OP Updated: The reason 'Enemy of My Enemy' in the PoF Storyline is terrible

The conclusions I came to throughout this thread // what was pointed out along the way (and what a war with words it was!):

Update: Okay, so yes, Lady Kasmeer is a Mesmer and Lady Kasmeer does make illusions, mind you, a terrible one at that (nothing I did not already know), and with that being said in mind, that has been my point throughout this entire discussion, yet nobody throughout this thread figured that out.

I believe the developers could have done a much better job at creating a more better, 'clearer' illusion of Archon Iberu, either as a 'overlay' over your character's entire body (fill it out more) OR as I have argued, a complete illusory, purple form of Archon Iberu that replaces your character's model, that which would still indicate it is in fact an 'illusion' used as a disguise.

Furthermore, throughout this discussion, somebody did prove that, yes, a depiction of Archon Iberu's illusion does exist on our character's model beyond a 'purple blob' efffect: https://i.imgur.com/gRdGOrz.jpg yet while the illusion shows up a little better on other races, the 'overlay' illusion of Archon Iberu is so underwhelmingly developed so as to not be very 'clear', notably at a distance, even on other races.

And in some cases, Archon Iberu's model does not show at all depending on a character's size/height, as shown in this screenshot I took: https://imgur.com/a/0mMTa My screenshot proves the illusion of Archon Iberu's illusion is not scaled properly for all character sizes/heights.

The reason why I initially argued the illusion of Archon Iberu 'did not exist at all' is because I did not see Archon Iberu's illusion whatsoever on MY character during the Storyline (as seen in the screenshot I provided). Issues like that should not be a thing in any first playthrough in any Storyline.

The Achievement BUG nobody acknowledged throughout this thread: (an issue I tagged on my OP because it is relevant to the PoF Storyline)

Please fix the bug that keeps occurring in the 'The Departed' part of the Storyline for the achievement 'The Whole Story' that fails to get achieved, even after watching all memory events. I have done that part of the Storyline 4 times and still no achievement. I then looked up some forums, and apparently, the bug in 'The Whole Story' achievement has been going on for a while now. Why is the bug not getting fixed?

Feedback from other players would have been nice, yet pride got in the way to admit I was 100% right about this bug being an issue in the PoF Storyline.

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My initial feedback:

In other parts of the game, even outside of instanced Storylines (where you get to disguise yourself as a certain group or an individual), we look like part of that group or look like that individual, yet when my character is supposed to be disguised as Archon Iberu, I look nothing like him, and in going through this part of the Storyline, the whole experience was ruined.

Why is our character model not changed to look like Archon Iberu? Lady Kasmeer Meade and Rytlock Brimstone are disguised, yet not us when playing through this part of the Storyline. And playing through Storylines is not just a one-time thing; I like to repeat the Storylines, so yes, something like this in the game is a big deal to me.

Player class should not matter during this part of the story. Anyone going through this part of the story should be disguised as Archon Iberu, and at his exact size/height. Instead, we have a small purple effect around our head. While that may not make sense if you are playing as an Asura (technically), it makes less sense with no disguise at all. The whole point of the 'Enemy of My Enemy' part of the Storyline is to fool everyone, and the Storyline does a very poor job at conveying deceit on our character's part, because we still look like we normally do, not like Archon Iberu.

As for the rest of PoF's Storyline, smooth sailing thus far!

I will assume our model don't change is the same excuse on why we can't use tonics and mount.Also, I just thought about it... at what point did we lose the disguise during the final mission?

As you said, our model never changes and it's just a stupid aura so I never thought about it until now, but I don't recall having that aura during the end battle and if I did, how would Balthazar know it was me?

I recall that the "trick" was that we weren't using a disguise. At all. Canach and Rytlock are complaining quite heavily during this story section because the illusionary disguises they wore were uncomfortable. I remember thatthe Commander was asked by someone why they didn't have to wear the illusion as well, to which the response was something to the effect of "The Archon's bodyguards were all Awakened, but the Archon was not, so I didnt need a[n Awakened] disguise."

It feels like I must have missed something, because there is no possible way that plan was put forth by either me or my friend's Commander as they went through the story; we are a Charr and Asura, respectively, of which there are almost none in the whole desert.

The reason is that more people probably prefer to see their character than those that want to be replaced by a different model.I thought it was great, we're being masked by an illusion. You can see the illusion depicted above your head, but you don't have to deal with a completely different model for no reason. It's an artistic choice, and it makes sense thematically.

I can't tell if there is a game-wide direction, or if it's just one dev team vs. another. Back in Lake Doric we put on whole-body disguises during a heart quest, and in Bitterfrost Frontier we put on whole-body disguises after collecting armor pieces. These were open world disguises, not related to the story.

Do the dev teams do their own thing, or is there a singular design to which they all work. Seems like a mixed bag to me.

It's because we needed to be able to mount during those missions.
Adding a buff icon and some purple fog is easier than creating an Archon Iberu character model with mount animations.

@Sevifor.1925 said:I recall that the "trick" was that we weren't using a disguise. At all. Canach and Rytlock are complaining quite heavily during this story section because the illusory disguises they wore were uncomfortable. I remember that

Except the 'trick' is that we WERE using a disguise, just an illusory disguise cast on us by Lady Kasmeer (who is a Mesmer). It did just as good had everyone been using a non-illusory disguise. Furthermore, our character, as well Lady Kasmeer and Rytlock Brimstone, complained about the illusory outfits, except our character is always in our own outfit the entire Storyline (basically complaining about our original outfits we put on our character) when we should be looking like Archon Iberu no matter what class we are playing.

@Sevifor.1925 said:the Commander was asked by someone why they didn't have to wear the illusion as well, to which the response was something to the effect of "The Archon's bodyguards were all Awakened, but the Archon was not, so I didnt need a[n Awakened] disguise."

Nowhere in 'Enemy of My Enemy' is the Commander (our character) asked why he or she does not have to wear the illusory outfit. Furthermore, the entire Awakened Army knows Archon Iberu very well, despite being human, for reason being Palawa Joko is the one who converted Archon Iberu to serve him.

You are missing a big part of Archon Iberu's role, and if you read the Wiki, it says, "Archon Iberu is a high-ranking officer in the Mordant Crescent. In the past, he had opposed Palawa Joko, but was eventually converted to serve him. Iberu rose to the high rank of Archon while still human and has taken to converting Elonians, who have fled north to locations such as Amnoon, into following Joko."

@Sevifor.1925 said:It feels like I must have missed something, because there is no possible way that plan was put forth by either me or my friend's Commander as they went through the story; we are a Charr and Asura, respectively, of which there are almost none in the whole desert.

Player class should not matter during this part of the story. Anyone going through this part of the story should be disguised as Archon Iberu, and at his exact size/height. Instead, we have a small purple effect around our head. While that may not make sense if you are playing as an Asura (technically), it makes less sense with no disguise at all. The whole point of the 'Enemy of My Enemy' part of the Storyline is to fool everyone, and the Storyline does a very poor job at conveying deceit on our character's part, because we still look like we normally do, not like Archon Iberu.

@Klipso.8653 said:It's because we needed to be able to mount during those missions.

Adding a buff icon and some purple fog is easier than creating an Archon Iberu character model with mount animations.

That is no excuse because even in less-important parts of the game we can still disguise ourselves, either during a Storyline or outside a Storyline, and mind you, the new Mount animations work with those older parts of the game just fine.

From what I have seen in game development videos IS if there are already-made models of either weapons, back attachments, armor (like we wear that 'attaches' to our character's body), OR whole character models, then all the developers do from there is 'replace' and/or 'attach' that model to our character's model (in the game code), because only the bare bones of a character itself is already coded to animate with all-existing animations. From there, anything can be put on your character.

How do you think it works with Gem Store outfits? Do you really think the developers go through every single piece of armor to look right with every single animation in the game? Heck no. That would be a behemoth of work, and Gem Store outfits would be more than just 700 Gems.

Hypothetically speaking, even if I WAS wrong in the above stated, then if Anet really DID go through every character outfit to ensure they look good during any animation, including but not limited to, the new Mount animations, then how much more work is it, really, to do the same with an Archon Iberu character model?

The bottom line is Anet rushed this part of the Storyline, and because of that rush, playing through 'Enemy of My Enemy' makes no sense running around in our original character models instead of Archon Iberu in this part of the Storyline. Every other part in the game that calls for a disguise let's us go completely in disguise.

@Kal Spiro.9745 said:The reason is that more people probably prefer to see their character than those that want to be replaced by a different model.I thought it was great, we're being masked by an illusion. You can see the illusion depicted above your head, but you don't have to deal with a completely different model for no reason. It's an artistic choice, and it makes sense thematically.

Yet going in complete disguise in other parts of the game is fine? It only makes sense if you are to be disguised that you look like the disguise. Not doing so only ruins the 'concept' of going in disguise and in turn ruins the 'direction' of this part of the game.

The issue is 'lack of consistency' with this part of PoF's Storyline vs. other parts of the game that calls for a complete disguise. That is not very hard to understand. It is a Storyline, after all, so yes, it will make better sense if our original character models are replace with Archon Iberu's model. This part of the Storyline should therefore not be any different from any other part of the game where we go in complete disguise.

The reason they left us unchanged character-model wise is because their transformation system directly interferes with mounts and is not something capable of being fixed without doing some deep-code diving. That's why they were present in other story instances earlier in the game or in other parts of the story where you're incapable of using mounts anyway.

@Cuon Alpinus.7645 said:The reason they left us unchanged character-model wise is because their transformation system directly interferes with mounts and is not something capable of being fixed without doing some deep-code diving. That's why they were present in other story instances earlier in the game or in other parts of the story where you're incapable of using mounts anyway.

Citation of any developer saying that or it is therefore not a valid excuse. And please explain why in older parts of the game when you go in disguise, and then Mount, that everything is just fine animation-wise?

I do not understand in these forums where when valid issues are brought up, people like you find any way to discourage Anet to fix their blunders that stick out like a plank in one's eye. No wonder Anet is doing a poorer job than in earlier parts of the game; people simply do not care, and will accept anything in the game how you can get it, no matter if it's broken, looks bad, etc.

@Ayumi Spender.1082 said:I will assume our model don't change is the same excuse on why we can't use tonics and mount.Also, I just thought about it... at what point did we lose the disguise during the final mission?

As you said, our model never changes and it's just a stupid aura so I never thought about it until now, but I don't recall having that aura during the end battle and if I did, how would Balthazar know it was me?

Tonics are one thing because they come in all shapes and sizes and would in turn not look visually appealing when Mounted. Therefore, it is not a matter of Anet's team not being able to code it, but a matter of most tonics not looking good on Mounts, and Anet knows that (big difference). However, not allowing us to Mount with an Archon Iberu model during a Storyline makes no sense whatsoever.

@Eidolonemesis.5640 said:

@Ayumi Spender.1082 said:I will assume our model don't change is the same excuse on why we can't use tonics and mount.Also, I just thought about it... at what point did we lose the disguise during the final mission?

As you said, our model never changes and it's just a stupid aura so I never thought about it until now, but I don't recall having that aura during the end battle and if I did, how would Balthazar know it was me?

Not if his shape and design does not work on it.There's a lot of humanoid tonics that we can use during battle, gliding, emotes, but can't on mounts.We've never seen Archon on a mount.

@Eidolonemesis.5640 said:

@"Cuon Alpinus.7645" said:The reason they left us unchanged character-model wise is because their transformation system directly interferes with mounts and is not something capable of being fixed without doing some deep-code diving. That's why they were present in other story instances earlier in the game or in other parts of the story where you're incapable of using mounts anyway.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/74re46/pof_developer_ama_summary/

"Currently you can’t use mounts while being transformed – This will likely stay. We currently don’t really really have different classifications of transforms(they are used in all sorts of ways across the game) and a lot of them that would be cause issues or balance concerns if we let you mount and remove the transform."

In other words, in order to get mount TFs to work without breaking a whole lot of stuff, they'd have to retool the part of the engine/game that handles transformations- something that is going to be extremely difficult after 5 years of continuously building on the same antiquated engine. It'd be nice for there to be some more QoL stuff related to TF-mount interactions, like being automatically de-transformed, or hacking together a solution JUST for that story instance. I'm not saying they handled it as well as they possibly could, but there are definitely significant issues outside of their control for certain aspects.

To say I don't care is ignorant and horribly assumptive. I do care about the quality of the game, but I understand that the dev team are human beings with limitations that are trying to put resources toward areas of the game which need a lot more attention.

I had this exact issue raised in another topic, sadly some people disagreed and claimed looking like Iberu would have been less fun.I prefer true immersion, but this was apparently a two camp issue where pleasing both sides would've been impossible

@Ayakaru.6583 said:I had this exact issue raised in another topic, sadly some people disagreed and claimed looking like Iberu would have been less fun.I prefer true immersion, but this was apparently a two camp issue where pleasing both sides would've been impossible

No clue how it would be less fun as I still see my character in every other thing that's in the game/story.

I guess being a Nuhoch during that one event in Tangled Depth was less fun because I wasn't playing as my actual character and roping the beetles with my tongue and making my arms somehow fling 3 or more of the beetles at a time in the pen.

@Ayumi Spender.1082 said:

@"Ayakaru.6583" said:I had this exact issue raised in another topic, sadly some people disagreed and claimed looking like Iberu would have been less fun.I prefer true immersion, but this was apparently a two camp issue where pleasing both sides would've been impossible

Its not my argument, just one raised a lot..I preferred real models over "everyone pretending I'm transformed"

I would like to have an illusory disguise present in situations such as this. It would make that aspect of the story more impactful for me.

That said, I can handwave it off as my character being able to see through an illusory disguise placed on himself if I have to.

I am somewhat forgiving when a developer is trying to do something that is limited by their tech, but wonder why, if the tech limits their ability to do X well, they dont do Y instead. Everything has strenghts and weaknesses. Play to your strenghts. If you cant do X because of the limitations of your code, then find something within the scope of your code/engine/whatever's strenghts instead?

Jesus, is this for real? lol come on dude everyone is transformed on those story steps, you can clearly see the purple aura and Iberu silhoutte around your character, clearly indicating that you looks and sounds just like him...Anet probably done like this cause a lot of people didnt like to play as Caithe on some story episodes before HoT.

Personally, I wouldn't see the illusion of me being Iberu, everyone else would see me as Iberu but I would still see myself as me...that explains why we didn't see our characters transformed, at least that's a good enough reason for me.

@Felipe.1807 said:Jesus, is this for real? lol come on dude everyone is transformed on those story steps, you can clearly see the purple aura and Iberu silhoutte around your character, clearly indicating that you looks and sounds just like him...Anet probably done like this cause a lot of people didnt like to play as Caithe on some story episodes before HoT.

I say it's because of Caithe then and not because you played as her.

Also, it would've been even cheaper for Arenanet as they would've just had one voice actor to pay for us to be in a disguise until that one part in the middle of the story, the parts before transformation, and the final battle.

It's an illusion, not a disguise. Doesn't seem that unreasonable for the affected individual to experience it slightly differently than an outside observer.

@Felipe.1807 said:Jesus, is this for real? lol come on dude everyone is transformed on those story steps, you can clearly see the purple aura and Iberu silhoutte around your character, clearly indicating that you looks and sounds just like him...Anet probably done like this cause a lot of people didnt like to play as Caithe on some story episodes before HoT.

Pardon my late reply.

I played 'Enemy of My Enemy' on my Charr, and all I see is a purple blob effect that shows no such illusory silhouette, disguise, call it what you want. Even more the reason we should just be given an Archon Iberu model, notably a transparent purple one that replaces our character's model (to give off the idea of an illusion).

@Eidolonemesis.5640 said:

@Kal Spiro.9745 said:The reason is that more people probably prefer to see their character than those that want to be replaced by a different model.I thought it was great, we're being masked by an illusion. You can see the illusion depicted above your head, but you don't have to deal with a completely different model for no reason. It's an artistic choice, and it makes sense thematically.

Sorry, but this sounds like QQing to me for the sake of QQing. They're allowed to go in a different direction. The concept was maintained, the execution was changed. It didn't affect anything, though. It enhanced my enjoyment of the event, it detracted from yours. Get over it, because if you're only argument is that they did it one way before so they must never do it any other way, that's a terrible argument. How about this. There is only one other instance I know of in which the player is shrouded in an illusion and that occurs in the beginning of the human story, which also makes it very old. But we've also never been shrouded by Kasmeer before, so lorewise, we can say that Kasmeer uses her spells differently. The result is that you can perceive yourself despite the illusion.

@Kal Spiro.9745 said:

@Eidolonemesis.5640 said:

@Kal Spiro.9745 said:The reason is that more people probably prefer to see their character than those that want to be replaced by a different model.I thought it was great, we're being masked by an illusion. You can see the illusion depicted above your head, but you don't have to deal with a completely different model for no reason. It's an artistic choice, and it makes sense thematically.

Look, that's you guys' opinion, yet no matter what anyone says here, I stick by my words that how we are disguised (in the 'Enemy of My Enemy' part of PoF's Storyline) makes no sense whatsoever.

How about we place our focus on the other elephant in the room in the OP for a moment, instead of reading a half and not a whole. What about 'The Whole Story' achievement BUG that's not been fixed for a while? You guys ridicule only one part of the OP, yet the second part in the OP is also relevant to the PoF Storyline.