Anet, about the cashing-out you mentioned in recent WvW clarification post.

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/19921/wvw-frequently-asked-questions"......Q. Why can’t we cash out participation?A: Cashing out has many complications and does not address the primary reason that players suggest it: AFKing. It is impossible to predict all the rewards someone would earn because we cannot predict if a map will become outnumbered or if your world’s placement would change. We would somehow need to make cashing out rewards as good as the rewards you would get if you were still playing. If the rewards are not as good, people would still AFK, and if we made the rewards too good then everyone would just constantly cash out........"

Allow me to disagree on this part, IMO, even if people won't get full reward but only a reward locked at when they left (not counting outnubered and any other buff they could get) they will still leave maps or at least a big part of AFKers will do if a system of cashing out existed.

@"Zaraki.5784" said:https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/19921/wvw-frequently-asked-questions"......Q. Why can’t we cash out participation?A: Cashing out has many complications and does not address the primary reason that players suggest it: AFKing. It is impossible to predict all the rewards someone would earn because we cannot predict if a map will become outnumbered or if your world’s placement would change. We would somehow need to make cashing out rewards as good as the rewards you would get if you were still playing. If the rewards are not as good, people would still AFK, and if we made the rewards too good then everyone would just constantly cash out........"

Allow me to disagree on this part, IMO, even if people won't get full reward but only a reward locked at when they left (not counting outnubered and any other buff they could get) they will still leave maps or at least a big part of AFKers will do if a system of cashing out existed.

No the devs are right, if players are simply allowed to "cash out" immediately they will just get participation up and log out and will be able to get full upcoming rewards without actually having played for them. Since participation will remain on an account for a little while even after logging out, a player can greatly abuse it, by simply doing this over and over.

To add to the above, they may be able to code it, but honestly, I'd rather them keep tweaking skills for balance.

@Strider Pj.2193 said:To add to the above, they may be able to code it, but honestly, I'd rather them keep tweaking skills for balance.

Balance please as well

Sounds like a better idea would be to reduce the "tail time" and make the decay ratio. Basically make you get a bit more rewards while it is active, but make it go away faster, so you can't just sit and wait it out.

It would make people have to be more active, and not reward afk'ing. win win.

just add a debuff once you cashout that blocks participation gain for the duration of the participation you had before you cashed out.

@"joneirikb.7506" said:Sounds like a better idea would be to reduce the "tail time" and make the decay ratio. Basically make you get a bit more rewards while it is active, but make it go away faster, so you can't just sit and wait it out.

It would make people have to be more active, and not reward afk'ing. win win.

Problem with that is people scouting and sieging up lose partipation too quick. I already have sometimes when sieging up for too long i start to lose participation. I know building sieging shouldnt give it as it's easily abused but i like to at least have some time to build it!

First world problems, if you want to be rewarded for the participation you think you have banked, then spend your time in WvW to attain the rewards, the point is you have to SPEND YOUR TIME to get them, you have not earned those rewards in advance, so you do not deserve an early cashout.

To be honest, I do not understand what is the problem with cashing out. All the participation can be just removed when a player selects this option. Then the player gets all the reward they would get (assuming that the situation will not change, e.g. no outnumbered bonus unless it's already there etc). To prevent any abuse, the player could get a debuff that doesn't allow them to enter WvW for X minutes (depending on the player's participation).

Every day after playing WvW I have to wait for 15+ minutes in one of the WvW maps just to get all my rewards, and with cashing out I could just leave and do PvE/PvP instead. The result would be the same.

@Vavume.8065 said:First world problems, if you want to be rewarded for the participation you think you have banked, then spend your time in WvW to attain the rewards, the point is you have to SPEND YOUR TIME to get them, you have not earned those rewards in advance, so you do not deserve an early cashout.

You mean, to deserve the reward I have to spend time just being afk at the spawn, preventing other players to enter the map in case of a queue? How is that better than cashing out?

Q. Why can’t we cash out participation?A: Cashing out has many complications and does not address the primary reason that players suggest it: AFKing. It is impossible to predict all the rewards someone would earn because we cannot predict if a map will become outnumbered or if your world’s placement would change. We would somehow need to make cashing out rewards as good as the rewards you would get if you were still playing. If the rewards are not as good, people would still AFK, and if we made the rewards too good then everyone would just constantly cash out.

I don't think we need to predict the rewards in the future at all. Just assume the server is in the least place, and no outnumbered buff, would be much enough for me. I know it's not as good as if I just stayed AFK at spawn, hoping for outnumbered buff popping up, but I would save my time, my effort, my other food/buff duration, which is a good enough trade off for me.

I always AFK after done with WvW for quite some time, because I think it's worth it. However if the difference is very small with cashing out, I would just cash out of course. No point to waste my precious time AFK for such small benefit. To make it clear, if AFK gets 100% reward, I am fine getting only 90% reward if I just cash out. Then lock my participation gain to prevent from abusing this for X minutes where X is the time if I just AFK to get 0 participation.

Everyone one wins with this. If people still want to AFK for 100%, go for it. I believe at least a lot of people would enjoy 90% reward and save 10 minutes.

I totally agree this system felt so broken. After coming back to the game from a 2+ year break and seeing reward tracks for wvw I was forced to endure a few hours for a gift of battle, it felt completely wrong to sit at spawn while the bar just decreased and the participation rewards just ticked away. I wondered why so many ppl just sat there afk in the starting area so long and then it clicked, everyone does this. How is this the best system that these brilliant game developers could think of, it seems a bit half assed. I cant think of a better alternative then the above poster. Cash out for nearly same rewards and be locked out of the same amount of time and rewards you would have earned if you sat there leeching every last bit of saved up participation. Having players sitting afk for 10-15 minutes should absolutely not be the encouraged method here, like I said it seems very broken.

@Vault Girl.6792 said:

@Vavume.8065 said:First world problems, if you want to be rewarded for the participation you think you have banked, then spend your time in WvW to attain the rewards, the point is you have to SPEND YOUR TIME to get them, you have not earned those rewards in advance, so you do not deserve an early cashout.

There is no reason for you to be blocking the queue for other players to get in as there is almost never a queue on every map, so move to a map with no queue, it's not rocket science...

@Strider Pj.2193 said:To add to the above, they may be able to code it, but honestly, I'd rather them keep tweaking skills for balance.

Yes and not coming with another calculation to make it even more laggy.

@Vault Girl.6792 said:

@Vavume.8065 said:First world problems, if you want to be rewarded for the participation you think you have banked, then spend your time in WvW to attain the rewards, the point is you have to SPEND YOUR TIME to get them, you have not earned those rewards in advance, so you do not deserve an early cashout.

If you are worried about preventing other people to join while you afk your reward, jump to Obsidian Sanctum, you get your pips etc there, too.

@Vavume.8065 said:

@Vault Girl.6792 said:

@Vavume.8065 said:First world problems, if you want to be rewarded for the participation you think you have banked, then spend your time in WvW to attain the rewards, the point is you have to SPEND YOUR TIME to get them, you have not earned those rewards in advance, so you do not deserve an early cashout.

Exactly. Or OS. Granted, you can't see the degen there, but you get the pips and progress.

@Offair.2563 said:

@Vault Girl.6792 said:

@Vavume.8065 said:First world problems, if you want to be rewarded for the participation you think you have banked, then spend your time in WvW to attain the rewards, the point is you have to SPEND YOUR TIME to get them, you have not earned those rewards in advance, so you do not deserve an early cashout.

I could do it, yes (though on other maps there are vendors at least). And I do it in case of queues. Not all the players do that, and surely no one has any reason to move there.But that wasn't my point. I do not understand why does Vavume think that just passively standing and waiting for the reward makes you deserve it more than just getting the reward directly.And what about these 15-20 (not sure how many exactly) minutes that a player could spend differently? Just being afk isn't really productive.

@Vault Girl.6792 said:

@Offair.2563 said:

@Vault Girl.6792 said:

@Vavume.8065 said:First world problems, if you want to be rewarded for the participation you think you have banked, then spend your time in WvW to attain the rewards, the point is you have to SPEND YOUR TIME to get them, you have not earned those rewards in advance, so you do not deserve an early cashout.

That's the real population ANet wants on their game :disappointed:There are players who says 40+ vs a empty structure is very skillfull to capture it.. it, sadly ive talked with this kinda of players on my server....

That is what this was(is) suposed to be... the ideal just behind GW2 is the most lamest thing i ever saw and played... :disappointed_relieved:

@X T D.6458 said:

@"Zaraki.5784" said:

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/19921/wvw-frequently-asked-questions

"......Q. Why can’t we cash out participation?A: Cashing out has many complications and does not address the primary reason that players suggest it: AFKing. It is impossible to predict all the rewards someone would earn because we cannot predict if a map will become outnumbered or if your world’s placement would change. We would somehow need to make cashing out rewards as good as the rewards you would get if you were still playing. If the rewards are not as good, people would still AFK, and if we made the rewards too good then everyone would just constantly cash out........"

Allow me to disagree on this part, IMO, even if people won't get full reward but only a reward locked at when they left (not counting outnubered and any other buff they could get) they will still leave maps or at least a big part of AFKers will do if a system of cashing out existed.

As many stated : just add a debuff that prevents you from entering WvW for 15 minutes (standard full decay time).

simple solution:Pips awarded as if you are in third place.Pips calculated as if you were AFKOutmanned NOT consideredParticipation debuff equal to time of MAX participation to no pip participation so you can't farm the system.

This should give something but not everything.

@ThomasC.1056 said:

@X T D.6458 said:

@"Zaraki.5784" said:

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/19921/wvw-frequently-asked-questions

"......Q. Why can’t we cash out participation?A: Cashing out has many complications and does not address the primary reason that players suggest it: AFKing. It is impossible to predict all the rewards someone would earn because we cannot predict if a map will become outnumbered or if your world’s placement would change. We would somehow need to make cashing out rewards as good as the rewards you would get if you were still playing. If the rewards are not as good, people would still AFK, and if we made the rewards too good then everyone would just constantly cash out........"

Allow me to disagree on this part, IMO, even if people won't get full reward but only a reward locked at when they left (not counting outnubered and any other buff they could get) they will still leave maps or at least a big part of AFKers will do if a system of cashing out existed.

I have two accounts and can already see a problem with this.

@Vault Girl.6792 said:

@Vavume.8065 said:First world problems, if you want to be rewarded for the participation you think you have banked, then spend your time in WvW to attain the rewards, the point is you have to SPEND YOUR TIME to get them, you have not earned those rewards in advance, so you do not deserve an early cashout.

Pretty sure you can let your timer decay in OS which should free up a queue slot for someone else. Correct me if I'm wrong.

@ThomasC.1056 said:

@X T D.6458 said:

@"Zaraki.5784" said:

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/19921/wvw-frequently-asked-questions

"......Q. Why can’t we cash out participation?A: Cashing out has many complications and does not address the primary reason that players suggest it: AFKing. It is impossible to predict all the rewards someone would earn because we cannot predict if a map will become outnumbered or if your world’s placement would change. We would somehow need to make cashing out rewards as good as the rewards you would get if you were still playing. If the rewards are not as good, people would still AFK, and if we made the rewards too good then everyone would just constantly cash out........"

Allow me to disagree on this part, IMO, even if people won't get full reward but only a reward locked at when they left (not counting outnubered and any other buff they could get) they will still leave maps or at least a big part of AFKers will do if a system of cashing out existed.

You seriously think preventing people from entering WvW is a good solution?

@Vavume.8065 said:

@Vault Girl.6792 said:

@Vavume.8065 said:First world problems, if you want to be rewarded for the participation you think you have banked, then spend your time in WvW to attain the rewards, the point is you have to SPEND YOUR TIME to get them, you have not earned those rewards in advance, so you do not deserve an early cashout.

Or just AFK wherever you happen to wind-down for the night until participation is gone regardless of queue or no. One's only holding a slot hostage for 15 minutes or so. Most of the times there aren't queues on any of the maps except maybe EBG anyhow, unless it's reset night. I'm quite fine with having a break to watch some youtube videos or something while my participation ticks down.

@CedarDog.9723 said:

@Vavume.8065 said:

@Vault Girl.6792 said:

@Vavume.8065 said:First world problems, if you want to be rewarded for the participation you think you have banked, then spend your time in WvW to attain the rewards, the point is you have to SPEND YOUR TIME to get them, you have not earned those rewards in advance, so you do not deserve an early cashout.

I'm surprised everyone sees only this part of the comment, though that's not the main point. My question was: how is being afk better than cashing out and doing other things?