Soulless Horror: Alternate Strats?

More so than the other fights in the game, Soulless Horror feels like my groups/statics are missing something (me as well). With all the random required moving; it's really hard to do anything (damage, CC, golem control) consistently.

Our only successful pull on it was a pretty standard comp (dual chrono, dual healer, war, dps) with a half-heal druid quickdrawing longbow 4 for golems. Tanking edges and pushing golems out best we could. And even that was like pulling teeth.

So I'd really like to hear what's been working and maybe not working on this boss. What are some pushing builds/strats? Where are you tanking and why?As the golem aims for the off-tank; has anyone tried splitting the party and doing ranged dps for half of the fight?

There is a lot of minor things people miss on this fight which make a huge difference when added up:

1.) add control is of major importance. The obvious one which many people still get wrong. You don't need 10 people pushing the add, you only need 2 who are competent and a group that does not go gun ho and kills the add the moment it spawns.

1.a.) try to avoid staying in the center if you are kicking the add to the outside. Being on top of its spawn increases the chance for people killing it accidentally

1.b.) the add will run to the off tank. Use this knowledge to your advantage. Have the off tank stay slightly behind the group. This helps with reducing damage to him too while his stacks expire

1.c.) bad add death positioning WILL catch up to you later during the fight. That wall which killed you because it forced you to run through a red condition circle will 90% of the time be bad add positioning from earlier of that fight

2.) tanks need to work on alacrity and quickness up time to improve raid dps. This seems obvious but trust me, it takes a while to get used to providing decent amount of alacrity and quickness to the group in this fight. Especially when you are concerned with those walls. Chronos should take TW and not Moa. The defiance bar is very small and it's better to use TW regularly to keep quickness up time high

3.) have a dedicated wall caller if on voice chat, especially if a wall spawns badly. This helps a lot with inexperienced groups where players do not have the timings down to muscle memory

4.) tanks main job is positioning of the group. It's imperative that the tanks move early so people who are not paying attention are warned that a wall is coming. Tanks should not move or move as little as possible if a wall does not require it

5.) tanking along the outside of the inner circle has worked well for my groups. You can't tank to far to the outside or you cut your reaction time to walls to short, to far to the center leads to more adds dying early. Re-positioning between walls and adds to the other side of the small arena if need be can help with visibility and evasion but also adds risk of more red aoe clutter if adds are improperly handled

6.) 1 scourge/necro should be there for epidemic. Early in the fight for worm clear, later for easy add control. Epi to early though, and the add will be dying on the group, epi to late and the add might have been pushed out already with no conditions on it

7.) tanks alternating on 3 stacks (around when the debuff expires) has worked best for me with PUG groups

Minstrel FB and Trailblazer Necro tanks can do a lot to simplify tanking and healing in this fight.

Running a Ventari renegade, Minstrel FB and trailblazer Scourge all in one group so you can focus the heals where the majority of the damage is going can free up your chrono to actually do some damage and reduce the healing stress on your druid, which should allow them to focus on add control.

Trailblazer scourge loses less than 10% of his damage to become unbelievably tanky.

Using viper scourge, minstrel chrono, minstrel chrono, heal druid, heal druid(30k, 2k, 2k, 2k, 2k)Vs

TB scourge, minstrel FB, heal druid, heal ren, zerk chrono(27k, 2k, 2k, 2k, 10k) while providing a far easier time for the tanks between blocks and mass condi clear. And a far easier time for the druid and chrono who are typically tasked with add management.

I agree with cyninja, I actually have a couple of tips to add further.

1. Expanding on what was said before about not standing in the middle, if you have any power dps, especially holos and DH, I would strongly advise swapping them for a good single target condi dps. The cleave on those 2 classes lol can almost kill the golems before they spawn. From my experience golems are usually the most common contributer to wiping.

2. My second advice is that like cairn good dps I believe carries this fight harder than a good chrono. Condi Mirages are especially good here, unlike just about every other class, they are already the highest dps here and they lose almost 0 dps from avoiding walls because of jaunt.

3. Nobody hates minstrels chrono more than me. But yeaahhh stacking that toughness and vitality is so important here, if the other chrono dies at 10% and you're in zerk you're probably screwed. Even VG's autos seem trivial compared to SH's imo.

4. My smoothest kills have always been with a heal ele, I don't really want to advocate it but it might be worth trying if you're still really struggling.

These are just the things I've noticed, I think that soon we will find some way to cheese this xD

You can try using hammer DH to push golems. Very good CC with an on-demand immobilize. DPS is bad of course, but as long as it's only 1 person, you can get away with it easily.You can also try out necro portals to skip the bigger walls. Unfortunately, the portals are super difficult to see, but I suppose you can get used to it.

@Knox.8962 said:Minstrel FB and Trailblazer Necro tanks can do a lot to simplify tanking and healing in this fight.

Running a Ventari renegade, Minstrel FB and trailblazer Scourge all in one group so you can focus the heals where the majority of the damage is going can free up your chrono to actually do some damage and reduce the healing stress on your druid, which should allow them to focus on add control.

Trailblazer scourge loses less than 10% of his damage to become unbelievably tanky.

Using viper scourge, minstrel chrono, minstrel chrono, heal druid, heal druid(30k, 2k, 2k, 2k, 2k)Vs

TB scourge, minstrel FB, heal druid, heal ren, zerk chrono(27k, 2k, 2k, 2k, 10k) while providing a far easier time for the tanks between blocks and mass condi clear. And a far easier time for the druid and chrono who are typically tasked with add management.

Unless you got a benchmark for trailblazer scourge (which there isnt one). You should stop spreading around things you simply can not prove.

And it's not 'unbelievably tanky'. Toughness necro's die all the time. That's the other problem with trailblazer mind you, necro as a class needs some vitality to get optimal tankiness. That why trailblazer necro's in wvw also run carrion peices.

@FrostDraco.8306 said:

@"Knox.8962" said:Minstrel FB and Trailblazer Necro tanks can do a lot to simplify tanking and healing in this fight.

Running a Ventari renegade, Minstrel FB and trailblazer Scourge all in one group so you can focus the heals where the majority of the damage is going can free up your chrono to actually do some damage and reduce the healing stress on your druid, which should allow them to focus on add control.

Trailblazer scourge loses less than 10% of his damage to become unbelievably tanky.

Using viper scourge, minstrel chrono, minstrel chrono, heal druid, heal druid(30k, 2k, 2k, 2k, 2k)Vs

TB scourge, minstrel FB, heal druid, heal ren, zerk chrono(27k, 2k, 2k, 2k, 10k) while providing a far easier time for the tanks between blocks and mass condi clear. And a far easier time for the druid and chrono who are typically tasked with add management.

I already posted this in the other thread, but I may as well stick it here to make sure you catch it. Perhaps you missed the fact that trailblazer gear does have vitality on it and a Trailblazer Necro has over 27k HP?

Comparing the Viper Necro and Tankromancer is pretty simple. Using the following assumptions:

25 Might, 6 conditions on the target (12% crit chance via Target the Weak), Spotter, Pinpoint, EA, Banner of Strength, Banner of Discipline, 2 Shades up

Viper Build:

• Power - 3243 = 2173 + 750 + 150 + 170
• Crit - 82.38% = (1633 + 150 + 170 - 895(base crit))/2100 + 20% + 12%
• Crit Damage - 168% = (100 + 2250(base crit dmg) + 170)/1500
• Eff. Power - 5059.7 = 3243 x (82.38% x 68% + 1)
• Condi Damage - 2999 = 1929 + 150 + 170 + 750
• Bleeding 1s Base - 432.2 = (22 + 0.06 x 2999)(1+100%) 1.07 (renegade rune)
• Torment 1s Base - 388.9 = (22 + 0.06 x 2999)(1+80%) 1.07 (renegade rune)
• Burning 1s Base - 1147.6 = (131 + 0.155 x 2999)(1+80%) 1.07 (renegade rune)
• Poison 1s Base - 411.1 = (33.5 + 0.06 x 2999)(1+80%) 1.07 (renegade rune)

Tank Scourge:

• Power - 2070 = 1000 + 750 + 150 + 170
• Crit - 53.86% = (1034 + 150 + 170 - 895(base crit))/2100 + 20% + 12%
• Crit Damage - 161.33% = (0 + 2250(base crit dmg) + 170)/1500
• Eff. Power - 2753.8 = 2070 x (53.86% x 61.33% + 1)
• Condi Damage - 3091 = 2021 + 150 + 170 + 750
• Bleeding 1s Base - 414.9 = (22 + 0.06 x 3091)*(1+100%)
• Torment 1s Base - 373.4 = (22 + 0.06 x 3091)*(1+80%)
• Burning 1s Base - 1098.2 = (131 + 0.155 x 3091)*(1+80%)
• Poison 1s Base - 394.1 = (33.5 + 0.06 x 3091)*(1+80%)

Comparing the two, you can see that the Tankromancer does the following % of Viper Scourge damage:

• Eff. Power - 54.43% = 5059.7/2753.8
• Bleeding - 96.01% = 432.2/414.9
• Torment - 96.01% = 388.9/373.4
• Burning - 95.69% = 1147.6/1098.2
• Poison - 95.87% = 411.1/394.1

Using

• Bleeding - 36.63%
• Torment - 28.62%
• Burning - 16.15%
• Poison - 5.95%
• Minion - 1.34%
• Everything Else - 11.31%
• Total - 100%

Scaling Farbstoff's Numbers by the Scalings calculated above you get the following:

• Bleeding - 35.17%
• Torment - 27.48%
• Burning - 15.45%
• Poison - 5.70%
• Minion - 1.34%
• Everything Else - 6.16%
• Total - 91.303%

That's a net loss of 8.697% DPS going from full viper to full tank necro.

1. Avoid fighting in the middle
2. Have a person call out adds and walls prematurely to remind others, possibly the druid using longbow
3. Use Point Blank Shot with Quick Draw
4. Use Glyth of the Tides for backup or as a setup since PBS is a projectile that may end up getting blocked
5. Use Ancient Seeds trait over Grace of the Land if the might is not needed
6. Use chronomancer pulls as a backup
7. Don't panic if you miss one add, you can deal with one misplaced field
8. Watch Epidemic usage on your scourges
9. Watch AoE usage in general
10. Make sure people pay attention

This got us through the CM in a few tries. Not to mention how much easier the normal clear became. I have to admit that I never even noticed who the adds aim for for the longest of time since we always pushed or pulled it instantly. There is really no need to go crazy with changing the class composition because of this fight alone.

Use 3 druids, 1 healer, 2 pusher with LB and glyph, you push them always out! The scurge can use portal if somehow a big wall comes, he calls out the wall, and it's ez, even CM is best way this way! Druids are using piercing arrows as trait!If you stay on mid then the walls will be smaller, if you stay at edge the walls become more and more bigger! That's it!

3 druids is overkill

If the double druid thing is not working for you either improve or run a safer comp. Use builds with little cleave and use a power druid for pushing and killing the add. Boon druid+ tempest with an epi for the add also works.

Also if pushes get interrupted its prolly chrono shield 5 stunning the add.

1 druid with Marksmanship (for Lead the Wind) & Glyph of Tides. You can camp longbow during all fight (put a sigil of water on hit to help with CA generation) and go in CA between spawns to help with heal & cleanse. Ask warrior to provide furry or use furry pet, a rock gazelle for CC phase if you don't trust your team (NEVER use your LB #4 or Glyph for CC). Place yourself between the center and your team. When golem spawn, let him walk then use Glyph of Tides, walk towards him while shooting the #4 LB (to get the range bonus). The golem's respawn timer is long enough to have both LB #4 and Glyph available for next golem (Glyph cooldown can help you to time the next golem spawn). Ask scourge to use epidemic around the time you cast LB #4 (very important : if too soon, golem will die on group, if too late, golem will have time to walk back to group). People should not use CC skill (Tides of Times from chrono is the worst offender) when golem is pushed through the group to prevent the LB #4 to be overridden. If you need a backup, a chrono can take a focus or a warrior can take Wild Blow.

Thanks for all the suggestions. This is turning into a useful thread.

My group did manage to kill her again. We ran with two main healers, two wars, a necro, 3 dps, and a double longbow druid for pushing. Our biggest golem problem that night was immobilize snagging him in the middle of a push. We're not sure where it was coming from at this point. Something passive maybe, as Wars stopped using Pin Down in rotation. :/

For walls, this is one of those fights where setting your minimap to rotate with you is helpful. Less thinking about which cardinal direction you're facing and more "oh that wall is coming from the left".

If you can bring two warriors for banners, Sundering Leap is nice for the open utility slot. Early vuln stacking and a solid help getting around nasty walls.