A Server Held Hostage by its Population - Page 2 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

A Server Held Hostage by its Population

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  • BB can never be full because it is the only Spanish server.

  • CrimsonNeonite.1048CrimsonNeonite.1048 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 9, 2017

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @CrimsonNeonite.1048 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:
    For anyone that doesn’t know he’s talking about Elona reach and to be clear he’s mainly talking about Kodash/Deso that bring the 50 man blob when they have 15 people. I find it kind of funny someone saying this is happening to Deso when last week Deso absolutely destroyed Elona and Ring of Fireside Surmia (the 2 medium and high servers) together.

    Do you think Deso wants to be stuck in T4-T5? That happens in T5, but the same thing happens to Deso in T4.
    Desolation cannot compete in T4, they just have less numbers; due to other servers having links and so we're stuck in T4-T5, while also having a perma locked population.

    There needs to be competitive balance, where players should be encouraged to move to lower ranked servers, with lower populations.
    It's not gonna happen, when certain servers are locked by bad population calculations, maybe it needs manual adjustments, just like they did with Glicko.

    Regardless Deso is not fairing worse than Elona which is probably as bad as the other triple link in T5. That’s without discussing the elephant in the room which is Deso is full of fair weather players, always has been and now KISS left there’s a big chunk of regular and experienced WvW players who no longer carry the server.

    Desolation's 'fairweather' population used to carry the server, especially during the Tournaments, aswell as the commanders, also Guilds like DVG, IRON, ROCK, EXG and PT, The Pug Population isn't that large in number anymore, certainly not enough to lock the server from transfer, so that T5 is the only place where it can realistically compete anymore.

    The one problem is, about those Population thresholds they speak of, they don't seem to take into account both the host + link(s) separately. Which is why we see some hosts, or host and linked servers are open to transfer, even in the higher tiers, which allows players to stack there instead.

    The system is bad for Deso and Elona, because according to the Q&A, it's calculated by players hours and Populations and thresholds, so I'm not sure something like Kodash will happen again, going by their Q&A.. RoF is linked to two servers, but most players generally moved to Piken, Gandara, Vabbi and FSP, and their links , you also have multi-national players on International EU servers too.

  • VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 9, 2017

    I think a lot of problems could be solved with better/nicer/exclusive shiny rewards for wvw.

    If people saw someone standing around DR in some really fancy wvw-only gear, they would get interested to play. More people wanting to play would benefit the non-full servers making the mode better for everyone involved.

    This is another reason why I am angry with anet for making that super shiny lege armor raid-only.

    That stuff wvw exclusive and we would still be drowning in players...

    At the moment you run in a zerg all afternoon/evening and at the end of the night you got less than from doing events&farming in pve. In gold and mats. And that sucks. Reward tracks are nice. Too bad most stuff you get from them is... well... useless. How many tomes of knowledge does one need? Lake Doric Leatherfarm is more rewarding. Sure, in it is also boring, but hey, you only have to do it for a short while...

    Why not drop in some mount skins every 250 or 500 ranks or something? If people hear you can get those in wvw, the mode would be crushed under a tidal force of new players. Doesn't even have to be the ultra-fancy ones.

  • Tatori.7938Tatori.7938 Member ✭✭
    edited December 9, 2017

    One temporary fix I believe is desperately needed while we wait for the fix that's coming soon™:
    In order to calculate population more accurately, pip farmers/AFKers need to be ignored. Their time played is boosting the whole servers time played up exponentially, while contributing nothing (usually just flipping spawn camps on outnumbered maps for hours a day). They have a multitude of reasons for pip farming, but it needs to be dealt with in order to create better server vs server balance. My suggestion: Add pips into Edge of the Mist. Preferably, give more pips for playing over there so they don't bloat the servers numbers, and have a reason to move. This effectively would resurrect EotM, and allow for a more accurate insight on server population/time played.

    Extra thought:
    Cut down the number of servers on both NA and EU to have one less tier. For the players that are on those servers that would be cut from WvW, allow them to pick which server to move from out of the current ones that are not Full or Very High. Links really need to go. They were a band-aid over a problem that required a lot more than something that falls off after a day or two of use.

  • Eremes Guile.1480Eremes Guile.1480 Member ✭✭
    edited December 9, 2017

    *reads in forum "wvw is dead" *logged in during reset and saw orange sword. SOS zerg fight with BG. Not sure if wvw is dead or just some unecessary crying in the forums.

    *reads in forum "BG is outnumbering every server and is destroying the game" *logged in to see if DB and SOS keeps in eb gets permanently paper or not. Nope they held it t3 until the end of the match. Not sure if BG is destroying wvw or just another unecessary crying in the forums.

    *reads in forum "wvw is dead!" *logged in to see SOS dueling some BG and DB lads. Stayed and join dools until almost an hour. Not sure if wvw is dead or this forum is full of unecessary crying.

    dance

    Guild wars 3 when?

  • atheria.2837atheria.2837 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 12, 2018

    @Chris Cleary.8017 said:
    This is something that we are having chats internally about quite often. Essentially server population is a self perpetuating problem and layer on top of that problem region specific time zone population density and you end up in a situation like we have right now. It's not an easy problem to solve, and not a quick one. I can't yet comment on potential outcomes of the internal discussions, however I can comment specifically about this situation in EU.

    With BB topping participation and Kodash surging this week, the difference between the Worlds in 3rd and 9nd (for participation) is only between 5% and 15%. That's actually a good spread if those worlds matched up against eachother... however.... BB isn't listed as FULL and Kodash is. The idea of "Full" server status can mean a number of things, but mostly it's in attempt to balance WvW populations so that servers that get matched together have a equal paying field of participation. That's clearly not working if BB isn't FULL atm when it should be.

    I'll dig into it significantly more over the next few days (on the population/Server Status situation as a whole). Ideally I'd like at least server status updated (and working properly) before the winter break, but it might happen after. Solving the overarching self perpetuation of population unbalance is a larger issue to tackle, that's not a "soon" thing.

    "attempt to balance WvW populations so that servers that get matched together have a equal paying field of participation. "

    It's not working on any server any longer except the largest, and not even all the time on those.

    Undo the links. They've failed.

    Balance? I have an idea - merge NA and EU servers - or have a cycled server day and night schedule that can adjust for the inequities in numbers on 'off '
    hours for servers on both EU and NA sides of the house.

    We're losing more and more people in WvW - and they aren't getting 'replaced' with new players, older ones are just moving to bigger and bigger servers and
    the 'difference' is exponential between levels and servers - exponential means no 'equal' fights and a lot of 'gee, we took your whole bl for the week'. I just can't see how that's balance in any way.

    People want WvW, but not so many numbers that there is no hope to win or even to fight what is 'out there'.

  • Dear Forum,

    Thanks for participating in this discussion and sharing your thoughts with us. ANET just published a questionnaire. I interpret this as a direct reaction to this thread and hope more people will join to show how devastating the condition of our beloved WvW-Mode really is..

    @Eremes Guile.1480 said:
    *reads in forum "wvw is dead" *logged in during reset and saw orange sword. SOS zerg fight with BG. Not sure if wvw is dead or just some unecessary crying in the forums.

    Im glad you still experience fun moments in WvW, as other people mentioned before these problems do not affect every server.. And as you see, many of us are affected.
    Hopefully more people join the discussion to create a complete picture of the current state of things.

    Link questionnaire:
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/19921/wvw-frequently-asked-questions#latest

    Best,
    B.

  • Ashamir.9574Ashamir.9574 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 9, 2017

    OP is right in the fact that there are too many language servers.

    When linking was introduced in EU some people were even asking if Arenanet were considering the linking of for example German and EU servers. I didn't happen, though, nobody seemed to consider it even, and now we have 7 German servers, of which 3 (Elona, Kodash, Riverside) are always playing solo and 4 (Abbadon, Drakkar, Dzagonur & Miller) are always playing linked.

    Tbh it's just too many servers. Combine the 4 smaller ones into 1 or 2 new servers. Give them new names, so no one server is losing their "identity" while another can keep theirs.

    Same for the French servers. You have 5 atm who are always linked 1-2-3 and 1-2, so none of them has the amount of players needed to play on their own. Augury, Jade Sea and Vizunah are marked as "very high" population, which just shows how incredibly incorrect the ratings are. A "full" server has (barely) enough people to play on their own, therefore a "medium" (Fissure of Woe, Fort Ranik, Ruins of Surmia, Whiteside Ridge) server has to be deserted in WvW.

    At this point I see no other way to fix the imbalance problem in population other than to scrap some servers.

    The linking was supposed to be the solution, and maybe it was for NA, but in EU it obviouly doesn't work out.

  • FogLeg.9354FogLeg.9354 Member ✭✭✭

    @Ashamir.9574 said:
    A "full" server has (barely) enough people to play on their own, therefore a "medium" (Fissure of Woe, Fort Ranik, Ruins of Surmia, Whiteside Ridge) server has to be deserted in WvW.

    I am in Fissure of Woe, marked as "medium" population. I would estimate about 40 players are logging into WvW during the week, some play every day many hours, some less. It is kinda difficult to guess since we are linked to SFR, so these are players I remember from times we were linked to other servers or from times when FoW was single server in T9. Just to be clear, not 40 players same time, but 40 players in total.

  • Nidome.1365Nidome.1365 Member ✭✭✭

    @Rampage.7145 said:
    Look at that kitten i just fixed WvW for you guys for free.

    Nope you just suggested how to kill WvW finally and permanently.

  • @atheria.2837 said:

    @Chris Cleary.8017 said:
    This is something that we are having chats internally about quite often. Essentially server population is a self perpetuating problem and layer on top of that problem region specific time zone population density and you end up in a situation like we have right now. It's not an easy problem to solve, and not a quick one. I can't yet comment on potential outcomes of the internal discussions, however I can comment specifically about this situation in EU.

    With BB topping participation and Kodash surging this week, the difference between the Worlds in 3rd and 9nd (for participation) is only between 5% and 15%. That's actually a good spread if those worlds matched up against eachother... however.... BB isn't listed as FULL and Kodash is. The idea of "Full" server status can mean a number of things, but mostly it's in attempt to balance WvW populations so that servers that get matched together have a equal paying field of participation. That's clearly not working if BB isn't FULL atm when it should be.

    I'll dig into it significantly more over the next few days (on the population/Server Status situation as a whole). Ideally I'd like at least server status updated (and working properly) before the winter break, but it might happen after. Solving the overarching self perpetuation of population unbalance is a larger issue to tackle, that's not a "soon" thing.

    "attempt to balance WvW populations so that servers that get matched together have a equal paying field of participation. "

    It's not working on any server any longer except the largest, and not even all the time on those.

    Undo the links. They've failed.

    Balance? I have an idea - merge NA and EU servers - or have a cycled server day and night schedule that can adjust for the inequities in numbers on 'off '
    hours for servers on both EU and NA sides of the house.

    We're losing more and more people in WvW - and they aren't getting 'replaced' with new players, older ones are just moving to bigger and bigger servers and
    the 'difference' is exponential between levels and servers - exponential means no 'equal' fights and a lot of 'gee, we took your whole bl for the week'. I just can't see how that's balance in any way.

    People want WvW, but not so many numbers that there is no hope to win or even to fight what it 'out there'.

    I love this idea! That's the biggest issue I've seen. I'm NA and my bf is EU and we have to pick one of the other to play together. Either way there are times when no one is on and we can't really play. International servers would be awesome for round the clock population.

  • Napo.1230Napo.1230 Member ✭✭✭

    With BB topping participation and Kodash surging this week, the difference between the Worlds in 3rd and 9nd (for participation) is only between 5% and 15%. That's actually a good spread if those worlds matched up against eachother... however.... BB isn't listed as FULL and Kodash is. The idea of "Full" server status can mean a number of things, but mostly it's in attempt to balance WvW populations so that servers that get matched together have a equal paying field of participation. That's clearly not working if BB isn't FULL atm when it should be.

    Surely the fact that BB only play at night is affecting this? I'm assuming they are robots and don't need sleep or have south American help as from 11pm onwards they have a nice unopposed karma farm.

  • Sovereign.1093Sovereign.1093 Member ✭✭✭✭

    what can we do? situation now is some coverage will not be the same as others. thats just it.

    we have to many servers, few players and no incentive to try harder.

    wvw is casual, your lucky if your timezone allows you to play with ppl. else, do you plan to wake up 2 am to play? i did.

    Not Even Coverage is the Only broken thing in WVW.

  • I love wvw like it is. And I'm playing wvw really really often.

    BUT: Our server is „full“ since several month but we dont have enough players.
    At daytime we are 30 players over all maps, if that. At prime time we seldom have only one queue.
    Some of us are thinking that the server is dying, despite we are „full“.

    I'm not believing it , because I don't want to. :/

    Please Anet, help us. Overwork your calkulations. It isn't fair.

  • Ben K.6238Ben K.6238 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Sovereign.1093 said:

    @Pretty Pixie.8603 said:

    @Sovereign.1093 said:

    @Pretty Pixie.8603 said:
    Previous RvR games have shown that just two or three factions lead to one faction being stacked and dominating the other ones. No one likes to be on the losing team. Populations aren't a fixed thing, new players join, old one takes break or retire. Unless you manually assign populations, this will remain a likely problem, and manually assigning populations come with a heap of problems of their own.

    There can be only one winner in the end

    I'm not sure what you mean with that. Are you're saying you're fine with one Faction being the dominant one? that seems to go against the general argument.

    yes, just like now in the current setup. bg outshines all other servers.

    Thank you for so concisely explaining why 3 factions is not an improvement.

  • Sovereign.1093Sovereign.1093 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 11, 2017

    double posted. hehe.

    Not Even Coverage is the Only broken thing in WVW.

  • Does WvW really need to be a 24/7 match?

    After five years we all know that population and coverage are what matters most in the 24/7 game, followed by organization and a distant fourth is skill.

    Can't we change WvW to remove population and coverage and just have organization and skill dominate?

  • morrolan.9608morrolan.9608 Member ✭✭✭

    @Pretty Pixie.8603 said:
    Previous RvR games have shown that just two or three factions lead to one faction being stacked and dominating the other ones. No one likes to be on the losing team. Populations aren't a fixed thing, new players join, old one takes break or retire. Unless you manually assign populations, this will remain a likely problem, and manually assigning populations come with a heap of problems of their own.

    This does not happen with ESO.

  • morrolan.9608morrolan.9608 Member ✭✭✭

    @Eremes Guile.1480 said:
    *reads in forum "wvw is dead" *logged in during reset and saw orange sword. SOS zerg fight with BG. Not sure if wvw is dead or just some unecessary crying in the forums.

    *reads in forum "BG is outnumbering every server and is destroying the game" *logged in to see if DB and SOS keeps in eb gets permanently paper or not. Nope they held it t3 until the end of the match. Not sure if BG is destroying wvw or just another unecessary crying in the forums.

    *reads in forum "wvw is dead!" *logged in to see SOS dueling some BG and DB lads. Stayed and join dools until almost an hour. Not sure if wvw is dead or this forum is full of unecessary crying.

    dance

    *reads in forum "wvw is dead!" * Logs in on my timezone on reset night my time (ocx) and no server in T1 has a commander.

  • Sovereign.1093Sovereign.1093 Member ✭✭✭✭

    if no commander, pls dont play. if there is a com ppl play or rally to such player, except roamers.

    A com, here, is one who tags up and not a hidden tag.

    If no one plays, lead.

    Coms are a different breed. Really grateful to have someone to follow.

    Not Even Coverage is the Only broken thing in WVW.

  • @morrolan.9608 said:

    @Eremes Guile.1480 said:
    *reads in forum "wvw is dead" *logged in during reset and saw orange sword. SOS zerg fight with BG. Not sure if wvw is dead or just some unecessary crying in the forums.

    *reads in forum "BG is outnumbering every server and is destroying the game" *logged in to see if DB and SOS keeps in eb gets permanently paper or not. Nope they held it t3 until the end of the match. Not sure if BG is destroying wvw or just another unecessary crying in the forums.

    *reads in forum "wvw is dead!" *logged in to see SOS dueling some BG and DB lads. Stayed and join dools until almost an hour. Not sure if wvw is dead or this forum is full of unecessary crying.

    dance

    *reads in forum "wvw is dead!" * Logs in on my timezone on reset night my time (ocx) and no server in T1 has a commander.

    Lmao do you need a commander to flip camp or a tower? Or open field pug skirmishes even?

    Guild wars 3 when?

  • Sovereign.1093Sovereign.1093 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 11, 2017

    @Eremes Guile.1480 said:

    @morrolan.9608 said:

    @Eremes Guile.1480 said:
    *reads in forum "wvw is dead" *logged in during reset and saw orange sword. SOS zerg fight with BG. Not sure if wvw is dead or just some unecessary crying in the forums.

    *reads in forum "BG is outnumbering every server and is destroying the game" *logged in to see if DB and SOS keeps in eb gets permanently paper or not. Nope they held it t3 until the end of the match. Not sure if BG is destroying wvw or just another unecessary crying in the forums.

    *reads in forum "wvw is dead!" *logged in to see SOS dueling some BG and DB lads. Stayed and join dools until almost an hour. Not sure if wvw is dead or this forum is full of unecessary crying.

    dance

    *reads in forum "wvw is dead!" * Logs in on my timezone on reset night my time (ocx) and no server in T1 has a commander.

    Lmao do you need a commander to flip camp or a tower? Or open field pug skirmishes even?

    you dont need to but it is fun to have one. because ppl play more if there is a focal point.

    Not Even Coverage is the Only broken thing in WVW.

  • morrolan.9608morrolan.9608 Member ✭✭✭

    @Eremes Guile.1480 said:

    @morrolan.9608 said:

    @Eremes Guile.1480 said:
    *reads in forum "wvw is dead" *logged in during reset and saw orange sword. SOS zerg fight with BG. Not sure if wvw is dead or just some unecessary crying in the forums.

    *reads in forum "BG is outnumbering every server and is destroying the game" *logged in to see if DB and SOS keeps in eb gets permanently paper or not. Nope they held it t3 until the end of the match. Not sure if BG is destroying wvw or just another unecessary crying in the forums.

    *reads in forum "wvw is dead!" *logged in to see SOS dueling some BG and DB lads. Stayed and join dools until almost an hour. Not sure if wvw is dead or this forum is full of unecessary crying.

    dance

    *reads in forum "wvw is dead!" * Logs in on my timezone on reset night my time (ocx) and no server in T1 has a commander.

    Lmao do you need a commander to flip camp or a tower? Or open field pug skirmishes even?

    You're missing the point or deliberately ignoring it.

  • I keep seeing posts anout server populations. They all revolve around the same thing. "I dont like losing/winning all the time please predict and fix on a costant bases the inconsistencies of an entirely player-driven problem"

    I suggest 2. Or make a 4th option where you are responsible for finding people to play in wvw. Anet could just log ppl directly into wvw, they could entice people with more rewards. These are terrible ideas and Im sure Anet could manufacture a hundred ways to get people into wvw and all would have unintended consequences. Please stop asking Anet to fix your problems.

  • Xillllix.3485Xillllix.3485 Member ✭✭✭

    Can't you just merge everything in 3 factions and let me play with or against my friends? It needs tweaking (maybe more ebg maps instances and adding eotm to WvW score) but seriously it's a shame not being able to play with friends in a MMO.

  • @PabbyGaul.9682 said:
    I keep seeing posts anout server populations. They all revolve around the same thing. "I dont like losing/winning all the time please predict and fix on a costant bases the inconsistencies of an entirely player-driven problem"
    Please stop asking Anet to fix your problems.

    It's not about winning or loosing, It's about not having a competition at all.. and thats what wvw is all about.. competing against others.. It's not because you get outnumbered during the whole week.. i actually feel kinda sorry for our enemies because we CANT fight or Split push against them.. if i had to play without enemies i would not see any benefit in playing wvw at all.. i.e. you dont dont play chess as long theres no one to play against..

    Best
    B.

  • Loosmaster.8263Loosmaster.8263 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Xillllix.3485 said:
    Can't you just merge everything in 3 factions and let me play with or against my friends? It needs tweaking (maybe more ebg maps instances and adding eotm to WvW score) but seriously it's a shame not being able to play with friends in a MMO.

    You can already do that depending on your current server color in EotM. Generally as an mmo with Megaserver you can play any time you want with your friends in PvE.

    I don't see a problem...

    Fàther - Create a mount then kill it until it's more useless than PvE. "Smart"
    Tactical Killers
    Server(DR)

  • Jana.6831Jana.6831 Member ✭✭✭

    @Basti.3698 said:
    (OP)

    GW2 lost it when it comes to especially wvw but PvP is suffering as well as far as I know. All of what you describe are the symptoms of a very bad balance. And by that I don't mean population wise. We did get along pretty fine before the merges, even the lowest servers. If people were more into roaming they chose the lower tiers, if they wanted blobfights they went to gold. That isn't anymore. The population of this game was declining because there is no profession balance, as far as I know there's no good other large scale pvp game out there.
    They tried to fix it with the pips but a large influx of PvE players always hurts more than it helps - plus trying to learn anything about combat/wvw is rather moot.
    Also: You can't really force anyone to play, no matter how good your population estimation programs work: there will always be population imbalance. The fix for it would be to make smaller with skill = equal with larger and no skill. but we've had that in the past and people didn't want to learn.
    In the end: It is what it is and it's unlikely to change.
    My buddies and I left because there's no balance and it's therefore no fun to play, not because the game is ageing.

    the gentle art of making enemies.

  • I play WvW on Elona and we have the same problems, many other servers have. We dont have enough ppl to be successfull. So where is the Problem? I guess the Problem is, that the game is getting older and older, ppl stop playing this game and wvw is the game mode which is suffering the most! So my suggestion is, Anet has to close some servers and transfer its players to the other servers. I know very well that anet is earning a lot of Money with this transfers of ppl and guilds. But Anet has to decide what is more important, earning money and let servers like elona die (elona is just a synonyme for the german community) or they start to concentrate all active ppl on only a few servers, maybe with new names. The terrible Serverlinkings already destroyed most server identitys, so where is the problem to close the lowest ones?! Maybe its hard in the first months, but it will help to bring success back in this gamemode. Anet pls be not so greedy and give the right impulse to get us back in good times!

    Yours sincerely Consta :3

  • Go back to the original GW HoH model for server wars and bring GvG into the game

  • @Chris Cleary.8017 said:
    This is something that we are having chats internally about quite often. Essentially server population is a self perpetuating problem and layer on top of that problem region specific time zone population density and you end up in a situation like we have right now. It's not an easy problem to solve, and not a quick one. I can't yet comment on potential outcomes of the internal discussions, however I can comment specifically about this situation in EU.

    With BB topping participation and Kodash surging this week, the difference between the Worlds in 3rd and 9nd (for participation) is only between 5% and 15%. That's actually a good spread if those worlds matched up against eachother... however.... BB isn't listed as FULL and Kodash is. The idea of "Full" server status can mean a number of things, but mostly it's in attempt to balance WvW populations so that servers that get matched together have a equal paying field of participation. That's clearly not working if BB isn't FULL atm when it should be.

    I'll dig into it significantly more over the next few days (on the population/Server Status situation as a whole). Ideally I'd like at least server status updated (and working properly) before the winter break, but it might happen after. Solving the overarching self perpetuation of population unbalance is a larger issue to tackle, that's not a "soon" thing.

    is there a way to determine each player's most active hours then recommend servers with similar time or pool them into that time so all servers are active?

  • @morrolan.9608 said:

    @Pretty Pixie.8603 said:
    Previous RvR games have shown that just two or three factions lead to one faction being stacked and dominating the other ones. No one likes to be on the losing team. Populations aren't a fixed thing, new players join, old one takes break or retire. Unless you manually assign populations, this will remain a likely problem, and manually assigning populations come with a heap of problems of their own.

    This does not happen with ESO.

    No it does not. However ZOS, don't monetize their Alliance War mode at all. ZOS also balances ESO from a PvP perspective. ESO is also nowhere near a casual MMO. ZOS also actively communicate and supports it's Alliance War mode.

    Also the biggest one is. Numbers and coverage which Daggerfall Covenant has in droves over the Ebonheart Pact, does not give it a sure win due to actual in place game mechanics. They do everything omni faction blob, nightcap, and every time to time use cheat engine in mass. Yet they have not won a single 30 day campaign in the last 3 or 4 months.

    Dev teams in other MMOs are taking clear notes from ANet. On how not to run their RvR-like modes.

    I am the one and only true Majestic Being.
    I stand now on the precipice of change.
    My perceptions on quality is refined.
    I am now the outsider looking in.
    Next level simi profession troll at your service.
    Bring the lols like no other.

  • Basti.3698Basti.3698 Member ✭✭
    edited December 20, 2017

    So,
    New Linkings on Friday 22. Lets see if there are any changes to the population calculation...
    Did ANET announce any other dates for WvW-Updates?

    I like that many new discussions connect to ideas we mentioned in here... at least people are talking to each other..

    ... praying for changes

    Best,
    B.

  • @Lithril Ashwalker.6230 said:

    @Chris Cleary.8017 said:
    This is something that we are having chats internally about quite often. Essentially server population is a self perpetuating problem and layer on top of that problem region specific time zone population density and you end up in a situation like we have right now. It's not an easy problem to solve, and not a quick one. I can't yet comment on potential outcomes of the internal discussions, however I can comment specifically about this situation in EU.

    With BB topping participation and Kodash surging this week, the difference between the Worlds in 3rd and 9nd (for participation) is only between 5% and 15%. That's actually a good spread if those worlds matched up against eachother... however.... BB isn't listed as FULL and Kodash is. The idea of "Full" server status can mean a number of things, but mostly it's in attempt to balance WvW populations so that servers that get matched together have a equal paying field of participation. That's clearly not working if BB isn't FULL atm when it should be.

    I'll dig into it significantly more over the next few days (on the population/Server Status situation as a whole). Ideally I'd like at least server status updated (and working properly) before the winter break, but it might happen after. Solving the overarching self perpetuation of population unbalance is a larger issue to tackle, that's not a "soon" thing.

    is there a way to determine each player's most active hours then recommend servers with similar time or pool them into that time so all servers are active?

    See my thread here: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/21469/idea-to-help-population-balance#latest

  • thanks for messing EU linkings up.... Not that it was good before but the fact that higher Tier Server getting linked while T5 server unlinked and full........ I actually interpret this as an attempt to close our world..not even mad about it, just hurry before you loose the last players down here.. Im not jealous at higher servers, but i don't see the consistency in here..

  • atheria.2837atheria.2837 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 30, 2017

    "so that servers that get matched together have a equal playing field of participation. "

    This, specifically, is not happening.

    If the numbers were 'equal' not many would be concerned about the state of WvW.

    50vs25 isn't 'equal'.

    10v2 isn't 'equal'.

    I will be waiting for a true resolution and some help for WvW.

    One way to help, now, is to undo the links.

    They are disallow loyalty to not only servers, but also to people.

    One can't get to know anyone even in an MMO in two months.

    The links were a mistake - and they do harm WvW as much as the inequity of numbers.

    *addendum When a server can hold all properties of one server and never touches the other - something is amiss. Very amiss. I have screenshots galore if
    anyone needs to see a 'not equal' participation set of maps.

    The links, if they were to be done 'correctly', all links would have the opposite 'problem' that the server it is linked to has; if Server A has a 'low daytime' population, the B linked server should have a 'low nighttime' population.

    As it is, the links add to an already bad problem of 'time zone' inequality.

    And in the case of BG? How about putting adding servers, one at a time, into one pot, and see who comes out on top if they are never to be challenged in any way...

  • Reset Night... loosing +50 against 250 tick.. Ty ANET

  • Sovereign.1093Sovereign.1093 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Basti.3698 said:
    Reset Night... loosing +50 against 250 tick.. Ty ANET

    guess jq still tanking.

    Not Even Coverage is the Only broken thing in WVW.

  • So far can i personally only see 2 solutions to rebalance the population of servers. But both probably not a single person will like. From Community itself, by people willingly to spread over the servers. Something we all know it would never ever happen, because alot of people will follow other people (Bandwagoners). So this solution is out, but leaves the other solution only. A recalculation of server populations, reducing amount of servers and force transferring people to spread them on the left servers. Then lock up servers, to avoid population inbalances. That again can not happen aswell, people will mock up, overload the forums with rageposts and finally make them leave the game. I have a hard time finding a better solution then those i called and i don't like these ideas aswell.

  • Can't Anet just make wvw more about something else? say... more about guilds? This will fix the 'my toon is from another server, we can't play wvw together' problem.
    Give guilds the option to choose from 3 factions, you already have those - Vigil, Priory, Whispers. To lessen bandwagon mentality, limit the factions by the number of guilds, and the guilds by the number of their members. Reset the faction every week or so - you would have a dynamic population for wvw.

    What about loyalty? That's what the guilds are for. Anet can definitely cook some upgrades/improvement/advantage from being with a 'tenured' guild. Reward guilds depending on how their faction during the matchup perform (you can put your skins, wvw unique rewards here - even customize them depending on faction). Anet can even add a rank-ladder of some sort.

    I agree about merging NA and EU for wvw, that will definitely solve some timezone problems. Also, they can add in a 'decay' system to objectives. Say if an objective does not get any influx of people within given time, it gets a penalty. Anet can make this happen thru events, like supply runs, repairs, etc. They already have those incorporated with Guild missions. My point with this suggestion is: if a faction is so stacked during a given timezone, unless they really have good coverage all day, they won't be able to keep the upgraded objectives vs factions that may have a thin coverage. E.g. Vigil is stacked during NA but is thin during SEA, Priory who has decent NA will still be able to give Vigil a hard time capping but lose nonetheless during NA but if they have more during SEA vs Vigil then they will be able to get some ppt in during that time even with less people due to the decay. On the other hand, Whispers who has an overall decent coverage all day, will give the other factions a hard time during their prime and will be able to get some ppt during their downtime.

    I am no expert but IMO this will also make the game live up to its name - Guild Wars.

  • Sovereign.1093Sovereign.1093 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Seis.4736 said:
    Can't Anet just make wvw more about something else? say... more about guilds? This will fix the 'my toon is from another server, we can't play wvw together' problem.
    Give guilds the option to choose from 3 factions, you already have those - Vigil, Priory, Whispers. To lessen bandwagon mentality, limit the factions by the number of guilds, and the guilds by the number of their members. Reset the faction every week or so - you would have a dynamic population for wvw.

    What about loyalty? That's what the guilds are for. Anet can definitely cook some upgrades/improvement/advantage from being with a 'tenured' guild. Reward guilds depending on how their faction during the matchup perform (you can put your skins, wvw unique rewards here - even customize them depending on faction). Anet can even add a rank-ladder of some sort.

    I agree about merging NA and EU for wvw, that will definitely solve some timezone problems. Also, they can add in a 'decay' system to objectives. Say if an objective does not get any influx of people within given time, it gets a penalty. Anet can make this happen thru events, like supply runs, repairs, etc. They already have those incorporated with Guild missions. My point with this suggestion is: if a faction is so stacked during a given timezone, unless they really have good coverage all day, they won't be able to keep the upgraded objectives vs factions that may have a thin coverage. E.g. Vigil is stacked during NA but is thin during SEA, Priory who has decent NA will still be able to give Vigil a hard time capping but lose nonetheless during NA but if they have more during SEA vs Vigil then they will be able to get some ppt in during that time even with less people due to the decay. On the other hand, Whispers who has an overall decent coverage all day, will give the other factions a hard time during their prime and will be able to get some ppt during their downtime.

    I am no expert but IMO this will also make the game live up to its name - Guild Wars.

    why not. hope they beta test this.

    Not Even Coverage is the Only broken thing in WVW.

  • Woaden.9425Woaden.9425 Member
    edited December 31, 2017

    The problem with "World vs World vs World" is and will always be the concept of 'servers vs servers'. It's stuck on semantics.

    Is the core concept of WvW "server vs server", or is it massive open area pvp? Server vs Server (or groups of servers) is not engaging, as seen by the massive transfers that have been a tail the devs have chased since release.

    GvG should exist, as goes the common refrain: Isn't this "Guild Wars"? The massive maps in which we can pick and choose our desired PVP style (raid, roam, gank, etc) should exist, yes. Server vs server? Why? Who cares?

    The core concept, IMO, is massive pvp, it has nothing to do with 'worlds/servers'. Trying to solve the problem from that viewpoint will never succeed; the players simply don't care about server loyalty, and why should they? I log on to WvW to find action, to be able to casually PvP without a timer, so that I can AFK for a phonecall or to take out the trash without bringing my team down or being accosted for not 'playing right'. I do it so I can come up with wacky builds and have a great time all while competing against other players. Other players play it for other reasons, and that's great! But I'd bet a dollar they don't play it out of a sense of arbitrary server pride (which we all did try to embrace in the early days, for sure, but... c'mon).

    Big maps with a bunch of pugs mixed with guilds, capturing strategic locations and battling for street cred on a big map? Absolutely! Start from there, solve problems that make that possible. Ditch the concept of servers in massive PVP altogether.

    And yes, I realize this concept has been toyed with in EoTM, and like all half-measures it was doomed to mediocre results (at best). Don't half-kitten two mega-map pvp concepts, whole kitten one.

  • ToPNoP.2493ToPNoP.2493 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 31, 2017

    Maybe kdr should play a bigger role in points. This would be better to stop servers from tanking because they just want to attack players in mass. The strongest can go to the top with the populations that can resist their fight easier. It is rumored that some servers purposely tank to get the easier fights, I feel this erodes already weaker servers by demoralizing zergs before they can gain momentum. Holding towers is kinda boring, maybe weaken the walls a little on towers that don't have a waypoint, that way the population can feel like they are progressing more.

    Yes I like comms, but sadly I'm allergic to them.

  • Sovereign.1093Sovereign.1093 Member ✭✭✭✭

    just kills. because of the ratio, some decide to hide.

    Not Even Coverage is the Only broken thing in WVW.

  • Kamara.4187Kamara.4187 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 1, 2018

    Anet must really like whatever its doing on the cash side because any real meaningful change to server/team balance (which has been screamed from the roof tops by the player base for 2 years at the least) hasn't been touched other than to lock servers...Servers which have no point in any other aspect of the game except in wvw with the introduction of the super-server...which btw hasn't been all that super for the wvw game mode.

    Wvw has been hobbling along. Its broken at its core by not addressing server migration, and the introduction of the super server. Truth be told migration was also a player driven problem before the super server.

    Its true there is no real meaning behind doing wvw other than we are all nuts for the game mode.WvW doesn't even fit in with any of the lore or storylines. It is considered that little by development yet it is closer to the competitive roots of the original "GUILD WARS". The reward changes were nice but not even close to what can be achieved in pve in terms of gold, and materials. It is better, but still pretty stingy.

    As far as being an old game? That really don't matter until someone kicks out a winning mmo. Until then people will play GW2 till that something better comes along, or the next rage quit which can last days, months, or years, till they drift back.

    Unless Anet can be prompted to rethink wvw I don't see the players fixing anything. Sadly I see them continuing to server-stack and face roll till they cannibalize all the smaller servers and roamers in the race for coverage.

    "Love thy enemy, for without them there would be no WvW."

  • morrolan.9608morrolan.9608 Member ✭✭✭

    @Sabre.8251 said:
    So far can i personally only see 2 solutions to rebalance the population of servers. But both probably not a single person will like.

    It can move to being a more alliance based system. Their battlegroup proposal thats been talked about was along those lines.

  • Redponey.8352Redponey.8352 Member ✭✭✭

    Hi here,

    As Commander and player on national server ,
    Linking to rebalance the population was a good mecanism until the 2th linkage, where we lost most of our population for higher server. We went from mid-top tier from the bottom with this.

    To rebalance population ,this might be good if we are just looking at number of player that connect on WvW. But actually this system destroy most of all WvW Communities through put and remove or switching server. Theses communities were created during 3 years, now there are ash and dust.

    WvW population will always be unbalanced ( some people want to play with less people , others want to zerg etc...). Trying absolutly to balanced without any regard on WvW communities as a whole might be a mistake. (I think, it was)

    I think that the most important part of WvW is communities (that will keep and bring people to play WvW) and challenging part (Tournament were great).
    Actually, we lost most of WvW communities , Forums (not GW2) are dead, new player will not get involve or less involve than before.
    Current WvW player get bored to not have challenge ( to be in top tier or bottom tier is the same except the fact ennemies are different) and leave the Game.

    Creating a GvG system would be great if it would be done as soon as possible. (Twitch streaming GvG etc would be great to give good entertainment to people and others)
    (I remember Team Aggression [TA] Vs [LaG] Callous Philosophy, Obsidian sanctum were full and with Q , we were easily more than 500 people to watch the stream)

    I can give some idea , i hope that Anet will read this.

    I propose, is to stop linkage system and put each server is alone. After that, offer to everyone a 1 free migration ticket for "mid population server"
    This may attract guilds to leave higher tier to lesser tier.
    With this i would have bring some idea that will keep guilds on mid server:
    -Increase from 1 to 2 or 3 weeks, the migration possibility
    -Bring some challenging guild achievement ( killing xx or xxx K during 1-2months, Capture and upgrade xxxx structure during 1-2 months etc)
    Finishing this achievements will reward guilds (member of this guild) with special loots (WvW armor/weapons skin, hall stuff and an exclusive emote for 1-2 month (as /Guild /Ladder in GW1)

    • Put season( as PvP season) (4-5 seasons/year) instead of month as i spoke earlier. (Winter , Spring , Summer and Autumn would have been great)
      With this , some challenging conditions could be bring to create more diversity of gameplay. (as Gw1 PvP has) something like " when you die , you will put down a package that will give a random buff" or " when you die , a minions appear" etc....

    All We ask from anet now is to do something. Not only check stats... We need you ANET to get involve in your WvW Mode!! :)

    Thanks for reading ,
    You may apologize my english...

  • Basti.3698Basti.3698 Member ✭✭
    edited January 3, 2018

    @Redponey.8352 said:

    Creating a GvG system would be great if it would be done as soon as possible. (Twitch streaming GvG etc would be great to give good entertainment to people and others)
    (I remember Team Aggression [TA] Vs [LaG] Callous Philosophy, Obsidian sanctum were full and with Q , we were easily more than 500 people to watch the stream)
    I can give some idea , i hope that Anet will read this.

    These were some nice fights. I also like the idea of GvG in the way it was in Guild Wars1 , but in Guild Wars 2 not implemented in WvW well still face the risk of loosing more people to GvG

    I agree with you that a more accurate population calculation in combination with free trans to mid-pop Server would help the momentum.

    Greets

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