Role of mesmer in WvW?

Hello everyone,Posting to get some clarification on what the "expected" role is for a mesmer in WvW. I'm still very new to the environment and want to make sure I'm doing something meaningful for my world. As I understand it, mesmers make great roamers, i.e. flipping caps and taking down those singular guards. They're often good at picking off stragglers on larger blobs. But I was once assigned in a zerg to stick next to the commander and guard him as I was told they were great for that. That was a bit different, but I liked it. It was also a role I didn't know about. Are there any other things mesmers can be useful for? I am currently playing a Power Mirage.Thanks for reading.

Troll people by repeatedly farming their loot bags until they come to this forum and cry “NERF!”

you can get people inside objectives with portal even if all walls and gates are closed. but for hiding in them you either need luck or a thief friend that is good at playing hide and seek.in zergs you mostly just spamm boonshare and veil bot. a gravity well can also be very deadly when placed correctly or classic moa to focus enemy commander. and sometimes, very rare your commander might want to suprise your opponent with a portalbomb wich will end mostly with your zerg wiping (not sure if that is being useful then)if you only port in a spellbreaker for a bubble might be better use.there are also alot of shortcuts in objectives and outside with blink, that not every class has access too so you can put up QoL ports, tho mostly Scourges are used for that as there is a target limit on port and you often got more scourges than mesmers and might not get everyone through one portal.

Subterfuge.

@"Rysdude.3824" said:Hello everyone,Posting to get some clarification on what the "expected" role is for a mesmer in WvW. I'm still very new to the environment and want to make sure I'm doing something meaningful for my world. As I understand it, mesmers make great roamers, i.e. flipping caps and taking down those singular guards. They're often good at picking off stragglers on larger blobs. But I was once assigned in a zerg to stick next to the commander and guard him as I was told they were great for that. That was a bit different, but I liked it. It was also a role I didn't know about. Are there any other things mesmers can be useful for? I am currently playing a Power Mirage.Thanks for reading.

Condi mesmers are among the best roamers because trailblazer stats are so powerful. Some groups still take a single minstrel support chrono in GvGs because a well placed gravity well inside a warrior dome can win the round easily. However, since the recent balance patch nerfed distortion share, and because firebroken (firebrand*) is so powerful, I would say support chrono has fallen out of meta.

@Arlette.9684 said:Troll people by repeatedly farming their loot bags until they come to this forum and cry “NERF!”

so 1 v 1 with any class and one shotting them (even full tank classes with 32khp and almost 4000 toughness) is working as intended... right..

yes.. mesmers need a nerf and you know it.. it takes no skill to stealth in.. shatter all your clones and run away a winner.

Mesmers do need an AoE buff to make them actually compedative in large scale play but they are definetly king of roamers now as there is no risk and all reward with the new one shot kill build.

@trueanimus.4085 said:

@"Arlette.9684" said:Troll people by repeatedly farming their loot bags until they come to this forum and cry “NERF!”

Better yet, remove this counterfeit mesmer entirely

This is The Mesmer who was forcibly replaced by Gw2 counterfeit mesmer.

https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Mesmer

@trueanimus.4085 said:

@Arlette.9684 said:Troll people by repeatedly farming their loot bags until they come to this forum and cry “NERF!”

So let me get this straight, you are complaining that power Mesmer is OP. On every other thread people are complaining that Condi Mesmer is OP. Geez guys, which one is it? You can’t nerf all specs cuz they’re OP. At that point you might as well just scrap the profession and start anew.

And let me tell you, ANet is not going to scrap it and start over.

You wanna prove your point about no risk and all reward?Make a mesmer, play it. Shoot a video of how EZ mode it is and post a link. Until then... shhhhhh.

@Burnfall.9573. wich would end with +90% of the current mesmer players QQ they cant play the class... because requires way more thinking.No stealth, no clones, just pure skill, kite and know how to beat the other builds, know how to pressure with hexes and wich hex, know how to teamwork with condis, rather than easy spam with no effort pressure targets nor skill, know when enemy is hidding energy, interrupt instant skills ;)...????? it would be madness even for most of the gw2 hardcore players...

Gw2 is for bad players.

@Arlette.9684 said:

@trueanimus.4085 said:

@Arlette.9684 said:Troll people by repeatedly farming their loot bags until they come to this forum and cry “NERF!”

The no-risk high reward might have been an exaggeration to some extent. Mesmers need to trade mobility/damage/daze utility for a decent cleanse. Despite that, Mesmer (more specifically Mirage) is the most forgiving class in WvW right now on a roamer's perspective. Even more forgiving than Spellbreakers after the changes to Last Stand and Full Counter.

Energy Sigils, 40% Endurance regen food, and Elusive Mind. Also, please stop exaggerating how hard it is to press a couple of buttons to burst someone down. Even if a Mirage wasn't able to straight up 100-0 someone's HP, they already have the advantage as their target has to pop a lot of their defensive cooldowns and will be forced to play defensively which is already considered a win for a glass build since you won't be taking much return pressure.

• Stunbreak on evade.
• Access to Invulnerability.
• Lots of evasion frames due to easily abused dodge mechanics because of Food and Sigils (can even use Adventurer runes to further abuse it).
• Access to Stealth.
• Great Mobility.
• Great Burst.
• Decent cleanse at the expense of an offensive utility skill.

Mirage has the best tools for a roamer and is very easy to use even for casuals as long as they put a little time learning the rotations. IMO only delusional people can straight up say it's balanced.

@Arlette.9684 said:Troll people by repeatedly farming their loot bags until they come to this forum and cry “NERF!”

So if one can't dent a toon with every 'trick' we have at our disposal that's balance?

Three people can't take down some toons and that's everything from mesmers, warriors and thieves...

That is not balance in any way.

Role? Doesn't matter, you can walk on water - the rest of us just have to make sure we are in groups of three or more - and that's notgoing to happen in many time zones.

@Arlette.9684 said:

@trueanimus.4085 said:

@Arlette.9684 said:Troll people by repeatedly farming their loot bags until they come to this forum and cry “NERF!”

They are both OP. I'm actually collecting clips on a condition Mesmer. First time ever playing a Mesmer but I'm easily beating people 1v1 and winning 1v2s and 1v3s or forcing them to run away. It is easy mode, no doubt about it.

@Oozo.7856 said:

@Arlette.9684 said:

@trueanimus.4085 said:

@Arlette.9684 said:Troll people by repeatedly farming their loot bags until they come to this forum and cry “NERF!”

And I got to beta test Elon Musk's Mars shuttle last night. It was one hell of a ride I tell ya. First time piloting a space craft, but man it's easy... I was thinking about doing the Kessel run next, see if I can beat Han Solo's record.

@Kyon.9735 said:Mirage has the best tools for a roamer and is very easy to use even for casuals as long as they put a little time learning the rotations. IMO only delusional people can straight up say it's balanced.And yet if it's that easy and forgiving why isnt WvW absolutely swarming with mesmers? How many do you really meet in a day of roaming? What's the percentage of encounters compared to other classes? Anyone keeping track? Because it would be really interesting to see the statistics across a week, day by day, on how many unique mirages you meet (repeat encounters still only count as one of course, no matter the class).

My guess would be mirages account for like... 5% of what you meet in a day. And that the main difference between them and the wide range of other classes is that the other are ranging from roamers capable of taking on mirages to meta zerger that's meh against roamers to what-the-kitten-even-is-that-build, while the mirage will be running an optimised roaming build.

I run across mostly thieves, mesmers and warriors when roaming. After that, holosmiths and soulbeasts/druids. I posted these on the Mesmer forum in a PU thread for the Elon Musk test pilot.

Forgive any poor gameplay by me since these fights are literally from my first two days playing mesmer.

These are unlisted, I just put them up so a few friends could see what the playstyle is like. Mesmer is the easiest low risk/high reward class that I have personally played. Second on that list is thief.

@Arlette.9684 said:

@Oozo.7856 said:

@Arlette.9684 said:

@trueanimus.4085 said:

@Arlette.9684 said:Troll people by repeatedly farming their loot bags until they come to this forum and cry “NERF!”

One shot everything. What else??

@Oozo.7856 said:I run across mostly thieves, mesmers and warriors when roaming. After that, holosmiths and soulbeasts/druids. I posted these on the Mesmer forum in a PU thread for the Elon Musk test pilot.

Forgive any poor gameplay by me since these fights are literally from my first two days playing mesmer.

@Simonoly.4352 said:

@Oozo.7856 said:I run across mostly thieves, mesmers and warriors when roaming. After that, holosmiths and soulbeasts/druids. I posted these on the Mesmer forum in a PU thread for the Elon Musk test pilot.

Forgive any poor gameplay by me since these fights are literally from my first two days playing mesmer.

pretty much this!

The holosmith left his cleanse at home, oh wait that's right... he ain't got any. Or was that Revenant? :wink:Words alone are not enough to express how god awful that thief is. Considering your buds on Discord were also laughing their rears off I imagine you had an idea about that one already. But hey it's HoD, that's just the best they can do.And don't even get me started on the Deadeye :lol:

You get a B for effort, at least.Now if you want to prove a point, please try with semi-competent players next time.

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Kyon.9735 said:Mirage has the best tools for a roamer and is very easy to use even for casuals as long as they put a little time learning the rotations. IMO only delusional people can straight up say it's balanced.And yet if it's that easy and forgiving why isnt WvW absolutely swarming with mesmers? How many do you really meet in a day of roaming? What's the percentage of encounters compared to other classes? Anyone keeping track? Because it would be really interesting to see the statistics across a week, day by day, on how many unique mirages you meet (repeat encounters still only count as one of course, no matter the class).

Just because it is op, does not mean everyone wants to flock to a build carry. Besides, Mesmer has among the most expensive gear to make. Tbh, probably the no. 1 reason they are the way they are...

Hi,

@"Arlette.9684" said:So let me get this straight, you are complaining that power Mesmer is OP. On every other thread people are complaining that Condi Mesmer is OP. Geez guys, which one is it? You can’t nerf all specs cuz they’re OP. At that point you might as well just scrap the profession and start anew.

Do you think that mirage is balanced, and that condi mirage is high risk high reward? It's perfectly fine if that's your opinion.

What follows is just mine, which you are of course free to not share. I've been roaming as a warrior (both power and condi) since 2012, with occasional pauses. However I've played all classes more or less consistently, because it helps to fight against them, and paid special attention to mesmer over time, as it is one hard counter for my main (plus I find it fun to play). Currently:

• Power mesmer remains high risk high reward, especially when you go Domination,
• Condi mesmer (esp. mirage) remains low-to-mid risk high reward, a bit more difficult to play than in the past, but not by much.
• And there are some rare hybrid oddballs which are a pain to deal with and harder to evaluate.

In expert hands though, any decent build is either lethal or unkillable. That's not a criticism of the class, I feel that all classes have cheese builds, all classes have overpowered traits, especially with a fresh xpac (gotta make things fun for PvE). Also, I've only played about 10 hours of various mirages so far, so I need more training, and might adjust my current evaluation after a couple more.

I remember when I played mesmer for the first time (a chaos condi build with clone dissipation traits). I 1v2'd a warrior and necro, killing the warrior and routing the necro, and was quite perplexed because I did not even know what I was doing (clones were working for me, but I hadn't realized).

You wanna prove your point about no risk and all reward?Make a mesmer, play it. Shoot a video of how EZ mode it is and post a link. Until then... shhhhhh.

With all due respect, once someone does it, people will always jump in to say "wow look at how bad the opponents are", so it's pretty useless. People aren't fair and don't want to be fair, especially when they do not multiclass and perceive posts against their class as a personal attack. I have no opinion on that, it's a game after all and I actually like that people get emotional about it, as long as they stay respectful of other players (which unfortunately seems to have become increasingly rare in GW2).

To be honest though, I feel that the overall fighting level in WvW has dropped quite a bit since... a long time now. New players have come with xpacs, which is a very good thing, but they don't train much (in terms of combat as well as fighting tactics) and are usually easy kills outside of their zergs. I don't mind facing such players (/thanks), but when they're your allies, that can make me /cry.

Happy gaming.

@ToPNoP.2493 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Kyon.9735 said:Mirage has the best tools for a roamer and is very easy to use even for casuals as long as they put a little time learning the rotations. IMO only delusional people can straight up say it's balanced.And yet if it's that easy and forgiving why isnt WvW absolutely swarming with mesmers? How many do you really meet in a day of roaming? What's the percentage of encounters compared to other classes? Anyone keeping track? Because it would be really interesting to see the statistics across a week, day by day, on how many unique mirages you meet (repeat encounters still only count as one of course, no matter the class).

Also, everyone seems to flock to spellbreakers, firebrands and scourges easily enough. Same reason people are sticking to druids and daredevils. Your argument is nonsensical. Everyone most definetly flock to what is op.

Unless you are saying that mesmers have more integrity than the average person and thats why they really arent that common, they dont want to be op.

Wait what?

Condi mesmer (chrono or mirage) is still one to avoid in nearly all aspects of roaming from an opponent's standpoint. Mirage wins because apply condis and go invulnerable. The annoyance part for mesmers is that most classes simply run away because if they don't they die.

Condi mesmer = iWin against most 1v1 if you consider allowing them getting away = win

Power mirage has huge mobility but relies entirely on a once every 12s burst rotation unless you are teaming with someone because of your level of CC. It really is probably the best teammate/duo to always have around because of the amount of CCs and shared boons/stealth.

Zerg/Power chrono or mirage = brings CC and AoE CC and oh yeah, boons and more soft CC.

@"Artaz.3819" said:Condi mesmer = iWin against most 1v1 if you consider allowing them getting away = winWhich is the same we say for all the other builds?Sustain druid, iWin against most 1v1 they can lock down and outheal.Zerker spellbreaker, iWin against most 1v1 period.Cancer scourge, iWin against most 1v1 that cant cleanse or kite.Teleporting d/p daredevil, iWin against most 1v1 they can disengage.Sustain weaver, iWin against most 1v1 they can outheal.Burn firebrand, iWin against most 1v1 because people still havent learn how to cleanse.Zerker holosmith, iWin against most 1v1 that doesnt bring tons of stunbreak/stab.

Etc and so on.

Against most that doesnt bring any condi cleanse, the condi mesmer is just as strong as any other condi, yes. However, it has a pretty glaring flaw that several of the other "iWin" builds are much, much better at while still being as good at 1v1 (spellbreaker most notably) - they are crap when fighting outnumbered against equally skilled or better opponents that brought good builds. The better people can cover each other with condi cleanse, the weaker it become when its measly two conditions fail (literally nothing compared to a condi vomitting scourge), it become toothless and unable to pressure its foes. You can overcome it somewhat by a glassy build but well... thats glassy. Good at PvP, not really good at WvW. Power really is the better duo (or more), yes.

Hey Rysdude! So when I’m usually in WvW I tend to lead a small “infiltration” team of Mesmers and our main duties are mostly getting into keeps and porting the current commander and their Zerg inside, taking small camps and acting as scouts. :)

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@ToPNoP.2493 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Kyon.9735 said:Mirage has the best tools for a roamer and is very easy to use even for casuals as long as they put a little time learning the rotations. IMO only delusional people can straight up say it's balanced.And yet if it's that easy and forgiving why isnt WvW absolutely swarming with mesmers? How many do you really meet in a day of roaming? What's the percentage of encounters compared to other classes? Anyone keeping track? Because it would be really interesting to see the statistics across a week, day by day, on how many unique mirages you meet (repeat encounters still only count as one of course, no matter the class).

I change my armor around constantly, so this matters little to me, but.Apparently you have not made a 350g (~2k gems > 20usd) armor/rune/sigil set for the most op Mesmer/Mirage, that is just to change the build. 350g for the armor mastery (500), 350 gold to make the armor, 350 gold for trailblazer stats, 60 gold for perplexity runes. Oh yea, purchase pof and weapons......... Yea, trinkets are cheap (200 gems to start the quest for each of the reward tracks) , but the armor and runes are not. I already have a tb set with perplexity runes. You could argue that it is not necessary to use trailblazer, that there are cheaper builds that are good in a zerg. But to the most op roamer, who wants to zerg also, TB is absolutely necessary. If the player only has one set of armor, then changing to suit from scourge, well you get the idea. Maybe we should hand blinders out to everyone, they seem to work well for build carry loving critics. Anyway, the game is what it is, there is no changing it. Light classes are op for money, less heavy, more light and medium. We see it, so lets move on...