Why did we get an xpac weapon that does nothing? — Guild Wars 2 Forums
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Why did we get an xpac weapon that does nothing?

What was the purpose of giving rev access to short bow when it was made so bad that it is like playing unarmed?

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Comments

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lahmia.2193 said:
    Because Rev was missing a ranged condition weapon. Yes it needs improving but stop being a drama queen about it. It's not that bad.

    Tell me any scenario where it is good to use. Needs improvement is understatement of the year.

  • @otto.5684 said:

    @Lahmia.2193 said:
    Because Rev was missing a ranged condition weapon. Yes it needs improving but stop being a drama queen about it. It's not that bad.

    Tell me any scenario where it is good to use. Needs improvement is understatement of the year.

    Carrying a bad pug through T4 thaumanova. Those disappearing platforms can be a pain in the kitten.

  • ArmageddonAsh.6430ArmageddonAsh.6430 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lahmia.2193 said:
    Because Rev was missing a ranged condition weapon. Yes it needs improving but stop being a drama queen about it. It's not that bad.

    The problem was they tried to make it a Hybrid. But as they did SUCH a terrible job. It sucks as power, it sucks as condi, it sucks as Hybrid. Weaver Sword has a similar issue, except it can be good but requires SO much in terms of stats that getting looked at can kill you. Both of these weapons were SO badly designed as Hybrid weapons that they cant be Viable power weapons, Viable condi weapons and just suck as Hybrid weapons

  • Lahmia.2193Lahmia.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Yup, as Quarktastic said. Any situation where you cannot melee. Claiming shortbow is as bad as no weapon just makes you sound like a drama queen.

    @ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:

    @Lahmia.2193 said:
    Because Rev was missing a ranged condition weapon. Yes it needs improving but stop being a drama queen about it. It's not that bad.

    The problem was they tried to make it a Hybrid. But as they did SUCH a terrible job. It sucks as power, it sucks as condi, it sucks as Hybrid. Weaver Sword has a similar issue, except it can be good but requires SO much in terms of stats that getting looked at can kill you. Both of these weapons were SO badly designed as Hybrid weapons that they cant be Viable power weapons, Viable condi weapons and just suck as Hybrid weapons

    Seems more like they made it to be a pure condi weapon but undertuned the damage. Just buff all the numbers and it should be good.

    "Surrender and serve me in life, or die and slave for me in death."

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 8, 2017

    @otto.5684 said:

    @Lahmia.2193 said:
    Because Rev was missing a ranged condition weapon. Yes it needs improving but stop being a drama queen about it. It's not that bad.

    Tell me any scenario where it is good to use. Needs improvement is understatement of the year.

    bad assumption; things are not added to the game because they are the best at what they do. I DOES have a purpose and pretending it doesn't will not aid anyone in justifying requesting buffs to it. If you really want it to be better, being dishonest is not the way to do it.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • Evolute.6239Evolute.6239 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 8, 2017

    If I recall correctly, bow camping condi renegade does more damage than power rev on a dummy (lol)

    It's a pretty mediocre weapon, but it does its niche in giving rev a ranged option other than hammer which was awful and made no sense for condi.

    I don't see many people complaining about longbow on dragonhunter because it's dps is awful.

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @otto.5684 said:

    @Lahmia.2193 said:
    Because Rev was missing a ranged condition weapon. Yes it needs improving but stop being a drama queen about it. It's not that bad.

    Tell me any scenario where it is good to use. Needs improvement is understatement of the year.

    bad assumption; things are not added to the game because they are the best at what they do. I DOES have a purpose and pretending it doesn't will not aid anyone in justifying requesting buffs to it. If you really want it to be better, being dishonest is not the way to do it.

    What the kitten are you talking about?! If the weapon of elite has no optimal use in any game mode the devs f—ked up hardcore. Weapons for all elite lines are designed specifically for the elite to fulfill a specific role.

    Just cuz you dunno much about rev do not come here and spew BS.

  • JayAction.9056JayAction.9056 Member ✭✭✭

    @Lahmia.2193 said:
    Because Rev was missing a ranged condition weapon. Yes it needs improving but stop being a drama queen about it. It's not that bad.

    It is that bad. Don't say stupid kitten like this.

    @Evolute.6239 said:
    If I recall correctly, bow camping condi renegade does more damage than power rev on a dummy (lol)

    It's a pretty mediocre weapon, but it does its niche in giving rev a ranged option other than hammer which was awful and made no sense for condi.

    I don't see many people complaining about longbow on dragonhunter because it's dps is awful.

    No it does nowhere near the damage as power rev on a dummy. Honestly how did you even come to that conclusion? Look at the damage coefficients. That says it all. Go test it on the dummy though and get back to me.

  • ArmageddonAsh.6430ArmageddonAsh.6430 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lahmia.2193 said:
    Seems more like they made it to be a pure condi weapon but undertuned the damage. Just buff all the numbers and it should be good.

    I dunno, it kinda feels like its trying to be a hybrid weapon but failing badly. Also it doesnt hlp that the mechanics of too many of the skills are just trash :/

    @Buran.3796 said:
    The reason no one is using it in PvP/WvW (neither the Renegade) is due lacks any defensive/mobility tool. You can make the auto attack a 4k x hit and still would be hot garbage.

    I disagree with this 100%. Revenant have a weapon swap. They dont need to have CC, mobility and everything on every weapon set. It would get used if it did more damage. Defense/mobility can be used from different Legends or weapon swap.

  • Vasdamas Anklast.1607Vasdamas Anklast.1607 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 8, 2017

    Community asked for ranged condi weapon, they got it. As for why it has no defensive skills, I said it before and I'll say it again - leave those skills be, just give renegade it's own unique dodge (shadow step?) and it will be a very good step towards making the spec viable for any PvP mode.

  • Also make it a longbow

  • Buran.3796Buran.3796 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 8, 2017

    @ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:

    @Buran.3796 said:
    The reason no one is using it in PvP/WvW (neither the Renegade) is due lacks any defensive/mobility tool. You can make the auto attack a 4k x hit and still would be hot garbage.

    I disagree with this 100%. Revenant have a weapon swap. They dont need to have CC, mobility and everything on every weapon set. It would get used if it did more damage. Defense/mobility can be used from different Legends or weapon swap.

    You can disagree 200% an you still will see 0 use of short bow or Renegade in those game modes. Between the middle of PvP season 8 and current season 9 I've fought in more than 200 matches and I only saw one Renegade (which was extremely easy to kill) and 0 Renegades in WvW. Shortbow does no damage, gives no defense, provides no mobility, why would anyone to waste a weapon slot in such garbage? Again: not even doing 4k damage x autoattack hit would have any use. Hammer is vastly superior (and still I don't use hammer, is sub-optimal for PvP/roaming).

  • Arkantos.7460Arkantos.7460 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lahmia.2193 said:
    Yup, as Quarktastic said. Any situation where you cannot melee. Claiming shortbow is as bad as no weapon just makes you sound like a drama queen.

    @ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:

    @Lahmia.2193 said:
    Because Rev was missing a ranged condition weapon. Yes it needs improving but stop being a drama queen about it. It's not that bad.

    The problem was they tried to make it a Hybrid. But as they did SUCH a terrible job. It sucks as power, it sucks as condi, it sucks as Hybrid. Weaver Sword has a similar issue, except it can be good but requires SO much in terms of stats that getting looked at can kill you. Both of these weapons were SO badly designed as Hybrid weapons that they cant be Viable power weapons, Viable condi weapons and just suck as Hybrid weapons

    Seems more like they made it to be a pure condi weapon but undertuned the damage. Just buff all the numbers and it should be good.

    just buff the dps... hell a clunky weapons is clunky no matter how much dps it does.... you will never hit something with skills 2 or 3 ... 4 maybe 5 but ... not
    its a tooooo fging lame weapon with clunky animations

  • ArmageddonAsh.6430ArmageddonAsh.6430 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Buran.3796 said:
    You can disagree 200% an you still will see 0 use of short bow or Renegade in those game modes. Between the middle of PvP season 8 and current season 9 I've fought in more than 200 matches and I only saw one Renegade (which was extremely easy to kill) and 0 Renegades in WvW. Shortbow does no damage, gives no defense, provides no mobility, why would anyone to waste a weapon slot in such garbage? Again: not even doing 4k damage x autoattack hit would have any use. Hammer is vastly superior (and still I don't use hammer, is sub-optimal for PvP/roaming).

    And the reason you dont see it is because this game has a huge power creep for burst damage be it power or condi, people will use the weapon that does the most damage in the quickest/easiest time. The reason people aren't using it isn't because it lacks defense or mobility. Its because it deals dreadful damage. On a Condi build, Short bow WOULD be the better option, if the weapon didnt do dreadful, dreadful damage. Plus, you cant really compare it to a insanely broken weapon. Though if Short Bow got better damage, it would be MUCH better in 1 Vs 1 situations. Hammer really only has use in Zergs spamming into the group that are busy trying to avoid all the AoE, Conditions and CC

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 9, 2017

    @otto.5684 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @otto.5684 said:

    @Lahmia.2193 said:
    Because Rev was missing a ranged condition weapon. Yes it needs improving but stop being a drama queen about it. It's not that bad.

    Tell me any scenario where it is good to use. Needs improvement is understatement of the year.

    bad assumption; things are not added to the game because they are the best at what they do. I DOES have a purpose and pretending it doesn't will not aid anyone in justifying requesting buffs to it. If you really want it to be better, being dishonest is not the way to do it.

    What the kitten are you talking about?! If the weapon of elite has no optimal use in any game mode the devs f—ked up hardcore. Weapons for all elite lines are designed specifically for the elite to fulfill a specific role.

    Just cuz you dunno much about rev do not come here and spew BS.

    Um, that makes no sense. SBow is not optimal used in a condi build? Do tell us then, what range condi weapon is better than SBow in a condi build for Rev? Don't worry, I can wait.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • Buran.3796Buran.3796 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:

    And the reason you dont see it is because this game has a huge power creep for burst damage be it power or condi, people will use the weapon that does the most damage in the quickest/easiest time. The reason people aren't using it isn't because it lacks defense or mobility. Its because it deals dreadful damage. On a Condi build, Short bow WOULD be the better option, if the weapon didnt do dreadful, dreadful damage. Plus, you cant really compare it to a insanely broken weapon. Though if Short Bow got better damage, it would be MUCH better in 1 Vs 1 situations. Hammer really only has use in Zergs spamming into the group that are busy trying to avoid all the AoE, Conditions and CC

    That's false. The weapons used in Factals and raids are the ones which provide better sustained damage, because spike damage means nothing if the damage over time is bad. And short bow of course will have a kitten damage: mele weapons must always need to have better dps to balance the lack of range. ANet should had focus into making the short bow a good PvP weapon wecause anyway there had no chance to replace mace + axe as condi damage dealer.

  • Buran.3796Buran.3796 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 9, 2017

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    Um, that makes no sense. SBow is not optimal used in a condi build? Do tell us then, what range condi weapon is better than SBow in a condi build for Rev? Don't worry, I can wait.

    Mace.

    Renegade is used to enhance the condition damage in PvE. Mace and axe provide superior AoE condi damage and the range is solid. When you need to do damage to enemies far away you use a close gap to enter in the mace + axe range. You should only swap to other weapons if you need the staff for the blocks/breakbar or the hammer for missile negation/extra cc. The meta build doesn't even portray a swap weapon, because any other thing that mace +axe is a huge damage loss for condi Renegade.

  • JayAction.9056JayAction.9056 Member ✭✭✭

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @otto.5684 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @otto.5684 said:

    @Lahmia.2193 said:
    Because Rev was missing a ranged condition weapon. Yes it needs improving but stop being a drama queen about it. It's not that bad.

    Tell me any scenario where it is good to use. Needs improvement is understatement of the year.

    bad assumption; things are not added to the game because they are the best at what they do. I DOES have a purpose and pretending it doesn't will not aid anyone in justifying requesting buffs to it. If you really want it to be better, being dishonest is not the way to do it.

    What the kitten are you talking about?! If the weapon of elite has no optimal use in any game mode the devs f—ked up hardcore. Weapons for all elite lines are designed specifically for the elite to fulfill a specific role.

    Just cuz you dunno much about rev do not come here and spew BS.

    Um, that makes no sense. SBow is not optimal used in a condi build? Do tell us then, what range condi weapon is better than SBow in a condi build for Rev? Don't worry, I can wait.

    Outside of PvE, even hammer is better for a condi build than shortbow, and in PvE there is no reason to swap out of mace/axe for short bow.

    I assume you don't play rev at all or you are bad.

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 9, 2017

    @Buran.3796 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    Um, that makes no sense. SBow is not optimal used in a condi build? Do tell us then, what range condi weapon is better than SBow in a condi build for Rev? Don't worry, I can wait.

    Mace.

    Renegade is used to enhance the condition damage in PvE. Mace and axe provide superior AoE condi damage and the range is solid. When you need to do damage to enemies far away you use a close gap to enter in the mace + axe range. You should only swap to other weapons if you need the staff for the blocks/breakbar or the hammer for missile negation/extra cc. The meta build doesn't even portray a swap weapon, because any other thing that mace +axe is a huge damage loss for condi Renegade.

    So Mace is the RANGED condi weapon that's better than SBow ... that's cute.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 9, 2017

    You're not paying attention. I didn't ask you if it was better. I asked you for the ranged condi weapon you are using on a condi build. I think it's interesting you quote me a melee weapon off skills for that. Again, you don't seem to get the fact that the SBow isn't there to outperform. It's the ranged condi option. That's what it's for. Maybe you like to complicate the reasons to create a justification for improvement.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭

    There you go with the 'outperform' again ... let me ask you a question ... if you are so convinced Anet is all about giving us tons of awesomely performing wepaons, how do you explain the whole game for the last 5 years?

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • JayAction.9056JayAction.9056 Member ✭✭✭

    @Obtena.7952 said:
    There you go with the 'outperform' again ... let me ask you a question ... if you are so convinced Anet is all about giving us tons of awesomely performing wepaons, how do you explain the whole game for the last 5 years?

    Brah cmon. Just stop. You suck at rev or don't even play it. You're derailing my thread.

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 9, 2017

    @JayAction.9056 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:
    There you go with the 'outperform' again ... let me ask you a question ... if you are so convinced Anet is all about giving us tons of awesomely performing wepaons, how do you explain the whole game for the last 5 years?

    Brah cmon. Just stop. You suck at rev or don't even play it. You're derailing my thread.

    That's a serious question and it goes to the topic of the thread. People are claiming Sbow doesn't perform and has no purpose. Performance isn't why we get weapon choice and it has a purpose as a ranged condi weapon. Seems to me those reasons don't make much sense.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • JayAction.9056JayAction.9056 Member ✭✭✭

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @JayAction.9056 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:
    There you go with the 'outperform' again ... let me ask you a question ... if you are so convinced Anet is all about giving us tons of awesomely performing wepaons, how do you explain the whole game for the last 5 years?

    Brah cmon. Just stop. You suck at rev or don't even play it. You're derailing my thread.

    That's a serious question and it goes to the topic of the thread.

    The short bus is about to leave my friend, better hurry up.

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @JayAction.9056 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @JayAction.9056 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:
    There you go with the 'outperform' again ... let me ask you a question ... if you are so convinced Anet is all about giving us tons of awesomely performing wepaons, how do you explain the whole game for the last 5 years?

    Brah cmon. Just stop. You suck at rev or don't even play it. You're derailing my thread.

    That's a serious question and it goes to the topic of the thread.

    The short bus is about to leave my friend, better hurry up.

    Don't worry, I just got off and it dropped me on this thread. Not a coincidence.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • JayAction.9056JayAction.9056 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 9, 2017

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @JayAction.9056 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @JayAction.9056 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:
    There you go with the 'outperform' again ... let me ask you a question ... if you are so convinced Anet is all about giving us tons of awesomely performing wepaons, how do you explain the whole game for the last 5 years?

    Brah cmon. Just stop. You suck at rev or don't even play it. You're derailing my thread.

    That's a serious question and it goes to the topic of the thread.

    The short bus is about to leave my friend, better hurry up.

    Don't worry, I just got off and it dropped me on this thread. Not a coincidence.

    Listen short bus, if a weapon doesn't do anything good, what is the purpose of using it? Some people play this game for more than just pressing random buttons.

  • @JayAction.9056 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @JayAction.9056 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @JayAction.9056 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:
    There you go with the 'outperform' again ... let me ask you a question ... if you are so convinced Anet is all about giving us tons of awesomely performing wepaons, how do you explain the whole game for the last 5 years?

    Brah cmon. Just stop. You suck at rev or don't even play it. You're derailing my thread.

    That's a serious question and it goes to the topic of the thread.

    The short bus is about to leave my friend, better hurry up.

    Don't worry, I just got off and it dropped me on this thread. Not a coincidence.

    Listen short bus, if a weapon doesn't do anything good, what is the purpose of using it? Some people play this game for more than just pressing random buttons.

    For RP perhaps? lol

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 9, 2017

    @JayAction.9056 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @JayAction.9056 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @JayAction.9056 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:
    There you go with the 'outperform' again ... let me ask you a question ... if you are so convinced Anet is all about giving us tons of awesomely performing wepaons, how do you explain the whole game for the last 5 years?

    Brah cmon. Just stop. You suck at rev or don't even play it. You're derailing my thread.

    That's a serious question and it goes to the topic of the thread.

    The short bus is about to leave my friend, better hurry up.

    Don't worry, I just got off and it dropped me on this thread. Not a coincidence.

    Listen short bus, if a weapon doesn't do anything good, what is the purpose of using it? Some people play this game for more than just pressing random buttons.

    It doesn't need to do 'anything good' ... there are lots of weapons that don't do 'anything good'. If you play the game for more than just pressing random buttons, then use the weapons that do the good things you want. You're argument fails because there are lots of choices for good and 'not anything good' people. Never has "it's not good for anything" been a compelling reason to fix a weapon, otherwise, all weapons in this game would be good for something.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • JayAction.9056JayAction.9056 Member ✭✭✭

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @JayAction.9056 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @JayAction.9056 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @JayAction.9056 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:
    There you go with the 'outperform' again ... let me ask you a question ... if you are so convinced Anet is all about giving us tons of awesomely performing wepaons, how do you explain the whole game for the last 5 years?

    Brah cmon. Just stop. You suck at rev or don't even play it. You're derailing my thread.

    That's a serious question and it goes to the topic of the thread.

    The short bus is about to leave my friend, better hurry up.

    Don't worry, I just got off and it dropped me on this thread. Not a coincidence.

    Listen short bus, if a weapon doesn't do anything good, what is the purpose of using it? Some people play this game for more than just pressing random buttons.

    It doesn't need to do 'anything good' ... there are lots of weapons that don't do 'anything good'. If you play the game for more than just pressing random buttons, then use the weapons that do the good things you want. You're argument fails because there are lots of choices for good and 'not anything good' people. Never has "it's not good for anything" been a compelling reason to fix a weapon, otherwise, all weapons in this game would be good for something.

    ...lmfao ok man

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 9, 2017

    Guys Obtena does not play or understand rev and tends to troll, so just ignore. It is well established that SB is garbage. There are tons of detailed feedback over many threads why. Considering that Anet thought that OH sword remake was a higher priority, SB odds of having any functional use are null.

  • ArmageddonAsh.6430ArmageddonAsh.6430 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Buran.3796 said:
    That's false. The weapons used in Factals and raids are the ones which provide better sustained damage, because spike damage means nothing if the damage over time is bad. And short bow of course will have a kitten damage: mele weapons must always need to have better dps to balance the lack of range. ANet should had focus into making the short bow a good PvP weapon wecause anyway there had no chance to replace mace + axe as condi damage dealer.

    As you pointed out, Factals. I am talking WvW. Burst is the way to go every time and that is why its not used in PvP/WvW because its burst, sustained and just general damage is just poor. PvE is totally different and it is weaker for different reasons there. In WvW you wouldnt take Short Bow over Hammer in ANY situation at the moment because Hammer does WAAAAAAY more damage, has further range and has some nice CC abilities and such which can be (even if minor...) help in Zergs. In Solo play, either of them are good choices Hammer is easy to counter when 1 Vs 1 and Short Bow still has the same kitten damage it had in Zergs. So while Hammer does better damage, its SO easy to avoid and Short bow does damage, quite easy to hit but the damage is trash.

    If solo, while its melee Mace/Axe is by FAR the better choice, more damage, more conditions, CC, gap closer. Short Bow needs several skills redesigned because they are SO poorly implemented and need damage and condition buffs. With the nerfs coming on Tuesday it will make an already crappy weapon even worse :/

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 9, 2017

    The odds of having SB changed aren't null, but it's certainly not as bad as you make it out to be. The problem is that it does what it's intended to do; be an option as a ranged condi weapon. This is what matters in this game. Being the at the height of performance has not cause other not-best weapons being fixed ... why all of the sudden does that apply to Sbow? That argument makes NO sense.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • Lahmia.2193Lahmia.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭

    It's funny, before PoF I always liked to play condi rev in pug t4 fractals but there was always a problem with a lack of proper ranged condi weapon. Some bosses you straight up can't melee 24/7 and so I would be stuck using condi rev's limited ranged abilities, doing very little damage. So yes, shortbow does fill a role. Is it in a good place? No. Can it be improved? Yes. But it does have a role and it seems like 90% of the people on this thread are ignorant to this fact.

    "Surrender and serve me in life, or die and slave for me in death."

  • @Lahmia.2193 said:
    It's funny, before PoF I always liked to play condi rev in pug t4 fractals but there was always a problem with a lack of proper ranged condi weapon. Some bosses you straight up can't melee 24/7 and so I would be stuck using condi rev's limited ranged abilities, doing very little damage. So yes, shortbow does fill a role. Is it in a good place? No. Can it be improved? Yes. But it does have a role and it seems like 90% of the people on this thread are ignorant to this fact.

    Yeah but it'd be still cool to remind Anet that SB could use an improvement.

  • ArthurDent.9538ArthurDent.9538 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 9, 2017

    @JayAction.9056 said:

    @Lahmia.2193 said:
    Because Rev was missing a ranged condition weapon. Yes it needs improving but stop being a drama queen about it. It's not that bad.

    It is that bad. Don't say stupid kitten like this.

    @Evolute.6239 said:
    If I recall correctly, bow camping condi renegade does more damage than power rev on a dummy (lol)

    It's a pretty mediocre weapon, but it does its niche in giving rev a ranged option other than hammer which was awful and made no sense for condi.

    I don't see many people complaining about longbow on dragonhunter because it's dps is awful.

    No it does nowhere near the damage as power rev on a dummy. Honestly how did you even come to that conclusion? Look at the damage coefficients. That says it all. Go test it on the dummy though and get back to me.

    Actually a member of Snow Crows said that shortbow viper renegade benchmarked around 24k which right around sword rev dps and probably a bit higher. Regardless both options would need about a 25% DPS increase to reach the lower threshold for what is considered acceptable as a DPS spot in raids which shows how absurdly bad both of them are.

  • hammer is a better ranged condi weapon...

  • JayAction.9056JayAction.9056 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 9, 2017

    @ArthurDent.9538 said:

    @JayAction.9056 said:

    @Lahmia.2193 said:
    Because Rev was missing a ranged condition weapon. Yes it needs improving but stop being a drama queen about it. It's not that bad.

    It is that bad. Don't say stupid kitten like this.

    @Evolute.6239 said:
    If I recall correctly, bow camping condi renegade does more damage than power rev on a dummy (lol)

    It's a pretty mediocre weapon, but it does its niche in giving rev a ranged option other than hammer which was awful and made no sense for condi.

    I don't see many people complaining about longbow on dragonhunter because it's dps is awful.

    No it does nowhere near the damage as power rev on a dummy. Honestly how did you even come to that conclusion? Look at the damage coefficients. That says it all. Go test it on the dummy though and get back to me.

    Actually a member of Snow Crows said that shortbow viper renegade benchmarked around 24k which right around sword rev dps and probably a bit higher. Regardless both options would need about a 25% DPS increase to reach the lower threshold for what is considered acceptable as a DPS spot in raids which shows how absurdly bad both of them are.

    Hmm, I guess I should have clarified in the op this thread is mainly with regards to PvP.

    PvE and raiding in this game is beyond stupid easy and there are way more builds that exist that are viable because of how easy things are. I don't really engage in that portion of the game anymore.

    The only way possible short bow could ever achieve that number is if you land all attacks achieve maximum condi stacks for the weapon on an extremely high hp target and keep that going. Basically outside of a dummy (PvE target) it's not going to have as high as damage output as sword. And even on a dummy it's not going to realistically happen.

    Edit: You could make this statement for pretty much every game with a online PvP community. Playing against another player is always harder than playing against the computer.

  • Evolute.6239Evolute.6239 Member ✭✭✭

    A weapon not being great in PVP isn't anything new. Rev has many problems in sPVP, and Bow is not a particularly important one.

  • Buran.3796Buran.3796 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 9, 2017

    @ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:
    In Solo play, either of them are good choices Hammer is easy to counter when 1 Vs 1 and Short Bow still has the same kitten damage it had in Zergs. So while Hammer does better damage, its SO easy to avoid and Short bow does damage, quite easy to hit but the damage is trash.

    I saw Justine's videos kicking heads using a glass cannon hammer build for roaming, and yesterday Byrevanent was using hammer + sword + shield in matches with double Scourge in the enemy team at PvP with great effect.

    @Lahmia, Vasdamas:

    I'm really not asking for improvements in the short bow, has no use for me. But I would like if ANet lets the Herald alone and stops making things even worse. They failed doing the core Rev and the Renegade spec; would be nice if they let the only thing with the class which works to keep it running.

  • Lahmia.2193Lahmia.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 9, 2017

    @Buran.3796 said:

    @ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:
    In Solo play, either of them are good choices Hammer is easy to counter when 1 Vs 1 and Short Bow still has the same kitten damage it had in Zergs. So while Hammer does better damage, its SO easy to avoid and Short bow does damage, quite easy to hit but the damage is trash.

    I saw Justine's videos kicking heads using a glass cannon hammer build for roaming, and yesterday Byrevanent was using hammer + sword + shield in matches with double Scourge in the enemy team at PvP with great effect.

    @Lahmia, Vasdamas:

    I'm really not asking for improvements in the short bow, has no use for me. But I would like if ANet lets the Herald alone and stops making things even worse. They failed doing the core Rev and the Renegade spec; would be nice if they let the only thing with the class which works to keep it running.

    Funny that, as someone that plays condi rev in pve Renegade was a godsend. I guess it depends on the game mode you play.

    "Surrender and serve me in life, or die and slave for me in death."

  • Buran.3796Buran.3796 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lahmia.2193 said:

    Funny that, as someone that plays condi rev in pve Renegade was a godsend. I guess it depends on the game mode you play.

    Totally. But don't say PvE when you really mean raids. Because for open world PvE/dungeons/fractals/story mode Renegade isn't needed at all, and for PvP/WvW is all "thank, no thanks ANet".

  • @Flauvious.6195 said:

    @Lahmia.2193 said:
    Because Rev was missing a ranged condition weapon. Yes it needs improving but stop being a drama queen about it. It's not that bad.

    It is though. Even if you land all of its slow clunky abilities its damage is terrible.

    The damage is pretty good on SB, it's the slow god awful animations that kill it for Spvp/wvw. SB number 2/3 hit like a truck with condi, 7 instant torrment stacks/bleeds ect. Number 5 knock down is pretty nice as well.

  • @Buran.3796 said:
    I saw Justine's videos kicking heads using a glass cannon hammer build for roaming, and yesterday Byrevanent was using hammer + sword + shield in matches with double Scourge in the enemy team at PvP with great effect.

    Odd you mention Hammer Rev Roaming, because i killed like 4 today with ease. Hammer is VERY easy to counter and you would have to be fighting someone AFK or someone know doesnt know how to counter Hammer to win. The moment you go melee, they are forced into swapping weapon because it loses all its threat.

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lucifer.7289 said:

    @Flauvious.6195 said:

    @Lahmia.2193 said:
    Because Rev was missing a ranged condition weapon. Yes it needs improving but stop being a drama queen about it. It's not that bad.

    It is though. Even if you land all of its slow clunky abilities its damage is terrible.

    The damage is pretty good on SB, it's the slow god awful animations that kill it for Spvp/wvw. SB number 2/3 hit like a truck with condi, 7 instant torrment stacks/bleeds ect. Number 5 knock down is pretty nice as well.

    Good luck landing Sb 3 or 4 against anything. Even 2 is bugged. Add lack of mobility, blocks or evades, Sb is the epitome of garbage weapon.