What if Mirage... — Guild Wars 2 Forums

What if Mirage...

Morwath.9817Morwath.9817 Member ✭✭✭✭

...would have bleeding instead of Confusion?

Comments

  • Vieux P.1238Vieux P.1238 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Morwath.9817 said:
    ...would have bleeding instead of Confusion?

    what's wrong with Fire or poison? I mean we already have lots bleeding.

    Winter Nerf is coming!

  • Morwath.9817Morwath.9817 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 20, 2017

    @Vieux P.1238 said:

    @Morwath.9817 said:
    ...would have bleeding instead of Confusion?

    what's wrong with Fire or poison? I mean we already have lots bleeding.

    Quaggan thinks any of those would be less confusing than confusion, which is good thing.

    @Pimsley.3681 said:
    Confusion fits the role of the mind manipulating Mesmer.

    Ooo, yes. In Quaggans opinion Mesmer has enough confusion by himself, if we put Mirage on top of it, we get something completly confusing.

  • Vieux P.1238Vieux P.1238 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 20, 2017

    Funny I din't hear Quaggan complaining before patch when Quaggans scourge was owning everybody with his instant condi blast. Now that Quaggans necro is susceptible to confusion that is.

    Winter Nerf is coming!

  • Morwath.9817Morwath.9817 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Vieux P.1238 said:
    Funny I din't hear Quaggan complaining before patch when Quaggans scourge was owning everybody with his instant condi blast. Now that Quaggans necro is susceptible to confusion that is.

    Ooo? Quaggan has played 0 games as Scrooge McDuck.
    His ranked games were Firebrand (EU) and Core Necro (NA)*, and in Unranked he played literaly everything but Scrooge.

  • Cynz.9437Cynz.9437 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Vieux P.1238 said:

    @Morwath.9817 said:
    ...would have bleeding instead of Confusion?

    what's wrong with Fire or poison? I mean we already have lots bleeding.

    Confusion punishes you for using condi cleanse. Fire or poison doesn't.

    GW is P2Win. We are always lied to.

  • Swagg.9236Swagg.9236 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 20, 2017

    @Pimsley.3681 said:
    Confusion fits the role of the mind manipulating Mesmer.

    Confusion is the biggest cop-out design substitute for manually layered, blue-mage-style pressure that I have ever seen in video games. Also, flavor design should never supersede function. Make it work first and then give it a name or color. Confusion is a cheap, backwards concept thrown in to make pretend that mesmer is some sort of roundabout illusion mage when it's really just the most straightforward playstyle possible.

  • Furious.2867Furious.2867 Member ✭✭✭

    Right now the very best way to counter Mirage is with another Mirage which is not a very good game design. Good thing Mirages and mesmers in general don't do too well when stacked in a team unlike Scourge and FB.

    Its' easy to see how one can be confused to death:
    Damage over time (WvW and sPvP):
    (0.035 * Condition Damage) + 10 damage per stack per second.
    Damage on skill activation (WvW and sPvP):
    (0.0625 * Condition Damage) + 49.5 damage per stack.

  • Furious.2867Furious.2867 Member ✭✭✭

    I changed my avatar so I can be a Quaggan too. Quaggan Quaggan.

    I don't know much about GW lore but are Quaggans edible? They're like fishy fleshly turtles right, they can survive in the sea and on land? But they're also rotund and chubby like whales.

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 20, 2017

    @Vieux P.1238 said:

    @Morwath.9817 said:
    ...would have bleeding instead of Confusion?

    what's wrong with Fire or poison? I mean we already have lots bleeding.

    Fire and poison is the answer here.

    1 confusion stack is replaced by 1 burn and 1 poision.

    Also, since so many people complain about the stun break on elusive mind that trait should be changed so that if you apply burning or poison to a target, it has a 60% chance to apply poision and burning (no internal cd).

    I added the 60% chance to balance it, np.

  • Pimsley.3681Pimsley.3681 Member ✭✭✭

    @Swagg.9236 said:

    @Pimsley.3681 said:
    Confusion fits the role of the mind manipulating Mesmer.

    Confusion is the biggest cop-put design substitute for manually layered, blue-mage-style pressure that I have ever seen in video games. Also, flavor design should never supersede function. Make it work first and then give it a name or color. Confusion is a cheap, backwards concept thrown in to make pretend that mesmer is some sort of roundabout illusion mage when it's really just the most straightforward playstyle possible.

    Hard to disagree with you. I play Weaver and power Rev...coz millennial hipster.

  • jihm.2315jihm.2315 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 20, 2017

    so what you supposed to do you do when you eat a torment and a confusion go make coffee ?

  • MyPuppy.8970MyPuppy.8970 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I'd prefer cripple.

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    How about Anet reverts confusion and torment to their pre hot functionality. U know when they were absolutely fine.

  • Morwath.9817Morwath.9817 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @zealex.9410 said:
    How about Anet reverts confusion and torment to their pre hot functionality. U know when they were absolutely fine.

    Quaggan is afraid it could affect PvE too much.

  • saerni.2584saerni.2584 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Confusion itself is fine. Maybe the durations available on some skills need to be reduced instead.

    Most of the mirage hate has to do with survivability over burst damage. People can always say “learn to dodge” but hard to tell them what they did wrong when the mirage perma evaded/blocked their way to victory.

    On that note I’d suggest increasing the mirage mirrors based on the number of enemy players nearby. That way you get more defense in group fights and can tone down the 1v1 invuln spam.

    Northern Shiverpeaks (NSP)
    Deadeye (Thief)
    Commandant of P/D and Apex Predator

  • Confusion is (burst)dmg + soft CC
    It's not a good design by its nature but better than the perma evade/invlun
    Am I saying the Mirage is way OP?

  • Curunen.8729Curunen.8729 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Bleed? What the kitten?

    What is all this nonsense about replacing confusion with bleed/poison/burning?

    Just tweak confusion if necessary, and traits/skills that apply it...

    Never dodge while dazed (EM handicap) | My ears, how are you! | Kourna Jackrabbit for default Springer

  • Genesis.5169Genesis.5169 Member ✭✭✭

    LOLNO
    Did you make this thread to enrage a bunch of mesmers?

    Yeah lets get rid of the few defining feature that the mesmer has left because i can't be kitten to cleanse the condition and to take no action, ill give up confuse if power classes give up every single cc they have in there tool box.

    Get safe spaces out of spvp, demand real post game stats!
    Gw2 already the easiest MMO on the market if you believe content is too hard its time for some self reflection.
    Stop asking to nerf classes if you PvE exclusively it makes no sense.

  • Morwath.9817Morwath.9817 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Genesis.5169 said:
    LOLNO
    Did you make this thread to enrage a bunch of mesmers?

    Yeah lets get rid of the few defining feature that the mesmer has left because i can't be kitten to cleanse the condition and to take no action, ill give up confuse if power classes give up every single cc they have in there tool box.

    Ooo? Confusion isn't Mesmer defining feature, also Quaggan would remind you that we aren't talking about Mesmer and sources of confusion Mesmer has, but about Mirage and how new sources of confusion stack with old Mesmer sources of confusion resulting in too much confusion around. Do you tell Quaggan to take no action during 4 seconds of confusion, while confusion, bleed, torment and burning all are ticking on him and you're still attacking Quaggan meanwhile applying more confusion?

    Quaggan got confused by your post.

  • Genesis.5169Genesis.5169 Member ✭✭✭

    @Morwath.9817 said:

    @Genesis.5169 said:
    LOLNO
    Did you make this thread to enrage a bunch of mesmers?

    Yeah lets get rid of the few defining feature that the mesmer has left because i can't be kitten to cleanse the condition and to take no action, ill give up confuse if power classes give up every single cc they have in there tool box.

    Ooo? Confusion isn't Mesmer defining feature, also Quaggan would remind you that we aren't talking about Mesmer and sources of confusion Mesmer has, but about Mirage and how new sources of confusion stack with old Mesmer sources of confusion resulting in too much confusion around. Do you tell Quaggan to take no action during 4 seconds of confusion, while confusion, bleed, torment and burning all are ticking on him and you're still attacking Quaggan meanwhile applying more confusion?

    Quaggan got confused by your post.

    Yes, if me and my clones just attack you for 4 seconds most classes except theives only loses roughly 20% of there hp less then a heal, Yes i'm tell you to take no action, No i'm not tell your to just afk and stand in place like an moron although your free to do that if you like, all you need to do is move around take no action or heal our other sources of condition does not hurt like our confuse does, consider it a trade.

    Or you could cleanse it.

    Get safe spaces out of spvp, demand real post game stats!
    Gw2 already the easiest MMO on the market if you believe content is too hard its time for some self reflection.
    Stop asking to nerf classes if you PvE exclusively it makes no sense.

  • Morwath.9817Morwath.9817 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Genesis.5169 said:

    @Morwath.9817 said:

    @Genesis.5169 said:
    LOLNO
    Did you make this thread to enrage a bunch of mesmers?

    Yeah lets get rid of the few defining feature that the mesmer has left because i can't be kitten to cleanse the condition and to take no action, ill give up confuse if power classes give up every single cc they have in there tool box.

    Ooo? Confusion isn't Mesmer defining feature, also Quaggan would remind you that we aren't talking about Mesmer and sources of confusion Mesmer has, but about Mirage and how new sources of confusion stack with old Mesmer sources of confusion resulting in too much confusion around. Do you tell Quaggan to take no action during 4 seconds of confusion, while confusion, bleed, torment and burning all are ticking on him and you're still attacking Quaggan meanwhile applying more confusion?

    Quaggan got confused by your post.

    Yes, if me and my clones just attack you for 4 seconds most classes except theives only loses roughly 20% of there hp less then a heal, Yes i'm tell you to take no action, No i'm not tell your to just afk and stand in place like an moron although your free to do that if you like, all you need to do is move around take no action or heal our other sources of condition does not hurt like our confuse does, consider it a trade.

    Or you could cleanse it.

    Ooo, but confusion is ticking even when Quaggan does nothing and whenever he tries to cleanse confusion with cleanse than isn't full cleanse Quaggan gets punished by cleansing e.g. bleed and torment instead of confusion and he takes damage from confusion, fooo!

  • Genesis.5169Genesis.5169 Member ✭✭✭

    @Morwath.9817 said:

    @Genesis.5169 said:

    @Morwath.9817 said:

    @Genesis.5169 said:
    LOLNO
    Did you make this thread to enrage a bunch of mesmers?

    Yeah lets get rid of the few defining feature that the mesmer has left because i can't be kitten to cleanse the condition and to take no action, ill give up confuse if power classes give up every single cc they have in there tool box.

    Ooo? Confusion isn't Mesmer defining feature, also Quaggan would remind you that we aren't talking about Mesmer and sources of confusion Mesmer has, but about Mirage and how new sources of confusion stack with old Mesmer sources of confusion resulting in too much confusion around. Do you tell Quaggan to take no action during 4 seconds of confusion, while confusion, bleed, torment and burning all are ticking on him and you're still attacking Quaggan meanwhile applying more confusion?

    Quaggan got confused by your post.

    Yes, if me and my clones just attack you for 4 seconds most classes except theives only loses roughly 20% of there hp less then a heal, Yes i'm tell you to take no action, No i'm not tell your to just afk and stand in place like an moron although your free to do that if you like, all you need to do is move around take no action or heal our other sources of condition does not hurt like our confuse does, consider it a trade.

    Or you could cleanse it.

    Ooo, but confusion is ticking even when Quaggan does nothing and whenever he tries to cleanse confusion with cleanse than isn't full cleanse Quaggan gets punished by cleansing e.g. bleed and torment instead of confusion and he takes damage from confusion, fooo!

    Man i had alot of typos in my post geez i gotta fixed tht.
    You and i know confusion ticks do not hurt lol...lets not talk about conidition ticks and its whooping 136 damage in pvp.

    Get safe spaces out of spvp, demand real post game stats!
    Gw2 already the easiest MMO on the market if you believe content is too hard its time for some self reflection.
    Stop asking to nerf classes if you PvE exclusively it makes no sense.

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Morwath.9817 said:

    @zealex.9410 said:
    How about Anet reverts confusion and torment to their pre hot functionality. U know when they were absolutely fine.

    Quaggan is afraid it could affect PvE too much.

    Ik thats why i believe not allowing functionality splits is a silly choice.

  • shinta.8906shinta.8906 Member ✭✭✭

    what if they'd revert confusion to deal only damage on skill use instead of half of the possible damage all the time. just change it back as it was. ikr. as if.

  • K THEN.5162K THEN.5162 Member ✭✭✭

    They already do cause bleeding! Fighting them gives my brain severe aneurysms

    WHAT?!? Did you expect something special to be written here

  • Felipe.1807Felipe.1807 Member ✭✭✭

    @Genesis.5169 said:

    @Morwath.9817 said:

    @Genesis.5169 said:

    @Morwath.9817 said:

    @Genesis.5169 said:
    LOLNO
    Did you make this thread to enrage a bunch of mesmers?

    Yeah lets get rid of the few defining feature that the mesmer has left because i can't be kitten to cleanse the condition and to take no action, ill give up confuse if power classes give up every single cc they have in there tool box.

    Ooo? Confusion isn't Mesmer defining feature, also Quaggan would remind you that we aren't talking about Mesmer and sources of confusion Mesmer has, but about Mirage and how new sources of confusion stack with old Mesmer sources of confusion resulting in too much confusion around. Do you tell Quaggan to take no action during 4 seconds of confusion, while confusion, bleed, torment and burning all are ticking on him and you're still attacking Quaggan meanwhile applying more confusion?

    Quaggan got confused by your post.

    Yes, if me and my clones just attack you for 4 seconds most classes except theives only loses roughly 20% of there hp less then a heal, Yes i'm tell you to take no action, No i'm not tell your to just afk and stand in place like an moron although your free to do that if you like, all you need to do is move around take no action or heal our other sources of condition does not hurt like our confuse does, consider it a trade.

    Or you could cleanse it.

    Ooo, but confusion is ticking even when Quaggan does nothing and whenever he tries to cleanse confusion with cleanse than isn't full cleanse Quaggan gets punished by cleansing e.g. bleed and torment instead of confusion and he takes damage from confusion, fooo!

    Man i had alot of typos in my post geez i gotta fixed tht.
    You and i know confusion ticks do not hurt lol...lets not talk about conidition ticks and its whooping 136 damage in pvp.

    I guarantee to you that 20~30 stacks of confusion(which is normal for Mirage) dont hit for only "whooping 136 damage in pvp."

  • Swagg.9236Swagg.9236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Genesis.5169 said:

    Yes, if me and my clones just attack you for 4 seconds most classes except theives only loses roughly 20% of there hp less then a heal,

    I don't know where you get that number especially since you exclude eles (same health pool as thief) and disregard how arbitrarily huge the base HP differences are between HP tiers.

    @Genesis.5169 said:

    Yes i'm tell you to take no action, No i'm not tell your to just afk and stand in place like an moron although your free to do that if you like, all you need to do is move around take no action or heal our other sources of condition does not hurt like our confuse does, consider it a trade.

    There is no trade in a scenario in which one player shouldn't/can't act while the other one gets to unload a button-mash barrage of tab-targeted auto-pursuit abilities that are all instant or near-instant. I can run vipers as well and deal high direct damage while conditions continue to tick.

    GW1 Blackout was a trade. GW2 mirage burst requires no timing or positioning investment on part of the mirage. They stealth and evade while bursting from range, and then they evade while backing off to safety.

    @Genesis.5169 said:

    Or you could cleanse it.

    Meta mirage dumps around 5 unique conditions on a target with the initial burst. The only skill that would allow someone to consistently cleanse that many, easily-applied, low CD condis is probably Ether Renewal. Also, there's no guarantee that I'm going to cleanse the 20+ confusion stacks when there are 4 other condis on my bar and I only have a 3-condi cleanse.

  • Rodzynald.5897Rodzynald.5897 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 22, 2017

    I wish that mirages were more resilient to damage, that their invulnerabilities and dodges gave them like... 80% damage reduction. Let them retain the mobility, but don't let them feel untouchable.
    Well that should apply to any invulnerability or damage immunities to prevent silly "5% hp left a passive/active saves my bum, I am so good" situations. PvP should be more punishing with mistakes and don't give anyone any feeling of safety even behind damage mitigation walls.

    Casual friendly and quality pvp - these two do not work well together.

  • @shinta.8906 said:
    what if they'd revert confusion to deal only damage on skill use instead of half of the possible damage all the time. just change it back as it was. ikr. as if.

    No becasue then it would require people to try instead of waiting for passive damage to do the work. The only passive ticks should be Bleed and burn. Torment only if moving, Confusion only if using a skill. Poison reduces heal potential by x % per stack.

  • MyPuppy.8970MyPuppy.8970 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Taltevus.3289 said:

    @shinta.8906 said:
    what if they'd revert confusion to deal only damage on skill use instead of half of the possible damage all the time. just change it back as it was. ikr. as if.

    No becasue then it would require people to try instead of waiting for passive damage to do the work. The only passive ticks should be Bleed and burn. Torment only if moving, Confusion only if using a skill. Poison reduces heal potential by x % per stack.

    I'd be ok with poison giving a slow health degen additionnaly though. Like -0.5% max health/sec.

  • Crab Fear.1624Crab Fear.1624 Member ✭✭✭✭

    When I play against a mirage..these lyrics come to mind:

    There must be some kind of way outta here
    Said the joker to the thief
    There's too much confusion
    I can't get no relief

  • Morwath.9817Morwath.9817 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Crab Fear.1624 said:
    When I play against a mirage..these lyrics come to mind:

    There must be some kind of way outta here
    Said the joker to the thief
    There's too much confusion
    I can't get no relief

    Ooo, and meanwhile Mirage is singin'

    You got the touch
    You got the power

    After all is said and done
    You've never walked, you've never run,
    You're a winner

    (...)

  • BlaqueFyre.5678BlaqueFyre.5678 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 26, 2017

    Say it with me now, “Interesting” gameplay.....
    https://imgur.com/a/P2Yz6

    Ps. Anet fix your Mobile Version your Image URL function still doesn’t Work on Mobile.

  • Razor.6392Razor.6392 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @BlaqueFyre.5678 said:
    Say it with me now, “Interesting” gameplay.....
    https://imgur.com/a/P2Yz6

    Ps. Anet fix your Mobile Version your Image URL function still doesn’t Work on Mobile.

    Genesis advice: Wait it out. Don't move otherwise torment will hurt a lot. There are no cleanses on rev so just wait it out man! Easy! Mirage not OP! (PLZ DONT NERF MY FREELO EVEN THO IM NOT EVEN PLAT LOL)

    Never said I'm the best, but I believe I'm better than you.

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Razor.6392 said:

    @BlaqueFyre.5678 said:
    Say it with me now, “Interesting” gameplay.....
    https://imgur.com/a/P2Yz6

    Ps. Anet fix your Mobile Version your Image URL function still doesn’t Work on Mobile.

    Genesis advice: Wait it out. Don't move otherwise torment will hurt a lot. There are no cleanses on rev so just wait it out man! Easy! Mirage not OP! (PLZ DONT NERF MY FREELO EVEN THO IM NOT EVEN PLAT LOL)

    Because not moving against a class that can burst 30 stacks of confusion and 10 torment is a good idea.

    8)

  • What if mirage wasn't the only class that can contest 1 node while +1ing the other, that can fix matchups by rotating teammates and can 1v1 almost everything? Then maybe we could have a balanced game one day.

  • witcher.3197witcher.3197 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 26, 2017

    @Blackjack.5621 said:
    What if mirage wasn't the only class that can contest 1 node while +1ing the other, that can fix matchups by rotating teammates and can 1v1 almost everything? Then maybe we could have a balanced game one day.

    I think what truly broke things was the sword leap. Giving thief-like mobility to the class that already had portal was a mistake, and the same skill also comes with a spammable interrupt. Leap range on sword should be cut in half and their confusion application lowered.

    Stunbreak on dodge is kinda stupid as well.

  • BlaqueFyre.5678BlaqueFyre.5678 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @witcher.3197 said:

    @Blackjack.5621 said:
    What if mirage wasn't the only class that can contest 1 node while +1ing the other, that can fix matchups by rotating teammates and can 1v1 almost everything? Then maybe we could have a balanced game one day.

    I think what truly broke things was the sword leap. Giving thief-like mobility to the class that already had portal was a mistake, and the same skill also comes with a spammable interrupt. Leap range on sword should be cut in half and their confusion application lowered.

    Stunbreak on dodge is kinda stupid as well.

    Even without the Trait they can evade while Stunned or Channeling or Attacking. Don’t forget Big Karl has got a term for that “Interesting”Gameplay

  • @Morwath.9817 said:

    @Crab Fear.1624 said:
    When I play against a mirage..these lyrics come to mind:

    There must be some kind of way outta here
    Said the joker to the thief
    There's too much confusion
    I can't get no relief

    Ooo, and meanwhile Mirage is singin'

    You got the touch
    You got the power

    After all is said and done
    You've never walked, you've never run,
    You're a winner

    (...)

    ONE SHALL STAND ONE SHALL FALL!

  • Just remove a little confusion application, reduce some duration, add ICD for EM and mirage will be in line.

    Cross

  • Crab Fear.1624Crab Fear.1624 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Another dag nabbin mirage thread!!!!

  • tinyreborn.1938tinyreborn.1938 Member ✭✭✭

    Forum nolife-troll, cant you stop necro'ing threads?

  • Zawn.9647Zawn.9647 Member ✭✭✭

    ...was never created? OH THE DREAM :love:

  • Burnfall.9573Burnfall.9573 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 9, 2018

    "A master of illusion, misdirection, and control, the Mesmer subverts the damage-dealing capabilities of others, manipulating their perceptions to achieve personal goals"

    https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Mesmer

    Op, it is a bad idea; no ty

    (a look into memser role)
    \

    (Interesting info on mesmer)
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Talk:Mesmer

  • Avigrus.2871Avigrus.2871 Member ✭✭✭

    @NeXeD.3042 said:

    @Morwath.9817 said:

    @Crab Fear.1624 said:
    When I play against a mirage..these lyrics come to mind:

    There must be some kind of way outta here
    Said the joker to the thief
    There's too much confusion
    I can't get no relief

    Ooo, and meanwhile Mirage is singin'

    You got the touch
    You got the power

    After all is said and done
    You've never walked, you've never run,
    You're a winner

    (...)

    ONE SHALL STAND ONE SHALL FALL!

    Arise Rodimus Prime

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