Elementalist require a full condi clear utility/trait

This class desperately needs something to manage condi bursts, I am not talking about condi application, I am talking about situations where you find yourself with 8+ conditions on you instantly.

Currently this class has neither resistance or an utility that helps to clear a condi burst, all an ele can do atm is to fire several utilities /skill to clear the condi burst and I don't see why this should be considered fare when all other professions have the tools to deal with condi burst or have traits that reduce condi dmg ( scrapper ).

Core ele/weaver are too weak to condis and tempest hangs by a thread thx to water overload and even here is an uphill battle. I am not asking for condi immunity , I am only asking for a fare treatment and I have few suggestions:

1) "Ether renewal" : 1/2s cast, clears 6 condis2) "Cleansing fire" : clears 3 condis and grants 4s resistance CD 50s3) "Signet of water" : clear 12 condis as active - passive increase concentration by 108

Tbh any class has (more or less) a bunch of useless junk.They all should be reworked, and maybe I am alone, but I believe an action combat game like GW2 shouldn't have cooldowns above 25, preferably close to 20 or in very very rare cases a bit longer.But it seems I am alone with this.

@Warrost.4895 said:Tbh any class has (more or less) a bunch of useless junk.They all should be reworked, and maybe I am alone, but I believe an action combat game like GW2 shouldn't have cooldowns above 25, preferably close to 20 or in very very rare cases a bit longer.But it seems I am alone with this.

Nope, you're not. I think the CD questions is the kind that brings an awkward silence in a conversaion.

Once upon a time, there was GW1 with fights that could possibly drag a bit in time, and a 30s CD for a very powerful skill wasn't so surprising as in "you'll only be able to use it once in the fight". GW2 happened to bring a... I'm not even going to say "fast paced" because it's more of a "insta kill" combat system. As in "if the fight drags beyond 5 seconds, it's boring/I'll die/whatever". So those skills with more than 15s CD feel like they've got an insanely long CD. They're supposed to be "turning tides", but they're actually mostly underwhelming. People therefore don't bother with them.

That said, I feel like lowering the CD would make them really potent, on another hand, so... Maybe the only solution is to create new skill sets from scratch, and dismiss the really useless ones. But that's not a thing we're gonna see.

Yup, condi burst has always been a problem. In anet's mind condi removal comes from allies in the same way condi application comes from all enemies. Our condi removal as a weaver is fine in 1v1 situations tbh, but its the constant reapplication from multiple sources where its becomes inbalanced.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vFAQJAsYnk4CNOgdOA+4CM5iFDALIAkJ7h3n6UdsmoKMEaCA-jJxHABAcCAqvMgyPAgd2fAA

A build such as this has pretty good condi removal potential with unravel hexes actually removing 3 condis every time its used (assuming it works properly).

The only thing I would change is for sword 2 in water to pulse regen , giving 5 condi clears instead of 1. Its a simple fix that requires sword to be used and is not going to create an imbalance with traits and condi removal.

Ele has a pretty good toolset for condi removal:

• Nearly spammable cantrip heal
• Earth trait for Diamond skin
• Water trait to remove condition when grating regeneration boon
• New Weaver trait to shed conditions on super-speed
• Fire trait to auto-casts cleansing fire cantrip
• Water trait to remove burning and cripple on dodge roll
• Numerous weapon skills that clean conditions
• A small number of utility skills that remove conditions

I'm sure I'm leaving some out, but conditions are the least of my concerns when roaming WvW as an elementalist. Now if you choose to ignore all those choices, then that's a different problem.

@juno.1840 said:Ele has a pretty good toolset for condi removal:

• Nearly spammable cantrip heal
• Earth trait for Diamond skin
• Water trait to remove condition when grating regeneration boon
• New Weaver trait to shed conditions on super-speed
• Fire trait to auto-casts cleansing fire cantrip
• Water trait to remove burning and cripple on dodge roll
• Numerous weapon skills that clean conditions
• A small number of utility skills that remove conditions

I'm sure I'm leaving some out, but conditions are the least of my concerns when roaming WvW as an elementalist. Now if you choose to ignore all those choices, then that's a different problem.

> @FrownyClown.8402 said:

Yup, condi burst has always been a problem. In anet's mind condi removal comes from allies in the same way condi application comes from all enemies. Our condi removal as a weaver is fine in 1v1 situations tbh, but its the constant reapplication from multiple sources where its becomes inbalanced.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vFAQJAsYnk4CNOgdOA+4CM5iFDALIAkJ7h3n6UdsmoKMEaCA-jJxHABAcCAqvMgyPAgd2fAA

A build such as this has pretty good condi removal potential with unravel hexes actually removing 3 condis every time its used (assuming it works properly).

The only thing I would change is for sword 2 in water to pulse regen , giving 5 condi clears instead of 1. Its a simple fix that requires sword to be used and is not going to create an imbalance with traits and condi removal.

@FrownyClown.8402 summarise what I mean with this thread pretty clear.Yes ele is fine as long as we talk single condi removal, it's manageable..not exactly a walk in the park as I'd like but it's manageable at best, what I have problems is condi burst and lack thereafter of something that can deal with it accordingly .

@Arheundel.6451 said:@FrownyClown.8402 summarise what I mean with this thread pretty clear.Yes ele is fine as long as we talk single condi removal, it's manageable..not exactly a walk in the park as I'd like but it's manageable at best, what I have problems is condi burst and lack thereafter of something that can deal with it accordingly .

Understood but the healing cantrip removes 8 conditions -- yeah it can get interrupted but there are tricks for that and it has a very low cooldown (especially when traited).

The other options I listed help keep the pressure off. You can remove quite a few conditions with a combination of the smaller removal options I listed.

In my opinion this is a low priority issue with the elementalist. There are much better fights to fight.

fyi never play revenant. Ele has it good atm.

Most clears on ele can be conter by spam condis or auto attk conds. The best effects ele has for clears often take 2 or 4 condis at once and often they are on longer cd. Things like dimon skin and Ether renewal still are only cleaning one condi per "tick" most of the time the cover condi spam. A lot of classes are like this but a lot of classes have clears AND condi dmg -% or boons that counter condis effects.

This is what ele is realty missing condi dmg -% not clears. Weaver is the perfic places to add this in too having barrier give dmg -% for condis when you have a barrier up.

@Jski.6180 said:Most clears on ele can be conter by spam condis or auto attk conds. The best effects ele has for clears often take 2 or 4 condis at once and often they are on longer cd. Things like dimon skin and Ether renewal still are only cleaning one condi per "tick" most of the time the cover condi spam. A lot of classes are like this but a lot of classes have clears AND condi dmg -% or boons that counter condis effects.

This is what ele is realty missing condi dmg -% not clears. Weaver is the perfic places to add this in too having barrier give dmg -% for condis when you have a barrier up.

Keep in mind that no profession should be immune to conditions. It's like saying a class should be completely immune to direct damage. Condition clears on all professions are countered by condi spam and auto-attack condi. The trick is to use your condi clears when it counts.

Maybe you're asking for a source of Resistance on elementalist? That is different than what the OP requested.

@juno.1840 said:

@Jski.6180 said:Most clears on ele can be conter by spam condis or auto attk conds. The best effects ele has for clears often take 2 or 4 condis at once and often they are on longer cd. Things like dimon skin and Ether renewal still are only cleaning one condi per "tick" most of the time the cover condi spam. A lot of classes are like this but a lot of classes have clears AND condi dmg -% or boons that counter condis effects.

This is what ele is realty missing condi dmg -% not clears. Weaver is the perfic places to add this in too having barrier give dmg -% for condis when you have a barrier up.

No not immune, but something to prevent repeated condi burst.Most classes do have something that makes them, for a small duration, immune to condies though.Ele's really dont have that.Also diamond skin is going to become less effective them more anet pushes the condi meta towards adding power (Griever)

Resistance boon would give you what you're looking for -- short duration condi immunity. It also has counter-play which is boon stripping.

I'd be more open to having a source of resistance than one more condi-clear skill/trait on elementalist.

Honestly, I have never had an issue with conditions on Elementalist. Sure, I always have to keep water traited but the fact remains that we still are able to deal with condies. I think they should spread out condition removal to other portions of ele traitlines like maybe give something more reliable to fire line but we still do have good condition removal management so long as we have water traited.

@ScottBroChill.3254 said:fyi never play revenant. Ele has it good atm.

Technically speaking the rev has less condi clear than ele but...with staff and shield, the rev has 2 blocks ( if traited) , block projectile, UA, freezing projectiles, aoe reveal...quite few tools to try and outpace the enemy and if necessary a rev can use Mallyx which at least gives a fighting chance....you have weapon swap and resistance.

On the other hand ele has...2 dodges and an invulnerability if using invulnerability focus ( which reduces dmg ) and all these small clears 1-2 condis on 10-20s min

@Arheundel.6451 said:On the other hand ele has...2 dodges and an invulnerability if using invulnerability focus ( which reduces dmg ) and all these small clears 1-2 condis on 10-20s min

Arcane Shield, Swirling Winds, Magnetic Aura and other reflects, a 14.5s (traited) heal that removes 8 condi (1 every sec) (10 condis removed when traited coz of a bug, more if runed properly), multiple weapon skills that gives regen/cleanse gives ele more survivability vs condi than any rev build.

Resistance, once corrupted by a Reaper easily, gives Revs chill and 3 more bleed stacks to add the 50 bleed stack you already have. Eles can melee tank Condi Reapers for a long time while Revs even with Mallyx can't even survive in melee range, needs to kite to survive 10+ secs.

@ShadowRain X.8159 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:On the other hand ele has...2 dodges and an invulnerability if using invulnerability focus ( which reduces dmg ) and all these small clears 1-2 condis on 10-20s min

It's not the ability of ele to remove condis respect to rev that is in question, as I have already stated you guys are right and rev has more problems than ele when it comes to condis but what I was talking about is the rev ability respect to ele , to avoid inc dmg alltogether and shadowstep like moves ( UA and shiro teleport ) and I consider the ability to avoid dmg that much superior to simple facetank...eventually you run out of CD on ele and it's easier to CC an ele than a rev.

But you know what's worst?

The fact that you fill up your build with so much defense that you end up doing close to 0 dmg and eventually the condi dpser will win and this is the reason why ele should have a single full condi removal utility at like 50-60s CD that allows ele to drop some of all this bunkering and start doing some actual pressure.

It doesn't make any difference how much tanky you go..if you do no dmg in the end, full burst and 0 sustain or full tank and 0 dmg how can that be considered balanced? acceptable?

@Arheundel.6451 said:The fact that you fill up your build with so much defense that you end up doing close to 0 dmg and eventually the condi dpser will win and this is the reason why ele should have a single full condi removal utility at like 50-60s CD that allows ele to drop some of all this bunkering and start doing some actual pressure.

It doesn't make any difference how much tanky you go..if you do no dmg in the end, full burst and 0 sustain or full tank and 0 dmg how can that be considered balanced? acceptable?it really depends on the build. making sure you have enough clenses and still apply pressure on the enemy is the essence of buildcrafting. In wvw its easier since you have a wide variaty of gear to chose from, in pvp it depends a lot on traits and utilities alone. But i think that a few shouts, a cantrip and selfish combination of clense on regen and aura's granting regen does the trick quite nicely. i was fighting this condition thief and he could not keep conditions on me at all. max was like 3 stacks of bleeding and some poison.

@juno.1840 said:

@Jski.6180 said:Most clears on ele can be conter by spam condis or auto attk conds. The best effects ele has for clears often take 2 or 4 condis at once and often they are on longer cd. Things like dimon skin and Ether renewal still are only cleaning one condi per "tick" most of the time the cover condi spam. A lot of classes are like this but a lot of classes have clears AND condi dmg -% or boons that counter condis effects.

This is what ele is realty missing condi dmg -% not clears. Weaver is the perfic places to add this in too having barrier give dmg -% for condis when you have a barrier up.

Its not about being immune to condis that ele is missing its about having some type of mitigation or -% taken from condis. Right now you cant realty movment speed and ele well if you build that way but other soft cc and dmg condis eat ele alive with no real means of dealing with it. Ele has the lowest hp in the game so its eaiser to kill with condis vs it.

I am suggesting that weaver's barrier becomes that dmg -% by means of taking less dmg when you have barrier up.

Look at classes like reaper having a -20% dmg taken when they are in DS. I want something like that.

Ether renewal is legit.

@Razor.6392 said:Ether renewal is legit.

Really it's not....while you waste 2s channeling a skill to clear 8 condis...the enemy will apply another condi burst on you during those 2s.

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@Razor.6392 said:Ether renewal is legit.

It applies the cleanse 1 by 1 every second for 8 seconds after the 2s cast. Thus during those 2s the enemy just added condi to you that will eventually be cleansed gradually. 20 bleed pre cast and 50 total bleeds post cast doesn't matter. All bleed stacks will be removed. Assuming he doesn't burst more than 8 different types of condi vs you.

Whether you have Ether Renewal, or the utility that you want like Engi's Elixir C, if you can't time it vs the condi burst, you will die. Even engineers with both Elixir C and Med Pack Drop from the toolbelt skill doesn't mean full immunity from burst conditions. You don't need an extra remove all condi skill, you need timing.

TBH I prefer Ether Renewal over Elixir C if given a choice. By the time Elixir C is used to cleanse vs a condi reaper, a new set of the same condis has been applied to you. While with Ether Renewal the 2nd burst has already been applied and you are still pulse cleansing while pulse healing at the same time.

@ShadowRain X.8159 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@Razor.6392 said:Ether renewal is legit.

I disagree,Your ether renewal can be interrupted, it's not a reliable heal and it certainly isn't a reliable condi-cleanse.For the sake of arguement you could pair it with Armor of Earth, but that happens once every 40 seconds and thats hoping your boons aren't stripped, which quite a few classes do and will do with the coming PoF expansion.You could argue that going into water and dodging will remove 2 condies from you ( and if you are using dagger off-hand thats 4 every 30 seconds)but that will happen every 8 seconds.You could make yourself immune to all damage every 50-60 seconds, but that means you don't contribute to the cap in spvp and in WvW the area is large enough for you to be kited.You could slot another cleansing utility, but you are going to give up either a shout-an invuln-a blink- or a stability.All of which for some people are neccessary to not only do damage but survive.

I'm really curious what build you use on your ele where you do damage enough to keep up pressure AND survive repeated condi burst.

We have a lot of trade off's for dealing with condies that a lot of other classes ( besides rev) dont really have to deal with-Few examples.Warriors become condi immune for for 9 seconds with pulsing resistance, on top of removing conditions every time they use a burst skill, which they can do every 8 seconds ( 3 condies every 8 seconds)Guardians can remove conditions not only actively like whirling in light fields or using utilities that transform all condies into boons but passively from blocking attacks or getting to a threshold of conditions ( and the trait they have has a lower ICD) Guardians sacrifice very little for condi removal.Thieves- Depending on if it's running a meta build a thief will passively remove condies from dodging you, porting to you with sword, or staying in stealth ( all of which can eclipse ele condi removal and requires the thief just to be a thief)

Few examples but most classes do have ways with little to no investment to take care of burst condies, while and ele ( and rev) are actually struggling against themAnd it's not going to get better.With the introduction of grievers you will be forced to make the choice of getting ride of condies or healing from burst damageDiamond skin will be useless if people are able to hit you below the threshold using a mix of power damage.

Again I'm really interested in this build you have though. Will probably help change the minds of a few people if you could share what you have and what you are doing to prevent repeated burst in the short time they can be done, while surviving and contributing to your team.

I already listed a ton of condi-cleansing options available for elementalist.

Running Tempest you can take use the rather selfish combination of:

• Water with "Soothing Disruption" and "Cleansing Water"
• Tempest with "Invigorating Torrents"
• Use "Ether Renewal"
• Add one or more utility cantrips

As a result: every cantrip removes a condition, every aura removes a condition (which means every overload removes a condition), and then Ether Renewal removes NINE conditions.

This doesn't even include condition clears from weapon skills like Focus Earth 4 which removes 3 conditions.

If your answer is "I don't want to run any of that!", then enjoy your condi spam :)

@juno.1840 said:I already listed a ton of condi-cleansing options available for elementalist.

Running Tempest you can take use the rather selfish combination of:

• Water with "Soothing Disruption" and "Cleansing Water"
• Tempest with "Invigorating Torrents"
• Use "Ether Renewal"
• Add one or more utility cantrips

As a result: every cantrip removes a condition, every aura removes a condition (which means every overload removes a condition), and then Ether Renewal removes NINE conditions.

This doesn't even include condition clears from weapon skills like Focus Earth 4 which removes 3 conditions.

If your answer is "I don't want to run any of that!", then enjoy your condi spam :)

Yes, I noticed, I also asked that a build be linked that does all these things and still provides decent pressure, like other classes I listed can and have been doing.You can list a bunch of skills available, but if half of them cant be used in a practical setting, or a realistic setting, then....

I'm sure you can find a Tempest build that includes Water traitline with Ether Renewal and a utility cantrip or two that still applies pressure in WvW or PvP.

Just take your current favorite build and start swapping in the elements mentioned above until you achieve a level of condi removal you are satisfied with.

I run Earth/Water/Tempest with all the traits/skills I mentioned... all Celestial... D/F... and I do fine in most 1v1, occasionally ok in a 1v2. If you try and 1v2 heavy condi builds then you'll likely lose, but does most everyone else.