Whats the scrapper for?

Im not talking about numbers here but rather about design.What purpose does the scrapper serve? It seems like it completely lacks identity when compared to the holosmith or almost any other elite spec.

I sometimes use scrapper in WvW as frontliner in zergs with this build:http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vdAQFASlUUh2tYBWw+KQ7FLTGF9fX37t4zUABQ42lMhFA-j1xHABhv/Q+PAgfU+5n6PNpEEgLAgY6AAA-wBut thats it...No use in PvE.No use in PvP and WvW smallscale because holo is better and any other bunker or supporter is just better.Scrapper was strong during HoT but recieved a lot of nerfs, and is now outshined by any other PoF spec.

@"mov.1246" said:I sometimes use scrapper in WvW as frontliner in zergs with this build:http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vdAQFASlUUh2tYBWw+KQ7FLTGF9fX37t4zUABQ42lMhFA-j1xHABhv/Q+PAgfU+5n6PNpEEgLAgY6AAA-wBut thats it...No use in PvE.No use in PvP and WvW smallscale because holo is better and any other bunker or supporter is just better.Scrapper was strong during HoT but recieved a lot of nerfs, and is now outshined by any other PoF spec.

Like I said,lets put the numbers and balance aside...WTF is the scrapper supposed to be? Core engi with gyros?

@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@"mov.1246" said:I sometimes use scrapper in WvW as frontliner in zergs with this build:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vdAQFASlUUh2tYBWw+KQ7FLTGF9fX37t4zUABQ42lMhFA-j1xHABhv/Q+PAgfU+5n6PNpEEgLAgY6AAA-w

But thats it...No use in PvE.No use in PvP and WvW smallscale because holo is better and any other bunker or supporter is just better.Scrapper was strong during HoT but recieved a lot of nerfs, and is now outshined by any other PoF spec.

You can't look at a class and ask its purpose without considering "numbers". IE a healer pumps decent healing numbers, a support pumps decent boon uptimes or a DPS pumps decent damage.

Scrapper does nothing like that and fits no role currently because Holo outclassed it in every sense outside personal damage mitigation but even mitigating damage as it does it has no identity and many broken synergies (like Impact Savant), Gyros are also particularly weak with all the cleave from PvP and WvW modes and their travel speed being so slow. In PvE it's a gigantic DPS loss and does nothing unique or needed outside maybe getting a res on a single person from distance and that's extremely niche as you'd imagine.

AFAIK Scrapper was designed to be a bunker specifically in PvP.I always questioned this, IMO a elite spec should work in every game mode. But now poor Scrapper is not good even at such narrow and limited role either, so it doesn't really have a "for" anymore.

Clarity of purpose made its purpose so clear it vanished.

Scrapper was meant to be a Juggernaut

AKA

High defense bruiser reliant on momentum

Now scrapper is nothing but an underperformer

@Amaranthe.3578 said:Like I said,lets put the numbers and balance aside...kitten is the scrapper supposed to be? Core engi with gyros?

It is nice to see a topic like that on this board, after such a long time. I use the scrapper in PVE since Heart of Thorns and kept it during Path of Fire till today. To answer your question shortly: Improving survivablity.

I run two totally different engineer builds with the scrapper elite. The first one is a condition-engineer, which uses combos for buffing/cleansing/healing and gyros. The second is a power-based hammer scrapper using exlirs (HGH) for cleansing/buffing. The survivability on both is a lot higher than with the holosmith - which is no art. On the power build, I am mostly an inofficial tank thanks to the awesome hammer-skills. If the enemy charges an ultimate blow, people just run, I leap into the abyss and survive most of the time XD. Considering that the hammer is designed to be one of the most powerful-melee weapons in the game, the damage is just a big joke. I do not play the buriser for the damage.

The condition-build is mostly the 101 engineer of the good old days, flamethrower+elexirgun+motar and lots of combos. The damage on this one is also far away from counting. But the team-support is even better. Noticable healing and buffing.

It is fun to play a class that allows you to fight in the frontline, survive most attacks, recover fast and assist your allies in a way most other classes have to decide between attack OR support. If something goes horribly wrong, I can still grab my gyros and improvise. While the gyros lack reliable AI, their abilities and toolbelts work well. Walking with the gyros feels a bit like doing an escort mission in a survival-game with a sucicidal npc to protect.

I have done several tries to make a working Holosmith which I enjoy. But the idea of playing a glasscanon is ridiculous for me. I gladly trade the power for flexibility, survivability and speed. The scrapper allows me to maintain all three. The other big issue I have with the Holosmith. I is basically just Photon-Forge or nothing. No passives usable for other skills/weapons. The scrapper improves existing features and adds a few new ones. Most used scrapper-skill? Function-Gyro ^^.

PS: The community on this board is basically NUMBERS ONLY. Most of the discussions are done about PvP even in PvE topics. If you have read what I wrote above, you may realize that our opinions are the exact opposite. Which is the reason why they ignored me in the old forums completely. I do not play the class for damage, so my opinion is invalid.

In theory? It's supposed to be a bruiser/tank.

In practice? It's not particularly effective at anything other than staying alive (which is questionable in PvP/WvW).

Frankly, I think it's an answer to two problems Core Engi has.

1. Scrapper gives players a NOT-swapping build with consistent, decent performance
2. It's a spec that lets you stick in the frontline with melee play

Even if that's not intended, it's what Scrapper does and it does them well. If you think it lacks identity, you need to look much harder. Before Holo, it stuck out like a black eye.

It's clearly a stealth bot in PvE, then you swap to holo after you're done stealthing =)

@HnRkLnXqZ.1870 said:

@Amaranthe.3578 said:Like I said,lets put the numbers and balance aside...kitten is the scrapper supposed to be? Core engi with gyros?

MInd sharing your build?I'm back to GW2 after about 4 years. I want to play my Engineer with a hammer, but based upon what ive read, I may have missed my opportunity.I just purchased both HoT and PoF. I'm starting now with HoT.Any help making the scrapper viable in PvE would be very much appreciated.

As you wish:http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vdAQFASlcThCsY5Vw6KQ7FLDG1XAsevH9nX5huY7cChAA-jxBGAB6pE8R1fG4CAEy+DypDAgHAgUK/CAcAw3BAA-e

It is a the result of countless of tryouts and experiments. I explain the confusing stuff:

• Celestial Trinkets/Backpiece: As I use two ascended sets, condition and power, this works best. On the condition build armor+weapon are full on viper-stats. The celestial parts grant me a solid ground to build my setup on. The main-focus was the build at least a 19k HP pool and toughness below 1500. Before I used these, I worked with a very weird mix of zealot, marauder and carrion pieces. Once I applied the celestial-parts, damage and survivability drastically increased on both builds ^^.
• Assassins gear: Second goal was to reach at least 50% cirt chance. I don't know what the meta aims for ^^. After years of training I noticed 50% is mostly fine as a start. Not dealing superior damage, but good enough to work with "on critical hit" stuff and to see a slight improvement when points spent on ferocity.
• Strength Runes: The original build was a boon-duration hoarder. With every step of progression I striped the build from might sources more and more. I still was able to maintain 25 might-stacks during combat however. With using the elexirs I can load some mightstacks for me and my group and cleanse a flood of conditions meanwhile. This and the hammer keep me constantly above 10 stacks, which are necessary to activate Applied Force. Combined with the elixir U I can get up to 60-70% quickness uptime, without using any real boon-gear at all. The strength runes allow me to maintain the 25 might-stacks during combat and I get some nice bonus-damage, which is very welcome due to the hammers usual low damage output.
• Blood and Water sigil: I normally used a sigil of strenght, but after some tests I noticed that I do not need that one as well anymore. The build is outbalanced enough to make the sigil obsolete. The original build worked with a set of dolyak runes, so I experimented with hot effects. The two sigils work great together and in combination with the motar (see below) they keep me alive when the healskill is on cooldown.

Combat:

• I simply swap between hammer and motar. Like the real engineer, you need to be constantly on the move. When equiped with the motar you can heal up very fast because the two sigils, backpack regenerator and rapid regeneration stack effects. When I am low on HP I mostly just swap to motar, get into ranged and keep shooting until I am back arround 50-70% HP, which is done in a few seconds. If the opponent is kiteable, I also like to use the motar-bomb strategy. For those of you who do not know this, you aim with the motar to the ground, about half a circle behind your char, run in circles/avoid the aoes and keep spamming shots. It works like the good old bomb-kit kiting, but you do not need a bomb-kit. Especially when being attacked by several opponents, this strategy works quite well to heal up. If the opponent is ranged, I either seek some cover or make them the center of my runing-circle. I also gamble with the throwable elexir u. When it is the wall of reflection, I stand inside or behind it and keep shooting at my enemy. Looks a bit lame to shoot with your own and the enemy projectiles, but it is fun and you heal fast.
• As long as HP is above 20-25% I stick to hammer. Rocket charge and shock shield allow me to tank and leap into destructive AoE attacks, attacking the enemy and surviving its blast. I mostly use this to be close enough to my allies to resurrect downed people after the blow. If my strategy works out, I can also stack up might stacks with my elexirs for arriving allies who are now dps-ing the enemy with me. I always save the real eleixr U during combat for either stun-breaking, but mostly to burst damage output in save situations. Aside from the defensive side-effect, rocket charge and shock shield seem to work also very well with quickness in terms of damage dealing.
• I usually spam my elexirs to buff or grant stability. But when fighting condi-enemies, this is very fun. It requires some good timing and sometimes even a bit waiting to get the right moment to "waste" elexir c. But when done correctly, your allies are condition-free and buffed. The elexirs also allow me to buff across the field. In some awkward bossfights I throw my elexirs in one direction and use my own elexirs for myself. I can buff/cleanse people who are not in closer range to me. Try that with another class.
• The build lacks cc skills. I mostly use thunderclap for stunning, but also to start a fight. When a group of enemies is infront, it keeps them in the location, deals some damage until I arrive with the hammer. When I need more cc skills I pull out my environmental-weapons. There exist a few with extremely powerful cc-attacks, allowing you to crush the break-bar of a champion alone, even in a group of 2-3 people. My luck is that environmental-weapons are seen as useless in this game. Noone really cares about the potential because dps>all XD. That is why I use them for years without ever fearing the devs to nerf them. While they do not work in fractals or dungeons, they work excellent in open world and story missions.
• I sometimes replace the motar with the sneak-gyro for stealth, or the elexir u with the bullwark gyro to gain a reliable refelct. Works good in fights against opponents with low condition effects. If things get ugly I have my food. For tougher fights I use Plate of Mussles Gnashblade + Magnanimous Maintainance Oil. During training or exploring, I sometimes end up against legendary bosses, which is really ugly. Bowl of Orrian Truffle and Meat Stew saved my life so many times. It is no real dps food, but it grants you additional endurance regeneration and might. The fights still take ages though.

Again, this is not a dps build. I balanced it on my personal preferences.

EDIT @"Lunateric.3708": I use gyros as an option, not as something that has to be used at all costs. There are situations where the gyros are quite helpful and I frequently change my skills&traits according to the situation. The build above is the standard version, when I switch back from the condition build in open world. The function gyro is still my most used gyro in all builds. I like to experiment with elite specs, ignoring the core-mechanics, if the traitline allows it. The holosmith traitline simply says "use the damn forge!" I created a build that allows me to get 100% quickness uptime with the sword and mostly ignoring the forge, but you may guess that it sux badly XD. With the scrapper I can pick what I want/need. That is why I still prefer it more than the holo ^^.

Any build flies for non-endgame content tbh so it's fine but you use 0 gyros. Why would that be?, that's plain ignoring a big chunk of the spec.

Sadly, it hasn't got much use anymore because it probably wasn't very well-thought-out. It was a spec designed with heavy cc application that helped it do something apart from staying alive. When cc was gone, it turned into a "we run this in pvp because there isn't any better option". And now there's holosmith. I'd even say it's the spec in the worse state right now.

I been playing scrapper and wvw and i feel useless. Cant be support with darubility runes and gyros / elixirs because firebrand and everybody and their mothet has stab and reaistance and blinds / aegis. And i cant be a full power hammet dps because i dont do enough damage in berserker gear and also if i blow my hammer coldowns for offanse i won't be able to defend my self with hammer skills.

Holosmith is better because damage is so good right now. No point in being defensive it seems. Also need huge bursty hits to win so holosmith is good at that.

Scrapper is pretty bad right now.

Scrapper was jack-of-all-trades and excelled at everything. It was capable of cleansing allies, ressing them with 100% certaintly, sustain, almost perma reflect. grant lot of stealth/superspeed and deal ton of damage.

They nerfed all of this. And buffed things like reaper and necro axe considerably (the one thing that countered it heavily). Now you don't have enough damage to kill any decent build solo.

It isnt very good at anything now meaning it is more like gimmicky stealth bot that gets hard countered by both reapers and scourges while not having enough damage to even get anyone under 50%. Its like druid without range.

Scrappers are tankier and spam CC. That's pretty much the bulk of what they do. They lack identity and focus and their function gyro isn't that functional outside competitive modes. They could use something to shine a bit more and make it more different from core engineer and other specialzaitions.

I think every elite specialization should have a mechanic trade-off. Things they have to lose other than traits to get new powers. Like how holosmith trades the elite toolbelt skill for the holoforge, or necromancer specializations trade their shrouds, or how deadeye trades stolen skills for spells, or how elementalist trade the default attunement process for longer recharges on overloads or 2-step attunements with weaver, or how spellbreaker trades the last adrenaline stage for full counter.

By having a tradeoff, the specialization is no longer Profession+, but fundamentally different. That creates a a new tool to change it and give it unique powers to each specializtion other than traits and added mechanics, allowing better and more fine-tuned balance.

This principle could be used to improving the lacking situation of the scrapper. One possible way to have a tradeoff for scrapper could be giving them a "Scrapper Gyro" that replaces the F5 skill, it could be an ammo skill that earns charges as the scrapper fights or does particular mechanics during the fight, then activate it to trigger its powers like adding damage or conditions to the scrapper's attacks. As they'd be trading off the elite toolbelt skill, that would both keep the core engineer unique instead making scrapper just an 'update' over it. By replacing something from core and give it an unique tradeoff, it can be improved without affecting core engineer and without radical changes to scrapper traits.

Something similar could be done with the other specializations that do not have a tradeoff. Both making the elite specialization more unique and allowing improvements in their core mechanic, while also keeping unique powers for the core profession.

• Berserker, like spellbreaker, would lose 1 bar of adrenaline. Keeping the third bar as something unique to core warrior that they get when they put any core specialization in the elite slote.
• Core revenant could get an F2 skill that refills the energy bar and resets the legend recharge. Something like that is rather powerful so it'd have to have a long recharge of over 90s.
• Core ranger could have and F5 skill that works as a "tag in" attack. It'd have a longer recharge than the usual pet swap and put the pet swap on recharge when used, but instead merely swapping the pets, the alternate pet would come in, both pets would do combined attack, then the previous pet leaves. Kind of like when using tag-in attacks in fighting games like Capcom vs Marvel.
• Core thief could get an extra 'pocket' slot that gets filled when with stolen skills. Daredevil would lose it to get 'lighter' and dodge more. Improvisation would then be changed from using a stolen skill twice to having +1 pocket, so core thief would have 2 pockets, 3 with improvisation, and daredevil and deadeye would get only 1, 2 with improvisation.
• Core mesmer could have an F5 that is replaced in chronomancer and lost as mirage. For example, it could be a shatter skill that forces illusions to use their attack skills once before shattering, or that shatters only clones, ignoring phantams.

@"MithranArkanere.8957" said:Scrappers are tankier and spam CC. That's pretty much the bulk of what they do. They lack identity and focus and their function gyro isn't that functional outside competitive modes. They could use something to shine a bit more and make it more different from core engineer and other specialzaitions.

I think every elite specialization should have a mechanic trade-off. Things they have to lose other than traits to get new powers. Like how holosmith trades the elite toolbelt skill for the holoforge, or necromancer specializations trade their shrouds, or how deadeye trades stolen skills for spells, or how elementalist trade the default attunement process for longer recharges on overloads or 2-step attunements with weaver, or how spellbreaker trades the last adrenaline stage for full counter.

By having a tradeoff, the specialization is no longer Profession+, but fundamentally different. That creates a a new tool to change it and give it unique powers to each specializtion other than traits and added mechanics, allowing better and more fine-tuned balance.

This principle could be used to improving the lacking situation of the scrapper. One possible way to have a tradeoff for scrapper could be giving them a "Scrapper Gyro" that replaces the F5 skill, it could be an ammo skill that earns charges as the scrapper fights or does particular mechanics during the fight, then activate it to trigger its powers like adding damage or conditions to the scrapper's attacks. As they'd be trading off the elite toolbelt skill, that would both keep the core engineer unique instead making scrapper just an 'update' over it. By replacing something from core and give it an unique tradeoff, it can be improved without affecting core engineer and without radical changes to scrapper traits.

Something similar could be done with the other specializations that do not have a tradeoff. Both making the elite specialization more unique and allowing improvements in their core mechanic, while also keeping unique powers for the core profession.

• Berserker, like spellbreaker, would lose 1 bar of adrenaline. Keeping the third bar as something unique to core warrior that they get when they put any core specialization in the elite slote.
• Core revenant could get an F2 skill that refills the energy bar and resets the legend recharge. Something like that is rather powerful so it'd have to have a long recharge of over 90s.
• Core ranger could have and F5 skill that works as a "tag in" attack. It'd have a longer recharge than the usual pet swap and put the pet swap on recharge when used, but instead merely swapping the pets, the alternate pet would come in, both pets would do combined attack, then the previous pet leaves. Kind of like when using tag-in attacks in fighting games like Capcom vs Marvel.
• Core thief could get an extra 'pocket' slot that gets filled when with stolen skills. Daredevil would lose it to get 'lighter' and dodge more. Improvisation would then be changed from using a stolen skill twice to having +1 pocket, so core thief would have 2 pockets, 3 with improvisation, and daredevil and deadeye would get only 1, 2 with improvisation.
• Core mesmer could have an F5 that is replaced in chronomancer and lost as mirage. For example, it could be a shatter skill that forces illusions to use their attack skills once before shattering, or that shatters only clones, ignoring phantams.

For first core should always be stronger than espec(they are meant too add not outshine core so hard that core is obsolete)

@Laila Lightness.8742 said:

@"MithranArkanere.8957" said:Scrappers are tankier and spam CC. That's pretty much the bulk of what they do. They lack identity and focus and their function gyro isn't that functional outside competitive modes. They could use something to shine a bit more and make it more different from core engineer and other specialzaitions.

I think every elite specialization should have a mechanic trade-off. Things they have to lose other than traits to get new powers. Like how holosmith trades the elite toolbelt skill for the holoforge, or necromancer specializations trade their shrouds, or how deadeye trades stolen skills for spells, or how elementalist trade the default attunement process for longer recharges on overloads or 2-step attunements with weaver, or how spellbreaker trades the last adrenaline stage for full counter.

By having a tradeoff, the specialization is no longer Profession+, but fundamentally different. That creates a a new tool to change it and give it unique powers to each specializtion other than traits and added mechanics, allowing better and more fine-tuned balance.

This principle could be used to improving the lacking situation of the scrapper. One possible way to have a tradeoff for scrapper could be giving them a "Scrapper Gyro" that replaces the F5 skill, it could be an ammo skill that earns charges as the scrapper fights or does particular mechanics during the fight, then activate it to trigger its powers like adding damage or conditions to the scrapper's attacks. As they'd be trading off the elite toolbelt skill, that would both keep the core engineer unique instead making scrapper just an 'update' over it. By replacing something from core and give it an unique tradeoff, it can be improved without affecting core engineer and without radical changes to scrapper traits.

Something similar could be done with the other specializations that do not have a tradeoff. Both making the elite specialization more unique and allowing improvements in their core mechanic, while also keeping unique powers for the core profession.

• Berserker, like spellbreaker, would lose 1 bar of adrenaline. Keeping the third bar as something unique to core warrior that they get when they put any core specialization in the elite slote.
• Core revenant could get an F2 skill that refills the energy bar and resets the legend recharge. Something like that is rather powerful so it'd have to have a long recharge of over 90s.
• Core ranger could have and F5 skill that works as a "tag in" attack. It'd have a longer recharge than the usual pet swap and put the pet swap on recharge when used, but instead merely swapping the pets, the alternate pet would come in, both pets would do combined attack, then the previous pet leaves. Kind of like when using tag-in attacks in fighting games like Capcom vs Marvel.
• Core thief could get an extra 'pocket' slot that gets filled when with stolen skills. Daredevil would lose it to get 'lighter' and dodge more. Improvisation would then be changed from using a stolen skill twice to having +1 pocket, so core thief would have 2 pockets, 3 with improvisation, and daredevil and deadeye would get only 1, 2 with improvisation.
• Core mesmer could have an F5 that is replaced in chronomancer and lost as mirage. For example, it could be a shatter skill that forces illusions to use their attack skills once before shattering, or that shatters only clones, ignoring phantams.

I agree, but in practice this hasn't been the case.

For every class except engineer, HoT especs were a straight upgrade.

For every class except thief and warrior (in PvE), PoF especs were a straight upgrade.

For especs to simply add flavor as you suggest, there'd have to be a massive rebalancing push to either bring core and older especs up, or to push current especs down. Both seem like monumental efforts that the balance team is simply too ineffective to do.

one of the main ptoblems with a potent scrapper was that much of its cc was incidental. it had strong cc and was good at what it did. but enemies would basically cc themselves while aoeing you. that's skillless and unfun to fight against, and boring to use. so anet took away all that incidental, random cc from exploding gyros, and rightfully so, but didn't replace it with something skillful that could keep scrapper as the cc machine it's supposed to be. it was never meant to particularly be a dps spec, it was meant to be a control spec. and so now it can't dps cuz it was never really good at that, but also what it was good at were things that were toxicly designed and executed and it hasn't been rebuffed.

but at least it's still good at surviving even without the extra control that made it nigh unkillable.

this is more a pvp/wvw story with pve caught in the crossfire.

@Amaranthe.3578 said:Im not talking about numbers here but rather about design.What purpose does the scrapper serve? It seems like it completely lacks identity when compared to the holosmith or almost any other elite spec.

How about a question which digs at the real core of your issue:

What was the point of Engineer (the class) at GW2's 2012 launch when anyone could instead take a Warrior, 2 Guardians and 2 Elementalists into a dungeon? GW2 has always been choked with bloat, and for some reason nobody seemed to notice it until HoT--and later PoF--came out.

@Swagg.9236 said:

How about a question which digs at the real core of your issue:

What was the point of Engineer (the class) at GW2's 2012 launch when anyone could instead take a Warrior, 2 Guardians and 2 Elementalists into a dungeon? GW2 has always been choked with bloat, and for some reason nobody seemed to notice it until HoT--and later PoF--came out.

well actually back then no one was any good at kit engi but it was more or less the same build up until around hot prerelease and by then people wanted engis because of the vuln stacking and high dps. condi engi in 2012-15 was a fine addition to a party that didnt have any other condi toons, and power did fine dps. it was only embraced in the meta once the changes to condi stacking went through, cuz it did cramp the space of another condi player. and you know, some people had to git gud and stop drooling on their keyboards while playing braindead builds like warrior.

@insanemaniac.2456 said:

@"Swagg.9236" said:

How about a question which digs at the real core of your issue:

What was the point of Engineer (the class) at GW2's 2012 launch when anyone could instead take a Warrior, 2 Guardians and 2 Elementalists into a dungeon?

GW2 has always been choked with bloat, and for some reason nobody seemed to notice it until HoT--and later PoF--came out.

Vuln is something that a warrior brought alongside Guardians. Engineer never compared favorably against Guardian and staff Ele DPS. Conditions were NEVER part of the PvE meta until the stacks were broken in that 2015 update. Three classes did everything important which GW2 had to offer. Everything added beyond it was more or less just shuffling the same deck of cards and pretending that it was something else. It's why a vast majority of buffs and new specialization updates have seemed so arbitrary and entirely flavor-centric rather than explicitly concerned with providing a role within a party encounter. Chrono and Druid are the only "new roles" in any class line-up, and they exist entirely in the form of "Let's slap an extra button onto the same bar that you've been using for 5 years." It's pretty pathetic.

@Swagg.9236 said:

@insanemaniac.2456 said:

@Swagg.9236 said:

How about a question which digs at the real core of your issue:

What was the point of Engineer (the class) at GW2's 2012 launch when anyone could instead take a Warrior, 2 Guardians and 2 Elementalists into a dungeon?

GW2 has always been choked with bloat, and for some reason nobody seemed to notice it until HoT--and later PoF--came out.

did you ever play condi engi in dungeon/fractal groups before the stack cap was lifted? out of curiosity.

hammer scrapper is a superb solo class, has survivability, decent damage and superb AoE CC with daze fields. Along with power renegade, my favourite solo pve class.