PvP Discussion: Maps — Guild Wars 2 Forums

PvP Discussion: Maps

This thread is where you can discuss any map specific feedback. Don’t like a map? Tell us why and how you would make it better. (Removing the map altogether is not constructive feedback.) Really like a map? That feedback is helpful as well, as it can inform us of things we could do for future maps. We have internal numbers that generally show what players prefer, but getting additional feedback is useful.

In addition to feedback on current maps, we thought you’d like to know what’s currently in production.

Asura Arena: This is a new 2v2 map. We plan to release it around the time we have our first 2v2 tournament.

Unamed 2v2: We have a third 2v2 map fairly far along.

Unamed conquest: We’re in the early phases of developing a new Conquest map. Most of the map art is done. We’re getting it set up and then evaluating secondary mechanics.

Battle of Champion’s Dusk: We are planning a fairly big revision of this map in the distant future in an effort to improve the Stronghold experience. Since we haven’t started yet, this would be a good opportunity for players to provide feedback in. One of our main concerns is that the current optimum strategy on this map is for teams to actively ignore each other.

Ben Phongluangtham
Game Designer

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Comments

  • Ario.8964Ario.8964 Member ✭✭✭

    Woah, awesome things on the way!
    As far as the current maps go, I'd personally like to see all the point sizes increase to about the size of foefire's mid point to allow conquest to be a little more about positioning yourself to either disrupt the other team the longest or hold your point the longest. I'd also like to see less "pve" save/snowball mechanics in matches. Things like forest and foefire's mechanics aren't often used in high level play which is disappointing and they way they are used is simple and really has no place in pvp imo. Is there a possibility of either straight up removing them or redesigning them to encourage player participation on both sides similar to the buffs on temple?

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  • hestiansun.1425hestiansun.1425 Member ✭✭

    Simplicity to me is better when trying to engage in the PVP skills of players. I suspect your numbers will show that the Eternal Coliseum is more popular as a selection than Skyhammer.
    As players, I don't think we want more unique gimmicks - we want fairly simple and straightforward maps that allow us to fight against our enemies. At least, that's what I want, and from the sense that I get reading these forums and reddit, is probably what many others want.
    And you are correct, Battle of Champion's Dusk does seem to favor enlisting minions and attacking the Lord directly. Perhaps a way to improve this would be to not making the map as serpentine, and make it wider open, that way players will actually encounter each other.
    Perhaps borrow some of what seems to work in a WVW mode and have players need to push in one direction or another - if one team can make the battle line be towards the other team's lord, then that lord can be attacked. Otherwise, yeah, you're just going to have each time snake through its side in a lot of cases.

  • AlexPort.9204AlexPort.9204 Member ✭✭

    any news of changing spirit watch or bring it into ranked?

  • Salvo.8290Salvo.8290 Member ✭✭

    For the new conquest map please invite feedback on your ideas of mechanics. I just keep thinking about skyhammer and one shot stealth pulls/pushes. When you are in alpha/beta testing invite some pvp streamers/good players to evaluate it on stream since you chose not to have a public test server.

  • Morwath.9817Morwath.9817 Member ✭✭✭

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

    Battle of Champion’s Dusk: We are planning a fairly big revision of this map in the distant future in an effort to improve the Stronghold experience. Since we haven’t started yet, this would be a good opportunity for players to provide feedback in. One of our main concerns is that the current optimum strategy on this map is for teams to actively ignore each other.

    As Quaggan said in Game Mode thread (Quaggan guesses, this thread is fit more discussion about this particular map, so he will quote himself).

    @Morwath.9817 said:
    In Quaggan opinion Stronghold is in dire need of major changes, like removal of door breakers, destroying gates should be players job, as defending them. Damage dealt to gates shouldn't be as bad as in WvW, players shouldn't have issues with destroying gate when not contested, maybe you could add Flag at the mid, which would give +100% damage to gates while controled, maybe summoned Heroes of the Mist should apply such buff, but game mode should be all about interactions between players, not babysiting NPCs (with exception of Lord). Quaggan would also leave suppiles at mid, so players could use them to repair damaged, but not destroyed gates.

  • Endelon.1042Endelon.1042 Member ✭✭

    Can you elaborate on plans for Stronghold as far as what it will become mode-wise or will it just remain a map for unranked 5v5 play?

  • @AlexPort.9204 said:
    any news of changing spirit watch or bring it into ranked?

    We talk about it from time to time. The big thing I think is bad about Spirit Watch is the orb skills being bad. Additionally, I've been thinking about removing or reducing the speed debuff the orb gives. I'd probably want to do a revision on those and evaluate on unranked before adding it to ranked.

    Ben Phongluangtham
    Game Designer

  • @Endelon.1042 said:
    Can you elaborate on plans for Stronghold as far as what it will become mode-wise or will it just remain a map for unranked 5v5 play?

    It's likely to stay in unranked, for the near future at least. I've always felt it odd to have 2 very different game modes using the same ranking ladder.

    Ben Phongluangtham
    Game Designer

  • corey.6451corey.6451 Member ✭✭

    Add a overwatch style map. Where you have cap the point, and hold it until its reach 100℅.

  • hugo.4705hugo.4705 Member ✭✭

    I would like to see an underground asura complex as a pvp map, in the style of the crucible of eternity for example. Time for innovation, always make basic maps on surface. Why not making more underground ones, and don't know, in space? Like mistlock sanctuary.

    Inquest Lover.

  • Kuya.6495Kuya.6495 Member ✭✭✭

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

    @AlexPort.9204 said:
    any news of changing spirit watch or bring it into ranked?

    We talk about it from time to time. The big thing I think is bad about Spirit Watch is the orb skills being bad. Additionally, I've been thinking about removing or reducing the speed debuff the orb gives. I'd probably want to do a revision on those and evaluate on unranked before adding it to ranked.

    You could just make the orb move by itself.

    First person to channel it causes the orb to produce a point around it for their team. As long as a person from the team who channeled it remains around the orb, the orb automatically moves towards the nearest capture point. The more members of a team who stand near the orb, the faster the orb moves. If the enemy team outnumbers you inside the point, the orb stops moving. After a certain time limit, the orb resets.

  • Ario.8964Ario.8964 Member ✭✭✭

    @Kuya.6495 said:

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

    @AlexPort.9204 said:
    any news of changing spirit watch or bring it into ranked?

    We talk about it from time to time. The big thing I think is bad about Spirit Watch is the orb skills being bad. Additionally, I've been thinking about removing or reducing the speed debuff the orb gives. I'd probably want to do a revision on those and evaluate on unranked before adding it to ranked.

    You could just make the orb move by itself.

    First person to channel it causes the orb to produce a point around it for their team. As long as a person from the team who channeled it remains around the orb, the orb automatically moves towards the nearest capture point. The more members of a team who stand near the orb, the faster the orb moves. If the enemy team outnumbers you inside the point, the orb stops moving. After a certain time limit, the orb resets.

    I know it's a small detail but I'd say if you're doing that type of system have the orb move towards whatever team has more people on the point. If it's equal numbers it won't move and if it's not won in a certain timeframe then nobody gets the bonus points until the next interval (Should be only about 3 of these orb fights per match).

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  • Kuya.6495Kuya.6495 Member ✭✭✭

    @Ario.8964 said:

    @Kuya.6495 said:

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

    @AlexPort.9204 said:
    any news of changing spirit watch or bring it into ranked?

    We talk about it from time to time. The big thing I think is bad about Spirit Watch is the orb skills being bad. Additionally, I've been thinking about removing or reducing the speed debuff the orb gives. I'd probably want to do a revision on those and evaluate on unranked before adding it to ranked.

    You could just make the orb move by itself.

    First person to channel it causes the orb to produce a point around it for their team. As long as a person from the team who channeled it remains around the orb, the orb automatically moves towards the nearest capture point. The more members of a team who stand near the orb, the faster the orb moves. If the enemy team outnumbers you inside the point, the orb stops moving. After a certain time limit, the orb resets.

    I know it's a small detail but I'd say if you're doing that type of system have the orb move towards whatever team has more people on the point. If it's equal numbers it won't move and if it's not won in a certain timeframe then nobody gets the bonus points until the next interval (Should be only about 3 of these orb fights per match).

    I like your suggestion!

    It would be interesting because this would turn the orb into a mobile capture point two teams would have to fight over, which is a dynamic we haven't seen before in pvp.

  • Battle of Champion's Dusk:
    I know its one heck of a painstaking undertaking, but this map would largely benefit from a larger team format. The map feels to big and the combat roles to many for just 5 people. You have supply, treb, hero captures, offence, and defense. It is simply to much to do for 5 people and you can easily get rolled by being in the wrong place at the wrong time. It could easily be the GvG format so many players are looking for if revamped correctly.

  • MakubeC.3026MakubeC.3026 Member ✭✭

    Some mechanic ideas:
    1. A buff that allows the usage of shortcuts to various parts of the map.
    2. A buff that allows contesting and un-contesting of points twice as fast.
    3. A random player awards 10 points if killed and if he kills it awards 10 points. This can happen every 2 minutes or so to a random player of each team and is valid for one kill/death. People affected by this curse re-spawn instantly.
    4. A random ghost/npc appears somewhere in the map. Short channel freezes all map-wide foes for 3 seconds.
    5. Old serenity buff (kills are worth 8 points).
    6. Instant re-spawn
    7. Kill multiplier (1st kill 5, 2nd 10, etc. Within a lapse of time).
    8. Kills are worth 0 points for a set amount of time.
    9. Conquest point reversal (Red becomes blue, blue red).
    10. Random traps appear in map, make you slow, push you back and that kid of stuff.

  • TheGrimm.5624TheGrimm.5624 Member ✭✭✭

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

    Battle of Champion’s Dusk: We are planning a fairly big revision of this map in the distant future in an effort to improve the Stronghold experience. Since we haven’t started yet, this would be a good opportunity for players to provide feedback in. One of our main concerns is that the current optimum strategy on this map is for teams to actively ignore each other.

    Don't have your metrics and/or potential heat maps but haven't seen the avoid tactic since the early days of stronghold. Most of the time now there is usually a split between some attacking and others defending.

    Like the current map in the state its in now to be honest. Wouldn't mind a second map for that game mode and give that a different design and potential new AI pathing. One thing to consider is upping points for player kills and have that varied on where the kill occurred. Something to consider, is a player killed at spawn worth more than a player killed attacking the lords room or one that was defending a lord? I could see that a Stronghold would have a lower average kill rate per game compared to conquest since you have to move about and do some activities to advance to the lord's room. Still think Stronghold is a more dynamic game than conquest since you have to rotate.

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  • Vancho.8750Vancho.8750 Member ✭✭

    I think in many other games 2v2 is kinda unbalanced and the 3v3 is where the things go better. Also without separate que people don't bother with custom maps.

  • nicknamenick.2437nicknamenick.2437 Member ✭✭✭

    New map mechanic idea:
    Normal map like always.. but around 5mins or something 1 player standing on home capturepoint of both teams will get transported to a closed 1v1 battle arena (not to big.. with little hiding stuff)
    -the winner of the match rewards its team like 150-200 points or something..
    -there should be a timer so it doesnt last forever
    -the person standing on close gets teleported
    -if none player is standing on close there will be 1 random person teleported.. so you better get someone close..

    Idea is that we still have the normal gamemode.. but now a duel spec can really do something gamebreaking for its team..

    Just an idea.. there might be some problems ofc.. just something i would like to see..

  • Others have commented on spirit watch's orb mechanic, but for me the biggest issue with this map in a ranked/tournament game is the crazy advantage of having any type of blink/teleport. There is so much vertical space to this map that at a high level gameplay you are at a huge disadvantage if you cannot blink/port.

    Also, at the mid node the camera gets really messed up when you are near the edge but facing towards the center of the map. Similar to old Kylo camera issues on mid.

  • Kraitan.8476Kraitan.8476 Member ✭✭

    Battle of Champion’s Dusk: early feedback: MAKE IT BIGGER. A game mode like that could easily work on a map the size of LA or bigger. It would be way more interesting when you can't see the enemies' every single move every single moment.

  • Scary.8034Scary.8034 Member ✭✭

    I think as far as current maps goes, there are a tons of spots that cause teleport skill to either not work at all, or even worse just put the skill on cooldown/use the skill ressources and not work.

    Famous one would be around the river area around mine on Forest, you can easily find a lot of iconsistency with those type of skills yourself just logging on a thief and going around spamming shortbow five, and I think it's really important to look at those issues.

  • MakubeC.3026MakubeC.3026 Member ✭✭

    @Mireles Lore.5942 said:
    Battle of Champion's Dusk:
    I know its one heck of a painstaking undertaking, but this map would largely benefit from a larger team format. The map feels to big and the combat roles to many for just 5 people. You have supply, treb, hero captures, offence, and defense. It is simply to much to do for 5 people and you can easily get rolled by being in the wrong place at the wrong time. It could easily be the GvG format so many players are looking for if revamped correctly.

    Totally agree on the number of players. 10 vs 10 would spice things up.

  • Xillllix.3485Xillllix.3485 Member ✭✭

    I think the stronghold map is fine and you should make a second map or GvG map instead.

  • Kraitan.8476Kraitan.8476 Member ✭✭

    Why all these 2v2 maps if we can NOT have a 2v2 queue? Any news on that? (just unranked would be great) It's seems just so incredibly counterproductive..

  • Paul.2054Paul.2054 Member ✭✭

    My unique solution to Spirit Watch which might make the map objective more interesting is to simply flip the objective or the spawn to the opposite end of the map so you spawn really far away from the orbs spawn. I believe the fact that the orb is right next to the spawn is the real issue with the orb since it does not allow you to ever take advantage of downtime on the map or sneak the objective as much since it is literally right in the front of all the action. With the way the orb works that basically makes it impossible to cap it even if you get kills which feels really bad overall because most objectives in all games should be possible when you have sufficient lead and setup the moment for it without too much prep. In the case of spirit watch you would have to probly prep a large amount of your team to get an orb in which will never be the winning strategy and thus will never be done.

    Keeping the orb off the main areas of the map similar to tranquility allows for the advantage to first be put onto the team grabbing the orb despite how easy it will still be to stop the player from capping if people move to stop them.

  • Morwath.9817Morwath.9817 Member ✭✭✭

    @Paul.2054 said:
    My unique solution to Spirit Watch which might make the map objective more interesting is to simply flip the objective or the spawn to the opposite end of the map so you spawn really far away from the orbs spawn. I believe the fact that the orb is right next to the spawn is the real issue with the orb since it does not allow you to ever take advantage of downtime on the map or sneak the objective as much since it is literally right in the front of all the action. With the way the orb works that basically makes it impossible to cap it even if you get kills which feels really bad overall because most objectives in all games should be possible when you have sufficient lead and setup the moment for it without too much prep. In the case of spirit watch you would have to probly prep a large amount of your team to get an orb in which will never be the winning strategy and thus will never be done.

    Keeping the orb off the main areas of the map similar to tranquility allows for the advantage to first be put onto the team grabbing the orb despite how easy it will still be to stop the player from capping if people move to stop them.

    Soooo, you would switch Mid with Orb?

  • Auriam.8745Auriam.8745 Member

    @Kraitan.8476 said:
    Why all these 2v2 maps if we can NOT have a 2v2 queue? Any news on that? (just unranked would be great) It's seems just so incredibly counterproductive..

    I went into this thread first seeing the 2v2 support excited that we might get at least an unranked 2v2 queue, and then I move onto the Game Modes thread to see that they say they won't be adding any more queues. Some clarificaton on that would be great, as the thought of 2v2 would bring me back to PvP for sure.

  • Paul.2054Paul.2054 Member ✭✭

    @Morwath.9817 said:

    @Paul.2054 said:
    My unique solution to Spirit Watch which might make the map objective more interesting is to simply flip the objective or the spawn to the opposite end of the map so you spawn really far away from the orbs spawn. I believe the fact that the orb is right next to the spawn is the real issue with the orb since it does not allow you to ever take advantage of downtime on the map or sneak the objective as much since it is literally right in the front of all the action. With the way the orb works that basically makes it impossible to cap it even if you get kills which feels really bad overall because most objectives in all games should be possible when you have sufficient lead and setup the moment for it without too much prep. In the case of spirit watch you would have to probly prep a large amount of your team to get an orb in which will never be the winning strategy and thus will never be done.

    Keeping the orb off the main areas of the map similar to tranquility allows for the advantage to first be put onto the team grabbing the orb despite how easy it will still be to stop the player from capping if people move to stop them.

    Soooo, you would switch Mid with Orb?

    Yes essentially that was the idea except I preferred the idea of flipping the spawn to be right next to mid instead of moving the orb and mid placements. That also deals with having the farthest mid point in the entire game relative to the spawn and gives it a more unique feel with perhaps a spawn point closer to mid than even Skyhammer's is.

  • Kraitan.8476Kraitan.8476 Member ✭✭

    @Auriam.8745 said:

    @Kraitan.8476 said:
    Why all these 2v2 maps if we can NOT have a 2v2 queue? Any news on that? (just unranked would be great) It's seems just so incredibly counterproductive..

    I went into this thread first seeing the 2v2 support excited that we might get at least an unranked 2v2 queue, and then I move onto the Game Modes thread to see that they say they won't be adding any more queues. Some clarificaton on that would be great, as the thought of 2v2 would bring me back to PvP for sure.

    EXACTLY that. You have a small as kitten population so what do you do? A) Create more options for players to be attracted to & engage in pvp or B) Try to fix the game mode that has been killing that same population for over 5 years? Some clarification on this logic would really easy our minds. more modes means more people will be willing to try them out, maybe even like some of them and get drawn into all aspects of pvp from there. Please, bigger maps for both conquest & new modes aswell as a 2v2 unranked queue or at least just a reply with some kind of explanation would make many of us so very very happy..

  • witcher.3197witcher.3197 Member ✭✭✭

    @Vancho.8750 said:
    I think in many other games 2v2 is kinda unbalanced and the 3v3 is where the things go better. Also without separate que people don't bother with custom maps.

    Agreed, would much prefer a 3v3 over 2v2.

    For a 2v2 Anet would have to add a lot of restrictions for bunker teams to not be on top all the time. In a 3v3 there's an option for coordinated spike to bring down even the most tanky comps, so balance becomes less of a concern.

  • @nicknamenick.2437 said:
    New map mechanic idea:
    Normal map like always.. but around 5mins or something 1 player standing on home capturepoint of both teams will get transported to a closed 1v1 battle arena (not to big.. with little hiding stuff)
    -the winner of the match rewards its team like 150-200 points or something..
    -there should be a timer so it doesnt last forever
    -the person standing on close gets teleported
    -if none player is standing on close there will be 1 random person teleported.. so you better get someone close..

    Idea is that we still have the normal gamemode.. but now a duel spec can really do something gamebreaking for its team..

    Just an idea.. there might be some problems ofc.. just something i would like to see..

    THIS, this sounds great

  • huehuehueh.5106huehuehueh.5106 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 6

    Can we get infusions to work in the pvp lobby?

    Can we get more islands in heart of the mists? More surface area to run instead of open air where we can fall to our doom.

    Can we get oakheart essence nodes, lava tubes, bouncy mushrooms, ley line gliding, nuhoch wallows, exalted recall devices, you have updrafts in the pvp lobby but nothing else from the heart of thorns masteries, who wouldnt want to rock climb in heart of the mists, or use a nuhoc wallow to a secret room where two skeletons are playing chess.

    I noticed sometimes on skyhammer when you are at a side node you can not see the skyhammer countdown, is that because it is event based?

    The jump pads on skyhammer seem to be a bit buggy, you can get knocked into them accidentally or they sometimes just plain dont trigger, sometimes an enemy takes it and you knock him back while he is using it and it does nothing. Maybe change them to the jump pads in lions arch where you have to jump on them purposely or make them bouncy mushrooms.

    New players have no idea of jump puzzle locations and no port locations, perhaps you could display these locations graphically with raid icons or colored ground before matches begin as a type of tutorial for the map.

    Maybe the lord on foefire should not be able to be pulled to the bottom of the stairs if he is supposed to be fought on the upper level.

    Can we duel in the lobby?

    Make the arena in the lobby way bigger with objects to line of sight or jump puzzle with.

    Leader of pvp plat guild [QCP] Quality Clarity Perseverance. | Do I Spam A Or B | C M Super Soldier |

  • Skyhammer:

    • Increase the size of the Hammer-platform

    Battle of Kyhlo:

    • Invent a different secondary objective on this map. The trebuchets are underwhelming.

    Legacy of the Foefire:

    • The Lord shouldnt be able to be killed by only 1 person.

    Capricorn:

    • This map feels too open and too large. Maybe the distance between the nodes can be made a little shorter and maybe with less line of sight in between.

    Coliseum:

    • Add a little more kiting spots near all nodes.

    Forest of Niflhel:

    • Good map, I wouldnt know any big adjustments.

    Temple of the Silent Storm:

    • Remove the holes around the stillness buff and make a stairs from that point to the Tranquility buff. This might allow more team-strategic play and swaps on the tranquility buff instead of everlasting 1v1's there.
  • Razor.6392Razor.6392 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 7

    What about adjusting current maps?

    • Legacy: No complaints.
    • Khylo: This is the worst mid node in game IMO. It's just tedious to play in it. Tiny, uneven ground doesn't allow you to easily get there, not open enough. Edit: Forgot about trebuchet. No one uses this anymore lol.
    • Forest: Secondary mechanic in this map is kind of useless. What about a better bonus on kill? Point contribution is fine (25) but the buff itself doesn't do much.
    • Spirit Watch: I feel like the orb mechanic could use more attention. Make it so it spawns like a maximum of 3 or so times, increasing its value.
    • Skyhammer: Would it be crazy to have a bigger platform (same capture node size) for the map objective? What about adding an interact key to the ground jump pads, so * that you don't jump unless you press your interact key?
    • Coliseum: Modifying the artifact ramps in a way that professions with ports cannot gain an unfair advantage. Also, rotating the position of the artifacts (or random) so that sword is sometimes north, sometimes south. Also I would slightly increase the size of the mid node.
    • Capricorn: Increase the terrain size (same capture node size) around bell. The area is very small and confined to move around.

    Never said I'm the best, but I believe I'm better than you.

  • witcher.3197witcher.3197 Member ✭✭✭

    While I think Foefire middle would be an overkill, the standard capture point size on all maps should be increased to what we have on foefire side nodes. Discourages spam but doesn't kill off AoE heavy builds either.

  • Ledavi.1803Ledavi.1803 Member ✭✭

    @HeadCrowned.6834 said:
    Skyhammer:

    • Increase the size of the Hammer-platform

    agree - aoe spam can dominate way too easily here and winning the hammer is now an important game-turner

    Battle of Kyhlo:

    • Invent a different secondary objective on this map. The trebuchets are underwhelming.

    agree but don't have a good suggestion

    Legacy of the Foefire:

    • The Lord shouldnt be able to be killed by only 1 person.

    agree - or should take so long that it would essentially turn match into 4v5

    Capricorn:

    • This map feels too open and too large. Maybe the distance between the nodes can be made a little shorter and maybe with less line of sight in between.

    don't agree with this - as there are professions that can take advantage of the distance and it makes for a different feel than the smaller maps...

  • @Trendy.1694 said:
    I generally like Kyhlo, but would love to see Treb being reworked. Several options:
    1. Treb now have ammunition and [partially] decaps points. Ammunition is neutral item, so teams must both fight for it and shot.
    2. You must bring 3 ammuntions, that spawns pseudo-randomly through course of time. For example, on min 12 - 1 ammo in midle. On min 10 - 2 ammos next to each team. So teams must decide either go for both, get safe one etc. Once you brough all 3 ammuntions, similarly to skyhammer, treb shoots to all points and decap them.

    Treb is something we'd like to revisit at some point. Your idea is interesting.

    Ben Phongluangtham
    Game Designer

  • Ledavi.1803Ledavi.1803 Member ✭✭

    @Trendy.1694 said:
    I generally like Kyhlo, but would love to see Treb being reworked. Several options:
    1. Treb now have ammunition and [partially] decaps points. Ammunition is neutral item, so teams must both fight for it and shot.
    2. You must bring 3 ammuntions, that spawns pseudo-randomly through course of time. For example, on min 12 - 1 ammo in midle. On min 10 - 2 ammos next to each team. So teams must decide either go for both, get safe one etc. Once you brough all 3 ammuntions, similarly to skyhammer, treb shoots to all points and decap them.

    I like the thought - kind of a mix of Temple and Skyhammer. Nice @Trendy.1694

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