Upcoming Wintersday Balance Update - Page 6 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Upcoming Wintersday Balance Update

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  • Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Just remember, when condi damage is nerfed, to make sure necro gets a bunch of mobility skills, fast cast times, better melee capabilities... and 20k + burst potential with weapons.

    "It's that sorta mentality that prevents progress from actually being made and the game from being fun for everyone and not the minority." -TexZero

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/9804/idea-wvw-only-movement-skills

  • Lexan.5930Lexan.5930 Member ✭✭✭

    @Swagger.1459 said:
    Just remember, when condi damage is nerfed, to make sure necro gets a bunch of mobility skills, fast cast times, better melee capabilities... and 20k + burst potential with weapons.

    oh you mean make necro more like every other class right now? except maybe revenenant? Cuz seriously i started making a chrono and omg it's so much easier to play than my necro. Short cooldown skills, useful stun breaks, tons of cc and movement abilitys up the butt. solo'ing mobs was slow but wicked easy.

  • Alpha.1308Alpha.1308 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 7, 2017

    @Lexan.5930 said:
    I really hope you guys will fix the obstructed stuff with necro shades. It's really annoying in wvw and spvp, and i've actually had some intermittent trouble with it in raids.

    i don't raid, but as a wvw player, this infuriates me, i mean, our wells can do it, and so can other class's AoE skills.... either make no AoE skills hit behind walls, or give this one back this capability

    While this is a small balance patch and you probably wont change weapons compleetly, i would like to see some changes to necro staff to maybe use it as more viable condi weapon, or make the projectile 100% finish and track people, or at least move faster.

    i sort of agree with a faster movement or little bit of tracking, it stinks when people can just sidestep it

    but holy butts can it do condi, if you run terror the 2,3, and 5 do a ton of condi damage
    (it's not really going to ever happen with cleanse, but, we're talking about how quickly they can land these on non-projectile-1200-range-skills)
    and 1 and 4 still hit like a bus for power, at least in pvp, it's a good weapon all around, unless you meant in pve, but... that's just a mess on it's own, so.... -shrug-

    @Swagger.1459 said:
    Just remember, when condi damage is nerfed, to make sure necro gets a bunch of mobility skills, fast cast times, better melee capabilities... and 20k + burst potential with weapons.

    .... n.. no
    they're supposed to be slow and threatening, if anything just beef up some under performing skills, but speed boosts and mobility aren't necessary for what they can already do....

  • Oldirtbeard.9834Oldirtbeard.9834 Member ✭✭✭✭

    As long as this pushes Power Reaper into the PVE Meta then I'll be happy, as it is I can't justify the amount of money I spend on gems to my wife, however being Meta in PVE as a Power Reaper would inspire me to continue my generous financial support.

    “The only watchmaker is the blind forces of physics.”
    ― Richard Dawkins, The God Delusion

  • Oldirtbeard.9834Oldirtbeard.9834 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Zaxares.5419 said:

    @Jinks.2057 said:
    Also people need to realize they can tweak raid bosses and PvE content. What this means if they lower the overall DPS in the game by 10k they can easily lower the overall raid boss HPS by certain amount to compensate.

    This. I think, in fact, the best approach to balance would be to simply set a moderate DPS limit (say, 10-15k) and then draw a line in the sand and go "This is the highest DPS that will ever be allowed in GW2." Any builds that can surpass it get nerfed. Build types that can't meet it get buffed. And then you can design all encounters around it and adjust HP totals for raids and world bosses to match.

    This applies to PvP too since I honestly feel that one of the big downsides to the PvP scenes is that individual fights tend to be over WAY too fast due to the DPS creep ever since HoT came out. If you're good, you can kill your opponent in a matter of seconds, (and even good fights tend to be over in 20-30 seconds), which just doesn't translate into a good viewing experience for streaming. For the average viewer, it's like the action is over before you really understand what's going on. (Imagine if you went to see a boxing match and every single fight ends with a one-hit KO in the first round.) It's not like the GW1 PvP scene, which tended to be more drawn out and had more opportunities for counter-play and teammates who could res you.

    Make that 33,000 DPS as the min, with a max of 33, 001and we are talking.

    “The only watchmaker is the blind forces of physics.”
    ― Richard Dawkins, The God Delusion

  • Oldirtbeard.9834Oldirtbeard.9834 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Irenio CalmonHuang.2048 said:
    To re-iterate and hopefully clarify something - this update is NOT an end-all resolution to power and condition builds, it is a step toward the goal of accentuating differences will lead to healthier options in several game modes. This is also a smaller scope update.

    We'll be listening to your feedback on these types of changes, but we ask that you keep discussion to the items we're focusing on here.

    If you have a PTR like a normal game you could make more significant changes since you would have tons of data, you don't even have to have new content to test, just make Peers automatically group in all modes of PVE on the PTR so that you actually have Power Reaper raid data to bring it where it needs to be in one patch as opposed to whole expansion cycles plus in micro nudges.

    “The only watchmaker is the blind forces of physics.”
    ― Richard Dawkins, The God Delusion

  • Oldirtbeard.9834Oldirtbeard.9834 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @zealex.9410 said:
    Ppl lvl your expectations. The extra patch as said by the devs is gonna be a small one. Dont expect all your problems to be solved with it.

    My financial support varies from balance patch to balance patch, for example Power Reaper was significantly buffed and I rewarded them thus so, if it's a minor change then I'll be making much smaller purchases. They can clearly follow my spending trends to verify that.

    “The only watchmaker is the blind forces of physics.”
    ― Richard Dawkins, The God Delusion

  • eldrjth.7384eldrjth.7384 Member ✭✭
    edited December 7, 2017

    What if Condition damage is modified by the modifiers that apply to power damage for instance: precision/ferocity/toughness/armor/might/weakness (i.e conditions damage can crit and can be mitigated by armor/blocks), in addition to condition duration, but itnt so drastically affected by condi duration which currently can go to 100% duration max. Instead duration could be normalised to say 30% as the high end number, so the 'designed' duration of a condis is baked into the skill itself making it more of a supplementary bonus. This would make balancing condition damage almost as simple as balancing power based abilities with the exception that condition is affected by 1 additional mod.

    Some games handle dots by treating them as an additional damage layer which does not stack with itself but only refreshes its duration. Imo this approach wouldve simplified things immensely as one could be sure that their DoT always contributed to dps in opened world/raids/fractals/WvW without fear of reaching some arbitrary game imposed limit, also this would prob reduce server lag too. Basically the idea then is dots are afire and forget power and you use your instant damaging powers most of the time. Im aware that GWs implementation of the DoT is a unique take on it but I was never a fan of stacking dots especially when it had the low 25 stack limit, having played in the beta then taking a 5 year break after returning for PoF expansion.

  • Odinens.5920Odinens.5920 Member ✭✭✭

    @Lexan.5930 said:
    I really hope you guys will fix the obstructed stuff with necro shades. It's really annoying in wvw and spvp, and i've actually had some intermittent trouble with it in raids. Having fights like the new one and any long term fight have condi do more damage over time would be awesome and i'm excited to see the changes.

    While this is a small balance patch and you probably wont change weapons compleetly, i would like to see some changes to necro staff to maybe use it as more viable condi weapon, or make the projectile 100% finish and track people, or at least move faster.

    Yeah, makes no sense that meteor shower and barrage can hit the tops of walls, but not shades. This is what happens when people whine.

  • KeoLegend.5132KeoLegend.5132 Member ✭✭✭

    im just laughing at the condi elitists scared of losing theyr pacifier.
    Its about time condi starts to get reduced. In fact they should at max deal EQUAL damage compared to power because:

    1) Easier rotation
    2) Less things to worry about
    3) No RNG
    4) Less melee-oriented

    Whats the point on playing a safer, easier class while dealing more damage than the one that needs more mechanics? I dont need my Power DH's damage to rise, but rather to bring down all condis to a point that the choices for raids will be based in "We need things killed quickly" or "This boss isn't as mobile as the other, we can bring condi for DoT's"

    Also, all classes should have viable Power Damage, especialy Spellbreaker which is such a fun class to play but the medíocre damage makes us have to play boring condi warrior over and over

  • So um. . . Is it too much to hope for that Renegade see SOME kind of sPVP play?

  • Lunateric.3708Lunateric.3708 Member ✭✭✭

    After reading through most of this thread I'm pretty glad most players have zero impact in balance because the terrible/broken ideas are just too many.

    Looking forward to that patch and I hope the post-feedback thread gets actual constructive, intelligent feedback.

  • Vulf.3098Vulf.3098 Member ✭✭✭

    @KeoLegend.5132 said:
    im just laughing at the condi elitists scared of losing theyr pacifier.
    Its about time condi starts to get reduced. In fact they should at max deal EQUAL damage compared to power because:

    1) Easier rotation
    2) Less things to worry about
    3) No RNG
    4) Less melee-oriented

    Whats the point on playing a safer, easier class while dealing more damage than the one that needs more mechanics? I dont need my Power DH's damage to rise, but rather to bring down all condis to a point that the choices for raids will be based in "We need things killed quickly" or "This boss isn't as mobile as the other, we can bring condi for DoT's"

    Also, all classes should have viable Power Damage, especialy Spellbreaker which is such a fun class to play but the medíocre damage makes us have to play boring condi warrior over and over

    Do we even play the same game? Raids are already like this. Basically what you are asking is for raid comps to go back to stacking Ele's and DH's every fight because every other power build has either been gutted or made extremely situational like DD and large hit boxes.

    The whole condi burst argument came from pvp and wvw. This was never a complaint in raids.

    Power is already pretty dominate over condi builds in raids with the exception of the golem bosses like MO and Cairn. The major problem is is a lot of power builds are extremely bad right now and that has nothing to do with condi's current damage.

    I hate to break it to you but this change does absolutely nothing to bring bad power builds like Herald into the raid meta.

  • ArmageddonAsh.6430ArmageddonAsh.6430 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @KeoLegend.5132 said:
    im just laughing at the condi elitists scared of losing theyr pacifier.
    Its about time condi starts to get reduced. In fact they should at max deal EQUAL damage compared to power because:

    1) Easier rotation
    2) Less things to worry about
    3) No RNG
    4) Less melee-oriented

    Whats the point on playing a safer, easier class while dealing more damage than the one that needs more mechanics? I dont need my Power DH's damage to rise, but rather to bring down all condis to a point that the choices for raids will be based in "We need things killed quickly" or "This boss isn't as mobile as the other, we can bring condi for DoT's"

    Also, all classes should have viable Power Damage, especialy Spellbreaker which is such a fun class to play but the medíocre damage makes us have to play boring condi warrior over and over

    On top of that they are mostly full bunker condi as well because they only need 1 offensive stat as well.

  • KeoLegend.5132KeoLegend.5132 Member ✭✭✭

    @Vulf.3098 said:

    @KeoLegend.5132 said:
    im just laughing at the condi elitists scared of losing theyr pacifier.
    Its about time condi starts to get reduced. In fact they should at max deal EQUAL damage compared to power because:

    1) Easier rotation
    2) Less things to worry about
    3) No RNG
    4) Less melee-oriented

    Whats the point on playing a safer, easier class while dealing more damage than the one that needs more mechanics? I dont need my Power DH's damage to rise, but rather to bring down all condis to a point that the choices for raids will be based in "We need things killed quickly" or "This boss isn't as mobile as the other, we can bring condi for DoT's"

    Also, all classes should have viable Power Damage, especialy Spellbreaker which is such a fun class to play but the medíocre damage makes us have to play boring condi warrior over and over

    Do we even play the same game? Raids are already like this. Basically what you are asking is for raid comps to go back to stacking Ele's and DH's every fight because every other power build has either been gutted or made extremely situational like DD and large hit boxes.

    The whole condi burst argument came from pvp and wvw. This was never a complaint in raids.

    Power is already pretty dominate over condi builds in raids with the exception of the golem bosses like MO and Cairn. The major problem is is a lot of power builds are extremely bad right now and that has nothing to do with condi's current damage.

    I hate to break it to you but this change does absolutely nothing to bring bad power builds like Herald into the raid meta.

    Then lets hope they put all classes with a decente power build. If you read my entire post instead of just the first sentences you would see that we are agreeing on the subject

  • Vulf.3098Vulf.3098 Member ✭✭✭

    @KeoLegend.5132 said:
    Then lets hope they put all classes with a decente power build. If you read my entire post instead of just the first sentences you would see that we are agreeing on the subject

    The thing is Power is already better in Raids than condi at the moment the problem is there really is only 2 viable power builds for that content in the entire game and that is Ele and DH with a special mention of Holo.

    It makes no sense to blanket nerf condi when the problem is coming from 1-2 specs in PvP but since the devs refuse to split the balance between the two contents everyone gets to suffer.

    These proposed changes are going to nerf both Power and Condi Rev which is completely unnecessary.

  • @ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:

    @Shagaliscious.6281 said:
    Eh, not sure I would agree with this. Ele, more specifically weaver, effectively has 4 dodges with twist of fate, add mist form and lightning flash, and you can get caught by a zerg and still make it out alive. Rev, not so much.

    So having to use THREE utilities for avoiding damage doesnt seem a little excessive? I mean the rev could use abilities and avoidance skills of their own as well. Add in Legend swap, add in the condi removal, healing, alacrity that Ventari has, add in the boons, and healing skill Herald has and you have a very sustainable character where as a Zerk ele gets looked at and they die lol

    A lot of classes have to use 3 defensive utilities in WVW tho. And you don't need DPS utilities with weaver, 10k meteor shower crits with 3 defensive utilities, and an autoattack that can kitten near 2 shot any glass builds, your DPS is just fine.

  • KeoLegend.5132KeoLegend.5132 Member ✭✭✭

    @Vulf.3098 said:

    @KeoLegend.5132 said:
    Then lets hope they put all classes with a decente power build. If you read my entire post instead of just the first sentences you would see that we are agreeing on the subject

    The thing is Power is already better in Raids than condi at the moment the problem is there really is only 2 viable power builds for that content in the entire game and that is Ele and DH with a special mention of Holo.

    It makes no sense to blanket nerf condi when the problem is coming from 1-2 specs in PvP but since the devs refuse to split the balance between the two contents everyone gets to suffer.

    These proposed changes are going to nerf both Power and Condi Rev which is completely unnecessary.

    Forgive my ignorance but where in the world is power better than condi on raids

  • @Irenio CalmonHuang.2048 said:
    Wintersday is coming fellow Tyrians and, during the recent AMA, I made reference to a small balance update and I wished to follow-up to let you know that we're aiming to release that update next Tuesday, 12/12.


    We've heard your frustrations with the burstiness of conditions invalidating power builds across game modes (though for differing reasons in each). Conditions have always been intended as a way to achieve strong sustained damage once it has ramped up.

    This small update has primary two foci:

    • Pushing damaging burst condition toward ramping, sustained damage. This should create more opportunities for counterplay, but also feel satisfying to keep conditions rolling once you’ve ramped them up.
      - i.e. We’re tuning some skills that apply damaging conditions so that they apply less stacks up front, but last for longer. In total duration they’re almost the same before and after.
      - e.g. Purging Flames: Burning has been adjusted from 3 stacks for 5 seconds to 2 stacks for 8 seconds.

    • Re-vamping several passive vulnerability traits to offer more distinct opportunities or create synergy with other traits (rather than being standalone). At small amounts vulnerability doesn’t feel good and adding more vulnerability to something that is capped on it has little value. These changes will offer chances to spike up vulnerability when it is ebbing or encourage new build styles.
      - e.g. Mutilate Defenses: This trait has been reworked and renamed to "Expose Defenses". This trait now causes your first attack when entering combat to inflict 5 stacks of vulnerability for 5 seconds. This ability refreshes whenever you use an elite skill.

    As always, we’ll be looking for your feedback once you have had a chance to play with the upcoming changes. We’ll start a post here after December 12th to hear your thoughts, so please prepare your most constructive feedback.

    See you in the lands!

    So does this mean Trailblazers, Nightmare Runes, Malice basically all extra condi duration will be obsolete in WvW? Because real Gvg guild's clenases are on point. So I guess the answer would be to just stack straight condi and hybrid. That will shake the meta up.

  • Vulf.3098Vulf.3098 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 8, 2017

    @KeoLegend.5132 said:
    Forgive my ignorance but where in the world is power better than condi on raids

    Just going to paste a response from reddit when this came up in the balance thread there.

    vg strongly favors power, gorseval favors power (but not by a huge margin), sabetha... kinda depends, usually condies do better but not by a huge margin, with more tweaks power might become the superior option.

    slothasor is go power or go home, mathias is sort of neutral but condies generally do better.

    kc is power or bust, xera depends on your strategy, i like her better with condies but if you wanna do her on the edge sub 50% you must use power.

    cairn is a dps golem anyway but condies generally do better because of torment and confusion shenanigans, MO is literally a dps golem, samarog strongly favours power and deimos is mostly neutral.

    Raids have always been slightly in favor of power but as I mentioned in my previous post there is very little viable power builds left since anet gutted a lot of them already for PvE. These weak power builds need to be buffed and nerfing condi builds just widens the already gap between certain power favored bosses. It would be one thing if there was a lot more viable power builds out there but there isn't. I shouldn't have to swap to Ele or DH when we do KC since Rev's only viable dps right now is condi and they are now trying to take that away.

  • I don't really do the pvp, wvw, stuff. But dear god give the necro some PVE love. It's soooo hard to get a group!

  • KeoLegend.5132KeoLegend.5132 Member ✭✭✭

    @Vulf.3098 said:

    @KeoLegend.5132 said:
    Forgive my ignorance but where in the world is power better than condi on raids

    Just going to paste a response from reddit when this came up in the balance thread there.

    vg strongly favors power, gorseval favors power (but not by a huge margin), sabetha... kinda depends, usually condies do better but not by a huge margin, with more tweaks power might become the superior option.

    slothasor is go power or go home, mathias is sort of neutral but condies generally do better.

    kc is power or bust, xera depends on your strategy, i like her better with condies but if you wanna do her on the edge sub 50% you must use power.

    cairn is a dps golem anyway but condies generally do better because of torment and confusion shenanigans, MO is literally a dps golem, samarog strongly favours power and deimos is mostly neutral.

    Raids have always been slightly in favor of power but as I mentioned in my previous post there is very little viable power builds left since anet gutted a lot of them already for PvE. These weak power builds need to be buffed and nerfing condi builds just widens the already gap between certain power favored bosses. It would be one thing if there was a lot more viable power builds out there but there isn't. I shouldn't have to swap to Ele or DH when we do KC since Rev's only viable dps right now is condi and they are now trying to take that away.

    well then im the most dumb player ever. Because ppl told me to make a condi cuz my DH power would suck on raids and here i am after spendind over 700 G to make the perfect condi warrior/banner slave which honestly is 50% of the fun i had with my risky DH

  • Vulf.3098Vulf.3098 Member ✭✭✭

    That is terrible because DH is great in raids and the bosses that it does struggle on you can run condi FB.

  • Aomine.5012Aomine.5012 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 8, 2017

    Before you nerf the condition, can you guys please look at how broken Firebrand is?

    Without those insane boon corruption/ condi , Firebrand is near unkillable atm.

  • I am interested in seeing what you have done, and concerned that you have not brought coming changes before the public for commentary.

  • DAMAGE OVER TIME in this game is more like powerdamage. I dont understand the trouble here. Condis at the beginning of mmos was more a way for sustained damage, not like the main source of power. I totaly love this patch and i hope we see some more enjoyable fights in wvw and spvp. For pve? I believe you can life with the changes, we had to life 3years with overpaced condis.

  • so in other words.. you nerfed reaper shroud to force people into scourge and now you are taking away all the damage from scourge? the burst in WvW is the only real damage it has at the moment because of the bubbles and condi clear ... or am i reading these notes wrong?

  • Joxer.6024Joxer.6024 Member ✭✭✭

    @notebene.3190 said:
    This will probably get buried in everything else, but I'm wondering how this will effect a (mostly) solo PvE'r in PoF? My Renegade is my only condi character, and was curious as to how it would effect her.

    I am with you on this one. I play Renegade for raids except where not really viable and I think I would give serious thoughts of going back to WOW if they kill Renegade with this. Now, make more power classes for everyone, all modes, and someone will buy you guys a drink! Just don't kill any one class please. ;)

  • @Joxer.6024 said:

    @notebene.3190 said:
    This will probably get buried in everything else, but I'm wondering how this will effect a (mostly) solo PvE'r in PoF? My Renegade is my only condi character, and was curious as to how it would effect her.

    I am with you on this one. I play Renegade for raids except where not really viable and I think I would give serious thoughts of going back to WOW if they kill Renegade with this. Now, make more power classes for everyone, all modes, and someone will buy you guys a drink! Just don't kill any one class please. ;)

    Send me your gold before you quit.

  • Joxer.6024Joxer.6024 Member ✭✭✭

    @Xibalbar.7459 said:

    @Joxer.6024 said:

    @notebene.3190 said:
    This will probably get buried in everything else, but I'm wondering how this will effect a (mostly) solo PvE'r in PoF? My Renegade is my only condi character, and was curious as to how it would effect her.

    I am with you on this one. I play Renegade for raids except where not really viable and I think I would give serious thoughts of going back to WOW if they kill Renegade with this. Now, make more power classes for everyone, all modes, and someone will buy you guys a drink! Just don't kill any one class please. ;)

    Send me your gold before you quit.

    lol, I get where you are going with this and it makes me sad......that and 2g wont do much for ya! ;)

  • Xibalbar.7459Xibalbar.7459 Member ✭✭
    edited December 8, 2017

    @Joxer.6024 said:

    @Xibalbar.7459 said:

    @Joxer.6024 said:

    @notebene.3190 said:
    This will probably get buried in everything else, but I'm wondering how this will effect a (mostly) solo PvE'r in PoF? My Renegade is my only condi character, and was curious as to how it would effect her.

    I am with you on this one. I play Renegade for raids except where not really viable and I think I would give serious thoughts of going back to WOW if they kill Renegade with this. Now, make more power classes for everyone, all modes, and someone will buy you guys a drink! Just don't kill any one class please. ;)

    Send me your gold before you quit.

    lol, I get where you are going with this and it makes me sad......that and 2g wont do much for ya! ;)

    We both know you wont quit. That is the reason why i wrote it. Guess what? I was spending tons of hours learning different classes/builds in spvp and everytime a patch, a addon or new amuletts or other different things killed my expirence and i had to start at beginning. Its a journey and you have to take it like it is. If you leave ( you wont, you love your renegade, doesnt matter what happens) nothing will change.

  • Joxer.6024Joxer.6024 Member ✭✭✭

    @Xibalbar.7459 said:

    @Joxer.6024 said:

    @Xibalbar.7459 said:

    @Joxer.6024 said:

    @notebene.3190 said:
    This will probably get buried in everything else, but I'm wondering how this will effect a (mostly) solo PvE'r in PoF? My Renegade is my only condi character, and was curious as to how it would effect her.

    I am with you on this one. I play Renegade for raids except where not really viable and I think I would give serious thoughts of going back to WOW if they kill Renegade with this. Now, make more power classes for everyone, all modes, and someone will buy you guys a drink! Just don't kill any one class please. ;)

    Send me your gold before you quit.

    lol, I get where you are going with this and it makes me sad......that and 2g wont do much for ya! ;)

    We both know you wont quit. That is the reason why i wrote it. Guess what? I was spending tons of hours learning different classes/builds in spvp and everytime a patch, a addon or new amuletts or other different things killed my expirence and i had to start at beginning. Its a journey and you have to take it like it is. If you leave ( you wont, you love your renegade, doesnt matter what happens) nothing will change.

    BINGO!! I reckon all we can do is hope that someday ANET will do the right thing and make changes that benefit classes overall and not kill any certain one outright. We shall see in a few days if we have to yet start again! ;)

  • Well my advice to you dev's are:
    1. Lower the DPS for CONDI by half and the DPS for POWER by Third or a bit more than a third, so only bursting can only be mad by multiple players. in the same time and make the sPVP experience more fun and the fights last longer. that's what we hardly see most fights are 1 min max we need longer fights in 1v1 if no bunker build there of course.
    2. Healing builds like firebrand are good for the health of the game, but 1200 healing power from the magi amulet is so OP and + the water rune that's just crazy, 1375 healing power is broken . especially in high lvl pvp games when any profession+firebrand= immortality and you can only outrun them if you rotate better so i guess the amulet should be banned or remove the vitality from it so that OP firebrand can be killed if bursted right .
    3.The condi builds are more powerful than power build because most condi build have a lot more health than any power build can .the condi builds have to worry about only two things,* condition damage and *expertise for more duration and the expertise isn't much important because the conditions already last a good amount of time, and its not needed in most cases. and they still can do a lot of dmg with a good survivability by the high vitality or the extra toughness you can have . however power build have to worry about 4 things the power and the prevision and the ferocity and concentration so to achieve that all the power based builds sacrifice the survivability by reducing vitality and toughness so they became glass and easy to kill by condi builds, i guess this is not fair .and more than that the power builds can't have something like toughness to to reduce condi damage let's call it resistance ,that he can base his build on it and not just some other boon .
    4.The amount of condition that a necro can apply are crazy he can put more than 8 condi or more in one burst so the condi cleanse are useless especially that they don't base the condi removal on the higher damaging condition but on the last one applied as far as i know, so remove the possibility from the necro to transfer more than 3 condi using the signet and just cleans the other ones. and remove the bleeding from the necro staff cos i believe it dos not make sense. bleed should be a mele condi only the same thing about the new change on mesmer staff when you changed to burning and bleeding.
    5.Last one is about thief i guess that the traits of trickery are more op than the other one so it make it hard for any thief player to not use it its essential more than the elite specs because of the extra 3 initiative that can give. my suggestion is the remove the +3 init and only make it +1 init and instead +2 init to the original number of init so that more builds can rotate and use more shadow art or acrobatics .
    Tanks for this opportunity hope those suggestion gonna be considered somehow and good luck.

    S A R À B

  • @Joxer.6024 said:

    @Xibalbar.7459 said:

    @Joxer.6024 said:

    @Xibalbar.7459 said:

    @Joxer.6024 said:

    @notebene.3190 said:
    This will probably get buried in everything else, but I'm wondering how this will effect a (mostly) solo PvE'r in PoF? My Renegade is my only condi character, and was curious as to how it would effect her.

    I am with you on this one. I play Renegade for raids except where not really viable and I think I would give serious thoughts of going back to WOW if they kill Renegade with this. Now, make more power classes for everyone, all modes, and someone will buy you guys a drink! Just don't kill any one class please. ;)

    Send me your gold before you quit.

    lol, I get where you are going with this and it makes me sad......that and 2g wont do much for ya! ;)

    We both know you wont quit. That is the reason why i wrote it. Guess what? I was spending tons of hours learning different classes/builds in spvp and everytime a patch, a addon or new amuletts or other different things killed my expirence and i had to start at beginning. Its a journey and you have to take it like it is. If you leave ( you wont, you love your renegade, doesnt matter what happens) nothing will change.

    BINGO!! I reckon all we can do is hope that someday ANET will do the right thing and make changes that benefit classes overall and not kill any certain one outright. We shall see in a few days if we have to yet start again! ;)

    It will change the meta, for every mode maybe or we see some others builds reaching the tops. Same as usual in every mmo. I crafted nevermore for my ele pvp at the start of hot, next season it wasnt viable and i ended with dagger/focus. It happens. Why should it not? For pvp and wvw the condi was kinda weird. You had to take all cleanses you could have and still you was in a disadvantage. Not every class, not every build had struggle, but specially lowlife specs tended to be food if you are not the smartest of the smartest players. Its healthier in all, for everyone. How it will work in pve, i really dont know, but you can stack maybe more over longer times and you have more damage working. But im not a pro for this kind of encounter.

  • @Rhyse.8179 said:

    @ZeteCommander.4937 said:
    Now ,there are too many cleaning skills. After the update, condition damage will be useless in PvP (wvw).And there are few weapons that are directly damage , only to choose condition

    So much this. Conditions are not a choice, or a move to be countered by a particular defense. They are dropped, en masse, by every skill a condition build has. People complain about condition spam, but there's no other choice for a condi weapon user. Some autoattack chains drop 2 or 3 different conditions, even without player input. How do you build balance/countermove system around that? Either you drop enough conditions to be effective, or all your damage is negated by a universal counter (condi cleanse). The middle ground is razor thin.

    Condi builds are fundamentally the same as power builds - you attack until the target dies. It's a part of the class design. I'm not sure how they can fix it without a major overhaul. The only idea I have is to split every cleanse into dps/control cleanses, instead of every cleanse being a universal counter to everything.

    Anet needs to make a detailed classification of the condition, and simple modifications will destroy many buildings,the way of condition works is too extreme

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @KeoLegend.5132 said:
    im just laughing at the condi elitists scared of losing theyr pacifier.
    Its about time condi starts to get reduced. In fact they should at max deal EQUAL damage compared to power because:

    1) Easier rotation
    2) Less things to worry about
    3) No RNG
    4) Less melee-oriented

    Whats the point on playing a safer, easier class while dealing more damage than the one that needs more mechanics? I dont need my Power DH's damage to rise, but rather to bring down all condis to a point that the choices for raids will be based in "We need things killed quickly" or "This boss isn't as mobile as the other, we can bring condi for DoT's"

    Also, all classes should have viable Power Damage, especialy Spellbreaker which is such a fun class to play but the medíocre damage makes us have to play boring condi warrior over and over

    Here is a funny story. Strongest condo burst builds in sPvP are core guardian and renegade. Neither of them is viable in sPvP (in renegade case should never ever be played in sPvP). This change only nerf already underperforming condi builds.

    I strongly agree that all classes should have a viable power build in PvE, but that is not cuz condi builds are taking their place. If we nerf all condi builds to oblivion tomorrow, PvE raids will be dominated by ele and guardian.

  • Lunateric.3708Lunateric.3708 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 8, 2017

    @KeoLegend.5132 said:

    @Vulf.3098 said:

    @KeoLegend.5132 said:
    Forgive my ignorance but where in the world is power better than condi on raids

    Just going to paste a response from reddit when this came up in the balance thread there.

    vg strongly favors power, gorseval favors power (but not by a huge margin), sabetha... kinda depends, usually condies do better but not by a huge margin, with more tweaks power might become the superior option.

    slothasor is go power or go home, mathias is sort of neutral but condies generally do better.

    kc is power or bust, xera depends on your strategy, i like her better with condies but if you wanna do her on the edge sub 50% you must use power.

    cairn is a dps golem anyway but condies generally do better because of torment and confusion shenanigans, MO is literally a dps golem, samarog strongly favours power and deimos is mostly neutral.

    Raids have always been slightly in favor of power but as I mentioned in my previous post there is very little viable power builds left since anet gutted a lot of them already for PvE. These weak power builds need to be buffed and nerfing condi builds just widens the already gap between certain power favored bosses. It would be one thing if there was a lot more viable power builds out there but there isn't. I shouldn't have to swap to Ele or DH when we do KC since Rev's only viable dps right now is condi and they are now trying to take that away.

    well then im the most dumb player ever. Because ppl told me to make a condi cuz my DH power would suck on raids and here i am after spendind over 700 G to make the perfect condi warrior/banner slave which honestly is 50% of the fun i had with my risky DH

    That's your own fault tbh, I don't blindly believe what anyone tells me. For future reference you can check places like:

    Spoiler: the best global damage isn't a Condi build ;)

  • Meanwhile most of us Elementalists are just bad for pvp in general. Any help here?

  • Titan.3472Titan.3472 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 8, 2017

    Scourge is the only class that can safely go melee and everyone else can't deal with aoe spam AND dealing enough damage to take it down.
    Scourge using toughness + condition damage base gears : have a passive direct damage mitigation, spam aoe UNRESISTED conditions damage pressure, debuff melee dps with weakness, convert and corrupt boons, heal from condition they get, and sands shades walls of aoe heal skills ABSORD damage ofc... (at this point mobility is NOT an issue as you can just stand by and Watch people melt around you... So much about "skills") like kitten is wrong with people... this class is obviously BROKEN : your only safe option is range dps burst it (with glass canon power based gear... which is super squishy and you can also die super fast) or be another scourge to counter the so-called condi-meta-lol.
    But everything is fine right : a class with all these advantages is NOT BROKEN, right ?
    With all the list above you can call for Heavy Hammer nerf not small minor patches.
    Noone having fun except people playing scourge (thinking "kitten ! I can click anything it's all IWIN button lulz") ofc...

  • Shiyo.3578Shiyo.3578 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 8, 2017

    @Yukio blaster.9082 said:
    Well my advice to you dev's are:
    1. Lower the DPS for CONDI by half and the DPS for POWER by Third or a bit more than a third, so only bursting can only be mad by multiple players. in the same time and make the sPVP experience more fun and the fights last longer. that's what we hardly see most fights are 1 min max we need longer fights in 1v1 if no bunker build there of course.

    Please people who are in charge of pvp/balance at Anet, completely ignore this quoted post. Slow pvp is really, really, really unfun. Pretty much every other MMO on the market has super slow pvp - people who want that can play one of those games. Keep this game fast paced.

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