Role of mesmer in WvW? — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Role of mesmer in WvW?

Rysdude.3824Rysdude.3824 Member ✭✭✭✭

Hello everyone,
Posting to get some clarification on what the "expected" role is for a mesmer in WvW. I'm still very new to the environment and want to make sure I'm doing something meaningful for my world. As I understand it, mesmers make great roamers, i.e. flipping caps and taking down those singular guards. They're often good at picking off stragglers on larger blobs. But I was once assigned in a zerg to stick next to the commander and guard him as I was told they were great for that. That was a bit different, but I liked it. It was also a role I didn't know about. Are there any other things mesmers can be useful for? I am currently playing a Power Mirage.
Thanks for reading.

Comments

  • Arlette.9684Arlette.9684 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 25, 2017

    Troll people by repeatedly farming their loot bags until they come to this forum and cry “NERF!”

    Vae Victus!
    [Hcm] Promotraitor

  • MUDse.7623MUDse.7623 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 25, 2017

    you can get people inside objectives with portal even if all walls and gates are closed. but for hiding in them you either need luck or a thief friend that is good at playing hide and seek.
    in zergs you mostly just spamm boonshare and veil bot. a gravity well can also be very deadly when placed correctly or classic moa to focus enemy commander. and sometimes, very rare your commander might want to suprise your opponent with a portalbomb wich will end mostly with your zerg wiping (not sure if that is being useful then)if you only port in a spellbreaker for a bubble might be better use.
    there are also alot of shortcuts in objectives and outside with blink, that not every class has access too so you can put up QoL ports, tho mostly Scourges are used for that as there is a target limit on port and you often got more scourges than mesmers and might not get everyone through one portal.

  • Subterfuge.

  • Elementalist Owner.7802Elementalist Owner.7802 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 26, 2017

    @Rysdude.3824 said:
    Hello everyone,
    Posting to get some clarification on what the "expected" role is for a mesmer in WvW. I'm still very new to the environment and want to make sure I'm doing something meaningful for my world. As I understand it, mesmers make great roamers, i.e. flipping caps and taking down those singular guards. They're often good at picking off stragglers on larger blobs. But I was once assigned in a zerg to stick next to the commander and guard him as I was told they were great for that. That was a bit different, but I liked it. It was also a role I didn't know about. Are there any other things mesmers can be useful for? I am currently playing a Power Mirage.
    Thanks for reading.

    Condi mesmers are among the best roamers because trailblazer stats are so powerful. Some groups still take a single minstrel support chrono in GvGs because a well placed gravity well inside a warrior dome can win the round easily. However, since the recent balance patch nerfed distortion share, and because firebroken (firebrand*) is so powerful, I would say support chrono has fallen out of meta.

  • @Arlette.9684 said:
    Troll people by repeatedly farming their loot bags until they come to this forum and cry “NERF!”

    so 1 v 1 with any class and one shotting them (even full tank classes with 32khp and almost 4000 toughness) is working as intended... right..

    yes.. mesmers need a nerf and you know it.. it takes no skill to stealth in.. shatter all your clones and run away a winner.

    Mesmers do need an AoE buff to make them actually compedative in large scale play but they are definetly king of roamers now as there is no risk and all reward with the new one shot kill build.

  • Burnfall.9573Burnfall.9573 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 26, 2017

    @trueanimus.4085 said:

    @Arlette.9684 said:
    Troll people by repeatedly farming their loot bags until they come to this forum and cry “NERF!”

    so 1 v 1 with any class and one shotting them (even full tank classes with 32khp and almost 4000 toughness) is working as intended... right..

    yes.. mesmers need a nerf and you know it.. it takes no skill to stealth in.. shatter all your clones and run away a winner.

    Mesmers do need an AoE buff to make them actually compedative in large scale play but they are definetly king of roamers now as there is no risk and all reward with the new one shot kill build.

    Better yet, remove this counterfeit mesmer entirely

    This is The Mesmer who was forcibly replaced by Gw2 counterfeit mesmer.

    https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Mesmer

  • Arlette.9684Arlette.9684 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 26, 2017

    @trueanimus.4085 said:

    @Arlette.9684 said:
    Troll people by repeatedly farming their loot bags until they come to this forum and cry “NERF!”

    so 1 v 1 with any class and one shotting them (even full tank classes with 32khp and almost 4000 toughness) is working as intended... right..

    yes.. mesmers need a nerf and you know it.. it takes no skill to stealth in.. shatter all your clones and run away a winner.

    Mesmers do need an AoE buff to make them actually compedative in large scale play but they are definetly king of roamers now as there is no risk and all reward with the new one shot kill build.

    So let me get this straight, you are complaining that power Mesmer is OP. On every other thread people are complaining that Condi Mesmer is OP. Geez guys, which one is it? You can’t nerf all specs cuz they’re OP. At that point you might as well just scrap the profession and start anew.

    And let me tell you, ANet is not going to scrap it and start over.

    You wanna prove your point about no risk and all reward?
    Make a mesmer, play it. Shoot a video of how EZ mode it is and post a link. Until then... shhhhhh.

    Vae Victus!
    [Hcm] Promotraitor

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 26, 2017

    @Burnfall.9573. wich would end with +90% of the current mesmer players QQ they cant play the class... because requires way more thinking.
    No stealth, no clones, just pure skill, kite and know how to beat the other builds, know how to pressure with hexes and wich hex, know how to teamwork with condis, rather than easy spam with no effort pressure targets nor skill, know when enemy is hidding energy, interrupt instant skills ;)...????? it would be madness even for most of the gw2 hardcore players...

    Gw2 is for bad players.

  • Kyon.9735Kyon.9735 Member ✭✭✭

    @Arlette.9684 said:

    @trueanimus.4085 said:

    @Arlette.9684 said:
    Troll people by repeatedly farming their loot bags until they come to this forum and cry “NERF!”

    so 1 v 1 with any class and one shotting them (even full tank classes with 32khp and almost 4000 toughness) is working as intended... right..

    yes.. mesmers need a nerf and you know it.. it takes no skill to stealth in.. shatter all your clones and run away a winner.

    Mesmers do need an AoE buff to make them actually compedative in large scale play but they are definetly king of roamers now as there is no risk and all reward with the new one shot kill build.

    So let me get this straight, you are complaining that power Mesmer is OP. On every other thread people are complaining that Condi Mesmer is OP. Geez guys, which one is it? You can’t nerf all specs cuz they’re OP. At that point you might as well just scrap the profession and start anew.

    And let me tell you, ANet is not going to scrap it and start over.

    You wanna prove your point about no risk and all reward?
    Make a mesmer, play it. Shoot a video of how EZ mode it is and post a link. Until then... shhhhhh.

    The no-risk high reward might have been an exaggeration to some extent. Mesmers need to trade mobility/damage/daze utility for a decent cleanse. Despite that, Mesmer (more specifically Mirage) is the most forgiving class in WvW right now on a roamer's perspective. Even more forgiving than Spellbreakers after the changes to Last Stand and Full Counter.

    Energy Sigils, 40% Endurance regen food, and Elusive Mind. Also, please stop exaggerating how hard it is to press a couple of buttons to burst someone down. Even if a Mirage wasn't able to straight up 100-0 someone's HP, they already have the advantage as their target has to pop a lot of their defensive cooldowns and will be forced to play defensively which is already considered a win for a glass build since you won't be taking much return pressure.

    • Stunbreak on evade.
    • Access to Invulnerability.
    • Lots of evasion frames due to easily abused dodge mechanics because of Food and Sigils (can even use Adventurer runes to further abuse it).
    • Access to Stealth.
    • Great Mobility.
    • Great Burst.
    • Decent cleanse at the expense of an offensive utility skill.

    Mirage has the best tools for a roamer and is very easy to use even for casuals as long as they put a little time learning the rotations. IMO only delusional people can straight up say it's balanced.

  • atheria.2837atheria.2837 Member ✭✭✭

    @Arlette.9684 said:
    Troll people by repeatedly farming their loot bags until they come to this forum and cry “NERF!”

    So if one can't dent a toon with every 'trick' we have at our disposal that's balance?

    Three people can't take down some toons and that's everything from mesmers, warriors and thieves...

    That is not balance in any way.

    Role? Doesn't matter, you can walk on water - the rest of us just have to make sure we are in groups of three or more - and that's not
    going to happen in many time zones.

  • Oozo.7856Oozo.7856 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 26, 2017

    @Arlette.9684 said:

    @trueanimus.4085 said:

    @Arlette.9684 said:
    Troll people by repeatedly farming their loot bags until they come to this forum and cry “NERF!”

    so 1 v 1 with any class and one shotting them (even full tank classes with 32khp and almost 4000 toughness) is working as intended... right..

    yes.. mesmers need a nerf and you know it.. it takes no skill to stealth in.. shatter all your clones and run away a winner.

    Mesmers do need an AoE buff to make them actually compedative in large scale play but they are definetly king of roamers now as there is no risk and all reward with the new one shot kill build.

    So let me get this straight, you are complaining that power Mesmer is OP. On every other thread people are complaining that Condi Mesmer is OP. Geez guys, which one is it? You can’t nerf all specs cuz they’re OP. At that point you might as well just scrap the profession and start anew.

    And let me tell you, ANet is not going to scrap it and start over.

    You wanna prove your point about no risk and all reward?
    Make a mesmer, play it. Shoot a video of how EZ mode it is and post a link. Until then... shhhhhh.

    They are both OP. I'm actually collecting clips on a condition Mesmer. First time ever playing a Mesmer but I'm easily beating people 1v1 and winning 1v2s and 1v3s or forcing them to run away. It is easy mode, no doubt about it.

  • Arlette.9684Arlette.9684 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 26, 2017

    @Oozo.7856 said:

    @Arlette.9684 said:

    @trueanimus.4085 said:

    @Arlette.9684 said:
    Troll people by repeatedly farming their loot bags until they come to this forum and cry “NERF!”

    so 1 v 1 with any class and one shotting them (even full tank classes with 32khp and almost 4000 toughness) is working as intended... right..

    yes.. mesmers need a nerf and you know it.. it takes no skill to stealth in.. shatter all your clones and run away a winner.

    Mesmers do need an AoE buff to make them actually compedative in large scale play but they are definetly king of roamers now as there is no risk and all reward with the new one shot kill build.

    So let me get this straight, you are complaining that power Mesmer is OP. On every other thread people are complaining that Condi Mesmer is OP. Geez guys, which one is it? You can’t nerf all specs cuz they’re OP. At that point you might as well just scrap the profession and start anew.

    And let me tell you, ANet is not going to scrap it and start over.

    You wanna prove your point about no risk and all reward?
    Make a mesmer, play it. Shoot a video of how EZ mode it is and post a link. Until then... shhhhhh.

    They are both OP. I'm actually collecting clips on a condition Mesmer. First time ever playing a Mesmer but I'm easily beating people 1v1 and winning 1v2s and 1v3s or forcing them to run away. It is easy mode, no doubt about it.

    And I got to beta test Elon Musk's Mars shuttle last night. It was one hell of a ride I tell ya. First time piloting a space craft, but man it's easy... I was thinking about doing the Kessel run next, see if I can beat Han Solo's record.

    Vae Victus!
    [Hcm] Promotraitor

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 27, 2017

    @Kyon.9735 said:
    Mirage has the best tools for a roamer and is very easy to use even for casuals as long as they put a little time learning the rotations. IMO only delusional people can straight up say it's balanced.

    And yet if it's that easy and forgiving why isnt WvW absolutely swarming with mesmers? How many do you really meet in a day of roaming? What's the percentage of encounters compared to other classes? Anyone keeping track? Because it would be really interesting to see the statistics across a week, day by day, on how many unique mirages you meet (repeat encounters still only count as one of course, no matter the class).

    My guess would be mirages account for like... 5% of what you meet in a day. And that the main difference between them and the wide range of other classes is that the other are ranging from roamers capable of taking on mirages to meta zerger that's meh against roamers to what-the-kitten-even-is-that-build, while the mirage will be running an optimised roaming build.

    Dont look a gift Asura in the mouth.
    No seriously, dont. Shark teeth.

  • Oozo.7856Oozo.7856 Member ✭✭✭

    I run across mostly thieves, mesmers and warriors when roaming. After that, holosmiths and soulbeasts/druids. I posted these on the Mesmer forum in a PU thread for the Elon Musk test pilot.

    Forgive any poor gameplay by me since these fights are literally from my first two days playing mesmer.



    These are unlisted, I just put them up so a few friends could see what the playstyle is like. Mesmer is the easiest low risk/high reward class that I have personally played. Second on that list is thief.

    @Arlette.9684 said:

    @Oozo.7856 said:

    @Arlette.9684 said:

    @trueanimus.4085 said:

    @Arlette.9684 said:
    Troll people by repeatedly farming their loot bags until they come to this forum and cry “NERF!”

    so 1 v 1 with any class and one shotting them (even full tank classes with 32khp and almost 4000 toughness) is working as intended... right..

    yes.. mesmers need a nerf and you know it.. it takes no skill to stealth in.. shatter all your clones and run away a winner.

    Mesmers do need an AoE buff to make them actually compedative in large scale play but they are definetly king of roamers now as there is no risk and all reward with the new one shot kill build.

    So let me get this straight, you are complaining that power Mesmer is OP. On every other thread people are complaining that Condi Mesmer is OP. Geez guys, which one is it? You can’t nerf all specs cuz they’re OP. At that point you might as well just scrap the profession and start anew.

    And let me tell you, ANet is not going to scrap it and start over.

    You wanna prove your point about no risk and all reward?
    Make a mesmer, play it. Shoot a video of how EZ mode it is and post a link. Until then... shhhhhh.

    They are both OP. I'm actually collecting clips on a condition Mesmer. First time ever playing a Mesmer but I'm easily beating people 1v1 and winning 1v2s and 1v3s or forcing them to run away. It is easy mode, no doubt about it.

    And I got to beta test Elon Musk's Mars shuttle last night. It was one hell of a ride I tell ya. First time piloting a space craft, but man it's easy... I was thinking about doing the Kessel run next, see if I can beat Han Solo's record.

  • Nuka Cola.8520Nuka Cola.8520 Member ✭✭✭✭

    One shot everything. What else??

  • Simonoly.4352Simonoly.4352 Member ✭✭✭

    @Oozo.7856 said:
    I run across mostly thieves, mesmers and warriors when roaming. After that, holosmiths and soulbeasts/druids. I posted these on the Mesmer forum in a PU thread for the Elon Musk test pilot.

    Forgive any poor gameplay by me since these fights are literally from my first two days playing mesmer.

    These are unlisted, I just put them up so a few friends could see what the playstyle is like. Mesmer is the easiest low risk/high reward class that I have personally played. Second on that list is thief.

    I think you could've won against those players regardless of your class choice and build. What on earth was that Deadeye even doing? :astonished:

  • Arlette.9684Arlette.9684 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 27, 2017

    @Simonoly.4352 said:

    @Oozo.7856 said:
    I run across mostly thieves, mesmers and warriors when roaming. After that, holosmiths and soulbeasts/druids. I posted these on the Mesmer forum in a PU thread for the Elon Musk test pilot.

    Forgive any poor gameplay by me since these fights are literally from my first two days playing mesmer.

    These are unlisted, I just put them up so a few friends could see what the playstyle is like. Mesmer is the easiest low risk/high reward class that I have personally played. Second on that list is thief.

    I think you could've won against those players regardless of your class choice and build. What on earth was that Deadeye even doing? :astonished:

    pretty much this!

    The holosmith left his cleanse at home, oh wait that's right... he ain't got any. Or was that Revenant? :wink:
    Words alone are not enough to express how god awful that thief is. Considering your buds on Discord were also laughing their rears off I imagine you had an idea about that one already. But hey it's HoD, that's just the best they can do.
    And don't even get me started on the Deadeye :lol:

    You get a B for effort, at least.
    Now if you want to prove a point, please try with semi-competent players next time.

    Vae Victus!
    [Hcm] Promotraitor

  • ToPNoP.2493ToPNoP.2493 Member ✭✭✭

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Kyon.9735 said:
    Mirage has the best tools for a roamer and is very easy to use even for casuals as long as they put a little time learning the rotations. IMO only delusional people can straight up say it's balanced.

    And yet if it's that easy and forgiving why isnt WvW absolutely swarming with mesmers? How many do you really meet in a day of roaming? What's the percentage of encounters compared to other classes? Anyone keeping track? Because it would be really interesting to see the statistics across a week, day by day, on how many unique mirages you meet (repeat encounters still only count as one of course, no matter the class).

    My guess would be mirages account for like... 5% of what you meet in a day. And that the main difference between them and the wide range of other classes is that the other are ranging from roamers capable of taking on mirages to meta zerger that's meh against roamers to what-the-kitten-even-is-that-build, while the mirage will be running an optimised roaming build.

    Just because it is op, does not mean everyone wants to flock to a build carry. Besides, Mesmer has among the most expensive gear to make. Tbh, probably the no. 1 reason they are the way they are...

    Yes I like comms, but sadly I'm allergic to them.

  • Hi,

    @Arlette.9684 said:
    So let me get this straight, you are complaining that power Mesmer is OP. On every other thread people are complaining that Condi Mesmer is OP. Geez guys, which one is it? You can’t nerf all specs cuz they’re OP. At that point you might as well just scrap the profession and start anew.

    Do you think that mirage is balanced, and that condi mirage is high risk high reward? It's perfectly fine if that's your opinion.

    What follows is just mine, which you are of course free to not share. I've been roaming as a warrior (both power and condi) since 2012, with occasional pauses. However I've played all classes more or less consistently, because it helps to fight against them, and paid special attention to mesmer over time, as it is one hard counter for my main (plus I find it fun to play). Currently:

    • Power mesmer remains high risk high reward, especially when you go Domination,
    • Condi mesmer (esp. mirage) remains low-to-mid risk high reward, a bit more difficult to play than in the past, but not by much.
    • And there are some rare hybrid oddballs which are a pain to deal with and harder to evaluate.

    In expert hands though, any decent build is either lethal or unkillable. That's not a criticism of the class, I feel that all classes have cheese builds, all classes have overpowered traits, especially with a fresh xpac (gotta make things fun for PvE). Also, I've only played about 10 hours of various mirages so far, so I need more training, and might adjust my current evaluation after a couple more.

    I remember when I played mesmer for the first time (a chaos condi build with clone dissipation traits). I 1v2'd a warrior and necro, killing the warrior and routing the necro, and was quite perplexed because I did not even know what I was doing (clones were working for me, but I hadn't realized).

    You wanna prove your point about no risk and all reward?
    Make a mesmer, play it. Shoot a video of how EZ mode it is and post a link. Until then... shhhhhh.

    With all due respect, once someone does it, people will always jump in to say "wow look at how bad the opponents are", so it's pretty useless. People aren't fair and don't want to be fair, especially when they do not multiclass and perceive posts against their class as a personal attack. I have no opinion on that, it's a game after all and I actually like that people get emotional about it, as long as they stay respectful of other players (which unfortunately seems to have become increasingly rare in GW2).

    To be honest though, I feel that the overall fighting level in WvW has dropped quite a bit since... a long time now. New players have come with xpacs, which is a very good thing, but they don't train much (in terms of combat as well as fighting tactics) and are usually easy kills outside of their zergs. I don't mind facing such players (/thanks), but when they're your allies, that can make me /cry.

    Happy gaming.

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 27, 2017

    @ToPNoP.2493 said:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Kyon.9735 said:
    Mirage has the best tools for a roamer and is very easy to use even for casuals as long as they put a little time learning the rotations. IMO only delusional people can straight up say it's balanced.

    And yet if it's that easy and forgiving why isnt WvW absolutely swarming with mesmers? How many do you really meet in a day of roaming? What's the percentage of encounters compared to other classes? Anyone keeping track? Because it would be really interesting to see the statistics across a week, day by day, on how many unique mirages you meet (repeat encounters still only count as one of course, no matter the class).

    My guess would be mirages account for like... 5% of what you meet in a day. And that the main difference between them and the wide range of other classes is that the other are ranging from roamers capable of taking on mirages to meta zerger that's meh against roamers to what-the-kitten-even-is-that-build, while the mirage will be running an optimised roaming build.

    Just because it is op, does not mean everyone wants to flock to a build carry. Besides, Mesmer has among the most expensive gear to make. Tbh, probably the no. 1 reason they are the way they are...

    Uh... what? Most expensive gear to make? Its WvW, the armor is literally free, everyone and their grandma is rocking legendary or ascended weapons and trinkets are cheap as dirt to get.

    Also, everyone seems to flock to spellbreakers, firebrands and scourges easily enough. Same reason people are sticking to druids and daredevils. Your argument is nonsensical. Everyone most definetly flock to what is op.

    Unless you are saying that mesmers have more integrity than the average person and thats why they really arent that common, they dont want to be op.

    Wait what?

    Dont look a gift Asura in the mouth.
    No seriously, dont. Shark teeth.

  • Artaz.3819Artaz.3819 Member ✭✭✭

    Condi mesmer (chrono or mirage) is still one to avoid in nearly all aspects of roaming from an opponent's standpoint. Mirage wins because apply condis and go invulnerable. The annoyance part for mesmers is that most classes simply run away because if they don't they die.

    Condi mesmer = iWin against most 1v1 if you consider allowing them getting away = win

    Power mirage has huge mobility but relies entirely on a once every 12s burst rotation unless you are teaming with someone because of your level of CC. It really is probably the best teammate/duo to always have around because of the amount of CCs and shared boons/stealth.

    Zerg/Power chrono or mirage = brings CC and AoE CC and oh yeah, boons and more soft CC.

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 27, 2017

    @Artaz.3819 said:
    Condi mesmer = iWin against most 1v1 if you consider allowing them getting away = win

    Which is the same we say for all the other builds?
    Sustain druid, iWin against most 1v1 they can lock down and outheal.
    Zerker spellbreaker, iWin against most 1v1 period.
    Cancer scourge, iWin against most 1v1 that cant cleanse or kite.
    Teleporting d/p daredevil, iWin against most 1v1 they can disengage.
    Sustain weaver, iWin against most 1v1 they can outheal.
    Burn firebrand, iWin against most 1v1 because people still havent learn how to cleanse.
    Zerker holosmith, iWin against most 1v1 that doesnt bring tons of stunbreak/stab.

    Etc and so on.

    Against most that doesnt bring any condi cleanse, the condi mesmer is just as strong as any other condi, yes. However, it has a pretty glaring flaw that several of the other "iWin" builds are much, much better at while still being as good at 1v1 (spellbreaker most notably) - they are kitten when fighting outnumbered against equally skilled or better opponents that brought good builds. The better people can cover each other with condi cleanse, the weaker it become when its measly two conditions fail (literally nothing compared to a condi vomitting scourge), it become toothless and unable to pressure its foes. You can overcome it somewhat by a glassy build but well... thats glassy. Good at PvP, not really good at WvW. Power really is the better duo (or more), yes.

    Dont look a gift Asura in the mouth.
    No seriously, dont. Shark teeth.

  • Tseison.4659Tseison.4659 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 27, 2017

    Hey Rysdude! So when I’m usually in WvW I tend to lead a small “infiltration” team of Mesmers and our main duties are mostly getting into keeps and porting the current commander and their Zerg inside, taking small camps and acting as scouts. :)

  • ToPNoP.2493ToPNoP.2493 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 27, 2017

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @ToPNoP.2493 said:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Kyon.9735 said:
    Mirage has the best tools for a roamer and is very easy to use even for casuals as long as they put a little time learning the rotations. IMO only delusional people can straight up say it's balanced.

    And yet if it's that easy and forgiving why isnt WvW absolutely swarming with mesmers? How many do you really meet in a day of roaming? What's the percentage of encounters compared to other classes? Anyone keeping track? Because it would be really interesting to see the statistics across a week, day by day, on how many unique mirages you meet (repeat encounters still only count as one of course, no matter the class).

    My guess would be mirages account for like... 5% of what you meet in a day. And that the main difference between them and the wide range of other classes is that the other are ranging from roamers capable of taking on mirages to meta zerger that's meh against roamers to what-the-kitten-even-is-that-build, while the mirage will be running an optimised roaming build.

    Just because it is op, does not mean everyone wants to flock to a build carry. Besides, Mesmer has among the most expensive gear to make. Tbh, probably the no. 1 reason they are the way they are...

    Uh... what? Most expensive gear to make? Its WvW, the armor is literally free, everyone and their grandma is rocking legendary or ascended weapons and trinkets are cheap as dirt to get.

    Also, everyone seems to flock to spellbreakers, firebrands and scourges easily enough. Same reason people are sticking to druids and daredevils. Your argument is nonsensical. Everyone most definetly flock to what is op.

    Unless you are saying that mesmers have more integrity than the average person and thats why they really arent that common, they dont want to be op.

    Wait what?

    I change my armor around constantly, so this matters little to me, but.
    Apparently you have not made a 350g (~2k gems > 20usd) armor/rune/sigil set for the most op Mesmer/Mirage, that is just to change the build. 350g for the armor mastery (500), 350 gold to make the armor, 350 gold for trailblazer stats, 60 gold for perplexity runes. Oh yea, purchase pof and weapons......... Yea, trinkets are cheap (200 gems to start the quest for each of the reward tracks) , but the armor and runes are not. I already have a tb set with perplexity runes. You could argue that it is not necessary to use trailblazer, that there are cheaper builds that are good in a zerg. But to the most op roamer, who wants to zerg also, TB is absolutely necessary. If the player only has one set of armor, then changing to suit from scourge, well you get the idea. Maybe we should hand blinders out to everyone, they seem to work well for build carry loving critics. Anyway, the game is what it is, there is no changing it. Light classes are op for money, less heavy, more light and medium. We see it, so lets move on...

    Yes I like comms, but sadly I'm allergic to them.

  • Xstein.2187Xstein.2187 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 27, 2017

    @ToPNoP.2493 said:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @ToPNoP.2493 said:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Kyon.9735 said:
    Mirage has the best tools for a roamer and is very easy to use even for casuals as long as they put a little time learning the rotations. IMO only delusional people can straight up say it's balanced.

    And yet if it's that easy and forgiving why isnt WvW absolutely swarming with mesmers? How many do you really meet in a day of roaming? What's the percentage of encounters compared to other classes? Anyone keeping track? Because it would be really interesting to see the statistics across a week, day by day, on how many unique mirages you meet (repeat encounters still only count as one of course, no matter the class).

    My guess would be mirages account for like... 5% of what you meet in a day. And that the main difference between them and the wide range of other classes is that the other are ranging from roamers capable of taking on mirages to meta zerger that's meh against roamers to what-the-kitten-even-is-that-build, while the mirage will be running an optimised roaming build.

    Just because it is op, does not mean everyone wants to flock to a build carry. Besides, Mesmer has among the most expensive gear to make. Tbh, probably the no. 1 reason they are the way they are...

    Uh... what? Most expensive gear to make? Its WvW, the armor is literally free, everyone and their grandma is rocking legendary or ascended weapons and trinkets are cheap as dirt to get.

    Also, everyone seems to flock to spellbreakers, firebrands and scourges easily enough. Same reason people are sticking to druids and daredevils. Your argument is nonsensical. Everyone most definetly flock to what is op.

    Unless you are saying that mesmers have more integrity than the average person and thats why they really arent that common, they dont want to be op.

    Wait what?

    Apparently you have not made a 350g (~2k gems > 20usd) armor/rune/sigil set for the most op Mesmer, that is just to change the build. 350g for the armor mastery (500), 350 gold to make the armor, 350 gold for trailblazer stats, 60 gold for perplexity runes. Oh yea, purchase pof and weapons......... Yea, trinkets are cheap (200 gems to start) , but the armor and runes are not. I already have a tb set with perplexity runes. You could argue that it is not necessary to use trailblazer, that there are cheaper builds that are good in a zerg. But to the most op roamer, who wants to zerg also, TB is absolutely necessary. If the player only has one set of armor, then changing to suit scourge, well you get the idea. Maybe we should hand blinders out to everyone, they seem to work well for build carry loving critics. Anyway, the game is what it is, there is no changing it. Light classes are op for money, less heavy, more light and medium. We see it, so lets move on...

    Only in the gw2 forums can you follow a string of replies that go from "I play power mirage, what is my role in WvW?" to "Condi mirage has expensive gear. Therefore not many play it even though it is op".
    You guys are arguing past each other. Condi mirage has nothing to do with the OPs post. In fact, he didn't even ask about power mirage being op. In case you guys are confused, I suggest you look at who you quoted, who they quoted, and who they quoted, etc. seeing why they posted or quoted along the way. You guys look like your just making assumptions of what the last person meant in their post without reading all the actual previous posts.

  • ToPNoP.2493ToPNoP.2493 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 27, 2017

    @Xstein.2187 said:

    @ToPNoP.2493 said:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @ToPNoP.2493 said:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Kyon.9735 said:
    Mirage has the best tools for a roamer and is very easy to use even for casuals as long as they put a little time learning the rotations. IMO only delusional people can straight up say it's balanced.

    And yet if it's that easy and forgiving why isnt WvW absolutely swarming with mesmers? How many do you really meet in a day of roaming? What's the percentage of encounters compared to other classes? Anyone keeping track? Because it would be really interesting to see the statistics across a week, day by day, on how many unique mirages you meet (repeat encounters still only count as one of course, no matter the class).

    My guess would be mirages account for like... 5% of what you meet in a day. And that the main difference between them and the wide range of other classes is that the other are ranging from roamers capable of taking on mirages to meta zerger that's meh against roamers to what-the-kitten-even-is-that-build, while the mirage will be running an optimised roaming build.

    Just because it is op, does not mean everyone wants to flock to a build carry. Besides, Mesmer has among the most expensive gear to make. Tbh, probably the no. 1 reason they are the way they are...

    Uh... what? Most expensive gear to make? Its WvW, the armor is literally free, everyone and their grandma is rocking legendary or ascended weapons and trinkets are cheap as dirt to get.

    Also, everyone seems to flock to spellbreakers, firebrands and scourges easily enough. Same reason people are sticking to druids and daredevils. Your argument is nonsensical. Everyone most definetly flock to what is op.

    Unless you are saying that mesmers have more integrity than the average person and thats why they really arent that common, they dont want to be op.

    Wait what?

    Apparently you have not made a 350g (~2k gems > 20usd) armor/rune/sigil set for the most op Mesmer, that is just to change the build. 350g for the armor mastery (500), 350 gold to make the armor, 350 gold for trailblazer stats, 60 gold for perplexity runes. Oh yea, purchase pof and weapons......... Yea, trinkets are cheap (200 gems to start) , but the armor and runes are not. I already have a tb set with perplexity runes. You could argue that it is not necessary to use trailblazer, that there are cheaper builds that are good in a zerg. But to the most op roamer, who wants to zerg also, TB is absolutely necessary. If the player only has one set of armor, then changing to suit scourge, well you get the idea. Maybe we should hand blinders out to everyone, they seem to work well for build carry loving critics. Anyway, the game is what it is, there is no changing it. Light classes are op for money, less heavy, more light and medium. We see it, so lets move on...

    Only in the gw2 forums can you follow a string of replies that go from "I play power mirage, what is my role in WvW?" to "Condi mirage has expensive gear. Therefore not many play it even though it is op".
    You guys are arguing past each other. Condi mirage has nothing to do with the OPs post. In fact, he didn't even ask about power mirage being op. In case you guys are confused, I suggest you look at who you quoted, who they quoted, and who they quoted, etc. seeing why they posted or quoted along the way. You guys look like your just making assumptions of what the last person meant in their post without reading all the actual previou

    His post was about expense, the thread is about op. If you want to calculate for power, in my previous statement replace tb with zerker/marauder and perplexity for scholar. Anyway, these post go so far and stretch so wide as to confuse casual readers. The point is, Mesmer is a seemingly god like roamer that is as fast as a thief but with 2 times the attack and two times the armor. Same can be said for scourge in zergs, "like an arrow cart on steroids."...

    Yes I like comms, but sadly I'm allergic to them.

  • Arlette.9684Arlette.9684 Member ✭✭✭✭

    An average piece of cloth ascended armor (excluding chest) costs ~50g maybe less now that Damask is as cheap as it is. It’s much cheaper to craft a cheap insignia like Dire and restat it at the Mystic Forge.
    The fabled Lilys have dropped to about 8g a piece,making restating cost ~24g + another 2-3 for other mats. A month ago my calculation for a full ascended armor set on my Holosmith was ~340 gold. Learhers mind you are quite a bit more expensive than cloths.

    I don’t think 340g for a 6 piece set is that much when you can make an upward of 10g, and likely a whole lot more, an hour.

    Vae Victus!
    [Hcm] Promotraitor

  • Xstein.2187Xstein.2187 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 27, 2017

    @ToPNoP.2493 said:

    @Xstein.2187 said:

    @ToPNoP.2493 said:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @ToPNoP.2493 said:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Kyon.9735 said:
    Mirage has the best tools for a roamer and is very easy to use even for casuals as long as they put a little time learning the rotations. IMO only delusional people can straight up say it's balanced.

    And yet if it's that easy and forgiving why isnt WvW absolutely swarming with mesmers? How many do you really meet in a day of roaming? What's the percentage of encounters compared to other classes? Anyone keeping track? Because it would be really interesting to see the statistics across a week, day by day, on how many unique mirages you meet (repeat encounters still only count as one of course, no matter the class).

    My guess would be mirages account for like... 5% of what you meet in a day. And that the main difference between them and the wide range of other classes is that the other are ranging from roamers capable of taking on mirages to meta zerger that's meh against roamers to what-the-kitten-even-is-that-build, while the mirage will be running an optimised roaming build.

    Just because it is op, does not mean everyone wants to flock to a build carry. Besides, Mesmer has among the most expensive gear to make. Tbh, probably the no. 1 reason they are the way they are...

    Uh... what? Most expensive gear to make? Its WvW, the armor is literally free, everyone and their grandma is rocking legendary or ascended weapons and trinkets are cheap as dirt to get.

    Also, everyone seems to flock to spellbreakers, firebrands and scourges easily enough. Same reason people are sticking to druids and daredevils. Your argument is nonsensical. Everyone most definetly flock to what is op.

    Unless you are saying that mesmers have more integrity than the average person and thats why they really arent that common, they dont want to be op.

    Wait what?

    Apparently you have not made a 350g (~2k gems > 20usd) armor/rune/sigil set for the most op Mesmer, that is just to change the build. 350g for the armor mastery (500), 350 gold to make the armor, 350 gold for trailblazer stats, 60 gold for perplexity runes. Oh yea, purchase pof and weapons......... Yea, trinkets are cheap (200 gems to start) , but the armor and runes are not. I already have a tb set with perplexity runes. You could argue that it is not necessary to use trailblazer, that there are cheaper builds that are good in a zerg. But to the most op roamer, who wants to zerg also, TB is absolutely necessary. If the player only has one set of armor, then changing to suit scourge, well you get the idea. Maybe we should hand blinders out to everyone, they seem to work well for build carry loving critics. Anyway, the game is what it is, there is no changing it. Light classes are op for money, less heavy, more light and medium. We see it, so lets move on...

    Only in the gw2 forums can you follow a string of replies that go from "I play power mirage, what is my role in WvW?" to "Condi mirage has expensive gear. Therefore not many play it even though it is op".
    You guys are arguing past each other. Condi mirage has nothing to do with the OPs post. In fact, he didn't even ask about power mirage being op. In case you guys are confused, I suggest you look at who you quoted, who they quoted, and who they quoted, etc. seeing why they posted or quoted along the way. You guys look like your just making assumptions of what the last person meant in their post without reading all the actual previou

    His post was about expense, the thread is about op. If you want to calculate for power, in my previous statement replace tb with zerker/marauder and perplexity for scholar. Anyway, these post go so far and stretch so wide as to confuse casual readers. The point is, Mesmer is a seemingly god like roamer that is as fast as a thief but with 2 times the attack and two times the armor. Same can be said for scourge in zergs, "like an arrow cart on steroids."...

    1. His post was questioning weather mesmer roaming gear was expensive when all the replies before him started with power mirage. And no, this topic has nothing to do with what the original poster asked.
    2. No kitten, everyone knows you can calculate price on other builds by switching out/in runes and armor types. I just think its funny that this post started on power and you used trailblazer in your cost calculations. Everyone knows trailblazer is a hell of a lot more expensive then zerk. And what? Since you mention thieves in your post, your saying thief roamers use gear that is soooo much cheaper than power mirage?
    3. "The point is, Mesmer is a seemingly god like roamer that is as fast as a thief but with 2 times the attack and two times the armor. Same can be said for scourge in zergs, "like an arrow cart on steroids."..."
    You made the claim, prove it. 2 times the attack you say. So, its exactly 2, not 1.5 or 1.3? Also kind of a vague sentence. Everyone knows that thief has god like sustain compared to a class that is only able to burst every 12 sec. If you question this, look up the dps of thieves compared to a power mesmer without phantasms (since they are shattered). 2 x the armor? How?, please explain. I thought they both usually use a mixture of marauders and zerker. Is there some kind of exclusive mesmer armor that I am not aware of?

  • Rysdude.3824Rysdude.3824 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Thank you everyone for the great answers. I recieved what I asked for and alot more great info. This community rocks!

  • ToPNoP.2493ToPNoP.2493 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 28, 2017

    @Xstein.2187 said:

    @ToPNoP.2493 said:

    @Xstein.2187 said:

    @ToPNoP.2493 said:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @ToPNoP.2493 said:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Kyon.9735 said:
    Mirage has the best tools for a roamer and is very easy to use even for casuals as long as they put a little time learning the rotations. IMO only delusional people can straight up say it's balanced.

    And yet if it's that easy and forgiving why isnt WvW absolutely swarming with mesmers? How many do you really meet in a day of roaming? What's the percentage of encounters compared to other classes? Anyone keeping track? Because it would be really interesting to see the statistics across a week, day by day, on how many unique mirages you meet (repeat encounters still only count as one of course, no matter the class).

    My guess would be mirages account for like... 5% of what you meet in a day. And that the main difference between them and the wide range of other classes is that the other are ranging from roamers capable of taking on mirages to meta zerger that's meh against roamers to what-the-kitten-even-is-that-build, while the mirage will be running an optimised roaming build.

    Just because it is op, does not mean everyone wants to flock to a build carry. Besides, Mesmer has among the most expensive gear to make. Tbh, probably the no. 1 reason they are the way they are...

    Uh... what? Most expensive gear to make? Its WvW, the armor is literally free, everyone and their grandma is rocking legendary or ascended weapons and trinkets are cheap as dirt to get.

    Also, everyone seems to flock to spellbreakers, firebrands and scourges easily enough. Same reason people are sticking to druids and daredevils. Your argument is nonsensical. Everyone most definetly flock to what is op.

    Unless you are saying that mesmers have more integrity than the average person and thats why they really arent that common, they dont want to be op.

    Wait what?

    Apparently you have not made a 350g (~2k gems > 20usd) armor/rune/sigil set for the most op Mesmer, that is just to change the build. 350g for the armor mastery (500), 350 gold to make the armor, 350 gold for trailblazer stats, 60 gold for perplexity runes. Oh yea, purchase pof and weapons......... Yea, trinkets are cheap (200 gems to start) , but the armor and runes are not. I already have a tb set with perplexity runes. You could argue that it is not necessary to use trailblazer, that there are cheaper builds that are good in a zerg. But to the most op roamer, who wants to zerg also, TB is absolutely necessary. If the player only has one set of armor, then changing to suit scourge, well you get the idea. Maybe we should hand blinders out to everyone, they seem to work well for build carry loving critics. Anyway, the game is what it is, there is no changing it. Light classes are op for money, less heavy, more light and medium. We see it, so lets move on...

    Only in the gw2 forums can you follow a string of replies that go from "I play power mirage, what is my role in WvW?" to "Condi mirage has expensive gear. Therefore not many play it even though it is op".
    You guys are arguing past each other. Condi mirage has nothing to do with the OPs post. In fact, he didn't even ask about power mirage being op. In case you guys are confused, I suggest you look at who you quoted, who they quoted, and who they quoted, etc. seeing why they posted or quoted along the way. You guys look like your just making assumptions of what the last person meant in their post without reading all the actual previou

    His post was about expense, the thread is about op. If you want to calculate for power, in my previous statement replace tb with zerker/marauder and perplexity for scholar. Anyway, these post go so far and stretch so wide as to confuse casual readers. The point is, Mesmer is a seemingly god like roamer that is as fast as a thief but with 2 times the attack and two times the armor. Same can be said for scourge in zergs, "like an arrow cart on steroids."...

    1. His post was questioning weather mesmer roaming gear was expensive when all the replies before him started with power mirage. And no, this topic has nothing to do with what the original poster asked.
    2. No kitten, everyone knows you can calculate price on other builds by switching out/in runes and armor types. I just think its funny that this post started on power and you used trailblazer in your cost calculations. Everyone knows trailblazer is a hell of a lot more expensive then zerk. And what? Since you mention thieves in your post, your saying thief roamers use gear that is soooo much cheaper than power mirage?
    3. "The point is, Mesmer is a seemingly god like roamer that is as fast as a thief but with 2 times the attack and two times the armor. Same can be said for scourge in zergs, "like an arrow cart on steroids."..."
    You made the claim, prove it. 2 times the attack you say. So, its exactly 2, not 1.5 or 1.3? Also kind of a vague sentence. Everyone knows that thief has god like sustain compared to a class that is only able to burst every 12 sec. If you question this, look up the dps of thieves compared to a power mesmer without phantasms (since they are shattered). 2 x the armor? How?, please explain. I thought they both usually use a mixture of marauders and zerker. Is there some kind of exclusive mesmer armor that I am not aware of?

    As I said earlier, mirage is a Mesmer spec so we are in the right place... The quote was from Grim, a prominent driver on mag. Maybe 3 weeks old. By the way, nice Mesmer avatar. Anyway, that made a nice ribbon. I'm out.

    Yes I like comms, but sadly I'm allergic to them.

  • Xstein.2187Xstein.2187 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 28, 2017

    @ToPNoP.2493 said:

    @Xstein.2187 said:

    @ToPNoP.2493 said:

    @Xstein.2187 said:

    @ToPNoP.2493 said:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @ToPNoP.2493 said:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Kyon.9735 said:
    Mirage has the best tools for a roamer and is very easy to use even for casuals as long as they put a little time learning the rotations. IMO only delusional people can straight up say it's balanced.

    And yet if it's that easy and forgiving why isnt WvW absolutely swarming with mesmers? How many do you really meet in a day of roaming? What's the percentage of encounters compared to other classes? Anyone keeping track? Because it would be really interesting to see the statistics across a week, day by day, on how many unique mirages you meet (repeat encounters still only count as one of course, no matter the class).

    My guess would be mirages account for like... 5% of what you meet in a day. And that the main difference between them and the wide range of other classes is that the other are ranging from roamers capable of taking on mirages to meta zerger that's meh against roamers to what-the-kitten-even-is-that-build, while the mirage will be running an optimised roaming build.

    Just because it is op, does not mean everyone wants to flock to a build carry. Besides, Mesmer has among the most expensive gear to make. Tbh, probably the no. 1 reason they are the way they are...

    Uh... what? Most expensive gear to make? Its WvW, the armor is literally free, everyone and their grandma is rocking legendary or ascended weapons and trinkets are cheap as dirt to get.

    Also, everyone seems to flock to spellbreakers, firebrands and scourges easily enough. Same reason people are sticking to druids and daredevils. Your argument is nonsensical. Everyone most definetly flock to what is op.

    Unless you are saying that mesmers have more integrity than the average person and thats why they really arent that common, they dont want to be op.

    Wait what?

    Apparently you have not made a 350g (~2k gems > 20usd) armor/rune/sigil set for the most op Mesmer, that is just to change the build. 350g for the armor mastery (500), 350 gold to make the armor, 350 gold for trailblazer stats, 60 gold for perplexity runes. Oh yea, purchase pof and weapons......... Yea, trinkets are cheap (200 gems to start) , but the armor and runes are not. I already have a tb set with perplexity runes. You could argue that it is not necessary to use trailblazer, that there are cheaper builds that are good in a zerg. But to the most op roamer, who wants to zerg also, TB is absolutely necessary. If the player only has one set of armor, then changing to suit scourge, well you get the idea. Maybe we should hand blinders out to everyone, they seem to work well for build carry loving critics. Anyway, the game is what it is, there is no changing it. Light classes are op for money, less heavy, more light and medium. We see it, so lets move on...

    Only in the gw2 forums can you follow a string of replies that go from "I play power mirage, what is my role in WvW?" to "Condi mirage has expensive gear. Therefore not many play it even though it is op".
    You guys are arguing past each other. Condi mirage has nothing to do with the OPs post. In fact, he didn't even ask about power mirage being op. In case you guys are confused, I suggest you look at who you quoted, who they quoted, and who they quoted, etc. seeing why they posted or quoted along the way. You guys look like your just making assumptions of what the last person meant in their post without reading all the actual previou

    His post was about expense, the thread is about op. If you want to calculate for power, in my previous statement replace tb with zerker/marauder and perplexity for scholar. Anyway, these post go so far and stretch so wide as to confuse casual readers. The point is, Mesmer is a seemingly god like roamer that is as fast as a thief but with 2 times the attack and two times the armor. Same can be said for scourge in zergs, "like an arrow cart on steroids."...

    1. His post was questioning weather mesmer roaming gear was expensive when all the replies before him started with power mirage. And no, this topic has nothing to do with what the original poster asked.
    2. No kitten, everyone knows you can calculate price on other builds by switching out/in runes and armor types. I just think its funny that this post started on power and you used trailblazer in your cost calculations. Everyone knows trailblazer is a hell of a lot more expensive then zerk. And what? Since you mention thieves in your post, your saying thief roamers use gear that is soooo much cheaper than power mirage?
    3. "The point is, Mesmer is a seemingly god like roamer that is as fast as a thief but with 2 times the attack and two times the armor. Same can be said for scourge in zergs, "like an arrow cart on steroids."..."
    You made the claim, prove it. 2 times the attack you say. So, its exactly 2, not 1.5 or 1.3? Also kind of a vague sentence. Everyone knows that thief has god like sustain compared to a class that is only able to burst every 12 sec. If you question this, look up the dps of thieves compared to a power mesmer without phantasms (since they are shattered). 2 x the armor? How?, please explain. I thought they both usually use a mixture of marauders and zerker. Is there some kind of exclusive mesmer armor that I am not aware of?

    As I said earlier, mirage is a Mesmer spec so we are in the right place... The quote was from Grim, a prominent driver on mag. Maybe 3 weeks old. By the way, nice Mesmer avatar. Anyway, that made a nice ribbon. I'm out.

    Welp, as they say, if your argument is defeated, you can always just point at the opponents avatar.

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