Condi is destroying the game. — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Condi is destroying the game.

Zenral.3958Zenral.3958 Member ✭✭
edited December 8, 2017 in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

It has even begun to leak into PvE where even the ordinary Awakening in Istan can dot you to death a spell or two. So what do you think, has condi grown out of control now and should finally be addressed, or should Anet continue buffing it like they've done since they pretty much released the game?

Comments

  • Where did you hear they are toning it down?

  • ardhikaizecson.3697ardhikaizecson.3697 Member ✭✭
    edited December 8, 2017

    eventhough condition damage focused playstyle is really fun and most of my raid character is geared for condi damage, it is really unfun if you are the victim of condi itself, I understand if boss like Mai Trin in fractal inflict painful bleeding stack she was the end boss and legendary ranked, but I just dont understand a veteran awakened mobs able to one shot me to dead with condi, as for condi meta situation in pvp, i'm an average player looking to play for fun in pvp and I died in a matter of 3 seconds because of the condi burst scourge and mirage inflict on me, it was unranked and my choice of gear, spec, skill and runes were supposed to make me tanky and yet I died too quickly because of the condi, just 2 matches after a long time and I said goodbye to pvp and back to pve. i remember i had fun in pvp back then when condi werent this strong, just my 2 cent though.

  • @BrokenGlass.9356 said:
    Where did you hear they are toning it down?

    I think he is referring to https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/19600/upcoming-wintersday-balance-update#latest
    Which sounds more to me to be a tradeoff for longer lasting condi's that are less harsh. It still requires condition removal, but you got more time to do so before you are out.

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 8, 2017

    This is a complete non-issue in PvE, you dont even need to run any cleansing. Compared to WvW, mobs dont have anywhere near the condi pressure of even the dumbest of condi scourges and we fight them 50% of the time. A WvW build literally laughs at PvE condi, both in application and cleansing. Its PvErs own choice to be such weaklings.

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  • I personally don't see any problem with the mobs in Istan, even the Veteran Mordant Crescent Arbiters. Yes they stack a lot of conditions on you, but this just means you have to bring a little more cleansing in your kit. Really though I consider this a good thing as it brings PvE and PvP closer, making it easier to crossover from 1 to the other.

  • Gulesave.5073Gulesave.5073 Member ✭✭
    edited December 8, 2017

    The whole thing about conditions is that they can be cleansed before they do most of their damage. So, ya know...bring some cleansing. Maybe resistance if you've got it.

    If you don't like needing to adapt your build to what's thrown at you, wow, you would hate GW1.

  • saerni.2584saerni.2584 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Post your build and people can suggest how to add in cleanse to survive the mobs you are having difficulty with.

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  • Honestly, the changes coming in that winter's day patch look great.

    Now if they'd make enemies in PvE cast boons on themselves, and apply conditions... So that you require some of those pvp survival traits and cleanses.... THEN, we'd be onto something.

  • yeah, i feel like in the power meta, at least in pvp I had to watch out and dodge, block, evade or whatever a couple of strong spikes, but i had enough defenses as long as i payed attention and played well. With the condi meta there are so many applications of conditions that its not a matter of avoiding a couple of spikes/combos because they don't end. one can only cleanse so many conditions when there almost seems like no down time between these condition applications. In general, that last statement is what conditions are supposed to be about, unrelenting DoT that will eventually win out. But there is too much spike damage. Builds should be either condi spikes, or continuous condi dps, but it seems the top condi builds have both. Hopefully they fix this a bit. Bring some power builds into the meta that require timing and more technical skill.

  • Zenral.3958Zenral.3958 Member ✭✭
    edited December 8, 2017

    @Gulesave.5073 said:
    The whole thing about conditions is that they can be cleansed before they do most of their damage. So, ya know...bring some cleansing. Maybe resistance if you've got it.

    If you don't like needing to adapt your build to what's thrown at you, wow, you would hate GW1.

    I wouldn't address this if the condi-cleansing skills were sufficent enough to grant me at the very least a chance to counter the attack, but that doesn't seem to be the case anymore, I can't literally play certain classes due to this.

  • Arzurag.7506Arzurag.7506 Member ✭✭✭

    @Dethh.4620 said:
    The upcoming balance patch ia toning it down a bit. In fact I think they're finally making condi what it should of been in the first place. Damage that ramps up over time, not large bursts. However, I don't understand the general perception of condi damage to begin with, why does it matter where the damage is coming ? It's all just numbers either way you look at it.

    A sword that doesn´t hit you, deals no damage (if the range is not bugged like it usually is)
    An icon right to your health-bar can damage you, wether a weapon hits you perpetually or not, which makes it kinda odd.

    "I´m not big on sermons nor words, Broken bones teach better lessons and speak for themselves."

  • Mahou.3924Mahou.3924 Member ✭✭✭

    @Dawdler.8521 said:
    This is a complete non-issue in PvE, you dont even need to run any cleansing. Compared to WvW, mobs dont have anywhere near the condi pressure of even the dumbest of condi scourges and we fight them 50% of the time. A WvW build literally laughs at PvE condi, both in application and cleansing. Its PvErs own choice to be such weaklings.

    Such trash statements won't help ANYONE.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Arzurag.7506 said:

    @Dethh.4620 said:
    The upcoming balance patch ia toning it down a bit. In fact I think they're finally making condi what it should of been in the first place. Damage that ramps up over time, not large bursts. However, I don't understand the general perception of condi damage to begin with, why does it matter where the damage is coming ? It's all just numbers either way you look at it.

    A sword that doesn´t hit you, deals no damage (if the range is not bugged like it usually is)
    An icon right to your health-bar can damage you, wether a weapon hits you perpetually or not, which makes it kinda odd.

    Ah, but an attack that doesn't hit you won't cause that icon to appear. And if it hits, it won't cause more damage than if you were hit by a power attack. It's just that in case of the power attack all the damage is instant, while condis will keep ticking for a few seconds before they cause their full damage payload, giving you time to prevent some of it.

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  • @BrokenGlass.9356 said:
    Honestly, the changes coming in that winter's day patch look great.

    Now if they'd make enemies in PvE cast boons on themselves, and apply conditions... So that you require some of those pvp survival traits and cleanses.... THEN, we'd be onto something.

    They do. I've noticed a lot of various enemies, such as awakened, cast boons on themselves, like protection, when hitting them with ranged attacks or just generally attacking them. On top of some of them putting conditions on me.

  • @Charrbeque.8729 said:

    @BrokenGlass.9356 said:
    Honestly, the changes coming in that winter's day patch look great.

    Now if they'd make enemies in PvE cast boons on themselves, and apply conditions... So that you require some of those pvp survival traits and cleanses.... THEN, we'd be onto something.

    They do. I've noticed a lot of various enemies, such as awakened, cast boons on themselves, like protection, when hitting them with ranged attacks or just generally attacking them. On top of some of them putting conditions on me.

    That's a start... But I haven't felt the need to include boon stripping or cleanse in my pve builds.... So they could ramp it up.

  • DeceiverX.8361DeceiverX.8361 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Mahou.3924 said:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:
    This is a complete non-issue in PvE, you dont even need to run any cleansing. Compared to WvW, mobs dont have anywhere near the condi pressure of even the dumbest of condi scourges and we fight them 50% of the time. A WvW build literally laughs at PvE condi, both in application and cleansing. Its PvErs own choice to be such weaklings.

    Such trash statements won't help ANYONE.

    It's pretty simple. Modern WvW tactic is to just bring every cleanse that can pretty much be selected without completely butchering your build concept. Conditions are so potent it's more worthwhile to bring cleanses than stunbreaks because usually the DoT kills so quickly there's no point in breaking the CC as it is.

    By WvW standards, if that means a 30% loss in damage for three or four more cleanses, it's worth it most of the time.

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  • Kirin.7306Kirin.7306 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 9, 2017

    aw heck. is my shortbow thief gonna be nerfed? it takes 5 casts to get my poison to 2k lol.

    fml.

  • Yes it has, I literally switched off a server because all the opposing server did was rush and what I know call condi-bomb. Even with many condi-removals we couldn't do much.

  • Razor.6392Razor.6392 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Pifil.5193 said:

    @Dethh.4620 said:
    The upcoming balance patch ia toning it down a bit. In fact I think they're finally making condi what it should of been in the first place. Damage that ramps up over time, not large bursts. However, I don't understand the general perception of condi damage to begin with, why does it matter where the damage is coming ? It's all just numbers either way you look at it.

    Yep, I don't personally feel like there's any difference between being two shot by power attacks or being two shot by condition applying attacks. Apart from the fact that the conditions take longer to actually kill you, of course. Everyone needs a villain, I suppose.

    Long debilitating conditions like long cripples or long immobilises are far more annoying for me.

    I'll tell you the difference: Condi users are usually MUCH tankier and sacrifice less to achieve that level of burst damage. A DoT build should NEVER BURST. It's one of the things they are supposed to sacrifice.

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  • @Pifil.5193 said:

    @Dethh.4620 said:
    The upcoming balance patch ia toning it down a bit. In fact I think they're finally making condi what it should of been in the first place. Damage that ramps up over time, not large bursts. However, I don't understand the general perception of condi damage to begin with, why does it matter where the damage is coming ? It's all just numbers either way you look at it.

    Yep, I don't personally feel like there's any difference between being two shot by power attacks or being two shot by condition applying attacks. Apart from the fact that the conditions take longer to actually kill you, of course. Everyone needs a villain, I suppose.

    Long debilitating conditions like long cripples or long immobilises are far more annoying for me.

    Condition does not take longer to kill you :p. Plus you shouldn't be able to hit like truck with power and condition. Its one or the other.
    The other problem is, unless you're designed to to remove condi, you don't have a chance. The power creep is real. Toughness and vitality need to start scaling with it too

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  • Arzurag.7506Arzurag.7506 Member ✭✭✭

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Arzurag.7506 said:

    @Dethh.4620 said:
    The upcoming balance patch ia toning it down a bit. In fact I think they're finally making condi what it should of been in the first place. Damage that ramps up over time, not large bursts. However, I don't understand the general perception of condi damage to begin with, why does it matter where the damage is coming ? It's all just numbers either way you look at it.

    A sword that doesn´t hit you, deals no damage (if the range is not bugged like it usually is)
    An icon right to your health-bar can damage you, wether a weapon hits you perpetually or not, which makes it kinda odd.

    Ah, but an attack that doesn't hit you won't cause that icon to appear. And if it hits, it won't cause more damage than if you were hit by a power attack. It's just that in case of the power attack all the damage is instant, while condis will keep ticking for a few seconds before they cause their full damage payload, giving you time to prevent some of it.

    I mean hitting literally, if I swing my scepter, I don´t hit my opponent, if a necro raises his hand to cast, he doesn´t hit his opponent.
    What I mean is, that it feels odd when invisible actions cause damage.
    You can see the arrow, you can see the sword, for me personally it is strange that something that you can´t really see, causes so much damage.

    Probably I can´t describe the problem I have with conditions, maybe the next patch solves one major issue, that conditions can deal overall more damage in a few seconds than power can. (Exceptions are possible but aberrations verify the rule)

    "I´m not big on sermons nor words, Broken bones teach better lessons and speak for themselves."

  • mulzi.8273mulzi.8273 Member ✭✭✭

    @mercury ranique.2170 said:

    @BrokenGlass.9356 said:
    Where did you hear they are toning it down?

    I think he is referring to https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/19600/upcoming-wintersday-balance-update#latest
    Which sounds more to me to be a tradeoff for longer lasting condi's that are less harsh. It still requires condition removal, but you got more time to do so before you are out.

    unfortunately this change wont do much. Granted, the condi bomb is ridiculus right now, but the main culprit of that are zergs in wvw spamming aoe condi's like its candy on halloween. Until they address some skills/classes that can apply multiple condis instantly at once, and with little to no cooldowns (eg. condi mez and scourge) and the boon corruption into 7 different conditions, its not going to do much. Condi clears cannot keep up, in wvw, in pve, etc.

  • AliamRationem.5172AliamRationem.5172 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Nick Lentz.6982 said:
    I mean hitting literally, if I swing my scepter, I don´t hit my opponent, if a necro raises his hand to cast, he doesn´t hit his opponent.
    What I mean is, that it feels odd when invisible actions cause damage.
    You can see the arrow, you can see the sword, for me personally it is strange that something that you can´t really see, causes so much damage.

    Probably I can´t describe the problem I have with conditions, maybe the next patch solves one major issue, that conditions can deal overall more damage in a few seconds than power can. (Exceptions are possible but aberrations verify the rule)

    The attack that delivered the original condition is no different than any other. You can see it and evade it. But once that condition is applied, it's going to deal it's damage unless you do something about it.

    Condi burst wouldn't be an issue if we had a split between PvE and PvP/WvW. I just don't see how you're going to balance damage in a game mode where ramping up to 10k+ DPS in <10s is perfectly reasonable with game modes where you attack players that can't survive more than a couple of seconds against that kind of damage. I recognize that players have counter skills and that full glass builds don't typically do very well in PvP/WvW, but I think the problem is still obvious.

  • Crossaber.8934Crossaber.8934 Member ✭✭✭

    We need condition cap seriously, the game was designed with condi cap in mind, and it is the only reason condi was not OP pre HoT anywhere with pvp involved.

    I believe the cap should be there for player receive side but applier side should still receive full credit for taking down a target even his condition did not actually doing damage because of cap.

    Cross

  • Rennie.6750Rennie.6750 Member ✭✭✭

    Incoming condi damage is far more forgiving than power... The irony...

  • I've found my most successful builds on PoF maps have a ton of self heal and cleanse built in to them. Sure, fights might take a little longer, but even when fighting 10+ by myself they can't seem to put enough damage into me.

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  • Hyper Cutter.9376Hyper Cutter.9376 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Crossaber.8934 said:
    We need condition cap seriously, the game was designed with condi cap in mind, and it is the only reason condi was not OP pre HoT anywhere with pvp involved.

    I believe the cap should be there for player receive side but applier side should still receive full credit for taking down a target even his condition did not actually doing damage because of cap.

    The cap was removed for a reason, condition builds were literally useless in most of the game until then.

  • Crossaber.8934Crossaber.8934 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 10, 2017

    @Hyper Cutter.9376 said:

    @Crossaber.8934 said:
    We need condition cap seriously, the game was designed with condi cap in mind, and it is the only reason condi was not OP pre HoT anywhere with pvp involved.

    I believe the cap should be there for player receive side but applier side should still receive full credit for taking down a target even his condition did not actually doing damage because of cap.

    The cap was removed for a reason, condition builds were literally useless in most of the game until then.

    But the removal of cap did hurt the game a lot especially on pvp side. I think we need the cap back but a different way.

    Hard condition cap by each individual applier. For example if 3 stack burn cap for each applier, 3 applier still make 9 stack burn on the same target, this way can help limit the burst potential of conditions. I believe the cap will be much easier way for anet to balance out power and condition output.

    Cross

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