Remember when people thought Firebrand was trash in PvP — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Remember when people thought Firebrand was trash in PvP

jul.7602jul.7602 Member ✭✭✭

Lol....

<13

Comments

  • Jinks.2057Jinks.2057 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Vagrant.7206 said:
    Nobody ever thought it was trash. On the preview weekend, everybody noticed its burning was ludicrous.

    Took a bit longer to recognize the healbot spammer potential, but nobody ever thought it was trash.

    Guessing you didn't ready the Guardian forums huh?

  • Ryan.9387Ryan.9387 Member ✭✭✭

    And still people have their heads in the dirt when it comes to good firebrand builds.

  • @Ryan.9387 said:
    And still people have their heads in the dirt when it comes to good firebrand builds.

    You might want to get your own head out first before making that statement.
    This is you on FB on your own stream getting 1v2'd by mirage (?!?!?! HOW)
    https://clips.twitch.tv/CrazyTenaciousStarlingBudBlast

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭

    It is trash if you are not playing support. I have only seen FB work as dps in one game since PoF release.

    It is op support clearly.

  • Exedore.6320Exedore.6320 Member ✭✭✭

    @Vagrant.7206 said:

    Took a bit longer to recognize the healbot spammer potential, but nobody ever thought it was trash.

    It also required some cooldown and cast time reductions as well as fixing the scaling on F2 tome. The problem with support Firebrand during the preview weekend was the kitten scaling and that it was too easy to lock them down and prevent casts.

  • Alehin.3746Alehin.3746 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 14, 2017

    @Vagrant.7206 said:
    Nobody ever thought it was trash. On the preview weekend, everybody noticed its burning was ludicrous.

    Took a bit longer to recognize the healbot spammer potential, but nobody ever thought it was trash.

    Wrong. Some people still think it's garbage and they want healing on staff 1 to "make firebrand less garbage".

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/6962/guardian-staff-needs-a-serious-rework-suggestions/p1

  • Abelisk.4527Abelisk.4527 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Alehin.3746 said:

    @Vagrant.7206 said:
    Nobody ever thought it was trash. On the preview weekend, everybody noticed its burning was ludicrous.

    Took a bit longer to recognize the healbot spammer potential, but nobody ever thought it was trash.

    Wrong. Some people still think it's garbage and they want healing on staff 1 to "make firebrand less garbage".

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/6962/guardian-staff-needs-a-serious-rework-suggestions/p1

    That's more of a staff revamp, which is kinda a good thing and less of a problem with FB and more of a problem with the weapon itself. Staff works with FB because FB offers on-demand stability for staff channels/casts. Staff doesn't work with core + DH because of that lacking. Also, the auto on staff is just baddd.

  • Darek.1836Darek.1836 Member ✭✭✭

    ppl who werent garbage at the game knew firebrand was better than ele the instant they released pre-pof balance changes

  • choovanski.5462choovanski.5462 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 14, 2017

    @Ludhriq.5490 said:

    @Ryan.9387 said:
    And still people have their heads in the dirt when it comes to good firebrand builds.

    You might want to get your own head out first before making that statement.
    This is you on FB on your own stream getting 1v2'd by mirage (?!?!?! HOW)
    https://clips.twitch.tv/CrazyTenaciousStarlingBudBlast

    has f2 tome off cooldown & elite mantra charged

    gets low on hp in 1v2

    tries to cast symbol of punishment, gets interrupted

    tries to charge heal mantra

    dies

    I'm a punk kid, no reason why
    Nothing finer than the taste of tears running down my face
    Oh cry baby cry, oh cry baby cry oh

  • RabbitUp.8294RabbitUp.8294 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 14, 2017

    @Alehin.3746 said:

    @Vagrant.7206 said:
    Nobody ever thought it was trash. On the preview weekend, everybody noticed its burning was ludicrous.

    Took a bit longer to recognize the healbot spammer potential, but nobody ever thought it was trash.

    Wrong. Some people still think it's garbage and they want healing on staff 1 to "make firebrand less garbage".

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/6962/guardian-staff-needs-a-serious-rework-suggestions/p1

    It's almost like these suggestion have pve in mind, you know the mode where support firebrand is a meme?

    And it's about staff, a weapon that has no clear identity or use, not about firebrand specifically.

  • Alehin.3746Alehin.3746 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 14, 2017

    @RabbitUp.8294 said:

    @Alehin.3746 said:

    @Vagrant.7206 said:
    Nobody ever thought it was trash. On the preview weekend, everybody noticed its burning was ludicrous.

    Took a bit longer to recognize the healbot spammer potential, but nobody ever thought it was trash.

    Wrong. Some people still think it's garbage and they want healing on staff 1 to "make firebrand less garbage".

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/6962/guardian-staff-needs-a-serious-rework-suggestions/p1

    It's almost like these suggestion have pve in mind, you know the mode where support firebrand is a meme?

    And it's about staff, a weapon that has no clear identity or use, not about firebrand specifically.

    A meme because of lack of stuff like spirits + might generation, not healing. You asked for more healing on staff 1 instead of mantra QoL/buffs. That wouldn't make it less of a meme. kek

    @Abelisk.4527 said:
    That's more of a staff revamp, which is kinda a good thing and less of a problem with FB and more of a problem with the weapon itself. Staff works with FB because FB offers on-demand stability for staff channels/casts. Staff doesn't work with core + DH because of that lacking. Also, the auto on staff is just baddd.

    Yeah but the OP from that thread and @RabbitUp.8294 said healing firebrand was a bad support, and it NEEDED staff buffs to be a good healer (healing-wise) like druid or ele, which isn't true, because FB support is a very good off-meta healer. Firebrand support side is overpowered as kitten in PvP/WvW and need nerfs, theres no point in giving staff more healing just because "it isn't good enough for core guard", it will just make heal FB even stronger.

  • Arcaedus.7290Arcaedus.7290 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Abelisk.4527 said:

    @Alehin.3746 said:

    @Vagrant.7206 said:
    Nobody ever thought it was trash. On the preview weekend, everybody noticed its burning was ludicrous.

    Took a bit longer to recognize the healbot spammer potential, but nobody ever thought it was trash.

    Wrong. Some people still think it's garbage and they want healing on staff 1 to "make firebrand less garbage".

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/6962/guardian-staff-needs-a-serious-rework-suggestions/p1

    That's more of a staff revamp, which is kinda a good thing and less of a problem with FB and more of a problem with the weapon itself. Staff works with FB because FB offers on-demand stability for staff channels/casts. Staff doesn't work with core + DH because of that lacking. Also, the auto on staff is just baddd.

    This isn't the reason people want staff buffs. The reason is because for guards currently, staff is a garbage weapon that is underperforming in all 3 game modes.

    On FB being garbage: it actually was garbage until the pre-PoF balance patch. During the demo weekend, I tried a build with 1400 healing power and was about as supportive as a full marauder's druid... the healing on f2 was abyssmal and was one of the things I as well as other guards pushed for the hardest when giving feedback.

  • Staff in pvp is used for all of 1 skill on its bar, the warding line, and the only reason that kitten works is because of the quickness FB gives when exiting tomes and the stab spam which also lets you finish an empower channel every now and then.

    replace staff on support FB with literally another mace/shield set and the performance wouldn't drop off by more than like 10% for the spec overall.

  • Chaith.8256Chaith.8256 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Arcaedus.7290 said:
    This isn't the reason people want staff buffs. The reason is because for guards currently, staff is a garbage weapon that is underperforming in all 3 game modes.

    Underperforming in all 3 game modes you say?

    That's funny, I look at Metabattle and the only meta PvP and WvW builds run staff, there must be some mistake? Because if I'm not mistaken, you have no idea what a garbage weapon is. (Necromancer Focus, Warrior offhand Mace, Engineer Shield)

    That's like me saying they should buff the Engineer's Rifle Hip shot damage by 50% because the weapon is objectively and arbitrarily "bad", but highly represented in meta builds.

    twitch.tv/chaithh
    Forum Lord Chaith

  • Staff is used in the only meta build because its literally one of only 3 support weapons a guardian has and the other 2 are already being used on the swap (mace/shield)

    Staff would still be used in 100% of the meta builds for support if all it had was skill 4 and 5 with 1-3 disabled.

  • started playing support FB during beta. not for a single second did i think it was trash lol. how can a spec that is more tanky than tempest, has more healing, more stability/stunbreaks, quickness and cleanse be trash?

  • Beta FB's tomes had twice the cast time and the mantra range was basically 20% of what it is now and the F2 tome's healing wasn't even half of now, beta FB was trash.

  • Morwath.9817Morwath.9817 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Ooo... Guardian Staff is very good as long as you abuse Quickness from Swift Scholar or Sigil of Agility.

  • @Chaith.8256 said:

    @Darknicrofia.2604 said:
    Staff in pvp is used for all of 1 skill on its bar, the warding line, and the only reason that kitten works is because of the quickness FB gives when exiting tomes and the stab spam which also lets you finish an empower channel every now and then.

    replace staff on support FB with literally another mace/shield set and the performance wouldn't drop off by more than like 10% for the spec overall.

    @Darknicrofia.2604 said:
    Staff is used in the only meta build because its literally one of only 3 support weapons a guardian has and the other 2 are already being used on the swap (mace/shield)

    Staff would still be used in 100% of the meta builds for support if all it had was skill 4 and 5 with 1-3 disabled.

    Agility Sigil on Staff makes Line of Warding or Empower often not reliant on exiting tomes. Altruistic Healing builds utilize the Symbol of Swiftness for self-healing, pre-buffing in PvP and group swiftness in WvW is useless too am I right? I'm not really empathizing with you if you don't want to double tap your Orb of Light even as a .5s cast filler attack when it gives a 2.5k heal and 4s Light Aura in 240 radius.

    Poor, poor Staff Firebrands, comprising 20% of WvW and competitive PvP when there's 9 professions.

    Poor, poor Staff Firebrands, forced to use these dumb filler abilities like Orb of Light and Symbol of Swiftness.

    I hope it's sinking in how spoiled and petulant complaining about "underperforming" Staff (as Arcaedus.7290 puts it) makes you seem, seeing as any net positive power changes will just make the game even more unbalanced.

    What is it you want from Staff, let's hear your suggestions?

    I'm not even on the "make staff lootstick again" bandwagon, I think it serves its purpose just fine, but not to the extent of the "end all be all" pinnacle of support kit you're making it to be.

    Make Empower not self root and front load the swiftness on the symbol is the only change I'd suggest.

  • DalinarKholin.6283DalinarKholin.6283 Member ✭✭
    edited December 14, 2017

    A lot of Firebrand is trash (axe and the idea of playing it as hybrid power and cond dps class) until people figured out how OP the bunker build was. But you can't be serious with the Burning/Offensive Firebrand no one runs a Firebrand seriously as anything but a support bunker.

  • Alehin.3746Alehin.3746 Member ✭✭✭

    @Chaith.8256 said:

    @Darknicrofia.2604 said:
    Staff in pvp is used for all of 1 skill on its bar, the warding line, and the only reason that kitten works is because of the quickness FB gives when exiting tomes and the stab spam which also lets you finish an empower channel every now and then.

    replace staff on support FB with literally another mace/shield set and the performance wouldn't drop off by more than like 10% for the spec overall.

    @Darknicrofia.2604 said:
    Staff is used in the only meta build because its literally one of only 3 support weapons a guardian has and the other 2 are already being used on the swap (mace/shield)

    Staff would still be used in 100% of the meta builds for support if all it had was skill 4 and 5 with 1-3 disabled.

    Agility Sigil on Staff makes Line of Warding or Empower often not reliant on exiting tomes. Altruistic Healing builds utilize the Symbol of Swiftness for self-healing, pre-buffing in PvP and group swiftness in WvW is useless too am I right? I'm not really empathizing with you if you don't want to double tap your Orb of Light even as a .5s cast filler attack when it gives a 2.5k heal and 4s Light Aura in 240 radius.

    Poor, poor Staff Firebrands, comprising 20% of WvW and competitive PvP when there's 9 professions.

    Poor, poor Staff Firebrands, forced to use these dumb filler abilities like Orb of Light and Symbol of Swiftness.

    I hope it's sinking in how spoiled and petulant complaining about "underperforming" Staff (as Arcaedus.7290 puts it) makes you seem, seeing as any net positive power changes will just make the game even more unbalanced.

    What is it you want from Staff, let's hear your suggestions?

    This. I wish people in the forums were honest about their favorite classes, i think guardian is in a nice spot right now in every game mode, it hurts watching people cry over stuff like this. Yeah i think staff could use a rework because the weapon is boring, but everytime i see a discussion about it people just want more heals and boons. Smh.

  • @Chaith.8256 said:

    @Darknicrofia.2604 said:
    Make Empower not self root and front load the swiftness on the symbol is the only change I'd suggest.

    More buffs across the board, nice. Maybe combined with Tuesday's buffs to Merciful Intervention and F2#4, Firebrand will become as viable as Tempest and Ventari supports. One day, guys.

    If you wanted to know what nerfs I'd want, then ask what nerfs I want. Hyperbolic soapboxing is a bad look on you, I've long stated that the Tomes are overbalanced in their boon/cleanse support.

  • Chaith.8256Chaith.8256 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Darknicrofia.2604 said:
    If you wanted to know what nerfs I'd want, then ask what nerfs I want. Hyperbolic soapboxing is a bad look on you, I've long stated that the Tomes are overbalanced in their boon/cleanse support.

    Why would I make an assumption you thought Firebrand should be nerfed in any way? You haven't even hinted as to your opinion on that once.

    @Darknicrofia.2604 said:
    Staff in pvp is used for all of 1 skill on its bar, the warding line, and the only reason that kitten works is because of the quickness FB gives when exiting tomes

    Calling me out for hyperbole :lol:

    twitch.tv/chaithh
    Forum Lord Chaith

  • @Chaith.8256 said:

    @Darknicrofia.2604 said:
    If you wanted to know what nerfs I'd want, then ask what nerfs I want. Hyperbolic soapboxing is a bad look on you, I've long stated that the Tomes are overbalanced in their boon/cleanse support.

    Why would I make an assumption you thought Firebrand should be nerfed in any way? You haven't even hinted as to your opinion on that once.

    So you make assumptions that I only want buffs? Ok carry on then, you're not looking for discussion, you're simply looking for quotes.

  • Arcaedus.7290Arcaedus.7290 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Chaith.8256 said:

    @Arcaedus.7290 said:
    This isn't the reason people want staff buffs. The reason is because for guards currently, staff is a garbage weapon that is underperforming in all 3 game modes.

    Underperforming in all 3 game modes you say?

    That's funny, I look at Metabattle and the only meta PvP and WvW builds run staff, there must be some mistake? Because if I'm not mistaken, you have no idea what a garbage weapon is. (Necromancer Focus, Warrior offhand Mace, Engineer Shield)

    That's like me saying they should buff the Engineer's Rifle Hip shot damage by 50% because the weapon is objectively and arbitrarily "bad", but highly represented in meta builds.

    You can substitute staff out for something else and you really won't notice a large difference in firebrand performance. The core of that firebrand bunker build comes from the Honor traitline + traited tomes + mantra of solace + around 1000 healing power. You can make just about any other substitutions you like and the build is still nigh unkillable and brings ridiculous support to the table.

    Although it is on meta battle and often mentioned as an alternate pick, staff is not the meta in wvw, mace/X + hammer is.

    You're probably upset with current pvp balance, especially with how overtuned FB is but trust me, staff is NOT the reason why, not by a longshot.

    Just for a couple minutes, humor me. I'll make some points that have been previously made and mutually agreed upon time and time again about staff:

    Historically, staff has been a strong choice for guardians in wvw, and on/off in pvp:

    • It was originally intended in this game as a mid-ranged to ranged support weapon.
    • Brought to the table very strong boon support (which has relatively been weakened ever since Herald was introduced)
    • Originally seen as a strong healing weapon due to Altruistic Healing
    • Had potential to deal some damage as part of a condi build, and paired with Permeating Wrath.

    Due to staff nerfs and buffs to other classes, staff has fallen very far from its original design; lets revisit each of those points 1 at a time:

    1. It now offers a single noteworthy ranged skill, which is symbol of swiftness. Otherwise it's very much a melee weapon.
    2. Still brings mediocre boon support, only if specifically built for it, but is superceded by a plethora of other options (staff is comparably much weaker now than it was before).
    3. Healing has not kept up with power-creep. Standing still to cast empower is a major liability, especially in wvw. Skill 2's healing is almost negligible as well.
    4. The ranged nerf essentially converted staff to a melee weapon. For melee weapons to deal damage involves trading hits with foes. Staff can not trade with any other weapon (mainhand or 2h) in the game right now and come out favorably.

    Last but not least, lets discuss staff from a design standpoint: What in your opinion should weapons represent in this game? In my opinion, weapons should offer a strong foundation but only reach maximum potential given a specific build/stats (aka, they become the cornerstone of a build). Staff did just this in the 2012-2015 era of balance but has since fallen far from grace. As of right now, for someone who isn't specced into honor/valor and doesn't have adequate healing power/concentration, staff gives them: Next to no damage (regardless of whether you're condi or power), very poor support that requires coordination (your allies must remain within range to receive might or swiftness), negligible healing and one of the most ignorable and poor CCs in the entire game.

    Once specced into honor/valor and with a healthy amount of healing power, staff goes from complete garbage to a mediocre weapon that doesn't really make for the cornerstone of the build (evidence: replace staff in the bunker guard build with literally anything, see how effective it is).

    You shouldn't require a very specific build AND stats just to make a weapon viable in a select few scenarios in one game mode. To me, that's garbage. Staff is like a very tiny piece of the puzzle that you don't really need to see the entire picture, or a small packet of ketchup that you may or may not want with your burger, or the friend you hang out with when no one else is available. Staff exists for guard and it helps a bit given a very specific build/stats but it's really not outstanding by any means. It needs buffs and preferrably a rework.

  • Chaith.8256Chaith.8256 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Arcaedus.7290 said:
    Staff is NOT the reason why, not by a longshot.
    It needs buffs and preferrably a rework.

    Nobody is coming on to this thread and trying to assert that staff is where a Firebrand's true strength lies, I seriously don't care. My only message to you is that right now buffing or reworking staff which equals a net power increase is insane. The only time I will respect someone's suggestions to buff/rework staff is if it comes paired with suggested nerfs to Firebrand that as a package will make it on par with other supports in PvP/WvW.

    twitch.tv/chaithh
    Forum Lord Chaith

  • Arcaedus.7290Arcaedus.7290 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Chaith.8256 said:
    My only message to you is that right now buffing or reworking staff which equals a net power increase is insane.

    This I'll gladly agree with. The balance team's policy seems to be nerf before buffing something else. FB bunker is overtuned and needs nerfs before buffs.

    I really hope the next time Anet considers doing a skill overhaul during an underused weapons/utilities pass, they don't skip over buffing staff though.

  • Abelisk.4527Abelisk.4527 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Arcaedus.7290 said:

    @Chaith.8256 said:

    @Arcaedus.7290 said:
    This isn't the reason people want staff buffs. The reason is because for guards currently, staff is a garbage weapon that is underperforming in all 3 game modes.

    Underperforming in all 3 game modes you say?

    That's funny, I look at Metabattle and the only meta PvP and WvW builds run staff, there must be some mistake? Because if I'm not mistaken, you have no idea what a garbage weapon is. (Necromancer Focus, Warrior offhand Mace, Engineer Shield)

    That's like me saying they should buff the Engineer's Rifle Hip shot damage by 50% because the weapon is objectively and arbitrarily "bad", but highly represented in meta builds.

    You can substitute staff out for something else and you really won't notice a large difference in firebrand performance. The core of that firebrand bunker build comes from the Honor traitline + traited tomes + mantra of solace + around 1000 healing power. You can make just about any other substitutions you like and the build is still nigh unkillable and brings ridiculous support to the table.

    Although it is on meta battle and often mentioned as an alternate pick, staff is not the meta in wvw, mace/X + hammer is.

    You're probably upset with current pvp balance, especially with how overtuned FB is but trust me, staff is NOT the reason why, not by a longshot.

    Just for a couple minutes, humor me. I'll make some points that have been previously made and mutually agreed upon time and time again about staff:

    Historically, staff has been a strong choice for guardians in wvw, and on/off in pvp:

    • It was originally intended in this game as a mid-ranged to ranged support weapon.
    • Brought to the table very strong boon support (which has relatively been weakened ever since Herald was introduced)
    • Originally seen as a strong healing weapon due to Altruistic Healing
    • Had potential to deal some damage as part of a condi build, and paired with Permeating Wrath.

    Due to staff nerfs and buffs to other classes, staff has fallen very far from its original design; lets revisit each of those points 1 at a time:

    1. It now offers a single noteworthy ranged skill, which is symbol of swiftness. Otherwise it's very much a melee weapon.
    2. Still brings mediocre boon support, only if specifically built for it, but is superceded by a plethora of other options (staff is comparably much weaker now than it was before).
    3. Healing has not kept up with power-creep. Standing still to cast empower is a major liability, especially in wvw. Skill 2's healing is almost negligible as well.
    4. The ranged nerf essentially converted staff to a melee weapon. For melee weapons to deal damage involves trading hits with foes. Staff can not trade with any other weapon (mainhand or 2h) in the game right now and come out favorably.

    Last but not least, lets discuss staff from a design standpoint: What in your opinion should weapons represent in this game? In my opinion, weapons should offer a strong foundation but only reach maximum potential given a specific build/stats (aka, they become the cornerstone of a build). Staff did just this in the 2012-2015 era of balance but has since fallen far from grace. As of right now, for someone who isn't specced into honor/valor and doesn't have adequate healing power/concentration, staff gives them: Next to no damage (regardless of whether you're condi or power), very poor support that requires coordination (your allies must remain within range to receive might or swiftness), negligible healing and one of the most ignorable and poor CCs in the entire game.

    Once specced into honor/valor and with a healthy amount of healing power, staff goes from complete garbage to a mediocre weapon that doesn't really make for the cornerstone of the build (evidence: replace staff in the bunker guard build with literally anything, see how effective it is).

    You shouldn't require a very specific build AND stats just to make a weapon viable in a select few scenarios in one game mode. To me, that's garbage. Staff is like a very tiny piece of the puzzle that you don't really need to see the entire picture, or a small packet of ketchup that you may or may not want with your burger, or the friend you hang out with when no one else is available. Staff exists for guard and it helps a bit given a very specific build/stats but it's really not outstanding by any means. It needs buffs and preferrably a rework.

    How is Light Aura on staff 2 and heals on Empower per pulse a nerf

  • choovanski.5462choovanski.5462 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 15, 2017

    lol people saying empower is a liability to cast when you have tons of quickness & elite stab (which has a lower recharge time than empower lol). do you even know how to play dude?

    it’s an aoe ~6k heal with 12 might, its a good skill. not debatable

    sure you can bring up that you can’t move, & sure that’s bad in wvw- but this is the pvp forum so i dont care. you are bunking a point & babysitting a scourge, moving is not important. you can absolutely afford to cast your elite mantra to cover the skill (since mantra has no cast, you can actually stab yourself mid channel if you see cc coming too, or use the heal mantra’s aegis to block the cc, which actually has a longer duration than the cast time for empower), & give your scourge stab too- while you might him up & heal both of you. it's a great filler heal + buffing skill, its good dude

    ////

    furthermore lets look at the rest of these ‘bad skill that need buffs’

    auto is cone dmg, its meh- but autos are not important for bunker builds, you are not here to spam 1 for dmg, its just filler

    2 is a 2.5k aoe heal that gives light aura (10% reduced condi dmg, & retal) on a 3 sec cooldown. sounds like a pretty good skill dude. sounds worth using to me dude, i mean it heals & reduces condi dmg in aoe, seems great for a bunker

    3 is an aoe that helps you & your scourge rotate because it gives swiftness. you & your scourge are slow af, so this skill is hella useful if you need to go somewhere fast

    4 is empower, i already explained why this skill is good. it’s obvious

    5 is line of warding, its an impassable wall. hella useful

    oh gosh wow, looks like all of these skills look pretty excellent for a bunker build. hot dang bby

    I'm a punk kid, no reason why
    Nothing finer than the taste of tears running down my face
    Oh cry baby cry, oh cry baby cry oh

  • Arcaedus.7290Arcaedus.7290 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Abelisk.4527 said:

    How is Light Aura on staff 2 and heals on Empower per pulse a nerf

    Heals per pulse was good but not much of a buff and light aura on staff 2 is kinda like giving a single dollar to a homeless man, when you made him homeless by stealing half of his savings account (the staff 1 nerf).

  • @choovanski.5462 said:
    lol people saying empower is a liability to cast when you have tons on quickness & elite stab (which has a lower recharge time than empower lol). do you even know how to play dude?

    it’s an aoe ~6k heal with 12 might, its a good skill. not debatable

    sure you can bring up that you can’t move, & sure that’s bad in wvw- but this is the pvp forum so i dont care. you are bunking a point & babysitting a scourge, moving is not important. you can absolutely afford to cast your elite mantra to cover the skill (since matra has no cast, you can actually stab yourself mid channel if you see cc coming too, or use the heal manta’s aegis to block the cc, which actually has a longer duration than the cast time for empower), & give your scourge stab too- while you might him up & heal both of you. it's a great filler heal + buffing skill, its good dude

    The elite mantra is OP as hell and there's no debating that

    But when you have to waste a stunbreak/stab just to ensure you finish channeling your skill, there's likely something wrong with it. Channeled self root skills in general are a relic of the past in pvp/wvw (unless they come with self invuln frames like mes sword #2)

  • Chaith.8256Chaith.8256 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 14, 2017

    @Darknicrofia.2604 said:
    So you make assumptions that I only want buffs? Ok carry on then, you're not looking for discussion, you're simply looking for quotes.

    I assumed nothing and responded to the content of your posts, how are you upset over this :sweat_smile:

    Maybe like, "oops forgot to mention, these suggestions are in the context of Firebrand getting nerfs to tomes etc."

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  • choovanski.5462choovanski.5462 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 14, 2017

    @Darknicrofia.2604 said:

    @choovanski.5462 said:
    lol people saying empower is a liability to cast when you have tons on quickness & elite stab (which has a lower recharge time than empower lol). do you even know how to play dude?

    it’s an aoe ~6k heal with 12 might, its a good skill. not debatable

    sure you can bring up that you can’t move, & sure that’s bad in wvw- but this is the pvp forum so i dont care. you are bunking a point & babysitting a scourge, moving is not important. you can absolutely afford to cast your elite mantra to cover the skill (since matra has no cast, you can actually stab yourself mid channel if you see cc coming too, or use the heal manta’s aegis to block the cc, which actually has a longer duration than the cast time for empower), & give your scourge stab too- while you might him up & heal both of you. it's a great filler heal + buffing skill, its good dude

    The elite mantra is OP as hell and there's no debating that

    But when you have to waste a stunbreak/stab just to ensure you finish channeling your skill, there's likely something wrong with it. Channeled self root skills in general are a relic of the past in pvp/wvw (unless they come with self invuln frames like mes sword #2)

    dude.... i’m going to be blunt here

    using your stab that is on a 15 sec charge recovery to secure AOE 6k healing & 12might is not a waste. it’s called tactics, it’s called covering a high value skill

    as far as relics of the past, dont go & QQ to me about being rooted. i main warrior (never bought PoF, so dont come at me w that OP SB kitten) so i know full well about that. unless you are cleaving a downed, the big damage skill on GS needs to be set up with a CC (headbutt or shield bash). this is not a ‘waste’ of a skill as you call it, it’s called set up, it’s called gameplay depth & it’s something this game sorely needs more of. high value skills that need to be covered or set up, because the enemy will evade or interrupt them are good things to have on pvp games with tons of skills. it raises the skill floor. it’s good design

    look, i get that you don’t want to think & dont want to play well & think about what you’re doing. you just want to pop off 6k heals while invun with your brain turned off, but dude. that doesn’t make for good gameplay

    good gameplay is when skills that do huge aoe damage (100b) or huge aoe heals & buffs (empower) are risky to cast. so you have to either risk it or spend additional cooldowns to lessen the risk of evasion/interruption. highly rewarding skills in pvp should come with high risk, not free invuns. its this kind of ‘risk isnt fun make me invun i want ez wins dont want to think’ that made gw2 the power creeped mess that is is right now

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  • Coolguy.8702Coolguy.8702 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 14, 2017

    Firebrand is trash in pvp, its only its solid support build that makes it seem op.The core and dh builds are objectively better at everything besides support. If Anet caters to you casuals then the support build would become tradh and firebrand would fall down to renegade/deadeye tier

  • RabbitUp.8294RabbitUp.8294 Member ✭✭✭

    @Alehin.3746 said:

    @RabbitUp.8294 said:

    @Alehin.3746 said:

    @Vagrant.7206 said:
    Nobody ever thought it was trash. On the preview weekend, everybody noticed its burning was ludicrous.

    Took a bit longer to recognize the healbot spammer potential, but nobody ever thought it was trash.

    Wrong. Some people still think it's garbage and they want healing on staff 1 to "make firebrand less garbage".

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/6962/guardian-staff-needs-a-serious-rework-suggestions/p1

    It's almost like these suggestion have pve in mind, you know the mode where support firebrand is a meme?

    And it's about staff, a weapon that has no clear identity or use, not about firebrand specifically.

    A meme because of lack of stuff like spirits + might generation, not healing. You asked for more healing on staff 1 instead of mantra QoL/buffs. That wouldn't make it less of a meme. kek

    Spirits are druid-exclusive, yet ventari and tempest don't struggle as much as FB. And tempest can't even stack might, when firebrand can actually stack might, contrary to what you think.

    Yes, the lack of sustained, reliable, at-decent-range healing is very much a problem. All those are not issues in PvP because range doesn't matter whether the game design forces you on capture points and aegis+Pure of Heart are significantly more reliable and impactful, which is a huge buff to pvp firebrand's sustained healing.

    But before talking about buffs, regeneration is a big problem. Guardian is designed to have easy access to permanent regen with just the mace symbol alone. But regen is constantly overwritten by crappier versions, because stacking is based on duration, and guardian's duration is extremely short. So, despite having something like the mace symbol, and the mace weapon being balanced around that regen access, guardian is forced to slot crappy utilities to get regen from other sources. I would start by reworking regeneration before considering targeted buffs.

    That been said, my suggestion was never to just directly buff staff. Guardian reeks of old design, when group healing was not allowed to be relevant. They have healing on mace, shield, staff, focus and random utilities. In an ideal world, all those weapons would have a more defined identity. Make staff the dedicated healing weapon and mace the dedicated defensive/tanking weapon. Remove the healing on mace auto, or make it a self-heal only and put that healing on staff.

    And this isn't even a fair discussion. I was never ok with firebrand's design, and I'm not going to defend it. It's a complete trainwreck that I would gladly see deleted from the game without compensation. It only serves to hold guardian back, case in point keeping staff in the dumpster because it would be a buff to PvP firebrand.

  • RabbitUp.8294RabbitUp.8294 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 14, 2017

    @choovanski.5462 said:
    auto is cone dmg, its meh- but autos are not important for bunker builds, you are not here to spam 1 for dmg, its just filler

    Bunker builds, huh? Is there bunkering in pve, because as it was said again and again, the staff rework thread was primarily a pve discussion.

    2 is a 2.5k aoe heal that gives light aura (10% reduced condi dmg, & retal) on a 3 sec cooldown. sounds like a pretty good skill dude.

    Of course it sounds pretty good, too bad it's not the real skill, though. The cooldown increases to 9sec if you use the sequence skill and it's extremely clunky, with the orb flying directly to the ground and disappearing if you don't have an enemy targeted or turn your camera, which makes it much harder to heal allies with when the skill becomes effectively enemy targeted. The suggestion have been focused on fixing that clunkiness by making it a ground-targeted skill (like Rev shield 4), not buffing its numbers.

    3 is an aoe that helps you & your scourge rotate because it gives swiftness. you & your scourge are slow af, so this skill is hella useful if you need to go somewhere fast

    The symbol is pure filler after the introduction of tomes. It's useful in the sense that it's better than a dead button.

    4 is empower, i already explained why this skill is good. it’s obvious

    Yes, Empower is good.

    5 is line of warding, its an impassable wall. hella useful

    And complete, utterly useless in pve. It literally has no use 99% of the time.

    oh gosh wow, looks like all of these skills look pretty excellent for a bunker build. hot dang bby

    Oh geez, look how this weapon is solely carried by one skill for pve healer guardian. At the state he staff is currently at, I would gladly have it removed from the game and Empower made into a utility skill.

  • choovanski.5462choovanski.5462 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 14, 2017

    @RabbitUp.8294

    why are you talking about pve in the pvp forum, in a thread thats specifically about firebrand’s performance in pvp?

    why do you think talking about pve when i’m obviously talking about pvp (bunkers, pvp forum etc) is anything like a relevant or effective argument?

    if you’re going to try & be clever & say that you were talking about pve the whole time so im wrong to talk about pvp- i would like to remind you of a few things. this is the wrong place to talk about pve. also other people in this thread have said staff is garbage & underperforming in all game modes, which includes pvp. so since i wasn’t replying to one of your asinine pve posts it should be obvious that i’m talking about pvp, you know with this being the pvp forum.

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  • RabbitUp.8294RabbitUp.8294 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 15, 2017

    @choovanski.5462 said:
    @RabbitUp.8294

    why are you talking about pve in the pvp forum, in a thread thats specifically about firebrand’s performance in pvp?

    why do you think talking about pve when i’m obviously talking about pvp (bunkers, pvp forum etc) is anything like a relevant or effective argument?

    if you’re going to try & be clever & say that you were talking about pve the whole time so im wrong to talk about pvp- i would like to remind you of a few things. this is the wrong place to talk about pve. also other people in this thread have said staff is garbage & underperforming in all game modes, which includes pvp. so since i wasn’t replying to one of your asinine pve posts it should be obvious that i’m talking about pvp, you know with this being the pvp forum.

    This thread and subforum may be about pvp, but the staff thread that was linked and started the whole staff discussion was about pve. It seems to me you are the one who has their game modes all mixed up.

  • Cynz.9437Cynz.9437 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 15, 2017

    @Chaith.8256 said:

    @Darknicrofia.2604 said:
    Make Empower not self root and front load the swiftness on the symbol is the only change I'd suggest.

    More buffs across the board, nice. Maybe combined with Tuesday's buffs to Merciful Intervention and F2#4, Firebrand will become as viable as Tempest and Ventari supports. One day, guys.

    The sarcasm in this one broke my internet.

    Can anyone remember patch when guards couldn't successfully run multiple builds in pvp (possibly not in tourney but at least in ranked)?

    GW is P2Win. We are always lied to.

  • Alehin.3746Alehin.3746 Member ✭✭✭

    @RabbitUp.8294 said:

    @Alehin.3746 said:

    @RabbitUp.8294 said:

    @Alehin.3746 said:

    @Vagrant.7206 said:
    Nobody ever thought it was trash. On the preview weekend, everybody noticed its burning was ludicrous.

    Took a bit longer to recognize the healbot spammer potential, but nobody ever thought it was trash.

    Wrong. Some people still think it's garbage and they want healing on staff 1 to "make firebrand less garbage".

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/6962/guardian-staff-needs-a-serious-rework-suggestions/p1

    It's almost like these suggestion have pve in mind, you know the mode where support firebrand is a meme?

    And it's about staff, a weapon that has no clear identity or use, not about firebrand specifically.

    A meme because of lack of stuff like spirits + might generation, not healing. You asked for more healing on staff 1 instead of mantra QoL/buffs. That wouldn't make it less of a meme. kek

    Spirits are druid-exclusive, yet ventari and tempest don't struggle as much as FB. And tempest can't even stack might, when firebrand can actually stack might, contrary to what you think.

    FB don't struggle with healing and defensive utilities. Also i know firebrand can stack (some) might and have 100% quickness uptime, i play that on fractals when my party can't find a chrono. I think i talked about this in the other thread.

    Yes, the lack of sustained, reliable, at-decent-range healing is very much a problem. All those are not issues in PvP because range doesn't matter whether the game design forces you on capture points and aegis+Pure of Heart are significantly more reliable and impactful, which is a huge buff to pvp firebrand's sustained healing.

    If you're not stacking on the druid you're not getting might/heal, so why are you think firebrand, a melee healer, would be different? If you want to play a ranged healer so bad you can play staff tempest, it's pretty good too. I wish we had another option other pure of heart tho, that might trait could be reworked into a heal per second trait or something like that.

    But before talking about buffs, regeneration is a big problem. Guardian is designed to have easy access to permanent regen with just the mace symbol alone. But regen is constantly overwritten by crappier versions, because stacking is based on duration, and guardian's duration is extremely short. So, despite having something like the mace symbol, and the mace weapon being balanced around that regen access, guardian is forced to slot crappy utilities to get regen from other sources. I would start by reworking regeneration before considering targeted buffs.

    The regeneration meme needs to be changed but it isn't that bad for minstrel/harrier firebrand, because of Legendary Lore + Mantra of Lore. Iirc the only thing that can outlast those sources of guardian's regeneration is signet of inspiration from chronos or heaing spring and warhorn 5 from a harrier+dwayna druid, but you wouldn't have a druid in your subparty anyways. Plus, you use mace symbol to proc Writ of Persistence's healing if you picked that instead of Force of Will.

    That been said, my suggestion was never to just directly buff staff. Guardian reeks of old design, when group healing was not allowed to be relevant. They have healing on mace, shield, staff, focus and random utilities. In an ideal world, all those weapons would have a more defined identity. Make staff the dedicated healing weapon and mace the dedicated defensive/tanking weapon. Remove the healing on mace auto, or make it a self-heal only and put that healing on staff.

    Ehhh, no, staff is boring and all the other healers already use staff. I rather have them buff/rework mace for more healing than making guard a "ranged healer". Also isn't "organizing" utilities on the same weapon a bad thing for the game? Like, imagine if all thief's evade weapon skills were put in staff instead of 1 or 2 per weapon?

    And this isn't even a fair discussion. I was never ok with firebrand's design, and I'm not going to defend it. It's a complete trainwreck that I would gladly see deleted from the game without compensation. It only serves to hold guardian back, case in point keeping staff in the dumpster because it would be a buff to PvP firebrand.

    Ouch! Right on the feels.

    Sorry for the off-topic posts, pvp bois.

  • RabbitUp.8294RabbitUp.8294 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 15, 2017

    @Alehin.3746 said:
    FB don't struggle with healing and defensive utilities. Also i know firebrand can stack (some) might and have 100% quickness uptime, i play that on fractals when my party can't find a chrono. I think i talked about this in the other thread.

    Again, your argument is just that, FB is fine because I say it's fine. You can't prove that FB doesn't struggle, but I can prove that FB is easily the worst pve healer based on group presense alone. Tempest and Ventari see a lot more use than Firebrand.

    FB can maintain 25 might with scepter+staff+Mantra of Potence and enough boon duration. The problem, like everything else the class does, is limited range.

    If you're not stacking on the druid you're not getting might/heal, so why are you think firebrand, a melee healer, would be different? If you want to play a ranged healer so bad you can play staff tempest, it's pretty good too. I wish we had another option other pure of heart tho, that might trait could be reworked into a heal per second trait or something like that.

    There's a big difference between stacking for optimal results, and mandatory stacking for a build to even function. And it's not about the group stacking on the healer, but the healer stacking on the group. There are mechanics that split the group, having range means that druid can throw a 1200-range Lunar Impact without leaving the group. So, range actually helps you stack better.

    And what kind of an argument is that guardian is a melee healer? What's the compensation for that? You can't just say, oh it's the flavour of the class, guardian is melee, but everything else stays the same. Even their unique (among healers) access to quickness is matched by Ventari's alacrity. And quickness (and alacrity) are a lot less impactful when chrono exists, while ventari and druid actually have unique buffs in the form of Assassin's Presense and spirits.

    So, again, what does guardian get as compensation for limited range and mobility? Aegis walks a fine line between "healing by another name" and its own unique thing, but in cases where aegis can make a difference, dps firebrand can provide it just as well. So, the only real thing is stability, and that's extremely niche in pve.

    The regeneration meme needs to be changed but it isn't that bad for minstrel/harrier firebrand, because of Legendary Lore + Mantra of Lore. Iirc the only thing that can outlast those sources of guardian's regeneration is signet of inspiration from chronos or heaing spring and warhorn 5 from a harrier+dwayna druid, but you wouldn't have a druid in your subparty anyways. Plus, you use mace symbol to proc Writ of Persistence's healing if you picked that instead of Force of Will.

    Mantra of Lore is exactly the "crappy utility" I had in mind when I made that argument, the other being Hold the Line. Guardian should not have to use these for regen when they use mace. Otherwise, remove regen from mace and buff its healing to compensate. And Mantra of Lore is 5s, which means it will be constantly being overwritten every 3s by a chrono's Illusionary Inspiration with >66% boon duration. So, guardian would have to invest in boon duration, which they have no reason to do so in a chrono group.

    So, to sum up, Guardian needs to stack boon duration and use dead utilities to get what they already have baseline, just because regen works so badly.

    Ehhh, no, staff is boring and all the other healers already use staff. I rather have them buff/rework mace for more healing than making guard a "ranged healer". Also isn't "organizing" utilities on the same weapon a bad thing for the game? Like, imagine if all thief's evade weapon skills were put in staff instead of 1 or 2 per weapon?

    Then what would staff do? Mace can have an identity besides healing with the existing skills, staff would need a full rework regardless, because it would just being another healing weapon competing with mace.

    Bad comparison. Evader is not a role, healer is.

  • Alehin.3746Alehin.3746 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 15, 2017

    @RabbitUp.8294 said:

    @Alehin.3746 said:

    FB can maintain 25 might with scepter+staff+Mantra of Potence and enough boon duration. The problem, like everything else the class does, is limited range.

    Because you really need 1200 range all the time, right?

    If you're not stacking on the druid you're not getting might/heal, so why are you think firebrand, a melee healer, would be different? If you want to play a ranged healer so bad you can play staff tempest, it's pretty good too. I wish we had another option other pure of heart tho, that might trait could be reworked into a heal per second trait or something like that.

    There's a big difference between stacking for optimal results, and mandatory stacking for a build to even function. And it's not about the group stacking on the healer, but the healer stacking on the group. There are mechanics that split the group, having range means that druid can throw a 1200-range Lunar Impact without leaving the group. So, range actually helps you stack better.

    Yeah thats why i don't play heal guard in all bosses, i said that before. But you want to stay stacked with you healer pretty much all the time for maximum efficiency, it is mandatory for druids too because you can't even stack CA or provite might if you're not next to them healing with trap/glyph and using staff 5-3 and 2. Like i rather play druid on VG, where sometimes i need to throw heals at the pugs, but i rather play firebrand on matthias where i can solo-reflect and spam stability and resistance for the bois.

    And what kind of an argument is that guardian is a melee healer? What's the compensation for that? You can't just say, oh it's the flavour of the class, guardian is melee, but everything else stays the same. Even their unique (among healers) access to quickness is matched by Ventari's alacrity. And quickness (and alacrity) are a lot less impactful when chrono exists, while ventari and druid actually have unique buffs in the form of Assassin's Presense and spirits.
    So, again, what does guardian get as compensation for limited range and mobility? Aegis walks a fine line between "healing by another name" and its own unique thing, but in cases where aegis can make a difference, dps firebrand can provide it just as well. So, the only real thing is stability, and that's extremely niche in pve.

    Mace is the guardian's main healing weapon and pretty much all tome skills are melee range, isnt that called "melee"? The compensation is having a lot of defensive utility and a lot of healing per second for your group. You don't need more than that to be a decent healer.

    The regeneration meme needs to be changed but it isn't that bad for minstrel/harrier firebrand, because of Legendary Lore + Mantra of Lore. Iirc the only thing that can outlast those sources of guardian's regeneration is signet of inspiration from chronos or heaing spring and warhorn 5 from a harrier+dwayna druid, but you wouldn't have a druid in your subparty anyways. Plus, you use mace symbol to proc Writ of Persistence's healing if you picked that instead of Force of Will.

    Mantra of Lore is exactly the "crappy utility" I had in mind when I made that argument, the other being Hold the Line. Guardian should not have to use these for regen when they use mace. Otherwise, remove regen from mace and buff its healing to compensate. And Mantra of Lore is 5s, which means it will be constantly being overwritten every 3s by a chrono's Illusionary Inspiration with >66% boon duration. So, guardian would have to invest in boon duration, which they have no reason to do so in a chrono group.

    Crappy utility that makes it even easier to maintain renegeration on your group the entire time? You don't really need it, but let's rework it then, lets give it the old GOTL effect, because all we need is more powercreep. lul

    So, to sum up, Guardian needs to stack boon duration and use dead utilities to get what they already have baseline, just because regen works so badly.

    Guardian invest in boon duration because harrier is the best healer set for them atm, just like druids. What were you using when(if) you tried heal guard? Cleric? Zealot? lol

    Ehhh, no, staff is boring and all the other healers already use staff. I rather have them buff/rework mace for more healing than making guard a "ranged healer". Also isn't "organizing" utilities on the same weapon a bad thing for the game? Like, imagine if all thief's evade weapon skills were put in staff instead of 1 or 2 per weapon?

    Then what would staff do? Mace can have an identity besides healing with the existing skills, staff would need a full rework regardless, because it would just being another healing weapon competing with mace.

    Buffs. Maybe a unique % damage boost buff or something like ashes of the just? Or something similar to necro's staff marks but for allies?

    Bad comparison. Evader is not a role, healer is.

    I didn't say that. Evasion is a mechanic, just like healing and shouldn't be stacked all in one weapon, we already have tome of virtues.

    Again, your argument is just that, FB is fine because I say it's fine. You can't prove that FB doesn't struggle, but I can prove that FB is easily the worst pve healer based on group presense alone. Tempest and Ventari see a lot more use than Firebrand.

    Why didn't you prove it then? I say FB is fine because i play it 80% of my raids since PoF launch and i've never had a problem with healing issues even with another condi druid or my friend's meme-heal warrior. People with the "omg only 1 druid??? we gonna dieeee" atittude always get surprised how nicely and smooth the raid goes. If you want you can join me and my friends and see by yourself, just let me know if you want to do that and we can invite you the next time we group up for raids.

  • Ryan.9387Ryan.9387 Member ✭✭✭

    @NotoriousNaru.1705 said:

    @Ryan.9387 said:
    And still people have their heads in the dirt when it comes to good firebrand builds.

    This coming from someone who I basically just 500-50'd like 15mins ago in an AT because he ran mender's firebrand with axe AND took 1v1s against necros on their nodes. Its on stream too btw. You my good sir have your head in the dirt when it comes not only to firebrand builds, but the firebrand role aswell.

    The game was over, so I make wrong rotations to practice. Practice 1v1ing etc. When I see something I learn my limits by fighting it.

    Anyhow, I don't really need to defend my play to someone who completely failed in ranked without duoing and cheating. Tell new when you hit rank one on your own merit.

    Tbh its almost impressive that you are still strut around shamelessly after getting half your accounts permabanned from pvp. Any sentient person would probably take that as some kind of wake up call.

    Anyway support firebrand imo is horribly overpowered. I think removing retal from the elite and upping all mantras ICDs to 15s is a good start.

  • @Ryan.9387 said:

    @NotoriousNaru.1705 said:

    @Ryan.9387 said:
    And still people have their heads in the dirt when it comes to good firebrand builds.

    This coming from someone who I basically just 500-50'd like 15mins ago in an AT because he ran mender's firebrand with axe AND took 1v1s against necros on their nodes. Its on stream too btw. You my good sir have your head in the dirt when it comes not only to firebrand builds, but the firebrand role aswell.

    The game was over, so I make wrong rotations to practice. Practice 1v1ing etc. When I see something I learn my limits by fighting it.

    Anyhow, I don't really need to defend my play to someone who completely failed in ranked without duoing and cheating. Tell new when you hit rank one on your own merit.

    Tbh its almost impressive that you are still strut around shamelessly after getting half your accounts permabanned from pvp. Any sentient person would probably take that as some kind of wake up call.

    Anyway support firebrand imo is horribly overpowered. I think removing retal from the elite and upping all mantras ICDs to 15s is a good start.

    https://clips.twitch.tv/CrazyTenaciousStarlingBudBlast

    You come on these forums claiming people have their heads in the dirt about firebrand because they don't run your mediocre build when it is basically a meme build that no competitive player would run. Then, you get exposed by this clip where you make a rotation to 2v1 a SB v Mirage 1v1. That rotation in itself was a "throw" but the fact that you died on top of that and proceeded to blame your warrior for "not pressing F" was the cherry on top. For your skill level you should not be talking to anyone about anything game related. Anyone that watches the clip I linked will know exactly why.

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