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Give me my class back.

Ever since before PoF, and currently in PoF, Revenant has been getting hit left and right with nerfs. From the beginning of nerfing Shiro evade, heal, etc. to nerfing sword 2 and staff 5 in PvP. Then they completely remove a very valued trait that was well suited for Revenant. (RIP Equilibrium 2015-2017 you're still missed.). And now they removed even another trait, or "revamped" to something completely terrible. Mutilate Defenses is what kept rev even a little bit good, because it offered a lot of sustain and leech damage, but now we have Expose Defenses. Oh boy. So much vuln uptime. (not).
All I'm saying is that I want the class that I've loved since it was released back to its former glory, and not the piece of trash it is, and is being considered in this current meta of PvP.

But hey, let's keep buffing Mesmer as a whole. No biggie there. :')

Comments

  • It's because :
    1) They don't know how work our class.
    2) They uses dices do make changes.
    3) They want the class to died so they will be able to delete it.

    It's been 2 nerf to power revenant and one to condi rev (like others condi class) so I expect that the next patch will be a condi rev nerf....
    Let's say : Changing "Rampant Vex" (torment on crit)... the only way for kalla/sb to apply torment sustainably, because it's working like the regretted "Mutilate Defense".

  • I just don't think anyone on the balance team plays rev. Like look at the necro forums, scourge is stupid in PvP yet people there still cry for buffs. If they were in charge of the balance than scourge would be even further buffed and rev nerfed or just disregarded. If none of the people in charge of balance plays rev why would they care to buff it.

  • ArthurDent.9538ArthurDent.9538 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Flauvious.6195 said:
    I just don't think anyone on the balance team plays rev. Like look at the necro forums, scourge is stupid in PvP yet people there still cry for buffs. If they were in charge of the balance than scourge would be even further buffed and rev nerfed or just disregarded. If none of the people in charge of balance plays rev why would they care to buff it.

    I have an alternative theory: all of the balance devs only play in their own little private test server. The one that plays rev would be platinum rank if he played in regular ranked, while the rest would be in bronze. Because the rev dev is much more skilled then all the others, he kills them all so they nerf rev and achieve "balance".

  • witcher.3197witcher.3197 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Thief has many bad matchups as well and still manages to be meta, this game isn't about 1v1s. Rev has seen better days, it's true, but there's a kitten naked revenant in the top 30, it's not trash tier.

    Maybe you just need to improve or change your playstyle?

  • Coolguy.8702Coolguy.8702 Member ✭✭✭

    @witcher.3197 said:
    Thief has many bad matchups as well and still manages to be meta, this game isn't about 1v1s. Rev has seen better days, it's true, but there's a kitten naked revenant in the top 30, it's not trash tier.

    Maybe you just need to improve or change your playstyle?

    That naked rev is also a former esl player, and I guarantee you if he stuck with his main he would be top 5. Pretty bad to say just because 1 very good player managed to climb into the leaderboards means the class is not trash tier. Thief also has 2 builds that are both pretty good and offer much more than what any rev build could do.
    Maybe you should quit trolling and actually play revenant in its state before telling people to l2p

  • BeepBoopBop.5403BeepBoopBop.5403 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 16, 2017

    @witcher.3197 said:
    Thief has many bad matchups as well and still manages to be meta, this game isn't about 1v1s. Rev has seen better days, it's true, but there's a kitten naked revenant in the top 30, it's not trash tier.

    Maybe you just need to improve or change your playstyle?

    That naked rev was an ESL player lol, not to mention this season is absolutely dead as a lot of people have left. How many revenants have won a monthly AT?

    Can we see your pro revenant videos please? Guess I need to learn to play my class better :/

    BTW, that 1 naked revenant you mention is like the only revenant streamer left anymore, and he has been playing naked Mirage recently last times I've checked in.

  • Yannir.4132Yannir.4132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @BeepBoopBop.5403 said:

    @witcher.3197 said:
    Thief has many bad matchups as well and still manages to be meta, this game isn't about 1v1s. Rev has seen better days, it's true, but there's a kitten naked revenant in the top 30, it's not trash tier.

    Maybe you just need to improve or change your playstyle?

    That naked rev was an ESL player lol, not to mention this season is absolutely dead as a lot of people have left. How many revenants have won a monthly AT?

    Can we see your pro revenant videos please? Guess I need to learn to play my class better :/

    BTW, that 1 naked revenant you mention is like the only revenant streamer left anymore, and he has been playing naked Mirage recently last times I've checked in.

    Are we talking Frostball here?

  • Vena.4276Vena.4276 Member ✭✭
    edited December 17, 2017

    @witcher.3197 said:
    Thief has many bad matchups as well and still manages to be meta, this game isn't about 1v1s. Rev has seen better days, it's true, but there's a kitten naked revenant in the top 30, it's not trash tier.

    Maybe you just need to improve or change your playstyle?

    Tfw people actually think current leaderboards mean anything LUL, plus Frostball is an ESL player who can easily dominate the now meme-leaderboards as he wishes.
    Thief is only still meta because people haven’t caught on to mirage yet, who has better +1 and decap potential than thief.
    You tell me to improve, have you ever seen me play? If not stop making assumptions or go kitten yourself.

  • Meh.6419Meh.6419 Member ✭✭
    edited December 17, 2017

    @witcher.3197 said:
    Thief has many bad matchups as well and still manages to be meta, this game isn't about 1v1s. Rev has seen better days, it's true, but there's a kitten naked revenant in the top 30, it's not trash tier.

    Maybe you just need to improve or change your playstyle?

    Maybe you should actually play the class before judging it to any Rev's gameplay in PvP. PvE is a different story when it comes to the class itself. Learn how badly the trait change affects rev before assuming it's somoene's gameplay.

  • witcher.3197witcher.3197 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Ah so if someone's good at playing rev he doesn't count, got it lmao

  • witcher.3197witcher.3197 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Arkaile.5604 said:

    @witcher.3197 said:
    Ah so if someone's good at playing rev he doesn't count, got it lmao

    There's a difference between being "good at playing rev" and a former ESL player playing rev. You're bringing up someone who can easily be considered one of the best and telling everyone that because Frostball has had success as a rev, anyone can do it, and if someone can't that person is just bad. If you're going to argue a point, at least make a small effort to sound reasonable.

    Never said anyone could do it, but just because something is hard doesn't mean it's bad. Rev is obviously far from meta you are right about that, but there are several of them in the top 250 on EU.

  • Undo.5091Undo.5091 Member ✭✭✭

    @witcher.3197 No, something that is hard to play doesn’t make it bad... But revenant IS bad in the current state of the game. It’s food. The meta revolves around each team having a scourge, firebrand, and mirage while not picking up unnecessary liabilities like the entire revenant class.

  • Burtnik.5218Burtnik.5218 Member ✭✭✭

    I rather have them scrap revenant and come up with something else that actually wont have wep swap like it was supposed to be. This class was flawed back in the beta, just overtuned and thats the only thing that carried this garbage piece of s.. for so long.

  • @witcher.3197 said:

    @Arkaile.5604 said:

    @witcher.3197 said:
    Ah so if someone's good at playing rev he doesn't count, got it lmao

    There's a difference between being "good at playing rev" and a former ESL player playing rev. You're bringing up someone who can easily be considered one of the best and telling everyone that because Frostball has had success as a rev, anyone can do it, and if someone can't that person is just bad. If you're going to argue a point, at least make a small effort to sound reasonable.

    just because something is hard doesn't mean it's bad

    No it doesn't. They're two completely different things. However, revenant is both harder than scourge/sb/fb AND bad.

    good lord i am absolute trash at this video game

  • narcx.3570narcx.3570 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ArthurDent.9538 said:

    @Flauvious.6195 said:
    I just don't think anyone on the balance team plays rev. Like look at the necro forums, scourge is stupid in PvP yet people there still cry for buffs. If they were in charge of the balance than scourge would be even further buffed and rev nerfed or just disregarded. If none of the people in charge of balance plays rev why would they care to buff it.

    I have an alternative theory: all of the balance devs only play in their own little private test server. The one that plays rev would be platinum rank if he played in regular ranked, while the rest would be in bronze. Because the rev dev is much more skilled then all the others, he kills them all so they nerf rev and achieve "balance".

    This. I've been saying this since that patch a year ago that nerfed Enchanted Dagger/SotM(for the 3rd time)/and PS all in one fell swoop and said, "Nope, portals fine, lulzululz." That's when it became clear to me that the only person on the pvp team that's actually good played rev...

    But as for Mutilate Defenses, y'all are overreacting too much... They nerfed vuln stacking across the board (every class) and if you can't keep up Targeted Destruction and Focused Siphoning, you're clearly not using a sword. And if you're playing Dev in PvP w/o a sword, you have much bigger problems than the balance team can fix. Well, I guess you could be one of those hammer revs... This change was probably horrible for them, but like, nobody cares about hammer revs. :astonished:

  • BeepBoopBop.5403BeepBoopBop.5403 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @witcher.3197 said:

    @Arkaile.5604 said:

    @witcher.3197 said:
    Ah so if someone's good at playing rev he doesn't count, got it lmao

    There's a difference between being "good at playing rev" and a former ESL player playing rev. You're bringing up someone who can easily be considered one of the best and telling everyone that because Frostball has had success as a rev, anyone can do it, and if someone can't that person is just bad. If you're going to argue a point, at least make a small effort to sound reasonable.

    Never said anyone could do it, but just because something is hard doesn't mean it's bad. Rev is obviously far from meta you are right about that, but there are several of them in the top 250 on EU.

    Do you even play the class or are you talking out your kitten?

    Thief was in the same situation in early HoT days and Sindrener was the only high level player. People used the same kitten logic you're using, oh it's just high skill cap/floor! Thief doesn't need a buff!

    What happened next? Oh yeah thief auto got buffed 25%. Difference is, when revenant is underperforming we get more nerfs (2 patches in a row now).

  • Meh.6419Meh.6419 Member ✭✭

    Since I said it once, I'll say it again. Anet balances off of Metabattle.com, and yesterday Revenant had a "67%" rating overall, and was considered a good build. Mind you after several of us posted ratings in order to make it go to such a state, the Metabattle mods deleted all of them again. This isn't a coincidence. It's getting extrelemy kittening annoying the way they're forcing it to be in a meta state of the game, when it's clearly not. If people could post ratings there that are honest about the class, please do. This is just coming to the point of ridiculousness.

  • Buran.3796Buran.3796 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Well, related to Conquest mode currently only 6 classes could be called "meta".

  • @witcher.3197 said:

    @Arkaile.5604 said:

    @witcher.3197 said:
    Ah so if someone's good at playing rev he doesn't count, got it lmao

    There's a difference between being "good at playing rev" and a former ESL player playing rev. You're bringing up someone who can easily be considered one of the best and telling everyone that because Frostball has had success as a rev, anyone can do it, and if someone can't that person is just bad. If you're going to argue a point, at least make a small effort to sound reasonable.

    Never said anyone could do it, but just because something is hard doesn't mean it's bad. Rev is obviously far from meta you are right about that, but there are several of them in the top 250 on EU.

    xd me witcher xd me think rev is good xd me judge classes based on memeboards xd

  • XxsdgxX.8109XxsdgxX.8109 Member ✭✭✭

    @witcher.3197 said:

    @Arkaile.5604 said:

    @witcher.3197 said:
    Ah so if someone's good at playing rev he doesn't count, got it lmao

    There's a difference between being "good at playing rev" and a former ESL player playing rev. You're bringing up someone who can easily be considered one of the best and telling everyone that because Frostball has had success as a rev, anyone can do it, and if someone can't that person is just bad. If you're going to argue a point, at least make a small effort to sound reasonable.

    Never said anyone could do it, but just because something is hard doesn't mean it's bad. Rev is obviously far from meta you are right about that, but there are several of them in the top 250 on EU.

    I see what you mean by mentioning Frostball and some of us do like hard classes however... that was before PoF. Ive only seen him play DeadEye and Mirage for PoF.
    Revenant is just unforgiving as kitten right now, pretty much it became unplayable the moment Mirage and Scourge were introduced.
    Specially Mirage

  • Gandarel.5091Gandarel.5091 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 18, 2017

    @Meh.6419 said:
    It's getting extrelemy kittening annoying the way they're forcing it to be in a meta state of the game, when it's clearly not.

    Idk what you're looking at, it hasn't been tagged as meta in months afaik.

  • @Gandarel.5091 said:

    @Meh.6419 said:
    It's getting extrelemy kittening annoying the way they're forcing it to be in a meta state of the game, when it's clearly not.

    Idk what you're looking at, it hasn't been tagged as meta in months afaik.

    They’ve been deleting bad ratings so they could keep the build as part of the current metagame.

  • @Vena.4276 said:

    @Gandarel.5091 said:

    @Meh.6419 said:
    It's getting extrelemy kittening annoying the way they're forcing it to be in a meta state of the game, when it's clearly not.

    Idk what you're looking at, it hasn't been tagged as meta in months afaik.

    They’ve been deleting bad ratings so they could keep the build as part of the current metagame.

    How can a build be apart of the metagame when rev isn't even meta. #metaception

  • ArthurDent.9538ArthurDent.9538 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @thebatman.6250 said:

    @Vena.4276 said:

    @Gandarel.5091 said:

    @Meh.6419 said:
    It's getting extrelemy kittening annoying the way they're forcing it to be in a meta state of the game, when it's clearly not.

    Idk what you're looking at, it hasn't been tagged as meta in months afaik.

    They’ve been deleting bad ratings so they could keep the build as part of the current metagame.

    How can a build be apart of the metagame when rev isn't even meta. #metaception

    That is the point, they are trying to make it seem at least close to meta since it makes the balance look horrible when the whole class doesn't even have one "Great" tier build.

  • Actually this issue got resolved in the metabattle discord. The build is now labelled as Good tier.

  • Ertrak.9506Ertrak.9506 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 18, 2017

    @Kaizok.7839 said:
    It's because :
    1) They don't know how work our class.
    2) They uses dices do make changes.
    3) They want the class to died so they will be able to delete it.

    It's been 2 nerf to power revenant and one to condi rev (like others condi class) so I expect that the next patch will be a condi rev nerf....
    Let's say : Changing "Rampant Vex" (torment on crit)... the only way for kalla/sb to apply torment sustainably, because it's working like the regretted "Mutilate Defense".

    I. SWEAR. TO. GOD. DO NOT GIVE THEM THAT IDEA.

    Im not a pvper but i love my rev to death. If they did this id cry.

    Even with the recent SC benchmarks condi renagade is borderlining dropping from the meta. This would literally kill it.

  • @ArthurDent.9538 said:

    @thebatman.6250 said:

    @Vena.4276 said:

    @Gandarel.5091 said:

    @Meh.6419 said:
    It's getting extrelemy kittening annoying the way they're forcing it to be in a meta state of the game, when it's clearly not.

    Idk what you're looking at, it hasn't been tagged as meta in months afaik.

    They’ve been deleting bad ratings so they could keep the build as part of the current metagame.

    How can a build be apart of the metagame when rev isn't even meta. #metaception

    That is the point, they are trying to make it seem at least close to meta since it makes the balance look horrible when the whole class doesn't even have one "Great" tier build.

    I’ve talked to them about the issue, and we’ve come to a mutual agreement that they would lower the build’s tier as long as we don’t brigade post the page.

  • BeepBoopBop.5403BeepBoopBop.5403 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Vena.4276 said:

    @ArthurDent.9538 said:

    @thebatman.6250 said:

    @Vena.4276 said:

    @Gandarel.5091 said:

    @Meh.6419 said:
    It's getting extrelemy kittening annoying the way they're forcing it to be in a meta state of the game, when it's clearly not.

    Idk what you're looking at, it hasn't been tagged as meta in months afaik.

    They’ve been deleting bad ratings so they could keep the build as part of the current metagame.

    How can a build be apart of the metagame when rev isn't even meta. #metaception

    That is the point, they are trying to make it seem at least close to meta since it makes the balance look horrible when the whole class doesn't even have one "Great" tier build.

    I’ve talked to them about the issue, and we’ve come to a mutual agreement that they would lower the build’s tier as long as we don’t brigade post the page.

    "new posts on the revenant build? kitten this must be brigading!"

    Even in metabattle no break for rev Q_Q

  • @Ertrak.9506 said:

    @Kaizok.7839 said:
    It's because :
    1) They don't know how work our class.
    2) They uses dices do make changes.
    3) They want the class to died so they will be able to delete it.

    It's been 2 nerf to power revenant and one to condi rev (like others condi class) so I expect that the next patch will be a condi rev nerf....
    Let's say : Changing "Rampant Vex" (torment on crit)... the only way for kalla/sb to apply torment sustainably, because it's working like the regretted "Mutilate Defense".

    I. SWEAR. TO. GOD. DO NOT GIVE THEM THAT IDEA.

    Im not a pvper but i love my rev to death. If they did this id cry.

    Even with the recent SC benchmarks condi renagade is borderlining dropping from the meta. This would literally kill it.

    Explain to me precisely how it's dropping from the meta?! It's literally meta on most bosses that don't outright favor power builds. It's benchmarks are just fine as well, even when compared to other classes. Renegade in pve is in a really solid place as a whole.

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

    @Ertrak.9506 said:

    @Kaizok.7839 said:
    It's because :
    1) They don't know how work our class.
    2) They uses dices do make changes.
    3) They want the class to died so they will be able to delete it.

    It's been 2 nerf to power revenant and one to condi rev (like others condi class) so I expect that the next patch will be a condi rev nerf....
    Let's say : Changing "Rampant Vex" (torment on crit)... the only way for kalla/sb to apply torment sustainably, because it's working like the regretted "Mutilate Defense".

    I. SWEAR. TO. GOD. DO NOT GIVE THEM THAT IDEA.

    Im not a pvper but i love my rev to death. If they did this id cry.

    Even with the recent SC benchmarks condi renagade is borderlining dropping from the meta. This would literally kill it.

    Explain to me precisely how it's dropping from the meta?! It's literally meta on most bosses that don't outright favor power builds. It's benchmarks are just fine as well, even when compared to other classes. Renegade in pve is in a really solid place as a whole.

    Only raid bosses. Any scenario were you damage requires ramp up you at serious disadvantage. It was not like that at PoF release.

    SPvP, WvW, good chunk of fractals and even open world pve are all places were renegade (and Condi Rev in general) performs poorly.

  • @otto.5684 said:

    @LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

    @Ertrak.9506 said:

    @Kaizok.7839 said:
    It's because :
    1) They don't know how work our class.
    2) They uses dices do make changes.
    3) They want the class to died so they will be able to delete it.

    It's been 2 nerf to power revenant and one to condi rev (like others condi class) so I expect that the next patch will be a condi rev nerf....
    Let's say : Changing "Rampant Vex" (torment on crit)... the only way for kalla/sb to apply torment sustainably, because it's working like the regretted "Mutilate Defense".

    I. SWEAR. TO. GOD. DO NOT GIVE THEM THAT IDEA.

    Im not a pvper but i love my rev to death. If they did this id cry.

    Even with the recent SC benchmarks condi renagade is borderlining dropping from the meta. This would literally kill it.

    Explain to me precisely how it's dropping from the meta?! It's literally meta on most bosses that don't outright favor power builds. It's benchmarks are just fine as well, even when compared to other classes. Renegade in pve is in a really solid place as a whole.

    Only raid bosses. Any scenario were you damage requires ramp up you at serious disadvantage. It was not like that at PoF release.

    SPvP, WvW, good chunk of fractals and even open world pve are all places were renegade (and Condi Rev in general) performs poorly.

    I wasn't talking about the other game modes, as it was a direct response to the comment "even with recent SC benchmarks it's borderline dropping from the meta." Class is still good in open world, it literally takes 2 seconds longer to kill things after condi changes, which is barely anything at all.

  • Ertrak.9506Ertrak.9506 Member ✭✭✭

    @LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

    @Ertrak.9506 said:

    @Kaizok.7839 said:
    It's because :
    1) They don't know how work our class.
    2) They uses dices do make changes.
    3) They want the class to died so they will be able to delete it.

    It's been 2 nerf to power revenant and one to condi rev (like others condi class) so I expect that the next patch will be a condi rev nerf....
    Let's say : Changing "Rampant Vex" (torment on crit)... the only way for kalla/sb to apply torment sustainably, because it's working like the regretted "Mutilate Defense".

    I. SWEAR. TO. GOD. DO NOT GIVE THEM THAT IDEA.

    Im not a pvper but i love my rev to death. If they did this id cry.

    Even with the recent SC benchmarks condi renagade is borderlining dropping from the meta. This would literally kill it.

    Explain to me precisely how it's dropping from the meta?! It's literally meta on most bosses that don't outright favor power builds. It's benchmarks are just fine as well, even when compared to other classes. Renegade in pve is in a really solid place as a whole.

    Its one of the lowest, if not thee lowest Condi DPS build for raiding. Soulbeast mirage condi weaver Condi DD (uncertain on Condi engi) even Condi dps warrior out dps Condi rev in the benchmarks. Innovation builds are also not practical as AP is more useful to the group.

    You're right that's its still plenty ok to use (and i do all the time) but like i said, its on the low end of that dps builds now and really any kind of nerf could easily kick it out of meta.

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

    @otto.5684 said:

    @LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

    @Ertrak.9506 said:

    @Kaizok.7839 said:
    It's because :
    1) They don't know how work our class.
    2) They uses dices do make changes.
    3) They want the class to died so they will be able to delete it.

    It's been 2 nerf to power revenant and one to condi rev (like others condi class) so I expect that the next patch will be a condi rev nerf....
    Let's say : Changing "Rampant Vex" (torment on crit)... the only way for kalla/sb to apply torment sustainably, because it's working like the regretted "Mutilate Defense".

    I. SWEAR. TO. GOD. DO NOT GIVE THEM THAT IDEA.

    Im not a pvper but i love my rev to death. If they did this id cry.

    Even with the recent SC benchmarks condi renagade is borderlining dropping from the meta. This would literally kill it.

    Explain to me precisely how it's dropping from the meta?! It's literally meta on most bosses that don't outright favor power builds. It's benchmarks are just fine as well, even when compared to other classes. Renegade in pve is in a really solid place as a whole.

    Only raid bosses. Any scenario were you damage requires ramp up you at serious disadvantage. It was not like that at PoF release.

    SPvP, WvW, good chunk of fractals and even open world pve are all places were renegade (and Condi Rev in general) performs poorly.

    I wasn't talking about the other game modes, as it was a direct response to the comment "even with recent SC benchmarks it's borderline dropping from the meta." Class is still good in open world, it literally takes 2 seconds longer to kill things after condi changes, which is barely anything at all.

    I know you were responding primarily regarding raids. The issue is Condi Rev was designed around dishing a large amount of condi damage over a short period of time. Their effectiveness depends on that. Over the last two patches that was stripped away, even though Condi Rev was not meta in anything beside raids. Right now it is getting close to obsolete outside raid environment.

    This is a serious issue. It is a major design shift for the class, that was done without any thought of how it will impact the overall class performance. The devs kitten up big time.

    I know you did not mean it literally, but 2 more seconds to kill mobs in PvE is way to long considering that most power builds can kill mobs in 2-3 secs. Not that balance is based on open world PvE, but the ramp up for Condi Rev to deal damage is unreasonably too long.

  • Vulf.3098Vulf.3098 Member ✭✭✭

    Compared to other specs like Warrior and Firebrand, Condi Renegades burst was pathetic even before the nerfs.

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 20, 2017

    @Vulf.3098 Indeed. At least at the beginning of PoF Renegade could ramp up high amount of torment stacks pretty quickly, which has been nerfed twice since.

    And, ya I play FB. 20 stacks of burns in under 3 secs is achievable. That is over 10K burns/sec BTW.

  • Vasdamas Anklast.1607Vasdamas Anklast.1607 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 22, 2017

    I wish I honestly never invested so much time into this class when all ranged classes are allowed to kill you with bunch of passive procs or one ability within 1 second. Or just keep on evading kitten while casting 10-20 stacks of confusion at you every 10 seconds.
    But then again I remember revenant is the only reason I play this game. Too bad refund is already overdue.

  • @Ertrak.9506 said:

    @LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

    @Ertrak.9506 said:

    @Kaizok.7839 said:
    It's because :
    1) They don't know how work our class.
    2) They uses dices do make changes.
    3) They want the class to died so they will be able to delete it.

    It's been 2 nerf to power revenant and one to condi rev (like others condi class) so I expect that the next patch will be a condi rev nerf....
    Let's say : Changing "Rampant Vex" (torment on crit)... the only way for kalla/sb to apply torment sustainably, because it's working like the regretted "Mutilate Defense".

    I. SWEAR. TO. GOD. DO NOT GIVE THEM THAT IDEA.

    Im not a pvper but i love my rev to death. If they did this id cry.

    Even with the recent SC benchmarks condi renagade is borderlining dropping from the meta. This would literally kill it.

    Explain to me precisely how it's dropping from the meta?! It's literally meta on most bosses that don't outright favor power builds. It's benchmarks are just fine as well, even when compared to other classes. Renegade in pve is in a really solid place as a whole.

    Its one of the lowest, if not thee lowest Condi DPS build for raiding. Soulbeast mirage condi weaver Condi DD (uncertain on Condi engi) even Condi dps warrior out dps Condi rev in the benchmarks. Innovation builds are also not practical as AP is more useful to the group.

    You're right that's its still plenty ok to use (and i do all the time) but like i said, its on the low end of that dps builds now and really any kind of nerf could easily kick it out of meta.

    It's absolutely worth noting that "it might be on the low end of other condi dps builds" BUT it brings ASSASSIN'S PRESENCE, which is bare minimum an extra 1-5k dps for your party, depending on party composition. The fact it brings that isn't factored into the benchmark, but actually puts it higher than most once factored in.

  • @otto.5684 said:

    @LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

    @otto.5684 said:

    @LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

    @Ertrak.9506 said:

    @Kaizok.7839 said:
    It's because :
    1) They don't know how work our class.
    2) They uses dices do make changes.
    3) They want the class to died so they will be able to delete it.

    It's been 2 nerf to power revenant and one to condi rev (like others condi class) so I expect that the next patch will be a condi rev nerf....
    Let's say : Changing "Rampant Vex" (torment on crit)... the only way for kalla/sb to apply torment sustainably, because it's working like the regretted "Mutilate Defense".

    I. SWEAR. TO. GOD. DO NOT GIVE THEM THAT IDEA.

    Im not a pvper but i love my rev to death. If they did this id cry.

    Even with the recent SC benchmarks condi renagade is borderlining dropping from the meta. This would literally kill it.

    Explain to me precisely how it's dropping from the meta?! It's literally meta on most bosses that don't outright favor power builds. It's benchmarks are just fine as well, even when compared to other classes. Renegade in pve is in a really solid place as a whole.

    Only raid bosses. Any scenario were you damage requires ramp up you at serious disadvantage. It was not like that at PoF release.

    SPvP, WvW, good chunk of fractals and even open world pve are all places were renegade (and Condi Rev in general) performs poorly.

    I wasn't talking about the other game modes, as it was a direct response to the comment "even with recent SC benchmarks it's borderline dropping from the meta." Class is still good in open world, it literally takes 2 seconds longer to kill things after condi changes, which is barely anything at all.

    I know you were responding primarily regarding raids. The issue is Condi Rev was designed around dishing a large amount of condi damage over a short period of time. Their effectiveness depends on that. Over the last two patches that was stripped away, even though Condi Rev was not meta in anything beside raids. Right now it is getting close to obsolete outside raid environment.

    This is a serious issue. It is a major design shift for the class, that was done without any thought of how it will impact the overall class performance. The devs kitten up big time.

    I know you did not mean it literally, but 2 more seconds to kill mobs in PvE is way to long considering that most power builds can kill mobs in 2-3 secs. Not that balance is based on open world PvE, but the ramp up for Condi Rev to deal damage is unreasonably too long.

    Yes I 100% agree with you that the previous condi related patch was bad for condi rev in most content, especially wvw and pvp. The abyssal chill change was largely unnecessary.

  • This thread is still going?
    People the new Equilibrium is inside the Renegade trait lists and it's called Sudden Reversal.
    Renegade traits are the new thing for PvP, while the Legendary Stance and Weapon are a PvE thing only.
    Thread closed,wait for next elite spec to change Rev's pvp builds from X/Invo or Deva/Renegade to X/Deva or Invo/.

  • Buran.3796Buran.3796 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 24, 2017

    @Jack Skywalker.5674 said:

    People the new Equilibrium is inside the Renegade trait lists and it's called Sudden Reversal.
    Renegade traits are the new thing for PvP, while the Legendary Stance and Weapon are a PvE thing only.

    You need to replace Herald by Renegade to use that kitten. That means no Glint stance, which instantly kills any chance of succes in PvP. Renegade isn't only the weakest spec for PvP in the game, is also weaker than core Rev (or any other core class) in that game mode. You're also proposing to replace the least demanding legend in terms of energy consumption for the most expensive one, going from one which is excellent for AoE cleaving and ccing other players to one designed to stack effects in numb A.I. bosses. What a deal.

  • narcx.3570narcx.3570 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Buran.3796 said:

    @Jack Skywalker.5674 said:

    People the new Equilibrium is inside the Renegade trait lists and it's called Sudden Reversal.
    Renegade traits are the new thing for PvP, while the Legendary Stance and Weapon are a PvE thing only.

    You need to replace Herald by Renegade to use that kitten. That means no Glint stance, which instantly kills any chance of succes in PvP. Renegade isn't only the weakest spec for PvP in the game, is also weaker than core Rev (or any other core class) in that game mode. You're also proposing to replace the least demanding legend in terms of energy consumption for the most expensive one, going from one which is excellent for AoE cleaving and ccing other players to one designed to stack effects in numb A.I. bosses. What a deal.

    Kalla's certainly useless, but no way is core revenant better than taking the Renegade trait line. I mean, taking either is suicidal since you pretty much need Facet of Light to stand a chance in 90% of the matchups, but still... By saying Core Rev is better than Renegade, you're essentially saying that you'd rather have Retribution than Renegade, which is just ew...

    I mean, you still have to take Herald, like HAVE to, but let's not get ridiculous with the renegade shaming.

  • BeepBoopBop.5403BeepBoopBop.5403 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @narcx.3570 said:

    @Buran.3796 said:

    @Jack Skywalker.5674 said:

    People the new Equilibrium is inside the Renegade trait lists and it's called Sudden Reversal.
    Renegade traits are the new thing for PvP, while the Legendary Stance and Weapon are a PvE thing only.

    You need to replace Herald by Renegade to use that kitten. That means no Glint stance, which instantly kills any chance of succes in PvP. Renegade isn't only the weakest spec for PvP in the game, is also weaker than core Rev (or any other core class) in that game mode. You're also proposing to replace the least demanding legend in terms of energy consumption for the most expensive one, going from one which is excellent for AoE cleaving and ccing other players to one designed to stack effects in numb A.I. bosses. What a deal.

    Kalla's certainly useless, but no way is core revenant better than taking the Renegade trait line. I mean, taking either is suicidal since you pretty much need Facet of Light to stand a chance in 90% of the matchups, but still... By saying Core Rev is better than Renegade, you're essentially saying that you'd rather have Retribution than Renegade, which is just ew...

    I mean, you still have to take Herald, like HAVE to, but let's not get ridiculous with the renegade shaming.

    I would take retribution over renegade. Hell sometimes I take retribution over devastation when solo roaming (invo ret herald)

  • Buran.3796Buran.3796 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @narcx.3570 said:

    Kalla's certainly useless, but no way is core revenant better than taking the Renegade trait line. I mean, taking either is suicidal since you pretty much need Facet of Light to stand a chance in 90% of the matchups, but still... By saying Core Rev is better than Renegade, you're essentially saying that you'd rather have Retribution than Renegade, which is just ew...

    I mean, you still have to take Herald, like HAVE to, but let's not get ridiculous with the renegade shaming.

    Forced to play a non-Herald build I would go Devastation/Invocation/Corruption with Shiro + Mallyx with full power stats. Invocation already provides easy access to 100% crit chance so no need to waste space with the Renegade traitline. But I don't known what we are talking about here: Herald just outperforms core Rev/Renegade so hard that those just don't have a chance. Even going condi, condi Herald is still better for PvP.

  • JVJD.4912JVJD.4912 Member ✭✭✭

    This is what happens when you have a "Play what is needed" instead 'Play what you want" game-mode
    You are eventually going to come to a point of not liking it.
    Your favorite class maybe top pick one day and zero the next day.
    Can't blame the players when efficiency is priority now can you??

  • @BeepBoopBop.5403 said:

    @Jack Skywalker.5674 said:
    This thread is still going?
    People the new Equilibrium is inside the Renegade trait lists and it's called Sudden Reversal.
    Renegade traits are the new thing for PvP, while the Legendary Stance and Weapon are a PvE thing only.
    Thread closed,wait for next elite spec to change Rev's pvp builds from X/Invo or Deva/Renegade to X/Deva or Invo/.

    Uh no.

    20s CD and break stun required and no damage inflicted (read trait on wiki, don't know if that's accurate) and you think this is a viable alternative to Equilibrium? And don't even get me started that you have to use Renegade at all to use this trash trait.

    Do you work for Anet and are trying to sell us the kitten pile that is Renegade lol

    No....it's just the truth, in the 1 year I have played GW2 I have never seen a dev more obvious about it's lack of intent to listen to it's community in regard to how to manage class balance.

    Also according to http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/ Sudden Reversal has a damage component....I never cared to look up the wiki to check for discrepancies....well that still won't change the fact that Anet will never listen to anyone here, ever, or that I trolled poorly today.