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[Suggestion] Stop making Story Bosses Hard (LS4 Spoilers)

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  • @Mil.3562 said:

    @Chickenooble.5014 said:
    I disagree with you guys. I think the story content should have a level of difficulty that provides a challenge to the player. If you, the player, can't figure out how to beat a fight then you die. That's how games should work; you should be rewarded to overcoming a challenge and punished for failing. The punishment in this game isn't drastic, either. You get to restart at checkpoints, you come back with your health, you don't lose items and the bosses seldom recover health in story content. You guys have it easy.

    If you're incapable of beating content on your own consider the following:
    1) Change your build. I can't think of a single class that doesn't have a good build for PvE content. That means you might need to change your weapon set, specializations or skills. When you die and respawn at a checkpoint you can make changes (in most cases) to help overcome obstacles in the current fight.
    2) Take some instant repair canisters with you. When you die so much that your armor is broken then you're not very effective. Repair before getting back into the fight.
    3) Party up with some friends. If you can't do it by yourself then bring others along.

    I'm not going to "git gud" or anything like that... but, the content isn't that hard. I think some people just need to learn to use all of the tools they have at their disposal and go into fight with the right gear and skill. For what it's worth, I run around in full exotics on all my characters (at best) and change my skills/weapons frequently to match whatever situation I find myself in. You guys should try that sometime.

    I disgree with you.

    Change my build? Buy repair canisters? Bring along a party? Are we talking about raids here?

    IMO, story content are meant to be enjoyable. For an average player, and there are many out there, having to die many times in order go through the story is not enjoyment, that's total frustration.

    This is supposed to be story progression. I want to discover new locations, plots and enjoy the gameplay along the way. Making the LS too challenging makes me want to give up or quickly get over it, too frustrated to care about anything else.

    I know there are many elitists out there who wants everything to be challenging and NOTHING to them is ever difficult. Well, good for you. For the rest of us, please let us enjoy our games.

    I'm about as "casual" (for lack of a better word) and while I agree the Scruffy 2.0 fight can be remarkably frustrating; I got caught in the beams and gave myself a migraine trying to get free, I think a degree of story difficulty isn't a bad thing.

    I get it. I do. Single player content should be doable but that doesn't mean that it shoul just be a cakewalk in my opinion. Something like the Scruffy 2.0 or Joko fight should require the player to use basic mechanics such as dodge rolling and break bars to be successful.

    I agree that one should not have to re-trait to be successful but on the flip side, if you're having difficulty re-traiting may make things easier for you. That's why we have the trait system after all-so we can meet each challenge optimally.

    I will say this though: once you do the fight the first time, the second time is much, much easier when you know what to expect. Stay tough. You absolutely can do it. I did and I downright can stink at the game.

  • Lucius.2140Lucius.2140 Member ✭✭✭

    @Ayakaru.6583 said:
    you mean.. Caladbolg?

    Yes.

    For the Blood Legion! - 11 charr

  • Menadena.7482Menadena.7482 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Khisanth.2948 said:
    Why bother playing a game if all they want is a story? There are other media format that would be more fitting and provides a better story to boot.

    I would gladly skip the story if I could have access to the new map and it was not used to kick off achievements like the bandolier. I do not need the blues/greens it gives and the bragging rights.

    New to the game? Feel free to give a yell if you need PVE help.

  • @battledrone.8315 said:

    @DreamyAbaddon.3265 said:

    @TheUndefined.1720 said:
    I made this suggestion back in my HoT review, and I'm going to make it here; Stop making PvE story bosses hard. I'm currently sitting in the active fight with Scruffy 2.0, dead, having died at least a dozens times, and I honestly just want to throw my hands up. The point where you frustrate your player to quitting is bad game design. I understand, as game developers, you want to make the fight epic - oh no! Taimi suffocating! I care and have to hurry, but I have massive amounts of projectiles, burning, aoe's, and a completely incompetent NPC that DOES NOT use his reflect as he should... that means I don't care about Taimi, I just want to get out of the fight.

    So here are some suggestions:

    • Lower the Bosses HP pool: The boss fight is taking way too long, and it is not enjoyable, take down the HP
    • Stop with the rapid fire AoE's AND projectiles: Slow down on the boss's attack
    • Relax on the complicated moves: This isn't a raid, it's a story boss, being solo'd, there's no need to make so difficult
    • Program a better companion: In every fight I did during LS4 (Sunspears, Corsairs, the rag tag team, Braham) they stopped attacking and just stood there.. seriously during the inquest swarm they all just stood there

    I know the automatic response from the forum goers will be "get better," sure, I'm willing to do that, I've tried doing that, but ANet keeps making their story bosses more and more difficult. This isn't fun anymore. Please chill out on the difficulty of the story bosses.

    Story bosses are not hard. You need to just learn how to play. I beat them all on almost all the classes. I really don't want them to nerf the game. Please just learn to dodge better and make your own builds that you know how to play to overcome challenges. Not that this game is challenging.

    if they arent hard, why do these threads keep popping up?
    "you need to overcome challenges.but this game isnt challenging"...what?
    so a challenge isnt challenging? please explain that one

    It keeps popping up because people literary don't put the time to learn the combat and build mechanics and they don't learn how to dodge or try new tactics.
    And I can't believe you're going to make me explain this but here it goes:
    You need to overcome challenges in a game to succeed. However this game isn't even challenging to begin with since anyone can succeed given they learn the mechanics. If this does not make sense too you then I do not know what will.

  • Menadena.7482Menadena.7482 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @DreamyAbaddon.3265 said:

    @battledrone.8315 said:

    @DreamyAbaddon.3265 said:

    @TheUndefined.1720 said:
    I made this suggestion back in my HoT review, and I'm going to make it here; Stop making PvE story bosses hard. I'm currently sitting in the active fight with Scruffy 2.0, dead, having died at least a dozens times, and I honestly just want to throw my hands up. The point where you frustrate your player to quitting is bad game design. I understand, as game developers, you want to make the fight epic - oh no! Taimi suffocating! I care and have to hurry, but I have massive amounts of projectiles, burning, aoe's, and a completely incompetent NPC that DOES NOT use his reflect as he should... that means I don't care about Taimi, I just want to get out of the fight.

    So here are some suggestions:

    • Lower the Bosses HP pool: The boss fight is taking way too long, and it is not enjoyable, take down the HP
    • Stop with the rapid fire AoE's AND projectiles: Slow down on the boss's attack
    • Relax on the complicated moves: This isn't a raid, it's a story boss, being solo'd, there's no need to make so difficult
    • Program a better companion: In every fight I did during LS4 (Sunspears, Corsairs, the rag tag team, Braham) they stopped attacking and just stood there.. seriously during the inquest swarm they all just stood there

    I know the automatic response from the forum goers will be "get better," sure, I'm willing to do that, I've tried doing that, but ANet keeps making their story bosses more and more difficult. This isn't fun anymore. Please chill out on the difficulty of the story bosses.

    Story bosses are not hard. You need to just learn how to play. I beat them all on almost all the classes. I really don't want them to nerf the game. Please just learn to dodge better and make your own builds that you know how to play to overcome challenges. Not that this game is challenging.

    if they arent hard, why do these threads keep popping up?
    "you need to overcome challenges.but this game isnt challenging"...what?
    so a challenge isnt challenging? please explain that one

    It keeps popping up because people literary don't put the time to learn the combat and build mechanics and they don't learn how to dodge or try new tactics.
    And I can't believe you're going to make me explain this but here it goes:
    You need to overcome challenges in a game to succeed. However this game isn't even challenging to begin with since anyone can succeed given they learn the mechanics. If this does not make sense too you then I do not know what will.

    Ah yes, the "git gud" complaint. sigh No matter what the reason is if something that is described as a story is too tough for part of your audience then there are really only two ways of solving the problem:

    • Make it easier. You can always make the encounter harder for yourself if you want to by doing things like only wearing blues and greens.
    • Make the difficulty selectable. This would be the better option, everyone gets what they want, both people who find it too hard and people who find it too easy.

    New to the game? Feel free to give a yell if you need PVE help.

  • Dante.1763Dante.1763 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Menadena.7482 said:

    @DreamyAbaddon.3265 said:

    @battledrone.8315 said:

    @DreamyAbaddon.3265 said:

    @TheUndefined.1720 said:
    I made this suggestion back in my HoT review, and I'm going to make it here; Stop making PvE story bosses hard. I'm currently sitting in the active fight with Scruffy 2.0, dead, having died at least a dozens times, and I honestly just want to throw my hands up. The point where you frustrate your player to quitting is bad game design. I understand, as game developers, you want to make the fight epic - oh no! Taimi suffocating! I care and have to hurry, but I have massive amounts of projectiles, burning, aoe's, and a completely incompetent NPC that DOES NOT use his reflect as he should... that means I don't care about Taimi, I just want to get out of the fight.

    So here are some suggestions:

    • Lower the Bosses HP pool: The boss fight is taking way too long, and it is not enjoyable, take down the HP
    • Stop with the rapid fire AoE's AND projectiles: Slow down on the boss's attack
    • Relax on the complicated moves: This isn't a raid, it's a story boss, being solo'd, there's no need to make so difficult
    • Program a better companion: In every fight I did during LS4 (Sunspears, Corsairs, the rag tag team, Braham) they stopped attacking and just stood there.. seriously during the inquest swarm they all just stood there

    I know the automatic response from the forum goers will be "get better," sure, I'm willing to do that, I've tried doing that, but ANet keeps making their story bosses more and more difficult. This isn't fun anymore. Please chill out on the difficulty of the story bosses.

    Story bosses are not hard. You need to just learn how to play. I beat them all on almost all the classes. I really don't want them to nerf the game. Please just learn to dodge better and make your own builds that you know how to play to overcome challenges. Not that this game is challenging.

    if they arent hard, why do these threads keep popping up?
    "you need to overcome challenges.but this game isnt challenging"...what?
    so a challenge isnt challenging? please explain that one

    It keeps popping up because people literary don't put the time to learn the combat and build mechanics and they don't learn how to dodge or try new tactics.
    And I can't believe you're going to make me explain this but here it goes:
    You need to overcome challenges in a game to succeed. However this game isn't even challenging to begin with since anyone can succeed given they learn the mechanics. If this does not make sense too you then I do not know what will.

    Ah yes, the "git gud" complaint. sigh No matter what the reason is if something that is described as a story is too tough for part of your audience then there are really only two ways of solving the problem:

    • Make it easier. You can always make the encounter harder for yourself if you want to by doing things like only wearing blues and greens.
    • Make the difficulty selectable. This would be the better option, everyone gets what they want, both people who find it too hard and people who find it too easy.

    Well, the "Git gud" theory has some accuracy in this game when a good player is doing 5x more damage than an average player...i wouldnt even want to imagine what an average player is doing over a bad player!!!

    Do agree about the selectable difficulty but still.

    Amana Silentchild; My Main
    Ember Wandertooth; The Kingslayer, Kianda Redpaw; The Blazing Light
    Why GW is Called Guildwars

  • was it season 2 in sw? idk that sw armor chieves were the hardest story instances for me, everything else since has been a certain method you had to figure out, but the fight itself wasn't that hard. Not understanding a fight made it frustrating and i think the devs need to do a better job showing you what to do/ how to fight in the lead up story bits b4 the main boss fight because sometimes its not very clear.

  • battledrone.8315battledrone.8315 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Shikaru.7618 said:

    @battledrone.8315 said:
    this thread is evidence, that the content IS the problem....but even if it wasnt...what then?
    that would mean, that they have made the right game for the wrong people, yes?

    I need to nail these 2 planks together but my no matter how hard I smash my kitchen sink on the nails I just can't seem to do the job. Something must be wrong with the nails.

    i didnt pay for the rights to nail planks, i bought a game, that was sold as the game for EVERYBODY.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Menadena.7482 said:

    @DreamyAbaddon.3265 said:

    @battledrone.8315 said:

    @DreamyAbaddon.3265 said:

    @TheUndefined.1720 said:
    I made this suggestion back in my HoT review, and I'm going to make it here; Stop making PvE story bosses hard. I'm currently sitting in the active fight with Scruffy 2.0, dead, having died at least a dozens times, and I honestly just want to throw my hands up. The point where you frustrate your player to quitting is bad game design. I understand, as game developers, you want to make the fight epic - oh no! Taimi suffocating! I care and have to hurry, but I have massive amounts of projectiles, burning, aoe's, and a completely incompetent NPC that DOES NOT use his reflect as he should... that means I don't care about Taimi, I just want to get out of the fight.

    So here are some suggestions:

    • Lower the Bosses HP pool: The boss fight is taking way too long, and it is not enjoyable, take down the HP
    • Stop with the rapid fire AoE's AND projectiles: Slow down on the boss's attack
    • Relax on the complicated moves: This isn't a raid, it's a story boss, being solo'd, there's no need to make so difficult
    • Program a better companion: In every fight I did during LS4 (Sunspears, Corsairs, the rag tag team, Braham) they stopped attacking and just stood there.. seriously during the inquest swarm they all just stood there

    I know the automatic response from the forum goers will be "get better," sure, I'm willing to do that, I've tried doing that, but ANet keeps making their story bosses more and more difficult. This isn't fun anymore. Please chill out on the difficulty of the story bosses.

    Story bosses are not hard. You need to just learn how to play. I beat them all on almost all the classes. I really don't want them to nerf the game. Please just learn to dodge better and make your own builds that you know how to play to overcome challenges. Not that this game is challenging.

    if they arent hard, why do these threads keep popping up?
    "you need to overcome challenges.but this game isnt challenging"...what?
    so a challenge isnt challenging? please explain that one

    It keeps popping up because people literary don't put the time to learn the combat and build mechanics and they don't learn how to dodge or try new tactics.
    And I can't believe you're going to make me explain this but here it goes:
    You need to overcome challenges in a game to succeed. However this game isn't even challenging to begin with since anyone can succeed given they learn the mechanics. If this does not make sense too you then I do not know what will.

    Ah yes, the "git gud" complaint. sigh No matter what the reason is if something that is described as a story is too tough for part of your audience then there are really only two ways of solving the problem:

    • Make it easier. You can always make the encounter harder for yourself if you want to by doing things like only wearing blues and greens.
    • Make the difficulty selectable. This would be the better option, everyone gets what they want, both people who find it too hard and people who find it too easy.

    Or players can just group up if they’re unable to complete a soloable story instance.

  • Haishao.6851Haishao.6851 Member ✭✭✭

    @battledrone.8315 said:

    @Shikaru.7618 said:

    @battledrone.8315 said:
    this thread is evidence, that the content IS the problem....but even if it wasnt...what then?
    that would mean, that they have made the right game for the wrong people, yes?

    I need to nail these 2 planks together but my no matter how hard I smash my kitchen sink on the nails I just can't seem to do the job. Something must be wrong with the nails.

    i didnt pay for the rights to nail planks, i bought a game, that was sold as the game for EVERYBODY.

    Every games are sold for everybody who wants to play games.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Menadena.7482 said:
    Ah yes, the "git gud" complaint. sigh No matter what the reason is if something that is described as a story is too tough for part of your audience then there are really only two ways of solving the problem:

    • Make it easier. You can always make the encounter harder for yourself if you want to by doing things like only wearing blues and greens.
    • Make the difficulty selectable. This would be the better option, everyone gets what they want, both people who find it too hard and people who find it too easy.

    Or the third and best solution:
    The players asks for help. If you find something difficult ask for help, either someone to get into the instance with you, or get advice on how to beat the content. There is very little need to change the content itself, it's faster and more efficient to change the player instead.

  • ProtoGunner.4953ProtoGunner.4953 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Why the long discussions. Some people aren't just as good as others. Just make difficulty settings. Or the ultra casuals should play Pokemon Go.

  • Menadena said: You can always make the encounter harder for yourself if you want to by doing things like only wearing blues and greens.

    Okay, Newbie question for ya...What are ya referring to by "Blues/Greens?
    Workin to learn 'bout Builds but, can't find this.
    Thx.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ProtoGunner.4953 said:
    Why the long discussions. Some people aren't just as good as others. Just make difficulty settings. Or the ultra casuals should play Pokemon Go.

    That would require extra resources/time when the simplest solution is for players that are unable to complete soloable content to just team up.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ProtoGunner.4953 said:
    Why the long discussions. Some people aren't just as good as others. Just make difficulty settings. Or the ultra casuals should play Pokemon Go.

    "Just" make difficulty settings, you say it as if it's the easiest thing to do that doesn't take development time and resources. And let's suppose they add an easy version of the boss fights, do you think these types of threads will end? I think not, unless this easier version is so easy a toddler can finish it while blindfolded, which means it's no longer a video game.

  • ProtoGunner.4953ProtoGunner.4953 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @ProtoGunner.4953 said:
    Why the long discussions. Some people aren't just as good as others. Just make difficulty settings. Or the ultra casuals should play Pokemon Go.

    "Just" make difficulty settings, you say it as if it's the easiest thing to do that doesn't take development time and resources. And let's suppose they add an easy version of the boss fights, do you think these types of threads will end? I think not, unless this easier version is so easy a toddler can finish it while blindfolded, which means it's no longer a video game.

    Well most other MMOs are able to pull that off. The constant argumentation that something needs resources and that's why we can't expect is, is just null and void. Of course it needs resources and manpower, that's normal. But if people ware asking for it like a kitten they should do it. Also, it's not that there is a sheer overload of content pushed out compared to other companies. Don't get me wrong: GW2 is really special, it's polished and they always put in gimmick and love, which takes longer than your usual standard MMO. But maybe they should restructure their priorities.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ProtoGunner.4953 said:
    Well most other MMOs are able to pull that off. The constant argumentation that something needs resources and that's why we can't expect is, is just null and void. Of course it needs resources and manpower, that's normal. But if people ware asking for it like a kitten they should do it. Also, it's not that there is a sheer overload of content pushed out compared to other companies. Don't get me wrong: GW2 is really special, it's polished and they always put in gimmick and love, which takes longer than your usual standard MMO. But maybe they should restructure their priorities.

    Are people really asking for this though? What's the metric? One forum post since the new forums were created? Also, if you know those other games that do it, do they have a gear treadmill where players get their second best gear from running those other difficulty modes? What I mean is, are those extra difficulty modes a way for more players to experience the story (as is what's being discussed here for GW2), or part of the game's gear progression. Because to my knowledge, games that do have multiple difficulties for their content, also have different gear tiers as rewards from them.

    And you didn't answer the second part of my comment, that is how easy is easy enough.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ProtoGunner.4953 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @ProtoGunner.4953 said:
    Why the long discussions. Some people aren't just as good as others. Just make difficulty settings. Or the ultra casuals should play Pokemon Go.

    "Just" make difficulty settings, you say it as if it's the easiest thing to do that doesn't take development time and resources. And let's suppose they add an easy version of the boss fights, do you think these types of threads will end? I think not, unless this easier version is so easy a toddler can finish it while blindfolded, which means it's no longer a video game.

    Well most other MMOs are able to pull that off. The constant argumentation that something needs resources and that's why we can't expect is, is just null and void. Of course it needs resources and manpower, that's normal. But if people ware asking for it like a kitten they should do it. Also, it's not that there is a sheer overload of content pushed out compared to other companies. Don't get me wrong: GW2 is really special, it's polished and they always put in gimmick and love, which takes longer than your usual standard MMO. But maybe they should restructure their priorities.

    Things taking resources isn’t suddenly null and void simply because other MMO do something similar to what’s requested.

    Actually, which MMO’s have an easy mode for story content?

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @MDove.2391 said:
    Menadena said: You can always make the encounter harder for yourself if you want to by doing things like only wearing blues and greens.

    Okay, Newbie question for ya...What are ya referring to by "Blues/Greens?
    Workin to learn 'bout Builds but, can't find this.
    Thx.

    They are talking about fine=blue and masterwork=green level of items.
    You also have white below blue and rare=yellow, exotic=orange and ascended purple

  • There are a few bosses I can think of that frustrated me to no end but Ill focus on the Scruffy fight the OP is talking about. I also got frustrated with it to the point that I quit the instance. Guildie also had trouble with this and we partied up and finished it together on his account. I never went back and tried it again solo. I know that most dont have a problem with the story content and I have been previously criticized in forum for complaining about it .... But I agree with the OP's suggestions in making it a more enjoyable experience.

    When life knocks you down ... Rollover and look at the Stars

  • Came back to the game after being gone since 2017 and stuck at the same boss, no further story line progress possible. As always, a disappointment and the reason I stop playing it yet again. Farming kitten just doesnt hold much appeal and thats all I can do in the game anymore.

  • Rasimir.6239Rasimir.6239 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Cataclysmm.3615 said:
    Came back to the game after being gone since 2017 and stuck at the same boss, no further story line progress possible. As always, a disappointment and the reason I stop playing it yet again. Farming kitten just doesnt hold much appeal and thats all I can do in the game anymore.

    What region are you playing in (NA or EU)? If you're on EU and willing to do the story in a group, I'll gladly join and help you out, and I'm sure there are others on both EU and NA that would do the same. Like people said in this thread (and many others like it), often it's just a few hints and suggestions needed to win (and even enjoy) all of the story fights.

    Aside from that, you can always start the next episode if you are stuck on one. If it's still the Scruffy fight at the end of the Istan episode you are stuck on, you aren't missing out on story if you jump straight to episode 2, as the Scruffy fight is the end of that episode.

  • Im on bloodhoof in NA, Appreciate the offer. I still have to sort why it says half my purchased storyline chapters give me a message that their paid for but contact customer support. I'll run some lower zones for awhile perhaps and try and get my rotation sorted, I cant seem to move and fight effectively any longer, too many games with different controls I suppose to blame and my long break from the game. I did not see a way to skip the fight or jump chapters but I'll relog and give it a better look, Thanks for the reply.

  • Magnus Godrik.5841Magnus Godrik.5841 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I wholeheartedly disagree with this post. You want the fight to be shorter then get yourself a dps build and practice and get better. The story bosses are pretty much lose proof as you essentially respawn without any real consequences like idk starting over from the beginning it having full hp again. And if you are truly having an issues you can easily ask a guildmate or 4 to help you out. On a side note anet really needs to look at a way to make these encounters replayable. Maybe in a survival mode or even tweak them into being a worldboss. I would love to have joko show up and him having an ultra rare awakened infusion that makes you look awakened.

  • Klowdy.3126Klowdy.3126 Member ✭✭✭

    The last time I had problems with a boss was Cadecus in LS3, but that was easy enough to power through, and still be half clothed. I was actually disappointed with the fight against kralk, way easier than I thought. If I'm not yelling at my screen, it's too easy, lol.

    The only time I ever run into problems 99% of the time, is when I tunnel, and don't pay attention to where I'm supposed to be going, or what I should be doing.

  • MoriMoriMori.5349MoriMoriMori.5349 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 14, 2019

    @Wandering Mist.2973 said:
    I'll be honest, when I saw the thread title my first reaction was "seriously? It's not that hard." But thinking back on that scuffy fight in particular I agree it dragged on for 2 long to the point where I did indeed stop caring about Taimi and just wanted to get the fight over with. I had similar issues with the PoF boss fights. After the first couple of minutes of of doing the same action over and over you get very tired of it. I think lowering the boss health pool would be a good thing, while keeping the difficulty up.

    Exactly my thought. I can't remember a single story boss which would be really hard. Quite opposite - almost all of the story is boringly easy, to the point I often didn't find enough incentive to continue. It's just that easy it stops being a game (as "press X to win" activity is NOT a game), thus I see no interest in doing it at all, it's boring.

    I guess they could add a special mode for story, like "click here to make it dumb easy if you don't want to play a game", but it must be optional.

  • Ashantara.8731Ashantara.8731 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ayakaru.6583 said:

    @Lucius.2140 said:
    Was the same with Rytlock sword and such since the start of the game (Caledborn for example- not sure if the name is right).

    you mean.. Caladbolg?

    @Lucius.2140: Rytlock's sword's name is Sohothin. Caladbolg was Trahearne's sword.

  • @Ellegon Mcleod.5931 said:
    In some ways I support the OP. Did some bosses on my own and the biggest problem I found was the fact that everything was targeted on you and you were so busy dodging you could no see the tells or anything else. If I looked I could not dodge and then died - if dodged could not look. Yes would like a easy to see hint if you die to often eg your NPC muttering about some stones they saw or something. You still need to do that but helps if feeling swamped and don't want to go to wiki for every battle.

    When I was with a friend who was the target I suddenly had a chance to see what was happening outside the spam of attack circles and could start to target some of the weaknesses. Sometimes just a chance to look makes a world of difference.

    That's why using some kind of summon helps a lot in such missions. Probably any profession in the game has some way to summon AI controlled punch-bag, there are even racial elite summon skills too.

  • Ayakaru.6583Ayakaru.6583 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ashantara.8731 said:

    @Ayakaru.6583 said:

    @Lucius.2140 said:
    Was the same with Rytlock sword and such since the start of the game (Caledborn for example- not sure if the name is right).

    you mean.. Caladbolg?

    @Lucius.2140: Rytlock's sword's name is Sohothin. Caladbolg was Trahearne's sword.

    Ye, i know, and there’s also Magdaer, which has been MIA since we lost Eir, and no one else cared enough to collect it

    To defeat the dragons, see the good in them.
    Zhaitan reunites lost ones, primordus creates fertile land, mordremoth spreads the green, and jormag..
    ..jormag? Who's that?

  • Charon.7825Charon.7825 Member
    edited July 27, 2019

    @TheUndefined.1720 said:
    I made this suggestion back in my HoT review, and I'm going to make it here; Stop making PvE story bosses hard. I'm currently sitting in the active fight with Scruffy 2.0, dead, having died at least a dozens times, and I honestly just want to throw my hands up. The point where you frustrate your player to quitting is bad game design. I understand, as game developers, you want to make the fight epic - oh no! Taimi suffocating! I care and have to hurry, but I have massive amounts of projectiles, burning, aoe's, and a completely incompetent NPC that DOES NOT use his reflect as he should... that means I don't care about Taimi, I just want to get out of the fight.

    So here are some suggestions:

    • Lower the Bosses HP pool: The boss fight is taking way too long, and it is not enjoyable, take down the HP
    • Stop with the rapid fire AoE's AND projectiles: Slow down on the boss's attack
    • Relax on the complicated moves: This isn't a raid, it's a story boss, being solo'd, there's no need to make so difficult
    • Program a better companion: In every fight I did during LS4 (Sunspears, Corsairs, the rag tag team, Braham) they stopped attacking and just stood there.. seriously during the inquest swarm they all just stood there

    I know the automatic response from the forum goers will be "get better," sure, I'm willing to do that, I've tried doing that, but ANet keeps making their story bosses more and more difficult. This isn't fun anymore. Please chill out on the difficulty of the story bosses.

    I know that this is a little late, but AMEN on your observations.

    When you have squishy characters (and the jerks who are modelling these stories KNOW there are squishy characters) - the 'intensity' level of these areas needs to be staggered based on a person's stats and character - not put top tier raid bosses in stories and expect for players to 'enjoy' their content. Honestly, I have been seeing a trend here too - and I think the sick sobs that design these "stories" love to sit back and J.O. to the idea that the vast majority of players come out of them totally nude with completely broken EQ.. Or - just LAZY DMs who say, "lets throw a lvl 99 boss against a lvl 1 chr, its ok - they'll get through it".. That , along with putting story quest lines in meta areas , which you can't even reach if the events are going on ; unless a group is there to clear it out for you (can't drag others along in your story, so no one's gonna clear it just so you can get in there) .. It's dumb, and irresponsible planning.

    Most MMORPG players walk away from games/content like this, not because the game itself isn't fun, but because the content is not consistent with a person's play style - or the mechanics are so vastly different from other MMORPGs that it makes many people just lose interest. They are fashioning their content around the whole 'group/guild' idea, when there's plenty of us who like to solo and just come on for a good time to grind and level... RPG means the content should be more focused around an actual D&D or AD&D metric system. Sure, I am not going to be going in to storm large metas by myself - BUT the equipment, and the stat structures SHOULD provide me with the ability to 'feel' like I am genuinely contributing if I decide to come in to one.. Again, squishy characters - you know what I am talking about. Its all and fine when you are 1-80, and just roaming around and doing core content - but after that, it's like "ok, what now" - even with PoF and HoT content added; it begins to just become senseless once you have all the mounts, have all the glider skills, and find that the ascended equipment, and legendary equipment do not really bolster any significant increase to your core stats; over exotic. So most players are asking the question "So now what" .. and moving on to another MMORPG, which is also why - GW2 has been losing tons of people, maps are empty of players (and their bots have to keep begging people to shift to another), and alot of times there isn't even enough people on to do the metas consistently in popular grind areas... Elitists of the game, don't bother replying - because you know as well as I do, GW2 is not populated anywhere near the way it was when the core came out - fact: people are just not interested in a MMORPG that is not really enjoyable or interesting to play past 80, and the expansions equal to nothing more than glam and prizes . So while you might enjoy grinding your heart out , other than getting in game gold and finishing collections; you're not going to be getting any better equipment, or any greater achievements except ranks on the leaderboards - and you know it.

    If the programmers were genuinely interested in keeping people's interest peaked - GW3 would already be released linking to GW2 .. But they're not.. 7 years and counting to a unique / but mainly dead MMORPG. Sadly, WoW has them beat hands down as far as content release.. And I hate Blizzard games.

  • mauried.5608mauried.5608 Member ✭✭✭

    I gave away all the living stories years ago, simply because they arnt fun.
    Just a mindless keyboard mashing exercise that goes on and on and eventually Ill probably win , but its just a fight of attrition where you slowly wear down some super monster after multiple retries from checkpoints and consuming multiple repair canisters.
    There seems to be a mindset in this game that all the activities MUST be challenging, whatever that means , but challenging to me means its not fun.

  • GoldenPants.1870GoldenPants.1870 Member ✭✭✭

    @Evolute.6239 said:
    But.. the story isn't difficult. None of the bosses have hard mechanics, and what mechanics they do have are introduced to you super early usually.

    I tend to agree, The only boss I really struggled with was Mordremoth in HoT, but that was on Migraine mode.

  • Safandula.8723Safandula.8723 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Excuse me, it's an mmo. If u got troubles with any bosses, mby look for other ppl that struggles as well? It's purpose of mmo

    make prepardness baseline plz

  • Tanner Blackfeather.6509Tanner Blackfeather.6509 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 27, 2019

    Playing together with a neurodivergent partner, story has become more and more stressful over time.

    I'm not sure I'd want boss damage orreduced attack speed reduced, but a few things would be nice:

    • Making the fights less busy. Just needing a second more to process sensory input than "normal" makes a lot of fights way harder. Add to that the barrage of effects (AoE circles, sounds, light flashes, etc) making it hard to see what is actually relevant and you have incredibly stressful fights.
    • Shorter instances, and/or clearer checkpoints. If we've fought through half an hour of stuff, it feels less bad to smash our head against the wall for an unknown while longer than exit, take a short break and try again when that might mean having to do it all again. If I could get a clear message about where I'll pick up if I left, I'd be much more inclined to experiment.
    • Lower boss HP would be nice to avoid drawn out fights, but I think the problem isn't really there. Instead I think it's the enormous disparity between average and good players that's the problem.

    Of course there should be a difference, but when good (not even top tier) players deal 5-6 times as much damage as average (not even mediocre) players, fights will inevitably cause tedium - good players blow through "burn phases" in 10 seconds and gets stopped by mechanics, while it takes average players minutes because of the inflated HP pool.

    Reduce the difference to a "mere" 2-3 times as much damage and the fights will probably be much easier to balance for a middle ground.

  • Cuks.8241Cuks.8241 Member ✭✭✭

    I would actually like harder fights than the LS4 ones. They felt to me like a step easier compared to Hot and even some Pof fights. Quite boring.

  • Liewec.2896Liewec.2896 Member ✭✭✭

    perhaps there should be a difficulty setting, i main minion master which is VERY easy for pve, the story is easy,
    but i also play staff zerker ele, and some story bits can be hard for such a squishy character.

  • hugo.4705hugo.4705 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 27, 2019

    Since back in 2013, fights became easier and easier, would like harder fight like scuffy in episode 1 of ls4, I know it's a story, but tuning even more down the bosses isn't a good thing. Or as a compromise, we could have a challenge mote before starting boss, you decide if you want the easy path with infinite rez and not hard or the tough path with a little more achievments for the ones seeking difficulty.

    Frankly anything is difficult if you aren't understanding the mechanics, remember exterminator outcry? It isn't that hard you just have to stay in close combat...

    Shiny links, take a look!
    ->Ideas: Housing , Designing a new lounge , New GameMode
    ->Project: ASURAN/PRIMORDIUS EXPANSION available on WIKI.
    ->NEW: Crucible of Eternity path 4: Legacy on WIKI
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  • Poormany.4507Poormany.4507 Member ✭✭✭

    Story bosses already got heavily nerfed during/after PoF after HoT and LWS3. Story bosses aren't even that bad, as long as you get the mechanics, and if you need help, just get one more player to help and its enough (unless you're going for achievements/challenge mode, for which you just need to get 2-3+ more players). I did PoF solo on my squishy core ele (although 1 or 2 times fighting with no armor left) and with several other core builds (didn't even break any armor on my ranger and revenant), so I definitely don't think we need more nerfs than have already been done. Otherwise it would just be a bunch of bash 1 solo fights, which would be boring with no challenge at all.

  • Odinens.5920Odinens.5920 Member ✭✭✭

    Once you understand the mechanics of each boss the fights are easy. (as someone was trying to argue) It has absolutely nothing to do with how much dps a new player vs a veteran player puts out. The first time I fight a boss in new LW episodes I struggle, because sometimes the mechanics just don't "click" for me, but once I do figure it out it's easy-mode.

    Story mode bosses are not hard in this game. Their mechanics may be a bit ridiculous to figure out at first, but they aren't game breaking, so please, quit trying to make the game so easy that it's not even remotely challenging for anyone.

  • FOX.3582FOX.3582 Member ✭✭✭

    With serious respect (no sarcasm), if you even have the slightest trouble with the story is this game, you should find another hobby.

  • @Laila Lightness.8742 said:
    No one said pve bosses should be easy that would defeat the purpose of even having bosses

    Yes. But defeating them should be doable. This is a story. Story. Not a raid, Not a frac, not a dungeon, it is a story!!!!!

    Stories should be doable for all skill levels.

    Arenanet needs to find one of their employee's sainted grannies, the type of granny who bakes cookies and pinches your cheek, seat her in front of the living story and make sure she can complete it.

    If she can, it is a wrap.

    Lisa-groused about this very thing all the way through the survey

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 28, 2019

    They already made it impossible to lose story fights, it was their compromise between putting players to sleep if it's too easy and making it tough to complete if it's too hard. With the ability to return and continue the fight from where you left off all players have their chance to beat the story.

    @Julischka Bean.7491 said:
    Stories should be doable for all skill levels.

    The first instance of the game yes, as it is a tutorial. Expansion content though? Why should higher level, and expansion level content, be of the same difficulty as the tutorial? You are supposed to learn from tutorials and improve, that's their purpose.

  • flog.3485flog.3485 Member ✭✭✭

    @Julischka Bean.7491 said:

    @Laila Lightness.8742 said:
    No one said pve bosses should be easy that would defeat the purpose of even having bosses

    Yes. But defeating them should be doable. This is a story. Story. Not a raid, Not a frac, not a dungeon, it is a story!!!!!

    Stories should be doable for all skill levels.

    Arenanet needs to find one of their employee's sainted grannies, the type of granny who bakes cookies and pinches your cheek, seat her in front of the living story and make sure she can complete it.

    If she can, it is a wrap.

    Lisa-groused about this very thing all the way through the survey

    That is all nice but now you make it sound like players has no option whatsoever, other than being shoehorned into using only offensive utilities with offensive skills with offensive weapons, with no knowledge whatsoever of what to do.

    And well you know, we have many options.
    Sadly, so few seem to care about it or even worse, to know about.

  • battledrone.8315battledrone.8315 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Haishao.6851 said:

    @battledrone.8315 said:

    @Shikaru.7618 said:

    @battledrone.8315 said:
    this thread is evidence, that the content IS the problem....but even if it wasnt...what then?
    that would mean, that they have made the right game for the wrong people, yes?

    I need to nail these 2 planks together but my no matter how hard I smash my kitchen sink on the nails I just can't seem to do the job. Something must be wrong with the nails.

    i didnt pay for the rights to nail planks, i bought a game, that was sold as the game for EVERYBODY.

    Every games are sold for everybody who wants to play games.

    so, any player should play be able to play ALL games? do you even know, what you are talking about?
    there are differences you know...i would never touch a soccer game

  • battledrone.8315battledrone.8315 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @flog.3485 said:

    @Julischka Bean.7491 said:

    @Laila Lightness.8742 said:
    No one said pve bosses should be easy that would defeat the purpose of even having bosses

    Yes. But defeating them should be doable. This is a story. Story. Not a raid, Not a frac, not a dungeon, it is a story!!!!!

    Stories should be doable for all skill levels.

    Arenanet needs to find one of their employee's sainted grannies, the type of granny who bakes cookies and pinches your cheek, seat her in front of the living story and make sure she can complete it.

    If she can, it is a wrap.

    Lisa-groused about this very thing all the way through the survey

    That is all nice but now you make it sound like players has no option whatsoever, other than being shoehorned into using only offensive utilities with offensive skills with offensive weapons, with no knowledge whatsoever of what to do.

    And well you know, we have many options.
    Sadly, so few seem to care about it or even worse, to know about.

    shoehorned is what we have now...one size fits all.
    this is actually harder , than many other mmos end game content..i can raid in dcuo, and get 2-3 gear upgrades with much less effort
    but of course i have to pay a sub fee for that privilege

  • Ultramex.1506Ultramex.1506 Member ✭✭✭

    Yea......beside Golem Taimi (which make me swear a lot) i managed to breeze through other LW bosses, the only difficulty is trying to get achievement especially timed, i used engineer though so i probably would have more problem if i play squishy classes.

  • nembool.5981nembool.5981 Member ✭✭

    Two points here:- Firstly, the mechanics are often poorly signposted, with illogical invulnerability phases and massive AOE effects. It's not easy to work out what you need to do when you're dodging/healing/kiting.
    Secondly, DPS isn't everything. If I want to play a build focused on boon-sharing, or healing allies, I should be able to and still have a decent chance of getting through an instance. The fact that I can't implies that the encounter isn't designed fairly. Perhaps that's the flaw in the underlying GW2 mechanics.

  • flog.3485flog.3485 Member ✭✭✭

    @battledrone.8315 said:

    @flog.3485 said:

    @Julischka Bean.7491 said:

    @Laila Lightness.8742 said:
    No one said pve bosses should be easy that would defeat the purpose of even having bosses

    Yes. But defeating them should be doable. This is a story. Story. Not a raid, Not a frac, not a dungeon, it is a story!!!!!

    Stories should be doable for all skill levels.

    Arenanet needs to find one of their employee's sainted grannies, the type of granny who bakes cookies and pinches your cheek, seat her in front of the living story and make sure she can complete it.

    If she can, it is a wrap.

    Lisa-groused about this very thing all the way through the survey

    That is all nice but now you make it sound like players has no option whatsoever, other than being shoehorned into using only offensive utilities with offensive skills with offensive weapons, with no knowledge whatsoever of what to do.

    And well you know, we have many options.
    Sadly, so few seem to care about it or even worse, to know about.

    shoehorned is what we have now...one size fits all.
    this is actually harder , than many other mmos end game content..i can raid in dcuo, and get 2-3 gear upgrades with much less effort
    but of course i have to pay a sub fee for that privilege

    How is it shoehorned though ? All professions can rely on ranged weapons when players are not skilled enough to go melee. All professions have access to different types of gear that can combine damages and sustain and they all have access to evades, invulnerability or heavy sustain ability (that are not always tied to defensive stats) as well as sigils and and food and utilities that improve this sort of sustain.

    All you really need to do is not to burn all your cooldowns every time a skill is available. That is straight up a lack of knowledge.