Regeneration to weak?

Over the years, there has been lots of discussion on regeneration.

The community tends to agree that it's too weak, but not on how to fix it. So... A couple of things various people have pointed out about the subject on various threads in the past.

• regeneration feels weak
• it stacks duration. This means that weaker, longer duration regeneration overwrites stronger shorter duration regeneration.
• if it became a stacking boon, like might, the fallout in the resulting zerg combat, and spvp bunker spam would be insane, OP, and probably asinine.
• if you increase the base power of regeneration, it becomes too powerful in builds that currently don't rely on, or otherwise don't care about it.

So that leaves the question: how do you buff regeneration, to make it feel stronger more significant, without tipping the scales to a regeneration meta?

Proposed answer: make regeneration stack in a way unique from might.

• the first application of regeneration stacks duration, exactly as it does now.
• each additional stack, adds its duration to the first stack, then applies for 5 sec. (affected by concentration)
• always ticks for the highest value of regeneration in the stack.
• each new stack does not increase the healing value of regeneration. 25 stacks ticks for the same value as 1 stack.
• each application of regeneration applies a (very) small "splash heal" to the player per stack of regeneration they already have on them.

So, how this works in plain english. Stacking regeneration, stacks duration and quantity. No matter the quantity, the ticking effect is always the same power level. Applying an 'extra stack' of regeneration only lasts for 5 sec. (no matter the duration of the skill that applies it.)

• break here to show an example. I cast a 10 sec regeneration on a player. Then 2 sec later, cast a 16 sec regeneration on the same player.... then they will have 8sec left on thier previous duration, making total duration of stack #1 24 sec. then, the target is healed for a tiny amount x2 for 2 stacks. And has two stacks of regeneration for the next 5 sec. (the next stack heals x3 for 3 stacks, and so on)
• another example here. If a player in a raid currently has 40 sec of regeneration on them, and a number of stacks of regeneration fluctuating (from the raid group applying the boon) between 5 and 15 stacks. You as the main healer call out on discord for a regeneration bomb, and the stacks on the raid fly up into the 12-25 mark per player. Then you apply AoE regeneration. This adds a tiny heal to each player x12-25.

As for the issue of the "splash heal" on application. This heal should be very small. Say, half of the base value of regeneration. But scale with healing power much more sharply. So, if you have a character with 'primary stat healing power' gear, the "splash heal" should hit about 2/3 as hard as a single tick of regenerate does, per stack.

So, let's do some napkin math. Assuming this is a build in "cleric's gear or something similar".

Say regeneration heals for 300. Then the splash should heal for 200.

The splash heal in detail.

• can only trigger once per second.
• triggers on a 1 sec delay.
• always uses the highest healing power of any regeneration applied in the last second to calculate healing.
• using the above 'napkin math' at max stacks would offer a 5000 "burst" heal.
• due to stacks past the first having limited duration, actually getting up to that level of regeneration to trigger the heal would be difficult.
• a build with no healing power would splash heal for say, 50 per stack, for 1250 @ 25. Hyper sensitive scaling.
• most classes that can apply regeneration could only apply 2 or 3 stacks. So hitting those high stack markers would be a team effort. Creating combos more interesting that just water field blasting.

OK, so, if you have read this far, kudos.

I don't claim this is the best solution. Just another proposition to get the conversation started about regeneration again.

Should stack in potency (to make it kinda anti-condition which also stacks in potency) rather than duration, I agree.

I think it's an interesting idea. I think the part I like about it most is that it's tough to maximize alone. With the changes to might, some classes constantly fart out might by just dodging and can reach and maintain max stacks easily. This feels like it would be difficult to maintain outside of 3+ people dedicated to farting out regen constantly. It's definitely worth considering as I also feel Regeneration is lacking.

Some other ideas to roll around:

• You could make the boon similar to Stability in that each stack doesn't actually do anything (no heal on application or anything) but instead expires when a certain even occurs (like the player is struck or recieves a condition, then a stack is expended to apply a heal).
• Stacks affect players' heals, like each stack improves outgoing healing or improves the healing of your heal skill.
• Keep the duration stacking as it is but add some other utility to it like protection from critical hits or a chance to ignore all condition damage for a tic, either of those calculated from the effectiveness of the regen boon.

Based on that idea to connect it to the function of stability stacks... What if the "splash heal" only applies when a regenerating target is healed? (rather than on regeneration application)

Then have that incoming heal consume all but the last stack of regeneration.

I went into this thread thinking, "sigh, not again," because I think regen works as is. But I found myself really liking the proposal.

Have my +1.

@Oglaf.1074 said:Should stack in potency (to make it kinda anti-condition which also stacks in potency) rather than duration, I agree.

Completely agree with this and the other idea.

Well thought out.
+1.

@OP What are your thoughts on protection and retaliation in their current states? I personally think they should interact with conditions to some extent.

Regen needs Buff coz poison and other conditions stacks now. Maybe let regen Stack too, but only 5-10 stacks?

Also it isnt op even If it stacks up to 25 stacks, coz boon corrupt Will corrupt regen to STACKABLE poison ^^

@Exalted Quality.8534 said:Well thought out.

+1.

@OP What are your thoughts on protection and retaliation in their current states? I personally think they should interact with conditions to some extent.

I think retaliation is underwhelming everywhere except in zerg combat.

• I had thought about retaliation working similarly to confusion (as in, trigger extra damage bonus skill use) reason being, it feels weak atm, but if you buff its base damage, people kill themselves against the zerg.
• if retaliation's damage triggers against attacker's, and in an AoE at range 240, this makes the boon feel more interesting, and makes you want to build for it, rather than just being an extra gold icon on your bar.

Protection is currently both underpowered, and too readily available. So, when you have protection, you don't feel protected. But you can get protection so easily on so many classes.

Soulbeast has a trait the gives protection - 33% condition damage.

If this were baseline, and the damage resistance went up to 50%.... But durations went down across the board. It would help. But I'll admit, I hadn't thought much about either of those until you asked.

@BrokenGlass.9356 said:

@Exalted Quality.8534 said:Well thought out.

+1.

@OP What are your thoughts on protection and retaliation in their current states? I personally think they should interact with conditions to some extent.

• I had thought about retaliation working similarly to confusion (as in, trigger extra damage bonus skill use) reason being, it feels weak atm, but if you buff its base damage, people kill themselves against the zerg.
• if retaliation's damage triggers against attacker's, and in an AoE at range 240, this makes the boon feel more interesting, and makes you want to build for it, rather than just being an extra gold icon on your bar.

If you increase the effectiveness while lowering the duration of Protection at some point it just becomes a crappier Aegis.