New Matchmaker on Unranked — Guild Wars 2 Forums

New Matchmaker on Unranked

edited January 4, 2018 in PVP

Hey folks,

We have some matchmaking enhancements we're going to turn on in unranked today around 3PM PST. This is different than the previous experiment where we changed the max skill rating range. We don't expect any changes to queue times with these enhancements and the vast majority of players actually shouldn't notice much difference.

We identified some cases where the matchmaker was not correctly balancing teams by skill rating. This was rare, less than 5% of matches. But this change drastically reduces this occurrence. This doesn't mean that you will not see players of different tiers in your match. Our change just ensures that both teams have a very similar average skill rating.

If everything goes well, we'll likely turn this on ranked at the start of next season.

Ben Phongluangtham
Game Designer
Reddit: ANET_BenP
Twitch: AnetBenP

Tagged:
<13

Comments

  • Ithilwen.1529Ithilwen.1529 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Nice to see you actively experimenting. I look forward to trying.

    Mesmerizing Girl

  • Foretelling the future:
    People would still hate matchmaking because the core reason of it being bad wasn't fixed.

    Thief
    The Ripper: Bleeding has been adjusted from 3 stacks for 7 seconds to 4 stacks for 10 seconds.

  • Milan.9035Milan.9035 Member ✭✭✭

    Does the match maker take into account the class thats picked? Because picking a renegade, deadeye or weaver vs a mirage scourge or firebrand has much more effect on the match than any rating.

    Ita nice that you trying this but i dont see it helping at all. Population is too low in my mind for good match making, maybe i am wrong.

  • I had few of those 5% matches where obviously the skills are different, result in 500-50 or so. But more often than not you see similarly skilled players with one or two bad apples that resulted in snowballs and defeat teams at 200 or 300. Such is the nature of conquest, and it hard to expect much in MMR...

    [RED] Crimson Sunspears...your small family guild since 2015.

  • Have you guys considered binning the matchmaking? The complexity it adds to the system on the backend, versus the universal hate of the system on players' end... what is the benefit over random matchups again?

    with perhaps >50% of the pvp player base on scourge, yes a random matchup would highlight the balance problem, but then it's also long past time to introduce a cap on classes per team, and nuke the class switching during warmup. Even team fortress in ~1998 had server console variables to restrict e.g. 2 snipers per team, 4 soldiers per team, and so on.

  • This is live as of about 10 minutes ago.

    Ben Phongluangtham
    Game Designer
    Reddit: ANET_BenP
    Twitch: AnetBenP

  • @NICENIKESHOE.7128 said:
    I had few of those 5% matches where obviously the skills are different, result in 500-50 or so. But more often than not you see similarly skilled players with one or two bad apples that resulted in snowballs and defeat teams at 200 or 300. Such is the nature of conquest, and it hard to expect much in MMR...

    Yeah, matchmaking on its own will never stop matches from snowballing. Snowballing is the result of a lot of different factors.

    Ben Phongluangtham
    Game Designer
    Reddit: ANET_BenP
    Twitch: AnetBenP

  • @Milan.9035 said:
    Does the match maker take into account the class thats picked? Because picking a renegade, deadeye or weaver vs a mirage scourge or firebrand has much more effect on the match than any rating.

    Ita nice that you trying this but i dont see it helping at all. Population is too low in my mind for good match making, maybe i am wrong.

    The matchmaker only takes classes into account in that it will sacrifice average skill rating to ensure classes aren't stacked on one team. For example, you should never see 2 scourges on red team and 0 scourges on the other. We don't do anything like modify skill rating based on which class you are.

    Ben Phongluangtham
    Game Designer
    Reddit: ANET_BenP
    Twitch: AnetBenP

  • sephiroth.4217sephiroth.4217 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 21, 2017

    @Rufo.3716 said:

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

    @Milan.9035 said:
    Does the match maker take into account the class thats picked? Because picking a renegade, deadeye or weaver vs a mirage scourge or firebrand has much more effect on the match than any rating.

    Ita nice that you trying this but i dont see it helping at all. Population is too low in my mind for good match making, maybe i am wrong.

    The matchmaker only takes classes into account in that it will sacrifice average skill rating to ensure classes aren't stacked on one team. For example, you should never see 2 scourges on red team and 0 scourges on the other. We don't do anything like modify skill rating based on which class you are.

    So why do I continually see games where one team has two of one class and the other has 2 of another?

    You mean those games where you have 2 warriors, 2 thieves and a mes and you're against 2 scourges, 2 firebrands and a druid?

    They happen quite a bit, other day I had this comp too, lucky I was on the right side :trollface:

    Not to brag, but I put together a puzzle in 4 days and the box said 2-4 years.
    CLICK HERE FOR A FREE SCREEN CLEANING SERVICE
    Please allow team queue with rewards again at our own discretion - Playing till last friend leaves.

  • @Rufo.3716 said:

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

    @Milan.9035 said:
    Does the match maker take into account the class thats picked? Because picking a renegade, deadeye or weaver vs a mirage scourge or firebrand has much more effect on the match than any rating.

    Ita nice that you trying this but i dont see it helping at all. Population is too low in my mind for good match making, maybe i am wrong.

    The matchmaker only takes classes into account in that it will sacrifice average skill rating to ensure classes aren't stacked on one team. For example, you should never see 2 scourges on red team and 0 scourges on the other. We don't do anything like modify skill rating based on which class you are.

    So why do I continually see games where one team has two of one class and the other has 2 of another?

    This is a feature of our enhancements. The old matchmaker tried to do this to some degree, but we're now doing this in a much more strict way. Though, I shouldn't have said "never" in my last post. If 2 scourges queue together, there is still a chance they go up against a team with no scourges.

    Ben Phongluangtham
    Game Designer
    Reddit: ANET_BenP
    Twitch: AnetBenP

  • Bossun.2046Bossun.2046 Member ✭✭✭

    Remember to have the Matchmaker favor me and I'll have Santa drop $5 into your Christmas sock. :)

    sugoi monogatari oniichan

  • jihm.2315jihm.2315 Member ✭✭✭

    skill rating doesnt matter i get my face face melted by 1k achi scourges

  • edited December 21, 2017

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

    @Milan.9035 said:
    Does the match maker take into account the class thats picked? Because picking a renegade, deadeye or weaver vs a mirage scourge or firebrand has much more effect on the match than any rating.

    Ita nice that you trying this but i dont see it helping at all. Population is too low in my mind for good match making, maybe i am wrong.

    The matchmaker only takes classes into account in that it will sacrifice average skill rating to ensure classes aren't stacked on one team. For example, you should never see 2 scourges on red team and 0 scourges on the other. We don't do anything like modify skill rating based on which class you are.

    Homie, that's adorable. Literally just happened in primetime.

  • Crinn.7864Crinn.7864 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Pinkunicorn of Dethecus.3217 said:

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

    @Milan.9035 said:
    Does the match maker take into account the class thats picked? Because picking a renegade, deadeye or weaver vs a mirage scourge or firebrand has much more effect on the match than any rating.

    Ita nice that you trying this but i dont see it helping at all. Population is too low in my mind for good match making, maybe i am wrong.

    The matchmaker only takes classes into account in that it will sacrifice average skill rating to ensure classes aren't stacked on one team. For example, you should never see 2 scourges on red team and 0 scourges on the other. We don't do anything like modify skill rating based on which class you are.

    Homie, that's adorable. Literally just happened in primetime.

    Matchmaker doesn't stop people from swapping after loading in.

    Sanity is for the weak minded
    YouTube

  • @Pinkunicorn of Dethecus.3217 said:

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

    @Milan.9035 said:
    Does the match maker take into account the class thats picked? Because picking a renegade, deadeye or weaver vs a mirage scourge or firebrand has much more effect on the match than any rating.

    Ita nice that you trying this but i dont see it helping at all. Population is too low in my mind for good match making, maybe i am wrong.

    The matchmaker only takes classes into account in that it will sacrifice average skill rating to ensure classes aren't stacked on one team. For example, you should never see 2 scourges on red team and 0 scourges on the other. We don't do anything like modify skill rating based on which class you are.

    Homie, that's adorable. Literally just happened in primetime.

    If this was on unranked, we'll take a look at the match and see what happened. People could have swapped, or that part of the new matchmaker may not be working as expected.

    Ben Phongluangtham
    Game Designer
    Reddit: ANET_BenP
    Twitch: AnetBenP

  • Ithilwen.1529Ithilwen.1529 Member ✭✭✭✭

    If anything, matches have been worse for me. I honestly didn't think that was likely...

    Mesmerizing Girl

  • @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

    @Pinkunicorn of Dethecus.3217 said:

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

    @Milan.9035 said:
    Does the match maker take into account the class thats picked? Because picking a renegade, deadeye or weaver vs a mirage scourge or firebrand has much more effect on the match than any rating.

    Ita nice that you trying this but i dont see it helping at all. Population is too low in my mind for good match making, maybe i am wrong.

    The matchmaker only takes classes into account in that it will sacrifice average skill rating to ensure classes aren't stacked on one team. For example, you should never see 2 scourges on red team and 0 scourges on the other. We don't do anything like modify skill rating based on which class you are.

    Homie, that's adorable. Literally just happened in primetime.

    If this was on unranked, we'll take a look at the match and see what happened. People could have swapped, or that part of the new matchmaker may not be working as expected.

    the picture does clearly show 'Ranked Arena' and 'League' ;)

  • @Dahkeus.8243 said:

    @dragonkain.3984 said:
    Foretelling the future:
    People would still hate matchmaking because the core reason of it being bad wasn't fixed.

    More like: People will still hate matchmaking because human psychology leads people to believe that they win games because they are good at the game and lose them because they got matched with bad teammates.

    More like: You're not even aware of a main reason why humans hate games where team drags them down and how to fix it that problem.

    Hint for clueless you - Read my old posts.

    Thief
    The Ripper: Bleeding has been adjusted from 3 stacks for 7 seconds to 4 stacks for 10 seconds.

  • @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:
    If everything goes well, we'll likely turn this on ranked at the start of next season.

    Any algorithm you make it will always be problems with it, for the only reason that a good algorithm needs a lot of available choices or in our case players .the PVP community isn't that big, so before doing anything merge PVP for EU and NA and CHINA the PVP gonna be much greater and tournaments a lot more intense no need to ESL after that . and just the simplest algorithm for match making will be fine then. hope i can see this one day in a separated client .lets take GW2 PVP to the next LVL.

    S A R À B

  • ReaverKane.7598ReaverKane.7598 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Pinkunicorn of Dethecus.3217 said:

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

    @Pinkunicorn of Dethecus.3217 said:

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

    @Milan.9035 said:
    Does the match maker take into account the class thats picked? Because picking a renegade, deadeye or weaver vs a mirage scourge or firebrand has much more effect on the match than any rating.

    Ita nice that you trying this but i dont see it helping at all. Population is too low in my mind for good match making, maybe i am wrong.

    The matchmaker only takes classes into account in that it will sacrifice average skill rating to ensure classes aren't stacked on one team. For example, you should never see 2 scourges on red team and 0 scourges on the other. We don't do anything like modify skill rating based on which class you are.

    Homie, that's adorable. Literally just happened in primetime.

    If this was on unranked, we'll take a look at the match and see what happened. People could have swapped, or that part of the new matchmaker may not be working as expected.

    the picture does clearly show 'Ranked Arena' and 'League' ;)

    Then, maybe you should have read on the original post that those changes happened in UNRANKED.

  • @ReaverKane.7598 said:
    Then, maybe you should have read on the original post that those changes happened in UNRANKED.

    The point is probably that Ranked is to remain insufferable dogbarf while they arbitrarily wait to fix things during offseason (but ofc if you have an expansion to release in the middle of a season, go for it!). The bit about 2 scourges teaming up and bypassing the class balance handicap is rather funny, so now that bit of knowledge is in the wild until Feb or March or whenever the next season begins, enjoy!

  • edited December 21, 2017

    @Yukio blaster.9082 said:

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:
    If everything goes well, we'll likely turn this on ranked at the start of next season.

    Any algorithm you make it will always be problems with it, for the only reason that a good algorithm needs a lot of available choices or in our case players .the PVP community isn't that big, so before doing anything merge PVP for EU and NA and CHINA the PVP gonna be much greater and tournaments a lot more intense no need to ESL after that . and just the simplest algorithm for match making will be fine then. hope i can see this one day in a separated client .lets take GW2 PVP to the next LVL.

    You're completely delusional if you think that people will go for that. Playing on NA, my ping is 24. Eu, 250, China would be even higher (to say nothing of their separate client made with Chinese laws in mind). There's no way on earth I would choose to play with ping that high all the time.

    @ReaverKane.7598 said:
    Then, maybe you should have read on the original post that those changes happened in UNRANKED.

    And maybe you'll notice that the original quote asked about general matchmaking, which I clearly provided evidence to the contrary of his statement in real time. But hey, reading comprehension isn't for everyone, champ.

  • @Pinkunicorn of Dethecus.3217 said:

    You're completely delusional if you think that people will go for that. Playing on NA, my ping is 24. Eu, 250, China would be even higher (to say nothing of their separate client made with Chinese laws in mind). There's no way on earth I would choose to play with ping that high all the time.

    I agree whit your point, but still it's not a game breaker, especially between NA and EU servers EU players can still play on NA servers just fine,CHINA no idea. and even if the servers merging isn't an option then the client with only PVP is still a good idea and in the same time keeping the normal GW2 client with the PVP of-course.
    the low storage demand and with the good marketing this would take GW PVP to the next LVL more players would come to play PVP .

    S A R À B

  • Delweyn.1309Delweyn.1309 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 21, 2017

    With this new system i just can't win a single match. As a plat player previous season, I chained 8 matches today (at the moment I write this) of loses. Unbelivable !

    And twice we were 2 thiefs in my teams an none in enemy team.

    I finally got my victory in unranked at my 9th match.

    https://hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=185589gw003.jpg

  • edited December 21, 2017

    @Delweyn.1309 said:
    With this new system i just can't win a single match. As a plat player previous season, I chained 8 matches today (at the moment I write this) of loses. Unbelivable !

    And twice we were 2 thiefs in my teams an none in enemy team.

    I finally got my victory in unranked at my 9th match.

    https://hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=185589gw003.jpg

    Did the two thieves queue up together?

    Ben Phongluangtham
    Game Designer
    Reddit: ANET_BenP
    Twitch: AnetBenP

  • edited December 21, 2017

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

    @Delweyn.1309 said:
    With this new system i just can't win a single match. As a plat player previous season, I chained 8 matches today (at the moment I write this) of loses. Unbelivable !

    And twice we were 2 thiefs in my teams an none in enemy team.

    I finally got my victory in unranked at my 9th match.

    https://hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=185589gw003.jpg

    Did the two thieves queue up together?

    We found the match, they weren't queued together. We found a bug with the new matchmaking. When the bug occurred, it was using the old version of the matchmaker, so at worst, it's the same as it was before. Good news is that we've found this particular bug. There was a "return" where there should have been a "continue." Hopefully, we can get a fix out today!

    Thanks for your feedback!

    Ben Phongluangtham
    Game Designer
    Reddit: ANET_BenP
    Twitch: AnetBenP

  • Looks like we're probably not going to get the fix to the matchmaker today after all. Matchmaking on unranked will continue to be the old matchmaker until further notice.

    Ben Phongluangtham
    Game Designer
    Reddit: ANET_BenP
    Twitch: AnetBenP

  • Can i have a decent answer why i still play in the same team with people that i blocked !!!!????!!!! this just ruining my day. the blocking should have effect on the match making at least the blocked or reported one for insult or manipulation or what ever should not play in the same team with the one that reported him. and reports seams to do nothing at all is the report system not working??!! this is just frustrating .

    S A R À B

  • Morwath.9817Morwath.9817 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Yukio blaster.9082 said:

    Can i have a decent answer why i still play in the same team with people that i blocked !!!!????!!!! this just ruining my day. the blocking should have effect on the match making at least the blocked or reported one for insult or manipulation or what ever should not play in the same team with the one that reported him. and reports seams to do nothing at all is the report system not working??!! this is just frustrating .

    Fooo, that would be perfect for match manipulating...

  • Delweyn.1309Delweyn.1309 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 22, 2017

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

    @Delweyn.1309 said:
    With this new system i just can't win a single match. As a plat player previous season, I chained 8 matches today (at the moment I write this) of loses. Unbelivable !

    And twice we were 2 thiefs in my teams an none in enemy team.

    I finally got my victory in unranked at my 9th match.

    https://hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=185589gw003.jpg

    Did the two thieves queue up together?

    I was one of the thieves each time. And we appeared together in the team each time from the start yes.

    Edit : ok ty for your efforts.

  • I played random arenas in gw1 for years, one thing I wont complain about is random teams. Sometimes you just land on a bad team.

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 Have you talked about forbiding teams in ranked to stack classes? Stoping them from joining the match so long as they dont or stoping the mtch it self.

  • Marxx.5021Marxx.5021 Member ✭✭✭

    Thank you for working on matchmaker improvements!

  • Ario.8964Ario.8964 Member ✭✭✭

    Amidst all the salt over people not getting a magic fix that allows them to get carried in their matches: Thank for you for actively searching out and testing improvements to the systems in this game. It's a hard and demanding process but we few who can look past some less than ideal matches appreciate what you're trying to do.

    Insert impressive information about me that surprises you and earns respect.

  • Ok, the new matchmaker is on again in unranked. Results so far are looking good, but still a small sample size. We'll keep an eye on things throughout the day.

    Ben Phongluangtham
    Game Designer
    Reddit: ANET_BenP
    Twitch: AnetBenP

  • To be honest I dont expect much from a matchmaker unless its able to identify support/dps/whatever else and trying to even out the types of characters it can identify per team like making sure it has one support per team.

    Random teams really needs emphasis.

  • Toron.4856Toron.4856 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 22, 2017

    21 games 18 wins so far in unranked. your new mmr is working for me, thx :)

    https://imgur.com/a/33mza

    also, in the past 15 games enemies didnt score 300 points a single time lol

<13
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