Do You Raid? - Page 3 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Do You Raid?

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  • IndigoSundown.5419IndigoSundown.5419 Member ✭✭✭✭
    No, not interested.

    Forumites can debate numbers all we want. I suspect ANet has more interesting numbers, which they are not sharing.

    • How much revenue (exclusive of XPac purchases) do players who raid regularly provide?
    • How many new paying players (since HoT) now raid?

    Those are the numbers I'd like to see. For that matter, I'd also like to see:

    • How much revenue (exclusive of XPac purchases) comes from players who avoid raids?

    Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. -- Santayana

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Other (State your thought).

    But I still stand by what I said.. it's pretty sad that even among the community that clamored for more challenging content.. only 20% of them do it regularly. I given the ruckus that as raised, I would have expected at least majority would have voted yes to enjoying raids at all (Where we have less then 30%)

    There are two kinds of Gamers, Salty, and Extra Salty.
    Ego is the Anesthesia that dullens the pain of Stupidity.

  • @STIHL.2489 said:
    But I still stand by what I said.. it's pretty sad that even among the community that clamored for more challenging content.. only 20% of them do it regularly. I given the ruckus that as raised, I would have expected at least majority would have voted yes to enjoying raids at all (Where we have less then 30%)

    The community that clamored for challenging content was probably about 10% (based on how various gaming studios have discussed metrics), so 20% is quite good.

    I don't think it's remotely possible to argue that even 50% of forum posters asked for raids in any form; if anything, there were that many people against it. (Including, incidentally, myself: I expected all sorts of unexpected problems from raids. Instead, the GW2 implementation is ANet style, providing some unexpected benefits and essentially the same issues we had with Dungeons.)

    Basically, however we measure things, if we compare apples:apples, 20% suggests a successful venture, especially considering the raid team is tiny.

    Hype is the path to the dark side. Hype leads to unfulfilled expectations. Disappointment leads to anger. Anger leads to disgust. Disgust leads to "oh, new shinies! I'm back!"

  • marelooke.9708marelooke.9708 Member ✭✭
    edited January 1, 2018
    Yes, regularly.

    Regularly, it's fun. PUGging often seems to bring up the worst in people though so I tend to avoid that (also one of the reasons I avoid Fractals and only dabble in sPvP). I actually wish bosses were harder so statics would become the norm again (like in the good old pre-LFR WoW days) rather than everyone PUGging everything (and then complaining that it's not as smooth as a well oiled team, go figure)

  • Yes, regularly.

    @STIHL.2489 said:
    But I still stand by what I said.. it's pretty sad that even among the community that clamored for more challenging content.. only 20% of them do it regularly. I given the ruckus that as raised, I would have expected at least majority would have voted yes to enjoying raids at all (Where we have less then 30%)

    What if we look at how many want to raid and/or are interested in raids? That would be "regularly 18%", "sometimes 11%", "no group don't want to pug 12%". Assuming that "no group don't want to pug" means "yes, if I had a group". That ads up to 41% which is not too bad of a number.

    And if we assume that "other 5%" and "No, tried it but didn't work out 12%" have 50/50 interested and not interested ppl we get 49,5% interested and 47,5% not interested. This is based on the assumption that some of these ppl are interested but due to various circumstances are unable to join raids.

    Assumtions aside, I think there is plenty of interest in raids to justify the developement resources put into them. And if I remember right, Anet has stated that they are happy with the raid population, but don't quote me on that.

    And yeah, no idea where the missing 3% is...

  • FrostDraco.8306FrostDraco.8306 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 1, 2018
    Yes, regularly.

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @CptAurellian.9537 said:
    https://gw2efficiency.com/account/statistics/values.summary.value
    There's obviously no precise way to determine activity, but stuff like rank, testimonies of heroics, etc. should at least give a rough impression. They are all just proxies and all have their own limitations, but I'm not aware of a better database that's available to us.

    Wow.. Ok.. this was kinda cool!

    Did you know.. that among 50% of the total population, the average WvW rank is 42.
    and the Average number of Mag shards is 0.

    Draw whatever you want from that.

    You do realize that if I spend my magnetite shards, then it will still be zero...right? You can't sell or deplete wvw rank.

    You literally can't 'draw' any information from this, because there is no comparison to be had there.

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Other (State your thought).

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:
    But I still stand by what I said.. it's pretty sad that even among the community that clamored for more challenging content.. only 20% of them do it regularly. I given the ruckus that as raised, I would have expected at least majority would have voted yes to enjoying raids at all (Where we have less then 30%)

    The community that clamored for challenging content was probably about 10% (based on how various gaming studios have discussed metrics), so 20% is quite good.

    It's 20% of the community that was clamoring.. not the whole game.

    There are two kinds of Gamers, Salty, and Extra Salty.
    Ego is the Anesthesia that dullens the pain of Stupidity.

  • Klipso.8653Klipso.8653 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Yes, sometimes.

    @GDchiaScrub.3241 said:

    @Klipso.8653 said:
    WvW is the true endgame, and should be treated as such. Out of everything it has the most replayability

    I can confirm. When they flip your unmanned tower you can come back and ktrain it back down then leave it unmanned again.

    I'm going to assume that you were playing off hours, or had an inexperienced commander. Ktraining is what tags do when they either have nothing to fight in that time zone, or don't know how to fight.

    -Balwarc [ICoa]

  • @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:
    But I still stand by what I said.. it's pretty sad that even among the community that clamored for more challenging content.. only 20% of them do it regularly. I given the ruckus that as raised, I would have expected at least majority would have voted yes to enjoying raids at all (Where we have less then 30%)

    The community that clamored for challenging content was probably about 10% (based on how various gaming studios have discussed metrics), so 20% is quite good.

    It's 20% of the community that was clamoring.. not the whole game.

    A vocal minority clamored for challenging content. Near as anyone can measure, a larger minority is regularly playing the latest in challenging content.
    There are no tools to measure how many of those who specifically asked (or didn't ask) for raids are participating today.

    Hype is the path to the dark side. Hype leads to unfulfilled expectations. Disappointment leads to anger. Anger leads to disgust. Disgust leads to "oh, new shinies! I'm back!"

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Other (State your thought).

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:
    But I still stand by what I said.. it's pretty sad that even among the community that clamored for more challenging content.. only 20% of them do it regularly. I given the ruckus that as raised, I would have expected at least majority would have voted yes to enjoying raids at all (Where we have less then 30%)

    The community that clamored for challenging content was probably about 10% (based on how various gaming studios have discussed metrics), so 20% is quite good.

    It's 20% of the community that was clamoring.. not the whole game.

    A vocal minority clamored for challenging content. Near as anyone can measure, a larger minority is regularly playing the latest in challenging content.
    There are no tools to measure how many of those who specifically asked (or didn't ask) for raids are participating today.

    What you seem to be deliberately ignoring is that the forum population was that vocal minority and even among them.. raids are a minority.

    Kinda sad. I really did expect higher numbers. I was kinda expecting around 50% to at least tried raids..

    There are two kinds of Gamers, Salty, and Extra Salty.
    Ego is the Anesthesia that dullens the pain of Stupidity.

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 1, 2018
    Other (State your thought).

    @FrostDraco.8306 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @CptAurellian.9537 said:
    https://gw2efficiency.com/account/statistics/values.summary.value
    There's obviously no precise way to determine activity, but stuff like rank, testimonies of heroics, etc. should at least give a rough impression. They are all just proxies and all have their own limitations, but I'm not aware of a better database that's available to us.

    Wow.. Ok.. this was kinda cool!

    Did you know.. that among 50% of the total population, the average WvW rank is 42.
    and the Average number of Mag shards is 0.

    Draw whatever you want from that.

    You do realize that if I spend my magnetite shards, then it will still be zero...right? You can't sell or deplete wvw rank.

    You literally can't 'draw' any information from this, because there is no comparison to be had there.

    Do you really wanna know the numbers on badges of Honor?

    Hint.. it's at 90% it's over 200.

    Wanna what it looks like at 90% for mag shards? .. even those with 4000+ hours.. have ZERO.

    a TON more people WvW then Raid.

    There are two kinds of Gamers, Salty, and Extra Salty.
    Ego is the Anesthesia that dullens the pain of Stupidity.

  • Edds.7681Edds.7681 Member ✭✭
    edited January 1, 2018
    No, tried it but didn't work out.

    dont have 250li/killproof/15000ap for vg

    i did used to raid on my magi druid but everyone believes that magi druids are impossible to raid with now. probably thank the brenchmarks for that one

  • Blue Hare.8612Blue Hare.8612 Member ✭✭
    edited January 1, 2018
    Yes, regularly.

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @FrostDraco.8306 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @CptAurellian.9537 said:
    https://gw2efficiency.com/account/statistics/values.summary.value
    There's obviously no precise way to determine activity, but stuff like rank, testimonies of heroics, etc. should at least give a rough impression. They are all just proxies and all have their own limitations, but I'm not aware of a better database that's available to us.

    Wow.. Ok.. this was kinda cool!

    Did you know.. that among 50% of the total population, the average WvW rank is 42.
    and the Average number of Mag shards is 0.

    Draw whatever you want from that.

    You do realize that if I spend my magnetite shards, then it will still be zero...right? You can't sell or deplete wvw rank.

    You literally can't 'draw' any information from this, because there is no comparison to be had there.

    Do you really wanna know the numbers on badges of Honor?

    Hint.. it's at 90% it's over 200.

    Wanna what it looks like at 90% for mag shards? .. even those with 4000+ hours.. have ZERO.

    a TON more people WvW then Raid.

    I have Badges of Honor and I have never set a foot in WvW. There are other ways to obtain them as well.

  • Exo.2143Exo.2143 Member ✭✭
    Yes, regularly.

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @FrostDraco.8306 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @CptAurellian.9537 said:
    https://gw2efficiency.com/account/statistics/values.summary.value
    There's obviously no precise way to determine activity, but stuff like rank, testimonies of heroics, etc. should at least give a rough impression. They are all just proxies and all have their own limitations, but I'm not aware of a better database that's available to us.

    Wow.. Ok.. this was kinda cool!

    Did you know.. that among 50% of the total population, the average WvW rank is 42.
    and the Average number of Mag shards is 0.

    Draw whatever you want from that.

    You do realize that if I spend my magnetite shards, then it will still be zero...right? You can't sell or deplete wvw rank.

    You literally can't 'draw' any information from this, because there is no comparison to be had there.

    Do you really wanna know the numbers on badges of Honor?

    Hint.. it's at 90% it's over 200.

    Wanna what it looks like at 90% for mag shards? .. even those with 4000+ hours.. have ZERO.

    a TON more people WvW then Raid.

    You can easily get thousands of Badges of Honors by just doing WvW dailies. WvW dailies have been a good source of the 2 gold and 10 AP for a long time.

  • IndigoSundown.5419IndigoSundown.5419 Member ✭✭✭✭
    No, not interested.

    @STIHL.2489 said:
    What you seem to be deliberately ignoring is that the forum population was that vocal minority and even among them.. raids are a minority.

    Kinda sad. I really did expect higher numbers. I was kinda expecting around 50% to at least tried raids..

    Add, "Yes regularly." and "Yes, sometimes." 29%
    Now, add, "No, tried it but it didn't work out." and the total is 41% of survey takers who've at least tried raids.

    As to those who don't want to raid:

    39% "Not interested."

    It's not fair to assign, "No, no group and don't want to PuG." or, "Other." to either side. Too many questions are unanswered to determine whether they tried it or didn't, or would if something changed -- unless someone wants to read every post. Drop those numbers and you've got.

    Tried raids: 42 + 27 + 28 = 97; 97/188 = 51.5%
    Not interested: 91; 91/188 = 48.4%

    In this microcosm of a microcosm, the tried and not tried groups are similar. That's a far cry from your, "minority of a minority."

    You also seem to be presuming that a majority of forum regulars asked for raids. That's not how I remember it.

    Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. -- Santayana

  • Turin.6921Turin.6921 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 1, 2018
    Yes, regularly.

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:
    But I still stand by what I said.. it's pretty sad that even among the community that clamored for more challenging content.. only 20% of them do it regularly. I given the ruckus that as raised, I would have expected at least majority would have voted yes to enjoying raids at all (Where we have less then 30%)

    The community that clamored for challenging content was probably about 10% (based on how various gaming studios have discussed metrics), so 20% is quite good.

    It's 20% of the community that was clamoring.. not the whole game.

    A vocal minority clamored for challenging content. Near as anyone can measure, a larger minority is regularly playing the latest in challenging content.
    There are no tools to measure how many of those who specifically asked (or didn't ask) for raids are participating today.

    What you seem to be deliberately ignoring is that the forum population was that vocal minority and even among them.. raids are a minority.

    Kinda sad. I really did expect higher numbers. I was kinda expecting around 50% to at least tried raids..

    Your perception is quite twisted. No mainstream MMORPG has 50% of its player base playing the most challenging content in PvE. In most thats about 10%. Anet themselves actually declared in the past that a greater percentage of players than they expected actually raid .

    That is what challenging content is in every game. A niche. But a niche that is loyal (thus providing revenue and healthy population), creates buzz, helps in class building and so on. They have one team of 4-5 devs that keeps 20% of the player-base occupied and constantly logging in. Thats pretty successful content if i ever saw one.

  • reddie.5861reddie.5861 Member ✭✭✭
    No, not interested.

    pve bad pvp good, no seriously i just cant stand smashing mindless npc's which any tool can beat with little bit brain power..
    might fail once or twice but ones u know how kitten works u can basically do it eyes closed..

    if raids where on WvW i would be on all the time when it spawns but since it spawns in dull dungeon where no1 can harrass you im out.
    i dont really care for rewards so i dunno why i should even bother going there.
    only have 1 char with ascended gear rest is all with exotic kitten and works perfectly fine in WvW

  • reddie.5861reddie.5861 Member ✭✭✭
    No, not interested.

    @Silmar Alech.4305 said:
    Being forced to do training on the real bosses and only fail while doing this prevents me from further pursuing raid activity. I would very much like to do this kind of instanced organized content, but it's not fun preparing until you have fun. Rising through the fractal ranks and exploring fractal tier after fractal tier up to the challenge modes was fun and entertaining and provided content for a long time. Raid training is not.

    I don't understand the concept anyway: PvP for example has a sophisticated matchmaking system to create matches between equally skilled players to get balanced matches, while in a raid, the novice PvE players are put to the endgame super hyper bosses and are expected to learn how to beat them. If matchmaking in PvP works this way and novice PvP players are matched against the world champions, we'd have probably no PvP players any more after the first months of release except the world champions.

    sadly match making isnt working as good as you think, and as for raids why u need training?

    i mean most bosses work like this
    trigger X hp use skill X and Y and movement Z
    trigger X HP use skill balabaalabalaba

    so if u die everytime on a trigger of X HP u know how to get past it next time u hit that amount of HP.
    raids are brainless npc's it doesnt require much to beat them.
    its just a fat HP punchbag.

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 1, 2018
    Other (State your thought).

    @IndigoSundown.5419 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:
    What you seem to be deliberately ignoring is that the forum population was that vocal minority and even among them.. raids are a minority.

    Kinda sad. I really did expect higher numbers. I was kinda expecting around 50% to at least tried raids..

    Add, "Yes regularly." and "Yes, sometimes." 29%
    Now, add, "No, tried it but it didn't work out." and the total is 41% of survey takers who've at least tried raids.

    As to those who don't want to raid:

    39% "Not interested."

    It's not fair to assign, "No, no group and don't want to PuG." or, "Other." to either side. Too many questions are unanswered to determine whether they tried it or didn't, or would if something changed -- unless someone wants to read every post. Drop those numbers and you've got.

    Tried raids: 42 + 27 + 28 = 97; 97/188 = 51.5%
    Not interested: 91; 91/188 = 48.4%

    In this microcosm of a microcosm, the tried and not tried groups are similar. That's a far cry from your, "minority of a minority."

    You also seem to be presuming that a majority of forum regulars asked for raids. That's not how I remember it.

    They were loud enough to be listened to in favor of those that were against it.. so.. no matter what you may remember, they had the louder voice.

    Now, with that put out.. I stand and repeat what I said. even among the community that asked for it it's sad that less then half of them even tried.

    P.S. No.. the other groups matter, you don't get to delete peoples votes because they don't suit your agenda.

    There are two kinds of Gamers, Salty, and Extra Salty.
    Ego is the Anesthesia that dullens the pain of Stupidity.

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Other (State your thought).

    @Exo.2143 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @FrostDraco.8306 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @CptAurellian.9537 said:
    https://gw2efficiency.com/account/statistics/values.summary.value
    There's obviously no precise way to determine activity, but stuff like rank, testimonies of heroics, etc. should at least give a rough impression. They are all just proxies and all have their own limitations, but I'm not aware of a better database that's available to us.

    Wow.. Ok.. this was kinda cool!

    Did you know.. that among 50% of the total population, the average WvW rank is 42.
    and the Average number of Mag shards is 0.

    Draw whatever you want from that.

    You do realize that if I spend my magnetite shards, then it will still be zero...right? You can't sell or deplete wvw rank.

    You literally can't 'draw' any information from this, because there is no comparison to be had there.

    Do you really wanna know the numbers on badges of Honor?

    Hint.. it's at 90% it's over 200.

    Wanna what it looks like at 90% for mag shards? .. even those with 4000+ hours.. have ZERO.

    a TON more people WvW then Raid.

    You can easily get thousands of Badges of Honors by just doing WvW dailies. WvW dailies have been a good source of the 2 gold and 10 AP for a long time.

    LOL... still counts as WvW don't it now?

    Hummmmmm....

    There are two kinds of Gamers, Salty, and Extra Salty.
    Ego is the Anesthesia that dullens the pain of Stupidity.

  • Kamara.4187Kamara.4187 Member ✭✭✭
    No, not interested.

    My first toon in Guild Wars was made in prophecies. I've always liked Gw's for its competitive play. If I wanted to do raids I'd boot up my old WoW account.

    "Love thy enemy, for without them there would be no WvW."

  • Turin.6921Turin.6921 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 1, 2018
    Yes, regularly.

    @STIHL.2489 said:
    They were loud enough to be listened to in favor of those that were against it.. so.. no matter what you may remember, they had the louder voice.

    Now, with that put out.. I stand and repeat what I said. even among the community that asked for it it's sad that less then half of them even tried.

    It was not that it was louder. It is just that most reasonable PvEers or PvPers that did not care about raids did not react at all since it is amazingly entitled and childish to object to sth that will affect nothing that has to do with your gaming habbits. If you do not care for them you can ignore them in-game and only takes a miniscule amount of personel to develop compared to the total number of Anet devs. Why would you object for something that does not affect you.

    The few people that were against it were just unreasonable. The only real objection was that raids would breed elitism. But that argument is self-defeating, as you are basically complaining about breeding elitism in a game mode that does not exist and you would not play anyway if it existed. So why would you care about it.

  • Lunateric.3708Lunateric.3708 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 1, 2018
    Yes, regularly.

    @Turin.6921 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:
    They were loud enough to be listened to in favor of those that were against it.. so.. no matter what you may remember, they had the louder voice.

    Now, with that put out.. I stand and repeat what I said. even among the community that asked for it it's sad that less then half of them even tried.

    It was not that it was louder. It is just that most reasonable PvEers or PvPers that did not care about raids did not react at all since it is amazingly entitled and childish to object to sth that will affect nothing that has to do with your gaming habbits. If you do not care for them you can ignore them in-game and only takes a miniscule amount of personel to develop compared to the total number of Anet devs. Why would you object for something that does not affect you.

    The few people that were against it were just unreasonable. The only real objection was that raids would breed elitism. But that argument is self-defeating, as you are basically complaining about breeding elitism in a game mode that does not exist and you would not play anyway if it existed. So why would you care about it.

    Truth is people that complain as a whole do want something that is locked behind raids. An item, to experience it, legendary armor or the ring precursor, something. They are just rationalizing or at least trying to rationalize why they can't or won't raid.

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 1, 2018
    Other (State your thought).

    @Turin.6921 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:
    They were loud enough to be listened to in favor of those that were against it.. so.. no matter what you may remember, they had the louder voice.

    Now, with that put out.. I stand and repeat what I said. even among the community that asked for it it's sad that less then half of them even tried.

    It was not that it was louder. It is just that most reasonable PvEers or PvPers that did not care about raids did not react at all since it is amazingly entitled and childish to object to sth that will affect nothing that has to do with your gaming habbits. If you do not care for them you can ignore them in-game and only takes a miniscule amount of personel to develop compared to the total number of Anet devs. Why would you object for something that does not affect you.

    The few people that were against it were just unreasonable. The only real objection was that raids would breed elitism. But that argument is self-defeating, as you are basically complaining about breeding elitism in a game mode that does not exist and you would not play anyway if it existed. So why would you care about it.

    Except that adding Raids, also meant a revision to the class structure which would affect all other game modes, which was why I was against them to stat with. The way this game as set up mechanically did not bode well to role restricted classes. Pity those "reasonable" players didn't voice up.. and now are stuck stupidly broken OP elite specs in their PvP game modes, and well.. now they are regretting it.

    There are two kinds of Gamers, Salty, and Extra Salty.
    Ego is the Anesthesia that dullens the pain of Stupidity.

  • Morwath.9817Morwath.9817 Member ✭✭✭✭
    No, not interested.

    @Lunateric.3708 said:

    @Turin.6921 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:
    They were loud enough to be listened to in favor of those that were against it.. so.. no matter what you may remember, they had the louder voice.

    Now, with that put out.. I stand and repeat what I said. even among the community that asked for it it's sad that less then half of them even tried.

    It was not that it was louder. It is just that most reasonable PvEers or PvPers that did not care about raids did not react at all since it is amazingly entitled and childish to object to sth that will affect nothing that has to do with your gaming habbits. If you do not care for them you can ignore them in-game and only takes a miniscule amount of personel to develop compared to the total number of Anet devs. Why would you object for something that does not affect you.

    The few people that were against it were just unreasonable. The only real objection was that raids would breed elitism. But that argument is self-defeating, as you are basically complaining about breeding elitism in a game mode that does not exist and you would not play anyway if it existed. So why would you care about it.

    Truth is people that complain as a whole do want something that is locked behind raids. An item, to experience it, legendary armor or the ring precursor, something. They are just rationalizing or at least trying to rationalize why they can't or won't raid.

    Ooo, nooo. If Quaggan would complain about raids, it would be because raid design is wasted resources, as those resources could go for sPvP, WvW or even better and more frequent Living Seasons.

  • Loosmaster.8263Loosmaster.8263 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Other (State your thought).

    @Turin.6921 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:
    But I still stand by what I said.. it's pretty sad that even among the community that clamored for more challenging content.. only 20% of them do it regularly. I given the ruckus that as raised, I would have expected at least majority would have voted yes to enjoying raids at all (Where we have less then 30%)

    The community that clamored for challenging content was probably about 10% (based on how various gaming studios have discussed metrics), so 20% is quite good.

    It's 20% of the community that was clamoring.. not the whole game.

    A vocal minority clamored for challenging content. Near as anyone can measure, a larger minority is regularly playing the latest in challenging content.
    There are no tools to measure how many of those who specifically asked (or didn't ask) for raids are participating today.

    What you seem to be deliberately ignoring is that the forum population was that vocal minority and even among them.. raids are a minority.

    Kinda sad. I really did expect higher numbers. I was kinda expecting around 50% to at least tried raids..

    Your perception is quite twisted. No mainstream MMORPG has 50% of its player base playing the most challenging content in PvE. In most thats about 10%. Anet themselves actually declared in the past that a greater percentage of players than they expected actually raid .

    That is what challenging content is in every game. A niche. But a niche that is loyal (thus providing revenue and healthy population), creates buzz, helps in class building and so on. They have one team of 4-5 devs that keeps 20% of the player-base occupied and constantly logging in. Thats pretty successful content if i ever saw one.

    That's 4-5 Raid Devs. Can you tell us how many WvW/PvP has on a mode that's been here since release?

    Playing the PvE scene because WvW is just "BAD"...

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Other (State your thought).

    @Loosmaster.8263 said:

    @Turin.6921 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:
    But I still stand by what I said.. it's pretty sad that even among the community that clamored for more challenging content.. only 20% of them do it regularly. I given the ruckus that as raised, I would have expected at least majority would have voted yes to enjoying raids at all (Where we have less then 30%)

    The community that clamored for challenging content was probably about 10% (based on how various gaming studios have discussed metrics), so 20% is quite good.

    It's 20% of the community that was clamoring.. not the whole game.

    A vocal minority clamored for challenging content. Near as anyone can measure, a larger minority is regularly playing the latest in challenging content.
    There are no tools to measure how many of those who specifically asked (or didn't ask) for raids are participating today.

    What you seem to be deliberately ignoring is that the forum population was that vocal minority and even among them.. raids are a minority.

    Kinda sad. I really did expect higher numbers. I was kinda expecting around 50% to at least tried raids..

    Your perception is quite twisted. No mainstream MMORPG has 50% of its player base playing the most challenging content in PvE. In most thats about 10%. Anet themselves actually declared in the past that a greater percentage of players than they expected actually raid .

    That is what challenging content is in every game. A niche. But a niche that is loyal (thus providing revenue and healthy population), creates buzz, helps in class building and so on. They have one team of 4-5 devs that keeps 20% of the player-base occupied and constantly logging in. Thats pretty successful content if i ever saw one.

    That's 4-5 Raid Devs. Can you tell us how many WvW/PvP has on a mode that's been here since release?

    last I looked.. kitten near zero.

    There are two kinds of Gamers, Salty, and Extra Salty.
    Ego is the Anesthesia that dullens the pain of Stupidity.

  • @STIHL.2489 said:

    @IndigoSundown.5419 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:
    What you seem to be deliberately ignoring is that the forum population was that vocal minority and even among them.. raids are a minority.

    Kinda sad. I really did expect higher numbers. I was kinda expecting around 50% to at least tried raids..

    Add, "Yes regularly." and "Yes, sometimes." 29%
    Now, add, "No, tried it but it didn't work out." and the total is 41% of survey takers who've at least tried raids.

    As to those who don't want to raid:

    39% "Not interested."

    It's not fair to assign, "No, no group and don't want to PuG." or, "Other." to either side. Too many questions are unanswered to determine whether they tried it or didn't, or would if something changed -- unless someone wants to read every post. Drop those numbers and you've got.

    Tried raids: 42 + 27 + 28 = 97; 97/188 = 51.5%
    Not interested: 91; 91/188 = 48.4%

    In this microcosm of a microcosm, the tried and not tried groups are similar. That's a far cry from your, "minority of a minority."

    You also seem to be presuming that a majority of forum regulars asked for raids. That's not how I remember it.

    They were loud enough to be listened to in favor of those that were against it.. so.. no matter what you may remember, they had the louder voice.

    Now, with that put out.. I stand and repeat what I said. even among the community that asked for it it's sad that less then half of them even tried.

    P.S. No.. the other groups matter, you don't get to delete peoples votes because they don't suit your agenda.

    You seem to be presuming that everyone voting in the poll asked for raids; the poll is open to everyone. You seem to be presuming that raids were only added because a vocal minority spoke louder than others; that's also not true (ANet has told us they had raids planned for a while; they just couldn't figure out how to add them in a way that suited their concept of GW2).

    And finally, you have no way of measuring how many who asked for raids didn't try. We can measure who voted in this poll. We can measure what fraction of people registered on GW2/Efficiency have any amount of LI. But we can't tell who among those voting asked (or did not ask) for raids. We can't tell among those with LI who asked or didn't ask for raids.

    All we really know is that most game studios say that few people raid and that ANet says the numbers were higher here (in GW2) than expected.

    Hype is the path to the dark side. Hype leads to unfulfilled expectations. Disappointment leads to anger. Anger leads to disgust. Disgust leads to "oh, new shinies! I'm back!"

  • Loosmaster.8263Loosmaster.8263 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Other (State your thought).

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Loosmaster.8263 said:

    @Turin.6921 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:
    But I still stand by what I said.. it's pretty sad that even among the community that clamored for more challenging content.. only 20% of them do it regularly. I given the ruckus that as raised, I would have expected at least majority would have voted yes to enjoying raids at all (Where we have less then 30%)

    The community that clamored for challenging content was probably about 10% (based on how various gaming studios have discussed metrics), so 20% is quite good.

    It's 20% of the community that was clamoring.. not the whole game.

    A vocal minority clamored for challenging content. Near as anyone can measure, a larger minority is regularly playing the latest in challenging content.
    There are no tools to measure how many of those who specifically asked (or didn't ask) for raids are participating today.

    What you seem to be deliberately ignoring is that the forum population was that vocal minority and even among them.. raids are a minority.

    Kinda sad. I really did expect higher numbers. I was kinda expecting around 50% to at least tried raids..

    Your perception is quite twisted. No mainstream MMORPG has 50% of its player base playing the most challenging content in PvE. In most thats about 10%. Anet themselves actually declared in the past that a greater percentage of players than they expected actually raid .

    That is what challenging content is in every game. A niche. But a niche that is loyal (thus providing revenue and healthy population), creates buzz, helps in class building and so on. They have one team of 4-5 devs that keeps 20% of the player-base occupied and constantly logging in. Thats pretty successful content if i ever saw one.

    That's 4-5 Raid Devs. Can you tell us how many WvW/PvP has on a mode that's been here since release?

    last I looked.. kitten near zero.

    Sshhh!!! I know that. I'm querying the other guy...

    Playing the PvE scene because WvW is just "BAD"...

  • Turin.6921Turin.6921 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 1, 2018
    Yes, regularly.

    @Loosmaster.8263 said:

    @Turin.6921 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:
    But I still stand by what I said.. it's pretty sad that even among the community that clamored for more challenging content.. only 20% of them do it regularly. I given the ruckus that as raised, I would have expected at least majority would have voted yes to enjoying raids at all (Where we have less then 30%)

    The community that clamored for challenging content was probably about 10% (based on how various gaming studios have discussed metrics), so 20% is quite good.

    It's 20% of the community that was clamoring.. not the whole game.

    A vocal minority clamored for challenging content. Near as anyone can measure, a larger minority is regularly playing the latest in challenging content.
    There are no tools to measure how many of those who specifically asked (or didn't ask) for raids are participating today.

    What you seem to be deliberately ignoring is that the forum population was that vocal minority and even among them.. raids are a minority.

    Kinda sad. I really did expect higher numbers. I was kinda expecting around 50% to at least tried raids..

    Your perception is quite twisted. No mainstream MMORPG has 50% of its player base playing the most challenging content in PvE. In most thats about 10%. Anet themselves actually declared in the past that a greater percentage of players than they expected actually raid .

    That is what challenging content is in every game. A niche. But a niche that is loyal (thus providing revenue and healthy population), creates buzz, helps in class building and so on. They have one team of 4-5 devs that keeps 20% of the player-base occupied and constantly logging in. Thats pretty successful content if i ever saw one.

    That's 4-5 Raid Devs. Can you tell us how many WvW/PvP has on a mode that's been here since release?

    Anet has 400 devs....Ask MO for the distribution. I can bet there are more than in raids team. At least for PvP.

  • Turin.6921Turin.6921 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 1, 2018
    Yes, regularly.

    @STIHL.2489 said:
    . Pity those "reasonable" players didn't voice up.. and now are stuck stupidly broken OP elite specs in their PvP game modes, and well.. now they are regretting it.

    Yeah sure cause the PvP and WvW balance issues is becuase the balance devs care more about raids right? Raids compositions were stuck in mirror comps exactly cause of PvP and Wvw balance changes for nearly a year. And for good reason actually. It did not break the game mode for raids and the WvW changes were more important.

    You are completely disconnected from the state of the game if you think that raid balance is being taken into account more than the PvP and if you think that is the reason that the balance issues you think are present are becuase of raids. Or are you actually argnuing that the reason for the Elite Spec was solely raids. That is insane. As long as they are keen on not spliting balance these issues would have been present raids or not.

  • Lunateric.3708Lunateric.3708 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Yes, regularly.

    @Morwath.9817 said:

    @Lunateric.3708 said:

    @Turin.6921 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:
    They were loud enough to be listened to in favor of those that were against it.. so.. no matter what you may remember, they had the louder voice.

    Now, with that put out.. I stand and repeat what I said. even among the community that asked for it it's sad that less then half of them even tried.

    It was not that it was louder. It is just that most reasonable PvEers or PvPers that did not care about raids did not react at all since it is amazingly entitled and childish to object to sth that will affect nothing that has to do with your gaming habbits. If you do not care for them you can ignore them in-game and only takes a miniscule amount of personel to develop compared to the total number of Anet devs. Why would you object for something that does not affect you.

    The few people that were against it were just unreasonable. The only real objection was that raids would breed elitism. But that argument is self-defeating, as you are basically complaining about breeding elitism in a game mode that does not exist and you would not play anyway if it existed. So why would you care about it.

    Truth is people that complain as a whole do want something that is locked behind raids. An item, to experience it, legendary armor or the ring precursor, something. They are just rationalizing or at least trying to rationalize why they can't or won't raid.

    Ooo, nooo. If Quaggan would complain about raids, it would be because raid design is wasted resources, as those resources could go for sPvP, WvW or even better and more frequent Living Seasons.

    Those resources already go to other parts of the game so that complaint is unfortunately unfounded and myopic.

    The VG guy in Bloodstone Fen, Sloth in Ember Bay, White Mantle mobs in Lake Doric, Eater of Souls and so on.

    This mechanic and mob porting doesn't limit itself to raids > open world either, Amala was a fractal port.

    I'm all in for discussing ideas but let's not twist stuff to the point it's not an idea but a preconception.

  • Tekoneiric.6817Tekoneiric.6817 Member ✭✭✭✭
    No, no group don't want to pug.

    I think the whole concept of how they did raids in GW2 is flawed. As I've stated before it should have been focused on a way to introduce raiders to new (instanced down) PvE maps before they are released as general PvE maps. Raiders should lead strike teams to take new territory along with setting waypoints, merchants, etc. It's a waste building a map just for raids when raids could be done on an instanced down and obfuscated PvE maps. Raids would still be raids but just using PvE maps but PvE players would later get to see the post-raid map but there would be areas where raid teams never went to so there would be plenty of PvE events.

    A good example of what I'm talking about is the one personal story instance where the Pale Tree send you to a vision of Orr. It's all foggy and hard to get your bearings. Dragon's Stand is another good example. It looks like it could be a post-raid map. When you get there PACT forces already have encampments in place along with waypoints and forward scouts. As a player we never got to see or experience getting to the raw map, taking down bosses that controlled those areas, setting up encampments and leading teams to setup asura waypoints.

    My other problem with raids is the forced random multiplayer instanced content. We need a hero/henchmen system for instanced content (not PvE) much like the one in GW1 but with improved AIs to run them so single players can do raids. I'd like to see a hero system that allows us to pull from our own characters for heroes because we spend time building and equipping them. We should be able to configure each character in its hero panel to perform specific combat tasks like tank, healer, damage dealer, distractor, etc. The biggest problem I see with GW2 AIs is they tend to tank only getting themselves killed quickly. They never fall back to heal while using ranged weapons , attack from the rear of an enemy or fall back to string out the enemies forcing them into a column to make it easier to kill those at the front.

  • IndigoSundown.5419IndigoSundown.5419 Member ✭✭✭✭
    No, not interested.

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    They were loud enough to be listened to in favor of those that were against it.. so.. no matter what you may remember, they had the louder voice.

    ANet rarely listens to naysayers. They also, frequently, add things that minority player demographics ask for.

    Now, with that put out.. I stand and repeat what I said. even among the community that asked for it it's sad that less then half of them even tried.

    You seem to be lumping people who did not ask for raids in with people who did.

    P.S. No.. the other groups matter, you don't get to delete peoples votes because they don't suit your agenda.

    I did not delete their input. You decided to arbitrarily include them in with the, "No way!" demographic when the choice they selected does not mean they did not try raids.

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    Except that adding Raids, also meant a revision to the class structure which would affect all other game modes, which was why I was against them to stat with.

    Citation needed. There were years of posts about changing dungeon/fractal content to prioritize tanking/healing.

    Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. -- Santayana

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Other (State your thought).

    @Turin.6921 said:

    @Loosmaster.8263 said:

    @Turin.6921 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:
    But I still stand by what I said.. it's pretty sad that even among the community that clamored for more challenging content.. only 20% of them do it regularly. I given the ruckus that as raised, I would have expected at least majority would have voted yes to enjoying raids at all (Where we have less then 30%)

    The community that clamored for challenging content was probably about 10% (based on how various gaming studios have discussed metrics), so 20% is quite good.

    It's 20% of the community that was clamoring.. not the whole game.

    A vocal minority clamored for challenging content. Near as anyone can measure, a larger minority is regularly playing the latest in challenging content.
    There are no tools to measure how many of those who specifically asked (or didn't ask) for raids are participating today.

    What you seem to be deliberately ignoring is that the forum population was that vocal minority and even among them.. raids are a minority.

    Kinda sad. I really did expect higher numbers. I was kinda expecting around 50% to at least tried raids..

    Your perception is quite twisted. No mainstream MMORPG has 50% of its player base playing the most challenging content in PvE. In most thats about 10%. Anet themselves actually declared in the past that a greater percentage of players than they expected actually raid .

    That is what challenging content is in every game. A niche. But a niche that is loyal (thus providing revenue and healthy population), creates buzz, helps in class building and so on. They have one team of 4-5 devs that keeps 20% of the player-base occupied and constantly logging in. Thats pretty successful content if i ever saw one.

    That's 4-5 Raid Devs. Can you tell us how many WvW/PvP has on a mode that's been here since release?

    Anet has 400 devs....Ask MO for the distribution. I can bet there are more than in raids team. At least for PvP.

    I wonder how they pull that off with less then 300 employees.

    There are two kinds of Gamers, Salty, and Extra Salty.
    Ego is the Anesthesia that dullens the pain of Stupidity.

  • Turin.6921Turin.6921 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 2, 2018
    Yes, regularly.

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Turin.6921 said:

    @Loosmaster.8263 said:

    @Turin.6921 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:
    But I still stand by what I said.. it's pretty sad that even among the community that clamored for more challenging content.. only 20% of them do it regularly. I given the ruckus that as raised, I would have expected at least majority would have voted yes to enjoying raids at all (Where we have less then 30%)

    The community that clamored for challenging content was probably about 10% (based on how various gaming studios have discussed metrics), so 20% is quite good.

    It's 20% of the community that was clamoring.. not the whole game.

    A vocal minority clamored for challenging content. Near as anyone can measure, a larger minority is regularly playing the latest in challenging content.
    There are no tools to measure how many of those who specifically asked (or didn't ask) for raids are participating today.

    What you seem to be deliberately ignoring is that the forum population was that vocal minority and even among them.. raids are a minority.

    Kinda sad. I really did expect higher numbers. I was kinda expecting around 50% to at least tried raids..

    Your perception is quite twisted. No mainstream MMORPG has 50% of its player base playing the most challenging content in PvE. In most thats about 10%. Anet themselves actually declared in the past that a greater percentage of players than they expected actually raid .

    That is what challenging content is in every game. A niche. But a niche that is loyal (thus providing revenue and healthy population), creates buzz, helps in class building and so on. They have one team of 4-5 devs that keeps 20% of the player-base occupied and constantly logging in. Thats pretty successful content if i ever saw one.

    That's 4-5 Raid Devs. Can you tell us how many WvW/PvP has on a mode that's been here since release?

    Anet has 400 devs....Ask MO for the distribution. I can bet there are more than in raids team. At least for PvP.

    I wonder how they pull that off with less then 300 employees.

    MO himself said in an AMA a few months (i think) before PoF that their numbers are nearing 400. They have been hiring the last year it seems.

    EDIT: They also refer to it on their wiki page. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/ArenaNet

  • Tolmos.8395Tolmos.8395 Member ✭✭✭
    No, tried it but didn't work out.

    I used to love doing the raids in GW1, but I’m afraid the feeling here is just... different.

    I actually was playing other games when raids really picked up in GW2, and the reputation raiding in this game got is beyond words. They are downright infamous in other communities. That said, I figured I would ignore the rumors give it a go myself. Unfortunately, the first group I ended up in fit most of the stereotypes I had already heard. At that point, I decided raiding just was not for me and left it at that.

    Of all the stories that go around, though, I think the most popular/egregious are of fractal groups and the like, which have groups that can boot members towards the end of a run so that they can bring in a friend for the finish. Things like that completely turn me off from wanting to try again, because if that happened to me I can’t say for certain I would want to continue playing at all. I would much rather just miss out on raid content than deal with all that unnecessary virtual drama.

    As long as I can keep playing the rest of the game without having to raid, then I’m good. If that changes, it will probably end up running me off, but hopefully that won’t ever be the case. There are plenty of other things to do here!

  • FlyingK.9720FlyingK.9720 Member ✭✭✭
    No, no group don't want to pug.

    I really just don't like the instanced content in this game, too many dungeon / fractal / raid mechs are just too gimmicky, immersion breaking and just flat out of place for me. I loved raiding in WildStar, loved dungeons in Blade&Soul, but I just plain don't like either in GW2. What GW2 does have that those other games do not is a solid open world experience where I can jump into and out of map metas, world bosses, minor events or even helping others get hero points and the like; generally, I just feel like there's always something to do. Because of that, I would rather see Anet focus on what they are doing right and what sets them apart from the others instead of trying to copycat their competition and be so diverse that nobody is actually having any fun.

  • Gabbynot.2654Gabbynot.2654 Member ✭✭
    edited January 2, 2018
    No, not interested.

    been their done that all in wow/ world of warcraft sure not interest at all in doing it in this game . anet can tie all the collections to it that it likes to do still will not do any raiding at all in this game ever !!! like i said done it in wow not doing it here at all. not only that but it breaks a lot of things from the first guild wars which i played since beta . guild wars never ever ever had any raids or even close to raids at all even !!

    no to raids in living storys as well too !!! not sure why it is every one and his brother and dumb uncles need to raid .. bad enough with the elitism in this game and the dps meters kitten kitten to make the game easy hacked . no matter what they tell you . and if

    i wanted to do raids i would go back to playing wow and dump this game !!! but i just happen to really love the pve in this game !!

    edit to add some more to this

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2, 2018
    Other (State your thought).

    @Turin.6921 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Turin.6921 said:

    @Loosmaster.8263 said:

    @Turin.6921 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:
    But I still stand by what I said.. it's pretty sad that even among the community that clamored for more challenging content.. only 20% of them do it regularly. I given the ruckus that as raised, I would have expected at least majority would have voted yes to enjoying raids at all (Where we have less then 30%)

    The community that clamored for challenging content was probably about 10% (based on how various gaming studios have discussed metrics), so 20% is quite good.

    It's 20% of the community that was clamoring.. not the whole game.

    A vocal minority clamored for challenging content. Near as anyone can measure, a larger minority is regularly playing the latest in challenging content.
    There are no tools to measure how many of those who specifically asked (or didn't ask) for raids are participating today.

    What you seem to be deliberately ignoring is that the forum population was that vocal minority and even among them.. raids are a minority.

    Kinda sad. I really did expect higher numbers. I was kinda expecting around 50% to at least tried raids..

    Your perception is quite twisted. No mainstream MMORPG has 50% of its player base playing the most challenging content in PvE. In most thats about 10%. Anet themselves actually declared in the past that a greater percentage of players than they expected actually raid .

    That is what challenging content is in every game. A niche. But a niche that is loyal (thus providing revenue and healthy population), creates buzz, helps in class building and so on. They have one team of 4-5 devs that keeps 20% of the player-base occupied and constantly logging in. Thats pretty successful content if i ever saw one.

    That's 4-5 Raid Devs. Can you tell us how many WvW/PvP has on a mode that's been here since release?

    Anet has 400 devs....Ask MO for the distribution. I can bet there are more than in raids team. At least for PvP.

    I wonder how they pull that off with less then 300 employees.

    MO himself said in an AMA a few months (i think) before PoF that their numbers are nearing 400. They have been hiring the last year it seems.

    EDIT: They also refer to it on their wiki page. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/ArenaNet

    And yet this says.. less then 300.

    But even if they had 400 employees, that is nowhere near 400 devs.

    There are two kinds of Gamers, Salty, and Extra Salty.
    Ego is the Anesthesia that dullens the pain of Stupidity.

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Other (State your thought).

    @IndigoSundown.5419 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:
    Now, with that put out.. I stand and repeat what I said. even among the community that asked for it it's sad that less then half of them even tried.

    You seem to be lumping people who did not ask for raids in with people who did.

    Yes.. as that would be this community.

    There are two kinds of Gamers, Salty, and Extra Salty.
    Ego is the Anesthesia that dullens the pain of Stupidity.

  • Ashen.2907Ashen.2907 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Other (State your thought).

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @IndigoSundown.5419 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:
    What you seem to be deliberately ignoring is that the forum population was that vocal minority and even among them.. raids are a minority.

    Kinda sad. I really did expect higher numbers. I was kinda expecting around 50% to at least tried raids..

    Add, "Yes regularly." and "Yes, sometimes." 29%
    Now, add, "No, tried it but it didn't work out." and the total is 41% of survey takers who've at least tried raids.

    As to those who don't want to raid:

    39% "Not interested."

    It's not fair to assign, "No, no group and don't want to PuG." or, "Other." to either side. Too many questions are unanswered to determine whether they tried it or didn't, or would if something changed -- unless someone wants to read every post. Drop those numbers and you've got.

    Tried raids: 42 + 27 + 28 = 97; 97/188 = 51.5%
    Not interested: 91; 91/188 = 48.4%

    In this microcosm of a microcosm, the tried and not tried groups are similar. That's a far cry from your, "minority of a minority."

    You also seem to be presuming that a majority of forum regulars asked for raids. That's not how I remember it.

    They were loud enough to be listened to in favor of those that were against it.. so.. no matter what you may remember, they had the louder voice.

    Now, with that put out.. I stand and repeat what I said. even among the community that asked for it it's sad that less then half of them even tried.

    P.S. No.. the other groups matter, you don't get to delete peoples votes because they don't suit your agenda.

    As far as we know fully 100% of the people who asked for it have tried raids.

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2, 2018
    Other (State your thought).

    @Ashen.2907 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @IndigoSundown.5419 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:
    What you seem to be deliberately ignoring is that the forum population was that vocal minority and even among them.. raids are a minority.

    Kinda sad. I really did expect higher numbers. I was kinda expecting around 50% to at least tried raids..

    Add, "Yes regularly." and "Yes, sometimes." 29%
    Now, add, "No, tried it but it didn't work out." and the total is 41% of survey takers who've at least tried raids.

    As to those who don't want to raid:

    39% "Not interested."

    It's not fair to assign, "No, no group and don't want to PuG." or, "Other." to either side. Too many questions are unanswered to determine whether they tried it or didn't, or would if something changed -- unless someone wants to read every post. Drop those numbers and you've got.

    Tried raids: 42 + 27 + 28 = 97; 97/188 = 51.5%
    Not interested: 91; 91/188 = 48.4%

    In this microcosm of a microcosm, the tried and not tried groups are similar. That's a far cry from your, "minority of a minority."

    You also seem to be presuming that a majority of forum regulars asked for raids. That's not how I remember it.

    They were loud enough to be listened to in favor of those that were against it.. so.. no matter what you may remember, they had the louder voice.

    Now, with that put out.. I stand and repeat what I said. even among the community that asked for it it's sad that less then half of them even tried.

    P.S. No.. the other groups matter, you don't get to delete peoples votes because they don't suit your agenda.

    As far as we know fully 100% of the people who asked for it have tried raids.

    I said community.. and this community.. the forum community.. asked for this.

    and.. given the ruckus that was raised for the need for challenging content.. I expected more.

    Pitiful really.

    There are two kinds of Gamers, Salty, and Extra Salty.
    Ego is the Anesthesia that dullens the pain of Stupidity.

  • Tolmos.8395Tolmos.8395 Member ✭✭✭
    No, tried it but didn't work out.

    This is something most MMOs struggle with, now more than ever.

    Raids have always been niche. Even in games where raids are the centerpiece, the numbers almost always end up being that 20% or less of people actually raid in any consistent basis. Everyone TRIES raiding, if nothing else just to see the story, but the number of people who actually raid on a weekly basis? Not so much.

    Now, this isn't inherently bad. But it does mean that raids rarely meet the expectations of the raiders. Raiders often play a bit more than your average non-raiders, and thus consume the content a bit more quickly. But since they aren't the bulk of the playerbase, they often don't get the resources devoted to them that would be necessary to keep them having fun constantly.

    It's been a problem since at least Vanilla WoW, and I doubt it will ever stop being one. Especially as modern players start to have less patience for waiting and grinding, and as more games begin to focus on catering to that crowd to increase revenue.

    Raiding is an integral feature of any MMO, and lacking it entirely is akin to lacking PvP entirely. Not everyone religiously plays either, but that doesn't mean either should be ignored.

  • VanHalenRules.5243VanHalenRules.5243 Member ✭✭
    edited January 2, 2018
    Other (State your thought).

    Tried doing practice raids with my former guild for one night a year and 1/2 ago because I finally gave in and decided to give it a go with them. I personally am someone who under no circumstances wants to be the guy that screws something up for everyone else because I am behind on knowledge about it compared to the others involved, and that's what I felt like was the case. Also something so easy to mess up is obviously the type of game content that is most likely going to make people become toxic and angry towards those that are not as effective at it as they are, causing something that should be done for fun to become stressful and annoying. It's these reasons why I avoid pvp and raids completely. I don't have patience for people that bash their teammates/allies over the fact that they lost in a video game. Games are for fun, I like to play in an environment that's loose and fun for all involved. Life is too short for a serious game mode. I am interested in doing them, but only with a group that doesn't give a kitten whether they win or not, and won't find it a burden if some are not as good as others.

  • Dreamy Lu.3865Dreamy Lu.3865 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Other (State your thought).

    @CptAurellian.9537 said:

    @Dreamy Lu.3865 said:

    • Required equipment: It is expensive. I already work out equipment for my WvW and Fractals toons. I can't do all at same time. Raid will have to wait.

    I hope you are aware that fractal and raid gear are usually identical.

    I am aware, but it helps only if you use the same class for raid and fractal, what is not my case.

    I'm out of my mind, feel free to leave a message...

  • rwolf.9571rwolf.9571 Member ✭✭✭
    Other (State your thought).

    Raided for 2 months. Even started to do training runs! Then I unlocked the skins I wanted, and never felt the need to play again...
    The itch came back with the new wing. But seeing how it's currently the hardest content so far, I think I will pass on it.

  • Ashen.2907Ashen.2907 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Other (State your thought).

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Ashen.2907 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @IndigoSundown.5419 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:
    What you seem to be deliberately ignoring is that the forum population was that vocal minority and even among them.. raids are a minority.

    Kinda sad. I really did expect higher numbers. I was kinda expecting around 50% to at least tried raids..

    Add, "Yes regularly." and "Yes, sometimes." 29%
    Now, add, "No, tried it but it didn't work out." and the total is 41% of survey takers who've at least tried raids.

    As to those who don't want to raid:

    39% "Not interested."

    It's not fair to assign, "No, no group and don't want to PuG." or, "Other." to either side. Too many questions are unanswered to determine whether they tried it or didn't, or would if something changed -- unless someone wants to read every post. Drop those numbers and you've got.

    Tried raids: 42 + 27 + 28 = 97; 97/188 = 51.5%
    Not interested: 91; 91/188 = 48.4%

    In this microcosm of a microcosm, the tried and not tried groups are similar. That's a far cry from your, "minority of a minority."

    You also seem to be presuming that a majority of forum regulars asked for raids. That's not how I remember it.

    They were loud enough to be listened to in favor of those that were against it.. so.. no matter what you may remember, they had the louder voice.

    Now, with that put out.. I stand and repeat what I said. even among the community that asked for it it's sad that less then half of them even tried.

    P.S. No.. the other groups matter, you don't get to delete peoples votes because they don't suit your agenda.

    As far as we know fully 100% of the people who asked for it have tried raids.

    I said community.. and this community.. the forum community.. asked for this.

    and.. given the ruckus that was raised for the need for challenging content.. I expected more.

    Pitiful really.

    A fraction of this community asked for raids.

  • DeWolfe.2174DeWolfe.2174 Member ✭✭✭
    No, no group don't want to pug.

    a whole 28% Raid and Raid sometimes. GJ Dev's for putting some much into them and gating so many rewards behind something 72% of your customers do not participate in.

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