How would you redesign the ranger? — Guild Wars 2 Forums

How would you redesign the ranger?

Lonami.2987Lonami.2987 Member ✭✭✭
edited July 7, 2018 in Ranger

Do you feel like the ranger could be much more? That his mechanics don't do his theme justice? Maybe his elite specializations have a weak design? Or do you just want to post some crazy ideas? Well, then this thread is for you.

So, just for fun, how would you redesign the ranger?

Last update here: June 8, 2018

Few personal ideas to start the thread:


Ranger - Pet system simplification

There's way too many pets, and those of the same family do pretty much the same thing.

The idea is simple: One pet per family. So, only one bear, only one moa, etc. The rest of the pets become aesthetic skins you can select from a secondary panel inside the Pet Management panel.

Next, take all the animals from these families that weren't previously available as pets, and make them skins too, taking ranger customization even further, with no gameplay implications and balance to worry about.

What about the special skill? In most cases, nothing of value would be lost, so we could just merge them, but then there could be problems with some magical pets, like drakes, whose abilities cannot be merged properly. A possible solution is to let players choose from a list of special skills for their pets, instead of having the skills locked to the pet skin.

So now, you choose a pet archetype, then a pet skin, and finally an enhancement, determining the special skills.

I would redesign pet skills a bit too, making them more useful. Skills 1, 2, and 3 would be tied to the archetype, and skills 4 and 5 would be tied to the enhancement. Players would be able to manually control two of those skills, one from the archetype and another from the enhancement.

This new system is more flexible, and would allow us to add new pets with multiple skins, with far less work than as of now. Note that archetypes have a racial foundation, but not a racial restriction. They merely define skills 1, 2, and 3.

The final list would be something like this, including new pet archetypes (some of them used by NPCs ingame), and a few ideas for the future:

Avian set

Mammal set

Reptile set

Invertebrate set

Aquatic set

  • Fish (Armor Fish, Barracuda, Electric Fish, Gulper Fish, Coelacanth)
  • Medusa (Jellyfish)
  • Octopus (Squid)
  • Shark (Manta Ray)
  • Turtle

There would be a total of eight enhancements. You'd need to unlock an appropriate skin to unlock an enhancement for that pet. For example, the ice drake would unlock the ice enhancement for the drake. Not all enhancements are available for every pet, but their effects would be similar across the ones they're available for.

The enhancements would be as follows:

  • Physical
  • Fire (Salamander Drake, Fire Wyvern)
  • Ice (Ice Drake)
  • Lightning (Electric Wyvern, Jacaranda)
  • Earth (Sand Lion)
  • Poison (Marsh Drake, Murellow, Iboga)
  • Chaos (Reef Drake)
  • Smoke (Smokescale)

Pet collecting could be spiced up a bit too. I wouldn't mind if some skins required more than just walking and interacting with them. Some could be tied to achievements, dynamic events, etc. Would be nice if other professions got their own collectibles as well (engineer could get kit and turret skins, necromancers minion skins, etc).

Finally, I would rename pets to beasts, which sounds like a better name, and makes them distinct enough from minipets.


Druid - Partial redesign

I don't like the Celestial Avatar transformation too much, and instead of trying to improve it, I prefer to leave the transformation mechanic for something cooler. The ranger would welcome a pet-less elite specialization too, and by pet-less I mean no pet whatsoever.

With that in mind, I'll give druid a few mechanic skills and a temporary dual mode.

Let's begin with the modes. Located in F4 and F5, they would work similar to elementalist attunements, and represent the sun/day and the moon/night, changing your physical aspect much like the Celestial Avatar. Both would be about support, sun focusing on damage, and moon in healing. They would use a new resource, called the cycle. The energy would be obtained by spending time on the opposing mode, so, to get sun energy, you need to spend some time on moon, and viceversa. This forces you to cycle between the two modes often.

Like attunements, they would change your weapon skills, but said changes wouldn't be completely new skills, only an additional layer of effects on top of the originals, keeping the core mechanics and stats, and taking them to the next level.

The other three mechanic skills, F1, F2, and F3, would include various flower seeds. You would throw them into the ground, and then they would bloom and apply a different effect when you switch to either sun or moon mode. Glyphs would keep their variation for moon mode, and get an additional one for sun mode.

With no pet, the druid would now focus on mode management and seed positioning.


Soulbeast - Beast transformations

It saddens me that soulbeast isn't a real fusion between pet and ranger. You just get some green swirl and a few mechanic skills, far from what merging should be.

This idea turns soulbeast into a real shapeshifter, using beast transformations. Since we can't have a transformation for each pet, we would stick to the archetypes already used for the F3 soulbeast skill, or make a new archetype system.

The transformations themselves would turn you into spirit beasts, combining elements from different animals. Each transformation would have some unique model details linked to the race of the ranger as well. For example, charr ones would have horns, sylvari ones leafs, norn tattoos, etc. All of them would be green/yellowish by default, with a ghostly appearance, inspired by the original soulbeast artwork.

Transformation examples:

  • Panther: Ferocious archetype, some sort of feline hybrid, excels in DPS. Amphibian.
  • Serpent: Deadly archetype, a large snake with the head of a Hydra and the body of a Sand Eel, excels in condition damage. Amphibian.
  • Bird: Versatile archetype, a large bird of prey similar to GW1's Rainbow Phoenix, excels in support. Rangers can glide while in this form.
  • Stag: Supportive archetype, a deer with large branch-like antlers, excels in healing.
  • Crocodile: Stout archetype, based on the Scaled Drake, excels in tanking and crowd control. Amphibian.

Like Beastmode, these transformations would boost your base stats, and not be limited by a timer, so you can stay in them as long as you want. Like other transformations, they would replace your weapon skills with new skills, unique to each transformation. Slot skills would still be available, and being downed would cancel the transformation.

Also, I would move off-hand dagger skills to sword off-hand, and give soulbeast new off-hand dagger skills.


Just some random ideas to begin the thread. Waiting for yours! =)

Profession Redesign series:
Elementalist - Mesmer - Necromancer - Engineer - Ranger - Thief - Guardian - Revenant - Warrior

Comments

  • InsaneQR.7412InsaneQR.7412 Member ✭✭✭✭

    The idea of pet refinement sounds good. But the two suggestions for the E-Specs arent really my cup of tea and the druid one would mess hardly with all traits interacting with the pet.

    Tuning on the pet mechanic and implement some kind of wardrobe system, amulet system and skill swap would improve rangers by a long shot.

    I would improve things rather than redesign them. Improve ranger traits so they have good interlinking interaction. Improve on ranger MH weapons on skills and scaling, so you can use them as condi or power weapons.
    Introduce amunition mechanic to several skills to improve the overall performance.

    Improving Soulbeast swap-in and out traits to insentify swapping beastmode.
    Petswap in beastmode for soulbeast to give it synergy with petswap traits.

    Improvements on Glyphs for druid. Glyph of tides get the effects swapped and alignment, reinforcement, elite and the heal get straight up improved.

    Some improvements visually and mechanically for traps and spirits.

    Tgis would be probably all i would improve. Not really redesign.

  • I would give pets its own traits system, and equipments.

  • Taelac.7036Taelac.7036 Member ✭✭✭

    I wouldn't redesign the ranger at all. Given a magic wand, I'd give all pets a refresh pass and fix things that aren't working properly with traits, look at making some of the generally-unused weapons more viable, and tighten up some of the less useful traits. Otherwise, I'm happy with where the core ranger is, and druid and soulbeast seem to also generally work well as designed.

    Good luck, have fun.

  • AEFA.9035AEFA.9035 Member ✭✭
    edited January 14, 2018

    I would give Ranger pets some tweaking if ever so that they are on par with new pets. Im sure ANET has data on which pets are being used the most and which ones are not COUGH Devourers! . Revisit some old traits and clean up the trash, then move on to skills that are not being use at all COUGH SPIRITS.

  • Lonami.2987Lonami.2987 Member ✭✭✭

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:
    The idea of pet refinement sounds good. But the two suggestions for the E-Specs arent really my cup of tea and the druid one would mess hardly with all traits interacting with the pet.

    The trait system needs a whole redesign anyway. I would remove lines, and use some tree-like system. This would mean those conflicting traits wouldn't even be available when they're not supposed to. So, pet traits wouldn't be available when there's no pet to use.

  • Ardenwolfe.8590Ardenwolfe.8590 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Definitely pet refinement.

    No longer posting or playing.

  • Lonami.2987Lonami.2987 Member ✭✭✭

    Just a random idea, what if the pet was removed from the core profession, and the entire beastmaster line was transformed into a new elite specialization, available for everyone? Seen a similar suggestion around for some time (for both ranger and other professions), but never seen it discussed too much.

    This would let base ranger, druid, and soulbeast be free of the current pet mechanic, and focus on other gameplay aspects, including new pet mechanics. For example, a future elite specialization could be the falconer, and would focus exclusively on avian pets, with their own AI and pet mechanics. Each ranger elite specialization could have its own type of pets, and some could be free of the pet as well.

    I like the pet from the design viewpoint, but I still think this could be interesting to discuss.

    @corey.6451 said:
    I would give pets its own traits system, and equipments.

    That can be somewhat complex, but it's a really interesting idea. I wouldn't give it classic equipment though, just a list of unlocked stats, free to switch whenever you are out of combat.

  • InsaneQR.7412InsaneQR.7412 Member ✭✭✭✭

    One idea is also that core rangers gets acces to pet archetypes and you can swap them between individual pets of the same family.
    In addition to that you can swap the F2 arround in between pet family members (for more customization options and as additional motivation to get all pets).

    Depending on archetype your pet has different stats. So a stout pet is more tanky, a supportive pets gets decent healing power etc etc.
    Best way would be probably that the archetypes resemble an amulet set. So like deadly is rampager, wild is berserker etc.

    Now indipendend from the pet F2 are the other bar skills.

    F1: This should be a ground targeted, similar to ventaris tablet you can command your pet arround if you want. On default it would follow you and bhave like it does now, but after a cimmand it will run to the targeted location and will attack the nearest target or revive the nearest ally. This could even be incorporated into traits, so you get bonusses when you command your pet arround or it will be a teleport if your pet has opening strike etc.

    F3: This would be obsolete because the F1 covers this function too.
    I would give this button the keybind to change the pets behaviour.
    In addition to guard and out of combat behaviour i would add the supportive behaviour. Your pet only attacks if you attack a target if it has supportive behaviour.

    Stow: Add a keybind option to this.
    Stow could also be implemented in a trait.
    I.e. Pet Ambush: Your pet is automatically stowed out if combat, entering combat unstowes your pet (petswap will go on CD though)

    This is probably what i would change on the pet mechanic, without touching the petskills themself yet.

    Probably doing a topic about this in the near future.

  • Lonami.2987Lonami.2987 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 21, 2018

    New ideas for elite specialization redesign, without going as far as in the first post:

    • Druid: No pet. Instead of a single transformation, now we have two, Sun and Moon. Sun is for DPS and CC, Moon is for healing and support. Both transformations use a new resource, called Astral Energy, which is divided in sun and moon, opposing each other. When you use a form for too long, the opposite form's energy increases, so you need to use the other one for a while to recover the energy. The idea is to reward good rotations between both forms. Astral Form gives a health boost now as well, to compensate for the removal of the pet.
    • Soulbeast: Similar mechanic, but now you can swap pets while in beastmode. Now beastmode skills only depend on the pet's archetype, and you no longer get specific skills for each pet. There's 5 archetypes, each one with a different beastmode effect and combat role. The idea is to get solid skills with a defined role instead of the current mess we have with dozen of skills that don't feel good enough.

    I think these would work well and respect the original vision a bit more. We can save the other mechanics for new elite specializations instead.

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:
    Stow: Add a keybind option to this.
    Stow could also be implemented in a trait.
    I.e. Pet Ambush: Your pet is automatically stowed out if combat, entering combat unstowes your pet (petswap will go on CD though)

    That one idea is pretty interesting.

  • How I would redesign the ranger?
    Remove the stupid pet-mechanic and put it in a bestmaster-specialization.
    Recreate the ranger core mechanic:
    Maybe some Skills called survival-mechanics. Poisons, preparations for the current weapon and a stance for more blocks/stability or speed.
    Simple, but effective and not as frustrating as the pet mechanic.

    ArenaNets balancing concept: Never change a ruined system

  • Lonami.2987Lonami.2987 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 8, 2018

    Revisiting the redesign ideas in a short way, plus some new elite specialization ideas to see how this redesign would improve future content too:

    • Ranger: The pet system has been simplified. Now you choose the species first (drake), and then an archetype (fire). The species determines the base skills and attributes, and the archetype unlocks additional skills and attributes, as long as it's enabled for that species. There's five archetypes: Common, Fire, Water, Air, and Earth. Additionally, you can now freely customize your pet's aesthetic with the appearance of any other members of its species, once unlocked. Off-hand sword is enabled by default, and off-hand dagger is made exclusive to soulbeast. Some pet species are merged, and new ones are introduced (raptor, griffon, eel, etc).

    • Druid: Now you can use mechanic skill F5 to temporarily transform your pet into a druidic wisp, disabling it in exchange of druidic skills. Once transformed, your mechanic bar will be upgraded, unlocking new druid skills in mechanic slots F1, F2, and F3. You can still swap pets using F4, swapping to the second pet's wisp. Each pet's archetype determines the type of wisp it will transform into and the mechanic skills unlocked by it (water would unlock healing skills, fire direct damage, etc). Weapon skills are not affected by the pet's transformation, but your character will receive a visual-only drudic form, its color determined by the current archetype. The pet is invulnerable while in wisp form.

    • Soulbeast: Pets are gone, replaced by animal transformations. You can equip two at once, using mechanic skills F1 and F2. The available transformations are Bear (crowd control, amphibian), Cheetah (direct damage, amphibian), Eagle (direct damage, glider), Eel (condition damage, amphibian), Scarab (condition damage, glider), and Stag (support). You can stay transformed as long as you want, only being forced out of the transformation when downed. Transformations change your attributes, increasing or decreasing them depending on the chosen one. Some transformations have gliding enabled, and others can't go underwater, forcing you to swim in the surface. You need to go back to normal to transform to a different animal.

    • Reaver: Pets are gone, replaced by a new mechanic, the swarm. Instead of a single individual, swarms include multiple smaller pets at once, and are commanded simultaneously. The controls are the same as those of pets, and you can swap to an alternate swarm much like when you swapped between pets. Swarm members can be killed individually, respawning automatically after a few seconds. There's six swarm types to choose from: Crabs (amphibian), Elvers (amphibian), Pocket Raptors, Pygmy Moas, Rats (amphibian), and Wasps; each including different skins and options to choose from. Venoms are the new slot skills, and they are applied to both the reaver and all active swarm members.

    • Bloodhound: Both pets are deployed at once, and swapping is no longer available. "Attack My Target" remains at mechanic skill F1, becoming a sequential skill alternating command of each pet. Mechanic skills F2 and F3 include each pet's respective special skill. Mechanic skill F4 includes a new skill, a combo attack involving both pets at once. Mechanic skill F5 includes the "Return to Me" skill, affecting both pets at once. Defeated pets despawn, respawning automatically after a few seconds.

    • Botanist: Pets are gone, replaced by a pouch of seeds. Mechanic skills F1, F2, F3, F4, and F5 let you equip 5 seed bags, individually selected from a list of 10. These seeds hatch when thrown, spawning magic plants with various abilities, including everything from direct damage to group support, most of them qualifying as combo fields as well. Wells are the new slot skills, and they boost the abilities of hatched plants.

  • I cringed a little when you talked about changing pets by making a lot of them skins. I do however agree with the soulbeast. It was a bit upsetting to not actually have a transformation. I feel that would make rangers an actual viable class when you go against other classes. Warrior seems to mow down rangers which is why the soulbeast change would make them a little stronger to go head to head with.

  • Get rid of the pet completely for a start, I hate everything about them. They're slow, unreliable, glitchy, the controls are really poor, and the AI behind them is really poor.

    I love the ranger, but I absolutely hate the pet. Epic game design fail IMHO.

  • InsaneQR.7412InsaneQR.7412 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 2, 2018

    I am currently working on a ranger redux thread. It'll be huge.
    I incorporate a new mechanic called preperation which is basically just a bonus attack on the first strike (so basically a different kind of Opening strike), that can be modfied in various ways.
    Additiobally i declare certain weaponskills that include the pet as marking skills that can be modified via beastmastery.

  • Krispera.5087Krispera.5087 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 2, 2018

    If ArenaNet wants to push and stick Pet mechanic to Ranger and future elite specs, then they need to be reworked to be meta 2018 standards.

    Druid could been given an offensive side. I liked Lonami side of view, about Moon/Sun. Just by looking at some Glyphs (Glyph of Equality and Glyph of the Tides) and CA 5 (Natural Convergence), an offensive Druid probably have been on their mind, but they scrapped it.

    IMO, Soulbeast should have been the real Pet-less spec, with only Beastmode Archetypes.

    edit : dat necro tho

  • anduriell.6280anduriell.6280 Member ✭✭✭

    i think a better title would be "How I would have designed the ranger". I came here looking for an open question.

  • As someone that uses druid for frac pugs, what I'd appreciate most is better (i.e. more visible and safer-looking) visual cues for 1 and 2. 1 is so subtle people won't even notice, but when I try to place 2 in the direction they are moving, they often dodge it or do 45 degrees from it, likely thinking it's something nasty despite lacking a red circle. This is especially true in hectic places with toxic trail etc where heals are most needed.

  • Lonami.2987Lonami.2987 Member ✭✭✭

    @scerevisiae.1972 said:
    Get rid of the pet completely for a start, I hate everything about them. They're slow, unreliable, glitchy, the controls are really poor, and the AI behind them is really poor.

    I love the ranger, but I absolutely hate the pet. Epic game design fail IMHO.

    How about keeping the pet, but making it temporary? Like, you summon a beast, it helps you for a few seconds, and then it's gone. Nothing like necromancer minions, more like mesmer illusions instead.

    Ideally, the best solution is to fix the AI, but that doesn't mean we can't explore other ways.

    @Krispera.5087 said:
    If ArenaNet wants to push and stick Pet mechanic to Ranger and future elite specs, then they need to be reworked to be meta 2018 standards.

    Druid could been given an offensive side. I liked Lonami side of view, about Moon/Sun. Just by looking at some Glyphs (Glyph of Equality and Glyph of the Tides) and CA 5 (Natural Convergence), an offensive Druid probably have been on their mind, but they scrapped it.

    IMO, Soulbeast should have been the real Pet-less spec, with only Beastmode Archetypes.

    I think an offensive/defensive druid rotation would have been the best. Right now it's useless beyond healing and support.

    And yeah, soulbeast should have been a shapeshifting elite spec, with no pet.

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:
    I am currently working on a ranger redux thread. It'll be huge.
    I incorporate a new mechanic called preperation which is basically just a bonus attack on the first strike (so basically a different kind of Opening strike), that can be modfied in various ways.
    Additiobally i declare certain weaponskills that include the pet as marking skills that can be modified via beastmastery.

    Marking skills sound interesting. They could work similarly to the Deadeye's Mark, and change pet behavior depending on it.

    Maybe the solution to pet problems isn't to improve the AI and the controls, but to streamline them so you only give targets plus roles, and then let them do their thing. If you can't micromanage it properly, then why bother with any kind of controls whatsoever?

    @ThePolarTitan.4025 said:
    I cringed a little when you talked about changing pets by making a lot of them skins. I do however agree with the soulbeast. It was a bit upsetting to not actually have a transformation. I feel that would make rangers an actual viable class when you go against other classes. Warrior seems to mow down rangers which is why the soulbeast change would make them a little stronger to go head to head with.

    Why? Pets are really pretty much all the same anyway, and normalization would open the way for new skins without having to make actual new pets.

  • InsaneQR.7412InsaneQR.7412 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @""Lonami.2987"

    Yeah i tied the marking skill traits mainly into beastmastery and gave beastmastery that pet defining line that focusses on pet enhancements/improvements. Maybe i change that later and spread it abit out, atm I mainly focussed on preperation strike, the other new mechanic. Nonetheless i havent got to the point of the pets (i decided to scrap the forum post and make a google file instead, i am currently on page 12 and i havent touched elites nor pets yet) but i am still on it although it stalled a bit due to finals.

    The marking skills are actually already in the game they arent just classified. All weaponsets have a skill that interacts with pets (i. E Maul or Wintersbite etc. ) these are my new marking skills. Maybe i change sword AA onto another sword skill but mainly the idea is to mark a target that will automatically be declared as your pets target. Depending on weapons different effects trigger (pretty similar to the ones we already have).
    I am very fond of indirect commanding via attacks/gestures etc. It makes the gameplay more fluid and you still feel the pets healp, it should be an extension of your weapon. The interaction between preperation and marking could be interestibg too, but it will take time to finish, maybe i work on it this week a bit again.

  • I'm largely satisfied with ranger as it is, and just desire tweaks to bring certain numbers into line.

    I mained druid in pve and pvp for the longest time, and as a healer/buffer I never really cared that pet performance was lacking; druids' pets are really there for CC or boons. I know a lot of people don't like CA, but I never found it that clunky. Before the relatively recent spvp nerfs, CA was trollishly good. Although I feel it's unnecessary, I do find the Sun/Moon thing very, very interesting! I'd gladly have my druid give up her pet in exchange for such a mechanic.

    I rarely run core ranger these days, but core is where I've made a lot of my best (and sometimes weirdest) off-meta builds. Again, if it suffers from anything, it's poor pet AI. Otherwise it has great sustain, generous access to cleanse, and decent dps output.

    I currently main power soulbeast. Ended last ranked pvp season at 1600 rating, and if I care enough I can see myself taking it up to 1700 this season. I can duel warriors who troll me at the home node - I can evade a lot of their rampage, and stability through the rest. That, combined with the fact that I have options at both range and melee, means that a lone spellbreaker usually can't prevent me from capping a point, and I don't need help from my team to do it. This same spvp build also allows me to solo most dungeon paths in reasonable time as well.

  • Simple improvement:

    More bears!

  • Rhyse.8179Rhyse.8179 Member ✭✭✭

    What I would do is make the pet fully controllable. Move to location, guard ally, jump of a cliff, whatever. I want to be able to have my pet and I working on different things at different positions on the battlefield. As it is now (and forever) he's just a DOT with a hitbox.

  • Jimbru.6014Jimbru.6014 Member ✭✭✭
    1. I am willing to pay real money for the pets and other rewards from the Hall of Monuments, instead of being forced to spend GW2 time playing GW1. And I'm far from alone in that regard.
    2. Improve pet AI, such my pet isn't running all over the place attracting adds. My pet should always stick close to me, by which I mean the distance to which it comes when I call it, unless it is actually fighting a mob. This includes fixing things like the rock gazelle's charge, which takes it seemingly halfway across the map and out of the fight for several seconds, and the interminable launch time of the fire wyvern.
    3. I've been playing a LB/GS bowpet ranger, which is basically how rangers have been envisioned in the entire history of fantasy gaming, in the GW2 open world for over five years. I shouldn't have to abandon my favorite play style, the traditional ranger play style, just because a raid group is counting decimal points on DPS. Make a pass on ranger weapons to bring their DPS up to equality.
    4. Out of all my pets, I've probably not used half of them at all in over five years of playing a ranger. Brown bear, fern hound, jungle stalker, tiger, jacaranda, rock gazelle, electric wyvern, bristleback and devourers for range, shark and armored fish underwater; that's pretty much it. All the others only get brought out for novelty value or specific situations. Clearly, a lot of pets need a pass made to make them more useful and/or less redundant.
    5. We're long overdue for a dolphin pet. The model already exists in game. Ditto for the other colors of moas, and the "crocodile" scaled drake model from PoF zones. Many other pets that could be added, if only for new looks.
  • @Jimbru.6014
    Honestly tho, the gazelle charge? Most broken kitten shoite i've ever seen on a pet. It clips through terrain , a great example being the aerodome training arena. The bloody pet will actually charge, somehow clip through the cliff and into the water, from where it has to run a huge distance around the side of the arena to get back onto the same level as the enemy.
    Maybe if the gazelle had a teleport to allow for instant repositioning in such case, but that wouldn't thematically make sense. Great pet skills, infuriating execution.

  • So many things to discuss about ranger class design. Rhyse.8179 summarized the core problem pretty well:

    @Rhyse.8179 said:
    What I would do is make the pet fully controllable. Move to location, guard ally, jump of a cliff, whatever. I want to be able to have my pet and I working on different things at different positions on the battlefield. As it is now (and forever) he's just a DOT with a hitbox.

    To which I might add, a separate hit point pool that can result in us being pretty effectively crippled in a way other classes can't—and that tradeoff should be part of our class design, but seems not to be in GW2. Then again, my pets can solo veterans, which in my mind they should not be able to do. There are many situations outside of PvP where I find my pet just doesn't take much damage (or it dies within 5 seconds of course). Very swingy, context-dependent survivability. Anyhow!

    As Rhyse said, the "core mechanic" of the class is sorely oversimplified, and soulbeast is a late semi-fix to the problem, giving us control over 3 of the pet's abilities, but taking away the pet*. I would love to be able to tell my pet where to stay, what to guard, and which attacks to use. Sadly, what we do have is just crappy pathing and combat AI.

    (* Don't get me wrong; I love the design of soulbeast for some of the strategic and tactical options it gives me, but those too are probably not clear to many players, and outside the scope of this post. On the other hand, I do sometimes feel that beast mode is just a different arrangement of food on the plate.)

    As for confusing variety in pets, I will admit to putting together a big color-coded spreadsheet of all the pets, with their stats and special abilities. There is a general design pattern where each family shares a general "role" such as tank, high DPS, condition, etc, with the same AI skills, but differing player-controlled (F2-key) abilities for such things as even more DPS, healing, CC, etc, with of course the odd exception. The pets in each family also vary with which stats they boost for soulbeast, which gives you at least three high-level ways of grouping pets. The thing is, the pet management UI makes this very hard to find out! You have to be familiar with all your pets in order to choose the right one for the job at hand (which is why I made the spreadsheet). I would much rather see a pet management window where, instead of just being shown all the pets, you choose the category (primary this, secondary that, beast mode that), and are shown pets for that job, so you can quickly get what you need. For those who prefer to pick pets by family or just looks, the existing arrangement could remain, of course.

  • @ChartFish.1308 said:
    @Jimbru.6014
    Honestly tho, the gazelle charge? Most broken kitten shoite i've ever seen on a pet. It clips through terrain , a great example being the aerodome training arena. The bloody pet will actually charge, somehow clip through the cliff and into the water, from where it has to run a huge distance around the side of the arena to get back onto the same level as the enemy.
    Maybe if the gazelle had a teleport to allow for instant repositioning in such case, but that wouldn't thematically make sense. Great pet skills, infuriating execution.

    This is the result of the gigantic nerf the gazelle's charge took due to whiny PVPers. I'm not sure how gutting the damage by roughly 3/4 caused it to happen, but it never happened before that.

  • The ranger needs an answer to the deadeye. You guys need rifles. I don't understand how rangers didn't get the rifle as a core weapon to begin with, but here we are, Hunters apparently have to specialize in order to use daggers, but get two handed swords as a core weapon.

  • Structurally, the Ranger isn't too bad but, speaking as someone who prefers to main Ranger types, it just lacks that wow factor. Almost everything about the class seems bland and uninspired. Not really sure what I would suggest to fix it though. Maybe if the next elite spec gave the Ranger a bit more of a geomancer flair? Perhaps a shield, focus (totem), or staff for the next weapon

  • @calb.3128 said:
    While refinement and tweaking is welcome (hello, 80% of pets...), I’m broadly content with the state of the Ranger and do not want a redesign. :)

    Yup. Ranger is already fun to play in a variety of situations. Pets tend to be OP, redundant, or barely niche-useful, so I'd be fine if ANet just refactored what we already have. Heck, I wouldn't mind that much if the only difference between pets within a family was the skin, as long as each family had a strong use in a substantive build.

    "Face the facts. Then act on them. It's ...the only doctrine I have to offer you, & it's harder than you'd think, because I swear humans seem hardwired to do anything but. Face the facts. Don't pray, don't wish, ...FACE THE FACTS. THEN act." — Quellcrist Falconer

  • I honestly would like the pet for the core Ranger to be overall stronger than for Soulbeast and Druid, so those two e-specs keep their juvenile pet but the Ranger gets an adult one, which is bigger visually (really don't like having a puppy at my side) and stronger (more health/damage).

    Otherwise I like the idea of reducing the overall number of pets by cutting the different iteration of the same type, if it means each pet is unique and viable.

  • Jimbru.6014Jimbru.6014 Member ✭✭✭

    @ChartFish.1308 said:
    @Jimbru.6014
    Honestly tho, the gazelle charge? Most broken kitten shoite i've ever seen on a pet. It clips through terrain , a great example being the aerodome training arena. The bloody pet will actually charge, somehow clip through the cliff and into the water, from where it has to run a huge distance around the side of the arena to get back onto the same level as the enemy.
    Maybe if the gazelle had a teleport to allow for instant repositioning in such case, but that wouldn't thematically make sense. Great pet skills, infuriating execution.

    The gazelle should stop when it hits the target, or right behind the target. Not a full bowshot behind the target.

  • @Alchimist.4738 said:
    I honestly would like the pet for the core Ranger to be overall stronger than for Soulbeast and Druid, so those two e-specs keep their juvenile pet but the Ranger gets an adult one, which is bigger visually (really don't like having a puppy at my side) and stronger (more health/damage).

    Otherwise I like the idea of reducing the overall number of pets by cutting the different iteration of the same type, if it means each pet is unique and viable.

    i'm waiting for a beastmaster spec for this tbh lol. they've been neglecting ranger pet traits and skills last two xpacs, so I thirst for one that makes your pet actually viable.

  • Broadly speaking I think the OP is on the right track.

    It's great that rangers have pets, but they've never been equally useful so generally most people use the same few. It's really boring.

    And shapeshifting would be awesome. It's the one thing which could get me interested in rangers again. Obviously depending on implementation. GW2 has a habit of presenting great ideas and then royally screwing them - eg. revenant demon stance. No cooldowns. Hooray! Then you look at the associated traits and 2/3rds have BLEEPING cooldowns. So yeah, I reckon ANET could BLEEP up shapeshifting if they really put their mind to it.

    Still, watching this space. PoF was a complete write off for elite specs, as far as my tastes are concerned so I didn't buy it. But I'll see what the next batch has to offer.

  • DaFishBob.6518DaFishBob.6518 Member ✭✭✭

    @Jimbru.6014 said:

    @ChartFish.1308 said:
    @Jimbru.6014
    Honestly tho, the gazelle charge? Most broken kitten shoite i've ever seen on a pet. It clips through terrain , a great example being the aerodome training arena. The bloody pet will actually charge, somehow clip through the cliff and into the water, from where it has to run a huge distance around the side of the arena to get back onto the same level as the enemy.
    Maybe if the gazelle had a teleport to allow for instant repositioning in such case, but that wouldn't thematically make sense. Great pet skills, infuriating execution.

    The gazelle should stop when it hits the target, or right behind the target. Not a full bowshot behind the target.

    Oh I'm so glad I'm not the only one that hates the gazelle charge. That was actually meant to be a buff so that it would be more likely to hit more targets. I'd rather they revert it with no other change. Or if they must buff it, make it unleash a small shockwave.

  • Jimbru.6014Jimbru.6014 Member ✭✭✭

    @DaFishBob.6518 said:

    @Jimbru.6014 said:

    @ChartFish.1308 said:
    @Jimbru.6014
    Honestly tho, the gazelle charge? Most broken kitten shoite i've ever seen on a pet. It clips through terrain , a great example being the aerodome training arena. The bloody pet will actually charge, somehow clip through the cliff and into the water, from where it has to run a huge distance around the side of the arena to get back onto the same level as the enemy.
    Maybe if the gazelle had a teleport to allow for instant repositioning in such case, but that wouldn't thematically make sense. Great pet skills, infuriating execution.

    The gazelle should stop when it hits the target, or right behind the target. Not a full bowshot behind the target.

    Oh I'm so glad I'm not the only one that hates the gazelle charge. That was actually meant to be a buff so that it would be more likely to hit more targets. I'd rather they revert it with no other change. Or if they must buff it, make it unleash a small shockwave.

    If Anet wants it to hit more targets in a straight line, then have it stop when it hits and unleash a straight line "shockwave" for a short distance, like a burst of the wyvern's wingbeat knockback.

  • Lonami.2987Lonami.2987 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 14, 2018

    @Lonami.2987 said:
    Revisiting the redesign ideas in a short way, plus some new elite specialization ideas to see how this redesign would improve future content too:

    • Ranger: The pet system has been simplified. Now you choose the species first (drake), and then an archetype (fire). The species determines the base skills and attributes, and the archetype unlocks additional skills and attributes, as long as it's enabled for that species. There's five archetypes: Common, Fire, Water, Air, and Earth. Additionally, you can now freely customize your pet's aesthetic with the appearance of any other members of its species, once unlocked. Off-hand sword is enabled by default, and off-hand dagger is made exclusive to soulbeast. Some pet species are merged, and new ones are introduced (raptor, griffon, eel, etc).

    • Druid: Now you can use mechanic skill F5 to temporarily transform your pet into a druidic wisp, disabling it in exchange of druidic skills. Once transformed, your mechanic bar will be upgraded, unlocking new druid skills in mechanic slots F1, F2, and F3. You can still swap pets using F4, swapping to the second pet's wisp. Each pet's archetype determines the type of wisp it will transform into and the mechanic skills unlocked by it (water would unlock healing skills, fire direct damage, etc). Weapon skills are not affected by the pet's transformation, but your character will receive a visual-only drudic form, its color determined by the current archetype. The pet is invulnerable while in wisp form.

    • Soulbeast: Pets are gone, replaced by animal transformations. You can equip two at once, using mechanic skills F1 and F2. The available transformations are Bear (crowd control, amphibian), Cheetah (direct damage, amphibian), Eagle (direct damage, glider), Eel (condition damage, amphibian), Scarab (condition damage, glider), and Stag (support). You can stay transformed as long as you want, only being forced out of the transformation when downed. Transformations change your attributes, increasing or decreasing them depending on the chosen one. Some transformations have gliding enabled, and others can't go underwater, forcing you to swim in the surface. You need to go back to normal to transform to a different animal.

    • Reaver: Pets are gone, replaced by a new mechanic, the swarm. Instead of a single individual, swarms include multiple smaller pets at once, and are commanded simultaneously. The controls are the same as those of pets, and you can swap to an alternate swarm much like when you swapped between pets. Swarm members can be killed individually, respawning automatically after a few seconds. There's six swarm types to choose from: Crabs (amphibian), Elvers (amphibian), Pocket Raptors, Pygmy Moas, Rats (amphibian), and Wasps; each including different skins and options to choose from. Venoms are the new slot skills, and they are applied to both the reaver and all active swarm members.

    • Bloodhound: Both pets are deployed at once, and swapping is no longer available. "Attack My Target" remains at mechanic skill F1, becoming a sequential skill alternating command of each pet. Mechanic skills F2 and F3 include each pet's respective special skill. Mechanic skill F4 includes a new skill, a combo attack involving both pets at once. Mechanic skill F5 includes the "Return to Me" skill, affecting both pets at once. Defeated pets despawn, respawning automatically after a few seconds.

    • Botanist: Pets are gone, replaced by a pouch of seeds. Mechanic skills F1, F2, F3, F4, and F5 let you equip 5 seed bags, individually selected from a list of 10. These seeds hatch when thrown, spawning magic plants with various abilities, including everything from direct damage to group support, most of them qualifying as combo fields as well. Wells are the new slot skills, and they boost the abilities of hatched plants.

    Time for an upgrade. Here's my latest problem identification:

    • There's way too many pets, and they have way too many variables. Either reduce the pet numbers, or simplify them. The numbers are part of what make the pets interesting, so that might be harder to touch.
    • Pet AI is a huge problem, and I don't even know if giving full control will compensate the micromanagement required for it. Maybe less control is the right answer.
    • Lot of people dislike having the pet permanently out. How about making it temporary, like a summoned creature? Pets could become more powerful and meaningful this way.
    • Rangers have a base attribute loss to compensate for the existence of the pet. Would be nice to get rid of it somehow.

    With the above points in mind, here's my current redesign idea:

    • Pets are no longer permanently out, and need to be manually summoned each time. Pets last a finite amount of time, but can also be killed by the enemy. Pets are also stronger now.
    • Each pet type has a basic automatic AI role. Some pets chase their targets, others stay near the ranger, etc. You don't have to worry about commanding it, you know what it does, and you deploy it when the time is right. Each pet type has some basic command skills, but you can no longer control it as much as before. To some point, this would make pets a bit more realistic as well.
    • Since we're working with temporary summons now, some pet types could include multiple units at once. For example, the hound pet type could summon three units instead of one (a pack of wolves), and the spider pet could spawn hatchlings as the battle goes on (spider broodmother).
    • Pets aren't summoned directly to your side, and spawn using a special attack instead. For example, the wyvern hovers around the target and scorches the earth before landing and joining the battle, and the spider immobilizes its target right before it spawns. The idea is that pets stay back, sometimes hiding, until you call them into battle.
    • You can equip two pets, in mechanic slots F1 and F2. Once you summon a pet, the other one is disabled. Mechanic skills F3, F4, and F5 would give you bonus command options, but nothing giving you additional control, just combat perks.
    • Some weapon and slot skills would affect the pet's behavior. You can't give direct commands to a pet anymore once it's deployed, but you can indirectly change its target or role.

    So, pets are pretty much summon minion skills now, but a bit more advanced.

    A strong categorization of the types and what they do would be nice. I'm going for 4x4=16, applying combinatorics to 4 archetypes and 4 roles:

    • Archetypes: Ferocious (bonus power and precision), Stout (bonus toughness and vitality), Deadly (bonus condition damage), and Supportive (bonus healing and concentration). These stats might sound kinda pointless at first, but I would expect skills interacting with pets to benefit from them (like a shout that heals you and your pet based on the combined healing power).
    • Roles: Heavy, Medium, Light, Flying. These pretty much determine the base attributes, and how the AI will react.

    These 4 and 4 combine, yielding the 16 pet types. Each role has its own base attributes, with the archetype applying a bonus over them. Each pet has 3 mechanic skills, found at F3, F4, and F5 once summoned. F3 is determined by the archetype, F4 by role, and F5 is unique to each pet type.

    For underwater combat, we get two whole new water-only categories, with some types sharing skins with the ground versions.

    The forum doesn't like tables too much, so excuse the format. The following table includes the 16 (24 with water) pet types:

    - FEROCIOUS STOUT DEADLY SUPPORTIVE
    HEAVY Bear Drake Beetle Boar
    MEDIUM Panther Serpent Scorpion Moa
    LIGHT Hound Raptor Spider Goat
    FLYING Griffon Wyvern Scarab Bird
    WATER 1 Shark Drake Shrimp Turtle
    WATER 2 Fish Serpent Octopus Jellyfish

    Of course, these are just types defining combat, and might include different species inside. For example:

    • Hound includes wolves, dogs, and hyenas.
    • Panther includes lynxes, lions, rock dogs, smokescales, and tigers.
    • Serpent includes eels and ibogas.
    • Beetle includes crabs.
    • Scorpion includes devourers and bristlebacks.
    • Scarab includes mushrooms and jacarandas.
    • Shrimp includes other crustaceans, like sea scorpions.

    As with my previous ideas, each pet type has multiple pet skins to choose from, none of them affecting the attributes or skills. When you use a hound or a moa, you can choose the skin you want, as long as you have unlocked it.

    What about drake breathing? Some species breath fire, and others ice. You would be able to add effects to pet skills through traits, making them apply specific conditions, in some cases (drakes and wyverns mostly) changing the animation effects as well.

    What about elite specializations?

    • Druid: The celestial avatar, located at F6, changes your weapon skills, the original skills now being tied to the staff. You can weapon swap normally while in the celestial form. While no pet is active, the celestial form is white. Summoning a pet gives the druid bonus attributes tied to the pet's archetype, and changes the celestial form's color (orange for ferocious, green for stout, yellow for deadly, and blue for supportive). Pets are visually affected by the transformation, and gain bonus attributes as well, tied to the druid's own attributes.
    • Soulbeast: Pet skills F1 and F2 are replaced by transformation skills. There's five to choose from, loosely based on each archetype: Panther (ferocious), Serpent (stout, amphibian), Spider (deadly), Stag (supportive), and Shark (ferocious, water-only). These transformations change your physical appearance and effectively turn you into those animals, using unique models that preserve some of your character's gender and racial attributes (for example, a charr panther would have horns, and sylvari panther would have leaves instead of fur). Off-hand dagger becomes exclusive for the soulbeast, and off-hand sword is unlocked for the core ranger in exchange.

    And a few new ones for additional examples:

    • Grovekeeper: The forest is at your command. Instead of summoning pets one by one, you now lead a horde of forest animals. Grow it in combat and set it loose against your enemies. You can't manually control the horde, and you can only decide which random beasts from an archetype to summon. They are far weaker than normal pets, but the overwhelming numbers should be enough to compensate. New weapon: Polearm (melee greataxe/scythe). New slot skills: Well (useful to support your horde). Partially inspired by the Bloomhunger fractal boss.
    • Bloodhound: The perfect hunter. You can now summon both pets at once, with no restrictions. F3, F4, and F5 command skills upgrade to combo pet skills when both pets are deployed at once. New weapon: Rifle (long range). New slot skills: Deception (ambushing).
    • Botanist: Instead of pets, you now summon carnivore plant turrets, based on the original pet archetypes. Heavy on condition damage, with both ranged and melee options. New weapon: Vial (support for plant turrets). New slot skills: Venoms (applied to the turrets as well)

    @TempestMoon.5403 said:
    Structurally, the Ranger isn't too bad but, speaking as someone who prefers to main Ranger types, it just lacks that wow factor. Almost everything about the class seems bland and uninspired. Not really sure what I would suggest to fix it though. Maybe if the next elite spec gave the Ranger a bit more of a geomancer flair? Perhaps a shield, focus (totem), or staff for the next weapon

    I think most slot skills are really bland, and far too dependent on the pet. Elementalist has a similar problem, 6 to 0 is just boring and useless.

    @Caeledh.5437 said:
    Broadly speaking I think the OP is on the right track.

    It's great that rangers have pets, but they've never been equally useful so generally most people use the same few. It's really boring.

    And shapeshifting would be awesome. It's the one thing which could get me interested in rangers again. Obviously depending on implementation. GW2 has a habit of presenting great ideas and then royally screwing them - eg. revenant demon stance. No cooldowns. Hooray! Then you look at the associated traits and 2/3rds have BLEEPING cooldowns. So yeah, I reckon ANET could BLEEP up shapeshifting if they really put their mind to it.

    Still, watching this space. PoF was a complete write off for elite specs, as far as my tastes are concerned so I didn't buy it. But I'll see what the next batch has to offer.

    Yeah, PoF was very disappointing regarding elite specializations, most of them less exciting than the ones we got in HoT. When they first announced them, back before HoT, I expected new mechanics with every new elite specialization, and not just some glorified skill unlocks that in other games would be part of your usual patch-released skill packs.

    They better make the 3rd generation really shine out, or people will just stop caring about them altogether.

  • @Jimbru.6014 said:

    @ChartFish.1308 said:
    @Jimbru.6014
    Honestly tho, the gazelle charge? Most broken kitten shoite i've ever seen on a pet. It clips through terrain , a great example being the aerodome training arena. The bloody pet will actually charge, somehow clip through the cliff and into the water, from where it has to run a huge distance around the side of the arena to get back onto the same level as the enemy.
    Maybe if the gazelle had a teleport to allow for instant repositioning in such case, but that wouldn't thematically make sense. Great pet skills, infuriating execution.

    The gazelle should stop when it hits the target, or right behind the target. Not a full bowshot behind the target.

    Last night when I was in sPVP and I hit F2, Gazelle went under the deck where we fighting, through the slab, just disappear, I saw only her/his name over the deck surface :D .
    I keep and like the ranger like it is now :) . Ofc the main things which should be changed are some (many, unfortunately) pets mechanics, damage, heal etc. I want ranger to rely more on the pet than it is now. As @Alchimist.4738 said, I want the pet to be bigger and stronger, I want his damage to be equal with ranger one, so our actual damage be split in half. I want some pets to be more tanky than ranger is, so we can stand behind him, etc ...

  • UfoCoffee.2084UfoCoffee.2084 Member ✭✭✭

    Enable pet swap in beast mode and balance accordingly. Pet swap and beast mode mechanic and cooldowns feel so clunky and unenjoyable it just makes me go back to druid or another more flowing class.

  • UfoCoffee.2084UfoCoffee.2084 Member ✭✭✭

    @Dragonzhunter.8506 said:

    @Jimbru.6014 said:

    @ChartFish.1308 said:
    @Jimbru.6014
    Honestly tho, the gazelle charge? Most broken kitten shoite i've ever seen on a pet. It clips through terrain , a great example being the aerodome training arena. The bloody pet will actually charge, somehow clip through the cliff and into the water, from where it has to run a huge distance around the side of the arena to get back onto the same level as the enemy.
    Maybe if the gazelle had a teleport to allow for instant repositioning in such case, but that wouldn't thematically make sense. Great pet skills, infuriating execution.

    The gazelle should stop when it hits the target, or right behind the target. Not a full bowshot behind the target.

    Last night when I was in sPVP and I hit F2, Gazelle went under the deck where we fighting, through the slab, just disappear, I saw only her/his name over the deck surface :D .
    I keep and like the ranger like it is now :) . Ofc the main things which should be changed are some (many, unfortunately) pets mechanics, damage, heal etc. I want ranger to rely more on the pet than it is now. As @Alchimist.4738 said, I want the pet to be bigger and stronger, I want his damage to be equal with ranger one, so our actual damage be split in half. I want some pets to be more tanky than ranger is, so we can stand behind him, etc ...

    Sounds good in theory but then we could just Los people and let the pet kill them. Too easy to abuse.

  • @UfoCoffee.2084 said:

    @Dragonzhunter.8506 said:

    @Jimbru.6014 said:

    @ChartFish.1308 said:
    @Jimbru.6014
    Honestly tho, the gazelle charge? Most broken kitten shoite i've ever seen on a pet. It clips through terrain , a great example being the aerodome training arena. The bloody pet will actually charge, somehow clip through the cliff and into the water, from where it has to run a huge distance around the side of the arena to get back onto the same level as the enemy.
    Maybe if the gazelle had a teleport to allow for instant repositioning in such case, but that wouldn't thematically make sense. Great pet skills, infuriating execution.

    The gazelle should stop when it hits the target, or right behind the target. Not a full bowshot behind the target.

    Last night when I was in sPVP and I hit F2, Gazelle went under the deck where we fighting, through the slab, just disappear, I saw only her/his name over the deck surface :D .
    I keep and like the ranger like it is now :) . Ofc the main things which should be changed are some (many, unfortunately) pets mechanics, damage, heal etc. I want ranger to rely more on the pet than it is now. As @Alchimist.4738 said, I want the pet to be bigger and stronger, I want his damage to be equal with ranger one, so our actual damage be split in half. I want some pets to be more tanky than ranger is, so we can stand behind him, etc ...

    Sounds good in theory but then we could just Los people and let the pet kill them. Too easy to abuse.

    In World of Warcraft this wasn't a problem. You must keep in mind that if they will improve pet they should diminish ranger defensive skills. Now are many classes who can hit a ranger which is hidden after a tree or a big rock (mesmer, necro, ele), instead 99% of ranger skills doesn't, we need the target to be in Los. And still we , warrior too, can kill these classes.
    Anyway, like I already said, I like the Soulbeast like it is atm, but I don't mind some changes regarding pets in the future patches.

  • @Lonami.2987 said:
    Yeah, PoF was very disappointing regarding elite specializations, most of them less exciting than the ones we got in HoT. When they first announced them, back before HoT, I expected new mechanics with every new elite specialization, and not just some glorified skill unlocks that in other games would be part of your usual patch-released skill packs.

    The problem for me and possibly many others is that the elites sometimes take a big kitten on the things you like most about the base profession.

    Best thing about rangers is nature theme and pet. Soulbeast gets rid of the pet.

    Best thing about engineers is kits allowing weapon swap without a cooldown. Holosmith both has a cooldown on photon forge and puts cooldowns on kits.

    Best thing about revenants is no / few cooldowns. All but 1 renegade skill has a cooldown and they're not short.

    Deadeye did the unthinkable and introduced a cooldown lite (aka ammunition) to a thief weapon skill, kneel. I was gobsmacked. Also not surprised that ANet later took it off the ammo system.

    Firebrand mantras look nice for my tastes. The ammunition system is a bit more flexible than regular cooldowns and their regen rate for the Firebrand ones are relatively short. But it's still inferior compared to base revenant.

    Scourge barriers look interesting and I'm not bothered by their losing shroud. It's one less cooldown! But necromancy and death don't appeal to me thematically. Other mechanical aspects of necromancer already appeal, eg. pets without limited durations, and it was the last profession I bothered to level to 80 with two more I may never.

    Elementalists are an interesting case. The player base is split between those who like to camp one attunement and those who like to madly jump around between them. HoT and PoF delivered separate elites catering to each. So some would have been happy with one and despised the other. Meanwhile the base profession managed to cater to both separately with different traits.

    @Lonami.2987 said:
    They better make the 3rd generation really shine out, or people will just stop caring about them altogether.

    If you recall, pre PoF they announced their intention to roll out future expansions more quickly. That didn't actually happen and now it seems like there might be another season of living story rather than the next expansion. It's probably safe to infer that PoF also didn't do as well as they'd have liked and that they're re-evaluating lots of things including elites.

    Hopefully they've realised that elites messing with core mechanics like they have is basically SOE's NGE mistake on a smaller scale.

  • Hot Boy.7138Hot Boy.7138 Member ✭✭✭

    i would make shortbow more lethal at range than melee

  • Jimbru.6014Jimbru.6014 Member ✭✭✭

    @Lonami.2987 said:
    Yeah, PoF was very disappointing regarding elite specializations, most of them less exciting than the ones we got in HoT. When they first announced them, back before HoT, I expected new mechanics with every new elite specialization, and not just some glorified skill unlocks that in other games would be part of your usual patch-released skill packs.

    They better make the 3rd generation really shine out, or people will just stop caring about them altogether.

    Mirage is desperately overpowered, and everything Anet has tried to fix it has only hurt non-Mirage mesmers while leaving Mirage still overpowered. I also despise the distortion mechanic replacing normal dodging. The whole spec needs a wash.

    Scourge is fun. It can fit a lot of different play styles depending on build and gear. That's one of the few Anet got right.

    Soulbeast feels underwhelming much of the time, especially with all the condi nerfs. Just additional mechanics to keep track of with little discernable benefit over core ranger.

    Spellbreaker is too situational. Core warrior is better for anything where you don't absolutely need boon stripping.

    Renegade is all ground targeted AOE that doesn't work underwater. You don't realize how annoying that is until you have to contend with it.

    Firebrand has terrible mobility given its up close nature. DH is still underpowered even compared to core guardian. Guardians in general still have kitten self-healing, and their defensive skills are extremely overrated for their low base HP.

  • Lonami.2987Lonami.2987 Member ✭✭✭

    My last idea solves many problems, but it might be too crowded. Also, there's many pets among the current setup that don't fit combat roles too well. Let's try another thing:


    Ranger

    Pets can no longer be selected freely. Instead, you have four biomes to choose from, and each biome has two pets assigned to it:

    • Beasts of Ascalon: Raptor (medium) and Devourer (light).
    • Beasts of Kryta: Drake (heavy) and Hound (medium).
    • Beasts of Maguuma: Panther (medium) and Spider (light).
    • Beasts of the Shiverpeaks: Bear (heavy) and Bird (light).

    Once you have selected a biome, you can swap between its two pets normally. Each pet has a set of unique skills, and its base attributes are determined by its class (heavy, medium, or light). Each individual pet can be customized with different pet skins. Traits allow further customization of skills and attributes.

    The beast skills would be as follows:

    • F1: Charge/Lunge/Leap skill. Counts as a combo finisher.
    • F2: Defensive/Support skill.
    • F3: Ultimate skill. Great damage, usually on area.
    • F4: Pet swap.

    Pets would remain locked at combat with the selected target of their last action. Specific weapon and slot skills allow pet target swapping as well, either automatically or through optional chain skills.

    Off-hand dagger has been replaced by off-hand sword.


    Druid

    You can channel the astral magic of the druids, infusing your pet and yourself with it.

    • F5: Astral Mode. Activate/Deactivate the astral form. No time limit, gets automatically deactivated if downed.

    Once Astral Mode is activated, both your weapon skills and your pet's skills will gain alternate effects (much like elementalist attunements). You can stay on astral form for as long as you want, but your connection to the material world will start fading, gradually reducing your maximum health the longer you stay transformed. This process is represented by a growing ghostly effect over the player and his pet (similar to holosmith heat). Your health can be reduced to a maximum of 50% of the original, and will gradually regenerate once you deactivate the astral mode.

    The idea is to let players calculate the risks of astral mode by themselves, instead of forcing an artificial time limit. Good players will push that limit, risking their life in exchange for longer access to the astral skills.

    The new weapon is the staff, inheriting the original skills of the Celestial Avatar for its astral mode. Glyphs are the new slot skills, gaining alternate effects when astral mode is active.


    Soulbeast

    You can fuse with your pet, acquiring its attributes and skills.

    • F5: Beast Fusion. Activate/Deactivate the fusion with your pet. No time limit, gets automatically deactivated if downed.

    Once Beast Fusion is activated, beast skills F1, F2, and F3 will become chain skills, combining the original pet skills with new weapon skills. Swapping a pet with F4 while you're fused swaps skills and attributes as well. These new skills produce a new resource, called Fusion Power, which boosts pets once you deactivate the fusion. The more fusion power you have, the longer the boost lasts. Successfully performing chain attacks with any of the three beast skills produces fusion power faster.

    The idea is to stay fused until you generate enough fusion power, then deactivate the fusion to spawn stronger pets, and once the boost runs out, fuse once again to produce more fusion power. You can remain fused for as long as you want, but that's not the ideal gameplay.

    The new weapons are main-hand and off-hand daggers. Stances are the new slot skills, giving bonuses to both yourself and the pet if you're not fused, and double bonuses to yourself if you're fused.


    As a bonus, each elite specialization could include a new biome:

    • Druid - Beasts of the Falls: Beetle (heavy) and Wyvern (medium).
    • Soulbeast - Beasts of Elona: Serpent (medium) and Scarab (light).

    These might be exclusive for the elite specialization, or become available for the whole profession.


    I think this works much more better than anything I made so far.

    @UfoCoffee.2084 said:
    Enable pet swap in beast mode and balance accordingly. Pet swap and beast mode mechanic and cooldowns feel so clunky and unenjoyable it just makes me go back to druid or another more flowing class.

    I'm kinda surprised it doesn't already work that way.

    @Hot Boy.7138 said:
    i would make shortbow more lethal at range than melee

    I would redesign it altogether, to be fair.

  • InsaneQR.7412InsaneQR.7412 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @""Lonami.2987"
    Just to keep you up to date.
    I am still working on my ranger rework.
    Part 1 pets are done.
    Currently working on core ranger.

    My elite spec ideas are a little bit fleshed out already.

    For druid i chose to give it a more revenant like feel to it.
    You have sun or moon form and your pet has the other.
    You can produce either sun or moon force up until you hit a max were you have to force swap.
    Sun is responsible for dmg and boons and moon is responsible for heal and CC.

    Petswap is replaced with aspect swap.

    F5 is still celestial avatar but has two forms too and is responsible for consuming astral force.
    While the utilities which are now aspects (like the herld utilities) and weaponskills generate said force.
    Goal is to juggle the energy and constantly generate it while consume it.
    Adapt on the fly and support your allies with boons and heals.

    Depending on moon or sun form your pets skills change and your mark skills do too.

    For soulbeast i do not chabge the mechanic very much except that you no longer have 2 pets and that you gain glyphs as utilities instead of stances, so your archetypes matters a bit more.

  • I like the current status of the ranger, but if I could change something I would change.
    Core ranger:
    I would like to make changes to pets, I would like some pets to be faster in launching their skills (f2 wolf / birds for example) and that the user can use every skill of the pets whenever he wants, without relying on AI.
    The pet is part of our damage, but somehow they work as two separate subjects, the traits like Fortifying Bond should be reworked, I think it is wrong to have to choose a trait to share the boons with part of our damage, I add that the minor traits Marksman could get buffs because at the moment they are pretty useless.
    Druid:
    Restore Seed of Life, allow this ability to remove 2 conditions again, so as to give an alternative to WS for cleaning conditions and reviewing people using glyphs, Celestial avatar, I would remove the ground targetting from skill 1 and give a greater range of action at skills 2 and 4.
    I would not change anything at Soulbeast I like it. xD

    I hope in the future there is the possibility of obtaining a speclization without pets, I consider it almost impossible to make them competitive within zergs, it is the only plausible way in my opinion that we could obtain a valid zerg build.

  • I would love to be able to customize pet appearance. Skins or even cosmetic armor pieces or something like that.

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