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Revenant 12/12 Patch Notes

Eros.6801Eros.6801 Member ✭✭✭
edited December 12, 2017 in Revenant

Here it is

  • Energy Drain Skills: All skills that cancel energy-drain skills have been modified to be usable in midair.
  • Deathstrike: Energy cost has been reduced from 20 to 10. The cooldown has been reduced from 20 seconds to 15 seconds.
  • Impossible Odds: This skill and its associated Relinquish Power skill are now usable in midair.
  • Project Tranquility: Fixed a bug that prevented healing from the tablet from being reported in the combat log.
  • Scorchrazor: Burning has been adjusted from 2 stacks for 2 seconds to 1 stack for 4 seconds.
  • Manifest Toxin: Poison has been adjusted from 2 stacks for 6 seconds to 1 stack for 12 seconds.
  • Temporal Rift: Torment has been adjusted from 3 stacks for 8 seconds to 2 stacks for 12 seconds.
  • Forceful Displacement: Torment has been adjusted from 4 stacks for 6 seconds to 3 stacks for 8 seconds.
  • Venom Enhancement: Poison has been adjusted from 2 stacks for 5 seconds to 1 stack for 10 seconds.
  • Abyssal Chill: Torment duration has been adjusted from 2 stacks for 3 seconds to 1 stack for 6 seconds.
  • Maniacal Persistence: Torment duration has been adjusted from 4 stacks for 5 seconds to 2 stacks for 10 seconds.
  • Mutilate Defenses: This trait has been reworked and renamed Expose Defenses. This trait now causes your first attack when entering combat to inflict 5 stacks of vulnerability for 5 seconds. This skill refreshes whenever you use an elite skill.

Discuss !!

MEH !!!

Comments

  • Draygorn.7012Draygorn.7012 Member ✭✭✭

    Well that is certainly a nice change to Deathstrike! But it is unfortunate about condi rev, as these changes have reduced the little viability we had in PvP even further. It may be a good change in PvE though. We'll see.

  • So I still have to wait for any good news.
    P.S. mes' mantra of resolve now cleanses 13 condis upon successful charging (12 sec cd) - they did it so easily somehow in contrast to rev.. ??

  • I thought the whole point of this balance patch was to make power builds better compared to condi ones, but this Mutilated Defences nerf does the exact opposite against anything but easily burst down enemies.

    On a power build, at best you can proc it every 10 seconds, probably a lot less often because you don't have any elites you want to fire as soon as you switch stance. Plus you need to stay on sword MH if you want to keep up Targeted Destruction (build variety please, anet).

    Whereas on a condi build, you can happily pop Kalla and Mallyx elites as soon as you swap, plus your Expertise will make sure the vuln will last much longer than 5s.

    Plus they're supposed to make condis do more ramping damage (which is what the old trait already did) and less burst (which is what the new one does). I'm absolutely baffled.

  • Napo.1230Napo.1230 Member ✭✭✭

    Hurray we can now hit nothing more often with the new deathstrike buff!!!! Hype.

    Nothing to deal with condi still.
    O well could be worse atleast we can now use impossible odds in midair.........

  • Burtnik.5218Burtnik.5218 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 12, 2017

    "Mutilate Defenses: This trait has been reworked and renamed Expose Defenses. This trait now causes your first attack when entering combat to inflict 5 stacks of vulnerability for 5 seconds. This skill refreshes whenever you use an elite skill."

    Someone add "nerf" with rev and anet icons to this movie plz.

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Napo.1230 said:
    Hurray we can now hit nothing more often with the new deathstrike buff!!!! Hype.

    Nothing to deal with condi still.
    O well could be worse atleast we can now use impossible odds in midair.........

    That is exactly my thoughts regarding deathstrike. I guess better than nothing,

    Condi Rev is now alt+ctrl+delete in everything but PvE raids if the boss does not have adds.

  • narcx.3570narcx.3570 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 12, 2017

    I was dreading the condi change for raiding renegades, but this isn't so bad... Our biggest sources of damage (2/3's of the Mace AA chain, Embrace, Searing, Echoing, Razorclaw, Citadel) remain unchanged. :grimace:

    They should make the new Expose Defenses Skill refresh on like a channeling skill with a 10 second ICD or on legend swap or something though... Elite skill is really restrictive unless you're playing Mallyx.

    Edit: actually, after my first raid today, Expose Defenses + Condi Renegade ends up being one of the main sources of vulnerability for raids now. I mean it sucks for PvP, but at least you can just flash EtD a few times to keep 25 stacks up in raids.

  • Justine.6351Justine.6351 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Getting Expose Defenses is worth the trade off of all those condi skills getting gutted. Judges Intervention blink kitten burn guardians got wrecked so bad lol.

    Anet buff me :-(
    Make me good at game!

  • BlaqueFyre.5678BlaqueFyre.5678 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Expose Defenses change kills sustained damage on builds that didn’t use Sword MH but I’m ok with it since my current build is unaffected by this change.

  • @CorliCorso.6254 said:
    I thought the whole point of this balance patch was to make power builds better compared to condi ones

    You would think. Hey at least you actually got a damage buff, even if it was only to one weapon. Ele got both Direct damage nerf (every build!) and condition nerf, though condi nerf isnt that bad because no one would play a condi ele these days anyway, man was hella fun back in the day though. Going around trolling other pure condi builds as a Condi Diamond Skin<3 Those were fun times, easily countered but fun. Shame they nerfed it into the ground because the condi player base HATES having counters.

  • So... What's the result of this? Power Rev is still garbage tier in pve right? Deathstrike buffs are nice, but it's still a super slow skill. Should have reduced sword 4 cd as well.

    Is condi rev dead now too? Is there literally no viable rev build in end game content?

    As far as pvp is concerned, we weren't exactly buffed, but it will be interesting to see how these condi changes play out in revs favor.

  • Vulf.3098Vulf.3098 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 12, 2017

    @narcx.3570 said:
    Edit: actually, after my first raid today, Expose Defenses + Condi Renegade ends up being one of the main sources of vulnerability for raids now. I mean it sucks for PvP, but at least you can just flash EtD a few times to keep 25 stacks up in raids.

    That is 100% not worth doing with the amount of dps you lose. Even with the change to vuln traits there is enough vuln from other spec traits/abilities that the boss stays at 25. This definitely hurts some comps (more specifically spec stacking comps) which honestly needed to be nerfed anyways. So sick of seeing Ele's stacked on stuff like KC even though this doesn't really change that.

  • jaif.3518jaif.3518 Member ✭✭✭

    I worked my tail off to get the renegade's collection shortbow, but finally gave it to my thief as a deadeye condi-thief is much better in wvw.

    Having said that, all this patch did was objectively make rev-shortbow even worse in WvW. I do like the idea, but the execution is off...or at least I'm missing something.

    Anyways, I suppose the shortbow stays with my thief for now.

    -Jeff

  • narcx.3570narcx.3570 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Vulf.3098 said:

    @narcx.3570 said:
    Edit: actually, after my first raid today, Expose Defenses + Condi Renegade ends up being one of the main sources of vulnerability for raids now. I mean it sucks for PvP, but at least you can just flash EtD a few times to keep 25 stacks up in raids.

    That is 100% not worth doing with the amount of dps you lose. Even with the change to vuln traits there is enough vuln from other spec traits/abilities that the boss stays at 25. This definitely hurts some comps (more specifically spec stacking comps) which honestly needed to be nerfed anyways. So sick of seeing Ele's stacked on stuff like KC even though this doesn't really change that.

    Ele groups on KC will probably just need a War keeping it up or something, cuz no more Weakspot. Or if they were cool enough to let a DH come along that would work too.

    As for a DPS loss, you lose like 3 seconds every full rotation for flashing EtD before swapping to Kalla and dropping SC b4 swapping to Mallyx. I guess that adds up, but if your group doesn't have vuln, it doesn't have vuln. :anguished:

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @narcx.3570 said:

    @Vulf.3098 said:

    @narcx.3570 said:
    Edit: actually, after my first raid today, Expose Defenses + Condi Renegade ends up being one of the main sources of vulnerability for raids now. I mean it sucks for PvP, but at least you can just flash EtD a few times to keep 25 stacks up in raids.

    That is 100% not worth doing with the amount of dps you lose. Even with the change to vuln traits there is enough vuln from other spec traits/abilities that the boss stays at 25. This definitely hurts some comps (more specifically spec stacking comps) which honestly needed to be nerfed anyways. So sick of seeing Ele's stacked on stuff like KC even though this doesn't really change that.

    Ele groups on KC will probably just need a War keeping it up or something, cuz no more Weakspot. Or if they were cool enough to let a DH come along that would work too.

    As for a DPS loss, you lose like 3 seconds every full rotation for flashing EtD before swapping to Kalla and dropping SC b4 swapping to Mallyx. I guess that adds up, but if your group doesn't have vuln, it doesn't have vuln. :anguished:

    Man, I am beginning to feel the power rev now is going to over take condi rev. Before this patch, my understanding it power rev damage was between 29K-30K with raid realistic buffs. It got a slight buff with deathstrike, and is million times better in applying vulnerability compared to condi rev. Now that much of condi rev damage is being back handed, it may not be worth much anymore.

  • Vulf.3098Vulf.3098 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 12, 2017

    @narcx.3570 said:
    Ele groups on KC will probably just need a War keeping it up or something, cuz no more Weakspot. Or if they were cool enough to let a DH come along that would work too.

    As for a DPS loss, you lose like 3 seconds every full rotation for flashing EtD before swapping to Kalla and dropping SC b4 swapping to Mallyx. I guess that adds up, but if your group doesn't have vuln, it doesn't have vuln. :anguished:

    If your group isn't able to hold 25 stacks on the boss you are mostly likely stacking a specific spec. I don't even run devastation in raid because my static is largely condi builds and we were able to hold 25 stacks just fine.

    So I guess if you join a pug group that has vuln issues then you can do this but I feel that would be the least of your issues at that point.

    @otto.5684 said:
    Man, I am beginning to feel the power rev now is going to over take condi rev. Before this patch, my understanding it power rev damage was between 29K-30K with raid realistic buffs. It got a slight buff with deathstrike, and is million times better in applying vulnerability compared to condi rev. Now that much of condi rev damage is being back handed, it may not be worth much anymore.

    Not sure where you saw power was doing 30k?

    Anyways no condi renegade is still amazing. The biggest hit was to axe 5 and honestly it was barely a nerf. My damage went up compared to yesterday by a tiny margin. The biggest hits in damage was bosses that condi renegade was already questionable on.

  • ArthurDent.9538ArthurDent.9538 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 12, 2017

    @otto.5684 said:

    @narcx.3570 said:

    @Vulf.3098 said:

    @narcx.3570 said:
    Edit: actually, after my first raid today, Expose Defenses + Condi Renegade ends up being one of the main sources of vulnerability for raids now. I mean it sucks for PvP, but at least you can just flash EtD a few times to keep 25 stacks up in raids.

    That is 100% not worth doing with the amount of dps you lose. Even with the change to vuln traits there is enough vuln from other spec traits/abilities that the boss stays at 25. This definitely hurts some comps (more specifically spec stacking comps) which honestly needed to be nerfed anyways. So sick of seeing Ele's stacked on stuff like KC even though this doesn't really change that.

    Ele groups on KC will probably just need a War keeping it up or something, cuz no more Weakspot. Or if they were cool enough to let a DH come along that would work too.

    As for a DPS loss, you lose like 3 seconds every full rotation for flashing EtD before swapping to Kalla and dropping SC b4 swapping to Mallyx. I guess that adds up, but if your group doesn't have vuln, it doesn't have vuln. :anguished:

    Man, I am beginning to feel the power rev now is going to over take condi rev. Before this patch, my understanding it power rev damage was between 29K-30K with raid realistic buffs. It got a slight buff with deathstrike, and is million times better in applying vulnerability compared to condi rev. Now that much of condi rev damage is being back handed, it may not be worth much anymore.

    Not really, power rev dps is around 23-24k realistic which is absolutely awful. Also deathstrike change does next to nothing for dps since the cast time is so long it barely out dps's the auto attack.

    I should also add that if vuln becomes an issue, a druid can just take storm spirit for easy 25 stacks. It is nice that druid can stack 25 might on 10 people, perma protection on 10 people, perma fury, perma swiftness, it is literally everything Glint can do only better and additionally has great heals, frost spirit, sun spirit, good cc, etc. etc. etc.

  • narcx.3570narcx.3570 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ArthurDent.9538 said:

    @otto.5684 said:

    @narcx.3570 said:

    @Vulf.3098 said:

    @narcx.3570 said:
    Edit: actually, after my first raid today, Expose Defenses + Condi Renegade ends up being one of the main sources of vulnerability for raids now. I mean it sucks for PvP, but at least you can just flash EtD a few times to keep 25 stacks up in raids.

    That is 100% not worth doing with the amount of dps you lose. Even with the change to vuln traits there is enough vuln from other spec traits/abilities that the boss stays at 25. This definitely hurts some comps (more specifically spec stacking comps) which honestly needed to be nerfed anyways. So sick of seeing Ele's stacked on stuff like KC even though this doesn't really change that.

    Ele groups on KC will probably just need a War keeping it up or something, cuz no more Weakspot. Or if they were cool enough to let a DH come along that would work too.

    As for a DPS loss, you lose like 3 seconds every full rotation for flashing EtD before swapping to Kalla and dropping SC b4 swapping to Mallyx. I guess that adds up, but if your group doesn't have vuln, it doesn't have vuln. :anguished:

    Man, I am beginning to feel the power rev now is going to over take condi rev. Before this patch, my understanding it power rev damage was between 29K-30K with raid realistic buffs. It got a slight buff with deathstrike, and is million times better in applying vulnerability compared to condi rev. Now that much of condi rev damage is being back handed, it may not be worth much anymore.

    Not really, power rev dps is around 23-24k realistic which is absolutely awful. Also deathstrike change does next to nothing for dps since the cast time is so long it barely out dps's the auto attack.

    I should also add that if vuln becomes an issue, a druid can just take storm spirit for easy 25 stacks. It is nice that druid can stack 25 might on 10 people, perma protection on 10 people, perma fury, perma swiftness, it is literally everything Glint can do only better and additionally has great heals, frost spirit, sun spirit, good cc, etc. etc. etc.

    I think we might also see Bannerslaves take over this role. They have that new trait that applies 5 stacks every time they use a burst skill.

  • Buran.3796Buran.3796 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Justine.6351 said:
    Getting Expose Defenses is worth the trade off of all those condi skills getting gutted. Judges Intervention blink kitten burn guardians got wrecked so bad lol.

    The problem is that burn Guards are way less popular than condi Mirages, and condi Mirage (which is a true nemesis/hardcounter for Herald) got some nice buffs.

  • Edds.7681Edds.7681 Member ✭✭
    edited December 13, 2017

    I haven't really noticed my viper build being reduced in open world pve. my dot damage is alot higher from 5k a tick to 8k tick. mace 2, 3 and mallyx elite hasnt been effected. Not sure if i want to go back to Power Herald build. I don't like the Expose Defenses change as I dont have a toggle on elite in Jalis, Shiro or Glint

  • narcx.3570narcx.3570 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Orion Templar.4589 said:
    I'll admit I'm not of fan of Expose Defenses. While not using sword main-hand I felt like Mutilate Defenses allowed my vulnerability application to be more reliable/constant. I'd definitely vote to have this particular change reverted.

    The thing is though, where are you missing the vulnerability that you were getting from MD? I think in open world things die so fast that you probably weren't getting more than 5 stacks of vulnerability up anyways. In raids, while it's true that you contribute less to the vuln stack now, the meta will always adjust to make sure that it's covered and the boss has 25, so that' whatever. The only place I could really see this change having a negative impact is in Fractals due to the random comps, but even then... In full viper's with 100% crit rate, MD was probably only keeping up around 8-12 stacks of vulnerability anyways--depending on which part of your rotation you were on--and that was if you were averaging 3 crittable attacks per second.

    And the change for PvP is actually noticeable in a good way when it comes to your bursts and +1's. (assuming you're playing power.)

  • I've stopped using Devastation on my Renegade with this patch. Without the ability to self-apply vulnerability,, half of the traits end up not working. No life leech, no damage buffs. I've gone to Invocation.

    "Self awareness is knowing when you're sitting at the throne of ignorance." --Leo G.

  • Klypto.1703Klypto.1703 Member ✭✭✭

    Make it short and simple that the condi changes do not work for revs because it only works if you have consistent condition clears which rev does not have. Anet before you say well look theres ventari I will rebuke this by having anet go into 50 people spamming condi's at you and say hold on let me get this tablet over here and cleanse people and then the second later call a time out again so you get energy to cleanse again. Same thing with charr summons call a time out so they don't get interrupted or trampled to death(anet I would really really really like to know who this person was that thought this would be useful). The devastation trait changes are like square peg round hole they simply do not work until you give us back the round peg.

    So anet will make this simplistic with condi's an eyedrop of water or gasoline do not put out condi storms. So the current state is throw the rev in front of moving train and tell them they should git gud. Remember round peg round hole and no more dead charr that get run over by the moving train.

  • @narcx.3570 said:
    The thing is though, where are you missing the vulnerability that you were getting from MD?

    I usually run a high crit-rate build, so MD was reliable vulnerability application. A couple traits that benefited from the reliable vulnerability were Targeted Destruction and Focused Siphoning. Granted even for non-sword builds there are still some other ways to apply vulnerability, especially as a Renegade. It's just not as constant as it used to be with MD.

  • narcx.3570narcx.3570 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Orion Templar.4589 said:

    @narcx.3570 said:
    The thing is though, where are you missing the vulnerability that you were getting from MD?

    I usually run a high crit-rate build, so MD was reliable vulnerability application. A couple traits that benefited from the reliable vulnerability were Targeted Destruction and Focused Siphoning. Granted even for non-sword builds there are still some other ways to apply vulnerability, especially as a Renegade. It's just not as constant as it used to be with MD.

    I think (this post was from a while ago) my point was that power builds use sword, so it's whatever, and even in condi solo play everything dies before your opening vulnerability stacks even wear off, so you're not really missing access to those traits at all (Plus, running Devastation instead of Invocation outside of a group is probably less dps and for sure leaves you a lot more vulnerable...)

    And if you're in a group, targets will always have vulnerability without even putting in a conscious effort... Unless you're using some some crazy rare group composition or something.

  • Buran.3796Buran.3796 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 31, 2017

    @narcx.3570 said:

    And the change for PvP is actually noticeable in a good way when it comes to your bursts and +1's. (assuming you're playing power.)

    In PvP is were hurts the most. Sword auto attack is unreliable due most classes can fight you at range, so all the vulnerability procs the other weapon skills provided are lost. So the synergies the other traits provide are frozen, most of the time they do nothing. And guess what: you can't play in PvP without Devastation, so now the traitline is ven more full of useless traits.

  • narcx.3570narcx.3570 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Buran.3796 said:

    @narcx.3570 said:

    And the change for PvP is actually noticeable in a good way when it comes to your bursts and +1's. (assuming you're playing power.)

    In PvP is were hurts the most. Sword auto attack is unreliable due most classes can fight you at range, so all the vulnerability procs the other weapon skills provided are lost. So the synergies the other traits provide are frozen, most of the time they do nothing. And guess what: you can't play in PvP without Devastation, so now the traitline is ven more full of useless traits.

    Well, you can reset the trait every 45 seconds with chaos (we don't mention jade winds because you're not spending that much energy just to reset the trait), and you have Burst of Strength every 15 seconds. So counting your opening strike, you have 4 possible vulnerability spikes in a ~18 second period... If you're playing Devestation and haven't used your sword that whole time, I dunno what to tell you. Maybe you're a hammer rev...? Okay, so, just put a Sigil of Fallibility on your hammer and problem solved.

    Is it a better trait? Not really, I don't think I'm saying that... (Although the free 5% damage spike on your opening +1 combo is nice.) But, it's certainly not the abysmal situation everyone makes it out to be. If you've had 4 vulnerability spikes in 20 seconds without ever using your sword and haven't killed the target yet, it's probably not happening... The longer a rev stays in a fight, the worse it is for them--especially with condi's flying around everywhere--so front loading all of our damage isn't necessarily the worst thing. And if you're playing hammer into double scourge or something and siphoning from range is that important to you, just fix your sigils.

  • Burtnik.5218Burtnik.5218 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 31, 2017

    @narcx.3570 said:The longer a rev stays in a fight, the worse it is for them

    I remember times when it was the other way around while warrior was burst fast or die playstyle. Good game

  • Buran.3796Buran.3796 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @narcx.3570 said:

    Is it a better trait? Not really, I don't think I'm saying that... (Although the free 5% damage spike on your opening +1 combo is nice.) But, it's certainly not the abysmal situation everyone makes it out to be. If you've had 4 vulnerability spikes in 20 seconds without ever using your sword and haven't killed the target yet, it's probably not happening... The longer a rev stays in a fight, the worse it is for them--especially with condi's flying around everywhere--so front loading all of our damage isn't necessarily the worst thing. And if you're playing hammer into double scourge or something and siphoning from range is that important to you, just fix your sigils.

    Before the proc of small stacks of vulnerability were a constant so their cooldowns overlaped and therefore Targeted Destruction and Focused Siphoning were granted almost constantly. So we lost permanently a 7%+ damage in PvP and solo roaming, not to mention that with so many Firebrands playing per match in Conquest mode Exposed Defenses (negated almost every time you start a fight due Aegis spam).

    Is virtually like having three empty holes in the minor trait slots (Exposed Defenses, Targeted Destruction and Focused Siphoning), except in PvE (in which really doesn't matter), so I fail to see how isn't abysmal. If PvE were my main game mode I had abandoned the class time ago. In the last patch ANet managed to both make power Herald less competitive in PvP and WvW while also making core Rev and Renegade worse, which is a feat hard to obtain if one isn't really careless about what's doing. In the proccess also they were able to buff Mirage, our worst hard counter.

    By the way I don't use hammer (sword+axe/staff), and there's nothing to fix in sigils because after the successive waves of bans in amulets, runes and sigils the PvP system is so plain and lackluster of deep that isn't anything to manage. Fine tunning is a thing of the past.