[Suggestion] Stop making Story Bosses Hard (LS4 Spoilers) - Page 10 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

[Suggestion] Stop making Story Bosses Hard (LS4 Spoilers)

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  • Dante.1508Dante.1508 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 26, 2019

    @Ashantara.8731 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    Those players that left due to the increasing difficulty of the last 6 years should be coming back now that the game is back to kindergarten level difficulty. Otherwise the entire move makes no sense.

    :+1:

    Far from it i've been back two months and the game just continually frustrates me.. I actually just logged out after doing some more season 4 and i'm bored to tears and sick and tired of how much the power creep on content has become, its taken two months after a four year break to make me want out again..

    Its just really bad all round.. I'm not sure how this game keeps customers.. I'm actually on the forums now when i should be in game enjoying but i just can't take the tedious slog anymore.. I need a new game.

    Seems the devs learnt nothing from Heart of Thorns.

  • Ashantara.8731Ashantara.8731 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dante.1508 said:
    Its just really bad all round.. I'm not sure how this game keeps customers..

    Season 4 had some challenging stuff, but by "recent" we are referring to Season 5, which has had super easy story missions so far that pose no challenge at all combat-wise.

  • Dante.1508Dante.1508 Member ✭✭✭

    @Ashantara.8731 said:

    @Dante.1508 said:
    Its just really bad all round.. I'm not sure how this game keeps customers..

    Season 4 had some challenging stuff, but by "recent" we are referring to Season 5, which has had super easy story missions so far that pose no challenge at all combat-wise.

    I can't even get past season 4 to enjoy season 5 tbh...

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dante.1508 said:
    I can't even get past season 4 to enjoy season 5 tbh...

    This is why I find it confusing that Season 5 is so laughably easy. It is as if it's marketed only at returning players or those that are willing to skip Season 4 and start from Season 5 (with all the problems that has). Would you be willing to skip Season 4 entirely and start your playing experience from Season 5?

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Astralporing.1957 said:
    As you have already acknowledged, it s not "now".

    The complaints always existed, but for 6 years the game continued in a certain course. Someone would argue playing a game that causes you to complain for a few years isn't very healthy. But I guess some are built to always complain

    Or perhaps it was the transition towards the more challenging content that was a bad move, and it is well past time to wise up.

    The transition towards more challenge started in 2012 and continued on for 6 whole years, with some brief intermissions in between (content droughts). I think ti's way too late to turn back now.

    I don't think it's about players returning to the game anymore.

    Well check out players like @Dante.1508 returning to the game, the game is telling them to skip the past content and start from the newest one because it's by far easier. Does that make any kind of sense to you? Skip Season 4 and start directly with Season 5? Are the players that will actually do that (returning or old ones) worth the investment? Meanwhile those that went through Season 4 and liked it (maybe with some boss exceptions, there are some over-tuned ones) will now experience the absolutely laughable Season 5 and start leaving.

    So, ask yourself - is it indeed a stupid move to try to retain at least one part of your community, instead of losing both groups?

    I think we have a misunderstanding here. I'm not talking specifically about the removal of challenging content like Fractals and Raids, but I'm concerned about the over-simplification of the living world content, including the story and the open world. The Icebrood Saga so far has been, at best, core tyria difficulty - challenge wise, if even at that, which is what I'm concerned with here. The removal of instanced challenging content is simply part of this over-simplification attempt, I can understand why we can't have challenging instanced content, when the open world/story content is so under-tuned. My question and concern is what purpose does reducing the difficulty of the living world SO MUCH serve at this point in the game's life, without making tweaks to the rest of it.

  • Eloc Freidon.5692Eloc Freidon.5692 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I like interesting mechanics that make you use the environment, but this boss definitely was an aimless AOE spam. The wave effects aren't even accurate to jump over. Was still an interesting fight regardless of the spam.

  • Dante.1508Dante.1508 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 26, 2019

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Dante.1508 said:
    I can't even get past season 4 to enjoy season 5 tbh...

    This is why I find it confusing that Season 5 is so laughably easy. It is as if it's marketed only at returning players or those that are willing to skip Season 4 and start from Season 5 (with all the problems that has). Would you be willing to skip Season 4 entirely and start your playing experience from Season 5?

    Not really i wanted to follow the story.. but honestly i've not even played the game much today, i went back to Steam games.. I guess Steam gets my money instead.

  • Ashantara.8731Ashantara.8731 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dante.1508 said:
    Not really i wanted to follow the story.. but honestly i've not even played the game much today, i went back to Steam games.. I guess Steam gets my money instead.

    What a shame. I miss the challenging story fights a bit, to be honest, but enjoy the writing and much tenser story atmosphere in Season 5.

  • I don't know how you can feel tense when the NPC's can kill the boss for you. I really don't understand how having player agency is now consider tedious. And if you can't do the content still, find a friend to help you. The content either doesn't scale or scales so poorly it is not noticeable. This is a MMO, not a single player walking simulator.

  • @Shadowmoon.7986 said:
    I don't know how you can feel tense when the NPC's can kill the boss for you. I really don't understand how having player agency is now consider tedious. And if you can't do the content still, find a friend to help you. The content either doesn't scale or scales so poorly it is not noticeable. This is a MMO, not a single player walking simulator.

    it does make the content playable, but then i have to help them with their stories too. that means i have to play the content, that i hate 3-4 times more.
    NOT an option (for me). i can raid in other mmos, but apparantly, am not good enough for the STORY in this one. i will miss core tyria till the day i die,
    but i simply refuse to play this kind of content.

  • There's a hard boss somewhere in the story?!

    Seriously though, trying to find the perfect sweet spot in an MMO is literally impossible. You have players from both ends of the spectrum and everywhere in between, there's no chance to please everyone. Some will say everything is too hard, some will say everything is too easy. As long as we can't choose our own difficulty, this is what we will get. To Anet's defense though, I think they've managed to find a pretty good spot between challenging and tediously hard, but that is of course arguable.

    As a overall pretty casual player myself, I've found some story parts challenging, but never overly hard. I don't think I've died once during LS4 & 5 story, but then again I've made myself a pretty cheesy build just to enjoy the flow of the story more instead of getting stuck on a boss encounter. I'm sure a full glass build would offer more challenge.

    So, without a difficulty slider, there's really only two options. Get better at the game by learning, and/or get a braindead cheese build that basically can't die.

  • you forgot the 3rd option...finding a game with actual progression. that was my solution.

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Awwww i can’t kill fast with ministrel stats, bosses are to hard.

    :)

  • Shikaru.7618Shikaru.7618 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 27, 2019

    @battledrone.8315 said:
    you forgot the 3rd option...finding a game with actual progression. that was my solution.

    There is progression in this game. It's just that it's all skill gated and not gear gated. This is a serious case of gitgud.

  • Dante.1508Dante.1508 Member ✭✭✭

    @Shadowmoon.7986 said:
    I don't know how you can feel tense when the NPC's can kill the boss for you. I really don't understand how having player agency is now consider tedious. And if you can't do the content still, find a friend to help you. The content either doesn't scale or scales so poorly it is not noticeable. This is a MMO, not a single player walking simulator.

    No one wants to do it they've already done it years ago.

  • @Shikaru.7618 said:

    @battledrone.8315 said:
    you forgot the 3rd option...finding a game with actual progression. that was my solution.

    There is progression in this game. It's just that it's all skill gated and not gear gated. This is a serious case of gitgud.

    it is also a case of making content for a diminishing playerbase. normal business politics would dictate, that you try to keep your customers.
    but i guess they found a magical way to avoid the consequences, since they didnt have to fire anyone

  • SexyMofo.8923SexyMofo.8923 Member ✭✭✭

    NONE of the pve story bosses are hard. I repeat: NONE. I am a solo player and I don’t recall needed help on any of them.

  • Shikaru.7618Shikaru.7618 Member ✭✭✭

    @Dante.1508 said:

    @Shadowmoon.7986 said:
    I don't know how you can feel tense when the NPC's can kill the boss for you. I really don't understand how having player agency is now consider tedious. And if you can't do the content still, find a friend to help you. The content either doesn't scale or scales so poorly it is not noticeable. This is a MMO, not a single player walking simulator.

    No one wants to do it they've already done it years ago.

    Then you have the option of improving your build and your ability to avoid damage so that story becomes trivial. 99% of the playerbase has no problem completing story. That can be you too.

  • @Nikal.4921 said:
    This is story content. To tell a story, not prepare you for raids. I am thoroughly discouraged by the difficulty of story bosses and so hardly bother with them. I'd like to get the story line, so it's a real disappointment.

    Kinda late reply (lol), but I'd say it's more profitable, both for the player and ANET to have the story bosses be somewhat 'hard'. Just consider how large the step from solo instance PvE to raids & fractals & particularly PvP will be if no effort whatsoever is required on your part for half your first 100 or so hours.

    It can also strengthen the effect the narrative wants you to feel. Like vs Lazarus; killing the last mursaat? Hell ye it should feel like a lengthy uphill battle. These guys are major players, by no means should they feel like pushovers, it cheapens the gametime and your character.

  • Cuks.8241Cuks.8241 Member ✭✭✭

    I don't like the drop in difficulty, makes the game boring. I don't even remember the fights after the Krak fight in Thunderhead. Its not just the story, the latest meta is way to easy. Can it even fail? I haven't seen any dmg in the defense phase at all.

  • crepuscular.9047crepuscular.9047 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Anet might well make 2 mode
    option 1: quick time event mode, you just sit back and watch
    option 2: real gamer mode, HOT difficulty

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    Praise the Inevitable Eternal Transcendent King Palawa Ignacious Joko, the Beloved and Feared Undying Eternal Monarch of All !!!
    ... til Aurene ate him for dessert 😭
  • Dante.1508Dante.1508 Member ✭✭✭

    @kharmin.7683 said:

    @SexyMofo.8923 said:
    NONE of the pve story bosses are hard. I repeat: NONE. I am a solo player and I don’t recall needed help on any of them.

    Then you are very fortunate to have the skill and ability to manage them by yourself. Not everyone possesses such level skill or ability.

    This in my opinion.. And from talking to my guild in discord many others do not pass it either, a few ladies in discord never even leave core tyria.

  • Sarrs.4831Sarrs.4831 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 29, 2019

    Scruffy was just CC spam. Not really a fun fight. I like having hard boss fights tho tbh.

    What if Balthazar died by being tickled. Not much a god of war, is it? The game should expect you to be a competent player if your character is supposed to be competent, I think. The game shouldn't be shy about saying "hey you should pay attention to what's going on, maybe this boss will take you a couple of attempts"; that's fine also, oneshotting every boss makes the story have very little impact, I think.

    I totally get it when ANet says "it's really hard to design 'fair' boss fights when there's such a power range in gear". If some of this stuff is too hard, I kinda wonder what kind of gear people are wearing? I totally get it if I'm in a focused set of Ascended gear, fully infused with the correct infusions with a BiS set of sigils and runes, with multiple legendaries and a second Ascended gearset that grants more defensive stats... And the people who are saying 'this stuff is impossible' are in a mishmash of greens and yellows with no stat focus (and there are lots of people who do this!).

  • Deihnyx.6318Deihnyx.6318 Member ✭✭✭

    I don't understand how people can still be expecting easy fights 5 seasons and 2 expansions in. You had years and hundred of hours of content to learn the game mechanics and to adapt. Not all content should be readily available and beatable by newcomers.
    It's a story in a game. It's not a movie. Expect at least some time to adapt to new situation. That's also what makes some mechanics refreshing.
    Also no. It's nowhere near raid level. There's no point comparing it to raids.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Deihnyx.6318 said:
    I don't understand how people can still be expecting easy fights 5 seasons and 2 expansions in.

    Because thanks to the business model of the game you can skip the previous seasons (and even expansions) and proceed directly to the latest season. You don't need to finish any of the previous story, not even the personal story, to play the newest season episodes. The Icebrood Saga is clearly of a much lower challenge level than the expansions or past seasons, because the developers expect players to start from there apparently, ignoring 6 years of content.

  • Shikaru.7618Shikaru.7618 Member ✭✭✭

    @Dante.1508 said:

    @kharmin.7683 said:

    @SexyMofo.8923 said:
    NONE of the pve story bosses are hard. I repeat: NONE. I am a solo player and I don’t recall needed help on any of them.

    Then you are very fortunate to have the skill and ability to manage them by yourself. Not everyone possesses such level skill or ability.

    This in my opinion.. And from talking to my guild in discord many others do not pass it either, a few ladies in discord never even leave core tyria.

    Are these players also the reason why my trash exotics from raids with terrible dire, knights, rabid, magi stat combos sell?

    Maybe start there and get them an actual build in pve and a lot of the difficulty goes away. When enemies die before they can even attack, theres no difficulty to speak of.

  • @Dante.1508 said:

    @Shadowmoon.7986 said:
    I don't know how you can feel tense when the NPC's can kill the boss for you. I really don't understand how having player agency is now consider tedious. And if you can't do the content still, find a friend to help you. The content either doesn't scale or scales so poorly it is not noticeable. This is a MMO, not a single player walking simulator.

    No one wants to do it they've already done it years ago.

    Admit it you are just a troll. You can't be that bad :)
    Calling story bosses hard is the most hilarious joke I read today.
    I don't know how story bosses in this game can be easier. They need to die instantly when they see your character so you can watch your movie? This is a game btw, not a movie? Want to know the story? Go and watch it on youtube or twitch. If you can't kill story boss you don't deserve to learn the story from your playing, because you are not playing the game, you are watching a movie.

  • @Shikaru.7618 said:

    @Dante.1508 said:

    @kharmin.7683 said:

    @SexyMofo.8923 said:
    NONE of the pve story bosses are hard. I repeat: NONE. I am a solo player and I don’t recall needed help on any of them.

    Then you are very fortunate to have the skill and ability to manage them by yourself. Not everyone possesses such level skill or ability.

    This in my opinion.. And from talking to my guild in discord many others do not pass it either, a few ladies in discord never even leave core tyria.

    Are these players also the reason why my trash exotics from raids with terrible dire, knights, rabid, magi stat combos sell?

    Maybe start there and get them an actual build in pve and a lot of the difficulty goes away. When enemies die before they can even attack, theres no difficulty to speak of.

    quite hard if you are playing thief and cant deal enough damage solo without ascended gear to get the story done fast enough (additionally to thief lacking damage and CC in every possible way compared to "hundred blades spamming warriors" or anything else with tons of damage)

    oh right shouldnt speak about thief.... is just the only class to have seen only a single buff since the release of the game ^^

  • Shikaru.7618Shikaru.7618 Member ✭✭✭

    @Murtos.5342 said:

    @Shikaru.7618 said:

    @Dante.1508 said:

    @kharmin.7683 said:

    @SexyMofo.8923 said:
    NONE of the pve story bosses are hard. I repeat: NONE. I am a solo player and I don’t recall needed help on any of them.

    Then you are very fortunate to have the skill and ability to manage them by yourself. Not everyone possesses such level skill or ability.

    This in my opinion.. And from talking to my guild in discord many others do not pass it either, a few ladies in discord never even leave core tyria.

    Are these players also the reason why my trash exotics from raids with terrible dire, knights, rabid, magi stat combos sell?

    Maybe start there and get them an actual build in pve and a lot of the difficulty goes away. When enemies die before they can even attack, theres no difficulty to speak of.

    quite hard if you are playing thief and cant deal enough damage solo without ascended gear to get the story done fast enough (additionally to thief lacking damage and CC in every possible way compared to "hundred blades spamming warriors" or anything else with tons of damage)

    oh right shouldnt speak about thief.... is just the only class to have seen only a single buff since the release of the game ^^

    You must be joking. Thief has one of the highest amounts of health sustain in all of pve, has way higher damage than "hundred blades spamming warriors" as camping great sword is bad dps. Ascended gear isnt some magical fix all solution. If you do bad damage in your exotic gear, sorry to break it to you buddy but you're going to do bad damage in ascended gear too. Class knowledge, correct stat combos, and proper rotations matter way more than the upgrade from exotics to ascended.

  • @Shikaru.7618 said:

    @Murtos.5342 said:

    @Shikaru.7618 said:

    @Dante.1508 said:

    @kharmin.7683 said:

    @SexyMofo.8923 said:
    NONE of the pve story bosses are hard. I repeat: NONE. I am a solo player and I don’t recall needed help on any of them.

    Then you are very fortunate to have the skill and ability to manage them by yourself. Not everyone possesses such level skill or ability.

    This in my opinion.. And from talking to my guild in discord many others do not pass it either, a few ladies in discord never even leave core tyria.

    Are these players also the reason why my trash exotics from raids with terrible dire, knights, rabid, magi stat combos sell?

    Maybe start there and get them an actual build in pve and a lot of the difficulty goes away. When enemies die before they can even attack, theres no difficulty to speak of.

    quite hard if you are playing thief and cant deal enough damage solo without ascended gear to get the story done fast enough (additionally to thief lacking damage and CC in every possible way compared to "hundred blades spamming warriors" or anything else with tons of damage)

    oh right shouldnt speak about thief.... is just the only class to have seen only a single buff since the release of the game ^^

    You must be joking. Thief has one of the highest amounts of health sustain in all of pve, has way higher damage than "hundred blades spamming warriors" as camping great sword is bad dps. Ascended gear isnt some magical fix all solution. If you do bad damage in your exotic gear, sorry to break it to you buddy but you're going to do bad damage in ascended gear too. Class knowledge, correct stat combos, and proper rotations matter way more than the upgrade from exotics to ascended.

    Don't even try man, those players are too bad. I was going to write something like that, but there is no point. Those are the players MikeZ was talking about in one of his interview, where he said that many players are dealing 10 times less damage than average veteran player. This is why the game is a movie now, where you don't need to do anything, just walk around pressing 1 in random gear picking up loot. Those players are Anets focus right now and they still are not happy, because content is still too hard for them :)

  • They aren't hard - they are annoying!
    The worst thing about bosses is mechanic: spam all high damage skills -> die -> boss doesn't reset -> retry from checkpoint -> repeat until finished.
    Because of this I have no interest to do it right way, I can use other stats like marauder instead berserker, and such, but why?

    Plus actually I don't like, how aoes is displayed, like all floor goes red, dodge, next same in 5 seconds, dodge, what to do next, I ran out of dodges and I don't know if this red circles - oneshots or something, only applies conditions, or moderate damage that I can take without dying.
    So in the end you're supposed to know about this encounter, but without resetting bosses hp, you're not interested in it, because you can finish it by repeating from death. It's worst thing, even worse than spam 1 skill all the time.

    I think they can be easier, like boss having less hp, less aoe spam, but reset with every death, so you're encouraged to learn patterns from attacks, use different stats, stunbreaks, cleanses, stability and so on. And an ability to start fight right from the boss after leaving instance, would be needed.

    For example, I literally spent hours, to figure out, how to beat Liadri, what skills I need to do that, how mechanics works, and in the end it felt very satisfying - could not say that about bosses from LS3, POF, LS4 (only 2 I finished).

  • Bosses should be as hard as trying to solo dungeons (Like Honor of the Waves dungeon for example) but just a tiny bit more opportunity to improve and eventually win. It's thrilling to spend time on how to change your build so you can figure out how to beat the encounter. Then when you go back, you know exactly how to beat it because you spent so much time doing so. To me that is a great feeling and what a game should do...not only should encounters be challenging, but there should be legitimately interesting puzzles (think of legendary pokemon-esque puzzles) where it requires a real effort by the brain (rather than brawn) to figure out how to overcome a certain obstacle.

  • Clearly a troll, it's impossible that someone is complaing that some boss in some story instance is that hard

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    It depends on -which- boss we are talking about as some story bosses are over-tuned, for example the boss described in the OP, blanket statements like "all story is easy", or the reverse "all story is hard" aren't helping anyone.

  • @maddoctor.2738 said:
    It depends on -which- boss we are talking about as some story bosses are over-tuned, for example the boss described in the OP, blanket statements like "all story is easy", or the reverse "all story is hard" aren't helping anyone.

    All story is easy. Not just easy, VERY EASY. It is impossible to fail. If you fail in story, you are bad, VERY BAD.

  • Cuks.8241Cuks.8241 Member ✭✭✭

    @WIR BRAUCHEN ONE EIGHTY.4257 said:
    They aren't hard - they are annoying!
    The worst thing about bosses is mechanic: spam all high damage skills -> die -> boss doesn't reset -> retry from checkpoint -> repeat until finished.
    Because of this I have no interest to do it right way, I can use other stats like marauder instead berserker, and such, but why?

    Plus actually I don't like, how aoes is displayed, like all floor goes red, dodge, next same in 5 seconds, dodge, what to do next, I ran out of dodges and I don't know if this red circles - oneshots or something, only applies conditions, or moderate damage that I can take without dying.
    So in the end you're supposed to know about this encounter, but without resetting bosses hp, you're not interested in it, because you can finish it by repeating from death. It's worst thing, even worse than spam 1 skill all the time.

    I think they can be easier, like boss having less hp, less aoe spam, but reset with every death, so you're encouraged to learn patterns from attacks, use different stats, stunbreaks, cleanses, stability and so on. And an ability to start fight right from the boss after leaving instance, would be needed.

    For example, I literally spent hours, to figure out, how to beat Liadri, what skills I need to do that, how mechanics works, and in the end it felt very satisfying - could not say that about bosses from LS3, POF, LS4 (only 2 I finished).

    I would agree that boss fights should reset with death and we should learn mechanics to be able to beat them but if they made them easier because of that that would suck even more. They are already easy enough that I don't even remember when I died to one (I probably did a few times, but don't remember because it is so rare). Making them easier would just mean that people that play for the gaming experience and are skilled enough would 100 % one shot them all making them even more boring.
    Harder mode is the answer. Health reset on death and tuning them harder. Keep the normal mode at vanilla difficulty.

  • Ashantara.8731Ashantara.8731 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 30, 2019

    @Shadowmoon.7986 said:
    I don't know how you can feel tense when the NPC's can kill the boss for you.

    Tense atmosphere in story-telling <> challenging fights

    Two different pairs of shoes. Anyway, I hope that future story mission fights will pose a challenge again, regardless of some people's baseless complaints about the high level of difficulty (it's all about mechanics). Perhaps ANet can finally introduce an option where you can select the level of difficulty, then everyone would be happy. (I do understand that challenging fights are not doable for physically impaired players, so having an option would be nice.)

  • mindcircus.1506mindcircus.1506 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 30, 2019

    @Andoral.3619 said:

    @Dante.1508 said:

    @Shadowmoon.7986 said:
    I don't know how you can feel tense when the NPC's can kill the boss for you. I really don't understand how having player agency is now consider tedious. And if you can't do the content still, find a friend to help you. The content either doesn't scale or scales so poorly it is not noticeable. This is a MMO, not a single player walking simulator.

    No one wants to do it they've already done it years ago.

    Admit it you are just a troll. You can't be that bad :)
    Calling story bosses hard is the most hilarious joke I read today.

    I doubt they are trolling. I'm in a guild with such a person. They are likely being quite serious.
    Struggling with the story is not unheard of. I help a couple of people a week with story instances like Hearts and Minds, the Balthazaar fight, or any number of missions. Usually people politely call out in gchat looking for a hand because it's an MMO. In some cases however, people will lose their minds and say developers should be fired and then turn to the forums with passive-aggressive memes.
    The problem here is that this game coddles the player so hard from 1-80, protecting them from any potential breaking of the power-fantasy, that by the time they get to HoT they often find themselves overwhelmed. Imagine going from the Zhaitan fight where you quite literally press 1 to win, then go into the first episode of HoT with the snipers, and the vines. Maybe you've played the entire game solo to this point and that yellow Pact Weapon crate you got at the end of the personal story was a reelvant upgrade to your mainhand weapon.
    You have a few choices at that point:
    You can do a gutcheck and solve the issue yourself, learn how to gear in exotics and make a decent build.
    You can ask people for help because it's indeed an MMORPG and sometimes the best way to overcome an obstacle is with friends.
    or...
    You can join in on the "bad design" talk and blame someone else so as to maintain the power-fantasy and protect your own ego. Anyone who tells you that the fights in the post LWS2 are largely skill checks is an elitist telling you to "git gud". Anyone to recommend a proper gear set is just a "meta-slave". Those who actually manage these encounters are just exploiting power creep.
    The difference between these reactions depends largely on what kind of person you are and how you respond to defeat or challenge.
    You can write it off as trolling but this exact same attitude powers the majority of "balance" complaints on the competitive forums. Blaming the developers rather than accepting one's skill cap and focusing on improvement is just easier and maintains the power-fantasy.

    @Murtos.5342 said:
    quite hard if you are playing thief and cant deal enough damage solo without ascended gear to get the story done fast enough (additionally to thief lacking damage and CC in every possible way compared to "hundred blades spamming warriors" or anything else with tons of damage)

    oh right shouldnt speak about thief.... is just the only class to have seen only a single buff since the release of the game ^^

    Hearts and Minds can be easily soloed on a thief in greens. You could throw out every useful piece of gear the game gives you doing the personal story, dress in nothing but uncommons and still beat Mordremoth solo.

  • Dante.1508Dante.1508 Member ✭✭✭

    @Andoral.3619 said:

    @Dante.1508 said:

    @Shadowmoon.7986 said:
    I don't know how you can feel tense when the NPC's can kill the boss for you. I really don't understand how having player agency is now consider tedious. And if you can't do the content still, find a friend to help you. The content either doesn't scale or scales so poorly it is not noticeable. This is a MMO, not a single player walking simulator.

    No one wants to do it they've already done it years ago.

    Admit it you are just a troll. You can't be that bad :)
    Calling story bosses hard is the most hilarious joke I read today.
    I don't know how story bosses in this game can be easier. They need to die instantly when they see your character so you can watch your movie? This is a game btw, not a movie? Want to know the story? Go and watch it on youtube or twitch. If you can't kill story boss you don't deserve to learn the story from your playing, because you are not playing the game, you are watching a movie.

    Yeah because everyone has the exact same skill sets playing a game, you trying doing half these bosses with shaking hands and 600ms ping times then get back to me on how amazing you are..

    You are the one who is trolling.

  • Dante.1508Dante.1508 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 30, 2019

    @Andoral.3619 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    It depends on -which- boss we are talking about as some story bosses are over-tuned, for example the boss described in the OP, blanket statements like "all story is easy", or the reverse "all story is hard" aren't helping anyone.

    All story is easy. Not just easy, VERY EASY. It is impossible to fail. If you fail in story, you are bad, VERY BAD.

    Yeah but until you can empathize with others you don't really get to judge, not everyone has your skill levels or even wants it.. I'm here to enjoy a story and play a game casually after my real life, i'm not here to do raid lite just to see the next installment of what ever silly mechanics the devs think up next..

    Its not fun for me to be challenged in gaming, to me challenge in gaming is like beyond pointless.. I do not feel complete after doing this stuff i just feel run down and uninterested..

    @Shikaru.7618 said:

    @Dante.1508 said:

    @kharmin.7683 said:

    @SexyMofo.8923 said:
    NONE of the pve story bosses are hard. I repeat: NONE. I am a solo player and I don’t recall needed help on any of them.

    Then you are very fortunate to have the skill and ability to manage them by yourself. Not everyone possesses such level skill or ability.

    This in my opinion.. And from talking to my guild in discord many others do not pass it either, a few ladies in discord never even leave core tyria.

    Are these players also the reason why my trash exotics from raids with terrible dire, knights, rabid, magi stat combos sell?

    Maybe start there and get them an actual build in pve and a lot of the difficulty goes away. When enemies die before they can even attack, theres no difficulty to speak of.

    It has zero to do with the build, any one can get marauders, vipers or berserker gears and a build from metabattle, not everyone can acquire the skills to dodge 15 cc and 8k hits... yeah a few people playing games are top tier, pat yourselves on the back you are great at virtual entertainment twitch skills.. Grats..

    Thats why t4 Fractals and Raids exist.. go enjoy them i will not be there ruining them for you.

  • Ashantara.8731Ashantara.8731 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 30, 2019

    @Dante.1508 said:
    Yeah but until you can empathize with others you don't really get to judge, not everyone has your skill levels or even wants it.. I'm here to enjoy a story and play a game casually after my real life, i'm not here to do raid lite just to see the next installment of what ever silly mechanics the devs think up next..

    Its not fun for me to be challenged in gaming, to me challenge in gaming is like beyond pointless.. I do not feel complete after doing this stuff i just feel run down and uninterested..

    Then, by all means, please go play a different game. The GW franchise, which has always been about fight mechanics and challenges since its GW1 days, is not for players like you.

    @Dante.1508 said:
    Thats why t4 Fractals and Raids exist.. go enjoy them i will not be there ruining them for you.

    No, you just want to ruin story mission fights for the rest of us. Seriously, go try Hard Mode for story missions in GW1, then come back complaining. You'll probably find Normal Mode already to be too difficult.

  • kharmin.7683kharmin.7683 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 30, 2019

    @Ashantara.8731 said:
    Then, by all means, please go play a different game. The GW franchise, which has always been about fight mechanics and challenges since its GW1 days, is not for players like you.

    But yet, there is a general consensus that GW2 targets a more casual player, so perhaps those looking for increased challenges should be the ones looking toward different games?

    It does no good for our community at all to tell players to leave.

    I am a very casual player.
    Very.
    Casual.

  • Ashantara.8731Ashantara.8731 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 30, 2019

    @kharmin.7683 said:
    But yet, there is a general consensus that GW2 targets a more casual player, so perhaps those looking for increased challenges should be the ones looking toward different games?

    Why should we when, up until recently, the game has had challeging story mission fights? "A more casual playerbase" doesn't mean "kindergarten difficulty", it only means that you don't have to grind for hours each and every day to be able to get what you need in order to succeed in this game. It already is very casual-friendly.

    It does no good for our community at all to tell players to leave.

    It doesn't do the community any good to have content turned into kindergarten difficulty, either. It will have many players leave over it, because up until LWS5 we've always had challenging story mission fights. The sudden, recent change doesn't mean that this is the norm. What we had before, for many years, defines the norm.

  • kharmin.7683kharmin.7683 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ashantara.8731 said:
    It doesn't do the community any good to have content turned into kindergarten difficulty, either. It will have many players leave over it, because up until LWS4 we've always had challenging story mission content.

    Well, Anet has all of the data on player retention, so it would seem that these decisions are probably based on that. Still, if what you're saying is true about people leaving, then it doesn't help retain the population by telling others to leave the game.

    I am a very casual player.
    Very.
    Casual.

  • Ashantara.8731Ashantara.8731 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @kharmin.7683 said:
    Well, Anet has all of the data on player retention, so it would seem that these decisions are probably based on that. Still, if what you're saying is true about people leaving, then it doesn't help retain the population by telling others to leave the game.

    If they find it too difficult, what else am I supposed to tell them? They keep complaining about the way the game has been for over 5 years, so who should be looking for a different game then: the players who enjoyed the former level of difficulty or those who can't seem to handle it? Again, 5+ years of a decently high difficulty. If you can't handle it after five years, it is safe to assume that this isn't a game suited for your playstyle, no?

  • kharmin.7683kharmin.7683 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ashantara.8731 said:

    @kharmin.7683 said:
    Well, Anet has all of the data on player retention, so it would seem that these decisions are probably based on that. Still, if what you're saying is true about people leaving, then it doesn't help retain the population by telling others to leave the game.

    If they find it too difficult, what else am I supposed to tell them? They keep complaining about the way the game has been for over 5 years, so who should be looking for a different game then: the players who enjoyed the former level of difficulty or those who can't seem to handle it? Again, 5+ years of a decently high difficulty. If you can't handle it after five years, it is safe to assume that this isn't a game suited for your playstyle, no?

    Or, if a player finds it too easy and doesn't like the direction of the level of difficulty over those same five years maybe the game isn't suited to their playstyle? My point is that neither end of the spectrum is going to be satisfied with changes that run counter to the way that they enjoy GW2. Telling people to just leave is unhelpful, from either camp.

    And it's never safe to assume when neither side has all of the facts.

    I am a very casual player.
    Very.
    Casual.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @kharmin.7683 said:
    Well, Anet has all of the data on player retention, so it would seem that these decisions are probably based on that.

    I doubt the reduction in the challenge level of the Icebrood Saga has anything to do with some kind of "data". The way they market it and talk about it it's as if they want players to start with the Icebrood Saga and skip the rest of the game, which is understandable that's where all the old players will be. So this massive drop is there to better introduce players to the game with an extended tutorial. Where this kind of fails is that Path of Fire, the expansion required to play the Icebrood Saga, has higher difficulty fights than the Saga, as if telling players to skip even the expansion and go directly for the Season. It's a weird choice and I don't see it in any way being done for player retention, if someone finds Path of Fire too hard they'll leave already before touching the Saga, and those that liked the level of difficulty in Path of Fire will be confused at the massive drop in the Saga.

    Overall it's a weird choice and reminds me of Ember Bay, the second episode of Season 3 which was a joke difficulty-wise. And judging by Anet not doing another Ember Bay afterwards they got the data on how good that episode was for player activity and retention.

  • kharmin.7683kharmin.7683 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ashantara.8731 Look, I get where you're coming from, even though I am a "filthy casual" as some may call me. What bothers me about this entire argument is that GW2 is really the only MMO out of the many in that market that I can play. I have enough stress with real life work and enough calls on my time with family, kids and other obligations that I enjoy the few hours each week that I am able to get online with the game and decompress. I don't want/need the level of difficulty in a game that you advocate -- I have enough stress already. If I wanted/needed that level of challenge, then there are plenty of other MMOs from which I could choose.

    Both sides of this argument are passionate about the level of content that suits them. Unfortunately, it is difficult for any MMO to cater to them all. Those of us more casual players are fortunate to find one game out of many that we can manage.

    I honestly wish that there were an alternative that would suit both sides. Raids should have been it, but even so I feel that ANet missed the mark there, or perhaps diverted resources away from that content because their metrics showed it to be less profitable? Again, without the insider facts, no one really knows.

    I am a very casual player.
    Very.
    Casual.