Current Barrier is TOO OP

This is coming from someone who plays Scourge.

The 2nd iteration of barrier was fine.

Barrier right now, is way too strong. Even with the minor condi nerf overall, current barrier mitigates damage so consistently along with the complete condi bomb is really unfair.

Either Barrier stays in its current state, by all barrier skills amount gets reduced by half at most.

Or bring back degeneration over time like before but refine it.

Barrier is making Scourge really imbalanced, the condi damage is enough atm. The barrier needs to be tuned down. Too much defense with too much condi damage.

It's really harder now for Power builds to counter Scourge in comparison to against other condi builds/classes. I'm simply too effective against them.

*Not to mention, you can't DEBUFF barrier unlike boons, it's a consistent dmg mitigation too often for a high dmg condi build, there needs to be trade off. We are already taking advantage of the fact we can use dire or trailblazer armor without sacrificing condi dmg.

From reading your post I can see that ... reaper is fine ?

Barrier is op (which numbers are already lower sometime ago so wtf your talking about) when f4 is like 15 second cooldown 5-6k barrier and this is too much ?

And what exactly scourge has after no mobility, no evades , no block , no stealth ...

Your full of bs m8 go whine elsewhere

@"Vag.5682" said:From reading your post I can see that ... reaper is fine ?

Barrier is op (which numbers are already lower sometime ago so kitten your talking about) when f4 is like 15 second cooldown 5-6k barrier and this is too much ?

And what exactly scourge has after no mobility, no evades , no block , no stealth ...

Your full of bs m8 go whine elsewhere

Lol you talk as if you don't know who you are talking to. I PLAY SCOURGE, lol.

I know exactly how it plays, strengths and weaknesses. That's the point of this post, its coming from someone who PLAYS scourge, not trying to fight against it. I feel too strong, not really balanced.

I'm aware "it doesn't have this, or doesn't have that" that point is that it has enough. Has a port and stab/stunbreak skill for mobility, and really Scourge covers such a large area around the enemy and around themselves, they can get away with what alot of other classes have.

Simply put, the condi's it can dish out, (which have been balanced somewhat already) but with current barrier, its unbalanced and needs to be tuned down.

AS A SCOURGE, I can still admit, Scourge is OP, but really its just the barrier mechanic is overtuned.

I understand your pain.

Most meta builds involves having some form of boons coverage and scourge happens to be very good at punishing builds with boons.Add to that a very strong barriers system and they can be hard to take down on point when you are getting laid with weakness.

The first class that needs a look at though is Mirage imo. They are way deadlier and harder to take down than a Scourge. Scourge has natural predators like anything range and mobile with high damage. Mirage? Another mirage probably.

I recommend looking on YouTube for videos on fights against Scourges. They are very informative and show you how to take down a Scourge.

I would have love to post my friend's video here but for fear of all the toxic responses that might be generated.

@Vag.5682 said:From reading your post I can see that ... reaper is fine ?

Barrier is op (which numbers are already lower sometime ago so kitten your talking about) when f4 is like 15 second cooldown 5-6k barrier and this is too much ?

And what exactly scourge has after no mobility, no evades , no block , no stealth ...

Your full of bs m8 go whine elsewhere

I think that this was pretty over the top toxicity. Also necro does have portals so has SOME mobility (Don't go flying off the handle and say that it isn't anything, it is something.)

Regarding the op's statement - I think he is saying that Barrier, in its current form, seems op when taking advantage of certain stat configurations. To this i agree to the extent that it seems strong, but i actually don't think Barrier is the issue. Barrier is an annoyance, but the mechanic would be fine if we could 'wait it out' like so many other mechanics in the game. The issue is it is very difficult to do this when Scourge has access to so much damage, and has some level of mobility/movement impeding conditions to keep you close to keep dealing that damage.

Also consider barrier on a scourge that doesn't have toughness and vitality - the strength of barrier would not be so much of an issue. Its the combination of these stats that make it seem op. Trailblazer stats are pretty silly to have in the game but thats not going to change. The only way i see this changing is when Anet continue to address the application of conditions and their damage, to allow players to deal (some) safe damage without being a pewpew ranger.

If its so op scourges will be king of duelists. Find a single thread with scourge solo roaming and beating 1vs1 skilful duelsists.

Scourges is the easiest class to takedown that's why they tend to be babysit more than anyone else.

a 5k every15 second is nothing and a 2k every 5 is merely an autocrit. At least I speak with numbers and not bs theorycrafting.

Of course these are for dps scourge , sup scourge has way better barriers but no damage so if you feel support scourge is op ...o well

consider that scourge doesn't have any active block , evade , stealth or general mobility yea pretty much op is trolling

edit play scourge and know a scourge is total different thing

@Vag.5682 said:If its so op scourges will be king of duelists. Find a single thread with scourge solo roaming and beating 1vs1 skilful duelsists.

Scourges is the easiest class to takedown that's why they tend to be babysit more than anyone else.

a 5k every15 second is nothing and a 2k every 5 is merely an autocrit. At least I speak with numbers and not bs theorycrafting.

consider that scourge doesn't have any active block , evade , stealth or general mobility yea pretty much op is trolling

edit play scourge and know a scourge is total different thing

Find a single thread where a equally skilled scourge plays vs an equally skilled player. You wont.

Also, dont be ridiculous, scourge is not the 'easiest class to takedown'. Stop just saying off the cuff comments and try to be more considered with feedback.

i mean, NO.

it's still inferior to aegis, distortion, evades so there's that.

Barrier is worse than standard shroud of necro or reaper when it comes to damage mitigation as well since they both have an innate -50% damage to every type of incoming damage including fall damage.

The current implementation is also less powerful in the sense that granting yourself more barrier doesn't refresh the old. This means a group of stacked scourge in some games modes don't run around with permanent +50%no shield. Also means that in classes that grant themselves a tiny bit of barrier that recieving more barrier doesn't allow them to maintain high amount of it. Because if this it also makes adding more sources if barrier into the game on other classes without it blowing out of proportion easier.

It's also far better as a support mechanic which is one of the aspects of scourge and a potential build path.

I feel this change made barrier as a mechanic better, more balanced, easier to balance each skill and far more flexible for implementation amoung other things

Barrier is fine, the damage is not. Would be a decent support if they cut the damage massively and nerf Firebrand. Therefore buff reaper damage for pve.

I do not play scourge, though scourge survivability is by no means it’s strongest suit. Barrier is okay. In fact, I am in favor of buffing scourge support capabilities and damage as long as they remove or significantly nerf boon corruption. That will be far more balanced in every game mode.

Introduction of Scourge - "Barrier sucks"Bug Fix Patch and Barrier decay delay - "Barrier useless"Patch to remove condi bursts and improve viability to barrier - "OMG BARRIERZ ARE TOTALLEH OPZ! NERFZ NERFZ NERFZ"

There's just no pleasing you people -_- Barrier is the only defense scourge has. And even with that, no other class is as easily burstable as scourge. And I play both Scourge and power Reaper in pvp; as a power Reaper, yes, scourge is a nightmare to deal with, but once there's an opening, no other class (except maybe thief due to low health [ele's sustain mitigates the downside of low health]) is as easily punishable as scourge.

Tzozef, what game mode are you talking about?Also, by "DEBUFF", you mean boon-strip, right?

Barrier is a mechanic that reminds me of mobility skills. Arenanet made it so conditions and boons do not affect mobility skills some time ago. I forget when.

Barriers also come with some constraints not normal to boons.

• Barrier duration is not affected by concentration.
• Barrier "size" is affected by healing, not vitality as one might think, so there is a real trade required for larger barriers.
• Barrier does not block conditions or direct damage so it can be removed by damage before its expiration.
• Barriers are not like blocks or other immunity skills so they will only mitigate a fixed amount of spike damage with the remaining damage coming directly from health.
• Barriers consume LF. No LF, no barrier.

@Sigmoid.7082 said:Barrier is worse than standard shroud of necro or reaper when it comes to damage mitigation as well since they both have an innate -50% damage to every type of incoming damage including fall damage.

The current implementation is also less powerful in the sense that granting yourself more barrier doesn't refresh the old. This means a group of stacked scourge in some games modes don't run around with permanent +50%no shield. Also means that in classes that grant themselves a tiny bit of barrier that recieving more barrier doesn't allow them to maintain high amount of it. Because if this it also makes adding more sources if barrier into the game on other classes without it blowing out of proportion easier.

It's also far better as a support mechanic which is one of the aspects of scourge and a potential build path.

I feel this change made barrier as a mechanic better, more balanced, easier to balance each skill and far more flexible for implementation amoung other things

Reaper shroud is inferior to a scrouge's barriers in damage mitigation. Once a reader's shroud has been burned off (pretty easy to do considering the 5% passive drain), the reaper is left w/o shroud and w/ inferior tools for regaining life force. Scrouge has an easier time regaining life force in a fight and will be continuing to apply barriers long after a reaper has been left w/o its shroud.

@Tzozef.9841 said:

@"kitten.5682" said:From reading your post I can see that ... reaper is fine ?

Barrier is op (which numbers are already lower sometime ago so kitten your talking about) when f4 is like 15 second cooldown 5-6k barrier and this is too much ?

And what exactly scourge has after no mobility, no evades , no block , no stealth ...

Your full of bs m8 go whine elsewhere

yeah that's something we've never read before on these boards. /s

Any competent Player that plays any class with a Burst build will laugh on Scourge barrier.....

All i can say to the OP is... Stop fighting bads....

@Tzozef.9841 said:This is coming from someone who plays Scourge.

The 2nd iteration of barrier was fine.

Barrier right now, is way too strong. Even with the minor condi nerf overall, current barrier mitigates damage so consistently along with the complete condi bomb is really unfair.

Either Barrier stays in its current state, by all barrier skills amount gets reduced by half at most.

Or bring back degeneration over time like before but refine it.

Barrier is making Scourge really imbalanced, the condi damage is enough atm. The barrier needs to be tuned down. Too much defense with too much condi damage.

It's really harder now for Power builds to counter Scourge in comparison to against other condi builds/classes. I'm simply too effective against them.

*Not to mention, you can't DEBUFF barrier unlike boons, it's a consistent dmg mitigation too often for a high dmg condi build, there needs to be trade off. We are already taking advantage of the fact we can use dire or trailblazer armor without sacrificing condi dmg.

nice troll! its so funny, every day a new thread that cry for nerfing EVERYTHING that scourge have. scourge only have dmg, boncorrupt and some barrier, thats all. and people permanently say all that is OP and need nerfs...so they wish that scourge should have what? the chance to be a freebaggy for everyone else.

@Shadowcat.2680 said:

@Sigmoid.7082 said:Barrier is worse than standard shroud of necro or reaper when it comes to damage mitigation as well since they both have an innate -50% damage to every type of incoming damage including fall damage.

The current implementation is also less powerful in the sense that granting yourself more barrier doesn't refresh the old. This means a group of stacked scourge in some games modes don't run around with permanent +50%no shield. Also means that in classes that grant themselves a tiny bit of barrier that recieving more barrier doesn't allow them to maintain high amount of it. Because if this it also makes adding more sources if barrier into the game on other classes without it blowing out of proportion easier.

It's also far better as a support mechanic which is one of the aspects of scourge and a potential build path.

I feel this change made barrier as a mechanic better, more balanced, easier to balance each skill and far more flexible for implementation amoung other things

Reapers have far more LF gain than any other necro spec.

@Zero.3871 said:

@Tzozef.9841 said:This is coming from someone who plays Scourge.

The 2nd iteration of barrier was fine.

Barrier right now, is way too strong. Even with the minor condi nerf overall, current barrier mitigates damage so consistently along with the complete condi bomb is really unfair.

Either Barrier stays in its current state, by all barrier skills amount gets reduced by half at most.

Or bring back degeneration over time like before but refine it.

Barrier is making Scourge really imbalanced, the condi damage is enough atm. The barrier needs to be tuned down. Too much defense with too much condi damage.

It's really harder now for Power builds to counter Scourge in comparison to against other condi builds/classes. I'm simply too effective against them.

*Not to mention, you can't DEBUFF barrier unlike boons, it's a consistent dmg mitigation too often for a high dmg condi build, there needs to be trade off. We are already taking advantage of the fact we can use dire or trailblazer armor without sacrificing condi dmg.

Good thing Scourge has soo much damage, boonhate, and barrier that its completely taken over the PvP meta.

@Crinn.7864 said:

@Zero.3871 said:

@Tzozef.9841 said:This is coming from someone who plays Scourge.

The 2nd iteration of barrier was fine.

Barrier right now, is way too strong. Even with the minor condi nerf overall, current barrier mitigates damage so consistently along with the complete condi bomb is really unfair.

Either Barrier stays in its current state, by all barrier skills amount gets reduced by half at most.

Or bring back degeneration over time like before but refine it.

Barrier is making Scourge really imbalanced, the condi damage is enough atm. The barrier needs to be tuned down. Too much defense with too much condi damage.

It's really harder now for Power builds to counter Scourge in comparison to against other condi builds/classes. I'm simply too effective against them.

*Not to mention, you can't DEBUFF barrier unlike boons, it's a consistent dmg mitigation too often for a high dmg condi build, there needs to be trade off. We are already taking advantage of the fact we can use dire or trailblazer armor without sacrificing condi dmg.

bs, scourge without support is ez kill for every range and high mobility class.

@Tzozef.9841 said:

@"kitten.5682" said:From reading your post I can see that ... reaper is fine ?

Barrier is op (which numbers are already lower sometime ago so kitten your talking about) when f4 is like 15 second cooldown 5-6k barrier and this is too much ?

And what exactly scourge has after no mobility, no evades , no block , no stealth ...

Your full of bs m8 go whine elsewhere

Self-haters are the worst, BUT, I think, while you may alt a Scourge, you really main something else entirely. Barrier, of all things, is not OP.

@Zero.3871 said:

bs, scourge without support is ez kill for every range and high mobility class.

Yeah whats the point ?With support it literally dominates everything ... weve had that for ages with condi reaper and everyone cried for nerfs.But now its different rite ? x)

Is barrier affected by "unblockable" mechanics?If not, then it should ( a counter to barrier could be the choice to use an unblockable skill in order to deal dmg to the Player HP instead of Barrier HP ).

@"Shirlias.8104" said:Is barrier affected by "unblockable" mechanics?If not, then it should ( a counter to barrier could be the choice to use an unblockable skill in order to deal dmg to the Player HP instead of Barrier HP ).

..... No it should not. That doesnt even adress the problem barrier creates atm and would make playing scourge really frustrating.

@ZombieSlayeR.8702 said:

@"Shirlias.8104" said:Is barrier affected by "unblockable" mechanics?If not, then it should ( a counter to barrier could be the choice to use an unblockable skill in order to deal dmg to the Player HP instead of Barrier HP ).

Frustrating?It should only prevent them to save themselves with barrier if the opponent saved his "piercing" attack for the last blow.

I smell more fear than frustration.