Jump to content
  • Sign Up

Two questions. Do you have to have full ascended gear to start raiding?


blambidy.3216

Recommended Posts

@"blambidy.3216" said:Right now all I have are two daggers that are ascended and rest are exotics, but except a couple of ascended earring i got from pvp. Basically just repeat season 3? Would I have to do anything specific on it?

Here is a detailed description which Living World Season 3 map provides which trinket items: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ascended_trinket

The vendors in Living World Season 3 maps offer ascended trinkets against Unbound Magic and the resource from that map.

Unbound Magic is easiest farmed with Winterberries which can be consumed (but are also required for rings and accessories). The Winterberry Forst in Bitterfrost Frontier is per character where as most other maps are per account limited in how much you can gather.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As mentioned above, exotic is just fine to start raiding. Going to full ascended would be worth about 10-15% more dps (half of that comes from weapons alone, which you already have). But since most raid bosses can be done with people doing only half their max potential dps, more of your dps potential comes from knowing how to play well than it does from having all the best gear.

As for the second question, if it's a condi D/D daredevil with viper's gear then yes, they do quite well in raids, although you require fairly precise positioning and awareness of mechanics to maximise your dps without jumping into a bad spot constantly. If it's a power D/D daredevil, then the dps is significantly lower than staff daredevil (plus staff's weakening charge just became infinitely more usable) and the only benefit I can think of is that it has more endurance available for dodging, but staff has #5 vault so it wins there too (plus daredevil in general should pretty much never run out of endurance when raiding with any build).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You don't need ascended gear to start raiding, though it does help a bit. If you're condi daredevil, you should be able to find squads rather easily. If you're power d/d daredevil...well, the worst problem will be finding squads that don't kick you right away. Though it's not like it's a difficult build to pull good damage on. At bosses that reveal, it's just auto-attacking from behind and maybe evading around. On (at least) wing 1/2 bosses, you'll be spamming dagger 5-dagger 1 and auto-attacking for good dps. And dagger 2 on all bosses (except ranged Deimos) after 25% left. By the way, getting also pistols for 2nd set is a good idea if you need to range for a moment or CC. But anyway, mostly try to stick to melee-range all the time unless mechanics require you to move away. And that's a good pistol time. And when you stick to melee-range, make sure you evade stuff like teleporting circles and other dangerous melee-range mechanics 'cause getting ported or dying is worst that can happen to you. And try to learn how to use basilisk venom, it's very useful on breakbars.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Aplier.7829 said:As mentioned above, exotic is just fine to start raiding. Going to full ascended would be worth about 10-15% more dps (half of that comes from weapons alone, which you already have). But since most raid bosses can be done with people doing only half their max potential dps, more of your dps potential comes from knowing how to play well than it does from having all the best gear.

As for the second question, if it's a condi D/D daredevil with viper's gear then yes, they do quite well in raids, although you require fairly precise positioning and awareness of mechanics to maximise your dps without jumping into a bad spot constantly. If it's a power D/D daredevil, then the dps is significantly lower than staff daredevil (plus staff's weakening charge just became infinitely more usable) and the only benefit I can think of is that it has more endurance available for dodging, but staff has #5 vault so it wins there too (plus daredevil in general should pretty much never run out of endurance when raiding with any build).

Hmmm alright. I’ll go for making a staff then for pure dps. I would do condi except everything is dps right now. Maybe later on condi I could do.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you want to play condi Daredevil, stay at daggers and get Viper's gear. It makes not much sense to craft exotic Viper's gear though, and you cannot buy it anywhere. It's so expensive that it's worth skipping and getting Viper's ascended armor. Don't use staff or pistols when you play condi Daredevil, these are good for power builds. Don't use shortbow either, it sucks. Instead equip two daggers only, one in the first main hand slot, the other in the second offhand slot. I use geomancy sigils that trigger at weapon swap. You can swap weapons that way and keep your D/D.

You are confusing things and it shows when you say "I would do condi except everything is dps right now." dps = damage per second. It doesn't care if you are using condition damage or power based damage. And the game is more going towards favouring condition damage builds. If you want to use staff or pistols, you need completely different gear than if you go with daggers. If you just switch weapons and traits, you'll be disappointed, and so will be your raid party. Some weapons work well with power and bad with condi and vice versa.

Power Daredevil with staff is ok, unless you want to join speed clear parties. In raids, you adjust to the boss though. While I can do pretty good damage with my Power DD at Deimos, it's really not so good at Cairn compared to what a condi DD can do (or other classes). So if you really want to play thief at raids, it's a good idea to either have two thieves, one set up for power and one for condi, or switch gear depending on the boss.

Which stat combinations do you have on your current armor?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@"Faaris.8013" said:If you want to play condi Daredevil, stay at daggers and get Viper's gear. It makes not much sense to craft exotic Viper's gear though, and you cannot buy it anywhere. It's so expensive that it's worth skipping and getting Viper's ascended armor. Don't use staff or pistols when you play condi Daredevil, these are good for power builds. Don't use shortbow either, it sucks. Instead equip two daggers only, one in the first main hand slot, the other in the second offhand slot. I use geomancy sigils that trigger at weapon swap. You can swap weapons that way and keep your D/D.

You are confusing things and it shows when you say "I would do condi except everything is dps right now." dps = damage per second. It doesn't care if you are using condition damage or power based damage. And the game is more going towards favouring condition damage builds. If you want to use staff or pistols, you need completely different gear than if you go with daggers. If you just switch weapons and traits, you'll be disappointed, and so will be your raid party. Some weapons work well with power and bad with condi and vice versa.

Power Daredevil with staff is ok, unless you want to join speed clear parties. In raids, you adjust to the boss though. While I can do pretty good damage with my Power DD at Deimos, it's really not so good at Cairn compared to what a condi DD can do (or other classes). So if you really want to play thief at raids, it's a good idea to either have two thieves, one set up for power and one for condi, or switch gear depending on the boss.

Which stat combinations do you have on your current armor?

My stats are all power, precision, furocity. Two daggers ascended. I have couple ear pieces ascended. And an amulet that’s ascended. But armor is the same stat based. Just exotics. But with sigil of scholar. Weapons have sigil or air and the other is force.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@blambidy.3216 said:My stats are all power, precision, furocity. Two daggers ascended. I have couple ear pieces ascended. And an amulet that’s ascended. But armor is the same stat based. Just exotics. But with sigil of scholar. Weapons have sigil or air and the other is force.

Alright. So daggers don't work well with your power based build. You have three options:

  • keep the daggers with your power build. Be warned, you will do so little damage, parties won't have you.
  • change your gear to Viper's and use daggers. Expensive, and you would also have to switch stats on your daggers. Condi DD is better than power DD in most raid scenarios, so that would make your group happier.
  • leave your daggers in the bank and get a staff. It's cheaper than the other options and greatly increases your damage output. There are better damage classes for raids, but as long as you are not into speed clears, should work fine.

Once thing to remember: raid squads who ask for a dps class want exactly that, someone who can deliver damage. Thief's job is to do damage and break defiance bars, nothing else (well, maybe to get to green circles quickly). There are already several classes that are better at dealing damage, so you have little room for failure. If you have a really good rotation and there's a Weaver whose rotation is not great, he'll probably still outdamage you. Thief is in a bad state when it comes to raids because we add little nothing else than dps and cc to the group.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

You don't have to have ascended to beat the bosses, but you do because if you don't link a full set meta build most groups kick you out. You also HAVE to have discord or teamspeak or one of those, even if you know the fight so well you could solo it if not for damage numbers

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Fenom.9457 said:You don't have to have ascended to beat the bosses, but you do because if you don't link a full set meta build most groups kick you out. You also HAVE to have discord or teamspeak or one of those, even if you know the fight so well you could solo it if not for damage numbers

That really is not the case anymore. Before dps meters were a thing, commanders asked to ping a meta build so they can be assured that the person has at least potential to do good dps. Since the arrival of dps meters you are judged by your dps output and are able to prove that your build works even if it is not meta.

That is how it is for dps at least. For a support, dps meters also provide stats for boon uptime. And healer can be judged by how well they keep ppl alive. And since you can see incoming damage aswell you can't always blame the healer when ppl are dying if they don't know how to avoid incoming damage with proper positioning and dodges.

And with discord and stuff. They are pretty much only needed (for convenience) when doing training or having inexperienced ppl. And even if the group requires discord, it really is not that hard to open browser and use the webclient to just listen what the commander has to say. It doesn't even require registration.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Fenom.9457 said:You don't have to have ascended to beat the bosses, but you do because if you don't link a full set meta build most groups kick you out. You also HAVE to have discord or teamspeak or one of those, even if you know the fight so well you could solo it if not for damage numbers

Doing pve bosses I wouldn’t worry about just exotics. But when we want to do raids it’s a different story. Metas are easy and it’s something I don’t struggle with. Me and a few people are talking fractals and raids.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

For the first question : Do you need full asc - No. Its very much possible with full exotics.

Is d/d good? - I will say viable(?) Its not exactly bad, I do raid with a d/d thief (we know the reason why ;-) ) But if you're comparing "good" with others, there are better dps or boon giving classes. Entirely depends on your squad there.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Real answer, no... Exotic is more than enough stat weight to clear any raid content.

Real, real answer, yes... Especially if you're hoping to pug raids, as people generally equate gear level with experience and/or commitment. Plus, when you're pugging, you have the mentality of getting things done quickly and wanting the best possible chance at a successful pull since nobody is really invested in each other on a personal level.

Also, towards your gearing priority, when you play power dps, getting an ascended weapon should be your #1 priority, as it actually has higher base damage coefficients, as well as the stats. Staff DD is generally still considered the thief power spec to go with, but I've seen builds/benchmarks that actually have Power Dagger Deadeye slightly above it--although I have literally never seen anyone play this in game.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Since people are bringing in PUG raiding (which I personally would not recommend to start out on), here is my take on how important ascended gear is:

If you spent 1% of the time it takes to get full ascended gear on the training golem and on some out of game guides (say around 1-2 hours tops), you will outperform everybody else in full ascended with your full exotic gear.

If you want to run in blind with 0 clue of your class, build, boss mechanics, etc. full ascended will be less important than the patience of your raid lead or practice group.

In either scenario, full ascended (especially armor) is not required.

Ascended trinkets are quite easy to get via Living World Season 3, and as mentioned ascended weapons are useful due to their higher damage stat combined with quite a big chunk of stats.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Understanding the class you're playing(tweak it if needed for different encounters) and try to perform the task without dying(or not early during the encounter), Stat choice, use of food & utilities nourishment in raid is more important imo.

What narcx.3570 said, do be aware about the mentality of most PuG groups. Which makes training groups or guild runs a better choice to start raid. @Cynjnja: Ascended trinket is easy provided they have the living story unlocked and not in a hurry (time gated gatherings).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Trinkets. Always go for ascended trinkets. They're the cheapest, easiest upgrade to get vs exotic as they usually only take time. Weapons after trinkets because they're the next easiest, and if you're a DPS not only will you see a stat upgrade with the usual exotic to ascended, but a damage upgrade too with weapon damage modifiers being slightly higher. Armor isn't all that important at that point. It's less than a 2% boost to damage or effectiveness to go for armor but if you plan on doing high level fractals or world record attempt speed clears, you'll want it for the min/maxing. Now the stats aren't going to save you from not knowing the mechanics of the fight or what your class can do. Watch videos of the fight, do some research, understand your class and rotations, practice them, and you'll be fine.

Though for a first class to foray into raids with, I'd suggest power staff daredevil as the gear is berserker and would be easy enough to acquire those stats and their rotation is easy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Weapons+trinkets with proper sigils should be entry, it doesn't take long at all and those DO make a noticeable difference for 1 player output, then times than by 10.

Armor? No not at all, but as long as your exotic armor is the correct type and has proper runes--this makes a MASSIVE difference-- then it's fine. But let's say you want viper, I'd rather save that for ascended viper than waste it on exotic viper.

But no, you don't "need" it, but it does help a little. Armor is about 2.5% difference in output, x10, it's not massive but could mean the difference between a wipe. But definitely get ascended weapons and trinkets, it's so easy now and put in a proper sigil, it's makes a massive difference.

And Kheldon there is nothing wrong with the community wanting to see some effort and no you don't need full ascended armor. There' are multiple ways to farm 15g/hour, you can make ascended weapons for 35-65g and get full ascended trinkets in 1-2 weeks via LW3. If you have more than one 80 then full trinkets can take you as low as a few days.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:Game objectively doesn't require you to have ascended gear. The problem, as with everything in GW2, is its community.

High level fractals do objectively require you to have ascended gear. But that's only a very small portion of the game. Still, I'm one of those who always strives to have best in slot equipment, even if the gain is minor.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Quarktastic.1027 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:Game objectively doesn't require you to have ascended gear. The problem, as with everything in GW2, is its community.

High level fractals do objectively require you to have ascended gear. But that's only a very small portion of the game. Still, I'm one of those who always strives to have best in slot equipment, even if the gain is minor.

This thread is about raiding, not fractals.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...