[Suggestion] Stop making Story Bosses Hard (LS4 Spoilers) - Page 2 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

[Suggestion] Stop making Story Bosses Hard (LS4 Spoilers)

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  • Ashantara.8731Ashantara.8731 Member ✭✭✭✭

    As usual, it depends on the profession you play. I found it fairly easy to master with my Scourge, but can imagine it being rather tedious with low-health professions.

  • Lexi.1398Lexi.1398 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 6, 2017

    I think that while the fights are hard in..all of the stories except PS & LS2, including PoF and LS4, they're generally something you can get the hang of over a short time. Plus, there's always the option to group up for personal story.

    The exception is that generally, all the PoF balthazar fights are exceedingly hard and something it doesn't give you a chance to learn, and i'd argue the same is true for one or two LS3 fights but tbh the hardest LS3 fight i've had (caudecus) only and SOLELY came from too much visual effects going on all the time, ie less visual effects and bright effects in particular and i wouldn't complain about that fight, it'd still be hard but it'd be manageable. That's...only slightly true for PoF Balth fights, while they do have significant clutter PoF balth fights difficulty comes from both the high damage he deals in a short time if you don't evade the right attacks (and high damage in general makes it difficult to know which thing killed you), and the long instances making it impossible to leave the fight and rethink and replan without losing significant progress- esp as the hardest bosses, including yes all Balth fights, trap you in place in constant combat (aside for one). These are the only fights which are hard and I think should be altered in some way to reduce the difficulty - OR provide more breaks between instances and a safe place (without losing health progress on the boss) where you can change your characters build (utilities mainly) a little for PoF.

    Aside from that, the only two fights in the game so far as i've done them that i'd argue should have less health- is Scruffy 2.0 and Balthazar in The Departed. Both fights take an obscene amount of time, Scruffy 2.0 is pretty good on the difficulty as long as you actually are moving around and attempting to avoid being attacked, Balthazar is difficult but see above for why that is, but the issue is they both have an insanely high amount of health to deplete which, more than anything, just makes them so boring and really make you lose any care you had for the story if any at all, you just want those fights to be over. :/

    I only died once for Scruffy 2.0...and thats because i missed a jump and fell to my death. xD

  • RoseofGilead.8907RoseofGilead.8907 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I don't think there was anything in this fight that was particularly difficult, once you've figured out what to do. However, it does have waaaaaay to much HP, in my opinion. I also hate forced invulnerability phases, especially when they're done multiple times (like in this particular boss fight). The HP could do with some tweaking.

    Oh look. I have a signature now.

  • Lunarlife.5128Lunarlife.5128 Member ✭✭✭

    @Erasculio.2914 said:

    @Lunarlife.5128 said:
    While I'm not super experienced with the game (Maybe 500 hours) it seems really off that certain bosses & events destroy some but not others.

    That's the idea. If you see a boss that you cannot defeat, try changing your build to something more suited to fighting that boss.

    The only way for all builds to defeat all enemies equally would be if everything died in one hit.

    I do change builds (Chrono vs. mirage. Tempest vs Weaver. Vipers vs bezerkers vs minstrels etc).

    It's however, the fact that changing the entire class that I'm playing is a solution.

  • Biff.5312Biff.5312 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I can see offering an option to skip a boss if it's too hard for a particular player. I don't want them to nerf the difficulty of bosses - that's the point. It's also some of the only really challenging/fun content. BUT, if I run into one I simply can't beat, I wouldn't want to have to just quit the story. So again - offering a bypass would be okay.

  • I'm not going to comment on the difficulty, but I agree that the companions are mostly useless (looking at you Braham).

    When a man lies he murders some part of the world – Paul Gerhardt
    Just so we’re clear, I’m a solo player – Kirito
    Live, Laugh, Love Kill Zhaitan Mordremoth Balthazar Joko Kralkatorrik my desire for the Skyscale I don't know... – DedTreeJig

  • Menadena.7482Menadena.7482 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Nikal.4921 said:
    This is story content. To tell a story, not prepare you for raids. I am thoroughly discouraged by the difficulty of story bosses and so hardly bother with them. I'd like to get the story line, so it's a real disappointment.

    Exactly. Stories used to be something fun to do when I had time to do them and could enjoy things. Now between the various things they have done lately (like locking content behind part of the story) they are no longer a casual thing. Honestly anet, if I wanted to stress out I would do a fractal or a raid. Make stories casual again.

    New to the game? Feel free to give a yell if you need PVE help.

  • Menadena.7482Menadena.7482 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @MokahTGS.7850 said:
    It just would be nice if they added a story mode to PS stuff that toned down the raid mechanics for those solo players that just want to see the story unfold.

    Bingo!!!!!

    I do stories as much as possible by myself. So that means when something assumes a party I do not get to enjoy the story, I am running around like a chicken with its head cut off and it becomes work rather than fun. They can even keep the rewards as long as the story unlocks the new map.

    New to the game? Feel free to give a yell if you need PVE help.

  • Umut.5471Umut.5471 Member ✭✭✭

    They weren't hard for me, I defeated them easily. But, high hp pool and long fights were clearly boring.

  • I agree with the OP. I finished the PoF Balthazar fight in my panties because I had died so many times and I wasn't about to start it over. I LOVE the story and hate the fights. Sorry, that's just how I am. I think players that enjoy the fight and the mechanics SHOULD be able to continue to enjoy that part of the game. I also think that people that want to progress the story without having to slog through monster battles have a point too. I really liked the way the developers of Mass Effect allowed the player to select the difficulty mode - people who just wanted the story could choose story mode - not breezing past the bosses but not having to work too hard either. Then the player could ratchet up to "nightmare" mode or some such if that was their thing. I don't know why it has to be an either/or thing and not both. And make the rewards scale for people that are into that. I couldn't care less if I don't get the latest fancy thing as long as I can get through the fight so I can find out what's going on in the darn story.

  • Zohane.7208Zohane.7208 Member ✭✭✭

    I'll have to disagree with the OP, at least in part.

    Sure, the story is not to prepare for raids or other high-end stuff, but it's also not meant to be facerolled. While the scruffy fight was tedious and it required a bit of movement I can't really say that it was hard. I was downed once during the fight, and of course died once during the massive unload phase, but for a first try I don't think that's too bad. I hadn't researched the fight at all so I just played it as it came. I didn't change my build at all. All it took was to move out of the aoes and I was just fine.
    And no, I'm in no way an expert player; I consider myself quite average.

  • Chickenooble.5014Chickenooble.5014 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 6, 2017

    @Michael.8562 said:
    I agree with the OP. I finished the PoF Balthazar fight in my panties because I had died so many times and I wasn't about to start it over. I LOVE the story and hate the fights. Sorry, that's just how I am. I think players that enjoy the fight and the mechanics SHOULD be able to continue to enjoy that part of the game. I also think that people that want to progress the story without having to slog through monster battles have a point too. I really liked the way the developers of Mass Effect allowed the player to select the difficulty mode - people who just wanted the story could choose story mode - not breezing past the bosses but not having to work too hard either. Then the player could ratchet up to "nightmare" mode or some such if that was their thing. I don't know why it has to be an either/or thing and not both. And make the rewards scale for people that are into that. I couldn't care less if I don't get the latest fancy thing as long as I can get through the fight so I can find out what's going on in the darn story.

    If you like the story and hate the fights just go watch some Youtube of someone else complete the content? I don't get how you guys think it's okay to r etard the content (and difficulty progression) just because you don't know how to play your class or take instant repair canisters. That's not the games fault.

    They call me "Mr. Pres."

  • Lemondrop.5216Lemondrop.5216 Member ✭✭
    edited December 6, 2017

    @TheUndefined.1720 said:
    " I'm currently sitting in the active fight with Scruffy 2.0, dead, having died at least a dozens times, and I honestly just want to throw my hands up. "

    Lol, I hear you. There are several times I was alone with no armor, naked and continually dying and nobody would help me. Took me hours to finally succeed, but I'd never want to do it again.

  • Solvar.7953Solvar.7953 Member ✭✭✭

    I don't mind story bosses being hard, but I find some of the fights excessively long. Its gotten to the point where I expect that every 25%, the boss will become immune, you'll have to do some special thing to make it non immune, and you'll need to repeat that sequence 2 more times. This is hardly interesting.
    Also, most stories have pretty kitten loot - just a set of a few items when you complete it. So except for collections or specific skins, stories probably have near the lowest form of item or wealth game per time of any play mode.
    So in many cases, reducing the HP of the boss monster would make the story faster, and not really mess anything up. While some people may have optimum/high DPS builds, at this points, that almost seems like a requirement, since the player is really the only one doing damage.
    Maybe for those who really want the challenge, put it some bonus for killing the boss in under some time limit or something, and make that the aspect that is hard to achieve.

  • @Chickenooble.5014 said:

    @Michael.8562 said:
    I agree with the OP. I finished the PoF Balthazar fight in my panties because I had died so many times and I wasn't about to start it over. I LOVE the story and hate the fights. Sorry, that's just how I am. I think players that enjoy the fight and the mechanics SHOULD be able to continue to enjoy that part of the game. I also think that people that want to progress the story without having to slog through monster battles have a point too. I really liked the way the developers of Mass Effect allowed the player to select the difficulty mode - people who just wanted the story could choose story mode - not breezing past the bosses but not having to work too hard either. Then the player could ratchet up to "nightmare" mode or some such if that was their thing. I don't know why it has to be an either/or thing and not both. And make the rewards scale for people that are into that. I couldn't care less if I don't get the latest fancy thing as long as I can get through the fight so I can find out what's going on in the darn story.

    If you like the story and hate the fights just go watch some Youtube of someone else complete the content? I don't get how you guys think it's okay to r etard the content (and difficulty progression) just because you don't know how to play your class or take instant repair canisters. That's not the games fault.

    What a really thoughtful, one size fits all, response. Please stop with the 'just because you don't know how to play your class' nonsense. There are literally thousands if not hundreds of thousands of people playing this game. And guess what, they can't all be you. They don't all have the same experience, background or thumbs as you. Why should their experience of the game be the same as yours? The 'learn to play your class' response is tired and thick. Why should I have to NOT play the game (ie. watch youtube videos) because I like different parts of it than you? Or because different parts speak to me.

    If you read my post you'd know I'm not asking for the content to be toned down for everyone. I'd just like a choice.

  • I have to agree on the uselessness of the companions, particularly in the final story step. I also got the fun of having to mow down the inquest zerg by myself while Rytlock and everyone else stood right next to me doing nothing. And I kind of wonder if the reason the HP pool on Scruffy 2.0 was so high is because Braham is supposed to be doing more than just wandering around (I never got downed so not sure if he would have helped me then, at least Rytlock would res me when the Inquest swarm got me). Not sure about everyone else but I took Scruffy on as a Druid and as long as I didn't stand too close to the edge I was OK, but it did take a VERY long time to drain him and I found myself wishing I'd gone in to the instance as Soulbeast instead, especially with how close I had to stand to Scruffy anyway.

  • Ashen.2907Ashen.2907 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I tend to agree with the title. Players should stop making boss fights hard on themselves.

  • blambidy.3216blambidy.3216 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I think you probably have a build problem. Or don’t understand your skills with the class. I did not struggle with scruffy whatsoever. It took me a 5 min to figure out how to take down the white orb then after that. Scruffy was very simple to kill. I was just a regular ranger and running Condi with just exotics. Until I can gather all crafting mats to make ascended I’m just running exotics.

    I even helped another player finish that story within 20 mins on scruffy.
    Bosses in this game are not hard at all. I think you need to try more then just pve to get better. Or try a more squishy character so you can run your regular class. Mordremoth was much more harder. Even with a full team. But to take down the health and the rivals dps no. I rather have a more fun time then speed through weak bosses. That will make me leave the game.

    Back to what you need to do. Study the game. Study your class. Understand dodging. When to key use your skills. Every skill and heal skill counts. Use the right build, right traits, and right sigals and runes. Because it counts. As much as people complain let it be tough. Stop trying to get through story easy. Take it tough and get through it. too Many whining. Arenanet does not need to nerf down anything. If anything pof hps need to be nerfed up. Pof Balthazar needs to be nerfed up. But nerf down? No. Scruffy doesn’t need to be nerfed down.

  • Ashen.2907Ashen.2907 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Its an interactive story about a challenge to be overcome. The interactive challenge is inherent to the story.

  • Illurim.6059Illurim.6059 Member ✭✭
    edited December 6, 2017

    @Ashen.2907 said:
    Its an interactive story about a challenge to be overcome. The interactive challenge is inherent to the story.

    Aren't you the bloke that said it was easy? That you did it first go, no deaths? You said:

    "I didnt find the Scruffy fight to be particularly difficult, but it was annoying."

    So, you're exactly the type of person I was referring to being unable to have a discussion with. One the one hand you tell us you weren't challenged and the fight wasn't difficult. On the other, you're telling me it's meant to be challenging. So, either you're SO GREAT that you didn't notice the challenge, OR your argument is wildly inconsistent. Thus, "the type of person who won't understand my point of view and can't accept it's valid".

    Until you can relegate the inconsistencies in your own logic (is it challenging or not?) there's no discussion to be had because the only person being challenged is me, between the two of us, and you're saying I should be. You don't get to decide that for me. I do. And if you WEREN'T challenged, then making it easier for me so I'm NOT challenged seems pretty fair, right?

  • @Illurim.6059 said:

    @Ashen.2907 said:
    Its an interactive story about a challenge to be overcome. The interactive challenge is inherent to the story.

    Aren't you the bloke that said it was easy? That you did it first go, no deaths? You said:

    "I didnt find the Scruffy fight to be particularly difficult, but it was annoying."

    So, you're exactly the type of person I was referring to being unable to have a discussion with. One the one hand you tell us you weren't challenged and the fight wasn't difficult. On the other, you're telling me it's meant to be challenging. So, either you're SO GREAT that you didn't notice the challenge, OR your argument is wildly inconsistent. Thus, "the type of person who won't understand my point of view and can't accept it's valid".

    Until you can relegate the inconsistencies in your own logic (is it challenging or not?) there's no discussion to be had because the only person being challenged is me, between the two of us, and you're saying I should be. You don't get to decide that for me. I do. And if you WEREN'T challenged, then making it easier for me so I'm NOT challenged seems pretty fair, right?

    No, because it's not about being "fair" - you can always get better. Some people can't get worse. By making content easier for people who can't play the game right then the experience is going to be lessened for everyone else. Why should the content be made easier for you?

    They call me "Mr. Pres."

  • Evolute.6239Evolute.6239 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 6, 2017

    @Illurim.6059 said:

    @Ashen.2907 said:
    Its an interactive story about a challenge to be overcome. The interactive challenge is inherent to the story.

    Aren't you the bloke that said it was easy? That you did it first go, no deaths? You said:

    "I didnt find the Scruffy fight to be particularly difficult, but it was annoying."

    So, you're exactly the type of person I was referring to being unable to have a discussion with. One the one hand you tell us you weren't challenged and the fight wasn't difficult. On the other, you're telling me it's meant to be challenging. So, either you're SO GREAT that you didn't notice the challenge, OR your argument is wildly inconsistent. Thus, "the type of person who won't understand my point of view and can't accept it's valid".

    Until you can relegate the inconsistencies in your own logic (is it challenging or not?) there's no discussion to be had because the only person being challenged is me, between the two of us, and you're saying I should be. You don't get to decide that for me. I do. And if you WEREN'T challenged, then making it easier for me so I'm NOT challenged seems pretty fair, right?

    No, you're the type of person it's impossible to have a discussion with. You want an easy fight nerfed to become easier because you refuse to adapt, to change anything. To be literally given the rewards for a game by showing up.

    Go play Hello Kitty Online if you want guaranteed satisfaction with no effort. I mean that in the most non-trolly way possible. I think some WoW LFG fights have more personal responsibility than Scruffy.

  • @Chickenooble.5014 said:

    @Illurim.6059 said:

    @Ashen.2907 said:
    Its an interactive story about a challenge to be overcome. The interactive challenge is inherent to the story.

    Aren't you the bloke that said it was easy? That you did it first go, no deaths? You said:

    "I didnt find the Scruffy fight to be particularly difficult, but it was annoying."

    So, you're exactly the type of person I was referring to being unable to have a discussion with. One the one hand you tell us you weren't challenged and the fight wasn't difficult. On the other, you're telling me it's meant to be challenging. So, either you're SO GREAT that you didn't notice the challenge, OR your argument is wildly inconsistent. Thus, "the type of person who won't understand my point of view and can't accept it's valid".

    Until you can relegate the inconsistencies in your own logic (is it challenging or not?) there's no discussion to be had because the only person being challenged is me, between the two of us, and you're saying I should be. You don't get to decide that for me. I do. And if you WEREN'T challenged, then making it easier for me so I'm NOT challenged seems pretty fair, right?

    No, because it's not about being "fair" - you can always get better. Some people can't get worse. By making content easier for people who can't play the game right then the experience is going to be lessened for everyone else. Why should the content be made easier for you?

    I simply don't understand this argument. If some people can't get worse, they probably already find it easy, so there's no challenge for those people. You're assuming people who find the story challenging "can't play the game right" - that's a loaded assumption. It also ignores the base difficulty increase in story over the years in favour of demeaning people "who aren't getting better". Not everyone is on a mission to self-improve their gaming skills. Not everyone is playing this game looking for super challenging content in story modes. STORY modes. Why should the content be made harder for us? Just because you haven't found it challenging enough? Do you even understand the argument you're making, sir?

  • Fun fact: I find WvW and SPvP very challenging. I don't have the quickness to compete with everyone else in PvP environments and I don't know which classes have which abilities, so I can't effectively fight anyone in the content because I don't know what to expect. I'm terrible at PvP. I get in and try learning but I'm still bad.

    I don't think WvW or SPvP should be made easier for me though. I realize I'm just bad at it... and that's fine. I just go play other games. When I find a game that I'm terrible at -- Dark Souls, Donkey Kong Country on Wii U, or any fighting game -- I just don't play them. They're too hard for me. I recognize that and that's fine.

    They call me "Mr. Pres."

  • @Illurim.6059 said:

    @Chickenooble.5014 said:

    @Illurim.6059 said:

    @Ashen.2907 said:
    Its an interactive story about a challenge to be overcome. The interactive challenge is inherent to the story.

    Aren't you the bloke that said it was easy? That you did it first go, no deaths? You said:

    "I didnt find the Scruffy fight to be particularly difficult, but it was annoying."

    So, you're exactly the type of person I was referring to being unable to have a discussion with. One the one hand you tell us you weren't challenged and the fight wasn't difficult. On the other, you're telling me it's meant to be challenging. So, either you're SO GREAT that you didn't notice the challenge, OR your argument is wildly inconsistent. Thus, "the type of person who won't understand my point of view and can't accept it's valid".

    Until you can relegate the inconsistencies in your own logic (is it challenging or not?) there's no discussion to be had because the only person being challenged is me, between the two of us, and you're saying I should be. You don't get to decide that for me. I do. And if you WEREN'T challenged, then making it easier for me so I'm NOT challenged seems pretty fair, right?

    No, because it's not about being "fair" - you can always get better. Some people can't get worse. By making content easier for people who can't play the game right then the experience is going to be lessened for everyone else. Why should the content be made easier for you?

    I simply don't understand this argument. If some people can't get worse, they probably already find it easy, so there's no challenge for those people. You're assuming people who find the story challenging "can't play the game right" - that's a loaded assumption. It also ignores the base difficulty increase in story over the years in favour of demeaning people "who aren't getting better". Not everyone is on a mission to self-improve their gaming skills. Not everyone is playing this game looking for super challenging content in story modes. STORY modes. Why should the content be made harder for us? Just because you haven't found it challenging enough? Do you even understand the argument you're making, sir?

    You're making the assumption that the people who "can't get worse" are some top-level elite players. They could be people who think the current content has the right mix of story and challenge. By making the content easier you're lessening the experience for those people.

    I've said it before -- if you want to see the story of GW2 without playing the game as it is... go watch some Let's Plays.

    They call me "Mr. Pres."

  • @Chickenooble.5014 said:
    Fun fact: I find WvW and SPvP very challenging. I don't have the quickness to compete with everyone else in PvP environments and I don't know which classes have which abilities, so I can't effectively fight anyone in the content because I don't know what to expect. I'm terrible at PvP. I get in and try learning but I'm still bad.

    I don't think WvW or SPvP should be made easier for me though. I realize I'm just bad at it... and that's fine. I just go play other games. When I find a game that I'm terrible at -- Dark Souls, Donkey Kong Country on Wii U, or any fighting game -- I just don't play them. They're too hard for me. I recognize that and that's fine.

    So, you give up. Cool. I keep trying. And it's okay to discuss making content that should be the most accessible ...the...most...accessible. You don't have to get defensive and decide the only thing I should be doing is throwing my bat and ball in the crate and going home. And you certainly don't get to decide that I should simply quit because that's what you do.

  • @Illurim.6059 said:

    @Chickenooble.5014 said:
    Fun fact: I find WvW and SPvP very challenging. I don't have the quickness to compete with everyone else in PvP environments and I don't know which classes have which abilities, so I can't effectively fight anyone in the content because I don't know what to expect. I'm terrible at PvP. I get in and try learning but I'm still bad.

    I don't think WvW or SPvP should be made easier for me though. I realize I'm just bad at it... and that's fine. I just go play other games. When I find a game that I'm terrible at -- Dark Souls, Donkey Kong Country on Wii U, or any fighting game -- I just don't play them. They're too hard for me. I recognize that and that's fine.

    So, you give up. Cool. I keep trying. And it's okay to discuss making content that should be the most accessible ...the...most...accessible. You don't have to get defensive and decide the only thing I should be doing is throwing my bat and ball in the crate and going home. And you certainly don't get to decide that I should simply quit because that's what you do.

    No, but who are you to decide that the content should be so trivially easy that even the lowest skill player should be able to faceroll over it? I mean, after all, making the content trivial to where literally anyone could beat it without any difficulty would be ...the ...most ...accessible. And apparently, you want to have a conversation about making the content most accessible... so, no, I'm going to fight that notion.

    They call me "Mr. Pres."

  • @Chickenooble.5014 said:

    @Illurim.6059 said:

    @Chickenooble.5014 said:

    @Illurim.6059 said:

    @Ashen.2907 said:
    Its an interactive story about a challenge to be overcome. The interactive challenge is inherent to the story.

    Aren't you the bloke that said it was easy? That you did it first go, no deaths? You said:

    "I didnt find the Scruffy fight to be particularly difficult, but it was annoying."

    So, you're exactly the type of person I was referring to being unable to have a discussion with. One the one hand you tell us you weren't challenged and the fight wasn't difficult. On the other, you're telling me it's meant to be challenging. So, either you're SO GREAT that you didn't notice the challenge, OR your argument is wildly inconsistent. Thus, "the type of person who won't understand my point of view and can't accept it's valid".

    Until you can relegate the inconsistencies in your own logic (is it challenging or not?) there's no discussion to be had because the only person being challenged is me, between the two of us, and you're saying I should be. You don't get to decide that for me. I do. And if you WEREN'T challenged, then making it easier for me so I'm NOT challenged seems pretty fair, right?

    No, because it's not about being "fair" - you can always get better. Some people can't get worse. By making content easier for people who can't play the game right then the experience is going to be lessened for everyone else. Why should the content be made easier for you?

    I simply don't understand this argument. If some people can't get worse, they probably already find it easy, so there's no challenge for those people. You're assuming people who find the story challenging "can't play the game right" - that's a loaded assumption. It also ignores the base difficulty increase in story over the years in favour of demeaning people "who aren't getting better". Not everyone is on a mission to self-improve their gaming skills. Not everyone is playing this game looking for super challenging content in story modes. STORY modes. Why should the content be made harder for us? Just because you haven't found it challenging enough? Do you even understand the argument you're making, sir?

    You're making the assumption that the people who "can't get worse" are some top-level elite players. They could be people who think the current content has the right mix of story and challenge. By making the content easier you're lessening the experience for those people.

    I've said it before -- if you want to see the story of GW2 without playing the game as it is... go watch some Let's Plays.

    Granted, I was inferring from your point and thus likely making an assumption based on what you said. Your point seems to be centered around a set of people who are 'average' players (or what you consider to be 'average' and let's face it, you're also making some assumptions in that, too) and not wanting their experience to be worsened by trivialising content. I agree. I don't want anyone's experience to be worsened. And I don't want the content to be trivial. I want to be highly accessible and enjoyable for everyone.

    I look at game modes like this (in order of easy to difficult content):
    Open world events
    Story
    Open world map metas
    Fractals
    Raids

    Maybe there's some things I've forgotten or left out that are important - happy for you to expand on that, be interesting to see your perspective.

  • Nilson.9865Nilson.9865 Member ✭✭✭

    Hard? But you can do story mission with 4 other guys. Find somebody in LFG. No problems with boss difficulty.

  • Haishao.6851Haishao.6851 Member ✭✭✭

    I think the difficulty in story is fine as it is now.
    I wouldn't mind if it was made a little bit harder, but not with gimmicks. I prefer fighting the boss than the room.

    Scruffy would have been nice if the invulnerability phase was reduced to a single one and put at the very end of the fight. They could have made scruffy hit harder and take a bit more damage to make the fight shorter.

    Warden Amala was fun. I liked fighting a dervish boss who could switch into every avatars.

    Branded Wyvern was just a low tier introductory boss so there's nothing really to say about it.

  • @Evolute.6239 said:

    @Illurim.6059 said:

    @Ashen.2907 said:
    Its an interactive story about a challenge to be overcome. The interactive challenge is inherent to the story.

    Aren't you the bloke that said it was easy? That you did it first go, no deaths? You said:

    "I didnt find the Scruffy fight to be particularly difficult, but it was annoying."

    So, you're exactly the type of person I was referring to being unable to have a discussion with. One the one hand you tell us you weren't challenged and the fight wasn't difficult. On the other, you're telling me it's meant to be challenging. So, either you're SO GREAT that you didn't notice the challenge, OR your argument is wildly inconsistent. Thus, "the type of person who won't understand my point of view and can't accept it's valid".

    Until you can relegate the inconsistencies in your own logic (is it challenging or not?) there's no discussion to be had because the only person being challenged is me, between the two of us, and you're saying I should be. You don't get to decide that for me. I do. And if you WEREN'T challenged, then making it easier for me so I'm NOT challenged seems pretty fair, right?

    No, you're the type of person it's impossible to have a discussion with. You want an easy fight nerfed to become easier because you refuse to adapt, to change anything. To be literally given the rewards for a game by showing up.

    Go play Hello Kitty Online if you want guaranteed satisfaction with no effort. I mean that in the most non-trolly way possible. I think some WoW LFG fights have more personal responsibility than Scruffy.

    Putting words in my mouth so you can flame me is about the best way to prove my point. Thank you.

  • Jwake.7013Jwake.7013 Member ✭✭✭

    Got me wondering how many people who are asking the story to become easier even tried a different build or asked a friend or guildies to join them (cause you know... mmo)? I am not that great a player with my reaction speed being pretty terrible, but I do understand builds decently enough. While I may die once or twice during a boss fight normally, I don't see that as a big deal and even then I never think "it's too hard cause I died once before killing him." I just see it as part of the fight and knowing that I'm not doing rotations all that great.

    "Freedom is something that you need to actively acquire. It's not something that's given with no strings attached. To be free means to take responsibility, and to prepare yourself for what's to come." ~Charles Beams~

  • Malediktus.9250Malediktus.9250 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Nikal.4921 said:
    This is story content. To tell a story, not prepare you for raids. I am thoroughly discouraged by the difficulty of story bosses and so hardly bother with them. I'd like to get the story line, so it's a real disappointment.

    Would watch a movie if I wanted to watch a movie.

  • Erasculio.2914Erasculio.2914 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Jwake.7013 said:
    Got me wondering how many people who are asking the story to become easier even tried a different build or asked a friend or guildies to join them (cause you know... mmo)?

    The real issue is that we cannot see how those saying the game is too hard are playing... And that they aren't asking for help either, they want the game to become easier instead. It's hard to figure out if they aren't just applying the same reasoning to the game - instead of trying to change themselves (their traits, skills, weapons, etc), they are just asking the game to become easier.

    "Tomorrow my master chokes on his own whip!" - Lore of Skaen, PoE

  • I think this thread alone shows that a difficulty option for story modes would be pretty appreciated by the player community. There are a good number of players asking for an easier option, and a good number asking for a harder option, while still yet a good number of people asking for it not to be changed - easy, normal, hard modes could be a really neat idea.

    It'd be an easy way also to introduce 'more' content and stretch these living stories out to actually last longer than an evening. Add some achievements, titles, rewards to the different modes. I'm not saying make a dungeon, the harder difficulty shouldn't replace dungeon / raid content - just something fun a couple people could do together.

    In any case, thanks for the discussion so far. It's been interesting to see people's points of views. :)

  • Menadena.7482Menadena.7482 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I liked the suggestion for a story mode (or a difficulty setting). Doing story mode you would only get whatever unlocks (like a new map) while things like treasure and keys would only be for higher difficulties.

    New to the game? Feel free to give a yell if you need PVE help.

  • @Erasculio.2914 said:

    @Jwake.7013 said:
    Got me wondering how many people who are asking the story to become easier even tried a different build or asked a friend or guildies to join them (cause you know... mmo)?

    The real issue is that we cannot see how those saying the game is too hard are playing... And that they aren't asking for help either, they want the game to become easier instead. It's hard to figure out if they aren't just applying the same reasoning to the game - instead of trying to change themselves (their traits, skills, weapons, etc), they are just asking the game to become easier.

    Well, let me ask you - if a player can defeat open world meta champ bosses solo (the events on Ember Bay map for example, specifically that kraken boss near the skritt camp event) as a Mirage Mesmer pretty easily, would that be sufficient enough skill to assess if the story content should be also easy enough?

    If there's a better 'test case' that would help you understand skill, I'm happy to let you know if I've done it/can do it solo. Regardless, the Ember Bay champ meta events are all pretty easy for me, but story isn't.

  • IndigoSundown.5419IndigoSundown.5419 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Haishao.6851 said:
    I think the difficulty in story is fine as it is now.
    I wouldn't mind if it was made a little bit harder, but not with gimmicks. I prefer fighting the boss than the room.

    Scruffy would have been nice if the invulnerability phase was reduced to a single one and put at the very end of the fight. They could have made scruffy hit harder and take a bit more damage to make the fight shorter.

    I've been finding the story to be undoable, but the difficulty is in actually getting the darned chapters to complete without a DC. So, I have not done this fight. I'm still slogging through the PoF story when i feel like beating my head against a wall. However, based on the descriptions in this fight, I believe my position would be like Haishao's. I detest gimmicks in video games. I'd rather fights be hard and fair, and not rely on some overly contrived mechanic that says nothing about skill in playing.

    Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. -- Santayana

  • Erasculio.2914Erasculio.2914 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Illurim.6059 said:
    Well, let me ask you - if a player can defeat open world meta champ bosses solo (the events on Ember Bay map for example, specifically that kraken boss near the skritt camp event) as a Mirage Mesmer pretty easily, would that be sufficient enough skill to assess if the story content should be also easy enough?

    Of course not.

    It's not a matter of skill - it's a matter of how much willing to try people are.

    Using one extreme as an example: if someone comes here and says, "I think all builds should be able to defeat all story enemies equally, with all of them taking the exact same time to defeat a boss"... Well, that would only be possible if all enemies died in a single hit.

    In other hand, if someone comes here and says, "So, there's this boss that does a lot of damage and applies a lot of conditions. I'm playing with a guardian, I have changed my traits to include Honor for the extra Vitality and the heal on block, and I have changed my utility skills to Contemplation of Purity and Purging Flames. But the boss still applies conditions faster than I can cleanse them, and its poison spam is preventing me from healing myself properly, so I keep dying. I think this boss could be changed to have a longer recharge on its condition-applying attacks"... Well, then it's something else. We have someone who is trying, who has done his best to adapt to the fight, yet is having issues with a specific mechanic. Other players could tell him ways to go around it ("did you try using shouts to cleanse the conditions, since they have a shorter recharge?") or share similar experiences ("yeah, same thing happened with my revenant, I tried using Ventari's tablet but moving around all the time made it useless"), so ArenaNet eventually sees a lot of people talking about one specific issue and decides to modify it.

    "Tomorrow my master chokes on his own whip!" - Lore of Skaen, PoE

  • Difficult to fight? Sure. But that fight with Scruffy was both needlessly long, but also ultimately completely pointless since at the end we don't actually defeat the thing. We just have to outlast the two minutes of him blowing his load of weapons and then miraculously spitting the Mary Sue out, once again keeping her from real harm by some 1960s Batman levels of luck. Aside from the fact that if Scruffy was the powerful in the first place she should have held her own just fine while fighting against zombie inquests and Joko, there is the inherent problem that one second Scruffy is this technologically hyper advanced golem that surpasses anything else coming out of Rata Sum, and the next minute some random inquest minions are able to completely over ride it as if it were just a toy.

    Its sloppy writing and designed to make people rage quit if they went into it solo on either the wrong class or build or both.

    I've flatly avoided going back to the map to even do anything else there because of that last fight because it annoyed me that much.

    Greck Howlbane - Firebrand
    Sorrow's Furnace For Life

  • marelooke.9708marelooke.9708 Member ✭✭
    edited December 7, 2017

    Most of the bossfights since PoF have been needlessly annoying, mostly because they drag the fight out forever and/or have obtuse mechanics. Having it at the end of an already long instance only makes matters worse since quitting means you get to redo the entire chore before the boss as well.

    I've actually started dreading instanced story steps. I expect them to be unenjoyable chores that might very well take up quite a bit more time than I'm actually willing to spend on them (which explains why I've only just completed the final LS4e1, I had actively been putting it off). The fact that the way the story is told has been steadily deteriorating doesn't help any either (having a billion things going on that I need to pay attention to while the companions are yapping is horrendously annoying, please for the love of Dwayna, stop doing that. I want to enjoy the story, thank you very much. I wish we could go back to the dialogue style from PS, and if that fails at least the way LS2 handled it (or a combination). Nowadays I have to read most of what was said after the fact in the chat log, assuming it's even there)

    And no, I don't necessarily mind hard bosses (I was raiding Sunwell Plateau when it was "current"), that's what I raid for, I prefer not to have them in my story instances (though "annoying" is probably more appropriate than "hard" anyway as far as story bosses are concerned).

  • Cuddy.6247Cuddy.6247 Member ✭✭✭

    Difficulty seems okay but the lengths are getting tedious for story. Or there's too much kitten going on. I just took my character's observations in the first episode for granted about Aurene's involvement, because I sure didn't have time to get a look at her until way later. Like you also get so overwhelmed with the fighting it's easy to miss that Strange Figure in the last episode. I don't think they should have kept her around long, but long enough to clue in people who aren't all that active anymore.

    I'll be in Guild Wars 1 until Arena Net stops monetizing build templates.

  • Illurim.6059Illurim.6059 Member ✭✭
    edited December 7, 2017

    @Erasculio.2914 said:

    @Illurim.6059 said:
    Well, let me ask you - if a player can defeat open world meta champ bosses solo (the events on Ember Bay map for example, specifically that kraken boss near the skritt camp event) as a Mirage Mesmer pretty easily, would that be sufficient enough skill to assess if the story content should be also easy enough?

    Of course not.

    It's not a matter of skill - it's a matter of how much willing to try people are.

    Using one extreme as an example: if someone comes here and says, "I think all builds should be able to defeat all story enemies equally, with all of them taking the exact same time to defeat a boss"... Well, that would only be possible if all enemies died in a single hit.

    In other hand, if someone comes here and says, "So, there's this boss that does a lot of damage and applies a lot of conditions. I'm playing with a guardian, I have changed my traits to include Honor for the extra Vitality and the heal on block, and I have changed my utility skills to Contemplation of Purity and Purging Flames. But the boss still applies conditions faster than I can cleanse them, and its poison spam is preventing me from healing myself properly, so I keep dying. I think this boss could be changed to have a longer recharge on its condition-applying attacks"... Well, then it's something else. We have someone who is trying, who has done his best to adapt to the fight, yet is having issues with a specific mechanic. Other players could tell him ways to go around it ("did you try using shouts to cleanse the conditions, since they have a shorter recharge?") or share similar experiences ("yeah, same thing happened with my revenant, I tried using Ventari's tablet but moving around all the time made it useless"), so ArenaNet eventually sees a lot of people talking about one specific issue and decides to modify it.

    So, we might see content a bit differently. You seem to consider each individual encounter something that you adjust for with your build (given your example). When it comes to open world PVE, though, if you ask in any /map or on the forums about an 'open world' build or 'story' build, most people will say (rightfully so in my opinion, but maybe not in your's) - it doesn't really matter what build you use. Open world is so easy and there's so much help it doesn't matter outside of a few specific situations such as HoT content being more group-oriented, yada yada yada. I see the story on the same level - build shouldn't matter. It's story. You seem to think it should matter in each various story situation. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's what I understand from your post. I don't share that view, but I'm not going to argue with it because I don't see anything wrong with it. It's completely fine.

    What I don't understand is why you put together that contrived example when I already started one. You want me to list out my traits, my skills, my rotation, etc for you? If that's what you think is required to 'help' people and 'make content accessible' (especially given my previous comment re: pve builds that no one really cares about and certainly you can't find specifics on outside raids or fractals), I literally do not understand why you wasted the time. You've added nothing to the discussion beyond 'well unless you can prove to me you are capable, then there's nothing really to talk about'. That's a big leap. And a bit of a jerk move.

    You seem very attached to qualifying people's skill in your own eyes before being willing to engage in a dsicussion about content difficulty. What I was trying to do is get people to discuss comparative content with my example - in a general way. If you can do X, should you be able to do Y? If "insert general scenario" is roughly equivalent or should be roughly equivalent in terms of game experience/process, should this other "insert general scenario" be comparable?

    You seem to want to get into the minutia, which I don't see really serves a purpose at all (beyond very specific stuff, which is pretty obvious).

  • Cerioth.7062Cerioth.7062 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Illurim.6059 said:
    From the comments, it seems like there's two types of people - those who just want to enjoy the story, relax, have fun, unwind, listen to the funny one liners and be carried along by it. That's me. Story is story and it should be interesting and engaging and fun. There's plenty of OTHER places in the game to create difficulty and challenge for those seeking it.

    Then there's those types that seem to derive some kind of self-worth/validation from being able to tell everyone how easy it is for them and by extension how sub-par people who find it challenging are. There's no discussion available with those people, really, because they won't admit, and can't see, that other people don't actually care about being challenged in a game, because it's a game. Some of us don't sit there and go OH YEAH I BEAT THAT BOSS I'M THE BEST I ROCK. We just beat it and go 'ooooh look at that cool ceiling, that's really well done'. People who derive validation from 'beating' something in a game can't comprehend how un-relatable that is to someone who just cares about the story being interesting and fun. They can't understand why when someone says to me "The scruff fight is easy, I beat it in one go" that I literally laugh and think to myself "is that your major accomplishment for today?". Some of us are so busy with our actual lives and getting mean from them, the validation we all crave, that when we sit down at a game like GW2 and run the STORY to RELAX and UNWIND we just want to enjoy it.

    So, realistically, nothing will come of this discussion because those who don't care for challenge in story won't be able to get those who derive their validation from challenge to understand our point of view, much less agree with it or think it's valid to have. ANet seems to agree with those folks, so for now, it's crappy, over-mechaniccy 'raid'-like story, which is boring and not worth the short time some of us have to play. I'd rather spend an hour in WvW than sit alone in a story instance dying to unnecessary mechanics just so I can keep up with the main story of the game.

    The sad thing, the story quality (portrayl, dialogue, pacing) suffers tremendously in the current environment. ANet have a wonderful story arc and I'm very interested in it, but the story instances are so off kilter in pacing/energy/quality/detail that it feels like the story meeting went like "what's our arc this season? yeah good idea, let's do that. Ok what are the details? nah kitten detials, let's just make every fight super hard so we don't have to worry, they won't even realise there's no actual story and just an idea".

    The only part of the story I remember well is my conversation with Caithe when I was investigating the bloodstone fen explosion (from LS3). The dialogue was great, the writing and the way the scene was put together, the pacing of the dialogue in the final fight and the joke on timing, were fantastic. Memorable. Beautifully done. What do I remember from LS4? No dialogue. No good writing. Nothing beautiful to speak of. It's just boring and annoying and so I'm literally waiting until it's nerfed before I even bother with it, because it's so poorly presented it feels like it was done by a completely different team.

    Sorry but I have to respond to this. You just generalized the people in two categories - which, first of all - is very narrowminded and not constructive.

    You are looking at a guy who is compassionate and enthustiastic about the story and lore. I find the story instances relaxing. I get thrilled and fully into playing the story , whether it is me listening to a dialogue and immersing myself to the wonderful voice acting or me beating up a bad guy and empathizing with the Commander. I do not find the boss fights too hard or boring. Some of the fights are not super easy either - pre-nerf Eater of Souls, the Warbeast and Mordremoth being good examples. However, I dont think the Scruffy fight was anywhere near the difficulty of those encounters. Of course different players might perceive what is difficult in many ways. I think the flashy effects and big telegraphs freak out people more and make it seem harder than it truly is. The encounters dont feel long to me either but this could be because I'm running a raid set up.
    I dont find that I'm doing the story to stroke my ego or boast with my vicotires. I frankly dont care how well or badly I perform at it, I just want to enjoy the content - and I do. I am sorry some of you people dont feel the same way and that you struggle. But the story is absolutely doable by everyone and it does not require any major changes.

  • Nidome.1365Nidome.1365 Member ✭✭✭

    The fight they really need to overhaul is the one in PoF where Balthazar actually does kill you. The first time through is fine, but when you repeating it with other characters it is just frustrating knowing that you have to get Balthazar to a certain health point before he will kill you and you are fighting in a decreasing area with lots of aoe spamming all over the place. You just want to get it over with so you can get onto the next chapter but it just drags on and on. It is so depressing it almost makes you want to stop playing.