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PvP Discussion: Maps


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  • ArenaNet Staff

This thread is where you can discuss any map specific feedback. Don’t like a map? Tell us why and how you would make it better. (Removing the map altogether is not constructive feedback.) Really like a map? That feedback is helpful as well, as it can inform us of things we could do for future maps. We have internal numbers that generally show what players prefer, but getting additional feedback is useful.

In addition to feedback on current maps, we thought you’d like to know what’s currently in production.

Asura Arena: This is a new 2v2 map. We plan to release it around the time we have our first 2v2 tournament.

Unamed 2v2: We have a third 2v2 map fairly far along.

Unamed conquest: We’re in the early phases of developing a new Conquest map. Most of the map art is done. We’re getting it set up and then evaluating secondary mechanics.

Battle of Champion’s Dusk: We are planning a fairly big revision of this map in the distant future in an effort to improve the Stronghold experience. Since we haven’t started yet, this would be a good opportunity for players to provide feedback in. One of our main concerns is that the current optimum strategy on this map is for teams to actively ignore each other.

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Woah, awesome things on the way!As far as the current maps go, I'd personally like to see all the point sizes increase to about the size of foefire's mid point to allow conquest to be a little more about positioning yourself to either disrupt the other team the longest or hold your point the longest. I'd also like to see less "pve" save/snowball mechanics in matches. Things like forest and foefire's mechanics aren't often used in high level play which is disappointing and they way they are used is simple and really has no place in pvp imo. Is there a possibility of either straight up removing them or redesigning them to encourage player participation on both sides similar to the buffs on temple?

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Simplicity to me is better when trying to engage in the PVP skills of players. I suspect your numbers will show that the Eternal Coliseum is more popular as a selection than Skyhammer.As players, I don't think we want more unique gimmicks - we want fairly simple and straightforward maps that allow us to fight against our enemies. At least, that's what I want, and from the sense that I get reading these forums and reddit, is probably what many others want.And you are correct, Battle of Champion's Dusk does seem to favor enlisting minions and attacking the Lord directly. Perhaps a way to improve this would be to not making the map as serpentine, and make it wider open, that way players will actually encounter each other.Perhaps borrow some of what seems to work in a WVW mode and have players need to push in one direction or another - if one team can make the battle line be towards the other team's lord, then that lord can be attacked. Otherwise, yeah, you're just going to have each time snake through its side in a lot of cases.

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For the new conquest map please invite feedback on your ideas of mechanics. I just keep thinking about skyhammer and one shot stealth pulls/pushes. When you are in alpha/beta testing invite some pvp streamers/good players to evaluate it on stream since you chose not to have a public test server.

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@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

Battle of Champion’s Dusk: We are planning a fairly big revision of this map in the distant future in an effort to improve the Stronghold experience. Since we haven’t started yet, this would be a good opportunity for players to provide feedback in. One of our main concerns is that the current optimum strategy on this map is for teams to actively ignore each other.

As Quaggan said in Game Mode thread (Quaggan guesses, this thread is fit more discussion about this particular map, so he will quote himself).

@Morwath.9817 said:In Quaggan opinion Stronghold is in dire need of major changes, like removal of door breakers, destroying gates should be players job, as defending them. Damage dealt to gates shouldn't be as bad as in WvW, players shouldn't have issues with destroying gate when not contested, maybe you could add Flag at the mid, which would give +100% damage to gates while controled, maybe summoned Heroes of the Mist should apply such buff, but game mode should be all about interactions between players, not babysiting NPCs (with exception of Lord). Quaggan would also leave suppiles at mid, so players could use them to repair damaged, but not destroyed gates.

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  • ArenaNet Staff

@AlexPort.9204 said:any news of changing spirit watch or bring it into ranked?

We talk about it from time to time. The big thing I think is bad about Spirit Watch is the orb skills being bad. Additionally, I've been thinking about removing or reducing the speed debuff the orb gives. I'd probably want to do a revision on those and evaluate on unranked before adding it to ranked.

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  • ArenaNet Staff

@Endelon.1042 said:Can you elaborate on plans for Stronghold as far as what it will become mode-wise or will it just remain a map for unranked 5v5 play?

It's likely to stay in unranked, for the near future at least. I've always felt it odd to have 2 very different game modes using the same ranking ladder.

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I would like to see an underground asura complex as a pvp map, in the style of the crucible of eternity for example. Time for innovation, always make basic maps on surface. Why not making more underground ones, and don't know, in space? Like mistlock sanctuary.

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@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

@AlexPort.9204 said:any news of changing spirit watch or bring it into ranked?

We talk about it from time to time. The big thing I think is bad about Spirit Watch is the orb skills being bad. Additionally, I've been thinking about removing or reducing the speed debuff the orb gives. I'd probably want to do a revision on those and evaluate on unranked before adding it to ranked.

You could just make the orb move by itself.

First person to channel it causes the orb to produce a point around it for their team. As long as a person from the team who channeled it remains around the orb, the orb automatically moves towards the nearest capture point. The more members of a team who stand near the orb, the faster the orb moves. If the enemy team outnumbers you inside the point, the orb stops moving. After a certain time limit, the orb resets.

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@Kuya.6495 said:

@AlexPort.9204 said:any news of changing spirit watch or bring it into ranked?

We talk about it from time to time. The big thing I think is bad about Spirit Watch is the orb skills being bad. Additionally, I've been thinking about removing or reducing the speed debuff the orb gives. I'd probably want to do a revision on those and evaluate on unranked before adding it to ranked.

You could just make the orb move by itself.

First person to channel it causes the orb to produce a point around it for their team. As long as a person from the team who channeled it remains around the orb, the orb automatically moves towards the nearest capture point. The more members of a team who stand near the orb, the faster the orb moves. If the enemy team outnumbers you inside the point, the orb stops moving. After a certain time limit, the orb resets.

I know it's a small detail but I'd say if you're doing that type of system have the orb move towards whatever team has more people on the point. If it's equal numbers it won't move and if it's not won in a certain timeframe then nobody gets the bonus points until the next interval (Should be only about 3 of these orb fights per match).

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@Ario.8964 said:

@Kuya.6495 said:

@AlexPort.9204 said:any news of changing spirit watch or bring it into ranked?

We talk about it from time to time. The big thing I think is bad about Spirit Watch is the orb skills being bad. Additionally, I've been thinking about removing or reducing the speed debuff the orb gives. I'd probably want to do a revision on those and evaluate on unranked before adding it to ranked.

You could just make the orb move by itself.

First person to channel it causes the orb to produce a point around it for their team. As long as a person from the team who channeled it remains around the orb, the orb automatically moves towards the nearest capture point. The more members of a team who stand near the orb, the faster the orb moves. If the enemy team outnumbers you inside the point, the orb stops moving. After a certain time limit, the orb resets.

I know it's a small detail but I'd say if you're doing that type of system have the orb move towards whatever team has more people on the point. If it's equal numbers it won't move and if it's not won in a certain timeframe then nobody gets the bonus points until the next interval (Should be only about 3 of these orb fights per match).

I like your suggestion!

It would be interesting because this would turn the orb into a mobile capture point two teams would have to fight over, which is a dynamic we haven't seen before in pvp.

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Battle of Champion's Dusk:I know its one heck of a painstaking undertaking, but this map would largely benefit from a larger team format. The map feels to big and the combat roles to many for just 5 people. You have supply, treb, hero captures, offence, and defense. It is simply to much to do for 5 people and you can easily get rolled by being in the wrong place at the wrong time. It could easily be the GvG format so many players are looking for if revamped correctly.

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Some mechanic ideas:

  1. A buff that allows the usage of shortcuts to various parts of the map.
  2. A buff that allows contesting and un-contesting of points twice as fast.
  3. A random player awards 10 points if killed and if he kills it awards 10 points. This can happen every 2 minutes or so to a random player of each team and is valid for one kill/death. People affected by this curse re-spawn instantly.
  4. A random ghost/npc appears somewhere in the map. Short channel freezes all map-wide foes for 3 seconds.
  5. Old serenity buff (kills are worth 8 points).
  6. Instant re-spawn
  7. Kill multiplier (1st kill 5, 2nd 10, etc. Within a lapse of time).
  8. Kills are worth 0 points for a set amount of time.
  9. Conquest point reversal (Red becomes blue, blue red).
  10. Random traps appear in map, make you slow, push you back and that kid of stuff.
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@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

Battle of Champion’s Dusk: We are planning a fairly big revision of this map in the distant future in an effort to improve the Stronghold experience. Since we haven’t started yet, this would be a good opportunity for players to provide feedback in. One of our main concerns is that the current optimum strategy on this map is for teams to actively ignore each other.

Don't have your metrics and/or potential heat maps but haven't seen the avoid tactic since the early days of stronghold. Most of the time now there is usually a split between some attacking and others defending.

Like the current map in the state its in now to be honest. Wouldn't mind a second map for that game mode and give that a different design and potential new AI pathing. One thing to consider is upping points for player kills and have that varied on where the kill occurred. Something to consider, is a player killed at spawn worth more than a player killed attacking the lords room or one that was defending a lord? I could see that a Stronghold would have a lower average kill rate per game compared to conquest since you have to move about and do some activities to advance to the lord's room. Still think Stronghold is a more dynamic game than conquest since you have to rotate.

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New map mechanic idea:Normal map like always.. but around 5mins or something 1 player standing on home capturepoint of both teams will get transported to a closed 1v1 battle arena (not to big.. with little hiding stuff)-the winner of the match rewards its team like 150-200 points or something..-there should be a timer so it doesnt last forever-the person standing on close gets teleported-if none player is standing on close there will be 1 random person teleported.. so you better get someone close..

Idea is that we still have the normal gamemode.. but now a duel spec can really do something gamebreaking for its team..

Just an idea.. there might be some problems ofc.. just something i would like to see..

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Others have commented on spirit watch's orb mechanic, but for me the biggest issue with this map in a ranked/tournament game is the crazy advantage of having any type of blink/teleport. There is so much vertical space to this map that at a high level gameplay you are at a huge disadvantage if you cannot blink/port.

Also, at the mid node the camera gets really messed up when you are near the edge but facing towards the center of the map. Similar to old Kylo camera issues on mid.

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I think as far as current maps goes, there are a tons of spots that cause teleport skill to either not work at all, or even worse just put the skill on cooldown/use the skill ressources and not work.

Famous one would be around the river area around mine on Forest, you can easily find a lot of iconsistency with those type of skills yourself just logging on a thief and going around spamming shortbow five, and I think it's really important to look at those issues.

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I generally like Kyhlo, but would love to see Treb being reworked. Several options:

  1. Treb now have ammunition and [partially] decaps points. Ammunition is neutral item, so teams must both fight for it and shot.
  2. You must bring 3 ammuntions, that spawns pseudo-randomly through course of time. For example, on min 12 - 1 ammo in midle. On min 10 - 2 ammos next to each team. So teams must decide either go for both, get safe one etc. Once you brough all 3 ammuntions, similarly to skyhammer, treb shoots to all points and decap them.
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@Mireles Lore.5942 said:Battle of Champion's Dusk:I know its one heck of a painstaking undertaking, but this map would largely benefit from a larger team format. The map feels to big and the combat roles to many for just 5 people. You have supply, treb, hero captures, offence, and defense. It is simply to much to do for 5 people and you can easily get rolled by being in the wrong place at the wrong time. It could easily be the GvG format so many players are looking for if revamped correctly.

Totally agree on the number of players. 10 vs 10 would spice things up.

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