Map Nav Mesh problems (No Valid Path to Target) — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Map Nav Mesh problems (No Valid Path to Target)

Hey folks!

Finding every spot in a map where nav mesh is broken and preventing teleportation is near impossible for a handful of people. As such, please post in this thread if you find such places in PvP maps. When you receive "No valid path to target."

We'll be monitoring this post regularly and investigating those locations.

Thanks!

Ben Phongluangtham
Game Designer
Reddit: ANET_BenP
Twitch: AnetBenP

Tagged:
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Comments

  • Urejt.5648Urejt.5648 Member ✭✭✭

    can u not run bot or ai to detecit it? such an easy programmable job...

  • Scary.8034Scary.8034 Member ✭✭
    edited December 14, 2017

    https://clips.twitch.tv/HorribleArtsyBaconTebowing

    here one i saw on stream earlier.
    Here on forest of Niflhel again, around the river area:
    https://imgur.com/a/436U4
    If you're standing in the river you cannot teleport past that black line that I drew

  • @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:
    Hey folks!

    Finding every spot in a map where nav mesh is broken and preventing teleportation is near impossible for a handful of people. As such, please post in this thread if you find such places in PvP maps. When you receive "No valid path to target."

    We'll be monitoring this post regularly and investigating those locations.

    Thanks!

    does this mean we can get shadow trap looked into?

  • MUDse.7623MUDse.7623 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:
    Hey folks!

    Finding every spot in a map where nav mesh is broken and preventing teleportation is near impossible for a handful of people. As such, please post in this thread if you find such places in PvP maps. When you receive "No valid path to target."

    We'll be monitoring this post regularly and investigating those locations.

    Thanks!

    will there be a thread like this for other areas of the game as well (pve / wvw)? or just post it here if we find such an issue outside of pvp maps ?

    read this, become a better player now.

  • Abelisk.4527Abelisk.4527 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 14, 2018

    Reserved for any I remember or find

    • Battle of Khylo, mid point. Teleporting from the outer ring onto the center point area is not possible vice versa

    • Teleporting between the gaps in Skyhammer (the bridges between spawn and home points) is not possible.

    • Legacy of Foefire. Rock next to Quarry can't be teleported to/from.

  • shadow trap and renegade have issues with no valid path. curious to see if this will also spark interest in fixing the "no enough health" bug when trying to port away from a stomp as thief...

  • OriOri.8724OriOri.8724 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Honest question, how feasible would it to be rework teleport skills to have some wiggle room in their algorithms so that they can avoid most nav mesh problems? Because finding every single place where they get stuck and fixing it is a monumental task, and that's just for PvP, not to mention PvE or WvW. If you don't know, maybe ask the skill and balance team? I feel like that's the best way forward, if its possible to do.

    Eyyyy I unlocked signatures

  • Maugetarr.6823Maugetarr.6823 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 13, 2017

    I don't know how much work the idea I'm about to propose would be compared to fixing all the nav mesh, but in my head it's more like painting the terrain with a broad brush rather than finding a needle in a haystack.

    Would it be possible to put tags on sections of the nav mesh (for simplification, we'll just use A, B, and U). So when you attempt to shadowstep, instead of trying to find a path along the nav mesh, it'll look at the tags at the start and end location. So if you're standing on a piece of ground tagged "A" and attempt to shadowstep to a part of ground also tagged "A" it will automatically succeed and teleport you there more like how portal works (ignoring the actual path in between the two). If you try to shadowstep from a place tagged "A" to a place tagged "B" it will default to the current path finding mechanic, and if a successful path is found, it will shadowstep you. This second check would be due to stuff like the inside of keeps and tops of walls in WvW, and inside the lord area of foe fire in PvP needing to be tagged differently from the outside of them to prevent going through walls. This would narrow your hunt for broken nav mesh down to only where changes in the nav mesh tags occur.

    Alternatively, instead of the current pathing check to see if a wall or gate is down, have a trigger that when a wall or gate is destroyed, it applies a universal beginning and end to a shadowstep in a 2k radius around the piece of terrain. So the way it would work then is if a wall is destroyed, in a 2k radius around it, the nav mesh would be tagged "A&U" on the outside of the keep and "B&U" on the inside. The "A to B" check would fail, but the "U to U" check would succeed, triggering a successful shadowstep.

    I have no idea what your code looks like and how hard it would be to add a new script to do this check of shadowstep abilities, but it seems simpler than looking for all the wrinkles and disconnects in the mesh.

    Edit: P.S. I will try to document problems when I find them though to help with your search.

  • Ithilwen.1529Ithilwen.1529 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 14, 2017

    Battle of Khylo, the thatched roofs absolutely would not permit a blink claiming no valid path. I just died as a result. I was attempting to go "downhill" along the stepped roofs of the wall toward the central tower. The game absolutely refused.

    Mesmerizing Girl

  • Crinn.7864Crinn.7864 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 14, 2017

    @Ben does this mean that jumping puzzles and other teleport safes are not intended? Or are you just trying to cut down on random pebbles breaking teleports?

    Sanity is for the weak minded
    YouTube

  • Ithilwen.1529Ithilwen.1529 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Temple from the upper Meditation on Stillness area to the snow platform that overlooks mid. the game doesn't permit blinking up despite a clear path.

    Mesmerizing Girl

  • @Crinn.7864 said:
    @Ben does this mean that jumping puzzles and other teleport safes are not intended? Or are you just trying to cut down on random pebbles breaking teleports?

    Some places are intended as a teleport safe spot. I'm mainly concerned with the "random pebbles" issue. But if there is a spot people like us to evaluate, it's fair to post here and we'll take a look.

    Ben Phongluangtham
    Game Designer
    Reddit: ANET_BenP
    Twitch: AnetBenP

  • Lithril Ashwalker.6230Lithril Ashwalker.6230 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 15, 2017

    @Ben how will this address the issues with Shadow Trap and Scorpion wire? ages ago, before i had hair on my chin Scorpion Wire would pull them but theyd stop on a pebble. And around that time Shadow Trap used to work as intended, but now its LoS based there is no way to know if it will let us port back, whats the use in porting if it has to be line of sight?

  • Zlater.6789Zlater.6789 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 15, 2017

    @Lithril Ashwalker.6230 said:
    @Ben how will this address the issues with Shadow Trap and Scorpion wire? ages ago, before i had hair on my chin Scorpion Wire would pull them but theyd stop on a pebble. And around that time Shadow Trap used to work as intended, but now its LoS based there is no way to know if it will let us port back, whats the use in porting if it has to be line of sight?

    I can't confirm this. But even though what you're asking is more a mechanical fix, I think that this would probably be a job for the balance team. The peeveepee peeps aren't really allowed to touch skills sadly.

  • Cynz.9437Cynz.9437 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 15, 2017

    Hello Ben, thank you and your colleagues for looking into this issue.
    Here is video with few spots that either cause no valid path error message, put character in wrong spot and waste CDs, spots where you can get knocked/pulled/feared into and die due to not being able to use teleport based stunbreak etc. or which players (e.g. druids) abuse to kite around and denying spells like steal/blink.

    I hope top players will give some input on this issue as well since they are masters at terrain abuse compared to us mortals.

    GW is P2Win. We are always lied to.

  • reikken.4961reikken.4961 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 16, 2017

    Capricorn. Center raised area, blue side. Trying to shadowstep up to the blue side of the potted plant from anywhere on the ground. But you can teleport up on red side.

    ADDITIONALLY, the ledge above that, the 3rd level, also has no valid path, while it works fine on red side.

  • R E F L H E X.8413R E F L H E X.8413 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 19, 2017

    @Lithril Ashwalker.6230 said:

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:
    Hey folks!

    Finding every spot in a map where nav mesh is broken and preventing teleportation is near impossible for a handful of people. As such, please post in this thread if you find such places in PvP maps. When you receive "No valid path to target."

    We'll be monitoring this post regularly and investigating those locations.

    Thanks!

    does this mean we can get shadow trap looked into?

    oh god man shadow trap has been in the back of my mind for a reworking as well.

    It should function like portal just put target directly into that position. Portal on mes has no problems with height (like clocktower) or obstructions but shadow trap hits every single little thing possible. and shadow trap is cooler than portal.

  • just played on Capricorn. Coming from the right side of the map, the stairs up to the part above mid are broken and don't let your teleport. also, one I've never encountered before until now is: right in front of mid, the small staircase leading down wouldn't let me steal. I think the guy was maybe half a step below me

  • @R E F L H E X.8413 said:

    @Lithril Ashwalker.6230 said:

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:
    Hey folks!

    Finding every spot in a map where nav mesh is broken and preventing teleportation is near impossible for a handful of people. As such, please post in this thread if you find such places in PvP maps. When you receive "No valid path to target."

    We'll be monitoring this post regularly and investigating those locations.

    Thanks!

    does this mean we can get shadow trap looked into?

    oh god man shadow trap has been in the back of my mind for a reworking as well.

    It should function like portal just put target directly into that position. Portal on mes has no problems with height (like clocktower) or obstructions but shadow trap hits every single little thing possible. and shadow trap is cooler than portal.

    we must band together to get this skill noticed! i have been on its case for over a year!

  • @Lithril Ashwalker.6230 said:

    @R E F L H E X.8413 said:

    @Lithril Ashwalker.6230 said:

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:
    Hey folks!

    Finding every spot in a map where nav mesh is broken and preventing teleportation is near impossible for a handful of people. As such, please post in this thread if you find such places in PvP maps. When you receive "No valid path to target."

    We'll be monitoring this post regularly and investigating those locations.

    Thanks!

    does this mean we can get shadow trap looked into?

    oh god man shadow trap has been in the back of my mind for a reworking as well.

    It should function like portal just put target directly into that position. Portal on mes has no problems with height (like clocktower) or obstructions but shadow trap hits every single little thing possible. and shadow trap is cooler than portal.

    we must band together to get this skill noticed! i have been on its case for over a year!

    it needs to get noticed idk how such buggy skill goes under the radar. Probably the buggiest in the game.

  • Ithilwen.1529Ithilwen.1529 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 19, 2017

    All around the back path behind mine on Legacy of the Foefire. There seems to be a pattern that LOS for blink doesn't like steps, like stair steps or larger stepped terrain.

    Mesmerizing Girl

  • Saiyan.1704Saiyan.1704 Member ✭✭✭

    Temple of the Silent Storm - I'm constantly teleporting myself through the wooden stairs when targeting a person on Temple node point, instead of landing on the above platform.

  • Zlater.6789Zlater.6789 Member ✭✭✭

    On coliseum, you cant port into the middle from one of the sides. just had a match on herald and I had to walk around :....C

  • To be honest guys, PvP maps are small and i thought NavMesh phrase is a Unity exclusive thingy, but woudlnt it be a better idea to cover the whole map with walkable surface then manually remove the unintended surfaces like rooftops and all(but u might prolly thought about this i guess) anyway thanks for finally working on this, this was one of the main thing (as a theif main) that i no longer playing your game regularly

  • sephiroth.4217sephiroth.4217 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lithril Ashwalker.6230 said:

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:
    Hey folks!

    Finding every spot in a map where nav mesh is broken and preventing teleportation is near impossible for a handful of people. As such, please post in this thread if you find such places in PvP maps. When you receive "No valid path to target."

    We'll be monitoring this post regularly and investigating those locations.

    Thanks!

    does this mean we can get shadow trap looked into?

    +1 please look into shadow trap.... I try to use it but any walls will stop the teleportation.

    Not to brag, but I put together a puzzle in 4 days and the box said 2-4 years.
    CLICK HERE FOR A FREE SCREEN CLEANING SERVICE
    Please allow team queue with rewards again at our own discretion - Playing till last friend leaves.

  • @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @Lithril Ashwalker.6230 said:

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:
    Hey folks!

    Finding every spot in a map where nav mesh is broken and preventing teleportation is near impossible for a handful of people. As such, please post in this thread if you find such places in PvP maps. When you receive "No valid path to target."

    We'll be monitoring this post regularly and investigating those locations.

    Thanks!

    does this mean we can get shadow trap looked into?

    +1 please look into shadow trap.... I try to use it but any walls will stop the teleportation.

    its because its LoS when it shouldnt be ... 10k range and you expect to have full LoS?!? lol.
    also nav mesh interferes with it too at times.

  • Razor.6392Razor.6392 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Just equip Shadow Flare (deadeye utility) and test it around, guarantee it will fail and go on cd after a 'no valid path' message.

    Never said I'm the best, but I believe I'm better than you.

  • Swagg.9236Swagg.9236 Member ✭✭✭

    @Urejt.5648 said:
    can u not run bot or ai to detecit it? such an easy programmable job...

    I wonder. Since the GW2 in-house program that designers used to create terrain is effectively the Wildstar player housing system, a lot of assets are clipped into each other or spaced at various, arbitrary intervals for solely decorative purposes. Due to this, A LOT, and I mean SO MUCH of GW2's "map nav mesh" problems are basically due to certain terrain assets just not aligning in a logical manner with other assets (due to the arbitrary and aesthetically-driven clipping). Every time somebody finds a "no valid path to target" it means that someone has to go into that map, find that area and jiggle little pieces of the map around bit by bit until the game eventually decides that the two target areas in question are now connected. It's an utter mess, and it's really just due to how the engine handles player navigation across terrain (since teleportation isn't really "instantaneously relocate from 'Position A' to 'Position B'" but rather "walk very, very quickly from 'Position A' to "Position B'" (which is why teleporting through ward walls will still trigger the effects of ward walls on the teleporting player).

    If GW2's engine was just more physics based rather than relying entirely on spaghetti scripts to carry all the effects across clipping terrain, then this wouldn't be such an issue. However, this is such a mess than an AI might not even necessarily know what to look for when any given map is just a huge, jerry-rigged mass of clipping assets.

  • Deus Fatorum.2473Deus Fatorum.2473 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 9, 2018

    I would like to add that strafing, jumping, and dodging can and will obstruct/no valid path/ out of range 90% of slow moving projectiles. made this video a while back on reapers touch, it affects way more than that though.

    will be making another video demonstrating more of the slow projectile pathing bugs.

    Full Counter is supposed to counter everything, why else is it called FULL Counter... Just like 100 blades should really hit 100 times so you instantly die to retaliation.

  • I guess this is how anet deals with "no valid path" issues, just adding bridges on Kyhlo so everyone can cross =)

  • Temple of the silent storm

    https://imgur.com/a/j4NTY

  • Ithilwen.1529Ithilwen.1529 Member ✭✭✭✭

    There are continuing issues with any downward slope that is "stepped." One example is running away from lord in Foefire. Also the tent ropes near the side nodes block blink on Foefire.

    More serious, you cannot teleport "through" your targeted enemy display to the top edge of the screen . This blocks many escapes.

    Mesmerizing Girl

  • Abelisk.4527Abelisk.4527 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Updated my list with one I found that's annoying.

    • Legacy of Foefire. Rock next to Quarry can't be teleported to/from.

  • Daishi.6027Daishi.6027 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 14, 2018

    Find the ledge above "Archway" on Revenge of the Capricorn to be fickle in many locations, even from the cap point itself.

    IIRCC many spots between "Graveyard" and "Quarry", and places around "Quarry" on Foe Fire are sometimes unresponsive.

    The wooden stairs/ledge leading up to "Mine" on Forest of Niflhel are inconstant especially the path leading out towards Svanir

    On Temple of the silent storm, the snowy part leading to middle from stillness (on Alter's side) will not allow for ports.

    Glad to see this finally being looked at.

  • shippage.1983shippage.1983 Member ✭✭✭

    Ben is now my favorite dev for finally bringing this issue to light for all these years. It's my #1 issue with the game.

    The glaring obvious one that needs fixing: on Capricorn when you face mid point directly. The entire right side (when looking at minimap) of the walkway above mid is not teleportable. The other side is.

    shippage.1983
    I only PvP so almost all my comments are in a PvP context.

  • Rodzynald.5897Rodzynald.5897 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 16, 2018


    I don't know if this is intended but I don't think it should be that way. It works with every elevation on every platform and pillar you can jump on. However, I can teleport from near the skyhammer portal up to mid point even though it is also a huge difference in height, same with Kylo mid point.
    Because of that it is hard to take down those squishy eles or deadeyes who stay close to those platforms. Well, they can be taken down by ranged shots but many people do not listen to those tips and just melt down in teamfights. If we could teleport to those elevations with target teleports, we could at least have a fair chance to fight back.

    Casual friendly and quality pvp - these two do not work well together.

  • Forsty.7968Forsty.7968 Member ✭✭✭

    https://clips.twitch.tv/LongEncouragingLorisDuDudu Pretty clear issue i suppose, not much to say

  • not really a valid path problem, but still needs to be looked at:

    https://clips.twitch.tv/BenevolentFairSproutPastaThat

  • dDuff.3860dDuff.3860 Member ✭✭✭

    Kyhlo side top ramp is no valid path now.

  • Kicast.1459Kicast.1459 Member ✭✭✭

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:
    Hey folks!

    Finding every spot in a map where nav mesh is broken and preventing teleportation is near impossible for a handful of people. As such, please post in this thread if you find such places in PvP maps. When you receive "No valid path to target."

    We'll be monitoring this post regularly and investigating those locations.

    Thanks!

    Is there first a clear rule on tp ?
    When in theory are we supposed to be able to tp and when not ?

    Then we will be able to say when there is bug.

    I think (read fear)the rule is kind of "when there is a valid path you can use to reach the point without jumping" and "the point is in range by flight"

    An alternative could be... same but the valid path without jumping should be in range as well(hope this is not the case)

    My preferred one which is not the current one for sure:
    Just make sure the point is in range by flight.
    prevent tp in jumping puzzles and that's all.

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