OP Updated: Please remove 'global' cooldown on Instrument notes (why is the cooldown 'global'?) — Guild Wars 2 Forums

OP Updated: Please remove 'global' cooldown on Instrument notes (why is the cooldown 'global'?)

Eidolonemesis.5640Eidolonemesis.5640 Member ✭✭✭
edited December 27, 2017 in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

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TL;DR: If not to remove cooldown completely on instrument notes, like the GW2 musician community has long wished for, then make the cooldown 'local' and not 'global' (as explained in my initial comments below).

That would still combat some of the 'annoyance' factor players have argued in the past, meaning those particular low, mid, or high notes can only be pressed a certain number of times themselves until they go on cooldown, and even at that point, the instruments are still not be 100% unlocked. Other than no accidentals, that solution, in conjunction with setting everyone's 'Player Instrument Volume' to 2-5% (to combat the 'annoyance' factor) will solve 90% of the problem with the in-game instruments.

We are NOT asking you, Anet, to unlock the instruments to such degree where thousands of notes can be played per second in the event someone decided to use such a script to troll, to annoy other players, or to possibly crash an entire Map.

As exampled for someone in the comments, I cannot even play the chords to something simple as Cowboy Bebop - Piano Bar without cooldowns kicking in, or in another part of that track, I cannot quickly alternate between two different single notes on two different octaves repeatedly for a short time (at 1:04 or at 2:27) without cooldowns kicking in.

I translated the entire track for the in-game Harp, yet I cannot play certain parts of it. The cooldowns on notes are clearly too strict.

Here, take a listen to the tempo in certain parts I would like Anet to let us play at without such strict cooldowns:


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My initial comments:

Why is the cooldown on every Major note on every instrument 'global'? To use the Harp as an example, if any of the lowest Major notes: C D E F G A B C on the first octave go on cooldown, so do any of the C D E F G A B C Major notes on the second and third octaves, meaning each note does not have its own cooldown. The cooldown is shared 'globally'.

Note: The Harp, Lute, and Bass start at C Major from lowest to highest. Every other instrument starts at E Major from lowest to highest, except the Choir Bell that starts/ends at D Major.

That is the silliest limitation. No cooldown on Skills is OP; no cooldown on instrument notes is not. The above stated scenario is like using Skill 1 on a Greatsword that then goes on cooldown, only to weapon swap and find Skill 1 on your Sword is also on cooldown.

The reason I compare weapon swapping between two different weapons to octave changing between different octaves on any of the in-game instruments is because octave changing is really no different than weapon swapping. Weapon swapping gives you access to different skills; octave changing gives you access to different notes.

Even if the Cooldown limitation is intended to prevent annoying other players (the only argument I can think of to not fix this issue), then turn off all players' 'Player instrument Volume' by default in the Sound Options, that or put the volume at 2 or 5% by default for every player (audible just enough to hear the instruments play, and to hear them working).

It is obvious the cooldown limitation was purposely implemented since different instruments have worse cooldowns than others. The game itself is not limiting us; it is you, the devs (those who were in charge of coding the instruments), who limited our capabilities. Other than the possible aforementioned argument, why?

It is bad enough we do not have access to Sharps and Flats, and most of us in the GW2 musician community can get around those by transposing music and/or utilizing clever music theory tricks, but for the love of music, please remove 'global' cooldown on instrument notes. 'Localize' the cooldowns.

Had you not put such strict limitations on the instruments in the first place, I guarantee instrument sales would have went very well. People globally love music. That is a fact. And even if you lessened the limitation on the instruments now, I still guarantee more instruments will sell, and the whole GW2 musician community will thank you for it.

P.S. For those of you who do not think this is a big deal, let me introduce you to GW2's largest musician community filled with thousands (not hundreds) of compositions: http://gw2mb.com/archive.php The only reason why our complaints have died down because our many complains about the in-game instruments met with blind eyes. I, however, will not give up. I have single-handedly tabbed 250+ compositions under username, Valdrimari, and I take music seriously. It is what I play in-game; it is what I play in real life.

I joined the music site because players in-game questioned my playing, despite my change-ups, tempo change, etc. so I figured why not? It does me no good keeping all my tab to myself, anyway, when I can share them with the GW2 community.

Thank you.

Comments

  • Loosmaster.8263Loosmaster.8263 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Why the hell does it have a cool down to begin with. That utterly hinders any individuality.

    Fàther - Create a mount then kill it until it's more useless than PvE. "Smart"
    Tactical Killers
    Server(DR)

  • Eidolonemesis.5640Eidolonemesis.5640 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 25, 2017

    @Loosmaster.8263 said:
    Why the hell does it have a cool down to begin with. That utterly hinders any individuality.

    At least twice every year I bring that question up, to which none of the developers who were in charge of coding the instruments has commented, and until one of the developers does provide a legit explanation regarding why there is a cooldown in the first place, me and the rest of the GW2 musician community is going to bring this up, even if we have to keep complaining about it for another 4-5 years, or until the game completely dies.

    It is one thing if every note had its own cooldown, but a 'globally' shared cooldown is completely unacceptable. For the longest time, me and my musician friends thought each note had its own cooldown.

    We at least want the cooldown gone, and if not completely gone, at least make it where each note has its own cooldown!

  • please remove :)

  • I'd rather have them add the accidentals first.

  • Eidolonemesis.5640Eidolonemesis.5640 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 27, 2017

    @Lord Daedhelor.5431 said:
    I'd rather have them add the accidentals first.

    Adding accidentals first makes no sense. What good is adding accidentals first if Anet does not remove the cooldown first, or make it where each note has its own cooldown? It would be a dream if they fixed the cooldown issue and added accidentals, but those two fixes implemented together is less likely to happen.

    If they add accidentals first without removing the cooldown issue first (with whatever system they implement to replace the Skill Bar with a more Piano-like UI), it will be much worse when playing chords with accidentals and majors together. The cooldown is bad enough with just playing majors together to make up a chord, and I have tabbed enough music to know that.

    With that being said, removing the cooldown on notes is more likely to happen, anyway, since adding accidentals will require Anets devs to design a new UI for a piano-like setup, and Anet is not going to do any more work than they have to (a proven fact, since the cooldown issue alone has still not been addressed).

  • Lunarlife.5128Lunarlife.5128 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 26, 2017

    The spam would/could be annoying and having to change sound settings for anothers actions is silly.

  • Eidolonemesis.5640Eidolonemesis.5640 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 26, 2017

    @Lunarlife.5128 said:
    The spam would/could be annoying and having to change sound settings for anothers actions is silly.

    It is not like players do not change volumes already. That is no good excuse to not fix the issue, because not fixing the issue makes those who tab music like me suffer because our capabilities have been limited.

    Furthermore, even without the cooldown on instrument notes, anyone with an instrument can still annoy other players around them by continuously hitting the highest C Major (either by itself or together with other high notes) on the Bass Guitar, the Harp, or worse, the Horn. Therefore, the 'annoyance' argument at this point is weak. In fact, it was never a strong argument to begin with.

    The fix for the 'annoyance' issue is either setting everyone's 'Player Instrument Volume' to 5% by default (or 2%, audible just enough to hear the instruments play and to hear them working), OR turn off everybody's 'Player Instrument Volume' by default. The musician community has been saying that for a while now.

    Those are the two solutions, and if I had to choose one, it would be for Anet to set everyone's 'Player Instrument Volume' to 2 or 5%, and it only takes seconds to change it permanently to whatever volume you want after that.

  • Yes,. the spam would be annoying, I think a very short delay would work, say 10 milliseconds.

  • Eidolonemesis.5640Eidolonemesis.5640 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 26, 2017

    @Cakemeister.5792 said:
    Yes,. the spam would be annoying, I think a very short delay would work, say 10 milliseconds.

    Not if Anet (after getting rid of cooldowns on notes) sets everyone's 'Player Instrument Volume' to 2-5% (or turns it off by default, but I would rather 2-5% so players do not think the instruments are broken).

    How many times must the counterargument be reiterated? Not only that (as detailed in my other comment I just posted), players who own instruments can still very easily annoy other players even with cooldowns on the Harp, the Bass, or worse, the Horn. So what do annoyed players do at that point? They go into their Sound Options Window to see if an option exists to turn down Instrument Volume, and most players at this point know the Instrument Volume option exists exists, anyway.

    With all the above said in mind, the biggest issue here is the fact every notes' cooldown is 'globally' shared when the cooldown should be 'local' like it is on regular Skills. My musician friends and I have only just recently discovered the cooldowns being 'global'. We always thought each note, at the very least, had its own cooldown.

    Even if Anet did keep the cooldown around for instruments notes, and they made it where each note had its own cooldown, that would still combat some of the 'annoyance' factor you argued, meaning those particular low, mid or high notes can only be pressed a certain number of times themselves until they go on cooldown, and even at that point, the instruments are still not be 100% unlocked (but it would still help us in the musician community).

    Again, having a cooldown is one thing, but a 'global' cooldown on instrument notes is ridiculous. That is what this thread is mainly about, for each note have its own cooldown, if not to remove the cooldown completely.

  • Aktium.9506Aktium.9506 Member ✭✭✭

    @Loosmaster.8263 said:
    Why the hell does it have a cool down to begin with. That utterly hinders any individuality.

    Because you could just hold your autoclick button down and spam thousands of sounds in seconds. It caused map crashes and sounded awful.

  • How plausible would it be to add MIDI support? + a few octaves alongside, if at all possible?
    Or even something as simple as dedicating a keyboard bind for every note individually?

    Because the game could please a very niche audience with a proper musical feature like this, i'd love to see this taken beyond just a gem store gimmick that's a very limited and inconvenient musical tool.

  • What about a map, or instance, that's specifically designed for making music?
    Like, if it's true that those cooldowns are in place to protect the average joe crafting in LA from getting annoyed by some musicians, would it be an ok solution to give the musicians a dedicated place to make music or even give concerts, where all cooldowns are removed because those who don't like to get annoyed won't even join?

  • Eidolonemesis.5640Eidolonemesis.5640 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 27, 2017

    @Aktium.9506 said:

    @Loosmaster.8263 said:
    Why the hell does it have a cool down to begin with. That utterly hinders any individuality.

    Because you could just hold your autoclick button down and spam thousands of sounds in seconds. It caused map crashes and sounded awful.

    I had to leave to work earlier as of my most previous comment before this one, so pardon my late reply.

    If you read the TL;DR part of my OP (clearly you did not), you would see I specifically said, and I quote, "If not to get rid of cooldown entirely, then make it so 'each note' has its own cooldown." end of quote. What that means is there would still be cooldowns, just not a 'global' cooldown like we have now. Therefore, spamming 'thousands' of notes per second would not be possible.

    Again, if nothing else, the restrictions limiting our capabilities in the musician community need to be 'lessened', yet not to the point, as you exampled, where players can spam thousands of notes a second. That is not what I am suggesting at all.

    For example, to get an idea of the tempo I would like to play at with chords at a fairly good speed, look up Cowboy Bebop - Piano Bar. That is not even a ridiculous fast piece of music, and yet I cannot play its chords without cooldowns kicking in. That to me is too much of a restriction.

  • Eidolonemesis.5640Eidolonemesis.5640 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 27, 2017

    @Thanathos.2063 said:
    What about a map, or instance, that's specifically designed for making music?
    Like, if it's true that those cooldowns are in place to protect the average joe crafting in LA from getting annoyed by some musicians, would it be an ok solution to give the musicians a dedicated place to make music or even give concerts, where all cooldowns are removed because those who don't like to get annoyed won't even join?

    That would be a terrible idea, notably because there would be freedom only in that Map and nowhere else. The awesome thing about playing the instruments in the first place is to play wherever you want, and those around you who do not like the music being played at all can simply turn off their 'Player Instrument Volume' like they do already, regardless if Anet gives us more freedom or not by making cooldowns on instrument notes 'local' instead of 'global' across all notes.

    Furthermore, designing/implementing an entire Map dedicated to musicians would take more work than to change a few numeric values in the game's code to 'lessen' the cooldown limitations on instrument notes.

  • Eidolonemesis.5640Eidolonemesis.5640 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 27, 2017

    @virgin suicide.6038 said:
    How plausible would it be to add MIDI support? + a few octaves alongside, if at all possible?
    Or even something as simple as dedicating a keyboard bind for every note individually?

    Because the game could please a very niche audience with a proper musical feature like this, i'd love to see this taken beyond just a gem store gimmick that's a very limited and inconvenient musical tool.

    If I am not mistaken, Anet said they cannot implement MIDI support due to limitations in the engine the game runs on, unless somehow they made it work with the game using some third-party source (like other games do when their engine does not support certain features).

    With that being said, since the GW2 musician community knows MIDI support will likely never happen, all we really want from Anet is for better playability. That is it. Get rid of the 'global' cooldown and we will be a lot better off. That will not 100% unlock the instruments, but it will do.

  • Rezzet.3614Rezzet.3614 Member ✭✭✭

    I would love to play me some Dragonforce songs

  • Eidolonemesis.5640Eidolonemesis.5640 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 28, 2017

    @Rezzet.3614 said:
    I would love to play me some Dragonforce songs

    I actually have half of Dragonforce - Through the FIre and Flames tabbed, yet only for the Bass using single notes without going on cooldown because no chords are used. I can tab the whole thing for the Harp, too, yet because the chords easily go on cooldown, I never bothered with it.

    I tell you what, if Anet removes 'global' cooldown (the culprit of instrument playability issues), I will publish a full, playable version of Through the Fire and Flames (including the ridiculous solo without Flats or Sharps) that only may, at the point, still require me to dumb down a few chords so cooldowns do not occur. Just look up my work at: http://gw2mb.com/archive.php under username: Valdrimari in the search box. I can very easily tab it.

    I tabbed Richard Wagner's - Ride of the Valkyries in two octaves on the Bass (to prove a point not long ago), and I even tabbed Chrono Cross - Frozen Flame on the site with three versions: the original version at its fast tempo, a second version at a slightly faster tempo, and a third playable melancholy version at a slower tempo.

    I not only tab the music I like, but I have proven being able to play it in-game as well. I can stop at any time, resume, change tempo, add glissando or utilize complex arpeggios wherever I want, skip to another part of a song, immediately play something else in the middle of any song, etc. I have been playing music probably longer than any of you guys in the comments have been alive for almost 30 years. I still work, but playing music and playing games is what I enjoy most during my downtime.

    The more people who blow this thread up with support, the more likely something will be done about instrument playability issues, and the more music I can tab for players in the GW2 community. I have many unplayable requests up the wazoo I would like to finish next year in 2018, so please support.

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