Possible Terrible Change Coming to Power Reverent 12/12

Re-vamping several passive vulnerability traits to offer more distinct opportunities or create synergy with other traits (rather than being standalone). At small amounts vulnerability doesn’t feel good and adding more vulnerability to something that is capped on it has little value. These changes will offer chances to spike up vulnerability when it is ebbing or encourage new build styles.

• e.g. Mutilate Defenses: This trait has been reworked and renamed to "Expose Defenses". This trait now causes your first attack when entering combat to inflict 5 stacks of vulnerability for 5 seconds. This ability refreshes whenever you use an elite skill.

Source

Elities are not rotational for power Rev in PvE and are situational in PvP. I guess nerfing rev every balance patch is Anet staple now.

Stupid change, Anet if you don't know what you're doing with revenant just stop touching it. They heard "too many conditions", so they went to a POWER traitline for a POWER non meta class with no condition clear and nerfed fucking vulnerability application (and life steal and dmg as a result of 2 other devastation minors Targeted Destruction and Focused Siphoning), like oh ok that's totally what we all meant by condition spam: too much vulnerability! Not weakness, torment, confusion, burns no no friends it was all power revenant vulnerability that had to be nerfed! So essentially power revenant is only allowed to get utility out of Targeted Destruction and Focused Siphoning for the first 5 seconds of a fight.

They were even so proud of it as to use it as an example of their condition "fix". Even when conditions get nerfed power revenant gets fucked in the ass.

What a joke.

These are terrible changes for rev all around. Both condi and power will be nerfed for literally zero reason. I really do not get their logic when really it is only 1-2 condi specs that are broken right now.

ANET...

Unless you are planning to do another balance patch a month after or earlier, please I beg you to reconsider your actions. It's still not too late so please listen to the people who have already played your game for thousands of hours (I'm currently at 1,647 hours on Revenant, 2,982 total)

Repost from another thread

Yeah now that I think about it... so far the "new" Mutilate Defenses trait is a straight nerf to Revenant......... Having to blow the elite skill just to get 5 vulnerability stacks.That's not an option for Jalis nor Shiro.It's even a bigger nerf to Hammer and Staff (which already struggle with DPS), since they wont be able to apply "reliable" vulnerability anymore. So no more Targeted Destruction (bonus damage on targets with vulnerability ) or Focused Siphoning (siphon life on targets with vulnerability).

And unless you are planning to buff every weapon across the board (highly doubt it), this is not going to work... this is just plain bad so far if you don't compensate them with damage buffs. Also losing "reliability" from the little sustain Revenant has, Focused Siphoning.Please aid Revenant by not making it even more under-performing for other 4 months.

Thanks

If this change goes through, they have demonstrated perfectly that they have no idea how this class works and have never read the tooltips. As if removing Equilibrium wasn't horrible decision making, it just continues on and on. Straight up foolish, I hope your company hurts in 2018. The lack of attention in this game is so sad.

@BeepBoopBop.5403 said:If this change goes through, they have demonstrated perfectly that they have no idea how this class works and have never read the tooltips. As if removing Equilibrium wasn't horrible decision making, it just continues on and on. Straight up foolish, I hope your company hurts in 2018. The lack of attention in this game is so sad.

Removing Equilibrium was the RIGHT choice. Did it hurt power builds? yes. Was it needed? yes In WvW the trait was flat out broken being able to hit 8k+ just for swapping legend with no tell or cast time or anything. It needed to be changed. Maybe they could have kept it but nerfed the WvW and adding like a 1second delay or something so that people see they have legend swapped and know they big damage is coming sothey have a chance to avoid it would have been a good idea as well (the replace trait does suck...)

@ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:

@BeepBoopBop.5403 said:If this change goes through, they have demonstrated perfectly that they have no idea how this class works and have never read the tooltips. As if removing Equilibrium wasn't horrible decision making, it just continues on and on. Straight up foolish, I hope your company hurts in 2018. The lack of attention in this game is so sad.

8k...if you count hydromancy maybe, but that's not fair since everyone has hydromancy. Without hydromancy it would require full zerk 25 vulnerability and 25 might.

I would have preferred they brought the nerf from PvP over to WvW than replacing Equilibrium with Spirit Boon.

Idk how anyone even argues that Equilibrium was OP. It cost 50 energy and they had to be on top of you to hit it. You complained about no cast, so? As long as Fresh Air and Smite Condition exist, Equilibrium is fair. Do you know the damage I can inflict with 50 energy that I instead sacrificed for an Equilibrium burst? Anet themselves said they were removing it because it was too hard to use, sounds like the opposite of OP to me.

@"XxsdgxX.8109" said:

And unless you are planning to buff every weapon across the board (highly doubt it), this is not going to work... this is just plain bad so far if you don't compensate them with damage buffs. Also losing "reliability" from the little sustain Revenant has, Focused Siphoning.Please aid Revenant by not making it even more under-performing for other 4 months.

Thanks

Why would they buff every weapon? They are all (except Short bow) either broken in terms of damage cough Hammer cough or they are at least very, very solid. I hope they do this sort of thing with all these "chance on crit" traits. Make it so you have to actually do something more than wail on auto attack to get an effect because they are SO boring. So passive.

As for Focused Siphoning, what they could do is make it so that it increases the damage done and healing based on the Vul stacks the target has, using Power and Healing power of course.

Those that use something like Embrace The Darkness, 5 stacks for 5 seconds for activating and deactivating it wouldnt be so bad, i personally think the stacks should be higher and last longer but with an ICD would help a little.

@"BeepBoopBop.5403" said:8k...if you count hydromancy maybe, but that's not fair since everyone has hydromancy. Without hydromancy it would require full zerk 25 vulnerability and 25 might.

I would have preferred they brought the nerf from PvP over to WvW than replacing Equilibrium with Spirit Boon.

Idk how anyone even argues that Equilibrium was OP. It cost 50 energy and they had to be on top of you to hit it. You complained about no cast, so? As long as Fresh Air and Smite Condition exist, Equilibrium is fair. Do you know the damage I can inflict with 50 energy that I instead sacrificed for an Equilibrium burst? Anet themselves said they were removing it because it was too hard to use, sounds like the opposite of OP to me.

No. 8k as in 8k+ Hell, i have been hit for crazy damage it from it in the past, part of the reason i refused to use it myself. Boring trait. it would cost between 1 energy and 50 energy, seeing as all you would need to do to get it back up past the requirement is to use Auto attack and they hit hella hard on power builds anyway and maybe stop spamming Glint abilities for a few seconds.

yeah They also say a lot of other crap as well. Doesn't mean they would admit their design was broken. You think they would come out and say "rather than fix this broken damage trait, we will just replace it with someone else"? Of course not. The damage it dealt on its own was too much. combine that with sigils and such and you could burst someone down with ease by simply swapping legend...

@ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:

@"BeepBoopBop.5403" said:8k...if you count hydromancy maybe, but that's not fair since everyone has hydromancy. Without hydromancy it would require full zerk 25 vulnerability and 25 might.

I would have preferred they brought the nerf from PvP over to WvW than replacing Equilibrium with Spirit Boon.

Idk how anyone even argues that Equilibrium was OP. It cost 50 energy and they had to be on top of you to hit it. You complained about no cast, so? As long as Fresh Air and Smite Condition exist, Equilibrium is fair. Do you know the damage I can inflict with 50 energy that I instead sacrificed for an Equilibrium burst? Anet themselves said they were removing it because it was too hard to use, sounds like the opposite of OP to me.

And thieves can hit 20k DJs and 11k backstabs. Mesmers can drop a 20k shatter burst. Both of these from stealth.

If you want to take the one shot angle, there are far worse offenders.

If Equilibrium was so "broken" when can we see you campaigning for 6k smite conditions and 4k Fresh Air lightning strikes (ranged and virtually lacking a CD) to be removed?

This guy... keeps jumping on every thread whenever Revenant is being mentioned, trying invalidate every argument or fact that he personally might not like.Straight class hate at this point."Lul equilibrium braindead easy, Herald is so easy to play" Fucking what...Go check that post history

Absolutely pointless trying to "argue" with him and his mental gymnastics.

@"XxsdgxX.8109" said:This guy... keeps jumping on every thread whenever Revenant is being mentioned, trying invalidate every argument or fact that he personally might not like.Straight class hate at this point."Lul equilibrium braindead easy, Herald is so easy to play" kitten what...Go check that post history

Absolutely pointless trying to "argue" with him and his mental gymnastics.

Thats because it was, same goes for the Thief and Warrior Dodge traits. Doing that much damage from just swapping legend. I for one never used it and im glad that its gone. Rev is likely my most played class since the release of HoT, shame that Renegade just kinda sucks but thats a different matter entirely.

@"BeepBoopBop.5403" said:And thieves can hit 20k DJs and 11k backstabs. Mesmers can drop a 20k shatter burst. Both of these from stealth.

If you want to take the one shot angle, there are far worse offenders.

If Equilibrium was so "broken" when can we see you campaigning for 6k smite conditions and 4k Fresh Air lightning strikes (ranged and virtually lacking a CD) to be removed?

yeah and i also pointed out how broken DJ is which also got hit with loads of people complaining that my opinion was different from theres that it was "fine" You talking about the trait or the skill Smite Conditions? Because you cant really compare an actual skill with a 20second cool down Vs a 10second cool down trait. As for Fresh Air, i hate it myself. I find builds that are all "press all the buttons as soon as possible" insanely cheap, boring and far too many to be broken.

Revenant does not have stealth. Only two blinks, both tied to weapon or a legend and only work if you have target in range. Revenant hit like wed noodles, even with 25 stacks of might comparing to any other class. To top that, you can't use skills at any time you want because your own class mechanics cripples you, the only specs mechanics that punishes you for using it now is Holo but it's skills hit really hard.Why would anyone choose it over any other class? Shiny fancy skill animations.

@ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:

@"BeepBoopBop.5403" said:And thieves can hit 20k DJs and 11k backstabs. Mesmers can drop a 20k shatter burst. Both of these from stealth.

If you want to take the one shot angle, there are far worse offenders.

If Equilibrium was so "broken" when can we see you campaigning for 6k smite conditions and 4k Fresh Air lightning strikes (ranged and virtually lacking a CD) to be removed?

I mentioned Smite Condition because it is a powerful AoE instant skill like Equilibrium and you seem to be fine with it because there's a CD lol? What about the fact that most guards running Smite Condition run meditation traits? They get 2 Smite Conditions via utility and trait, and they each heal, cure two conditions and give fury. For free at a short CD of 16s traited, no energy drama, no effort, only needs 1 condition applied to deal full damage, hits up to 5 or 6k.

I like how you say Equilibrium has a 10s CD lol I'd have loved a video of you fighting and using Equilibrium on every legend swap on cooldown.

Thief Mesmer and fresh air ele may be press as many buttons as possible builds, but how was revenant like that? And why is that bad? If connecting burst skills into a combo is something you don't like umm...too bad? L2P?

@"BeepBoopBop.5403" said:I mentioned Smite Condition because it is a powerful AoE instant skill like Equilibrium and you seem to be fine with it because there's a CD lol? What about the fact that most guards running Smite Condition run meditation traits? They get 2 Smite Conditions via utility and trait, and they each heal cure, two conditions and give fury. For free at a short CD of 16s traited, no energy no requirement no effort, hits up to 5 or 6k.

I like how you say Equilibrium has a 10s CD lol I'd have loved a video of you fighting and using Equilibrium every legend swap on cooldown.

Thief Mesmer and fresh air ele may be press as many buttons as possible builds, but how was revenant like that? And why is that bad? If connecting burst skills into a combo is something you don't like umm...too bad? L2P?

Hell, if Anet want to make a skill for Revenant with a reasonable cool down that did what Equilibrium did. That would be fine. Go ahead. The issue is NO trait on any class (and unfortunately there are still too many...) that are just way too strong. Yes. Its a utility, it takes up a slot, has double the cool down (or 16seconds if traited) and the smaller version of the skill (the trait) doesnt deal anywhere near as much damage as the main skill. and only works with the heal which means a longer cool down as well.

Well, it did have a 10second cool down. If you swapped as soon as the legend comes off cool down, that is 10seconds. Do many people do that? No. That doesnt change that it becomes useable when the legend comes off cool down.

Thief really isnt, Most thief builds are using as much stealth as possible and then either spamming "1" until it lands and then spamming "3" or spamming "5" if running Daredevil and Staff. Mesmer and Thief are pretty much spam, spam, spam. Especially Scepter Ele, even more so for Fresh Air. Because the ability to press as many buttons as possible as short amount of time as possible isnt skill based combat. It does kinda take skill to be able to press them all so quickly (unless using Macros...) but the insanely broken power creep is what wins, not skill. Not using the right ability at the right time. Most of these builds wouldnt be anywhere near as bad if the Power creep was stopped a long time ago.

@ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:

@BeepBoopBop.5403 said:I mentioned Smite Condition because it is a powerful AoE instant skill like Equilibrium and you seem to be fine with it because there's a CD lol? What about the fact that most guards running Smite Condition run meditation traits? They get 2 Smite Conditions via utility and trait, and they each heal cure, two conditions and give fury. For free at a short CD of 16s traited, no energy no requirement no effort, hits up to 5 or 6k.

I like how you say Equilibrium has a 10s CD lol I'd have loved a video of you fighting and using Equilibrium every legend swap on cooldown.

Thief Mesmer and fresh air ele may be press as many buttons as possible builds, but how was revenant like that? And why is that bad? If connecting burst skills into a combo is something you don't like umm...too bad? L2P?

Idk why you completely ignore the 50 energy requirement lol. At best Equilibrium's true effective cooldown is 20 seconds when you swap from Glint to Shiro. It almost never happens going Shiro to Glint, and whenever it does it takes properly kiting while conserving energy and knowing what skills take how much energy to make sure you're over 50 energy when you swap. That takes...at least some intelligent play and deserves to be rewarded. Equilibrium was the ultimate trait in rewarding good revenants and distinguishing them from worse ones, which is literally the best kind of game design.

@BeepBoopBop.5403 said:If this change goes through, they have demonstrated perfectly that they have no idea how this class works and have never read the tooltips. As if removing Equilibrium wasn't horrible decision making, it just continues on and on. Straight up foolish, I hope your company hurts in 2018. The lack of attention in this game is so sad.

This change doesn't really have a lot to do with Rev specifically, they're changing both vulnerability and condition damage across the board.

If anything, we should be complaining that after the condi nerf, that we'll no longer have a raid spot (outside of healing) unless power deeps gets a serious buff.

@ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:

@"BeepBoopBop.5403" said:I mentioned Smite Condition because it is a powerful AoE instant skill like Equilibrium and you seem to be fine with it because there's a CD lol? What about the fact that most guards running Smite Condition run meditation traits? They get 2 Smite Conditions via utility and trait, and they each heal cure, two conditions and give fury. For free at a short CD of 16s traited, no energy no requirement no effort, hits up to 5 or 6k.

I like how you say Equilibrium has a 10s CD lol I'd have loved a video of you fighting and using Equilibrium every legend swap on cooldown.

Thief Mesmer and fresh air ele may be press as many buttons as possible builds, but how was revenant like that? And why is that bad? If connecting burst skills into a combo is something you don't like umm...too bad? L2P?

If it was up to me I'd nerf everything across the board, believe me. But the chances for that are so stupid slim.

I'm having a hard time seeing how spiking 5 Vuln on first hit in combat offers distinct opportunities or synergies with other traits ... what other traits does Rev have that trigger in combat that UNIQUELY take advantage of a 5 stack, 5 second Vuln spike that wouldn't get that advantage if it didn't spike like that? I could be convinced Anet wasn't just blowing smoke up our rear ends if there was a distinct opportunity to burst someone for the first 5 seconds in combat ...

To be fair, these kinds of passive effects aren't all that interesting to begin with but let's not fool ourselves Anet ... we are talking about the FIRST fixed trait; no one is going to focus on changing a build based on such a thing ... or even a dozen of such things. I reserve further disappointment for release.

Eh, I'm okay with this change. Looking forward to seeing what I can do with it :^)

@narcx.3570 said:If anything, we should be complaining that after the condi nerf, that we'll no longer have a raid spot (outside of healing) unless power deeps gets a serious buff.

I don't think the devs realize the reason condi's are being taken in raids is due to how bad a lot of power builds are. They shouldn't even touch Renegade since it doesn't deal burst damage through condi's but I doubt they care at this point.

I would like to think that we get some reasonable buffs other places to make up for another random nerf to an under performing class. But they probably won't since they are all clueless idiots. Prove me wrong.

@ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:

Hell, if Anet want to make a skill for Revenant with a reasonable cool down that did what Equilibrium did. That would be fine. Go ahead. The issue is NO trait on any class (and unfortunately there are still too many...) that are just way too strong.

That's false. Thief has traits that daze you + interrupts you + roots you, and can be used from stealth. Mesmer has traits that interrupts you + dazes you + stuns you + puts over you a dozen of confusion stacks, and again can be used from stealth.

But I'm ok with the change because makes harder to play a sub-class (Herald) which I like because how hard to play is. There's nothing special about using thieves, mesmers or necros.

@Obtena.7952 said:I'm having a hard time seeing how spiking 5 Vuln on first hit in combat offers distinct opportunities or synergies with other traits ... what other traits does Rev have that trigger in combat that UNIQUELY take advantage of a 5 stack, 5 second Vuln spike that wouldn't get that advantage if it didn't spike like that? I could be convinced Anet wasn't just blowing smoke up our rear ends if there was a distinct opportunity to burst someone for the first 5 seconds in combat ...

To be fair, these kinds of passive effects aren't all that interesting to begin with but let's not fool ourselves Anet ... we are talking about the FIRST fixed trait; no one is going to focus on changing a build based on such a thing ... or even a dozen of such things. I reserve further disappointment for release.

Devastation line, which this trait is a part of, has two other traits that build on vunerability. 7% extra damage to targets with vulnerability and 67 heal and extra damage to targets with vulnerability. In additional, this is the only trait outside of sword aa that puts vulnerability.

This is unquestionably a nerf if it goes through, since it limits vulnerability uptime on target, in favor of, nothing basically.