Do you trust the developers/publishers with PvE content? — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Do you trust the developers/publishers with PvE content?

GDchiaScrub.3241GDchiaScrub.3241 Member ✭✭✭✭
edited December 7, 2017 in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Probably should watch this first. Totally optional.

Holy Warriors of [Kazo] following Kazo doctrine guided by, Our Lord and Commander, Zudo in the holy Trinity of Him and his two firm glutes.

Do you trust the developers/publishers with PvE content? 75 votes

Yes
50% 38 votes
No
18% 14 votes
Sometimes (50/50)
30% 23 votes

Comments

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 7, 2017

    I did 200% till they put out HoT.

    I even bought the expansion for a few other people, because I loved this game and knew Anet was gonna kill it!

    Ohh.. they killed it alright...

    There are two kinds of Gamers, Salty, and Extra Salty.
    Ego is the Anesthesia that dullens the pain of Stupidity.

  • Ayakaru.6583Ayakaru.6583 Member ✭✭✭✭

    they write good stories, but rush the execution.
    Balthazar felt completely rushed. He would be a good villain, but we only knew him for one chapter, after which we immediately hunt him down. there was never really a fear for apocalypse. Even if he killed Kralkatorrik, there was a risk of magical apocalypse, but no guarantee.
    At least with Abaddon his character was clear, and the threat was real. Abadfon was foreshadowed properly, and we can see all the chaos the absent god caused. All the while Balthazar couldn't dominate something right in front of him

    To defeat the dragons, see the good in them.
    Zhaitan reunites lost ones, primordus creates fertile land, mordremoth spreads the green, and jormag..
    ..jormag? Who's that?

  • reikken.4961reikken.4961 Member ✭✭✭

    I did till they put in mounts

    Don't get me wrong. They do some things very right, but they also do a lot of things wrong. It's hit or miss. much less reliable.

  • Loosifah.4738Loosifah.4738 Member ✭✭✭

    They've had the occasional miss-step; but overall; yes.

  • Menadena.7482Menadena.7482 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I had a blast at first and then things went a bit downhill.

    "Guess what? We listened to you and we will have an expansion!"
    (content drought while hyping the expansion)
    (expansion that did not live up to the hype)
    (another content drought)

    "We have the same celebration! (as last year)"
    (This has happened for every major celebration since around S2.)

    "Here is our second expansion!"
    (ho-hum maps with limited replayability)

    "Look at all the new maps!"
    (which you do not have access to unless you complete the initial instance, own the expansion, own the dlc for the map, and even then most can not be reached via a portal from the neighboring map)

    At this point I just expect they will mess things up. Sure, it is fun to see what they do mess up, but that is what I expect now.

    New to the game? Feel free to give a yell if you need PVE help.

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Here is the Thing.

    This game does not feel like it has a plan. It does not feel like they had a 5 year plan, or a 10 year plan for the game itself, while they had one for the story.. it's like they knew where they wanted the story to go, and unfold, which is what makes it seem coherent for the most part.

    But the rest of the game, does not feel that way.

    To give an example: They added in Gliding. The HoT maps are designed with Gliding in Mind, but it's clear as day that the Core maps were not, there was no foresight that gliding was ever going to be a part of the game. Same with Mounts, Same with Ascended Gear, same with Fractals, Same with Raids, Same with Masteries.

    It feels like they are just making it up as they go along, and... even when they bang out some good ideas.. that still does not build faith that they know where they are going or what they are doing. It feels like.. the game is moving forward by the seat of it's pants and the "good stuff" was more luck then by design.

    There are two kinds of Gamers, Salty, and Extra Salty.
    Ego is the Anesthesia that dullens the pain of Stupidity.

  • I still trust them with the game.... If I did not then I would not play. I would just go and play something else. You, nor they, would ever realize it as I would just not play anymore. Why some keep playing when all I hear is how much they hate the game .... baffles my mind as to why. I would never play a game I didn't like.

  • GDchiaScrub.3241GDchiaScrub.3241 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @PyrateSilly.4710 said:
    I still trust them with the game.... If I did not then I would not play. I would just go and play something else. You, nor they, would ever realize it as I would just not play anymore. Why some keep playing when all I hear is how much they hate the game .... baffles my mind as to why. I would never play a game I didn't like.

    GW2 shipped as more or less 2-3 games. I'd play a different aspect of GW2 if the others failed to entertain me. Or, as you say, play another game.

    I wonder if I should start a poll about Roleplaying in Gw2...huh.

    Holy Warriors of [Kazo] following Kazo doctrine guided by, Our Lord and Commander, Zudo in the holy Trinity of Him and his two firm glutes.

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @PyrateSilly.4710 said:
    I still trust them with the game.... If I did not then I would not play. I would just go and play something else. You, nor they, would ever realize it as I would just not play anymore. Why some keep playing when all I hear is how much they hate the game .... baffles my mind as to why. I would never play a game I didn't like.

    Some people want to love a game, because they really like parts of it..and really.. really.. want a game to right for them.. as opposed to just jumping ship the first time something they don't like happens.

    There are two kinds of Gamers, Salty, and Extra Salty.
    Ego is the Anesthesia that dullens the pain of Stupidity.

  • ReaverKane.7598ReaverKane.7598 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Poll's Kinda Generic.
    Overall yeah, i think they can handle pve well...
    But the game isn't just pve, and they don't handle all aspects of pve equally well.
    The story, for example, to me it's been quite amazing, and i've enjoyed it thoroughly! But some people dislike a lot of it. But overall i think we can say the story has been entertaining, and while it has, sometimes, disappointed some of the player's expectations, it has been consistently the most positive aspect of GW2.

    Overall the environs have also been great. Map building has been quite good and with a few exceptions (looking at you TD) have been positively welcomed.

    Ok, instead of running myself into a wall of text, best sum this up...

    Generally pve is well built, well thought up. But there's a lot of inconsistencies.
    For example, reward-wise. A lot of the time, rewards are meagre and drive people away from the content.
    The best example of this is Dungeons and Luminates Collections. Because pve is so unrewarding, a lot of people resort to pvp reward tracks to finish these items.
    Another example is Bounties. Except for achievements, and because rewards aren't as good as they could be, or as immediate as they could be, people drift away from the content. As they do from Adventures (a gold chest isn't much better than a bronze one).

    All in all, PvE is the most entertaining part of the game, especially the story, but at the same time it's lacking for its tendency to drift towards grind. Rewards need to be more consistent around the game, and less grind-intensive. I mean... Colin Johansen said it all. Grind isn't fun.

  • ZeftheWicked.3076ZeftheWicked.3076 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @STIHL.2489 said:
    I did 200% till they put out HoT.

    I even bought the expansion for a few other people, because I loved this game and knew Anet was gonna kill it!

    Ohh.. they killed it alright...

    I did 200% after they released HoT and then comes PoF to derail my train...

  • Since I don't get a choice in who develops the game, my choices are:

    • Look at the franchise's record to determine if I think ANet can produce a game that's fun for me in the long run.

    And that's it. It's relevant whether I "trust" ANet. It's largely irrelevant whether they say anything at all on any topic It's nice when they ask for our opinion and it's not when they give us a heads-up before making sweeping changes. But that's all it is: nice; there's no contractual obligation for them to keep us informed.

    Or put another way: I certainly believe that ANet has a better handle on how to make a good game than any of us do.

    Hype is the path to the dark side. Hype leads to unfulfilled expectations. Disappointment leads to anger. Anger leads to disgust. Disgust leads to "oh, new shinies! I'm back!"

  • GDchiaScrub.3241GDchiaScrub.3241 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:
    Or put another way: I certainly believe that ANet has a better handle on how to make a good game than any of us do.

    Mmhm, yep. ANET would have a better opportunity since they are the originators of the game. Beats giving it away for another company (or us) to take over.

    A very practical mindset for the relatively immediate situation(s) at hand. To put the poll in a different way, do the changes since inception affect your outlook on the companies involved going into the future (i.e. consumer confidence)? Which is more about longevity and the future of course.

    Holy Warriors of [Kazo] following Kazo doctrine guided by, Our Lord and Commander, Zudo in the holy Trinity of Him and his two firm glutes.

  • Torolan.5816Torolan.5816 Member ✭✭✭

    I am really often not ok with how the commander behaves. He(male for the sake of simplicity) is so inconsistent and forgiving to some powerful potential adversaries and wildcard people that I am very astounded in hindsight how Trahearne could agree to let him lead an army. The swerves in ls3 are of an almost comical nature, with the worst offender being the last one where you help an old woman with not one but two superpowerful artifacts in her possession/reach get her revenge on a guy who could have very well just have been a legend after the main protagonist showed his true colors just for the heck of it if you are not a human. Pretty sure that nobody would have given a flying skritt about said guy if he had just remained in the state he was.

    The price you pay for united and unopposing players is very high in regard to the story. If you asked 100 GW2 players, I am pretty sure the at least 25% would be Separatists or admirers of Joko because both parties have reasons that makes them relatable in one way or another. I feel especially the draw towards the separatists for many GW1 players, foefire ghosts are kind of your people after all.

    Contrary to many people, I am not opposed to QoL items like mounts in regular maps. Making the wallbreaker vista for example gets very old very quick and is easy with a mount.

  • Blaeys.3102Blaeys.3102 Member ✭✭✭

    When it comes to open world content, such as maps, dynamic events, collections, jumping puzzles, etc, no one does it better than ArenaNet. That we get a new high quality map with well thought out content every 3-4 months is impressive and really makes the game something special, imo.

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Rauderi.8706 said:
    And while a HUGE list of problems, I still love this game for some reason.
    Its subtle personality (yes, even in spite of sparklegriffons and WoW shoulders and cotton-candy pink Norn), flowing combat, and passionate developers still keep me coming back, even if I'm wary of what disappointment I might run into next.

    I know exactly what you mean.

    There are two kinds of Gamers, Salty, and Extra Salty.
    Ego is the Anesthesia that dullens the pain of Stupidity.

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ZeftheWicked.3076 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:
    I did 200% till they put out HoT.

    I even bought the expansion for a few other people, because I loved this game and knew Anet was gonna kill it!

    Ohh.. they killed it alright...

    I did 200% after they released HoT and then comes PoF to derail my train...

    You poor thing.. how did you ever stomach Core ?

    There are two kinds of Gamers, Salty, and Extra Salty.
    Ego is the Anesthesia that dullens the pain of Stupidity.

  • @Rauderi.8706 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:
    This game does not feel like it has a plan.

    It really didn't. An MMO shouldn't be created via "agile programming".
    And it really shows in the writing. Season 3 was a mess of unstrung story bits with almost no connection.
    The character writing is growing irritating. You can't please everyone: some love/hate Taimi, same for Canach, but it feels like the character writing is more addicted to pithy/snide quotes from CW shows instead of waiting for the right time to lay down that one-liner. Not to tip spoilers, but it also seems really human-centric. And none of the characters seem to experience joy.
    But what's really noticeable is how the story looks in the long view, and it's a mess. A mess of tropes and needling dialog.
    An MMO story should be set for years ahead of what it intends to commit.

    And then there's the accretion.
    Players pine for more dungeons, but it's not like the old ones were going to be maintained unless they break.
    Underwater combat left in the lurch.
    Crafting done on such an old MMO design that it can't be overlaid in favor of better systems, and it takes even more work to come up with a few new prefixes than to let players choose their own stats.
    New movement methods are fantastic, but that doesn't excuse how many areas weren't equipped for them and needed to be blocked off with Invisible Walls.

    As much as I love the trading post as an economic hub, the economy itself is rooted in RNG scarcity instead of finding appropriate in-game sinks so materials have value. :-1:
    And yet, much love to the eventual revisions in QoL. :+1:

    And combat.
    Such a potentially robust combat system.
    Laid to waste by encounter designs that focus on AoE spam, 5-second stun spam, one-hit KOs, and other obnoxious 'mechanics'.
    Huge condition list that is half-worthless on bosses because Defiance doesn't work quite right. Defiance takes a huge hammer to CC where some additional subtlety is needed.
    Condition/stun spam will remain a problem without additional systems to act as stopgaps.
    This is probably the area that tends to make me regret the game the most, even beyond the chunks of groan-worthy writing.

    And while a HUGE list of problems, I still love this game for some reason.
    Its subtle personality (yes, even in spite of sparklegriffons and WoW shoulders and cotton-candy pink Norn), flowing combat, and passionate developers still keep me coming back, even if I'm wary of what disappointment I might run into next.

    thres no such thing as agile programming :)

    that aside, the only thing that should be planned far in advance is the story line, everything else should be developed to meet current and emerging needs, with just enough lead time that htey can actually build it in time for the target release.

    "Any path that narrows future possibilities may become a lethal trap. Humans do not thread their way through a maze; they scan a vast horizon filled with unique opportunities." - The Spacing Guild Handbook.

    Beware the meta!

  • Ahlen.7591Ahlen.7591 Member ✭✭✭

    @STIHL.2489 said:
    I did 200% till they put out HoT.

    I even bought the expansion for a few other people, because I loved this game and knew Anet was gonna kill it!

    Ohh.. they killed it alright...

    I did till they put out PoF.
    I even bought the expansion for a friend, because I wanted to play with them
    But it was super boring and we quit until LS4 ep 1 came out and saved it a bit.

  • Sarrs.4831Sarrs.4831 Member ✭✭✭

    I think they've done very well with PvE content.

    I don't actually do much PvE content but I think they've done well with it.

  • Tails.9372Tails.9372 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I trust them with the PvP reward system but not with the PvP content. Furthermore, I trust them with the PvE content but not with the PvE reward system.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I absolutely loved the game until the first Queen's Jubilee (August 2013) up to that point they released a healthy amount of content for all players, but it was rather instanced focused, lots of good story telling inside dungeons, with challenging and exciting new events, together with some open world events that could be great but they were dismissed by the atrocious culling. The game was new and exciting, we, the players, as well as the developers, found something unique and as we both got more accustomed to the game, we, the players, found more interesting ways to defeat the content, while the developers found new ways to challenge us. The best time to be a Guild Wars 2 player. I invited lots of friends to play at that time, and had some of my favorite moments in the game.

    After Queen's Jubilee, the Champion loot bag patch and the addition of Ascended Weapons, the game put more emphasis on blobs and farming / grinding. Brainless farming became more profitable, but there were still amazing events added, both instanced and in the open world. So it was still good, a proper mix of content to satisfy both the instanced content crowd, the challenging world boss crowd, and of course the now emerging brainless farming crowd. It was more than common to start gaming the system, gathering enough players at events to cause Champions to appear, to get more loot. From a fun game it turned into a "How do I get the most loot?". Still, it wasn't all bad, there were enough good releases during that time.

    Then once Scarlet died, the game took a massive downturn. Season 2 story was fine for me, the instances were exciting and some of the achievements hard enough to require multiple plays. But what we got in the open world was simple farm / grind maps. I always wondered how could a company that gave us the original game and Season 1, give us something pointless like Season 2. I took my first break during that time as the only new thing players could do is follow a tag and spam auto attacks to get loot. The well documented era of "Play while watching Netflix on your second monitor". It didn't help that we got 10 months break after that, so I stopped playing for longer periods of time. Most of the people I knew stopped playing around here. It was boring, farm/grind - filled period.

    I started loving the game again when Heart of Thorns was released. There was a long period after Heart of Thorns release that had no meaningful releases, outside Raids, and that hurt the game. Once I was done with Raids and the Heart of Thorns content there was little more to do for a while.

    Fortunately once Season 3 started, it never stopped kicking. The story was a bit of a mess, but the maps were of high quality, released frequent enough, both instanced content and open world content, in general the game returned back to the initial era of awesomeness. Path of Fire kept things going, and the first episode of Season 4 is a direct update over Season 3, they promised more cohesive story, the thing that was missing in Season 3, and I can't wait if they keep it up.

    tl;dr The game went like this: Awesome -> Good -> Average -> Awesome (with sort period of average) -> Awesome

  • Well, let me put it this way. I trust Anet a lot more than I trust most other games developers, but I will agree with the assessment that they appear to not have a long term plan for this game and are pretty much just working on the fly. Remember though that this is their first proper mmorpg (gw1 wasn't really an mmorpg) so I'd say that they are doing alright. Could they do better? Of course but at least they haven't done an Activision or an EA or an Ubisoft just yet.

  • Ohoni.6057Ohoni.6057 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 7, 2017

    I trust these developers, for the most part. Plenty of other developers, no way. EABioware, for example.

  • IndigoSundown.5419IndigoSundown.5419 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 7, 2017

    50/50 maybe, maybe 40/60. I trust them to do what they think is best for the game. I don't trust them to do what makes the game better for me. The balance has changed quite a bit since launch (moving downward, in the direction of less trust, with ups and downs, much as the gold-for-gems rate has trended upwards over time, finding new equilibrium points along the way.).

    So, why am I still here? I trust the other MMO developers somewhere between less and not at all.

    Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. -- Santayana

  • I voted no, I was such a huge lover of GW1 and followed the entire development of GW2 and was so excited when the first trailer hit. I hit max level within two weeks on my first character once people found out about the cooking glitch that they have since nerfed for good reason. That was the first real "oh" moment for me, you would think with how much work, time and effort went into making the game someone would've tested crafting to know that one easy to choose profession would max you just by leveling it. Within the first 30 days I had for the most part seen the entire game and quickly lost interest. People may enjoy leveling a bunch of characters doing the same things over and over but map completion on one character just takes entirely too long to do to do it twice for me personally.

    I have never enjoyed how they have implemented tough fights at all whether it be dungeon bosses or story quest bosses. Every single fight in the game just seems to be dodge, dodge, poke, poke, die, dodge, dodge, poke, poke rinse and repeat. The whole fallen god thing was a neat idea, but the fights against him were totally pointless since if you got KO'd he'd revive you, like what is the point of even putting in his annoying combat rotation if he's just going to turn around and res you to make sure you kill him? The main group of characters (besides a few I've never liked) have gone from semi-enjoyable to completely absent or snarky and rude or whiny and emo. It seems like they have all just been watching some teenage girl TV show where it's all "sarcastic wit and snappy comebacks" . None of the conversations in game actually 'feel' like conversations, it just like hearing a bunch of people speak lines to each other, it's not organic like any regular conversation you have. It's like it just needs to hit these points and it's cooh rather than naturally flowing into each other. Also tummi or toonie whatever it's name is needs to either be deleted or that communication device destroyed, I do not want it having direct contact with the commander anymore. Never enjoyed that character in the first place but now the constant having to listen to that voice actor has forced me to turn off all sound when I know it'll have to talk. Literally any other character would be better to take timmei's place. That character is written worse then jar jar binks.

    HoT was alright, they went very GoT like with the story which I appreciated. Having a static group of characters facing such massive baddies over and over again with no sense of actual loss or danger would be pointless. Gliding wasn't my favourite thing, nor were the masteries . GW2 always stuck with me as that game that didn't have flying or mounts. It made it so unique and fresh in a world of the game that shall not be named clones. They have of course have since done away with that unique distinction and while I can appreciate implementing them as a means to traverse the world rather then just be there, in all honestly it's just another facade or shiny veil over more grinding and busy work then actual content. Don't even get me started on the gambling system I got a warning the last time I commented about it, so just know I ABHOR it. The gem store really is the crowning disappointed of the game right now with how they're choosing to implement things.

    PoF massive let down. Like staggeringly massive disappointment. Mount system, awful. Story... You just had to bring back the traitor from GW1 most of us haven't forgiven and wrap it up with a "meh they left bro". Not happy no one was there to help, barely any of the main characters were in the expansion at all and there honestly was no sense of fear or danger like there was vs plant lizard and that whole resurrection thing just no, don't do that again such a cop out. There isn't much reason to replay the PoF maps, no real draw to stay and farm things there whether it be meta events, IN GAME farm-able mount skins or what have you. It feels more as a need for the story to be told rather then an actual living part of the GW2 world. I have some other very strong thoughts about it but it's probably best to keep those to myself as it may not please today's PC culture.

    Then of course as everyone by now is aware of is what they're doing in the gem store to boost revenue using less then desirable tactics in order to hook people with certain addictions. In this day and age of the EA ordeal you would think predatory tactics would be completely off the table but alas this isn't the case. I've spent hundreds of dollars on this game happily cause I knew exactly what I was paying for and what I was getting. I no longer have the same sense of security when I browse the gem store, now my mind is always focused on, "am I being taken advantage of" instead of the usual "oh look shinnies"! Then of course comes the disappointment in the choices of outfits they have released. So many unnecessary flaps/capes/spikes/belts/pockets/tassels/swords/string/doohickies and attachments. That new outfit would've been perfect without those two flaps on the hips. I mean it's such a pretty outfit and those shoes I love, but oh my universe WHY the flaps on the hips? Why does every outfit have to be so extra/gaudy/shiny? I understand it's a fantasy game but a lot of us actually want to have more realistic looking clothing options. Not every single outfit needs 50 belts/whistles/bells somethings really need to be simplistic and beautiful. That zealot's outfit and I apologize to the creators, but it's literally the worse 'pay for it outfit' I have seen in any game ever and I was born in the 80's and have played hundreds of games in my life time. Most of the choices of hair that have been released are a combination of 'angry punk rock chick' and 'may I speak to the manager lady'. No long flowing locks, no waist length and any longer hair choices are either a high pony tail that's all face or have a hair band statically stuck on top.

    I'll stop my essay post now, but these are just some of my thoughts about the game now. They used to have a loyal, caring, and glad to spend customer and now they have a judgy , skeptical, cautious 'am I getting ripped off again' client, for now.

  • Ashen.2907Ashen.2907 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Hmm, I dont know how much I need to trust them in order to enjoy their products well enough to continue purchasing expansions and playing the game.

  • Solvar.7953Solvar.7953 Member ✭✭✭

    I'm fine with most of the mechanics/gameplay aspect. The PoF maps have been more to my liking than the HoT maps, so that is a good sign going forward.
    I think the biggest problem is the story, and that was the case from the start. Zhaitan and the undead was a reasonable execution, but the flawed/fractured group that you need to re-assemble felt somewhat pointless, with a fair number of not particularly likable characters. And that just seems to carry forward - if this was GW1 and those were heroes you unlocked and made a party from, given most of them, I'd rather take the bland henchmen vs them. GW1 did not have nearly the number of unlikeable castmembers as GW2 from my recollection.
    And while Zhaitan was a threat that needed to be taken care of, each chapter has seemed to up the threat level, to the point where the world could end if we don't do something. I think GW1 did a bit better job here, with each expansion focusing on a new area but also starting with level 1 events in each area, where you are doing something and the initial threat doesn't seem that broad, but as the story goes on and you learn more things, a bigger a wider threat emerges, but still not quite to the extent that the world would end.

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭

    You know.. as I think about this question.. For me.. and this is just my feels on it, That there is a lack of Trust when you start looking for another MMO to Move On to.

    So, for anyone that says they Trust Anet.. well if you took a "break" then you really don't trust them.. you just tried other things and realized they are the best you currently will get. That is not trust.. that is settling.

    There are two kinds of Gamers, Salty, and Extra Salty.
    Ego is the Anesthesia that dullens the pain of Stupidity.

  • Scarlett.1605Scarlett.1605 Member ✭✭
    edited December 7, 2017

    I think they have done well with the game, I enjoy finding little hidden things in the environment, events that pop up everywhere. PVE in GW2 has been one of my favorite things, I can step away when life happens, it takes a little ramp up time, but I can jump back in new content when I have been gone. I do find that most content is more enjoyable with a friend. I think Anet has had some aggressive marketing, but has supplied so much game for low cost. Cosmetic items which are fun for me, sometimes pricey, but I believe that goes back into the game, so I am fine with it.

    Overall, I trust Anet to take care of players, and enjoy what they have created for us.

  • Rauderi.8706Rauderi.8706 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @STIHL.2489 said:
    You know.. as I think about this question.. For me.. and this is just my feels on it, That there is a lack of Trust when you start looking for another MMO to Move On to.

    So, for anyone that says they Trust Anet.. well if you took a "break" then you really don't trust them.. you just tried other things and realized they are the best you currently will get. That is not trust.. that is settling.

    Yes and no. Some people just burn through content, and ANet or any developer really can't keep up with that. During those times between Story patches, I wouldn't blame someone for setting the game aside for something else.

    Or to seek a different game experience. I'd still go back to FFXIV if the community didn't suck. :p

    When it comes to the folks who feel compelled to scream "I'm leaving the game naow" in all caps, then yeah, there's a failure of trust.

    Also, thanks @GDchiaScrub.3241 for bringing that video up. I was thinking about my damaged trust in ANet when I watched it yesterday, and I really hope that ANet takes a closer look at their metrics.

    Many alts! Handle it!

    "A condescending answer might as well not be an answer at all."
    -Eloc Freidon.5692

  • No can't say I do. Have to agree with the comment that it really feels as if there was no plan for this game, Anet have consistently done nothing but move forward yet failed to look to the past. It was in the writing when they charted ahead with Season 1 as an experiment and that wound up lasting a year and half. Towards the end they clearly started to have ideas for an expansion and Season 2 went into place to support it and build it up and then nothing. Nothing for a long time until that expansion was released. That expansion was extremely inconsistent, excellent in parts whilst bad in others. But the first expansion for many titles often ends up that way, it just shouldn't be 3 years after the main title is released. Season 3 has whilst improving in the delivery of said content sadly not improved at all in terms of actual story.

    Its remarkable actually. A MMO is about to developing the right pipelines for delivering solid content, I'd hoped the second expansion would develop better contend delivery but unfortunately Heart of Thorns seemed better at keeping peoples attention. Season 4 was delivered much faster compared to Season 3 granted, but the quality has sadly not improved over this time frame at all and I remain rather mystified that Path of Fire took two years to develop in the end.

    Do I trust Anet to deliver PvE content? Yes they've gotten far far better at it. But unfortunatley from my viewpoint that content has steadily been decreasing in quality and I hope that quickly changes.

  • PopeUrban.2578PopeUrban.2578 Member ✭✭✭

    @Tails.9372 said:
    I trust them with the PvP reward system but not with the PvP content. Furthermore, I trust them with the PvE content but not with the PvE reward system.

    This.

    The content isn't at issue. It's some of the best stuff in the genre, they put a lot of work in to it, and while it's not the tightest or most expansive stuff out there, and the writing is extremely variable in quality, its certainly enjoyable.

    The problem isn't with the content. It's with the reward structure.

    GW2 was designed, deliberately, as a game in which the player's primary goal in PvE is rarity for the sake of rarity. That idea that whatever rewards you're trying to obtain, the reason you're trying to obtain them has very little to do with any actual statistical power curve. This is a through line that they've kept up through two expansions, wherin any actual modifications to the statistical power of a character are extremely quick and easy to obtain, with very few insular exceptions. Statistical power in GW2 is not rare. It's common. It is the easiest thing to obtain in the game. New specs, masteries, stat sets, etc. are purposely rewarded in such a way that their acquisition may be time consuming, but is never challenging to obtain.

    And that's great. That's a place where they have adhered implicitly to their original vision and haven't deviated remarkably from the first game.

    The problem is that over time the things players are meant to value in the absence of an ever-growing power curve have been systematically eliminated from the game and placed in ever-increasing relative availability in to the cash shop. The reasoning given for this is "it's optional and cosmetic" and that is absolutely true.

    However, what this approached fails to take in to account is that "optional and cosmetic" is the entirety of GW2's reward mechanism. A game like Path of Exile can rely on "optional and cosmetic" cash shops without diluting the core gameplay/reward mechanism because the rewards are primarily focused around statistical upgrades tied directly to rarity and loot. The point of loot, primarily, an Path of Exile, is getting better stats, items that open new gameplay avenues for more diverse builds, or allow the players to take on more or different challenges. There are certainly items with cosmetic differences, and there is certainly a cosmetic appeal to collecting different loot, but the core reward mechanism of the game, the thing that players are designer to strive for isn't the cosmetic appeal of the reward, its the functionality. Because cosmetic appeal is a secondary, not a primary reward mechanism, Path of Exile maintains a solid gameplay/reward loop even if you never buy a microtransaction.

    It also merits mentioning that Path of Exile is free. As in completely free. As in you can access that entire satisfying gameplay/reward loop and all of the content in the game without ever paying a dime.

    In Gw2, the primary reward mechanism IS the cosmetic appeal of the loot. All new statistical upgrades and build enabling functions are not tied to loot or rarity. They're tied to easy to farm currency or xp systems by design, so that all players can quite reliably obtain them in a very short amount of time. The overarching meaning of loot is completely cosmetic, and because desire for cosmetics is entirely subjective, that loot is also entirely optional. There's no +10 sword that you simply must obtain if you want the best sword build. You already have the best sword build. The only thing you're meant to care about when picking up a sword is "does this sword look cooler than the one I am holding" or "will I want to use this cosmetic appearance in the future?"

    And that's where GW2's reward systems fall flat on their face in the time from launch until now. The "optional and cosmetic" cash shop is not a supplement to this primary reward system. The "Optional and cosmetic" cash shop contains over 80% of all new rewards introduced to the game and the remaining rewards obtainable ingame are necessarily placed in grinds or absurd rarities well beyond their intended value specifically to pad playtime required to obtain them because there is no other option if the game is to have any rewards at all when so few are obtainable by playing the game.

    What you end up with is a game that is effectively designed to be unrewarding in order to push sales in the cash shop. A game in which you have excellent new content in the form of mounts with different movent skills or maps with tons of new content which are either overly grindy or rare for a single piece of usable "loot" in the form of one new skin, or simply don't offer any ingame rewards at all.

    GW2's content is well made, but the rewards for playing that content are so sparsely applied or saddled with grind it becomes a chore to play unless you're willing to whip out a credit card on top of the price you've already payed to access the content. It's a game using a free to play "annoyance tax" approach to reward versus cost that already has your money.

    I love playing GW2, but it is an intensely unrewarding experience, and as such I have very little desire to acquire the majority of the new rewards actually avaliable to me. I KNOW I won't have any surprising loot moments whilst working toward whatever single grind or currency based skin the new patch or expansion introduced that I may actually want, and for this reason I find it very difficult to get excited about grinding for those rewards at all. I want some legendary weapons, and I've started on several, but the lack of any interesting rewards in the process of obtaining them just turns the process in to a grind that quickly becomes too boring to continue.

    So I log out. I log back in when there's new content to play. I play that content once or twice, then I log out again.

    I love playing GW2, but I'd love to have more reasons to actually play it because I can't be bothered to pull out my credit card to buy loot if I'm only ever going to be enjoying that loot in such short stretches of time, and I can't be bothered to engage in overly lengthy grinds or overly rare RNG rolls for the same reason.

    All the perks, none of the responsibilities.
    PopeUrban - The Papacy [POPE]
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  • Silmar Alech.4305Silmar Alech.4305 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 7, 2017

    For me, it's a constant up and down with the trust, or with whatever term is used to describe the satisfaction level I feel with the game and my expectations I feel will be satisfied with some upcoming release. At each release of new content, it drops significantly and slowly raises afterwards, when reworks of failed game mechanics were put into production.

    With a level between 0 (no trust) to 100 (total trust), it started for me at pre-release with the trust built from GW1 at 100. But it dropped shortly after release 2012 to about 50. With the first onetime events (Ancient Karka) it dropped to 20. It got better with the first LS1 instances but dropped to 0 with the Nightmare Tower, where I took a break from the game, as far as I remember.
    I returned shortly after and made the fractals my home, my trust raised back to about 50, where it stood for a long time. With the feature release 2014, it raised to 70 and it slowly raised to 80 shortly before the release of HoT. With the release of HoT, it went to 20 and remained there until the "HoT-fix" a few months later, which brought it to 30 and raising to 50 the year after that. LS3 was good, my trust constantly raised to perhaps 70 mid-2017, where it remained. The release of PoF was a total surprise, it delivered almost everything I complained about with HoT. Trust raised to 80 instead of a drop for the first time. No 100 though, since as soon as with the next update, all can be destroyed and back to 20-0. Nobody knows.

    Find the secret message: +++++++[>++++[>+>+++>++++>++++<<<<-]<-]>>>-.>-------.+++.+.------------.>++.<<<++++.>>++++++.>.<--..>++.-.<<<+.

  • i dont value trust at all here. anet provides a game, i play it for entertainment. trust i have in my business partners but since we can buy gems but cant convert gems back to money there is no investment for me as i cant generate roi with gw2. so everything i buy fullfills solely the purpose of gaming and entertaining. my shopping at the gemstore is for anets or ncsofts profit, i never had the feeling my shopping in the store supports the game as it could be much more than what we got. the lore offers so much possibilities for anet to deliver. therefore i recommend anyone only to buy what makes you fun in the game. dont buy to „support the developement“ and you wont be disappointed one day that your content dream never took place.

    And there is only one thing we say to Death: 'not today'.

  • @GDchiaScrub.3241 said:

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:
    Or put another way: I certainly believe that ANet has a better handle on how to make a good game than any of us do.

    Mmhm, yep. ANET would have a better opportunity since they are the originators of the game. Beats giving it away for another company (or us) to take over.

    A very practical mindset for the relatively immediate situation(s) at hand. To put the poll in a different way, do the changes since inception affect your outlook on the companies involved going into the future (i.e. consumer confidence)? Which is more about longevity and the future of course.

    I'm saying: I don't think it's a useful question. There is no way of measuring longevity or predicting the future: anything can happen tomorrow. Formerly white knights can become vocal opponents if they feel they are wronged (regardless of whether the claim is legit or not). And haters can become lovers over trivial or cosmetic changes.

    It absolutely makes no difference to me if I trust the company or not; it only matters if they make a fun game. The independent awesome firm today can get bought by Facebook or EA tomorrow and end up completely changing everything about what happens at HQ. I simply don't care if the company is "trustworthy".

    I don't need to distrust EA to never buy from them again: my issue is that the games aren't fun enough to make it worth all the hoops I feel they put me through: their form of intellectual property protection services, their way of nickel and diming customers for things essential to the enjoyment of the game and so on. If that changes in the future, then I'll be happy to look at their titles. In the meantime, I don't care.

    I'm not going to boycott GW2 because I think Mike O'Brien doesn't know how to have a frank conversation about mount skin prices or because I won't pay 2k gems for a skin; I just won't buy the skin. I won't play more GW2 because I'm a huge fan of @Gaile Gray.6029 or @Benjamin Arnold.3457. I play because I have fun and in my strong opinion, that's all that matters.

    The only time that trusts matters for me is if I think a company is selling their data about our playing habits (along with details that allow us to be identified), then I won't play. But obviously that's the not the issue raised in the Opening Post.

    tl;dr I think it's an unhealthy distraction to worry about "trusting" the company making a game. We aren't getting married to ANet; we just play the game they make.

    Hype is the path to the dark side. Hype leads to unfulfilled expectations. Disappointment leads to anger. Anger leads to disgust. Disgust leads to "oh, new shinies! I'm back!"

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 8, 2017

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:
    It absolutely makes no difference to me if I trust the company or not; it only matters if they make a fun game.

    Let me explain "Trust" in a simple way. that you could answer.

    If they Put out another expansion.

    Would you:

    • Pre-Order the Biggest Pack (Trust they will make a fun game)
    • Wait till Release, Read reviews and ask friends before making any purchase. (Don't trust they will make a fun game)
    • If the Advertisement looks cool.. I'll buy it (50/50 Trust)

    There are two kinds of Gamers, Salty, and Extra Salty.
    Ego is the Anesthesia that dullens the pain of Stupidity.

  • Ashen.2907Ashen.2907 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @STIHL.2489 said:
    You know.. as I think about this question.. For me.. and this is just my feels on it, That there is a lack of Trust when you start looking for another MMO to Move On to.

    So, for anyone that says they Trust Anet.. well if you took a "break" then you really don't trust them.. you just tried other things and realized they are the best you currently will get. That is not trust.. that is settling.

    Liking other games too is not necessarily an indication of lack of trust in Anet.

    Taking a break, at least in my case, doesnt necessarily mean a lack of trust in Anet. Sometimes sword and sorcery fantasy doesnt scratch the itch. This has nothing to do with Anet and everything to do with interests in more than just gw2.

  • @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:
    It absolutely makes no difference to me if I trust the company or not; it only matters if they make a fun game.

    Let me explain "Trust" in a simple way. that you could answer.

    If they Put out another expansion.

    Would you:

    • Pre-Order the Biggest Pack (Trust they will make a fun game)
    • Wait till Release, Read reviews and ask friends before making any purchase. (Don't trust they will make a fun game)
    • If the Advertisement looks cool.. I'll buy it (50/50 Trust)

    If the OP wants to know those things, they should start a new thread and make those the polling questions. The OP asks about "trust" and I don't know how I can put it more simply: it's not a meaningful question to me; I don't have the sort of relationship with ANet that makes me care about whether they can be trusted.

    Hype is the path to the dark side. Hype leads to unfulfilled expectations. Disappointment leads to anger. Anger leads to disgust. Disgust leads to "oh, new shinies! I'm back!"

  • GDchiaScrub.3241GDchiaScrub.3241 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:
    It absolutely makes no difference to me if I trust the company or not; it only matters if they make a fun game.

    Let me explain "Trust" in a simple way. that you could answer.

    If they Put out another expansion.

    Would you:

    • Pre-Order the Biggest Pack (Trust they will make a fun game)
    • Wait till Release, Read reviews and ask friends before making any purchase. (Don't trust they will make a fun game)
    • If the Advertisement looks cool.. I'll buy it (50/50 Trust)

    If the OP wants to know those things, they should start a new thread and make those the polling questions. The OP asks about "trust" and I don't know how I can put it more simply: it's not a meaningful question to me; I don't have the sort of relationship with ANet that makes me care about whether they can be trusted.

    Na's viewpoint is perfectly fine.

    Regardless of the brand he/she will decide with their own money per product basis. It is open ended enough as is, and anymore tampering with the question could have potentially biased even more towards a direction. Being on the forums alone is enough bias, since people more often than not come here to either complain, inquire, or share fan creations. If they're having a good time in the video game...why would they leave that?

    Holy Warriors of [Kazo] following Kazo doctrine guided by, Our Lord and Commander, Zudo in the holy Trinity of Him and his two firm glutes.

  • Trust is boolean! Either you trust someone or you don't. If you feel you can trust someone "sometimes" you don't TRUST that someone!
    Like this: "My spouse cheated on me. I love him and we went through counseling. We are still together and sometimes I trust him!"... Yeah right :anguished:

    Video was (probably long-winded for most, but) nice - Though "Fans do fall out of love with a series once it starts to wear thin" could have just as well been a broader "Fans do fall out of love with a series once it fails to stay true to expectations".
    This ofc is personal experience: Loved GW, liked GW2 core, loathed GW2 HoT - How likely was it that I would buy PoF (I didn't).

  • GDchiaScrub.3241GDchiaScrub.3241 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Halandir.3609 said:
    Trust is boolean! Either you trust someone or you don't. If you feel you can trust someone "sometimes" you don't TRUST that someone!
    Like this: "My spouse cheated on me. I love him and we went through counseling. We are still together and sometimes I trust him!"... Yeah right :anguished:

    Video was (probably long-winded for most, but) nice - Though "Fans do fall out of love with a series once it starts to wear thin" could have just as well been a broader "Fans do fall out of love with a series once it fails to stay true to expectations".
    This ofc is personal experience: Loved GW, liked GW2 core, loathed GW2 HoT - How likely was it that I would buy PoF (I didn't).

    Boolean if condensed into single variables, then yes. Condensing your total interest in GW/GW2Core/GW2Hot is a single variable as you pointed out. I trust my child to clean their room, but I do not trust them to drive. Games and People are made up of different variables that have different values. Such as cheating on someone is worth far more in the trust department for you compared to taking out the garbage. The poll is open ended enough that sometimes (50/50) as an option is fine. Some may decide not to average their total experience so saying "sometimes" is valid enough for me.

    Holy Warriors of [Kazo] following Kazo doctrine guided by, Our Lord and Commander, Zudo in the holy Trinity of Him and his two firm glutes.

  • @GDchiaScrub.3241 said:

    @Halandir.3609 said:
    Trust is boolean! Either you trust someone or you don't. If you feel you can trust someone "sometimes" you don't TRUST that someone!
    Like this: "My spouse cheated on me. I love him and we went through counseling. We are still together and sometimes I trust him!"... Yeah right :anguished:

    Video was (probably long-winded for most, but) nice - Though "Fans do fall out of love with a series once it starts to wear thin" could have just as well been a broader "Fans do fall out of love with a series once it fails to stay true to expectations".
    This ofc is personal experience: Loved GW, liked GW2 core, loathed GW2 HoT - How likely was it that I would buy PoF (I didn't).

    Boolean if condensed into single variables, then yes. Condensing your total interest in GW/GW2Core/GW2Hot is a single variable as you pointed out. I trust my child to clean their room, but I do not trust them to drive. Games and People are made up of different variables that have different values. Such as cheating on someone is worth far more in the trust department for you compared to taking out the garbage. The poll is open ended enough that sometimes (50/50) as an option is fine. Some may decide not to average their total experience so saying "sometimes" is valid enough for me.

    Thanks for expanding my view. Your example and the context of this poll is a better match than my narrow view/definition. I see and agree :+1:

  • Grampybone.3716Grampybone.3716 Member ✭✭
    edited December 9, 2017

    Release GW3 and I'm out. For me GW2/expansions is a game that could last for years.
    I'm a WoW player from release way back untill 2014. Pug was introduced soon it was screwed, punishing people who left group early because of others misbehaviour and were punished while the real cause in the group could go on without any trouble. For me this was bye bye WoW.

    I checked the movie but how many MMO's have a sequel? Mobile games?

    GW2 has much to offer in dynamic events. Eliminating many misbehaving annoying stuff that is in other MMO's. In GW2 we're rewarded for helping each other. Although I cannot speak for GW1 players, GW2 brought a complete new addition to cooperative playing, either grouped or solo, you'll always be part of the players.

    I agree with the movie, it's a business model focused on profit, although I don't know many MMO's with a sequel.
    GW2 invented the dynamic event system on their own so no, GW2 is not a cheap profit focused reproduction of the previous game.

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