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[Suggestion] Stop making Story Bosses Hard (LS4 Spoilers)

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  • Josiah.2967Josiah.2967 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Was this nerfed? I finally got around to doing the story. I have now one shot this boss on two melee toons. The first time I beat him, I assumed it wasn't the boss the forums were talking about...

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Josiah.2967 said:
    Was this nerfed? I finally got around to doing the story. I have now one shot this boss on two melee toons. The first time I beat him, I assumed it wasn't the boss the forums were talking about...

    Are you talking about eater of souls?
    Then yes it was nerfed hard but is still to hard for the lowest skilled players.

  • Josiah.2967Josiah.2967 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @Josiah.2967 said:
    Was this nerfed? I finally got around to doing the story. I have now one shot this boss on two melee toons. The first time I beat him, I assumed it wasn't the boss the forums were talking about...

    Are you talking about eater of souls?
    Then yes it was nerfed hard but is still to hard for the lowest skilled players.

    Got it... The only fight I would remove is Scruffy.
    A.) It is not fun
    B.) The fight is a plot hole

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Josiah.2967 said:

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @Josiah.2967 said:
    Was this nerfed? I finally got around to doing the story. I have now one shot this boss on two melee toons. The first time I beat him, I assumed it wasn't the boss the forums were talking about...

    Are you talking about eater of souls?
    Then yes it was nerfed hard but is still to hard for the lowest skilled players.

    Got it... The only fight I would remove is Scruffy.
    A.) It is not fun
    B.) The fight is a plot hole

    How is it a plot hole?

    It’s also an easy fight if not going for the achievement.

  • Josiah.2967Josiah.2967 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Josiah.2967 said:

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @Josiah.2967 said:
    Was this nerfed? I finally got around to doing the story. I have now one shot this boss on two melee toons. The first time I beat him, I assumed it wasn't the boss the forums were talking about...

    Are you talking about eater of souls?
    Then yes it was nerfed hard but is still to hard for the lowest skilled players.

    Got it... The only fight I would remove is Scruffy.
    A.) It is not fun
    B.) The fight is a plot hole

    How is it a plot hole?

    It’s also an easy fight if not going for the achievement.

    Scruffy is only vulnerable to one thing. Dragons are no match for Scruffy.

  • Ashantara.8731Ashantara.8731 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I miss challenging story fights in Season 5 (Icebrood Saga). I really hope they will return with upcoming episodes. I also hope that ANet will implement a difficulty level switch for story fights so that the whining will end.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 10, 2019

    @kharmin.7683 said:
    Where I have an issue is with the calls to change the difficulty for other content in the game.

    Same, that's why threads like this one are confusing as they call to change the difficulty of the game's story. The thing is, at least in the recent parts of this thread regarding the Icebrood Saga story difficulty, there is a "call", if you want to call it that, to keep the difficulty as it was for the last 7 years. Not to increase it, but rather to stop decreasing it. There is an alarming trend in the last two episodes of the Icebrood Saga (Prologue and Episode 1) of making story instances walking simulators and I really wish Arenanet reconsiders this for their future episodes.

  • The story bosses are tedious as hell for numerous reasons and are infuriating when they bug. Keep the mechanics, lower the health, have the cc of the adds not last two hours a shot, Bob's yer uncle.

    The Commander will end you.

  • Nephalem.8921Nephalem.8921 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @thepenmonster.3621 said:
    The story bosses are tedious as hell for numerous reasons and are infuriating when they bug. Keep the mechanics, lower the health, have the cc of the adds not last two hours a shot, Bob's yer uncle.

    Story bosses already phase in one dps rotation. How fast are they supposed to die. The problem is that so many players run no dps garbage builds. Its impossible to balance when a proper power chrono can do 600k damage in like 20sec and a power shortbow ranger needs 4min+ for that.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Josiah.2967 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Josiah.2967 said:

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @Josiah.2967 said:
    Was this nerfed? I finally got around to doing the story. I have now one shot this boss on two melee toons. The first time I beat him, I assumed it wasn't the boss the forums were talking about...

    Are you talking about eater of souls?
    Then yes it was nerfed hard but is still to hard for the lowest skilled players.

    Got it... The only fight I would remove is Scruffy.
    A.) It is not fun
    B.) The fight is a plot hole

    How is it a plot hole?

    It’s also an easy fight if not going for the achievement.

    Scruffy is only vulnerable to one thing. Dragons are no match for Scruffy.

    That’s a very big leap to make that assumption.

  • Josiah.2967Josiah.2967 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Josiah.2967 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Josiah.2967 said:

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @Josiah.2967 said:
    Was this nerfed? I finally got around to doing the story. I have now one shot this boss on two melee toons. The first time I beat him, I assumed it wasn't the boss the forums were talking about...

    Are you talking about eater of souls?
    Then yes it was nerfed hard but is still to hard for the lowest skilled players.

    Got it... The only fight I would remove is Scruffy.
    A.) It is not fun
    B.) The fight is a plot hole

    How is it a plot hole?

    It’s also an easy fight if not going for the achievement.

    Scruffy is only vulnerable to one thing. Dragons are no match for Scruffy.

    That’s a very big leap to make that assumption.

    Do the fight again. You will see.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Josiah.2967 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Josiah.2967 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Josiah.2967 said:

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @Josiah.2967 said:
    Was this nerfed? I finally got around to doing the story. I have now one shot this boss on two melee toons. The first time I beat him, I assumed it wasn't the boss the forums were talking about...

    Are you talking about eater of souls?
    Then yes it was nerfed hard but is still to hard for the lowest skilled players.

    Got it... The only fight I would remove is Scruffy.
    A.) It is not fun
    B.) The fight is a plot hole

    How is it a plot hole?

    It’s also an easy fight if not going for the achievement.

    Scruffy is only vulnerable to one thing. Dragons are no match for Scruffy.

    That’s a very big leap to make that assumption.

    Do the fight again. You will see.

    I watched a video of it the other day. You’re still making a very big leap with that assumption. It’s along the same line as making the assumption that the only way to defeat Zhaitan was with cannons.

  • Lilyanna.9361Lilyanna.9361 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Murtos.5342 said:

    @Shikaru.7618 said:

    @Dante.1508 said:

    @kharmin.7683 said:

    @SexyMofo.8923 said:
    NONE of the pve story bosses are hard. I repeat: NONE. I am a solo player and I don’t recall needed help on any of them.

    Then you are very fortunate to have the skill and ability to manage them by yourself. Not everyone possesses such level skill or ability.

    This in my opinion.. And from talking to my guild in discord many others do not pass it either, a few ladies in discord never even leave core tyria.

    Are these players also the reason why my trash exotics from raids with terrible dire, knights, rabid, magi stat combos sell?

    Maybe start there and get them an actual build in pve and a lot of the difficulty goes away. When enemies die before they can even attack, theres no difficulty to speak of.

    quite hard if you are playing thief and cant deal enough damage solo without ascended gear to get the story done fast enough (additionally to thief lacking damage and CC in every possible way compared to "hundred blades spamming warriors" or anything else with tons of damage)

    oh right shouldnt speak about thief.... is just the only class to have seen only a single buff since the release of the game ^^

    That's a lie. I play core and Daredevil thief in full Zerk without issues. Exotics. We call these issues excuses, not actual reasons.

  • Dante.1763Dante.1763 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Nephalem.8921 said:

    @thepenmonster.3621 said:
    The story bosses are tedious as hell for numerous reasons and are infuriating when they bug. Keep the mechanics, lower the health, have the cc of the adds not last two hours a shot, Bob's yer uncle.

    Story bosses already phase in one dps rotation. How fast are they supposed to die. The problem is that so many players run no dps garbage builds. Its impossible to balance when a proper power chrono can do 600k damage in like 20sec and a power shortbow ranger needs 4min+ for that.

    i mean a condi SB ranger doesnt do that much DPS either...

    Amana Silentchild; My Main
    Ember Wandertooth; The Kingslayer, Kianda Redpaw; The Blazing Light
    Why GW is Called Guildwars

  • Shikaru.7618Shikaru.7618 Member ✭✭✭

    @Dante.1763 said:

    @Nephalem.8921 said:

    @thepenmonster.3621 said:
    The story bosses are tedious as hell for numerous reasons and are infuriating when they bug. Keep the mechanics, lower the health, have the cc of the adds not last two hours a shot, Bob's yer uncle.

    Story bosses already phase in one dps rotation. How fast are they supposed to die. The problem is that so many players run no dps garbage builds. Its impossible to balance when a proper power chrono can do 600k damage in like 20sec and a power shortbow ranger needs 4min+ for that.

    i mean a condi SB ranger doesnt do that much DPS either...

    Condi sb ranger does plenty of damage for story purposes. It has higher ramp up time but you should still expect to get decent clear speeds. In raid scenarios condi sb benches at 30k dps which is plenty to fly through story.

  • Nephalem.8921Nephalem.8921 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Shikaru.7618 said:

    @Dante.1763 said:

    @Nephalem.8921 said:

    @thepenmonster.3621 said:
    The story bosses are tedious as hell for numerous reasons and are infuriating when they bug. Keep the mechanics, lower the health, have the cc of the adds not last two hours a shot, Bob's yer uncle.

    Story bosses already phase in one dps rotation. How fast are they supposed to die. The problem is that so many players run no dps garbage builds. Its impossible to balance when a proper power chrono can do 600k damage in like 20sec and a power shortbow ranger needs 4min+ for that.

    i mean a condi SB ranger doesnt do that much DPS either...

    Condi sb ranger does plenty of damage for story purposes. It has higher ramp up time but you should still expect to get decent clear speeds. In raid scenarios condi sb benches at 30k dps which is plenty to fly through story.

    you cant really flank solo which lowers sb dps quite a lot. would just go power raid slb with stab stance. burst does so much damage that story should be easy

  • Aaralyna.3104Aaralyna.3104 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I find the story bosses to be generally easy. As solo player you can sometimes struggle but thats usually because you don't know the mechanics yet or you don't apply skills that can help you (like CC, dodge/block). Usually this doesn't make you fail a boss but just lets it go on longer. NPC's even res you/help you or even do the fight fully automatic solo if you just stand and watch. Making use of the surroundings also helps a big deal very often (get out of line of sight behind a pillar, grab things on floor that do CC, etc). And if you really struggle you can ask up to 4 other players for a hand. All bosses seem to be develloped to clear as solo player (CM mode apart). Everything is possible with exotic items without runes/sigils, without foods/enhancements and without actually having a good build setup. Dungeons, Fractals, Raids and Strike Missions does need you to step up your game a bit and may not be for everyone but it is not content where you will loose out on something (apart from achievements). I am sure there are players that say they cannot do such content as they feel like they can't while they have never actually tried it out and I am sure that there will be players among this group that can actually do such content (even if its story mode dungeons and t1 fractals or beginner strike (grothmar/wintersday festival one in example)... But such instanced content you simply do not solo, you do with a team of players.

  • Dante.1763Dante.1763 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Nephalem.8921 said:

    @Shikaru.7618 said:

    @Dante.1763 said:

    @Nephalem.8921 said:

    @thepenmonster.3621 said:
    The story bosses are tedious as hell for numerous reasons and are infuriating when they bug. Keep the mechanics, lower the health, have the cc of the adds not last two hours a shot, Bob's yer uncle.

    Story bosses already phase in one dps rotation. How fast are they supposed to die. The problem is that so many players run no dps garbage builds. Its impossible to balance when a proper power chrono can do 600k damage in like 20sec and a power shortbow ranger needs 4min+ for that.

    i mean a condi SB ranger doesnt do that much DPS either...

    Condi sb ranger does plenty of damage for story purposes. It has higher ramp up time but you should still expect to get decent clear speeds. In raid scenarios condi sb benches at 30k dps which is plenty to fly through story.

    you cant really flank solo which lowers sb dps quite a lot. would just go power raid slb with stab stance. burst does so much damage that story should be easy

    Its easy on Condi SB too. I never see more than 16-17k DPS(no matter the mode) if i try really hard to obtain that though, so it does take -very slightly longer- to kill something.

    Amana Silentchild; My Main
    Ember Wandertooth; The Kingslayer, Kianda Redpaw; The Blazing Light
    Why GW is Called Guildwars

  • Shikaru.7618Shikaru.7618 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 12, 2019

    @thepenmonster.3621 said:

    @voltaicbore.8012 said:
    What I have absolutely zero empathy for is the feeling that some of the above individuals have, namely that their level of gameplay should somehow set the standard for discussion...

    This is the correct take.

    @Ashantara.8731 said:
    I am an old school pen & paper role-player

    Hey! Me too!

    and there is no real adventure without epic fights.

    Long fights were the least enjoyable aspect of playing for me so I tune out when it happens. Great time to do some drawing. As the snarky saying goes: I'm a role-player not a roll-player.

    But here's the thing- If I spent all of my time telling the roll-players they're doing it wrong they would have every right to think I'm an kitten and not want to play with me because (Are you ready to have your mind blown?) I was being and kitten who was always telling them they're playing wrong.

    This is also why no one wants to leave open world and go play raids, PvP and fractals with all of you. Not that they're lazy carebear players. Because you guys, self-appointed representatives of those modes and champions of harder mobs, always behave like unappealing playmates.

    Unappealing slices both ways. When Newbies join these game modes, are asked to change to adapt to the game mode, but they refuse to abide by the team, that makes them the unappealing playmate who then goes on to broadcast how toxic raiders are.

  • Murtos.5342Murtos.5342 Member ✭✭
    edited December 12, 2019

    @Shikaru.7618 said:

    @thepenmonster.3621 said:

    @voltaicbore.8012 said:
    What I have absolutely zero empathy for is the feeling that some of the above individuals have, namely that their level of gameplay should somehow set the standard for discussion...

    This is the correct take.

    @Ashantara.8731 said:
    I am an old school pen & paper role-player

    Hey! Me too!

    and there is no real adventure without epic fights.

    Long fights were the least enjoyable aspect of playing for me so I tune out when it happens. Great time to do some drawing. As the snarky saying goes: I'm a role-player not a roll-player.

    But here's the thing- If I spent all of my time telling the roll-players they're doing it wrong they would have every right to think I'm an kitten and not want to play with me because (Are you ready to have your mind blown?) I was being and kitten who was always telling them they're playing wrong.

    This is also why no one wants to leave open world and go play raids, PvP and fractals with all of you. Not that they're lazy carebear players. Because you guys, self-appointed representatives of those modes and champions of harder mobs, always behave like unappealing playmates.

    Unappealing slices both ways. When Newbies join these game modes, are asked to change to adapt to the game mode, but they refuse to abide by the team, that makes them the unappealing playmate who then goes on to broadcast how toxic raiders are.

    yeah always fun when you try to raid in exotic gear just to get kicked out by those ASCENDED GEAR ONLY elitists but so many people keep saying those dont exist ^^
    and i dont think too many newbies gonna have ascended gear when they get to trying to do raids

  • Nephalem.8921Nephalem.8921 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Murtos.5342 said:
    yeah always fun when you try to raid in exotic gear just to get kicked out by those ASCENDED GEAR ONLY elitists but so many people keep saying those dont exist ^^
    and i dont think too many newbies gonna have ascended gear when they get to trying to do raids

    I've never seen somebody getting kicked for using exotic gear.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 13, 2019

    @Ashantara.8731 said:

    @Svarty.8019 said:
    I mod Dragon Age Inquisition, and I'm surprised how popular the "Skip Fights" mod has been. Even story mode in that game is easy. A lot of people just want to experience the story, not be forced into some silly dance in World of Circlecraft (AGAIN!).

    There are plenty of walking simulators with a story out there...

    Edit: I am an old school pen & paper role-player, and there is no real adventure without epic fights. If you don't want challenging fights, don't play RPGs, MMO or otherwise.

    Oh, i am an old school pen & paper roleplayer as well. And you know what made those games so fun for me? The challenge was a challenge of the mind, not of the hands. So, something completely opposite of arcade games.
    Requiring faster reaction time and faster keypressing doesn't make the fight epic. Not to me, at least.

    (completely aside, in pen & paper RPGs you very much can make a real adventure without epic fights, or without fighting at all. Some of the greatest rpg sessions i have played in included players finding a solution that made them avoid the fight, and still solve the problem)

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Its a simple fix, apply a sliding difficulty bar that the player can set their desired difficulty for their own story instances. It's not like the rewards from story instances are all that amazing to start with so it doesn't really matter. Then the players who are "zomg git gud baddie" can have their "challenging" story boss to make themselves feel uber leet, and the people who want a simpler fight scenario can do so without it affecting anything else outside their solo experience.

    The Witcher had a difficulty adjustment system that allowed players to play the game at a difficulty of their choosing and was heralded as one of the greatest games of all time. I see no reason that we couldn't have the same thing here if that's what would make the players happy. Being able to adjust difficulty on a SOLO instance would have no affect from one player to another. If you do it on the highest difficulty then great for you, if someone else does it on the lowest difficulty then hey great for them. One does not affect the other.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Rubedo.8769 said:
    Its a simple fix, apply a sliding difficulty bar that the player can set their desired difficulty for their own story instances. It's not like the rewards from story instances are all that amazing to start with so it doesn't really matter. Then the players who are "zomg git gud baddie" can have their "challenging" story boss to make themselves feel uber leet, and the people who want a simpler fight scenario can do so without it affecting anything else outside their solo experience.

    The Witcher had a difficulty adjustment system that allowed players to play the game at a difficulty of their choosing and was heralded as one of the greatest games of all time. I see no reason that we couldn't have the same thing here if that's what would make the players happy. Being able to adjust difficulty on a SOLO instance would have no affect from one player to another. If you do it on the highest difficulty then great for you, if someone else does it on the lowest difficulty then hey great for them. One does not affect the other.

    Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe the difficulty slider in games like Witcher all they do is increase mob damage and health and maybe affect spawn numbers. That wouldn't make story fights in GW2 more challenging. Just take a look at that encounter where the commander and Braham fight those charr soldiers in the Prologue. No amount of tinkering with health and damage would make that fight enjoyable/challenging, they were sacks of health ready to be beaten.

    Such a slider is a lazy designer's option that might work well in a single player game, but it's hardly actual "difficulty". And doing a pass on all instances to give proper mechanics and skills to all encounters in a "difficult" mode would be unrealistic as it would take too much work for very little gain.

  • Rubedo.8769Rubedo.8769 Member ✭✭
    edited December 13, 2019

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Rubedo.8769 said:
    Its a simple fix, apply a sliding difficulty bar that the player can set their desired difficulty for their own story instances. It's not like the rewards from story instances are all that amazing to start with so it doesn't really matter. Then the players who are "zomg git gud baddie" can have their "challenging" story boss to make themselves feel uber leet, and the people who want a simpler fight scenario can do so without it affecting anything else outside their solo experience.

    The Witcher had a difficulty adjustment system that allowed players to play the game at a difficulty of their choosing and was heralded as one of the greatest games of all time. I see no reason that we couldn't have the same thing here if that's what would make the players happy. Being able to adjust difficulty on a SOLO instance would have no affect from one player to another. If you do it on the highest difficulty then great for you, if someone else does it on the lowest difficulty then hey great for them. One does not affect the other.

    Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe the difficulty slider in games like Witcher all they do is increase mob damage and health and maybe affect spawn numbers. That wouldn't make story fights in GW2 more challenging. Just take a look at that encounter where the commander and Braham fight those charr soldiers in the Prologue. No amount of tinkering with health and damage would make that fight enjoyable/challenging, they were sacks of health ready to be beaten.

    Such a slider is a lazy designer's option that might work well in a single player game, but it's hardly actual "difficulty". And doing a pass on all instances to give proper mechanics and skills to all encounters in a "difficult" mode would be unrealistic as it would take too much work for very little gain.

    Mechanics wouldn't really need to change with a difficulty selector, just the mob hp and damage done by the npcs could be affected. (Obviously something like this would need playtesting, rough drafts, etc...to perfect the right balance between mechanics and mob scaling, but it could be done.) Also going back to readjust the old solo instances could provide gain for the game itself, especially with the base game being free. Revamping old content would help new players, since they are the target audience for the older solo content. Right now if a player downloads the game and finds something in a solo instance too difficult on the first try in the current system they just stop playing the game and uninstall. That doesn't help the game at all. If the game wants to survive it has to draw in new players, and telling people if their struggling with something to "git gud" does not build a decent community or draw in new players. I'm not saying that you personally would say that to someone asking for help but just looking through the forums will show you that there are a lot of people who would. Now if the player could adjust their difficulty to something slightly easier until their more knowledgeable with the game systems and mechanics it could keep them interested.

    People need to lose this mindset that if something is fine for them then its perfectly acceptable for everyone and nothing should change and no other opinion should matter. Everything can be improved in some way or another. If something like this were implemented in solo instances only it would have zero affect outside of that particular player. It wouldn't matter if you did it on the hardest difficulty and someone else did it on easiest difficulty.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 13, 2019

    @Rubedo.8769 said:
    Mechanics wouldn't really need to change with a difficulty selector, just the mob hp and damage done by the npcs could be affected.

    Exactly why it's a worthless change, increasing mob health and damage would in no way make fights more exciting and interesting when mobs already lack any skills and capabilities. A Smokescale has half the health of a Risen Thrall in Orr, yet it's way more challenging foe, a Pocket Raptor has almost 1/4th the health of a Risen Thrall yet it's a more challenging foe as well. Mechanics is what makes content interesting it's why Season 4 has interesting fights, while Season 5 so far has terrible fights.

    Edit: The thread is about a Season 4 encounter, by that point the "new" player would have already played the story of both expansions (or at least one of them) and have some experience with the game's mechanics. Or at least they should. Thanks to how the game is designed and monetized a player can skip everything and go directly to the latest story, ignoring all previous content. Which is why I believe the Icebrood Saga is as terrible (challenge wise) as it is, Arenanet expects players to start playing the game with that Prologue, ignoring the rest of the game.

  • @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Rubedo.8769 said:
    Mechanics wouldn't really need to change with a difficulty selector, just the mob hp and damage done by the npcs could be affected.

    Exactly why it's a worthless change, increasing mob health and damage would in no way make fights more exciting and interesting when mobs already lack any skills and capabilities. A Smokescale has half the health of a Risen Thrall in Orr, yet it's way more challenging foe, a Pocket Raptor has almost 1/4th the health of a Risen Thrall yet it's a more challenging foe as well. Mechanics is what makes content interesting it's why Season 4 has interesting fights, while Season 5 is terrible

    What most people that want some kind of way to reduce difficulty aren't concerned with more interesting or exciting fights. Most want a simplified fight that they can actually enjoy the story itself and the exploration of the story instances. If you use the current boss fight levels are the "challenging" level of play then keep that as the hardcore version then give players to option to tone that back a little bit if their more a story driven player.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Rubedo.8769 said:
    What most people that want some kind of way to reduce difficulty aren't concerned with more interesting or exciting fights.

    They should check the Icebrood Saga then

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Rubedo.8769 said:
    What effect does it have on you personally if someone else plays the solo portion of the game on a simpler difficulty than you did?

    Two words: wasted developer resources. We are talking about 2+ year old content, Daybreak was released in November 2017.

    telling people they can't play just because maybe their not as good as you is a pretty terrible way to encourage new people to try the game out.

    This isn't about encounters at the beginning of the game but encounters -after- the ending of the story. Unless of course what you are after is to make the Personal Story easier for some reason. Furthermore, with Path of Fire Arenanet made it literally impossible to fail encounters anymore.

  • @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Rubedo.8769 said:
    What effect does it have on you personally if someone else plays the solo portion of the game on a simpler difficulty than you did?

    Two words: wasted developer resources. We are talking about 2+ year old content, Daybreak was released in November 2017.

    telling people they can't play just because maybe their not as good as you is a pretty terrible way to encourage new people to try the game out.

    This isn't about encounters at the beginning of the game but encounters -after- the ending of the story. Unless of course what you are after is to make the Personal Story easier for some reason. Furthermore, with Path of Fire Arenanet made it literally impossible to fail encounters anymore.

    Its not really wasted developer resources if it gets new blood into the game, and revamping old content to give more options to new players is never a bad thing if it brings players into the game, or brings players who quit back. I'm still not sure why anyone would be against giving players more options but i mean, thats your feelings on the subject.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 13, 2019

    @Murtos.5342 said:

    @Shikaru.7618 said:

    @thepenmonster.3621 said:

    @voltaicbore.8012 said:
    What I have absolutely zero empathy for is the feeling that some of the above individuals have, namely that their level of gameplay should somehow set the standard for discussion...

    This is the correct take.

    @Ashantara.8731 said:
    I am an old school pen & paper role-player

    Hey! Me too!

    and there is no real adventure without epic fights.

    Long fights were the least enjoyable aspect of playing for me so I tune out when it happens. Great time to do some drawing. As the snarky saying goes: I'm a role-player not a roll-player.

    But here's the thing- If I spent all of my time telling the roll-players they're doing it wrong they would have every right to think I'm an kitten and not want to play with me because (Are you ready to have your mind blown?) I was being and kitten who was always telling them they're playing wrong.

    This is also why no one wants to leave open world and go play raids, PvP and fractals with all of you. Not that they're lazy carebear players. Because you guys, self-appointed representatives of those modes and champions of harder mobs, always behave like unappealing playmates.

    Unappealing slices both ways. When Newbies join these game modes, are asked to change to adapt to the game mode, but they refuse to abide by the team, that makes them the unappealing playmate who then goes on to broadcast how toxic raiders are.

    yeah always fun when you try to raid in exotic gear just to get kicked out by those ASCENDED GEAR ONLY elitists but so many people keep saying those dont exist ^^
    and i dont think too many newbies gonna have ascended gear when they get to trying to do raids

    I am over 2k LI+LD combined and I have never seen anyone get kicked for wearing exotic gear.

    I have seen people get kicked for poor performance or lack of knowing mechanics in higher tier groups.

    If this happened it certainly was a fluke. If it keeps happening, you gear is not the issue.

  • mindcircus.1506mindcircus.1506 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Rubedo.8769 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Rubedo.8769 said:
    What effect does it have on you personally if someone else plays the solo portion of the game on a simpler difficulty than you did?

    Two words: wasted developer resources. We are talking about 2+ year old content, Daybreak was released in November 2017.

    telling people they can't play just because maybe their not as good as you is a pretty terrible way to encourage new people to try the game out.

    This isn't about encounters at the beginning of the game but encounters -after- the ending of the story. Unless of course what you are after is to make the Personal Story easier for some reason. Furthermore, with Path of Fire Arenanet made it literally impossible to fail encounters anymore.

    Its not really wasted developer resources if it gets new blood into the game, and revamping old content to give more options to new players is never a bad thing if it brings players into the game, or brings players who quit back. I'm still not sure why anyone would be against giving players more options but i mean, thats your feelings on the subject.

    "Our Easiest Content yet!"
    "Ten Man instances that can be solo'ed!"
    "Story missions without Mechanics!"
    "Open world maps with ZERO ambient threat!"

    You really think these are good selling points for the franchise?

    "We recognize that some players are not able to complete all content." Gaile Gray 01.10.19

  • Ashantara.8731Ashantara.8731 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Astralporing.1957 said:
    Oh, i am an old school pen & paper roleplayer as well. And you know what made those games so fun for me? The challenge was a challenge of the mind, not of the hands.

    Of course it was, since pen & paper is based on a sharp mind as well as the luck of the dice. Secrets and puzzles are the best part of it.

    So, something completely opposite of arcade games.

    Exactly. Then don't play computer games if they are too difficult to you? Just a thought.

    Requiring faster reaction time and faster keypressing doesn't make the fight epic. Not to me, at least.

    I'm already at an age were people are considered to be "slower" than the youth. GW2 has fights that depend on a sharp mind as well (see Liadri 8 orbs), not merely on reaction time, and computer games cannot be compared to pen & paper game mechanics. Like I said, if you don't want the challenge of skilled combat play different games. I've just started "The Talos Principle" and can recommend it.

    By the way, the fights in GW2 we are talking about don't require the fastest of reflexes but rather the will to actually use your mind and learn a couple of basics, which aren't hard to grasp.

    completely aside, in pen & paper RPGs you very much can make a real adventure without epic fights

    Of course you can, but if you are playing a lengthy campaign, there is no circumventing every fight, especially not in the classic fantasy genre.

    Some of the greatest rpg sessions i have played in included players finding a solution that made them avoid the fight, and still solve the problem)

    Agreed, but Guild Wars (as the title implies) is not pen & paper and certainly not a game about peace-loving. Fights are fundamental to it since GW1, and if you don't like it, that's not the developers' nor the other players' problem. No one is forcing you to play the game, go play detective adventures instead - however, even many of those require skilled fingers in certain situations, for instance when you tail a suspect.

  • Rubedo.8769Rubedo.8769 Member ✭✭
    edited December 13, 2019

    @mindcircus.1506 said:

    @Rubedo.8769 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Rubedo.8769 said:
    What effect does it have on you personally if someone else plays the solo portion of the game on a simpler difficulty than you did?

    Two words: wasted developer resources. We are talking about 2+ year old content, Daybreak was released in November 2017.

    telling people they can't play just because maybe their not as good as you is a pretty terrible way to encourage new people to try the game out.

    This isn't about encounters at the beginning of the game but encounters -after- the ending of the story. Unless of course what you are after is to make the Personal Story easier for some reason. Furthermore, with Path of Fire Arenanet made it literally impossible to fail encounters anymore.

    Its not really wasted developer resources if it gets new blood into the game, and revamping old content to give more options to new players is never a bad thing if it brings players into the game, or brings players who quit back. I'm still not sure why anyone would be against giving players more options but i mean, thats your feelings on the subject.

    "Our Easiest Content yet!"
    "Ten Man instances that can be solo'ed!"
    "Story missions without Mechanics!"
    "Open world maps with ZERO ambient threat!"

    You really think these are good selling points for the franchise?

    You obviously didn't read any of what was said earlier in the thread, I never said anything about changing group content, actually I stated that group content should remain the same, the only things that could be tuned would be the players SOLO STORY INSTANCES which has zero affect on anyone elses gameplay, if you want to do the harder content so you can show off your giant e-kitten then by all means, but allow other players to play on a more tuned down version to also enjoy the story more than the mechanics if they so choose.

  • mindcircus.1506mindcircus.1506 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 13, 2019

    @Rubedo.8769 said:

    @mindcircus.1506 said:

    @Rubedo.8769 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Rubedo.8769 said:
    What effect does it have on you personally if someone else plays the solo portion of the game on a simpler difficulty than you did?

    Two words: wasted developer resources. We are talking about 2+ year old content, Daybreak was released in November 2017.

    telling people they can't play just because maybe their not as good as you is a pretty terrible way to encourage new people to try the game out.

    This isn't about encounters at the beginning of the game but encounters -after- the ending of the story. Unless of course what you are after is to make the Personal Story easier for some reason. Furthermore, with Path of Fire Arenanet made it literally impossible to fail encounters anymore.

    Its not really wasted developer resources if it gets new blood into the game, and revamping old content to give more options to new players is never a bad thing if it brings players into the game, or brings players who quit back. I'm still not sure why anyone would be against giving players more options but i mean, thats your feelings on the subject.

    "Our Easiest Content yet!"
    "Ten Man instances that can be solo'ed!"
    "Story missions without Mechanics!"
    "Open world maps with ZERO ambient threat!"

    You really think these are good selling points for the franchise?

    You obviously didn't read any of what was said earlier in the thread, I never said anything about changing group content, actually I stated that group content should remain the same, the only things that could be tuned would be the players SOLO STORY INSTANCES which has zero affect on anyone elses gameplay, if you want to do the harder content so you can show off your giant e-kitten then by all means, but allow other players to play on a more tuned down version to also enjoy the story more than the mechanics if they so choose.

    "Hey Mind, I hear you play a lot of GW2. I was thinking of picking it up. Have they added anything cool lately?"
    "Oh totally, they've spent they last three dev cycles, retooling all their old story instances to make them easy enough that people who can't be bothered to dodge red circles can do them without slotting decent armor or using a solid build. So now not only are there no fail conditions like before, all you have to do is watch NPCs complete the fights for you."
    "COOL!! How much is Path of Fire again?"

    Making these story instances even easier than they already are wont be bringing anyone to this game. It would delay content to an existing playerbase that has already had the amount of content drasticallyreduced over the past 12 months.
    You can paint the desire many have for a meaningful gaming experience as some kind of ego issue all you like. Some of us want to play a game, not metagame by browbeating the developers on the forums into making a series of cutscenes with loot.

    "We recognize that some players are not able to complete all content." Gaile Gray 01.10.19

  • The whole Storyline nonsense is completely jumping the shark.
    The Personal, Season 2, 3, 4, HoT, and PoF storylines are totally and completely lame.
    The lack of imagination on the part of GW2 developers is wildly evident.

  • "Hey Mind, I hear you play a lot of GW2. I was thinking of picking it up. Have they added anything cool lately?"
    "Oh totally, they've spent they last three dev cycles, retooling all their old story instances to make them easy enough that people who can't be bothered to dodge red circles can do them without slotting decent armor or using a solid build. So now not only are there no fail conditions like before, all you have to do is watch NPCs complete the fights for you."
    "COOL!! How much is Path of Fire again?"

    Making these story instances even easier than they already are wont be bringing anyone to this game. It would delay content to an existing playerbase that has already had the amount of content drasticallyreduced over the past 12 months.
    You can paint the desire many have for a meaningful gaming experience as some kind of ego issue all you like. Some of us want to play a game, not metagame by browbeating the developers on the forums into making a series of cutscenes with loot.

    And yet again, you completely ignore what I actually said. It would be a optional difficulty change, like I said, if you want to do the content currently as it is and show off just how great you are to stroke your precious ego then by all means, do that. But since when was giving people options a terrible thing in an MMO? What effect does someone else doing their own solo instances in a different way from you in any way detract from your gameplay? I'll answer for you, it doesn't. Not all players are uber leet like you, so some players would appreciate at least having that option. Some players don't like having to go out third party websites for cookie cutter builds to clear content and would prefer to play how they find fun, and would like the options to do so in SOLO content that doesn't effect anyone else.

    But please, continue to show how much you want the game catered to you and only you while anyone who doesn't feel the same way should have to suffer because it's not what you want. That's a great way to bring new players to the game.

  • Vinceman.4572Vinceman.4572 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Rubedo.8769 said:

    "Hey Mind, I hear you play a lot of GW2. I was thinking of picking it up. Have they added anything cool lately?"
    "Oh totally, they've spent they last three dev cycles, retooling all their old story instances to make them easy enough that people who can't be bothered to dodge red circles can do them without slotting decent armor or using a solid build. So now not only are there no fail conditions like before, all you have to do is watch NPCs complete the fights for you."
    "COOL!! How much is Path of Fire again?"

    Making these story instances even easier than they already are wont be bringing anyone to this game. It would delay content to an existing playerbase that has already had the amount of content drasticallyreduced over the past 12 months.
    You can paint the desire many have for a meaningful gaming experience as some kind of ego issue all you like. Some of us want to play a game, not metagame by browbeating the developers on the forums into making a series of cutscenes with loot.

    And yet again, you completely ignore what I actually said. It would be a optional difficulty change, like I said, if you want to do the content currently as it is and show off just how great you are to stroke your precious ego then by all means, do that. But since when was giving people options a terrible thing in an MMO? What effect does someone else doing their own solo instances in a different way from you in any way detract from your gameplay? I'll answer for you, it doesn't. Not all players are uber leet like you, so some players would appreciate at least having that option. Some players don't like having to go out third party websites for cookie cutter builds to clear content and would prefer to play how they find fun, and would like the options to do so in SOLO content that doesn't effect anyone else.

    But please, continue to show how much you want the game catered to you and only you while anyone who doesn't feel the same way should have to suffer because it's not what you want. That's a great way to bring new players to the game.

    But comparing most of the story to a single player game with several difficulty options GW2 would already be tagged as "easy" since you don't even need the mentioned proper build or playing piano. Sure, some games have a "very easy" option but it's highly debatable if that option is used seriously at all. As the others have said you literally can't die anymore and in the encounters you still can the hp bar stays as before so you'll beat the content no matter what.

    R.I.P. Build Templates, 15.10.2019

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Rubedo.8769 said:

    "Hey Mind, I hear you play a lot of GW2. I was thinking of picking it up. Have they added anything cool lately?"
    "Oh totally, they've spent they last three dev cycles, retooling all their old story instances to make them easy enough that people who can't be bothered to dodge red circles can do them without slotting decent armor or using a solid build. So now not only are there no fail conditions like before, all you have to do is watch NPCs complete the fights for you."
    "COOL!! How much is Path of Fire again?"

    Making these story instances even easier than they already are wont be bringing anyone to this game. It would delay content to an existing playerbase that has already had the amount of content drasticallyreduced over the past 12 months.
    You can paint the desire many have for a meaningful gaming experience as some kind of ego issue all you like. Some of us want to play a game, not metagame by browbeating the developers on the forums into making a series of cutscenes with loot.

    And yet again, you completely ignore what I actually said. It would be a optional difficulty change, like I said, if you want to do the content currently as it is and show off just how great you are to stroke your precious ego then by all means, do that. But since when was giving people options a terrible thing in an MMO? What effect does someone else doing their own solo instances in a different way from you in any way detract from your gameplay? I'll answer for you, it doesn't.

    and you did not read what mindcircus.1506 wrote. Optional difficulty options cost DEVELOPER RESOURCES to implement.

    @Rubedo.8769 said:
    Not all players are uber leet like you, so some players would appreciate at least having that option. Some players don't like having to go out third party websites for cookie cutter builds to clear content and would prefer to play how they find fun, and would like the options to do so in SOLO content that doesn't effect anyone else.

    I'm sorry but compared with single player games, open world and story content in GW2 is absolutely easy mode. Many single player games are vastly more difficult if you factor in the fact that they require you to learn how to play them. Let's not even get started on Souls likes or actually difficult single player games.

    The main difference here is: players can pick GW2 up and progress with absolutely 0 clue how to play the game. If a player is unwilling to learn how the game works on their own, they CAN use outside resources to find guidance. I'm sorry but if you are challenged by almost anything in the story,

    @Rubedo.8769 said:
    But please, continue to show how much you want the game catered to you and only you while anyone who doesn't feel the same way should have to suffer because it's not what you want. That's a great way to bring new players to the game.

    The main struggle GW2 faces at the moment is CONTENT. Diverting resources to "fix" old content for players who are not interested in any way understanding or actually playing this game beyond afk-press-1 (and even that approach works on some builds) is not a wise use of those developers assets.

  • Dante.1508Dante.1508 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 14, 2019

    @mindcircus.1506 said:

    @Rubedo.8769 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Rubedo.8769 said:
    What effect does it have on you personally if someone else plays the solo portion of the game on a simpler difficulty than you did?

    Two words: wasted developer resources. We are talking about 2+ year old content, Daybreak was released in November 2017.

    telling people they can't play just because maybe their not as good as you is a pretty terrible way to encourage new people to try the game out.

    This isn't about encounters at the beginning of the game but encounters -after- the ending of the story. Unless of course what you are after is to make the Personal Story easier for some reason. Furthermore, with Path of Fire Arenanet made it literally impossible to fail encounters anymore.

    Its not really wasted developer resources if it gets new blood into the game, and revamping old content to give more options to new players is never a bad thing if it brings players into the game, or brings players who quit back. I'm still not sure why anyone would be against giving players more options but i mean, thats your feelings on the subject.

    "Our Easiest Content yet!"
    "Ten Man instances that can be solo'ed!"
    "Story missions without Mechanics!"
    "Open world maps with ZERO ambient threat!"

    You really think these are good selling points for the franchise?

    Depends on the customer, some will enjoy it, others wont. I for one would enjoy it. You would not.

  • mindcircus.1506mindcircus.1506 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Rubedo.8769 said:
    Some players don't like having to go out third party websites for cookie cutter builds to clear content and would prefer to play how they find fun, and would like the options to do so in SOLO content that doesn't effect anyone else.

    It already is this easy. Always has been.
    There isn't a solo mission in the game that cant be beaten on a mish-mash build in mismatched green gear.
    You already have your easy mode.

    "We recognize that some players are not able to complete all content." Gaile Gray 01.10.19

  • Shikaru.7618Shikaru.7618 Member ✭✭✭

    @mindcircus.1506 said:

    @Rubedo.8769 said:
    Some players don't like having to go out third party websites for cookie cutter builds to clear content and would prefer to play how they find fun, and would like the options to do so in SOLO content that doesn't effect anyone else.

    It already is this easy. Always has been.
    There isn't a solo mission in the game that cant be beaten on a mish-mash build in mismatched green gear.
    You already have your easy mode.

    Some players enjoy making the game harder for themselves by running special snowflake builds with no synergy. Then complain on the forum that shooting themselves in the foot makes the game too hard. And then say that those of us with uber elite egos can have our "hard" mode while they're purposely opting into hard mode by not running a build that makes any sense.

  • mindcircus.1506mindcircus.1506 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Shikaru.7618 said:

    @mindcircus.1506 said:

    @Rubedo.8769 said:
    Some players don't like having to go out third party websites for cookie cutter builds to clear content and would prefer to play how they find fun, and would like the options to do so in SOLO content that doesn't effect anyone else.

    It already is this easy. Always has been.
    There isn't a solo mission in the game that cant be beaten on a mish-mash build in mismatched green gear.
    You already have your easy mode.

    Some players enjoy making the game harder for themselves by running special snowflake builds with no synergy. Then complain on the forum that shooting themselves in the foot makes the game too hard. And then say that those of us with uber elite egos can have our "hard" mode while they're purposely opting into hard mode by not running a build that makes any sense.

    It doesn't make the game that much harder though. There are no DPS checks, no fail states. The vast majority of challenging missions in this game are skill checks that have nothing to do with build and gear. Players running objectively poor builds are doing nothing but making missions take a little longer.

    The irony is that if the time spent arguing on the forums to get missions nerfed were instead spent just learning mechanics and improving play, the results would likely be much more efficient. If those people arguing for easier story missions took the time they spent berating other players and instead tried to outplay the content, they would undoubtedly get much better results in terms of their time investment.

    But hey... painting the developers as out of touch sadists and those wanting a meaningful game experience as having an ego problem is easier. You can even invent untold masses who would spend millions on the game if only the developers would bend to your wishes.
    Metagaming the forums means never having to admit "you" may be the problem and surveys show that pretend people have tons of disposable income.

    "We recognize that some players are not able to complete all content." Gaile Gray 01.10.19

  • ProtoGunner.4953ProtoGunner.4953 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 17, 2019

    There is only one solution to all too hard complaints. Story is so kitten easy, really.

    23d.gif