Protection and Regeneration boons rework

I'm writing this post with the idea to level the class balance in raids and fractals a little bit. And also to make a few (perceived as) underpowered boons more interesting to use.

1. Make Protection and Regeneration stack up to 5 times, but change Protection to reduce 10% incoming damage per stack. Keep Regeneration as is or tone it down just a little bit, but adding the potential to create 5 times stronger Regenerations with 5 stacks!2. Remove the boon rip from the Mesmer sword Auto Attack: Mind Spike3. Let pretty much all (or 90% of) the Raid bosses and a lot of Fractal bosses start with 5 stacks of the new Protection and Regeneration and let them maintain/re-apply it on regular intervals.4 Adjust where needed player boon application in a way that for instance applying 5 stacks of Protection/regeneration by yourself is (nearly) impossible.

These changes would not be a very good idea to implement in WvW !!! (to state the obvious) (different discussion altogether: but you could think of a maximum of only 3 or even 2 stacks there)

My initial idea behind this is to make the Necro (and maybe also the Spellbreaker) with all its boon-hate a more viable and even optimal option in most Raids (and Fractals) instead of just 1 or 2 of them. Also it would maybe adjust the for years long Chrono heavy meta a little bit. I won't count on it, but it might emerge some other complex solutions involving Guardians, Revenants, Necros ... (or maybe not ... we'll have to see). Furthermore, it makes Protection and Regeneration (maybe even as condi counter) more sexy (again)!

Partial agreement.

1: Regen desperately needs a redo other than "stack duration", I think stacking intensity but limiting maximum stacks would help tremendously with regen's relative weakness compared to anything else. I don't know if I can agree with the protection change you suggest though, as 50% damage reduction would be absolutely awful for raid balance. A rework may be useful, but I can't say i think protection should be first on the block2: I'm willing to consider it, but instead of outright removing it, put it on something with a cooldown (like the shatters).3: There are already a few bosses like this in both fractals and raids (Viraastra for example continually applies 25 might and protection), and I'm not a fan of standardizing mechanics (variety is the spice of life). There's a place for boonstrips, but if you are going to remove them from a common class you shouldn't just add them willy-nilly. Too many factors to consider.4: There's already tradeoffs built into most classes. Druids give up all offensive capabilities to give max might, regen, and healing, scourges give up damage to give more boons/boonstrip/barrier, warriors give up offensive utilities for banners, etc. Adjustments are not as necessary as you imply given there are significant tradeoffs for nearly everything in the game already. If such things were to be considered, the regen/prot rework should occur first and allowed to settle before tackling players' abilities to stack them as there's already so much going in.

Scourge and Spellbreaker are already both viable. Sure, I see spellbreakers less often, but that doesn't mean they are totally ineffective. I also never really see any necros OTHER than Scourges.

Not a fan of 50% DR, and im sure Anet isn't either given we've had skills that did that before and they had to be reigned in to be 33%.I think currently the only exception to this is great dwarf.

Regen needs a change for a sake of it not because dungeons or fractals need it. This change to fractals considering how bosses apply said boons would just make it more anoying.

Prot works fine makinf fractals more condi friendly and boonstrip friendly while phasing bosses and all keep condi soecs in line with the power ones.

@"Agrippa Oculus.3726" said:I'm writing this post with the idea to level the class balance in raids and fractals a little bit. And also to make a few (perceived as) underpowered boons more interesting to use.

1. Make Protection and Regeneration stack up to 5 times, but change Protection to reduce 10% incoming damage per stack. Keep Regeneration as is or tone it down just a little bit, but adding the potential to create 5 times stronger Regenerations with 5 stacks!2. Remove the boon rip from the Mesmer sword Auto Attack: Mind Spike3. Let pretty much all (or 90% of) the Raid bosses and a lot of Fractal bosses start with 5 stacks of the new Protection and Regeneration and let them maintain/re-apply it on regular intervals.4 Adjust where needed player boon application in a way that for instance applying 5 stacks of Protection/regeneration by yourself is (nearly) impossible.

These changes would not be a very good idea to implement in WvW !!! (to state the obvious) (different discussion altogether: but you could think of a maximum of only 3 or even 2 stacks there)

My initial idea behind this is to make the Necro (and maybe also the Spellbreaker) with all its boon-hate a more viable and even optimal option in most Raids (and Fractals) instead of just 1 or 2 of them. Also it would maybe adjust the for years long Chrono heavy meta a little bit. I won't count on it, but it might emerge some other complex solutions involving Guardians, Revenants, Necros ... (or maybe not ... we'll have to see). Furthermore, it makes Protection and Regeneration (maybe even as condi counter) more sexy (again)!

We already had 50% DR in the game at HoT launch, and it was removed for being too ridiculously overpowered. Protection is fine as it is.

Also, I like how in a thread about redoing boons, you managed to sneak in a nerf mesmer request. How biased.

I have wanted regeneration to stack intensity up to 25 (with very rebalanced healing numbers) for a very long time. The very notion that certain healing classes have to be aware of whether or not they can 'beat' a Chronomancer's SoI regeneration is ridiculous. I don't particularly agree with your protection idea, though; I think it's fine as-is.

2018 is near.Maybe we will have bosses with base condi dmg reduction as for physical dmg.

@TexZero.7910 said:Not a fan of 50% DR, and im sure Anet isn't either given we've had skills that did that before and they had to be reigned in to be 33%.I think currently the only exception to this is great dwarf.

33% is really weak though, nowhere near desirable enough to be worth taking over other stuff. When you're given a choice between prot, stability or vigor, you're never going to take prot.

@Rennie.6750 said:

@TexZero.7910 said:Not a fan of 50% DR, and im sure Anet isn't either given we've had skills that did that before and they had to be reigned in to be 33%.I think currently the only exception to this is great dwarf.

Untrue. If there's no CC i wont take stab and if the encounter uses faster less damaging attacks i'll take prot over vigor.Also we're never that limited, especially when guardians exist.

Lets make every boss get boons all the time so necro can be meta? You really didnt think this through, have you? Suffice to say that even if that happened chronos would just get disenchanter which ofc would leave necro in the exact same state.

Protection and regeneration are more than just defensive once you consider the synergy between these boons and Scholar runes. Even a straight up DPS increase in many cases given the "tick based" damage and some other factors in raids. They become more powerful with every set of Scholar runes that you add to the squad. Some of these builds benefit even further in terms of damage through their +% per boon traits.Not to mention the easy squad wide access through a single druid running Harrier nowadays which makes relying on these boons an obvious choice even if you do not run a single set of scholar or have to consider any traits on anyone. The defensive benefits are still there.ArenaNet could take the step the OP proposed to rebalance defensive boons over multiple classes but I do not believe any changes are needed to make either regeneration or protection any more desirable. Those who refuse to see a reason to use them now will still refuse to use them after the change. Even more so if they are required to dedicated an additional person to support through boons compared to the single druid you can use now.

Not a fan of pulsing boons on all of the bosses. This would be rather obnoxious for anyone not able to go with heavy boon removal. It would turn the highest DPS build with a stable amount of removal into a musthave equal to that of the chronomancer while also push condition builds even higher since they do not have to worry about protection on enemies. No offense but I feel like there is a lot of bias towards a favorite class here.And even if they did these changes, we'd see far more renegades in such a scenario while scourges would still remain a less effective option. They need a small DPS buff rather than anything else and possibly an offensive trait to affect your party.

Let me first and foremost agree to the fact that I am biased. Just like pretty much everyone else here! I don't believe in (perfect) neutrality, definitely not from the players. And I don't even think ANet is expecting that from us. We as the players all have our preferred classes/mains, etc. I'm a Necro by heart! So, now that's out of the way, is it strange that I ask for improving the Necro's viability in Raids and high level fractals? They've never really been meta (in general), except for maybe a couple of weeks in total, and that was because of "bugs" that got them there!Furthermore, because history kind of proves that changes to the Necro itself never really pushed them in the meta (so far, only out: "bug fixes"), I thought, let's try it from a different perspective: changes to encounters and one simple nerf to the (very) long-sitting meta competition.

But more OT:For most of the posts: thanks for some very good constructive criticism, i.e. about protection and also the re-applying effect of it. I wanted to stay as concise as possible in the OP (and as you can see, still found a very hard time doing that :)), so that people actually read it, but could get more into the details in a later stage.

I'm not very keen about the idea of adding mandatory boon-strip in all encounters. There are few like that already, it's fine, let's not go overboard. I understand your desire to push Necromancer in the meta, but the thing is, I don't believe that's the right way. Look it that way - you're never going to compete with chrono, in its current state, even if you remove the AA boonstrip. Their offensive support is too good to pass and their distortion is invaluable. They also have different sources of boonstrip (they are expected to run Phantasmal Disenchanter in certain fractals for instance), so unless you're willing to cut off the access to boonstrip from the class completely, the only other option is to push ridiculous amounts of boons that simply have to be stripped from bosses. It is possible, but it will create long, tedious fights.

Personally, I'd think of playing to a different strength of the Necromancer. I like having one on certain fights for the Epidemic. It's a really useful skill, but I admit it's not enough to push it into meta. When talking about boons, corruption also comes to mind, and it's kinda one of the signature Necro things. So maybe you could think along that line instead?

@OriOri.8724 said:

@"Agrippa Oculus.3726" said:I'm writing this post with the idea to level the class balance in raids and fractals a

little

bit. And also to make a few (perceived as) underpowered boons more interesting to use.

1.

Make

Protection

and

Regeneration

stack up to 5 times, but change Protection to reduce 10% incoming damage per stack. Keep Regeneration as is or tone it down just a little bit, but adding the potential to create 5 times stronger Regenerations with 5 stacks!

2.

Remove the boon rip from the Mesmer sword Auto Attack:

Mind Spike

3.

Let pretty much all (or 90% of) the Raid bosses and a lot of Fractal bosses start with 5 stacks of the new Protection and Regeneration and let them maintain/re-apply it on regular intervals.

4

Adjust where needed player boon application in a way that for instance applying 5 stacks of Protection/regeneration by yourself is (nearly) impossible.

These changes would not be a very good idea to implement in WvW !!!

(to state the obvious) (different discussion altogether: but you could think of a maximum of only 3 or even 2 stacks there)

My initial idea behind this is to make the Necro (and maybe also the Spellbreaker) with all its boon-hate a more viable and even optimal option in

most

Raids (and Fractals) instead of just 1 or 2 of them. Also it would

maybe

adjust the for years long Chrono heavy meta a little bit. I won't count on it, but it

might

emerge some other complex solutions involving Guardians, Revenants, Necros ... (or maybe not ... we'll have to see). Furthermore, it makes Protection and Regeneration (maybe even as condi counter) more sexy (again)!

And i was wondering where are the mesmer mains.

@zealex.9410 said:

@OriOri.8724 said:

@"Agrippa Oculus.3726" said:I'm writing this post with the idea to level the class balance in raids and fractals a

little

bit. And also to make a few (perceived as) underpowered boons more interesting to use.

1.

Make

Protection

and

Regeneration

stack up to 5 times, but change Protection to reduce 10% incoming damage per stack. Keep Regeneration as is or tone it down just a little bit, but adding the potential to create 5 times stronger Regenerations with 5 stacks!

2.

Remove the boon rip from the Mesmer sword Auto Attack:

Mind Spike

3.

Let pretty much all (or 90% of) the Raid bosses and a lot of Fractal bosses start with 5 stacks of the new Protection and Regeneration and let them maintain/re-apply it on regular intervals.

4

Adjust where needed player boon application in a way that for instance applying 5 stacks of Protection/regeneration by yourself is (nearly) impossible.

These changes would not be a very good idea to implement in WvW !!!

(to state the obvious) (different discussion altogether: but you could think of a maximum of only 3 or even 2 stacks there)

My initial idea behind this is to make the Necro (and maybe also the Spellbreaker) with all its boon-hate a more viable and even optimal option in

most

Raids (and Fractals) instead of just 1 or 2 of them. Also it would

maybe

adjust the for years long Chrono heavy meta a little bit. I won't count on it, but it

might

emerge some other complex solutions involving Guardians, Revenants, Necros ... (or maybe not ... we'll have to see). Furthermore, it makes Protection and Regeneration (maybe even as condi counter) more sexy (again)!

Do you really think his request to nerf mesmer is at all related to changing protection and regeneration? Of course it isn't.

@Feanor.2358 said:I'm not very keen about the idea of adding mandatory boon-strip in all encounters. There are few like that already, it's fine, let's not go overboard. I understand your desire to push Necromancer in the meta, but the thing is, I don't believe that's the right way. Look it that way - you're never going to compete with chrono, in its current state, even if you remove the AA boonstrip. Their offensive support is too good to pass and their distortion is invaluable. They also have different sources of boonstrip (they are expected to run Phantasmal Disenchanter in certain fractals for instance), so unless you're willing to cut off the access to boonstrip from the class completely, the only other option is to push ridiculous amounts of boons that simply have to be stripped from bosses. It is possible, but it will create long, tedious fights.

Agree, the main issue with the necromancer is where anet push it with every new e-spec and balance patch. Anet badly want the necromancer support to be based around conditions management and corruptions. It's fine to a point in PvP/WvW but fail to achieve anything in PvE. In my opinion, the best way would be to open a new path in the necromancer's tools that would leave the PvP/WvW side almost unharmed and impact PvE positively for the necromancer. That's also why we were asking for a trait that grant the core necromancer an unique toughness debuff. Nobody would have cared about it in PvP/WvW but in PvE this would have had a substancial impact and most likely made the necromancer welcome.

Personally, I'd think of playing to a different strength of the Necromancer. I like having one on certain fights for the Epidemic. It's a really useful skill, but I admit it's not enough to push it into meta. When talking about boons, corruption also comes to mind, and it's kinda one of the signature Necro things. So maybe you could think along that line instead?

That's the idea of the op but it's bound to fail. Boon corruption have reached a point where it has become toxic and in PvE it's not even enough for the necromancer to have a place. The necromancer need something different, it need a path which help it's whole team. If the necromancer role is to support it's allies by debuffing it's foes, it meant that some of the necromancer's tools should allow him to bypass the soft condi cap throught some unique debuff. The whole boon corruption thing have gone to far and hurt the game more than it help the necromancer.

No, really, anet need to stop digging in the "boon corruption" folder. On a boss, the chrono will forever be able to do the boon ripping job and have loads of usefull support on top of that. The necromancer do not need more corruption, the necromancer need an extra that is unique to him and make him valuable on the long run. Condition management, boon corruption? Anet already wasted to much time on this. These are not something that will help a necromancer in finding a group. It's time to go down a different path not time to rot on things that already prove worthless.

@Dadnir.5038 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:I'm not very keen about the idea of adding mandatory boon-strip in all encounters. There are few like that already, it's fine, let's not go overboard. I understand your desire to push Necromancer in the meta, but the thing is, I don't believe that's the right way. Look it that way - you're never going to compete with chrono, in its current state, even if you remove the AA boonstrip. Their offensive support is too good to pass and their distortion is invaluable. They also have different sources of boonstrip (they are expected to run Phantasmal Disenchanter in certain fractals for instance), so unless you're willing to cut off the access to boonstrip from the class completely, the only other option is to push ridiculous amounts of boons that simply have to be stripped from bosses. It is possible, but it will create long, tedious fights.

Personally, I'd think of playing to a different strength of the Necromancer. I like having one on certain fights for the Epidemic. It's a really useful skill, but I admit it's not enough to push it into meta. When talking about boons, corruption also comes to mind, and it's kinda one of the signature Necro things. So maybe you could think along that line instead?

OK, fair enough. The thing with the unique profession-specific enhancements is they can very easily become a mandatory pick. But a toughness debuff sounds neutral enough.

Even if raid bosses had tons of boons on them, Id probably rather bring a chrono and spellbreaker for that.

No, forcing boon corruption into PvE is not the solution. De-coupling utility and DPS for necro however is. But thats never gonna happen, since that would mean a complete rework of necro, reaper and scourge.

Protection and regeneration need rework, thats true. But rather regeneration should stack by intensity instead of duration and protection needs to work against conditions as well. Pure immunity for a short duration thats offered by resistance wont work very well with the planned changes to burstiness of conditions.

@OriOri.8724 said:

@zealex.9410 said:

@OriOri.8724 said:

@"Agrippa Oculus.3726" said:I'm writing this post with the idea to level the class balance in raids and fractals a

little

bit. And also to make a few (perceived as) underpowered boons more interesting to use.

1.

Make

Protection

and

Regeneration

stack up to 5 times, but change Protection to reduce 10% incoming damage per stack. Keep Regeneration as is or tone it down just a little bit, but adding the potential to create 5 times stronger Regenerations with 5 stacks!

2.

Remove the boon rip from the Mesmer sword Auto Attack:

Mind Spike

3.

Let pretty much all (or 90% of) the Raid bosses and a lot of Fractal bosses start with 5 stacks of the new Protection and Regeneration and let them maintain/re-apply it on regular intervals.

4

Adjust where needed player boon application in a way that for instance applying 5 stacks of Protection/regeneration by yourself is (nearly) impossible.

These changes would not be a very good idea to implement in WvW !!!

(to state the obvious) (different discussion altogether: but you could think of a maximum of only 3 or even 2 stacks there)

My initial idea behind this is to make the Necro (and maybe also the Spellbreaker) with all its boon-hate a more viable and even optimal option in

most

Raids (and Fractals) instead of just 1 or 2 of them. Also it would

maybe

adjust the for years long Chrono heavy meta a little bit. I won't count on it, but it

might

emerge some other complex solutions involving Guardians, Revenants, Necros ... (or maybe not ... we'll have to see). Furthermore, it makes Protection and Regeneration (maybe even as condi counter) more sexy (again)!

Im not supporting him. I was just surpised no one had picked up on it yet.

50% damage reduction being possible through protection sounds pretty broken.Just imagining how mandatory stone spirit/ hammer guard would become (though that is one way to shoehorn in a harriers heal guard).

Changing regen to stack in intensity would be interesting. Even though it means lots of skills need the stack count looked at, along with base heal + scaling of regen.

I'd also not be against some encounters having more boons. I could see some shenanigans with spellbreaker bubble in raids, combined with phases/bursty mechanics.

After reading all the comments above let me go through the steps again with some of the feedback in mind:

1. Regeneration 5 stacks: a lot of people actually agree on this or at least agree on a redo of the boon instead of it having just a stacking duration.Protection: 50% damage reduction might be a bit too much, but instead of capping it to for instance 4 stacks or make it 7% or 8% per stack, I'd like to change step 3 and step 4 to make sure Protection is rarely getting to the 5 stacks point in the first place!

2. Let me elaborate a bit more on this. At the very moment, Chrono is undisputed meta in high-end PvE and has been for a while now. And it's not just because of 1 or 2 niche areas that they're good at, it's because they're the absolute best in multiple areas and very good in even more areas. Enchant removal is one of them. In my opinion, it wouldn't hurt (PvE) balance, if for the mesmer this could be a bit toned down ... they still have many areas left at which they still would rule the playing field! Also, without buffing the Necro this would make them (and the Spellbreaker) more important in at least that area.Nerfing Mind Spike would only be a start! I actually believe even more disenchant skills from the mesmer need a nerf (sorry mesmers, I know, I really have it coming for you ... this while atm I play most on my mesmer (mainly to avoid kicks in Fractals and Raids) :) )!BUT ... I wouldn't mind if they receive buffs as well, but in a complete different area and obviously in moderation (we don't want to give them another top pick area). E.g.: Mind Spike gets a couple of stacks of (the new) Vulnerability on top of it. Or maybe a very short Immobilize. All up for discussion of course!

3. Ok, if I read most of the comments it's probably not the best idea to jump right in and give every single boss in Raids and Fractals 5 stacks of both Regen and Prot and to also let them maintain that fiercely.First of all, how many bosses: I'd say a lot, but not all (we want to keep some different flavors): 70% or 80% of them!Furthermore, on maintaining the boons: what about a mechanic where the boss starts with one stack of each and increments them slowly over time (every 5 seconds or so) until they hit 5 stacks, and will then automatically break down their stacks, until they hit 0, and the process will start over again. In this case you can still choose to not take boon-hate, but you will be a lot less effective, but what I like the most about it, is that you can time your burst damage better (moving away from static rotations, etc.).

4. Same principle, but a bit more strict, definitely make it impossible for anyone to get to 5 stacks of protection on your own, you need at least 2 or rather even 3 players, in order to get 5 stacks ... Also make a lot of prot sources shorter in duration!I think Regen application would be ok as it is right now (but needs to be thoroughly tested of course).

@Agrippa Oculus.3726 said:After reading all the comments above let me go through the steps again with some of the feedback in mind:

1. Regeneration 5 stacks: a lot of people actually agree on this or at least agree on a redo of the boon instead of it having just a stacking duration.Protection: 50% damage reduction might be a bit too much, but instead of capping it to for instance 4 stacks or make it 7% or 8% per stack, I'd like to change step 3 and step 4 to make sure Protection is rarely getting to the 5 stacks point in the first place!

Regeneration needs a rework, and it has literally nothing to do with the reasons you have mentioned. That said, anyone expecting high level of regen healing can wait for ages. It would not work well with the active combat system in GW2 and would trivialize a ton of content and encounters.

@Agrippa Oculus.3726 said:

2. Let me elaborate a bit more on this. At the very moment, Chrono is undisputed meta in high-end PvE and has been for a while now. And it's not just because of 1 or 2 niche areas that they're good at, it's because they're the absolute best in multiple areas and very good in even more areas. Enchant removal is one of them. In my opinion, it wouldn't hurt (PvE) balance, if for the mesmer this could be a bit toned down ... they still have many areas left at which they still would rule the playing field! Also, without buffing the Necro this would make them (and the Spellbreaker) more important in at least that area.Nerfing Mind Spike would only be a start! I actually believe even more disenchant skills from the mesmer need a nerf (sorry mesmers, I know, I really have it coming for you ... this while atm I play most on my mesmer (mainly to avoid kicks in Fractals and Raids) :) )!BUT ... I wouldn't mind if they receive buffs as well, but in a complete different area and obviously in moderation (we don't want to give them another top pick area). E.g.: Mind Spike gets a couple of stacks of (the new) Vulnerability on top of it. Or maybe a very short Immobilize. All up for discussion of course!

Mesmer boon removal has NOTHING to do with chrono dominance in raids (I'm assuming this is your main gripe). But sure, let's open this box of pandora. You do realize the class right after mesmer (actually even before mesmer if we consider all game modes) which would receive scrutiny is necromancer right? Necro has an absolutely unjustified amount of boon corruption at the moment. Not as useful in pve, but there are those spvp and wvw game modes aren't there?

3. Ok, if I read most of the comments it's probably not the best idea to jump right in and give every single boss in Raids and Fractals 5 stacks of both Regen and Prot and to also let them maintain that fiercely.First of all, how many bosses: I'd say a lot, but not all (we want to keep some different flavors): 70% or 80% of them!Furthermore, on maintaining the boons: what about a mechanic where the boss starts with one stack of each and increments them slowly over time (every 5 seconds or so) until they hit 5 stacks, and will then automatically break down their stacks, until they hit 0, and the process will start over again. In this case you can still choose to not take boon-hate, but you will be a lot less effective, but what I like the most about it, is that you can time your burst damage better (moving away from static rotations, etc.).

4. Same principle, but a bit more strict, definitely make it impossible for anyone to get to 5 stacks of protection on your own, you need at least 2 or rather even 3 players, in order to get 5 stacks ... Also make a lot of prot sources shorter in duration!I think Regen application would be ok as it is right now (but needs to be thoroughly tested of course).

More boons on bosses just means extra restrictions as far as class composition goes since now the raid comp not only has to account for quickness, alacrity, might and fury but also for boon removal.

Lol at 50% protection. I'm sorry, there is nothing constructive I could add to this idea. It's terrible. Either it's mandatory to have, in which case the comp gets redesigned to fit this requirement (and guess who has the best boon share in the game again? Why would you ask to add something mesmers/chronos are good/best at only to eventually complain about them again), or it's useless and has no effect. Protection is fine as is.

Honestly, it's threads like these that make me wonder if people can look past their own plate and actually think about what consequences their ideas might have (besides the obvious:"I don't like class xyz so it has to get nerfed). Most idea in this thread would create a way more restrictive meta and I think most people will agree that's not the way to go.

You want less mesmers/chronos in raids? Do the same as with druids, make 1 chrono affect 10 people. Oh and while at it, give mesmers a viable dps spec if you decide to remove them as support class.

@Agrippa Oculus.3726 said:After reading all the comments above let me go through the steps again with some of the feedback in mind:

2. Let me elaborate a bit more on this. At the very moment, Chrono is undisputed meta in high-end PvE and has been for a while now. And it's not just because of 1 or 2 niche areas that they're good at, it's because they're the absolute best in multiple areas and very good in even more areas. Enchant removal is one of them. In my opinion, it wouldn't hurt (PvE) balance, if for the mesmer this could be a bit toned down ... they still have many areas left at which they still would rule the playing field! Also, without buffing the Necro this would make them (and the Spellbreaker) more important in at least that area.Nerfing Mind Spike would only be a start! I actually believe even more disenchant skills from the mesmer need a nerf (sorry mesmers, I know, I really have it coming for you ... this while atm I play most on my mesmer (mainly to avoid kicks in Fractals and Raids) :) )!BUT ... I wouldn't mind if they receive buffs as well, but in a complete different area and obviously in moderation (we don't want to give them another top pick area). E.g.: Mind Spike gets a couple of stacks of (the new) Vulnerability on top of it. Or maybe a very short Immobilize. All up for discussion of course!

Cyninja already commented on everything else, but I need to come back to this. Do you even know why chrono is near mandatory in raids and T4 fractals? Because its not the boon strip on Sword auto. That's literally just icing on the cake. Its SoI and Inspiring Distortion. Without SoI chrono would lose a TON of group utility. Without Inspiring distortion, it would lose the ability to distort the group through mechanics. Nerfing mind spike will do absolutely nothing to touch this.

But even if it did, why are you so hellbent on destroying mesmer in the first place? You just admitted you want to remove nearly all of our boon strip, for no reason other than you don't want mesmer to be good at it.

@Agrippa Oculus.3726 said:After reading all the comments above let me go through the steps again with some of the feedback in mind:

1. Regeneration 5 stacks: a lot of people actually agree on this or at least agree on a redo of the boon instead of it having just a stacking duration.Protection: 50% damage reduction might be a bit too much, but instead of capping it to for instance 4 stacks or make it 7% or 8% per stack, I'd like to change step 3 and step 4 to make sure Protection is rarely getting to the 5 stacks point in the first place!

2. Let me elaborate a bit more on this. At the very moment, Chrono is undisputed meta in high-end PvE and has been for a while now. And it's not just because of 1 or 2 niche areas that they're good at, it's because they're the absolute best in multiple areas and very good in even more areas. Enchant removal is one of them. In my opinion, it wouldn't hurt (PvE) balance, if for the mesmer this could be a bit toned down ... they still have many areas left at which they still would rule the playing field! Also, without buffing the Necro this would make them (and the Spellbreaker) more important in at least that area.Nerfing Mind Spike would only be a start! I actually believe even more disenchant skills from the mesmer need a nerf (sorry mesmers, I know, I really have it coming for you ... this while atm I play most on my mesmer (mainly to avoid kicks in Fractals and Raids) :) )!BUT ... I wouldn't mind if they receive buffs as well, but in a complete different area and obviously in moderation (we don't want to give them another top pick area). E.g.: Mind Spike gets a couple of stacks of (the new) Vulnerability on top of it. Or maybe a very short Immobilize. All up for discussion of course!

3. Ok, if I read most of the comments it's probably not the best idea to jump right in and give every single boss in Raids and Fractals 5 stacks of both Regen and Prot and to also let them maintain that fiercely.First of all, how many bosses: I'd say a lot, but not all (we want to keep some different flavors): 70% or 80% of them!Furthermore, on maintaining the boons: what about a mechanic where the boss starts with one stack of each and increments them slowly over time (every 5 seconds or so) until they hit 5 stacks, and will then automatically break down their stacks, until they hit 0, and the process will start over again. In this case you can still choose to not take boon-hate, but you will be a lot less effective, but what I like the most about it, is that you can time your burst damage better (moving away from static rotations, etc.).

4. Same principle, but a bit more strict, definitely make it impossible for anyone to get to 5 stacks of protection on your own, you need at least 2 or rather even 3 players, in order to get 5 stacks ... Also make a lot of prot sources shorter in duration!I think Regen application would be ok as it is right now (but needs to be thoroughly tested of course).

A necro can remove boons just as well. Dont hit the class that have boon removal, giv boon removal to other classes. If i had to least the reasons chrono is up there boon removal would be dead last.

@OriOri.8724 said:

@"Agrippa Oculus.3726" said:After reading all the comments above let me go through the steps again with some of the feedback in mind:

2.

Let me elaborate a bit more on this. At the very moment, Chrono is undisputed meta in high-end PvE and has been for a while now. And it's not

just

because of 1 or 2 niche areas that they're good at, it's because they're

the absolute best

in multiple areas and

very good

in even more areas. Enchant removal is one of them. In my opinion, it wouldn't hurt (PvE) balance, if for the mesmer this could be a bit toned down ... they still have many areas left at which they still would rule the playing field! Also, without buffing the Necro this would make them (and the Spellbreaker) more important in at least that area.Nerfing Mind Spike would only be a start! I actually believe even more disenchant skills from the mesmer need a nerf (sorry mesmers, I know, I really have it coming for you ... this while atm I play most on my mesmer (mainly to avoid kicks in Fractals and Raids) :) )!BUT ... I wouldn't mind if they receive buffs as well, but in a complete different area and obviously in moderation (we don't want to give them

another

top pick area). E.g.: Mind Spike gets a couple of stacks of (the new) Vulnerability on top of it. Or maybe a

very

short Immobilize. All up for discussion of course!

Normally I wouldn't respond to posts like these that only has an intention to be negative. These kind of posts are not there to state an opinion or give constructive feedback, they just want to pick a fight. But in this/your case ... you ask me a question, so let me just answer that:Maybe .... if you really read my posts you could've told already that I'm NOT "hellbent on destroying the mesmer". Don't you think it's kinda contradictory, that I only take the "icing on the cake" as you so eloquently put it, and want to destroy the mesmer with that??? That doesn't make any sense!!! Oh wait, you've already explained that! So actually you answered your own question already!Anywho, just to repeat myself (and give this thread a bump: thanks for that): I do not want to destroy the mesmer (hack, I play it myself the most right now), I want to tone it down just a little bit (as mentioned before, even in my OP ...).