating. I think this is actually quite unfair. The difficulty to carry a lot of lower-tier teammates far exceed carrying your own weight in higher tier games.

Please consider a change to your algorithm where rating gain/loss depends on the average ratings from the 2 teams.

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In a small team vs team setting, rating changes that take into account your personal rating vs the average enemy team's rating have displayed more accurate results than if it were based off of the average of team 1's rating vs average of team 2's rating. There's plenty of data and information online about glicko2 and how personal score vs team average is generally better than other options if you care to take the time to do some research.

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If you are going to implement glicko you can't have huge rating differences on a team. It gives too much reward to the bad players that win and too much punishment to the good players that lose. This makes the rating very inaccurate.

If you look at the wiki the matchmaker considers players in a 1200, yes twelve hundred, mmr range for a match. That is completely broken. I've had players with top ten title both on my team and on the opponents team as a gold 2 this season.

IMO they should hard cap the mmr range for a team to 200-300. For the upper tier players, make them queue into a separate pool.

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I have suggested something before and I can tell it now.

What trolls don't have?

% participation of damage/heal/offense/defense/revives/kills

The simple method here should be implemented about winning or losing more or fewer points:

If person "A" has 25% participation in damage and 20 participation in kills he would have (25+20+0+0+0)/5 overall participation = 9%.

If this person loses the game he should lose all the points like before.

If person "B" has 40% participation in damage, 30% participation in kills, 25% participation in healing and 50% participation in defense or offense he would have (40+30+25+50+0)/5 = 29% overall participation.

If person "C" decides he has to make sandwiches he should have lower overall participation and if he plays little his participation should look something like this 5% participation on kills, 10% of healing, 5% on offense = (5+10+5+0+0)/5 = 4%, if not less, even 0 in some cases.

In the current state of the game all of the players, the 9% participation person, the 29% participation person and the 4% participation person lose the same amount of points. In my opinion, Anet should change this.

What will happen if anet change this? Trollers will lose regular points while players that wanna play or are better will lose less, OR trollers/bad players will lose more points than the better players.

This will encourage people to go after overall participation because winning or losing they will play until the end and the overall game experience will get better. Yes, this will be a race for kills/damage/healing/capture points/defense points but isn't how the PvP matches are won? Yes, of course, once again team play will be better than soloing around, but this is common sense. The smart PVP player will work together with his team to get his participation better because even if he is losing but he cares about his rank, he will give the maximum to lose fewer points.

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@Faux Play.6104 said:If you are going to implement glicko you can't have huge rating differences on a team. It gives too much reward to the bad players that win and too much punishment to the good players that lose. This makes the rating very inaccurate.

If you look at the wiki the matchmaker considers players in a 1200, yes twelve hundred, mmr range for a match. That is completely broken. I've had players with top ten title both on my team and on the opponents team as a gold 2 this season.

IMO they should hard cap the mmr range for a team to 200-300. For the upper tier players, make them queue into a separate pool.

They should cap the mmr range at 200-300. But the PvP population isn't big enough to support that. You'd be facing huge queues and have the same people in every match

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@bOTEB.1573 said:I have suggested something before and I can tell it now.

What trolls don't have?

% participation of damage/heal/offense/defense/revives/kills

The simple method here should be implemented about winning or losing more or fewer points:

If person "A" has 25% participation in damage and 20 participation in kills he would have (25+20+0+0+0)/5 overall participation = 9%.

If this person loses the game he should lose all the points like before.

If person "B" has 40% participation in damage, 30% participation in kills, 25% participation in healing and 50% participation in defense or offense he would have (40+30+25+50+0)/5 = 29% overall participation.

If person "C" decides he has to make sandwiches he should have lower overall participation and if he plays little his participation should look something like this 5% participation on kills, 10% of healing, 5% on offense = (5+10+5+0+0)/5 = 4%, if not less, even 0 in some cases.

In the current state of the game all of the players, the 9% participation person, the 29% participation person and the 4% participation person lose the same amount of points. In my opinion, Anet should change this.

What will happen if anet change this? Trollers will lose regular points while players that wanna play or are better will lose less, OR trollers/bad players will lose more points than the better players.

This will encourage people to go after overall participation because winning or losing they will play until the end and the overall game experience will get better. Yes, this will be a race for kills/damage/healing/capture points/defense points but isn't how the PvP matches are won? Yes, of course, once again team play will be better than soloing around, but this is common sense. The smart PVP player will work together with his team to get his participation better because even if he is losing but he cares about his rank, he will give the maximum to lose fewer points.

What about someone who has zero topstats but capped and deccapped every node for you and cleansed you of all conditions and cc ing while you fought hard for those kill and damagdamage stats.

Said it before and I'll say it again. Topstats are cancer. Nobody cares if you have highest damage if you still lose because you don't rotate or cap.

Must be nice in plat and legend, but us gold and under have to deal with idiots who think this is deathmatch and fight waaay off point to "duel" and "muhhhtopstats"

I am sick of being the only one on team capping nodes and holding them then getting shit on when we lose because "noob no topstats"

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@Omar Aschi Popp.7496 said:

@bOTEB.1573 said:I have suggested something before and I can tell it now.

What trolls don't have?

% participation of damage/heal/offense/defense/revives/kills

The simple method here should be implemented about winning or losing more or fewer points:

If person "A" has 25% participation in damage and 20 participation in kills he would have (25+20+0+0+0)/5 overall participation = 9%.

If this person loses the game he should lose all the points like before.

If person "B" has 40% participation in damage, 30% participation in kills, 25% participation in healing and 50% participation in defense or offense he would have (40+30+25+50+0)/5 = 29% overall participation.

If person "C" decides he has to make sandwiches he should have lower overall participation and if he plays little his participation should look something like this 5% participation on kills, 10% of healing, 5% on offense = (5+10+5+0+0)/5 = 4%, if not less, even 0 in some cases.

In the current state of the game all of the players, the 9% participation person, the 29% participation person and the 4% participation person lose the same amount of points. In my opinion, Anet should change this.

What will happen if anet change this? Trollers will lose regular points while players that wanna play or are better will lose less, OR trollers/bad players will lose more points than the better players.

This will encourage people to go after overall participation because winning or losing they will play until the end and the overall game experience will get better. Yes, this will be a race for kills/damage/healing/capture points/defense points but isn't how the PvP matches are won? Yes, of course, once again team play will be better than soloing around, but this is common sense. The smart PVP player will work together with his team to get his participation better because even if he is losing but he cares about his rank, he will give the maximum to lose fewer points.

What about someone who has zero topstats but capped and deccapped every node for you and cleansed you of all conditions and cc ing while you fought hard for those kill and damagdamage stats.

Said it before and I'll say it again. Topstats are cancer. Nobody cares if you have highest damage if you still lose because you don't rotate or cap.

Must be nice in plat and legend, but us gold and under have to deal with idiots who think this is deathmatch and fight waaay off point to "duel" and "muhhhtopstats"

I am sick of being the only one on team capping nodes and holding them then getting kitten on when we lose because "noob no topstats"

Rotating gives u offensive/defensive stats. If you dont dmg, dont heal and don't kill, all your efforts should be concentrated on offensive/defensive which will give you 1-2 top stats.

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@bOTEB.1573 said:

@bOTEB.1573 said:I have suggested something before and I can tell it now.

What trolls don't have?

% participation of damage/heal/offense/defense/revives/kills

The simple method here should be implemented about winning or losing more or fewer points:

If person "A" has 25% participation in damage and 20 participation in kills he would have (25+20+0+0+0)/5 overall participation = 9%.

If this person loses the game he should lose all the points like before.

If person "B" has 40% participation in damage, 30% participation in kills, 25% participation in healing and 50% participation in defense or offense he would have (40+30+25+50+0)/5 = 29% overall participation.

If person "C" decides he has to make sandwiches he should have lower overall participation and if he plays little his participation should look something like this 5% participation on kills, 10% of healing, 5% on offense = (5+10+5+0+0)/5 = 4%, if not less, even 0 in some cases.

In the current state of the game all of the players, the 9% participation person, the 29% participation person and the 4% participation person lose the same amount of points. In my opinion, Anet should change this.

What will happen if anet change this? Trollers will lose regular points while players that wanna play or are better will lose less, OR trollers/bad players will lose more points than the better players.

This will encourage people to go after overall participation because winning or losing they will play until the end and the overall game experience will get better. Yes, this will be a race for kills/damage/healing/capture points/defense points but isn't how the PvP matches are won? Yes, of course, once again team play will be better than soloing around, but this is common sense. The smart PVP player will work together with his team to get his participation better because even if he is losing but he cares about his rank, he will give the maximum to lose fewer points.

What about someone who has zero topstats but capped and deccapped every node for you and cleansed you of all conditions and cc ing while you fought hard for those kill and damagdamage stats.

Said it before and I'll say it again. Topstats are cancer. Nobody cares if you have highest damage if you still lose because you don't rotate or cap.

Must be nice in plat and legend, but us gold and under have to deal with idiots who think this is deathmatch and fight waaay off point to "duel" and "muhhhtopstats"

I am sick of being the only one on team capping nodes and holding them then getting kitten on when we lose because "noob no topstats"

Rotating gives u offensive/defensive stats. If you dont dmg, dont heal and don't kill, all your efforts should be concentrated on offensive/defensive which will give you 1-2 top stats.

The scenario I was griping about is team is feeding mid like lemmings and I continuously cap polar points just to stem the greatness of our inevitable loss.

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I think the pvp population is just too tiny to make any significant changes to the MMR formula. Either we will have moderate match wait times and be paired with significantly worse players than our skill level or we get paired with players around our skill level but wait a hour for a match. To be honest, I don't think there is win-win scenario. Maybe just dropping season pvp all together.

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