Too many lasting AOE / channeling skills

Let me explain myself before reacting to the discussion title.

First, almost everyone knows elementalist has been top damage on benchmark for quite a while. However it wasn't that good in real situations (especially in raids) before Weaver came out. Probably cause of specific mechanics (sabetha, cairn,...) or bosses moving too much (ex: VG, matthias) Then pvp wise dps builds were not viable for years since it has only survivability with tempest and still the same happening with weaver. Except for the braindead fresh air build core and weaver ...only good at kitting and "ganking".

Then, for me the elementalist has a fundamental bad design that keeps being reapplied through the years. Adding more and more lasting AOE that doens't deal that much dmg per ticks but with one another deals tons of damage. The main problem is : if the target run - blink - evade - invul out of those .... these lasting AOEs are useless and you have heavy cd's (almost) on it. Recently, we got weaver. The same design was applied to the staff, more AOEs. Than we can look at the sword and those brand new skills.

Weirdly some of the skills were pretty good but lacking dmg . Got fixed a little bit last patch (double air 3). BUT then we look at all the damaging skill we can see the reminiscence of that AOE design that are badly made :Fire sword 2 : not the biggest dmg from the AOE but we can feel the design.Fire-AIR weaving skill : kind of eruption that deals decent dmg if you take it all... Almost never happen in pvpDouble Earth 3 : is a channeling skill but has the same problem than the ele's AOE since it's not mobile.

SO my point is: Ele's dps shouldn't be that dependent of the stacking of his AOEs. I think successive (not instant as fresh air) high damaging abilities instead of all these AOEs would make the elementalist more able of fullfilling the role of dps class in any kind of game mode even with a staff or a sword. Less channeling skills or AOEs with low ticks dmg over a period of (long) time and more one hit skills.

I know AOEs are the main skills that increase the dps metter but I think it's too much at this state. TAke the example of holosmith ... not that much lasting AOE dmg but still high dmg (even if ppl complains about it on forums)

PS: I volontary didn't talk about the fresh air aspect here ... since it's specific to the scepter weapon.

The same could be said for stacking self support aoe and boons. Getting to much out of stealth and aoe stealth effects.Ele must stack aoe because most of the dmg effects are bad scaling and are just power dmg with no real lasting condi dmg effect outside of burning that is often impossible for the ele to hid from clears.

Simply put ele lacks any real dmg tools other then the dmg of the attk and aoe stacking so unless your going to give ele boon strip more condi dmg types (poison) real unblockable dmg effects or even quickness i don't see ele being viable for dmg with out aoe stacking.

@Jski.6180 said:Ele must stack aoe because most of the dmg effects are bad scaling and are just power dmg with no real lasting condi dmg effect outside of burning that is often impossible for the ele to hid from clears.

Simply put ele lacks any real dmg tools other then the dmg of the attk and aoe stacking so unless your going to give ele boon strip more condi dmg types (poison) real unblockable dmg effects or even quickness i don't see ele being viable for dmg with out aoe stacking.

You're abording a good point there "bad scaling" power/ferocity scale has always been bad on ele (remembers me of D/D ele being nerfed cause dealing too many dmg with 25 might stacks)But skill wise , I think leaving some lasting AOE as it is (as lava font since it has low cd) but replacing redondant ones with brand new skills with high power modifier. you won't see any skill on staff hitting for 9k+ with one hit. (in pvp remember not in pve with might + all trait/buffs)

And fixing the few skills that 's that way on sword (and maybe dagger off hand) could help . But yeah you'(re true in the condi aspect ! but i've never wanted the ele to be condi and as you said , it hasn't any condi potentiel except burn (that got nerfed again and again) or maybe few bleeds (that are hard too apply mostly)

@Jski.6180 said:The same could be said for stacking self support aoe and boons. Getting to much out of stealth and aoe stealth effects.

I don't understand what you meant here .... I can't relate to that as an elementalist . COuld you be more specific plz?

@Nath Forge Tempete.1645 said:

@"Jski.6180" said:Ele must stack aoe because most of the dmg effects are bad scaling and are just power dmg with no real lasting condi dmg effect outside of burning that is often impossible for the ele to hid from clears.

Simply put ele lacks any real dmg tools other then the dmg of the attk and aoe stacking so unless your going to give ele boon strip more condi dmg types (poison) real unblockable dmg effects or even quickness i don't see ele being viable for dmg with out aoe stacking.

@"Jski.6180" said:The same could be said for stacking self support aoe and boons. Getting to much out of stealth and aoe stealth effects.

That 9k dmg is very easy to "miss" as in very easy to block evade and healed though getting to my other point is that there so many support effects that your able to hide from most of ele's aoe stacking dmg.

Ele is a raw dmg class it lacks: unblockable, counters to high def boons, counter to heals, counter to barriers, counter to high mobility, and counter to high def classes or 0 dmg effects.

Aoe stacking is purely a means of punishing players from standing in one places to long the make reason for PAoe and the staff as a wepon a zone control wepon. If you take that away from ele you ended the class comply.

Because ele is supposed to be op tier vs dummies. That's how it is balanced.

@Jski.6180 said:

@Nath Forge Tempete.1645 said:

@Jski.6180 said:Ele must stack aoe because most of the dmg effects are bad scaling and are just power dmg with no real lasting condi dmg effect outside of burning that is often impossible for the ele to hid from clears.

Simply put ele lacks any real dmg tools other then the dmg of the attk and aoe stacking so unless your going to give ele boon strip more condi dmg types (poison) real unblockable dmg effects or even quickness i don't see ele being viable for dmg with out aoe stacking.

@Jski.6180 said:The same could be said for stacking self support aoe and boons. Getting to much out of stealth and aoe stealth effects.

Sword could be like that ! since it provides a large palet of CC making the big skills harder to counter ... But even with 2 consecutive buffs it's still not enough tho. (And always the problem of being dependent of water traitline for cleanse since a lot of condies are part of the meta and u are melee with sword)

@Nath Forge Tempete.1645 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@Nath Forge Tempete.1645 said:

@Jski.6180 said:Ele must stack aoe because most of the dmg effects are bad scaling and are just power dmg with no real lasting condi dmg effect outside of burning that is often impossible for the ele to hid from clears.

Simply put ele lacks any real dmg tools other then the dmg of the attk and aoe stacking so unless your going to give ele boon strip more condi dmg types (poison) real unblockable dmg effects or even quickness i don't see ele being viable for dmg with out aoe stacking.

@Jski.6180 said:The same could be said for stacking self support aoe and boons. Getting to much out of stealth and aoe stealth effects.

I would love to see sword get more condi types and unblockable cc.