Can we expect a nerf to support firebrand? [PVP/WVW]

Right now, support firebrand is sitting alone in the SS tier in every PvP game mode: Conquest, Large Scale WvW(15v15+), Small Scale WvW (5v5). It is so dominant in these game modes that it is by far the most played elite spec. Currently it is beating out every other support class by a longshot. It can soak up damage from 3-5 players and still survive with its incredible boon and healing output.

In my opinion, support firebrand is game-breaking and needs to be toned down. Can we expect a balance patch any time soon to deal with this monstrosity of an elite spec?

I agree.

They just don't die.Fought many small groups of 5-7 in wvw that run double support firebrand making the group

While I agree with sentiment I hope they don't Nerf their cleanse as it's the only support able to keep up with the aids aoe

They are a strong support but honestly, thats pretty much all they can do. They can be near unkillable smallscale but to achieve that they sacrifice a ton of damage. In its combo form, its not that hard to swamp the scourge in damage, forcing the fb to go full tank and be even more useless. IMO this battering ram combo is balanced out by the fact that the "weak" zerg classes counter it with more clever play - thieves, rangers, mesmers.

@"Dawdler.8521" said:They are a strong support but honestly, thats pretty much all they can do. They can be near unkillable smallscale but to achieve that they sacrifice a ton of damage. In its combo form, its not that hard to swamp the scourge in damage, forcing the fb to go full tank and be even more useless. IMO this battering ram combo is balanced out by the fact that the "weak" zerg classes counter it with more clever play - thieves, rangers, mesmers.

This! Firebrand shines when grouped with other classes, preferably a scourge and a gamebreaker.

@"Dawdler.8521" said:They are a strong support but honestly, thats pretty much all they can do. They can be near unkillable smallscale but to achieve that they sacrifice a ton of damage. In its combo form, its not that hard to swamp the scourge in damage, forcing the fb to go full tank and be even more useless. IMO this battering ram combo is balanced out by the fact that the "weak" zerg classes counter it with more clever play - thieves, rangers, mesmers.

Sorry. I need to laugh about this: clever play from mesmers hahaha. (Guess ill get another warning for this, but i have to laugh. It seems like a joke to me)Its just pressing 4 buttons and your opponent is dead.

And mesmer can do the same boon-output.

I really hope there will be necro buffs. Even if its only support-buff for necros. Cause its definetly not what they wanted. A condi-oriented support spec. NOIt cant support properly. And if you want to. You wont do any good condi dmg, cause you loose to many stats, while being forced to play minstrel or something like this.

@Nimon.7840 said:

@"Dawdler.8521" said:They are a strong support but honestly, thats pretty much all they can do. They can be near unkillable smallscale but to achieve that they sacrifice a ton of damage. In its combo form, its not that hard to swamp the scourge in damage, forcing the fb to go full tank and be even more useless. IMO this battering ram combo is balanced out by the fact that the "weak" zerg classes counter it with more clever play - thieves, rangers, mesmers.

Support lol gw 2 is all about dps XD for everyone must be dps

@Dawdler.8521 said:They are a strong support but honestly, thats pretty much all they can do.

this is...not actually trueThe guy who ended at # 5? on the NA leaderboard, Arken, and was consistently # 1-2 till he quit the game due to match manipulation, played a dps/support firebrand. And the guy I duoed with until I got to plat 2 does as well. There are also a couple full burst dps variants, that can burst down a target faster than a typical holosmith.

@reikken.4961 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:They are a strong support but honestly, thats pretty much all they can do.

Any good DPS/Support FB hybrid anyone can recommend?

Thanks!

Righteous_Instincts + good retaliation uptime is the core of the build. lets you crit without needing any precisionharrier amulet, full bar of mantras, and honor as the other trait line is what arken used

these forums ... now they asking to nerf a pure support no damage class ridiculous. firebrand is the only class that keeps this game form been a spam dps fest. Maybe druid too but druid isn't half as good vs condi teams. A nerf to firebrand means that condi teams will go rampant again and 4 scourges will be optimal or something similar.Ask for others healer to be buff instead get a freaking clue

@reikken.4961 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:They are a strong support but honestly, thats pretty much all they can do.

But have you seen Arken's build? Have you tried it? It has 12k health, it has no invulnerabilities, he plays it without mace. So it is suuuuuper squishy. It has boons and boon support for ages, but if the boons are stripped this build dies to a flat breeze.

I have watched a coulple of Arken's Twitch videos because I was interested in his build. First of all he plays extremly well, second he plays very smart and goes last into teamfights so that he isn't focused first.

Honestly, as soon as the opposing team knows that a guy plays this build, they focus him and he is dead instantly. I think its basicly a cheese build that works when people don't understand it or don't see it coming. Fun cheese build though.

Yeah I tried it, after the guy I duoed with played it a ton (he does really well on it. apparently has an 81.5% winrate on guard), he finally convinced me to give it a go. I did a lot better with it than I expected to, especially given that I don't play guard. It's got low health, but with the instant cast blocks and heals and permanent stability and permanent protection that's buried under a zillion other buffs making it difficult to strip/corrupt, and instant cast weakness, it's nowhere near as squishy as a typical 12k health build would be. Just don't expect to play it like you're a bunker, and you're fine. On that build, you're dps/support. NOT support/bunker.

Anyway, all this is a little off topic. I was only responding to the claim that firebrand can't do anything but support. It has great build variety. The only thing it can't do is mobility. It can do everything else. But not all on the same build. The topic at hand, however, is nerfing things that are out of line. Firebrand's support, especially in a full bunker build, is what's out of line. It outclasses every other support by a wide margin.

@Vag.5682 said:these forums ... now they asking to nerf a pure support no damage class ridiculous. firebrand is the only class that keeps this game form been a spam dps fest. Maybe druid too but druid isn't half as good vs condi teams. A nerf to firebrand means that condi teams will go rampant again and 4 scourges will be optimal or something similar.Ask for others healer to be buff instead get a freaking clue

What makes you think pure support can't be worthy of a nerf?and no, 4 scourges will never be optimal. Hint: scourge has no access to reflects or blocks and has very poor access to stability (all of which firebrand has tons of)Also, I don't think anyone is suggesting that firebrand is the only class that should be nerfed.

No matter if it brings damage or not, Firebrands bunker and support capabilities are way over the top and need to be toned down. Only then Scourges (which should also be nerfed, along some other damage specs) can be held in check.

In my opinion, it's Tome of Courage that makes bunker FB so overtuned. The fact that they can get so much utility packed into what is only one skill for both core guard and DH by choosing nothing more than the elite spec traitline to me is honestly a bit absurd to me. Resistance, stability, aegis, protection, reflect, and taunt all in one? Yes I get that it is on a 50-second [untraited] cooldown and you can't use any weapon skills while in it, but it just does too much. The fact that with Valor you can then have it reset upon rez or rally makes it even harder to deal with because of how good of a rezzer FB is. I agree that it helps keep Scourge in check and vice versa, but that is no excuse to keep it in its current implementation; both need to be brought down to a more respectable level (like auramancer ele). I should be thankful that minstrel ammy is not a thing in sPvP though.

I echo what someone else mentioned in this thread that their current access to stability is perhaps the worst culprit and probably the best thing to address before overnerfing it. It is, in my opinion, far too difficult to pin them down. I am okay with them healing well because most run magi's and sacrifice their damage, but look how little ventari bunker (lul) does when running magi's in comparison to firebrand despite them having comparable damage output. I understand that ventari bunker was a gimmick meme build, but my point is that support can just as easily be overtuned as damage.