What happen to Core and Scrapper?

I feel like a lot of core builds, including kits such as Grenade, condi builds. And scrapper overall are gone.

Engi is stuck using the new shiny thing: Holomsmith. MORE SO than any other profession. If you look at other professions, using core and HoT elite spec is still viable.

What happened?

@Tzozef.9841 said:I feel like a lot of core builds, including kits such as Grenade, condi builds. And scrapper overall are gone.

Engi is stuck using the new shiny thing: Holomsmith. MORE SO than any other profession. If you look at other professions, using core and HoT elite spec is still viable.

What happened?

Depends on the game mode.

In PvP and WvW, yeah, if you aren't running holosmith then there's a problem. In PvE... core is just fine. Scrapper is in an atrocious state all-around.

Well I can tell you what happened in WvW - they couldnt compete with the scourge.

No really, all other classes had to adjust to that single class with its you-arent-allowed-to-PvP-near-me AoE mechanics and core/scrapper got boned. Core was pretty weak to begin with, power scrapper cant handle it and condi scrapper cant compete with it. Holosmith is only hanging on by its CC and heavy burst damage.

Actually , core nades engi got a pretty nice buff early on thanks to firearms traits being reworked ! i've seen some streamers playing it (Jebro and Chaithh for example)

@Nath Forge Tempete.1645 said:Actually , core nades engi got a pretty nice buff early on thanks to firearms traits being reworked ! i've seen some streamers playing it (Jebro and Chaithh for example)

You can get some ridiculous numbers from Grenade Barrage with that spec but it is so vulnerable to counterplay, rng and cc . Go watch some of the vids that Chaithh made during the few days he played this build before he went back to holo and you'll see how most of the time vs competent players he has to just roam around and try to +1 low health targets with a pull+barrage combo and when it doesnt work he has to peel out and run like hell before he's focussed down. Sometimes you can pull off a full combo with might stacks and damage buffs up and just annihilate someone, but like Deadeye, as soon as the enemy team knows you are a glass cannon you are going to be focussed and chased down.

ele is in about the same place as engi in this regardcore engi needs to do a little more to be worth the difficulty of playing it. Holosmith is stronger and easier, so no one plays anything else. And scrapper just needs buffs.

I want to say 2 important things.

1st in spvp and wvw and in websites - most builds are unviable and useless. Only holosmith seems to make engineet barely viable.

2nd people never played engineer until holosmith came out. I guess people thought holosmith is strong and OP well...maybe it is good. But i don't like playing holosmith. And a lot of players flocked to engineer for holosmith.

So i agree with the OP i look at websites and they mostly reccomend their builds with holosmith.

I hope we get buffs for pvp. Pve doesn't really matter as you can level and solo just fine with any build.

actually core engi in wvw is still viable as hell, im streaming when i roam from time to time and i won multiple 1v2s etc with my build. gotta say im playing engi since release almost and am currently r16 on eu leaderboards.. but well, core engi isnt dead especially due to the minesweeper trait in explosives which deals tons of dmg :)

You do realize they did that on purpose, right? Anet is following the shitty Death Knight tactic. Right before this expansion, every current class had debuffs, to insert a more powerful class. This will Prolly continue until the last expansion.

The part that bothers me the mist is how ‘dumb’ the meta dodgebuild is compared to core engi gameplay. It’s basically a dodgethief with decent utility. Sure its fun but I’d rather see it on par with core+HoT for that reason.

Dont know what you are talking about...my P/P vanilla engi is still rocking PvP and WvW :)

Mind you I was using a kick ass scrapper build of my design, when it got nerfed hard i went back to P/P vanilla

@Nick Lentz.6982 said:You do realize they did that on purpose, right? Anet is following the kitten Death Knight tactic. Right before this expansion, every current class had debuffs, to insert a more powerful class. This will Prolly continue until the last expansion.

We have thief pvp meta having a core spec, there are plenty of PVE highly ranked HOT specs and there's still half decent core builds for vanilla players with warrior, guardian etc. Yeah, sure you don't want your new specs to be WORSE and I don't think they should overpower everything but I think engineer is the only profession that has a large difference. Outside of that's it's pretty decently spread given the logistics of so many specs.

@reikken.4961 said:ele is in about the same place as engi in this regardcore engi needs to do a little more to be worth the difficulty of playing it. Holosmith is stronger and easier, so no one plays anything else. And scrapper just needs buffs.

I'd say Scrapper needs a rework. It needs to be pointed in a certain direction, like Scourge is condi, Firebrand is support, Holo is damage and Druid is a healer. At the moment, Scrapper has one decent CC, some poor-medicore support (Gyros) and is a Res/Finishing bot.

@"Samug.6512" said:I'd say Scrapper needs a rework. It needs to be pointed in a certain direction, like Scourge is condi, Firebrand is support, Holo is damage and Druid is a healer. At the moment, Scrapper has one decent CC, some poor-medicore support (Gyros) and is a Res/Finishing bot.

It used to have decent CC through daze before they destroyed that completely, Scrapper should have been the melee disruption spec.I also think it could have been the perfect candidate for a barrier based melee support spec but it came out too early for that. They should replace every mention of "Super Speed" with "Barrier" in the traits.

@Krag.6210 said:

@"Samug.6512" said:I'd say Scrapper needs a rework. It needs to be pointed in a certain direction, like Scourge is condi, Firebrand is support, Holo is damage and Druid is a healer. At the moment, Scrapper has one decent CC, some poor-medicore support (Gyros) and is a Res/Finishing bot.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vdQQJAqelcThyrY1VwWLw6FL3FlYB9D5QYNFQZGYDGhBAA-jByEABCqEUR1fY+EAg/+DAcgAcTPhBPQAnU+tO4AYqGFMaqM1UTN1UT1AGN1SHN1SHd0RTVKgLWsB-e

I still use core engineer. Roaming PvE and WvW using the flamethrower juggernaut build. It devastates the enemies. Also, the build is darn near unkillable. Honestly, its still better than scrapper or holo.,

@"Derenek.8931" said:http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vdQQJAqelcThyrY1VwWLw6FL3FlYB9D5QYNFQZGYDGhBAA-jByEABCqEUR1fY+EAg/+DAcgAcTPhBPQAnU+tO4AYqGFMaqM1UTN1UT1AGN1SHN1SHd0RTVKgLWsB-e

I still use core engineer. Roaming PvE and WvW using the flamethrower juggernaut build. It devastates the enemies. Also, the build is darn near unkillable. Honestly, its still better than scrapper or holo.,

Near unkillable with less than 16k health and very little condition removal?! It seems some people are facing a totally different meta in WvWvW. Typical zerg fight in EU tier 1 has so much conditions flying that anybody with less than 25k health and access to instant condition removal or immunity can die very fast. Of course good positioning can help, but the problem is that the above build lacks long distance attacks (900 really ain't long distance at all, considering enemy pirate ship has 1200+ range).

I would change the build by investing much less on thoughness and putting more to vitality. Really anything over 3k is generally wasted on medium armors, but much more health is needed to survive those nasty condi spikes.

The built in regeneration actually helps a lot when it comes to shrugging off condi damage. My sPvP build is condi based and not power based, and has the "gain regeneration when granting a boon to allies". That puts me way over the top as I close to melee range and melt their faces off with the flamethrower. WvW and PvP has allies around so those traits that synergize with allies are what I switch to. but its still essentially the same build. Just Rabid instead of Knights, and the regen along with boons to condi trait. (it's still not really necessary though. I can stand in the middle of four guys and melt them all.)

Core Engie and scrapper do need an update of sorts, there's too many undertuned, underutilized traits and skills. Turrets get cleaved way too easily, Gyros are unreliable, elixirs are surpassed by boon-sharing builds, and most kits are not very handy.

For a long time, we were told that Engineer are supposed to be generalist, jack of all trades, master of none, and true to that design philosophy, Engineer excels in nothing. Strip away Holosmith, and u have a class that's in identity crisis. Sure, Engie have a crapload of buttons at their disposal but the class as a whole, lack a unifying theme. It's an awkward mix of weapon kits + under-performing turrets /gyros + other not very creative utility skills.

Holosmith is cool becuz it has a theme and a sense of purpose that core engie / scrapper were so desperately lacking.

Of all the classes, engie is most in need (together with rev) of a rework. Not the mesmers, anet.

Many of our trait-lines still lack identity. I exclusively play Engineer for 2+ years now and even with the multiple balance patches and things generally improving for us; still lack identity. The Scrapper, with barriers, is a step in the right direction but the whole trait-line and the skills (Gyros) still need a major rework.

I like Alchemy being a "game of chance" and there should be traits that play into that. Inventions need to utilize both Gyros and Turrets better; both need a re-work. Firearms is getting to a better place but some final tier traits could be better. Holosmith is in a good spot thematically. Explosions needs some minor work.