Raid really made me feel sick and tired to GW2, seriously... — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Raid really made me feel sick and tired to GW2, seriously...

Before I came to GW and GW2, I played WOW for 6 years until Death Wing patch.
For long, long, and long raids, raids, and raids like work every week, I feel tired, so I quit from WOW then find other games without content attract me to punch in to a raid mode.
Then I found GW2, it really fun and has good content and no raid anymore. But 5 ppls pug fight was good, at least I don't need to manage a group or join some group fixed.
Also, living world is a good design, it made this game much fun.

After raid up from HOT patch, all the world changed.
I know most problem is belong to me: I am really easy to be attracted by filling achievement point , by raid, and by the F..king achievement in raid.
So I manage my own team from VG to Deimos. In these years, some ppls leaved and news joined. It's fine, but when challenge mode up, raid made me feel tired, even tired to this game.
Again, I know it must be I am sick but not this game, but the filling about I want to get the CM mode clean achievement really hard.
Sometimes, I hope ANET didn't design challenge mode or at least no any achievement binding on challenge mode... just like wing 1 and 2, it's good and no pressure for play.
That is, since wing 4, raid became boring and pain, just about I want to have title and AP. I costed lots of time on CM mode with PUGs but my team has not enough ability to do it.
Now, wing 5 has CM again, and the boss fight more complex then wing 4, I really don't know what the fun element about raid will keep attracted me...
Maybe the last thing to me is my responsibility to my team mate, other 9 ppls believe me.

Again, and again, I know it's my own problem, maybe some psychological problems to "play" a game but not to "work", but I still have some hope that ANET might stop designing new raid, or at least, stop binding AP to CM or raid title (or even on legendary things).
I really enjoy GW2's pve content, even I almost don't run WvW or PvP(only for AP or event), I know I love GW2, but now the pve mode also made me feel sick...

Maybe I will leave when next raid up (Wing 6?).
Thank you all if you read all article, it's just some complains and apology for my bad Eng writing.

Comments

  • meeflak.9714meeflak.9714 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 6, 2017

    It's your own problem, you admit to this yet post a thread complaining about raids...

    You admit it's not a raids problem, but here you are complaining anyway....don't blame the raids man...don't say raids are making you sick of gw. If you don't like it, then don't play it, if you feel like your burning yourself out, then take a break, but don't blame the content.

    This forum space is filled with people who make irrelevant complaint about raids, and arenanets hard work simply based off their own problems.it's really exausting.

    You enjoy the content or you don't and if you don't, then don't play it. If you're coming here to provide constructive criticism then please do, but blaming raids like this, is not constructive, it doesn't add any value to discussion =/

    Main ranger: Adalyn Del Rayna. Plz stop saying raids are toxic.. raids are what you make them

  • thrag.9740thrag.9740 Member ✭✭✭

    Alright so first off, everyone reading this thread needs to understand something. This is not just a low ap noob whining about raids. I checked the leader boards and found Clisna here: (https://leaderboards.guildwars2.com/en/na/achievements?page=8). 33.4k ap.

    With that said, you still have 3.4k ap available to earn (compared to the #1 rank), and raids should only be accounting for about 100 Ap of that. So there are still 3.3k ap. I think you need to ask yourself a question, realistically are you ever going to max ap? If the answer is no, why not focus on those 3.3k points instead of the 100 from raiding? If the answer is yes, here is what I would say. Anyone with enough time to max ap, has enough time to grind gold and buy the cm kills.

    There is no shame in buying or selling kills, guild wars has a long history of players selling their personal services stretching back to the original game. In fact, on your road to max ap, you have probably already purchased many goods and services from other players. Any time you buy an item off the tp for example. Tipping players for ports to jumping puzzles, or any other of a number of services.

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Clisna.3041 said:
    Before I came to GW and GW2, I played WOW for 6 years until Death Wing patch.
    For long, long, and long raids, raids, and raids like work every week, I feel tired, so I quit from WOW then find other games without content attract me to punch in to a raid mode.
    Then I found GW2, it really fun and has good content and no raid anymore. But 5 ppls pug fight was good, at least I don't need to manage a group or join some group fixed.
    Also, living world is a good design, it made this game much fun.

    After raid up from HOT patch, all the world changed.
    I know most problem is belong to me: I am really easy to be attracted by filling achievement point , by raid, and by the F..king achievement in raid.
    So I manage my own team from VG to Deimos. In these years, some ppls leaved and news joined. It's fine, but when challenge mode up, raid made me feel tired, even tired to this game.
    Again, I know it must be I am sick but not this game, but the filling about I want to get the CM mode clean achievement really hard.
    Sometimes, I hope ANET didn't design challenge mode or at least no any achievement binding on challenge mode... just like wing 1 and 2, it's good and no pressure for play.
    That is, since wing 4, raid became boring and pain, just about I want to have title and AP. I costed lots of time on CM mode with PUGs but my team has not enough ability to do it.
    Now, wing 5 has CM again, and the boss fight more complex then wing 4, I really don't know what the fun element about raid will keep attracted me...
    Maybe the last thing to me is my responsibility to my team mate, other 9 ppls believe me.

    Again, and again, I know it's my own problem, maybe some psychological problems to "play" a game but not to "work", but I still have some hope that ANET might stop designing new raid, or at least, stop binding AP to CM or raid title (or even on legendary things).
    I really enjoy GW2's pve content, even I almost don't run WvW or PvP(only for AP or event), I know I love GW2, but now the pve mode also made me feel sick...

    Maybe I will leave when next raid up (Wing 6?).
    Thank you all if you read all article, it's just some complains and apology for my bad Eng writing.

    Not Anets issue you come from a background of heavy raiding. Raids here are new and ppl are enjoying them.

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 7, 2017

    @thrag.9740 said:
    Alright so first off, everyone reading this thread needs to understand something. This is not just a low ap noob whining about raids. I checked the leader boards and found Clisna here: (https://leaderboards.guildwars2.com/en/na/achievements?page=8). 33.4k ap.

    With that said, you still have 3.4k ap available to earn (compared to the #1 rank), and raids should only be accounting for about 100 Ap of that. So there are still 3.3k ap. I think you need to ask yourself a question, realistically are you ever going to max ap? If the answer is no, why not focus on those 3.3k points instead of the 100 from raiding? If the answer is yes, here is what I would say. Anyone with enough time to max ap, has enough time to grind gold and buy the cm kills.

    There is no shame in buying or selling kills, guild wars has a long history of players selling their personal services stretching back to the original game. In fact, on your road to max ap, you have probably already purchased many goods and services from other players. Any time you buy an item off the tp for example. Tipping players for ports to jumping puzzles, or any other of a number of services.

    It depends where the person is missing AP from, if the 3.3k is from historical achievements then they will never be able to attain those points and so have to get AP from anywhere they can. Considering expansions and LS seasons have been granting less since season 1 it can be understandable if people feel the need to hoover up all the AP they can.

    Not arguing for or against his situation just saying that if you missed LS1 you are essentially completely locked out of a very large chunk of AP and even more from historical AP which is no longer available.

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    Let's see. FOR SCIENCE!
    Season 4
    Daybreak:130

    Season 3
    One path ends: 123
    Flashpoint: 125
    The Head of the Snake: 97
    A Crack in the Ice: 83
    Rising Flames: 147
    Out of the Shadows: 73
    Total: 648, Average: 108 (6)
    Duration: July 2016 - July 2017 (12)
    ~54 / month

    Season 2
    Point of No Return: 85
    Seeds of Truth: 80
    Tangled Path: 50
    Echoes of the Past: 75
    The Dragon's Reach, Part 2: 105
    The Dragon's Reach, Part 1: 65
    Entanglement: 50
    Gates of Maguuma: 38
    Total: 548, Average: 68.5 (8)
    Duration: July 2014 - January 2015 (7)
    ~78 / month

    Season 1
    Battle for Lion's Arch: 102
    Escape from Lion's Arch: 109
    Edge of the Mists: 40
    The Origins of Madness: 135
    Fractured: 95
    The Nightmares Within: 68
    The Tower of Nightmares: 76
    Twilight Assault: 25
    Clockwork Chaos: 195
    Queen Jennah's Jubilee: 174
    Bazaar of the Four Winds: 255
    Sky Pirates: 197
    Dragon Bash: 195
    Secret of Southsun: 135
    Flame and Frost: 147
    Total: 1948, Average: 130 (15)
    Duration: January 2013 - March 2014 (14)
    ~139 / month

    Note: some achievements were combined, for example the Flame and Frost contains achievements from all releases.

    It appears that Season 1 had double the amount of achievements than Season 2 and Season 3 even less.

    I do agree they might be better off buying the CMs but some people don’t like that, it feels dishonest.

  • Murdock.6547Murdock.6547 Member ✭✭✭

    I really hope the devs stop being so soft tbh.
    These raids are pretty tame.

  • wait GW2 has raids?? I dont have 100+Li or experience.....so yes GW2 has no raids unless you do them religiously from their inception.

  • Razor.6392Razor.6392 Member ✭✭✭✭

    ...all is vain?

    Never said I'm the best, but I believe I'm better than you.

  • Cynz.9437Cynz.9437 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 7, 2017

    I can kind of understand OP. Raids are stressful. Having group that is always there to run it is nearly impossible, there is always someone at work, sick, cat died on keyboard and what not. Pugging is even worse. Raiding for me became more work than carrying inexperienced players in pvp, tbh. And it is not like fighting same AI that has same mechanics over and over and over really that fun after a while. But many of us also have this need to have everything: oh there is new shiney? MUST HAVE! So we sit till 5-6 am every day trying to get that shiney.

    All i can suggest to OP, take different view on it. It is just pixels that mean nothing. In few years GW2 will be shut down eventually and we all will move on to something new. Playing game is much more fun when you remember that.

    GW is P2Win. We are always lied to.

  • Tyson.5160Tyson.5160 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Freedom guys, if the guy wants to blame raids, let em blame raids. It’s not going to stop the posting anyways. Fighting a battle that can’t be won. Welcome to the internet...

  • Daniel.5428Daniel.5428 Member ✭✭✭

    @Cynz.9437 said:
    I can kind of understand OP. Raids are stressful. Having group that is always there to run it is nearly impossible, there is always someone at work, sick, cat died on keyboard and what not. Pugging is even worse. Raiding for me became more work than carrying inexperienced players in pvp, tbh. And it is not like fighting same AI that has same mechanics over and over and over really that fun after a while. But many of us also have this need to have everything: oh there is new shiney? MUST HAVE! So we sit till 5-6 am every day trying to get that shiney.

    All i can suggest to OP, take different view on it. It is just pixels that mean nothing. In few years GW2 will be shut down eventually and we all will move on to something new. Playing game is much more fun when you remember that.

    LFG is pretty cool if you want to allow time for it. I work 8 hours a day + 2 hours gym it means I have around 2-3 hours of gaming per night. I have 256 LI, legendary armor and already did Desmina, river of souls, statues + some tries on Dhuum. How? Easy! Everyday I log in, I pick my day loggin reward and then I jump in LA Aerodrome. I ignore my dailies, I ignore daily fractals , even home instance, I ignore everything else. I just focus on raids until I kill the needed bosses. I've heard enough of people crying about not having time to raid but they were spending 2 hours daily in fractals, W3 and PvP. If you want to be good at something, just focus on it. I never had a static guild and I was never part of a raiding group. Everything I've done, I did on LFG, with pugs.

  • Turin.6921Turin.6921 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 7, 2017

    @Stormcrow.7513 said:
    wait GW2 has raids?? I dont have 100+Li or experience.....so yes GW2 has no raids unless you do them religiously from their inception.

    Come on...Just join a guild or a training community. They exist in both regions, they are flexible, they curate your improvement. I managed to get better and kill every boss just using the training community in 6 months by doing raids for just 4 hours a week. There are ways to do things even without LI.

  • Kheldorn.5123Kheldorn.5123 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Yo, if AP is your problem here maybe just buy CM clear?

  • Cynz.9437Cynz.9437 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Daniel.5428 said:

    @Cynz.9437 said:
    I can kind of understand OP. Raids are stressful. Having group that is always there to run it is nearly impossible, there is always someone at work, sick, cat died on keyboard and what not. Pugging is even worse. Raiding for me became more work than carrying inexperienced players in pvp, tbh. And it is not like fighting same AI that has same mechanics over and over and over really that fun after a while. But many of us also have this need to have everything: oh there is new shiney? MUST HAVE! So we sit till 5-6 am every day trying to get that shiney.

    All i can suggest to OP, take different view on it. It is just pixels that mean nothing. In few years GW2 will be shut down eventually and we all will move on to something new. Playing game is much more fun when you remember that.

    LFG is pretty cool if you want to allow time for it. I work 8 hours a day + 2 hours gym it means I have around 2-3 hours of gaming per night. I have 256 LI, legendary armor and already did Desmina, river of souls, statues + some tries on Dhuum. How? Easy! Everyday I log in, I pick my day loggin reward and then I jump in LA Aerodrome. I ignore my dailies, I ignore daily fractals , even home instance, I ignore everything else. I just focus on raids until I kill the needed bosses. I've heard enough of people crying about not having time to raid but they were spending 2 hours daily in fractals, W3 and PvP. If you want to be good at something, just focus on it. I never had a static guild and I was never part of a raiding group. Everything I've done, I did on LFG, with pugs.

    Don't want to be mean... but you clearly don't have GF/BF/family. Trust me, your perspective will change, once you do. You won't have 2-3 hours every single day for raids unless you don't value people that are with you.
    What you describe is also not being good, it is just being persistent.

    GW is P2Win. We are always lied to.

  • Henry.5713Henry.5713 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I am sorry for your condition and all but this is basically nothing more than yet another thread to complain about raids and your personal dislike for them.

    Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something. ~ Robert Heinlein

  • Coulter.2315Coulter.2315 Member ✭✭✭

    If you enjoy the rest of PvE just don't raid..

  • miku.3025miku.3025 Member ✭✭

    Clisna I totally can understand where you are coming from. And getting cm done is diff to buying it. Are you in EU? Happy to join ur raiding for wing 5 .. I still need 5mins statue and Dhuum . my hub and me both are above 35k ap. this is my second acc.

  • miku.3025miku.3025 Member ✭✭
    edited December 7, 2017

    @Cynz.9437 said:
    I can kind of understand OP. Raids are stressful. Having group that is always there to run it is nearly impossible, there is always someone at work, sick, cat died on keyboard and what not. Pugging is even worse. Raiding for me became more work than carrying inexperienced players in pvp, tbh. And it is not like fighting same AI that has same mechanics over and over and over really that fun after a while. But many of us also have this need to have everything: oh there is new shiney? MUST HAVE! So we sit till 5-6 am every day trying to get that shiney.

    All i can suggest to OP, take different view on it. It is just pixels that mean nothing. In few years GW2 will be shut down eventually and we all will move on to something new. Playing game is much more fun when you remember that.

    Actually I kinda slow down a bit after the first week of intense raid engagements sacrificing sleep. Progression in new raid is kind of important to be able to keep us up in raid and future clear run. It's important especially for me that I don't hv a static group to play with . I do not hv a static group due to timezone and playtime differences. Anyway.. after the first week.. I realized I probably push myself too much the same as many other players. I get so tired and exhausted and frustrated too.. but come to realising this I am taking things slow now so my body can recover and tht i will enjoy the game the way it should for myself :)
    I hvnt mentioned to the raid designer team. This wing 5 is by far the best wing I hv ever played. May I add one more consideration in future raid design or current fixes to be gentle and friendly to high ping players eg oceanic in EU server.. played with permanent 400 ave ping.. some mechanic hurts a bit.

  • Clisna.3041Clisna.3041 Member ✭✭
    edited December 9, 2017

    First of all, thanks everyone's response :D
    I open my fixed group from wing 1 and til now- wing 5, and now, the original member from wing 1 are 4 (including me and I am leader).
    Most of my team member have their work, their family, even their children, so every week we can spend only one night on it, no more day (since their work or family load).

    From wing 1 to 5, raid became not fun anymore. My team running and farming good every week, in 3.5 hours we can kill about 11-12 bosses, but problem rise up from wing 4.
    Wing 4 really cost most my teammate's patient and passion. Finally, I can't take them to try CM but general farm since this team really "can't" do CM.
    We don't have enough time to try, also, they want to farm more. It easy to understand since if you have only about 3 hours to set all 10 ppls together, farm normal mode better.
    Maybe wing 4 cost most of their passion to challenge new bosses. Even some ppls want CM achievement, this team almost "no way".

    Some of you players may be said: " raid is just a king of learning, learning to do some things", but when we need to cost lot of time to learn it, even move more energy from other time in our true world to learn, the " game" will become not a game like anymore. It become a burden - a burden about you and your friend.
    But we still love PVE content. Most of my raid friend play only PVE rather than pvp or wvw, just like everyone have different enjoyment ways and choices.

    For me, I play GW2 from openbeta, and I really missing LW1. Why ANET can't focus on more world meta event or world bosses but more and more raid????
    Just my open post said: the reason I came here and leave WOW is I love PVE world but I am tired to Raid.
    After WOW start join some elements from GW2 (like living world event) and GW2 start raid , they are almost no different to me. Oh , maybe wvw and pvp content even worse than WOW.
    I know I always have choices to what I can do (or play), but when I want to enjoy PVE content totally, it's really hard to ignore raid if it is there.
    Some of you looking to my APs will notice; I have only few on PVP and WVW, since that's my choice. I get 90% PVE APs in fact.
    Oh by the way, selling raid also made me remember WOW, it's almost the same: you can buy everything only if you are rich.
    If GW2 almost no difference with WOW, why I don't back to there? I cost 6 years there also.

    So I make this post to share my feeling : I love GW2, and I really love PVE and story, but I hate raid. And, I hate games made me choose ignoring some contents but it hardly binding on story and good things.
    I know it's no use to change ANET's design stretagy by posting somethings, so what I can do is leave here somedays when I have to cost more time to my real world.
    (Yes, I have no GF and I am only a loser, at least I work 8 hours a day and exercise 1 hour a day.)

  • @Clisna.3041 said:
    First of all, thanks everyone's response :D
    I open my fixed group from wing 1 and til now- wing 5, and now, the original member from wing 1 are 4 (including me and I am leader).
    Most of my team member have their work, their family, even their children, so every week we can spend only one night on it, no more day (since their work or family load).

    From wing 1 to 5, raid became not fun anymore. My team running and farming good every week, in 3.5 hours we can kill about 11-12 bosses, but problem rise up from wing 4.
    Wing 4 really cost most my teammate's patient and passion. Finally, I can't take them to try CM but general farm since this team really "can't" do CM.
    We don't have enough time to try, also, they want to farm more. It easy to understand since if you have only about 3 hours to set all 10 ppls together, farm normal mode better.
    Maybe wing 4 cost most of their passion to challenge new bosses. Even some ppls want CM achievement, this team almost "no way".

    Some of you players may be said: " raid is just a king of learning, learning to do some things", but when we need to cost lot of time to learn it, even move more energy from other time in our true world to learn, the " game" will become not a game like anymore. It become a burden - a burden about you and your friend.
    But we still love PVE content. Most of my raid friend play only PVE rather than pvp or wvw, just like everyone have different enjoyment ways and choices.

    For me, I play GW2 from openbeta, and I really missing LW1. Why ANET can't focus on more world meta event or world bosses but more and more raid????
    Just my open post said: the reason I came here and leave WOW is I love PVE world but I am tired to Raid.
    After WOW start join some elements from GW2 (like living world event) and GW2 start raid , they are almost no different to me. Oh , maybe wvw and pvp content even worse than WOW.
    I know I always have choices to what I can do (or play), but when I want to enjoy PVE content totally, it's really hard to ignore raid if it is there.
    Some of you looking to my APs will notice; I have only few on PVP and WVW, since that's my choice. I get 90% PVE APs in fact.
    Oh by the way, selling raid also made me remember WOW, it's almost the same: you can buy everything only if you are rich.
    If GW2 almost no difference with WOW, why I don't back to there? I cost 6 years there also.

    So I make this post to share my feeling : I love GW2, and I really love PVE and story, but I hate raid. And, I hate games made me choose ignoring some contents but it hardly binding on story and good things.
    I know it's no use to change ANET's design stretagy by posting somethings, so what I can do is leave here somedays when I have to cost more time to my real world.
    (Yes, I have no GF and I am only a loser, at least I work 8 hours a day and exercise 1 hour a day.)

    There was 10 months between wing 4 and wing 5 and in that time anet released a bunch of open world maps and content. While I miss LS1 myself and you can argue that the maps they released don’t have any metas, saying that they only focus on “more and more raid” is simply false.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Clisna.3041 said:
    For me, I play GW2 from openbeta, and I really missing LW1. Why ANET can't focus on more world meta event or world bosses but more and more raid????

    Sigh, you say you miss LS1 but the first year of LS1 was packed with instanced content and no world bosses or meta events at all.
    The latter half of LS1 contained both meta events and instanced content, in a mix.
    Tequatl Rising, Twisted Marionette, Triple Trouble, Battle for Lion's Arch, Scarlet's Hologram were all the meta boss events during LS1, with the exception of Tequatl, they all happened in the last 3 months of LS1, out of 19 months of the total duration.
    Just because you forgot about it, doesn't mean LS1 had a "focus" on world meta events, that focus was only in the last few months.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Clisna.3041 said:
    For me, I play GW2 from openbeta, and I really missing LW1. Why ANET can't focus on more world meta event or world bosses but more and more raid????

    Sigh, you say you miss LS1 but the first year of LS1 was packed with instanced content and no world bosses or meta events at all.
    The latter half of LS1 contained both meta events and instanced content, in a mix.
    Tequatl Rising, Twisted Marionette, Triple Trouble, Battle for Lion's Arch, Scarlet's Hologram were all the meta boss events during LS1, with the exception of Tequatl, they all happened in the last 3 months of LS1, out of 19 months of the total duration.
    Just because you forgot about it, doesn't mean LS1 had a "focus" on world meta events, that focus was only in the last few months.

    This.

    People enjoy saying a lot of stuff like:

    • the focus is on raids and fractals when it should be on open world
    • LWS1 was way better than the rest (from a design and health perspective for the game)
    • dungeons had no meta
    • the game caters more and more to hardcore players
    • raids are to challenging
    • etc.

    None of those statements are true.

    • if compared side by side, the focus of GW2 even during HoT was and always has been with a very VERY huge majority open world, solo content and story
    • LWS1 was great, it was epic, it was mostly fun and it was an absolutely terrible design decision. Temporary content of this magnitude which is lost for ever is just doable (not with the amount of resources available)
    • dungeons had a very clear meta and the same people complaining now about meta where the ones screaming about how arenanet should fix zerker meta
    • over 90% of GW2 content is super casual and the releases for instanced challenging content are far and wide. Every single story instance does not scale, even if one should run into an issue of severe disability to deal with something, take a 2nd person along in this MMO and you will breeze through the content
    • raids are compared to other MMOs and their raids barely worth mentioning challenge wise. The major difference people are having a hard time with is personal accountability meaning you can't just brain dead follow your tank heal carries but actually need to provide some minimal amount of player activity
  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Clisna.3041 said:
    For me, I play GW2 from openbeta, and I really missing LW1. Why ANET can't focus on more world meta event or world bosses but more and more raid????

    Sigh, you say you miss LS1 but the first year of LS1 was packed with instanced content and no world bosses or meta events at all.
    The latter half of LS1 contained both meta events and instanced content, in a mix.
    Tequatl Rising, Twisted Marionette, Triple Trouble, Battle for Lion's Arch, Scarlet's Hologram were all the meta boss events during LS1, with the exception of Tequatl, they all happened in the last 3 months of LS1, out of 19 months of the total duration.
    Just because you forgot about it, doesn't mean LS1 had a "focus" on world meta events, that focus was only in the last few months.

    This.

    People enjoy saying a lot of stuff like:

    • the focus is on raids and fractals when it should be on open world
    • LWS1 was way better than the rest (from a design and health perspective for the game)
    • dungeons had no meta
    • the game caters more and more to hardcore players
    • raids are to challenging
    • etc.

    None of those statements are true.

    • if compared side by side, the focus of GW2 even during HoT was and always has been with a very VERY huge majority open world, solo content and story
    • LWS1 was great, it was epic, it was mostly fun and it was an absolutely terrible design decision. Temporary content of this magnitude which is lost for ever is just doable (not with the amount of resources available)
    • dungeons had a very clear meta and the same people complaining now about meta where the ones screaming about how arenanet should fix zerker meta
    • over 90% of GW2 content is super casual and the releases for instanced challenging content are far and wide. Every single story instance does not scale, even if one should run into an issue of severe disability to deal with something, take a 2nd person along in this MMO and you will breeze through the content
    • raids are compared to other MMOs and their raids barely worth mentioning challenge wise. The major difference people are having a hard time with is personal accountability meaning you can't just brain dead follow your tank heal carries but actually need to provide some minimal amount of player activity

    Well to be fair sure dungeons had a meta but anyone could complete dungeons 5 bear bow rangers could clear any dungeon with enough time.
    That is not true for raids.

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Clisna.3041 said:
    Maybe I will leave when next raid up (Wing 6?).

    Why Wait?

    There are two kinds of Gamers, Salty, and Extra Salty.
    Ego is the Anesthesia that dullens the pain of Stupidity.

  • Shard.4791Shard.4791 Member ✭✭✭

    Ap grinders are hardcore players. If you can dedicate thousands of hours to grinding ap you can learn and pug a couple bosses.

    Seems like your raid friends prefer to farm LI. If your goals don't align you need to rely on other groups.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Clisna.3041 said:
    For me, I play GW2 from openbeta, and I really missing LW1. Why ANET can't focus on more world meta event or world bosses but more and more raid????

    Sigh, you say you miss LS1 but the first year of LS1 was packed with instanced content and no world bosses or meta events at all.
    The latter half of LS1 contained both meta events and instanced content, in a mix.
    Tequatl Rising, Twisted Marionette, Triple Trouble, Battle for Lion's Arch, Scarlet's Hologram were all the meta boss events during LS1, with the exception of Tequatl, they all happened in the last 3 months of LS1, out of 19 months of the total duration.
    Just because you forgot about it, doesn't mean LS1 had a "focus" on world meta events, that focus was only in the last few months.

    This.

    People enjoy saying a lot of stuff like:

    • the focus is on raids and fractals when it should be on open world
    • LWS1 was way better than the rest (from a design and health perspective for the game)
    • dungeons had no meta
    • the game caters more and more to hardcore players
    • raids are to challenging
    • etc.

    None of those statements are true.

    • if compared side by side, the focus of GW2 even during HoT was and always has been with a very VERY huge majority open world, solo content and story
    • LWS1 was great, it was epic, it was mostly fun and it was an absolutely terrible design decision. Temporary content of this magnitude which is lost for ever is just doable (not with the amount of resources available)
    • dungeons had a very clear meta and the same people complaining now about meta where the ones screaming about how arenanet should fix zerker meta
    • over 90% of GW2 content is super casual and the releases for instanced challenging content are far and wide. Every single story instance does not scale, even if one should run into an issue of severe disability to deal with something, take a 2nd person along in this MMO and you will breeze through the content
    • raids are compared to other MMOs and their raids barely worth mentioning challenge wise. The major difference people are having a hard time with is personal accountability meaning you can't just brain dead follow your tank heal carries but actually need to provide some minimal amount of player activity

    Well to be fair sure dungeons had a meta but anyone could complete dungeons 5 bear bow rangers could clear any dungeon with enough time.
    That is not true for raids.

    Sure it is, you can complete raids with non meta builds just fine. They are overall more difficult, true. Doesn't change that both dungeons and raids had metas which could be ignored. My dungeon argument was based on people talking about dungeons as though they had no meta, when they clearly did and some players were asking for said meta.

  • FrizzFreston.5290FrizzFreston.5290 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Clisna.3041 said:
    For me, I play GW2 from openbeta, and I really missing LW1. Why ANET can't focus on more world meta event or world bosses but more and more raid????

    Sigh, you say you miss LS1 but the first year of LS1 was packed with instanced content and no world bosses or meta events at all.
    The latter half of LS1 contained both meta events and instanced content, in a mix.
    Tequatl Rising, Twisted Marionette, Triple Trouble, Battle for Lion's Arch, Scarlet's Hologram were all the meta boss events during LS1, with the exception of Tequatl, they all happened in the last 3 months of LS1, out of 19 months of the total duration.
    Just because you forgot about it, doesn't mean LS1 had a "focus" on world meta events, that focus was only in the last few months.

    This.

    People enjoy saying a lot of stuff like:

    • the focus is on raids and fractals when it should be on open world
    • LWS1 was way better than the rest (from a design and health perspective for the game)
    • dungeons had no meta
    • the game caters more and more to hardcore players
    • raids are to challenging
    • etc.

    None of those statements are true.

    • if compared side by side, the focus of GW2 even during HoT was and always has been with a very VERY huge majority open world, solo content and story
    • LWS1 was great, it was epic, it was mostly fun and it was an absolutely terrible design decision. Temporary content of this magnitude which is lost for ever is just doable (not with the amount of resources available)
    • dungeons had a very clear meta and the same people complaining now about meta where the ones screaming about how arenanet should fix zerker meta
    • over 90% of GW2 content is super casual and the releases for instanced challenging content are far and wide. Every single story instance does not scale, even if one should run into an issue of severe disability to deal with something, take a 2nd person along in this MMO and you will breeze through the content
    • raids are compared to other MMOs and their raids barely worth mentioning challenge wise. The major difference people are having a hard time with is personal accountability meaning you can't just brain dead follow your tank heal carries but actually need to provide some minimal amount of player activity

    Well to be fair sure dungeons had a meta but anyone could complete dungeons 5 bear bow rangers could clear any dungeon with enough time.
    That is not true for raids.

    Sure it is, you can complete raids with non meta builds just fine. They are overall more difficult, true. Doesn't change that both dungeons and raids had metas which could be ignored. My dungeon argument was based on people talking about dungeons as though they had no meta, when they clearly did and some players were asking for said meta.

    All metas can be ignored really. They are purely the mainstream builds. Even open world has a meta of sorts. Whether content has a meta doesnt say anything about the content, nor is it a good way to compare content.

    What is different is the reliance on said meta, The harder the content, the more people stick to a meta. Sticking to what works. As content ages people feel more competent to broaden the meta from just a druid to druid or other healer builds. In raids people tend to be more meta bound probably because they dont feel confident in their own skill or some non meta builds capabilities. They only know what works from those top guilds and have less of a clue about anything that isnt meta or what kind of PUG or teammate they are bringing into the team.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    Sure it is, you can complete raids with non meta builds just fine. They are overall more difficult, true. Doesn't change that both dungeons and raids had metas which could be ignored.

    Ah, but the difference is exactly in how widespread that meta was and how easily it was ignored. Most of the people running dungeons weren't really following any meta (many didn't even know what that "meta" thing was). And it made no practical difference. In dungeons, you ignored the meta at your convenience.
    In raids, you ignore it at your peril. And if you don't know about the meta, someone will remind you.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Neutra.6857Neutra.6857 Member ✭✭✭

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    Sure it is, you can complete raids with non meta builds just fine. They are overall more difficult, true. Doesn't change that both dungeons and raids had metas which could be ignored.

    Ah, but the difference is exactly in how widespread that meta was and how easily it was ignored. Most of the people running dungeons weren't really following any meta (many didn't even know what that "meta" thing was). And it made no practical difference. In dungeons, you ignored the meta at your convenience.
    In raids, you ignore it at your peril. And if you don't know about the meta, someone will remind you.

    I main a ranger, do you know how hard it was to find a group with a ranger main? Oh and ...Berserker was meta, everyone was looking for berserker and only beserker.

  • Miellyn.6847Miellyn.6847 Member ✭✭✭

    @Neutra.6857 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    Sure it is, you can complete raids with non meta builds just fine. They are overall more difficult, true. Doesn't change that both dungeons and raids had metas which could be ignored.

    Ah, but the difference is exactly in how widespread that meta was and how easily it was ignored. Most of the people running dungeons weren't really following any meta (many didn't even know what that "meta" thing was). And it made no practical difference. In dungeons, you ignored the meta at your convenience.
    In raids, you ignore it at your peril. And if you don't know about the meta, someone will remind you.

    I main a ranger, do you know how hard it was to find a group with a ranger main? Oh and ...Berserker was meta, everyone was looking for berserker and only beserker.

    It was actually pretty easy to find a group once people realized how strong spirits are.

  • Torolan.5816Torolan.5816 Member ✭✭✭

    @Shard.4791 said:
    Ap grinders are hardcore players. If you can dedicate thousands of hours to grinding ap you can learn and pug a couple bosses.

    Seems like your raid friends prefer to farm LI. If your goals don't align you need to rely on other groups.

    Yes and no.

    No:
    *I have close to 26K AP. Still I finished some of the ascended weapons collection of HoT only a few weeks ago because I had time at hand and a period where I hated myself just enough to complete a HoT map on 4 additional characters.
    *Before the rise of HoT, you would have never caught me even thinking about the giant slayer APs. Making forged and awakened slayer is basically doing it if you just play the game, my alltime favorite APs to be honest.
    *Malediktus has 36K AP. This means that he has finished tasks I would not touch with a 10 foot pole because of their tedious and time consuming nature.

    Yes:
    The dedication and probably the skill for the game would be there.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 12, 2017

    @Neutra.6857 said:
    I main a ranger, do you know how hard it was to find a group with a ranger main?

    Yeah, i know. I was running bunker guard and bearbow ranger then (neither in zerks). There was no real difference between those two, the groups filled really fast. Even in the times before LFG. You just had to advertise as casual run. Notice how the ranger build i was using then was probably one of the most reviled and ridiculed builds in the game. And it made no difference.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

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