Wintersday Balance Update: Feedback Thread — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Wintersday Balance Update: Feedback Thread

'allo all,

Now that the Wintersday update has gone live, along with its small balance update, we'd like to open up this thread to hear your constructive feedback. Once you've had a chance to play the changes in your preferred game modes, let us know what and why you liked a change, disliked a change, felt something went too far, or didn't go far enough within the scope of a smaller update. Be as constructively specific as possible. Thank you!

Keep in mind that the majority these changes are intended to move toward the listed foci from my earlier news post:

This small update has primary two foci:

  • Pushing damaging burst condition toward ramping, sustained damage. This should create more opportunities for counterplay, but also feel satisfying to keep conditions rolling once you’ve ramped them up.
    - i.e. We’re tuning some skills that apply damaging conditions so that they apply less stacks up front, but last for longer. In total duration they’re almost the same before and after.
    - e.g. Purging Flames: Burning has been adjusted from 3 stacks for 5 seconds to 2 stacks for 8 seconds.

  • Re-vamping several passive vulnerability traits to offer more distinct opportunities or create synergy with other traits (rather than being standalone). At small amounts vulnerability doesn’t feel good and adding more vulnerability to something that is capped on it has little value. These changes will offer chances to spike up vulnerability when it is ebbing or encourage new build styles.
    - e.g. Mutilate Defenses: This trait has been reworked and renamed to "Expose Defenses". This trait now causes your first attack when entering combat to inflict 5 stacks of vulnerability for 5 seconds. This ability refreshes whenever you use an elite skill.

Wonderful Wintersday to you all,
~Irenio

Tagged:
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Comments

  • TheSlothArmada.6709TheSlothArmada.6709 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 12, 2017

    I'm so glad that forcing warriors to dodge for a damage buff was removed.
    But it didn't do enough to actually alter power warrior's position.
    . . .
    I think you could've added a 10% damage bonus when at 25 stacks of might and 5% when at 15 stacks of might in addition to the changes.

    Volhryol O Maelstom - Chronomancer
    Ghelviir O Maelstom - Druid
    TheSlothArmada - Berserker
    Builds: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1jEaFeEWMhn3_c9Dt7DlOKWMHOVyRbWDSbEEgpSgrTMY/edit?usp=sharing

  • Shirlias.8104Shirlias.8104 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Seems really a good patch.

  • Well, now you kinda fixed Burst application are you going to do something about that CONSTANT never ending application? I mean at least when its Power builds, they fail or miss their biggest hitters they have to wait a few seconds to try again, Condi builds just move to the very next ability that has many conditions connected to to.

    Also, Thanks for the Nerf for Ele. We totally needed that. Oh wait...

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Thought so, thanks for the clarification.

  • Zlater.6789Zlater.6789 Member ✭✭✭

    Can you please explain the thought process behind increasing the dps of the rifle on thief? My understanding was that nobody wanted a buff to the rifle but everybody wanted a buff to deadeye?

    I worry it will become another thing like DH traps but it will still remain totally useless.

  • for the thief, it's a great joke , only change for PvE.....

  • i really like the changes in engi especailly those on firearms spec. but theoretically they are all nice imo. it just needs to test them out in pvp.Buffing some traits that ppl never use makes the game more fun because you can try a lot of different builds in all classes. keep it up

  • i have to say that you should nerf all conditions of all classes. Elementalist especially the weaver elite uses a combination of power and condition to deal damage. nerfing that much the conditions wasn't that good idea. Ele never stucked insane ammounts of bleeding or burning like scourges or firebrands. i think you have to reconsider the nerf to conditions in some classes

  • Hmmmm... Looks like the condition changes are for PVP for everyone who has been complaining like Hell. Going to make killing kitten in PVE take much longer.

  • @Funkyshit.9126 said:
    i have to say that you should nerf all conditions of all classes. Elementalist especially the weaver elite uses a combination of power and condition to deal damage. nerfing that much the conditions wasn't that good idea. Ele never stucked insane ammounts of bleeding or burning like scourges or firebrands. i think you have to reconsider the nerf to conditions in some classes

    Hell, some classes either didnt get touched or got buffed. Weaver has to be full zerk (or Zerk + Fresh Air) in order to deal damage, yet they still decide to nerf us!? Why!?
    These changes are nothing but a buff really to condi builds. Longer duration, easier to stack them.

  • @Rintz.5138 said:
    those new ele traits are awful, thanks a lot, sincerely a dude who has been desperate for sword to work out

    Yep. Wasn't as if Sword needed damage buffs or anything, oh wait. They did and instead they got a nerf both to direct damage and conditions :/

  • MakubeC.3026MakubeC.3026 Member ✭✭✭

    Please consider making Thieve's Death's Retreat change also for PvP. It is a good escape skill, but too expensive.

  • @ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:

    @Funkyshit.9126 said:
    i have to say that you should nerf all conditions of all classes. Elementalist especially the weaver elite uses a combination of power and condition to deal damage. nerfing that much the conditions wasn't that good idea. Ele never stucked insane ammounts of bleeding or burning like scourges or firebrands. i think you have to reconsider the nerf to conditions in some classes

    Hell, some classes either didnt get touched or got buffed. Weaver has to be full zerk (or Zerk + Fresh Air) in order to deal damage, yet they still decide to nerf us!? Why!?
    These changes are nothing but a buff really to condi builds. Longer duration, easier to stack them.

    longer duration isnt any good buff. no one will have bleeding or burning for 9 sec. they just cleanse them . the issue was that till you cleanse them you had a lot of stacks on you

  • @Funkyshit.9126 said:
    longer duration isnt any good buff. no one will have bleeding or burning for 9 sec. they just cleanse them . the issue was that till you cleanse them you had a lot of stacks on you

    For ele it isnt due to the very low access to conditions. For others it is because they have plenty of access to constant covering conditions. So, nerf to ele. Buff to others and with the issue of constant application not being fixed, you will be hit with them constantly, so constant application of long duration conditions and at times you will simply be lucky (or unlucky...) in if you remove the damaging conditions with all the covering conditions on you.

  • @BeepBoopBop.5403 said:
    It was so simple, nerf over performing and over used builds, buff under performing and under used builds. Even easier since the goal was to nerf condi. And here we are, where FB healing is buffed, Condition Mirage is buffed, power and condition revenant nerfed, ele nerfed, condition engineer nerfed.

    Stop. The. P2W.

    You would think its simple. The sad thing was, i said for several days that this update would end up being a BUFF to quite a few condition builds. Many said no. Well. Here we are. Knew this would happen. Though the condition AND damage nerf to ele did come as a surpirse, so they got me there :/

    How they managed to nerf condi ele, buff Condi Mirage and do very little to the other condi builds i dont know. We are basically a kitten version of firebrand if we go condi lol

  • Ariurotl.3718Ariurotl.3718 Member ✭✭✭

    I don't play much condi, so it doesn't affect me all that much... but since this is a thread that is about as close as confirmed to be attended by the devs, here's something I've been grumbling about for years:

    PLEASE STOP GUARDIAN SHOUTS FROM AUTOTARGETING MOBS, WHO DECIDED THAT THEY SHOULD? None of them are attacks, they don't affect mobs in any way, so why has this been a thing since as long as I remember?

    Back to your scheduled condition debate.

  • The initiative changes to Death's Retreat on Thief's rifle could have been made game wide instead of splitting it. It would be the same distance per point of initiative as shortbow 5, however it wouldn't have the same ability to aim it and use it for z-axis shadow steps, making it pretty balanced versus shortbow. I'm going to suggest putting a short blind (3 seconds) on it at the beginning of the cast too, since it doesn't have any evade frames. I know this was a balance patch out of the normal rotation so I won't throw a whole slew of change suggestions at you, but I think the above change could help nudge the rifle in the correct direction in PvP.

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Beautilation.7915 said:
    i mean mirage condi application is already so bad, im glad you guys didnt nerf it :)

    You are oblivious to mirage in pvp.

  • Aetatis.5418Aetatis.5418 Member ✭✭✭

    i am not sure what happened.
    first: i like most changes
    second: the power-dps on holosmith and power reaper on the test-golem dropped by 3k-4k dps ... and both got boosts with the recent update. i dont have numbers for other professions.
    i was able to pull 26.5k dps with my power reaper and although the axe got a dmg-boost (note: i didnt use unholy fervor pre-patch) my dps dropped to 23k.
    same on holosmith, with the build i used, i got 30k dps. now its down to 26k dps although i have 180 ferocity in addition to pre-patch.
    what happened here?

  • @zealex.9410 said:

    @Beautilation.7915 said:
    i mean mirage condi application is already so bad, im glad you guys didnt nerf it :)

    You are oblivious to mirage in pvp.

    No. He IS a Mirage...

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 12, 2017

    @Irenio CalmonHuang.2048 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:
    Before you run off to wolf down another mince pie, can you clarify if this is the full extent of the changes you were focusing on or if there’s still more planned at a later date but that you felt weren’t ready for this patch?

    I wish I was consuming delicious baked goods!

    I answered the question you're asking in the other thread, but it may have been a bit buried so I'll quote it here as well:

    @Irenio CalmonHuang.2048 said:
    To re-iterate and hopefully clarify something - this update is NOT an end-all resolution to power and condition builds, it is a step toward the goal of accentuating differences will lead to healthier options in several game modes. This is also a smaller scope update.

    On that note should dragon hunter maybe be slightly buffed? Since classes like weaver and holosmith seem to just be flat out better than dh now.

    Edit: why was axe left out of these condition changes?

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:

    @zealex.9410 said:

    @Beautilation.7915 said:
    i mean mirage condi application is already so bad, im glad you guys didnt nerf it :)

    You are oblivious to mirage in pvp.

    No. He IS a Mirage...

    That makes it worse ;_;

  • Turk.5460Turk.5460 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Maugetarr.6823 said:
    The initiative changes to Death's Retreat on Thief's rifle could have been made game wide instead of splitting it. It would be the same distance per point of initiative as shortbow 5, however it wouldn't have the same ability to aim it and use it for z-axis shadow steps, making it pretty balanced versus shortbow. I'm going to suggest putting a short blind (3 seconds) on it at the beginning of the cast too, since it doesn't have any evade frames. I know this was a balance patch out of the normal rotation so I won't throw a whole slew of change suggestions at you, but I think the above change could help nudge the rifle in the correct direction in PvP.

    I agree that the initiative change to Death's Retreat should have been in all modes.

    Your suggestion to add a blind due to lack of evade frames is confusing. You are comparing DR to IA, IA does not offer evade frames either, nor does it have a poison, nor does it clear a condition. Adding a blind to DR would over-stack the skill.

    Fort Aspenwood
    Jekkies

  • LeSavage.1359LeSavage.1359 Member ✭✭
    edited December 12, 2017

    Are those condi duration changes for pvp and wvw only? If not, who the kitten thought it will be great idea to make ppl kill things in pve 2 times longer with condi builds in PVE?

  • Urejt.5648Urejt.5648 Member ✭✭✭

    Thief rifle was greatly buffed in pve, but why not in pvp? I guess anet looked at statistics and thought rifle is fine in pvp. But i must say i am the only rifle thief in high plat pvp and i must say rifle is very weak weapon, so pvp statiscics are very misleading for rifle. i got there purly by mechanical skills. Rifle thief is the only weapon in game very different in pvp and pve. Why is that? Anet could at least push rifle 4 changes for pvp. Help me understant lack of rifle buff. Rifle is useless in pve even after the patch, same story as sword, lack of autoatack dps.
    mirage is was untouched in pvp. Mirage confusion duration was not touyched. Mirage is still op in pvp. Why no nerf to mirage?

    rifle is garbage since stealth on dodge nerf
    ~~* SEASON XII - TOP 12 EU RIFLE GOD! updated

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Karl McLain.5604 How come you didnt make distort share give barrier instead of aegis? Its a more interesting dynamic.

  • @Turk.5460 said:

    @Maugetarr.6823 said:
    The initiative changes to Death's Retreat on Thief's rifle could have been made game wide instead of splitting it. It would be the same distance per point of initiative as shortbow 5, however it wouldn't have the same ability to aim it and use it for z-axis shadow steps, making it pretty balanced versus shortbow. I'm going to suggest putting a short blind (3 seconds) on it at the beginning of the cast too, since it doesn't have any evade frames. I know this was a balance patch out of the normal rotation so I won't throw a whole slew of change suggestions at you, but I think the above change could help nudge the rifle in the correct direction in PvP.

    I agree that the initiative change to Death's Retreat should have been in all modes.

    Your suggestion to add a blind due to lack of evade frames is confusing. You are comparing DR to IA, IA does not offer evade frames either, nor does it have a poison, nor does it clear a condition. Adding a blind to DR would over-stack the skill.

    Well, my original suggestion for the skill back in a thief thread was to replace 1 of the stacks of poison on the skill with a stack of blind instead, but they just doubled the duration while eliminating 1, so that's out. I know IA doesn't offer evade frames, but SB has a set of evade frames on it allowing for some flexibility in combat. The problem I see with rifle is that it promotes sitting back and not even using the standing skills in a closer fight. The windup is long enough that even if you use DR reactively, you can still get hit before the shadowstep happens. IA offers the ability to choose how to reposition yourself whereas DR simply shadowsteps you directly away from your target. So my idea comes from the fact that you have much less control over the effectiveness of DR, so if used reactively, it should prevent 1 hit from a character in melee range while not affecting someone using a skill from range.

    Overall, I think rifle has good damage, but lacks utility that would help it in a pvp setting outside of surprising someone. I didn't want to go into a huge list of possible changes they could make in a general feedback thread, but this one suggestion I think would help rifle significantly with a minor change.

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