Updated: Why the new 'redoable' Hearts icon is very vague — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Updated: Why the new 'redoable' Hearts icon is very vague

Eidolonemesis.5640Eidolonemesis.5640 Member ✭✭✭
edited December 16, 2017 in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Throughout my gameplay in the Crystal Desert, I could not figure out why my Hearts, after completed, were resetting (until I took a closer look at the new Hearts icon after I brought it up in conversation in my Guild) .

Unbeknownst to me, the 'Infinity Symbol' indicates Hearts you can redo over and over, after a certain 'reset time' goes by. I then thought to myself, "This is a very vague indicator, because players can be mislead to believe the symbol is just part of the art at the bottom of the Heart." (like I did)

EDIT (The link has been updated): Therefore, I came up with a concept design https://imgur.com/a/4dIjp (to better indicate 'completion' and 'repeatability') that will fix the issue, just an idea to play around with, because the current design does not show up on the Map very well, especially if you are zoomed out when viewing it.

However, incomplete Hearts will look like they usually do, that way, when an incomplete Heart does change to a 'completed'/'redoable' Heart, players will either 1. better understand its purpose OR 2. Question the meaning to the visual art sooner (during gameplay) to a friend or fellow Guild Members.

It took me a week (yes, a week) to finally catch on to the redoable Hearts system (only after asking my Guild why my Hearts kept resetting). I thought it was a bug, yet knowing the maps were new, I gave Anet the benefit of the doubt to fix the bug before filing a report, only to find it is not a bug at all!

You see? Misinterpretation is the problem here, whether some of you in the comments caught on early or not during your gameplay on the new maps. Unlike some of you, I am a returning player after being gone for months and months, so how was I supposed to know the new redoable Hearts system was intended?

Furthermore, I believe the new Heart icon size should be scaled a little bigger, so the Infinity Symbol shows up better. Not only that, I believe (in time) the new 'redoable' Hearts system should be implemented throughout Tyria, not just in the Crystal Desert Map, because it makes no sense to revamp the Hearts system in one part of the game and not the other parts. That way, players are given a reason to revisit a lot of maps that are deserted.

One can make the argument, "Well, if we did that, then it would draw players' attention away from the new maps we just implemented." yet why play such a game of favoritism with you guys' own maps, each one your team has spent hours upon hours designing? Don't you want players to enjoy ALL the game, not just a part of it with this new 'redoable' Hearts system?

EDIT: > @Witch of Doom.5739 said:

I don't care what it looks like (although I agree a different color would be good), but PLEASE stop making the repeatable heart necessary for accessing the vendor. BORING and GRINDY.

Agreed. If we completed any Heart once, we should have access to any Heart vendor we want. Players who want to repeat Hearts WILL do so for the Karma if/when they need more of it. Accessing vendors after Heart completion is not a problem throughout the rest of the game, and neither should it be the case for the Crystal Desert.

Thank you for looking into this.

Comments

  • Taygus.4571Taygus.4571 Member ✭✭✭

    It's the inifity for the hero points too.

  • Great efford. I doubt however if this design will solve it. The icons can be fairly small on the map when zoomed out. I think the only real solution would be a different colour. So if not finished or finished the first time it will be the well known golden colour. After the daily reset it will then turn to the expansion colour (so purple for PoF and green for HoT. This can also be done for heropoints. It would also help players to quickly see to what expansion a map belongs

  • insanelyapple.2870insanelyapple.2870 Member ✭✭
    edited December 16, 2017

    I would just draw infinity symbol bigger instead of totally redesign of the whole icon; also, hearts could use vanilla icon till they're filled finally and ready for daily resets.

    Color variant could be also helping here - make repeatable hearts orange or red or in any other enough distinguishable from map texture color.

    And by the way, I would point out that out of all map icons, there are still vanilla karma vendors with barely visible, small yellow-magenta diamonds

    Edit: as for Hero Points - that_shaman dug in files blue icon variants, around PoF betas time. So we can say guys there are considering such stuff.

  • Zaklex.6308Zaklex.6308 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Cronos.6532 said:
    non-issue imo

    I agree this is a non-issue, for the following reasons...repeatable Hearts have been in for a while now and it should be a given that all new Hearts are repeatable, same goes for the Hero Points. Secondly, they already stated that it would take a rework of Core Tyria Hearts to make them repeatable, just because new ones are doesn't mean the old ones can be made to act the same way retroactively.

    Yes...no...maybe...what do you want, can't you see I'm busy saving the world...AGAIN!

  • I would like a change the color of the icon.

    • Gold: First time/One time completion.
    • Azure/Sapphire/Bluish/Silver: Repeatable.
  • @MithranArkanere.8957 said:
    I would like a change the color of the icon.

    • Gold: First time/One time completion.
    • Azure/Sapphire/Bluish/Silver: Repeatable.

    I would love this as well, colour is far easier to tell then mini infinity symbol that blend onto the map.

    Also can we have the navigation not point us towards already completed haerts when done the first time.

  • Fluffball.8307Fluffball.8307 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Looks like that sad frog meme.

  • I don't care what it looks like (although I agree a different color would be good), but PLEASE stop making the repeatable heart necessary for accessing the vendor. BORING and GRINDY.

  • Eidolonemesis.5640Eidolonemesis.5640 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 16, 2017

    @Zaklex.6308 said:

    @Cronos.6532 said:
    non-issue imo

    I agree this is a non-issue, for the following reasons...repeatable Hearts have been in for a while now and it should be a given that all new Hearts are repeatable, same goes for the Hero Points. Secondly, they already stated that it would take a rework of Core Tyria Hearts to make them repeatable, just because new ones are doesn't mean the old ones can be made to act the same way retroactively.

    Just because the Infinity Symbol's meaning is known by some does not mean it is known by all. While the design I came up with may not fix the issue 100%, the point is my concept design for redoable Hearts is a lot more distinguishable than the redoable Hearts icon we have now with a rinky dink Infinity Symbol we can hardly see.

    Furthermore, yes, it does make sense to implement the redoable Hearts system throughout the rest of game, because if we had such a system in the first place, it would not distract players' attention from newly released Maps like we have right now. Players will still play the new Maps. However, what happens after players get bored of any of the newly-released Maps with the new redoable Hearts system? They are going to want to play another Map, right?

    The proposed idea here is to not only revamp the redoable Hearts system to be more 'visually' distinguishable on our Map, but to implement the redoable Hearts system throughout the entire game, so if players get bored of redoing Hearts in one map, they can go to any other map and redo those Hearts, too, all while not distracting players from any of the new Maps. Why? Because players are going to finish any new content first, so that when they get bored of that eventually, they can redo Hearts for Karma in other areas.

  • Eidolonemesis.5640Eidolonemesis.5640 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 16, 2017

    @Witch of Doom.5739 said:
    I don't care what it looks like (although I agree a different color would be good), but PLEASE stop making the repeatable heart necessary for accessing the vendor. BORING and GRINDY.

    Agreed. If we completed any Heart once, we should have access to any Heart vendor we want. Players who want to repeat Hearts WILL do so for the Karma if/when they need more of it. Accessing vendors after Heart completion is not a problem throughout the rest of the game, and neither should it be the case for the Crystal Desert.

  • Ashen.2907Ashen.2907 Member ✭✭✭✭

    The design you created, while nicely done, does nothing to address the, "problem," you describe as players not understanding the symbol. Personally, as much as think it is well done, I think your design is less clear, more resembling artistic license in representing a heart than conveying the repeatable nature of the heart.

  • Khisanth.2948Khisanth.2948 Member ✭✭✭✭

    The suggestion looks even more obscure than the existing art. Are you trying to solve the problem or make it worse?

  • Eidolonemesis.5640Eidolonemesis.5640 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 16, 2017

    @Ashen.2907 said:
    The design you created, while nicely done, does nothing to address the, "problem," you describe as players not understanding the symbol. Personally, as much as think it is well done, I think your design is less clear, more resembling artistic license in representing a heart than conveying the repeatable nature of the heart.

    The link has been updated with a new link to a color-coded concept that shows 'completion' and 'repeatability' all in one, mind you, unlike we have now. Incomplete Hearts will display as they do by default.

    Furthermore, even if the concept I came up with is not a 100% fix, it is, I argue, more distinguishable. And if the new design is not good enough? Anet can implement green-colored text that briefly explains, "Heart completed yet repeatable for rewards upon daily reset." when players hover their cursor over the icons of redoable Hearts. Green tooltip text, in conjunction with a better redoable Heart design, will help.

  • Eidolonemesis.5640Eidolonemesis.5640 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 16, 2017

    @Khisanth.2948 said:
    The suggestion looks even more obscure than the existing art. Are you trying to solve the problem or make it worse?

    That is why this is called the discussion area, that way, I can improve upon the idea, because yes, I am trying to deliver a better, more distinguishable redoable Hearts system that hopefully gets to one of the developers. I do not see anybody else coming up with a better idea (except Gilgamesh VII.8690 who proposed color coding, which I did incorporate in my new concept).

    That rinky dink Infinity Symbol clearly fails to explain itself even more so than what I propose. Whatever Anet chooses to do --- be it to scale the size of 'incomplete' and 'redoable Hearts' bigger (to be better seen), or to redesign redoable Hearts entirely (as proposed) --- is their business.

    That being said, absolutely nothing will get done unless somebody in the community points it out so they can make a better redoable Hearts system. The one we have now is too vague. The purpose of this thread is to get the developers thinking, to get something going on the drawing board.

  • I don't think the particular symbol matters. There are people who know the infinity symbol who didn't notice it on repeatable hearts after it was added, those who did notice (but didn't know it meant anything), and those who noticed it and misunderstood what it meant. Each of those issues are one-time problems, i.e. once someone explains it to you, you'll never have trouble with it again.

    Accordingly, I don't think it's worth changing the symbol because it's "vague" and personally I don't think the updated symbol is any less vague; it's just differently vague (for me).

    If the icons are changed, I'd rather see that

    • Uncompleted objectives are easier to notice than completed ones. This is especially awkward with mastery point unlocks and hero challenges.
    • Repeatable objectives should also stand out more than completed-one-time equivalents, but less than incomplete ones.
    • And yeah, PS, don't make me redo hearts just to access a vendor two days in a row.

    To me, it's nice when the icons are also intuitive. But that's just icing on the cake (and icing by itself is unfulfilling as a dessert).

    "Face the facts. Then act on them. It's ...the only doctrine I have to offer you, & it's harder than you'd think, because I swear humans seem hardwired to do anything but. Face the facts. Don't pray, don't wish, ...FACE THE FACTS. THEN act." — Quellcrist Falconer

  • Eidolonemesis.5640Eidolonemesis.5640 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 16, 2017

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:
    I don't think the particular symbol matters. There are people who know the infinity symbol who didn't notice it on repeatable hearts after it was added, those who did notice (but didn't know it meant anything), and those who noticed it and misunderstood what it meant. Each of those issues are one-time problems, i.e. once someone explains it to you, you'll never have trouble with it again.

    Accordingly, I don't think it's worth changing the symbol because it's "vague" and personally I don't think the updated symbol is any less vague; it's just differently vague (for me).

    If the icons are changed, I'd rather see that

    • Uncompleted objectives are easier to notice than completed ones. This is especially awkward with mastery point unlocks and hero challenges.
    • Repeatable objectives should also stand out more than completed-one-time equivalents, but less than incomplete ones.
    • And yeah, PS, don't make me redo hearts just to access a vendor two days in a row.

    To me, it's nice when the icons are also intuitive. But that's just icing on the cake (and icing by itself is unfulfilling as a dessert).

    And that is your opinion, yet I will argue until blue in the face Anet should do something so there is not even so much that 'first time' having trouble understanding the new redoable Hearts system (or any new system, for that matter).The least Anet can do is color code the Hearts to indicate completion and redoability.

    Sometimes those 'first times' can turn into really long times. That is what is not being understood by anyone here. I have seen veteran players learn of new mechanics and things they either 1. did not know existed OR 2. they did not understand, therefore, never knew of their usage, all because certain things in the game are 'vague' when they should be clear in the first place.

    You call what I propose icing on the cake that does not make for a fulfilling desert, yet I call it the whole cake, because poorly explained systems are not, and who wants to eat a half-made cake? (to put it nicely). Not me.

  • Khisanth.2948Khisanth.2948 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Eidolonemesis.5640 said:

    @Khisanth.2948 said:
    The suggestion looks even more obscure than the existing art. Are you trying to solve the problem or make it worse?

    That is why this is called the discussion area, that way, I can improve upon the idea, because yes, I am trying to deliver a better, more distinguishable redoable Hearts system that hopefully gets to one of the developers. I do not see anybody else coming up with a better idea (except Gilgamesh VII.8690 who proposed color coding, which I did incorporate in my new concept).

    That rinky dink Infinity Symbol clearly fails to explain itself even more so than what I propose. Whatever Anet chooses to do --- be it to scale the size of 'incomplete' and 'redoable Hearts' bigger (to be better seen), or to redesign redoable Hearts entirely (as proposed) --- is their business.

    That being said, absolutely nothing will get done unless somebody in the community points it out so they can make a better redoable Hearts system. The one we have now is too vague. The purpose of this thread is to get the developers thinking, to get something going on the drawing board.

    You know what is great for explaining things? Words! However you will have to figure out how to get people to actually read or listen.

    You assert it is a problem. I don't think it is. A completed heart becomes incomplete. When completed again the award is given again. Then it happens again the next day! It doesn't take much deductive power to figure out that it means the activity is repeatable.

  • Nick Lentz.6982Nick Lentz.6982 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 16, 2017

    I'll give you one guess at what the majority of players want, but Anet refuses to do.

    Stop with the kitten repeatable heart

    Vinnorin Almar, Firebrand of Maguuma.
    I Crit Under Pressure is recruiting, message me for an invite ^_^

  • RoseofGilead.8907RoseofGilead.8907 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Nick Lentz.6982 said:
    I'll give you one guess at what the majority of players want, but Anet refuses to do.

    Stop with the kitten repeatable heart

    Except Anet seemingly added them due to how many requests were made for hearts to become repeatable.

    Oh look. I have a signature now.

  • Drecien.4508Drecien.4508 Member ✭✭✭

    This was implemented and listed in the patch notes. Central tyria shouldnt convert because the map is easy enough solo. The HOT/POF maps sometimes need several people to help with, so they gave people incentive to help others in more difficult situations.

    30 Beautiful new mount skins?! Anet take my money!

  • Eidolonemesis.5640Eidolonemesis.5640 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 17, 2017

    @Khisanth.2948 said:
    You know what is great for explaining things? Words! However you will have to figure out how to get people to actually read or listen.
    You assert it is a problem. I don't think it is. A completed heart becomes incomplete. When completed again the award is given again. Then it happens again the next day! It doesn't take much deductive power to figure out that it means the activity is repeatable.

    Well that is you, and this is me, and as far the two of us go, we do not speak for everybody in our own opinions. Everyone is different. That is why I did mention the idea of TEXT in the tooltips of Hearts as a way to fix the issue, along with several other ideas that can work along with the idea I proposed. Why? So there is more of a universal fix that suits everyone, for those who are visual (like me), and for those who do not mind reading.

    Therefore, if text were to be added to the tooltips of redoable Hearts after the first completion, the text should read, "Heart completed yet repeatable for rewards upon daily reset."

    And no, you have that backwards regarding completed Hearts. A completed Heart remains completed (filled in yellow, or as my idea proposes, filled in green) until the next day when it is reset, whereupon the teeny tiny 'Infinity Symbol' shows up at the very bottom of Hearts after the first completion. However, again, I did not know of that mechanic until I asked my Guild why Hearts reset.

  • @RoseofGilead.8907 said:

    @Nick Lentz.6982 said:
    I'll give you one guess at what the majority of players want, but Anet refuses to do.

    Stop with the kitten repeatable heart

    Except Anet seemingly added them due to how many requests were made for hearts to become repeatable.

    A minority of forum wanderers.

    Vinnorin Almar, Firebrand of Maguuma.
    I Crit Under Pressure is recruiting, message me for an invite ^_^

  • Khisanth.2948Khisanth.2948 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 17, 2017

    @Eidolonemesis.5640 said:

    @Khisanth.2948 said:
    You know what is great for explaining things? Words! However you will have to figure out how to get people to actually read or listen.
    You assert it is a problem. I don't think it is. A completed heart becomes incomplete. When completed again the award is given again. Then it happens again the next day! It doesn't take much deductive power to figure out that it means the activity is repeatable.

    Well that is you, and this is me, and as far the two of us go, we do not speak for everybody in our own opinions. Everyone is different. That is why I did mention the idea of TEXT in the tooltips of Hearts as a way to fix the issue, along with several other ideas that can work along with the idea I proposed. Why? So there is more of a universal fix that suits everyone, for those who are visual (like me), and for those who do not mind reading.

    Therefore, if text were to be added to the tooltips of redoable Hearts after the first completion, the text should read, "Heart completed yet repeatable for rewards upon daily reset."

    And no, you have that backwards regarding completed Hearts. A completed Heart remains completed (filled in yellow, or as my idea proposes, filled in green) until the next day when it is reset, whereupon the teeny tiny 'Infinity Symbol' shows up at the very bottom of Hearts after the first completion. However, again, I did not know of that mechanic until I asked my Guild why Hearts reset.

    They've been around since Ember Bay so there are a couple of options 1) you are new 2) you never revisit any map with the same character as well as always finishing a map within a single day 3) you are simply not paying attention

    The infinity symbol is also less of an indicator that it can be repeated and more of an indicator that the heart has already been completed once for the purpose of map completion.

  • Eidolonemesis.5640Eidolonemesis.5640 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 17, 2017

    @Khisanth.2948 said:

    @Eidolonemesis.5640 said:

    @Khisanth.2948 said:
    You know what is great for explaining things? Words! However you will have to figure out how to get people to actually read or listen.
    You assert it is a problem. I don't think it is. A completed heart becomes incomplete. When completed again the award is given again. Then it happens again the next day! It doesn't take much deductive power to figure out that it means the activity is repeatable.

    Well that is you, and this is me, and as far the two of us go, we do not speak for everybody in our own opinions. Everyone is different. That is why I did mention the idea of TEXT in the tooltips of Hearts as a way to fix the issue, along with several other ideas that can work along with the idea I proposed. Why? So there is more of a universal fix that suits everyone, for those who are visual (like me), and for those who do not mind reading.

    Therefore, if text were to be added to the tooltips of redoable Hearts after the first completion, the text should read, "Heart completed yet repeatable for rewards upon daily reset."

    And no, you have that backwards regarding completed Hearts. A completed Heart remains completed (filled in yellow, or as my idea proposes, filled in green) until the next day when it is reset, whereupon the teeny tiny 'Infinity Symbol' shows up at the very bottom of Hearts after the first completion. However, again, I did not know of that mechanic until I asked my Guild why Hearts reset.

    They've been around since Ember Bay so there are a couple of options 1) you are new 2) you never revisit any map with the same character as well as always finishing a map within a single day 3) you are simply not paying attention

    The infinity symbol is also less of an indicator that it can be repeated and more of an indicator that the heart has already been completed once for the purpose of map completion.

    You're right. I did go through most of Ember Bay in a day, thank you very much, and yes, I did not care so much for the Ember Bay area so as to never return after my first go-around. That being said, my point still stands that it still took me a week within the Crystal Desert to understand that what was happening with the Hearts was not a bug, but an intended new Hearts system.

    Furthermore, since something like the Heart icon is something I have seen over and over as they always were for years BEFORE the redoable Hearts system was implemented, I do not see that as 'not paying attention' (as you put it). I see it as not caring to pay much attention after a certain point. HOWEVER, since I have been playing the Crystal Desert maps for far longer than I did in Ember Bay, and I see that my Hearts are being reset? Yes, I paid enough attention so as to realize something was not the same with the Hearts, then I brought it up in a Guild conversation, and then I composed this thread about the new Hearts system.

    Whether or not I should have realized the new redoable Hearts system sooner is beside the point. The new Hearts system FAILS to stick out to an obvious degree. It does not at all stick out like when a Heart is filled in the original system, screaming, "Hey, look at me! I'm complete, everybody!"

    Instead, the new Hearts system screams, "Hey, look look at me! I'm complete, everybody! And guess what?! (snickering like the Joker) I'm resetting on you, as if you never completed me to begin with! (followed by another snicker) How?! Well you'll just have to figure it out yourself!!!" To which maniacal joker laughter ensues, "AHHHHhhhh, heh-eh, eh, eh, eh!*"

    @Khisanth.2948 said:
    The infinity symbol is also less of an indicator that it can be repeated and more of an indicator that the heart has already been completed once for the purpose of map completion.

    Argue what you want at this point. If the Infinity Symbol as a whole is not the answer, with or without what I propose, then something else IS the answer, and whatever that something else may be, that is up for Anet to decide. The purpose of this thread is to get fellow players talking, to get something going rather than sit idly by and do absolutely nothing like many of you here encourage Anet to do, absolutely nothing, because you're too easily pleased to the point a lackluster Hearts system (a core element to the game) does not phase you! Anybody with a decent pair of eyeballs can see the Hearts system needs improvement.

    What almost kills me is you guys act like GW2 is some game created by some unknown, barely-making-it company supported by chump-change donations, that they do not have the funds, the time, or the staff to button-up or polish one of their newest systems. I can assure you there is nothing 'scarce' about GW2 other than developers who flesh out their ideas and systematic mechanics better before releasing them to hundreds of thousands of players worldwide online.

  • Eidolonemesis.5640Eidolonemesis.5640 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 17, 2017

    @Taygus.4571 said:
    It's the inifity for the hero points too.

    Pardon my late reply. Redoable Hearts is one thing, yet redoable Hero Points is a complete joke. It undermines all other Hero Points if all you have to do is farm one or two maps for all your Hero Points (except areas in Central Tyria that give only 1 Hero Point). Heck, at this point, just give us free Hero Points to unlock all our Traits by default, because why not? Redoable Hero Points makes the game even easier than it already was. Oh, and let's backtrack to the days like in GW1 where level 20 was the level cap, because why not?! Insta-level 80 items, along with oodles of easily acquired experience scrolls, makes the game easier than it already was. Such bright ideas! What's next to improve the game to such a groundbreaking degree? I can't wait to see!

    You're right, at this point I am going a little off topic, although not really since there are 'redoable' Hero Points, too. Conclusively, this is the direction the game is going (and has been going), along with its other broken and/or poorly implemented and explained systems, and the majority of you here do not care! Saaaaaaay somethin'! (in the voice of a sarcastic hillbilly [I got nothin' on hillbillies, btw; most of them are real chill people if you get to know one, much like myself. Just don't tick em off]).

    EDIT: Given what Ashen.2907 says is true (below) about the new redoable Hero Points, I withdraw from my ridicule in the above stated regarding redoable Hero Points. However, everything else I said remains the same.

  • Ashen.2907Ashen.2907 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Eidolonemesis.5640 said:

    @Taygus.4571 said:
    It's the inifity for the hero points too.

    Pardon my late reply. Redoable Hearts is one thing, yet redoable Hero Points is a complete joke. It undermines all other Hero Points if all you have to do is farm one or two maps for all your Hero Points (except areas in Central Tyria that give only 1 Hero Point). Heck, at this point, just give us free Hero Points to unlock all our Traits by default, because why not? Redoable Hero Points makes the game even easier than it already was. Oh, and let's backtrack to the days like in GW1 where level 20 was the level cap, because why not?! Insta-level 80 items, along with oodles of easily acquired experience scrolls, makes the game easier than it already was. Such bright ideas! What's next to improve the game to such a groundbreaking degree? I can't wait to see!

    Have you actually looked into the repeatable HP? They only grant a hero point the first time. Other rewards are given for subsequent completion.

  • Eidolonemesis.5640Eidolonemesis.5640 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 17, 2017

    @Ashen.2907 said:

    @Eidolonemesis.5640 said:

    @Taygus.4571 said:
    It's the inifity for the hero points too.

    Pardon my late reply. Redoable Hearts is one thing, yet redoable Hero Points is a complete joke. It undermines all other Hero Points if all you have to do is farm one or two maps for all your Hero Points (except areas in Central Tyria that give only 1 Hero Point). Heck, at this point, just give us free Hero Points to unlock all our Traits by default, because why not? Redoable Hero Points makes the game even easier than it already was. Oh, and let's backtrack to the days like in GW1 where level 20 was the level cap, because why not?! Insta-level 80 items, along with oodles of easily acquired experience scrolls, makes the game easier than it already was. Such bright ideas! What's next to improve the game to such a groundbreaking degree? I can't wait to see!

    Have you actually looked into the repeatable HP? They only grant a hero point the first time. Other rewards are given for subsequent completion.

    Correction. Hero Points in any of the new maps now grant 10 Hero Points each upon the first completion, ever since HoT. Now, as for subsequent rewards for completing the Hero Points again? No, I have not touched any of the Hero Points in any of the new maps for reason being every character I've leveled to 80 has their Traits completed.

    With that being said in mind, in the event the new redoable Hero Points do not grant players an additional 10 Hero Points, then I withdraw my ridicule against the new Hero Points. And as for the rest of what I said regarding the direction the game is going and has been going? Irrefutable facts are irrefutable facts, unless somebody wants to argue against them because they like everything easy mode, or... because they like to stir the pot for thrills.

  • Umut.5471Umut.5471 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 17, 2017

    Repeatable hearts are ok but their vendors should be unlocked permanently after you complete them once.

  • Eidolonemesis.5640Eidolonemesis.5640 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 17, 2017

    @Umut.5471 said:
    Repeatable hearts are ok but their vendors should be unlocked permanently after you complete them once.

    I agree. Repeatable Hearts are great! The concept, however, was poorly executed presentation-wise, and the fact vendors become locked again upon every reset. All locking the vendors does is create more grind than already exists in the game. Instead of Guild Wars 2, we should just call the game Grind Wars 2, because that is the direction the game is going, even more toward a second-job grindfest than a funfest. No thanks.

    I left the game for a while for a reason, and then came back after months and months, only to find nothing changes, other than a little tinsel around the edges to make the game look good, and some cannon-fired confetti to make the game seem fascinating.

  • Vayne.8563Vayne.8563 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I just want the content finder to stop pointing to hearts I've already done when I'm trying to get zone completion. The icon, as it stands, is acceptable to me. Not that it would hurt me if it changed colors.

  • Ashen.2907Ashen.2907 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Eidolonemesis.5640 said:

    @Ashen.2907 said:

    @Eidolonemesis.5640 said:

    @Taygus.4571 said:
    It's the inifity for the hero points too.

    Pardon my late reply. Redoable Hearts is one thing, yet redoable Hero Points is a complete joke. It undermines all other Hero Points if all you have to do is farm one or two maps for all your Hero Points (except areas in Central Tyria that give only 1 Hero Point). Heck, at this point, just give us free Hero Points to unlock all our Traits by default, because why not? Redoable Hero Points makes the game even easier than it already was. Oh, and let's backtrack to the days like in GW1 where level 20 was the level cap, because why not?! Insta-level 80 items, along with oodles of easily acquired experience scrolls, makes the game easier than it already was. Such bright ideas! What's next to improve the game to such a groundbreaking degree? I can't wait to see!

    Have you actually looked into the repeatable HP? They only grant a hero point the first time. Other rewards are given for subsequent completion.

    Correction. Hero Points in any of the new maps now grant 10 Hero Points each upon the first completion, ever since HoT. Now, as for subsequent rewards for completing the Hero Points again? No, I have not touched any of the Hero Points in any of the new maps for reason being every character I've leveled to 80 has their Traits completed.

    With that being said in mind, in the event the new redoable Hero Points do not grant players an additional 10 Hero Points, then I withdraw my ridicule against the new Hero Points. And as for the rest of what I said regarding the direction the game is going and has been going? Irrefutable facts are irrefutable facts, unless somebody wants to argue against them because they like everything easy mode, or... because they like to stir the pot for thrills.

    So, your ridicule of a system that doesn't exist stands? Right... Oh look, there is a fictional molehill that needs to be made into a mountain over there.

    Instant level 80 and experience scrolls don't make the game easier, in my opinion, as the lower levels lacked difficulty. The various instant XP mechanics allow a veteran player to more quickly move into the higher difficulty portions of the game. In the case of a new player those scrolls and such can actually increase the difficulty by moving him into content for which he is not yet sufficiently prepared.

    Opinions are not irrefutable facts.

  • Eidolonemesis.5640Eidolonemesis.5640 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 17, 2017

    @Ashen.2907 said:

    @Eidolonemesis.5640 said:

    @Ashen.2907 said:

    @Eidolonemesis.5640 said:

    @Taygus.4571 said:
    It's the inifity for the hero points too.

    Pardon my late reply. Redoable Hearts is one thing, yet redoable Hero Points is a complete joke. It undermines all other Hero Points if all you have to do is farm one or two maps for all your Hero Points (except areas in Central Tyria that give only 1 Hero Point). Heck, at this point, just give us free Hero Points to unlock all our Traits by default, because why not? Redoable Hero Points makes the game even easier than it already was. Oh, and let's backtrack to the days like in GW1 where level 20 was the level cap, because why not?! Insta-level 80 items, along with oodles of easily acquired experience scrolls, makes the game easier than it already was. Such bright ideas! What's next to improve the game to such a groundbreaking degree? I can't wait to see!

    Have you actually looked into the repeatable HP? They only grant a hero point the first time. Other rewards are given for subsequent completion.

    Correction. Hero Points in any of the new maps now grant 10 Hero Points each upon the first completion, ever since HoT. Now, as for subsequent rewards for completing the Hero Points again? No, I have not touched any of the Hero Points in any of the new maps for reason being every character I've leveled to 80 has their Traits completed.

    With that being said in mind, in the event the new redoable Hero Points do not grant players an additional 10 Hero Points, then I withdraw my ridicule against the new Hero Points. And as for the rest of what I said regarding the direction the game is going and has been going? Irrefutable facts are irrefutable facts, unless somebody wants to argue against them because they like everything easy mode, or... because they like to stir the pot for thrills.

    So, your ridicule of a system that doesn't exist stands? Right... Oh look, there is a fictional molehill that needs to be made into a mountain over there.

    Instant level 80 and experience scrolls don't make the game easier, in my opinion, as the lower levels lacked difficulty. The various instant XP mechanics allow a veteran player to more quickly move into the higher difficulty portions of the game. In the case of a new player those scrolls and such can actually increase the difficulty by moving him into content for which he is not yet sufficiently prepared.

    Opinions are not irrefutable facts.

    I have already stated in that comment (edited before your reply) that I withdrew my ridicule for said reasons. I did not touch any of the new redoable Hero Points because I did not feel the need to when all my characters are leveled 80 and have all their Traits, unlocked. However, now that I know they are 1. repeateable and 2. offer additional rewards (other than 10 more Hero Points again and again, as I initially thought), I will consider doing them.

    Now, far as everything else I said in that comment, yes, it still remains, and as far your counterargument goes, it dumbs down to a very desperate attempt equivalent to trying to disprove 1 + 1 = 2, yet no matter how hard you try to argue 1 + 1 = 3 instead (because you want to stir the pot here), you are going to be wrong again and again. You are the perfect example of someone who will argue for the sake of arguing, no matter how ridiculous your rhyme and reason.

    Furthermore, a new player, when auto-leveled to 80 using experience items, does not magically gain access to all end-game areas/content. They are still stuck in the beginning, low-level areas. Therefore, no increased difficulty is magically experienced for a new player upon using an insta-level 80 item, unless they purposely use a Portal to Friend to force themselves into end-game areas/content, and even then a new player (if they have a brain in their head) will know that is unwise to do without first acquiring the necessary gear and at least a little background knowledge regarding the mechanics of certain skills, combos, and fields.

    As for veteran players using the insta-level 80 items to level up quicker, yea, that may seem great, yet it still does not derail the fact using such items make the game too easy, whether a veteran players has been through the game 100 times or not. The fact that the 'incentive' to use such items is there (because they are so easily available) simply undermines the point of leveling a character at all in the first place, to the point we may as well be given level 80 characters from the beginning. That's my point.

    It's kind of like giving a dog table food; once they learn your food is better than their processed garbage (and believe me, they taste the difference), they're going to want the table food, just like players and their ridiculous insta-80 level items, because who wants to level the harder way? Not very many players.

    What other irrefutable facts will you try to disprove? Is having vendors locked again and again after Hearts reset not veered more toward 'grind' than 'replayability'? I say it is indeed veered toward grind. Fact or fiction? True of false? I call that a fact, and do some unchanging things not remain fact by default? What say you? Is the monitor in front of your face not for a fact sitting on either your lap, your floor, your bed, or your desk? Is the end of Shakespeare's Sonnet 116 not true, that he did indeed pen those words, whether or not you agree or disagree with his viewpoint on Love? I'm listening.

    Do you even know the difference between 'grind' and 'replayability'? I doubt it, so let me break it down: Grind = tedious, second-job-like work you do over and over again, either to acquire something or to unlock something over again = no fun = drives players away. Replayability = not having to do the same thing(s) over and over again like a second job to acquire what you want, or to unlock what you already unlocked again = something that is genuinely fun = keeps players playing.

    Is that just said not a fact, either? If not, then please enlighten us all regarding what defines a surefire fact in GW2. Better, describe to us all what defines an irrefutable fact, other than calling me a jerk and believing it to be absolutely true, when in fact I am a laid-back man who simply likes to battle with words by utilizing common sense in conjunction with analogies.

    P.S. I am going to sleep now, but I look forward to your response later today.

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