Remove mystic coins from Wintersday rune and sigil promotion forge recipes

These recipes are outdated and the mystic coins are a completely unnecessary component. I am speaking from a Winter's Presence point of view right now. The sigils and runes dropped pretty commonly in the past, but now they are all but the rarest of drops forcing people to buy or make them. Which of course is only adding the rising price of mystic coins and in turn the runes and sigils. Mystic coins are already a very sore spot for me and have been source of aggravation for quite some time. So I guess another solution would be to just shower us with mystic coins so I wouldn't care about the recipes. Ya, that could work

The coins are adding value to the Skin.Making Winter’s Presence came with the ~1100g price tag, when introduced, the 10k Drinks were the bulk of that, now it’s these runes/sigils. You will not get it cheap either way if a rework were to happen.

@Haleydawn.3764 said:The coins are adding value to the Skin.Making Winter’s Presence came with the ~1100g price tag, when introduced, the 10k Drinks were the bulk of that, now it’s these runes/sigils. You will not get it cheap either way if a rework were to happen.

So you mean we can get the 10k drinks for free now were is my 10k drinks to bring it down to around 1100g

@Linken.6345 said:

@"Haleydawn.3764" said:The coins are adding value to the Skin.Making Winter’s Presence came with the ~1100g price tag, when introduced, the 10k Drinks were the bulk of that, now it’s these runes/sigils. You will not get it cheap either way if a rework were to happen.

The 10k drinks were worth 1000 gold in early Wintersday 2016. As I type, they are about 230 gold. That's not "free", but that's a huge discount compared to last year.(When introduced, it was closer to 850 gold for drinks alone. The sigils and runes were cheap.)

The point is: it's a shiny prestige item; it's meant to be expensive. If it wasn't the runes|sigils, it would be something else.

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

@Linken.6345 said:

@"Haleydawn.3764" said:The coins are adding value to the Skin.Making Winter’s Presence came with the ~1100g price tag, when introduced, the 10k Drinks were the bulk of that, now it’s these runes/sigils. You will not get it cheap either way if a rework were to happen.

Exactly. It's an either or, but the price of the item itself has it's value sustained, just in a different way.

@Evil Octopi.8253 said:These recipes are outdated and the mystic coins are a completely unnecessary component.

I dont think the recipes are outdated because both got adjusted this wintersday, switching from the old snowflakes to the new ones.

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:The point is: it's a shiny prestige item; it's meant to be expensive. If it wasn't the runes|sigils, it would be something else.

Prestige is pretty weak answer. If anything, prestige is about accomplishment, not price.

@Wanze.8410 said:

@Evil Octopi.8253 said:These recipes are outdated and the mystic coins are a completely unnecessary component.

You are right, outdated was a poor choice of words. And while they did get adjusted, it wasn't because they Anet reevaluated the recipe components. The reason they updated them was because of the snowflake replacement and they had too. I guess I really can't discount the possibility they did look at mystic coins and said its fine, but if they did, grrrrrrrrr....

My point really, is that mystic coins should have never been the added to the promotion recipes in the first place. I cant think of any other promotion recipe that uses mystic coins. They reduced the drop rate of the sigils and runes to almost nothing, forcing the promotion recipe or trading post for progress on the collection. They just didn't adjust the coin component to compensate. If they were looking for the promotion recipe to be a sink, mystic coins is terrible choice. A hugely better choice would have been Bloodstone Bricks, Dragonite Ingots, Empyreal Stars. Solid gold sinks, and a solid mat sink for those ascended mats. You know, the mats so many people were drowning in that they had to add like 10 eaters just to deal with them.

Honestly, I'd rather they just adjust the tables of the presents.

First, move both sigils (generosity and Mischief) to the uncommon category. The rare table is utterly over bloated with items.2nd, add in sup snowfall rune to uncommon.

call it done. This would bring it closer in line to how gathering was done in previous years keeping it more fair for new players even though some of the older forumites seem to not care about fairness, holding onto spending gold and flaunting it vs. helping the joy of others or at least encouragement in achieving their goals.

... some people are so stingy during Wintersday.

@Evil Octopi.8253 said:

@"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:The point is: it's a shiny prestige item; it's meant to be expensive. If it wasn't the runes|sigils, it would be something else.

"Prestige" is about having things that other people can't easily acquire. It can be about price or about accomplishment. Regardless, it was designed to be expensive.

@Evil Octopi.8253 said:My point really, is that mystic coins should have never been the added to the promotion recipes in the first place.

When they added the recipe, mystic coins were still 5-20s.

@OneYenShort.3189 said:Honestly, I'd rather they just adjust the tables of the presents.

First, move both sigils (generosity and Mischief) to the uncommon category. The rare table is utterly over bloated with items.2nd, add in sup snowfall rune to uncommon.

This I can agree with, since both runes dropped pretty regularly when WP was introduced.

some of the older forumites seem to not care about fairness, holding onto spending gold and flaunting it

Hmm, what? There’s asking for fairness, then there’s asking for give outs. WP always came with a high price tag, whether it was the coins or the drinks. So realistically to be fair it still has to cost ~1100g, why should players get hand outs when other players still paid the price?

some people are so needy during Wintersday

97% of mystic coins i will have to buy from TP. Amalgamated gemstone i can "slow but sure" acquire, but for these coin, i just need gold! It's legendary like item and players have 1 month of time to acquire. Legendary in the month :DDD
You would say - you had a week, why you did not exploit rose quartz? or You are still able make gold by doing events all over the world.
Ok, i know events that brings gold. But the name of item is Winter's Presence. Winter's, not Gold's or Grind's. To achieve Winter's Presence i will have to do events that have nothing in common with Wintersday. I know i can get 90% of fancy items with gold. But I don't wanna end up, collecting gold only. It's so cynical...

@Haleydawn.3764 said:This I can agree with, since both runes dropped pretty regularly when WP was introduced.

That actually not true. The Sigils and Runes got introduced with WD 2014 and during that year, they actually dropped like candy.

WP got introduced with WD 2015 and there they already scratched most of the faucets for for the runes and sigils.

@Nilson.9865 said:but for these coin, i just need gold! It's legendary like item and players have 1 month of time to acquire. Legendary in the month :DDD

You can forge the essences of snowfall and mischief all year round.

@Wanze.8410 said:You can forge the essences of snowfall and mischief all year round.

Why don't you state the full story vs. a quarter of it.Yes, players have the ability to craft them all year long IF they actually have the supplies. Given the vendor of the minor sigil/runes only is present during the event, there is a limited time.Knowing you, you'll say the TP has plenty and people have trees in their home instance to keep the market supplied. Well if a sample of 25,000 wintersday gifts only resulted in 2 runes dropped, that is a pretty damn low way to supply the market with only one of the sigils needed.

@OneYenShort.3189 said:

@Wanze.8410 said:You can forge the essences of snowfall and mischief all year round.

I wasnt posting a story, I replied to another user, who seemed to be under the impression that he can only finish the rune/sigil requirement for WP during wintersday, which isnt the case.

@OneYenShort.3189 said:you'll say the TP has plenty and people have trees in their home instance to keep the market supplied. Well if a sample of 25,000 wintersday gifts only resulted in 2 runes dropped, that is a pretty kitten low way to supply the market with only one of the sigils needed.

One thing people are forgetting is that the demand for sigils is relatively low and diminishes each year. @OneYenShort.3189 is perfectly correct that a few runes/sigils per 25k gifts is a really, really low volume faucet. But any given person only needs 50 of each once. After the collection is completed, they will never need any more again. So the question is more along the lines of:

• How many people are still working on the sigil/rune parts of the collection?
• How many people are still opening presents?
• What price are hoarders/speculators willing to accept? What price are achievement hunters willing to spend?

In short: It doesn't matter if the supply (from gifts & hoarding) is decreasing, as long as the demand is decreasing at a similar pace.

The best evidence we have that the demand is decreasing is that the price of drinks has tanked: it's barely half what it was in previous years. Clearly, the drinks are easier to obtain, but we need more of them. Currently, Masterful Toast costs 190 gold; in past years it was over 700 gold. This year, Essence of Mischief costs 440g & Snowfall 280g; in previous years, those were much less.

Current cost of making the skin: under 1000g. Previous year costs: 900-1300g, depending on when.

In short, the cost of making the skin hasn't changed much over time (it's a bit cheaper right now than in other years, during Wintersday). It might turn out later that costs go way up, because maybe ANet made a mistake estimating how quickly the rune & sigil supply would dry up. But maybe not. It's too soon to say that there is a problem. At worst, there might be a problem and only if there's a series of unfortunate events.

@"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:The best evidence we have that the demand is decreasing is that the price of drinks has tanked: it's barely half what it was in previous years. Clearly, the drinks are easier to obtain, but we need more of them. Currently, Masterful Toast costs 190 gold; in past years it was over 700 gold. This year, Essence of Mischief costs 440g & Snowfall 280g; in previous years, those were much less.

Anecdotal comments: People that would other wise be wanting the skin may have given up given the current drop status of sigil (mischief), and lack of rune (snowfall) dropping. This too could decrease demand of drinks.It is still just the first week of wintersday. Two more weeks to go. (I think it was supposed to last 3 weeks this season.)

Wasn't it last season that it was decided that the drinking achievement could be done year round.I want to say the gifts could have also dropped the runes/sigils but I think I'm wrong on that. So with the shift of gold sink long pole it would be nice if the vendor then could be around year long to provide a source of at least minor runes/sigils. Halloween items don't have this issue because the sigils needed are craftable. Just takes candy corn. Also that vendor is there year round for part of the "sales."

I just wish they'd add the sigils back to gift drops. They do drop from the Evon Gnashblade Gifts drop them as Very Rare drops...I got 2 out of 50 of those. And that 7~8g / sigil price tag is just insane...that is almost 400G for 50 mischief, more than that for snowfall.

@moonstarmac.4603 said:I just wish they'd add the sigils back to gift drops. They do drop from the Evon Gnashblade Gifts drop them as Very Rare drops...I got 2 out of 50 of those. And that 7~8g / sigil price tag is just insane...that is almost 400G for 50 mischief, more than that for snowfall.

They do drop from gifts. You can preview in game and see them in the list of possible drops. Only the Superior Rune of Snowfall is craft/promotion only.

Adding the minor runes/sigils to Sonder the Seller isn’t a bad idea.

The essential point remains: the demand decreases over time, so it's ultimately not a problem if the supply is decreasing, too. There's only an issue if the supply shrinks at a substantially more rapid rate than the demand does. Without any direct way to measure the actual supply (we only see the TP's sell offers) and no way to measure actual demand (except by comparing prices of things that haven't change supply much), we are left with guessing. Some guesses are plausible, some implausible.

@OneYenShort.3189 said:

@"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:The best evidence we have that the demand is decreasing is that the price of drinks has tanked: it's barely half what it was in previous years. Clearly, the drinks are easier to obtain, but we need more of them. Currently,

Masterful Toast

costs 190 gold; in past years it was over 700 gold. This year,

Essence of Mischief

costs 440g &

Snowfall

280g; in previous years, those were much less.

The price of drinks is far, far, far less than it's been during Wintersday. Yet the total expense remains about the same. It's certainly possibly that people are giving up because of rune/sigil price, but that was true in 2015 and 2016 with regards to the cost (and endless clicking) for the drinks. The data isn't anecdotal; we just don't know the exact reasons.

Wasn't it last season that it was decided that the drinking achievement could be done year round.The drinking achievement, the rune/sigil achievement, and everything except the wintersday event elements... those could always be done year round (it was unclear to some in 2015 and unclear to a few others in 2016).

I want to say the gifts could have also dropped the runes/sigils but I think I'm wrong on that. So with the shift of gold sink long pole it would be nice if the vendor then could be around year long to provide a source of at least minor runes/sigils. Halloween items don't have this issue because the sigils needed are craftable. Just takes candy corn. Also that vendor is there year round for part of the "sales."

And my point is that ANet is almost certainly looking at the overall price of the collection, and not tied down to thinking there's a 'reasonable' price for any specific component. The drinks are cheap so they reduced the supply on the runes/sigils.

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:And my point is that ANet is almost certainly looking at the overall price of the collection, and not tied down to thinking there's a 'reasonable' price for any specific component. The drinks are cheap so they reduced the supply on the runes/sigils.

I did say the comments were anecdotal, but yours here... You are putting the effect before the cause happened. I mean you are saying that anet knew drinking was going to be lack luster so they killed off a steady supply of runes and sigils before hand? If that is true, that is reads as if they know they aren't getting new players at all to keep the game alive. Which is pretty... well, bad honestly.

@OneYenShort.3189 said:

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:And my point is that ANet is almost certainly looking at the overall price of the collection, and not tied down to thinking there's a 'reasonable' price for any specific component. The drinks are cheap so they reduced the supply on the runes/sigils.

No, it reads nothing like that. It means that they predicted that lots of people working on it were completing the drinks collection because, as it turns out, the issue was the clicking, not the price. Now that so many people have completed that... and since the drop rate from gifts is the same, the price for drinks was destined to drop. We've been seeing that trend for a while. It's true of every MMO that there are fewer people entering the game over time; it's very rare for a game to draw in enough new players each year to account for the same demand for one-time collections.

ANet has to look at the big picture, which includes long term trends and overall prices. And I'm speculating about the cause. I'm assuming that ANet thought a lot about this because: (a) they say they do generally, (b) they have had tons of feedback about mystic coins and recipes generally, © they got tons of feedback last year about the sigil/rune needed, and (d) because speculators saw these trends coming, so it's hard (for me) to imagine they didn't.

As to sources: last year, Mischief/Snowfall didn't drop from gifts at all; this year, they do (albeit in minuscule numbers). The 2015 sources (e.g Cold Weather containers) were nerfed last year, not this year.

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:As to sources: last year, Mischief/Snowfall didn't drop from gifts at all; this year, they do (albeit in minuscule numbers). The 2015 sources (e.g Cold Weather containers) were nerfed last year, not this year.

Iirc, Cold Weather Conquerors selections/ kits were nerfed in 2015, but all the rune rarities dropped very frequently from the tiny/small/giant Wintersday gifts up until the WD patch 2015 (which you have to double click to get a Wintersday gift from, because they were all changed to Dusty Old Wintersday Gifts, to stream line it into just ‘Wintersday Gift’) by this point there was an over abundance of these runes/sigils. Superior Rune of Snowfall doesn’t drop at all, still.

Either way, maybe it was supposed to happen to maintain the value of Winter’s Presence. That’s what I’m thinking.

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:No, it reads nothing like that.Actually it does. That said, your follow on post is a lot more clear of what you were intending to say. For that I thank you. I'd respond further but I think we've tangented into opinions of anet's competence and future outlook of the game which is not the topic of the op.

BTW snowfall does not drop at all from what I've been able to decern. Only Generosity and Mischief.

If so then i want a refund of the coins i spent for MY Winter's pressence. The skin is supposed to be hard to obtain. Nightfury can be equally expensive. THis is the cost of getting an aura item without spending gems on the store