Am I just really bad?

I have finally caved into the pressure and built a full meta power DH guardian and.......it's alright. In raids where you have the backing of your teammates it is really good, but I just did a couple of T1 fractals and was getting downed constantly while in melee range. So now I'm wondering "am I just really bad at melee dps" or are these meta builds only good when put in a meta group comp? My gut instinct tells me that when I am in a team where there is no healer or dedicated support putting out buffs, running a build with zero personal survivability and no buff generation of my own seems like suicide.

Is this just a "git gud" scenario or would I be better running a non-meta build unless I'm running with a full meta comp?

Full meta dps build Works best, If every1 runs with it. Kinda like "kill it before it kills us". If your party dps IS too low, you will Be The one on The ground mostly.

this is mostly a matter of preference.You can do perfectly fine with a metabuild without the support but if you're feeling you take to much damage you can always take some defensive stats/skills/traits.

Power DH does actually generate some buffs on its own and it probably also has to do with the fact that you're not used to the class.

Full meta raid builds are generally meant for raids and organized teams. Pugging with a meta build if everyone else doesn't have one can be really tough. Meta isn't the "best" build. It's the agreed upon norm with a specific setup of supporting players. Without those players, it's not a better build. I'm relatively good at the game, not awesome, but pretty good and some meta builds suck for me if I'm not in a party with a healer and tank, which is what you get in raids. You can't expect to use that same build in every situation.

Thanks guys. I'll keep working on it and maybe change my skills around a bit and see if that helps.

Meta builds presented by qt or sc or others like them are prepared with organised group and certain party composition. Pugging glass DPS build with unoptimised group can be harder with these builds.

@Wandering Mist.2973 said:running a build with zero personal survivability and no buff generation of my own seems like suicide.

But you do have personal survivability. F3 is a 3 Seconds Block and you can play with Lithany of Wrath which pretty much turns you into a demi god for 6 seconds.You can also swap test of faith against somethign that else. Its not a high dps loss.

You're not playing with Litany of Wrath I guess, it's way better than the other healing skills because you regenerate your health so fast to 100% that it's difficult to die when you're dealing a lot of dps.

Shelter might only be good against bosses who can one shot you with 3/4 of their moves, otherwise it's bad.

Yeah, you got the right idea. Full berserker goes well with a healer in your group, like in raids or in good fractal groups. I play Power DD in fractals and only trait for full dps when I play with my guild mates. When I have to pug, I use the Invigorating Precision trait. I will do 10% less damage but that trait heals me when I deal damage. I also don't use power food but food that heals me when I land crits. Even when a pug healer is in the group, often he's not good enough to take care of his squishy team members. Power DH, Power DD and Power Weaver need to be looked after, then we are doing great. My DD has several ways to become more resilient without having to switch gear, check your DH's traits and see if you can find a setup that works with pugs. Cannot help in more detail since I have little experience with Guardian.

It's both:

• getting used to guardian and positioning is important in fractals as is knowing when to use defensive cooldowns
• raid meta builds are not often optimized for fractals. knowing when to deviate from the meta and switch out utilities depending on fractal and group composition is also a thing (reflect wall on volcanic is a prime example), stability on Uncategorized at rank 10+ would be another
• missing a healer or having a lot of party members be inefficient (which can be the case in T1 fractals) will further increase pressure, especially on heavy armor if you are paired with only light armor classes

When to use Litany of Wrath, F2, F3, dodge, GS 3 (blinds can make or break your day) takes a while.

My first recommendation would be to take a focus along and use it instead of the raid build torch in your offhand. Shield of Wrath is your friend.

@"Wandering Mist.2973" said:I have finally caved into the pressure and built a full meta power DH guardian and.......it's alright. In raids where you have the backing of your teammates it is really good, but I just did a couple of T1 fractals and was getting downed constantly while in melee range. So now I'm wondering "am I just really bad at melee dps" or are these meta builds only good when put in a meta group comp? My gut instinct tells me that when I am in a team where there is no healer or dedicated support putting out buffs, running a build with zero personal survivability and no buff generation of my own seems like suicide.

Is this just a "git gud" scenario or would I be better running a non-meta build unless I'm running with a full meta comp?

It's a bit of both. Meta builds are designed to be played in a group, but can me made to work in solo scenarios as well. It's normal to need some time to adjust if you never played a full dps build before.

Get a friend who run with healer build. Then you can pug naked If you want/jokeBut really druid or auramancer as ur fractal Buddy wont hurt

Pugging with a meta DH is going to be rough. First in pugs you absolutely need a cleanse that isn't the GS 4 + 2 combo, so you have one utility slot to switch out for it. I suggest the tiny blades coming out of the ground, it's not very good for dps anyway. Then, you need to use litany of wrath as your heal. You won't last long without it. That being said you play DH so you don't even have all of the situational utility firebrands have, it's indeed going to be a struggle especially if incoming damage is high. There are tricks to learn but it's specific to each fractal and I'd rather not get too deeply into it, but basically keep in mind that positioning is key and that decent dps + heavy armor means auto aggro on pretty much anything, so be ready for that.

As for pugs, some druids heal, some don't, at this point it's the lottery so your best bet is to not rely on that.

A bit of both i'd say. DH may feel extremely squishy without support, and it definitely is. It also has a lot of options to increase survivability, but you'd need to get used to them (which takes time). Still, you should be generally okay in T1 without support. Adapting to higher tiers can be really painful however. You'd need to learn all the kinds of panic buttons your build has, and possibly switch out some skills for survival. In pugs depending on help from other players is just too risky.

Now, all of the above depend on what class you've played before. I was transitioning from Reaper, and it was a really unpleasant experience. Friends that switched to DH from elementalists however were saying something completely different.

In general, don't be discouraged. While at the beginning dying (a lot) on DH is quite normal, once you'll get used to it, with time it is going to get better

Ignore this thread, its learn to play issue people pug t4's with non optimal specs all of the time, and their respective cms. Play more you'll get used to it.

@Genesis.5169 said:Ignore this thread, its learn to play issue people pug t4's with non optimal specs all of the time, and there respective cms. Play more you'll get used to it.

Truth...

Also, can't believe some of the comments from players who know better... people were running full glass comps w/o dedicated healers or support in FoTM for ages.

It's a familiarity issue. OP, you'll be fine if you keep at it.

The DH meta build is one that's rather survivable in fractals, even on its own. Familiarity is probably the biggest issue is you have problems with that build. However, keep in mind one thing: while the build is fine, the way of playing it may need adaptations depending on your group. If your group is bad, trying to play the strict rotation is usually a rather bad idea.

@Astralporing.1957 said:A bit of both i'd say. DH may feel extremely squishy without support, and it definitely is.

I needed a good laugh.

Dh is one of the tankier classes due to the fact it has blocks, reflects, and a massive base heal on just the F skills alone.

@FrostDraco.8306 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:A bit of both i'd say. DH may feel extremely squishy without support, and it definitely is.

I'd say it's more related to guardian aggro issues than just having a low health pool. It's a real problem in some/most fractals if dps isn't top tier.

Yeah I know the feeling. I main a P/P deadeye, made some ascended daggers thought lets try one of these meta thief builds, played first fractal got downed so much I was embarrassed, switched back to p/p and shortbow after. Was thinking of trying guardian next, they have scepter that's ranged right? Just switch to that one when it 's a crazy hard hitting boss.

@Silencio.2604 said:Yeah I know the feeling. I main a P/P deadeye, made some ascended daggers thought lets try one of these meta thief builds, played first fractal got downed so much I was embarrassed, switched back to p/p and shortbow after. Was thinking of trying guardian next, they have scepter that's ranged right? Just switch to that one when it 's a crazy hard hitting boss.

Or you could try to become a good player and start dodging stuff. There is not a single boss where range is a good option.

@Nephalem.8921 said:

@Silencio.2604 said:Yeah I know the feeling. I main a P/P deadeye, made some ascended daggers thought lets try one of these meta thief builds, played first fractal got downed so much I was embarrassed, switched back to p/p and shortbow after. Was thinking of trying guardian next, they have scepter that's ranged right? Just switch to that one when it 's a crazy hard hitting boss.

Yeah dodge with skill no.3, but my problem with learning that is it's all from memory, recognize animations. No telegraph system, or very little, or can't really see it when in melee range. For now I don't feel like dying over and over till I know it all, still on tier 2 fractals so have some more time left.

@"Wandering Mist.2973" said:I have finally caved into the pressure and built a full meta power DH guardian and.......it's alright. In raids where you have the backing of your teammates it is really good, but I just did a couple of T1 fractals and was getting downed constantly while in melee range. So now I'm wondering "am I just really bad at melee dps" or are these meta builds only good when put in a meta group comp? My gut instinct tells me that when I am in a team where there is no healer or dedicated support putting out buffs, running a build with zero personal survivability and no buff generation of my own seems like suicide.

Is this just a "git gud" scenario or would I be better running a non-meta build unless I'm running with a full meta comp?

When I boosted a revenant to 80 and started unlocking renegade and herald, I was getting downed left and right against everything (running full viper's gear) Now I pug T4 fractals on the daily with my qt approved meta deeps build. I do deviate from it occasionally, like swapping to ventari if no one else has projectile defense, or running invocation if the majority of my group is running condi builds. Life is a little bit tougher without a healer, but I do just fine most of the time.

Playing my DH in a dungeon for the first time in years, I marveled at how much more durable it was than my renegade, even with a full glass build. Learn the encounters, learn when to cycle your defensive cooldowns, learn when to put down your torch in favor of a focus, etc. Guardian has always had tons of survival tools, they just need to be used intelligently. I also recommend swapping your elite trap for renewed focus if you're having trouble. It'll give you 3 seconds of breathing room, and reset the cooldowns on your virtues, giving you a second block from shield of courage.

@FrostDraco.8306 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:A bit of both i'd say. DH may feel extremely squishy without support, and it definitely is.

To be brutally honest you can make a low level fractal with 1 guy who knows how the fractals and his/her class works, 2 other average players who know how to comprehend simple orders, a swarm of herings in a fishtank and the telephone book of Tokyo at the controls if the need arises. A low level fractal should not be in need of a healer.

Keep in mind that a meta build is squishy most of the time. You can´t oneshot mobs like other meta clad players who have no idea how their equipment works. Despite common belief and the propaganda of the meta people, mobs are not squishy for the average Joe. The price you pay for being leet later is lying in the dirt now, sorry. ;)