Raid Elitism Happening In Fractals - Page 19 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Raid Elitism Happening In Fractals

1131415161719>

Comments

  • Its really simple. Cuz ppl have limited time, and want to do fractals as fast as possible. With good players with meta build u can do 100 and 99 CMS with T4 and rec, in below 1 hour. Kinda better than wiping with full elementalist party for 2h

  • @Grogba.6204 said:
    May I remind you that for the longest time only Chrono, Berserker and Tempest were even desired

    Wow, a lot has changed there! Btw, I always advocate to start looking at whole classes/professions first, ANet still has a lot of balancing to do there, and then they can look at balancing every single specialization (which will be far more complex).

    and that nowadays every class has at least one competitive DPS build, including Ranger, Engineer, Necromancer, Mesmer and Thief? Things are moving forward.

    It's always funny how these arguments comes in well-put stories, but never really backed up with real numbers. And if they do come with real numbers, it's almost always anecdotal!
    There are sites out there that proof the difference though! Or do you find differences up to 20% competitive?

    Again - and as always - it boils down to: What works within the game's parameters =/= what the average player considers optimal

    I'm not sure if I get you right here (I really don't, it's not an attack or anything)? Do you consider the makers of above mentioned sites (which are main influencers to the masses) average players? I think they do a hell of a job benchmarking, statistically proof, min-maxing countless builds to inform that so called average player! You can almost call them experts in the field. So I'd rather listen to these people, that clearly show, backed up by numbers (not anecdotal stories), that some professions are underwhelming to say the least (and have been for most of the time), than to listen to random stories on these forums! And I know there are quite a few people out there that have a bond (be it because they're locked/geared into it or for whatever other reason) with a certain profession, and I can only understand that they all want to be optimal for once, and not just a viable option!

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 28, 2018

    @Agrippa Oculus.3726 said:

    @Grogba.6204 said:
    May I remind you that for the longest time only Chrono, Berserker and Tempest were even desired

    Wow, a lot has changed there! Btw, I always advocate to start looking at whole classes/professions first, ANet still has a lot of balancing to do there, and then they can look at balancing every single specialization (which will be far more complex).

    and that nowadays every class has at least one competitive DPS build, including Ranger, Engineer, Necromancer, Mesmer and Thief? Things are moving forward.

    It's always funny how these arguments comes in well-put stories, but never really backed up with real numbers. And if they do come with real numbers, it's almost always anecdotal!
    There are sites out there that proof the difference though! Or do you find differences up to 20% competitive?

    Again - and as always - it boils down to: What works within the game's parameters =/= what the average player considers optimal

    I'm not sure if I get you right here (I really don't, it's not an attack or anything)? Do you consider the makers of above mentioned sites (which are main influencers to the masses) average players? I think they do a hell of a job benchmarking, statistically proof, min-maxing countless builds to inform that so called average player! You can almost call them experts in the field. So I'd rather listen to these people, that clearly show, backed up by numbers (not anecdotal stories), that some professions are underwhelming to say the least (and have been for most of the time), than to listen to random stories on these forums! And I know there are quite a few people out there that have a bond (be it because they're locked/geared into it or for whatever other reason) with a certain profession, and I can only understand that they all want to be optimal for once, and not just a viable option!

    Your mistake is you are looking at a benchmark site instead of looking what is actually being played and/or required.

    First off, the top and bottom dps are by far closer now than ever or in past balance cycles of raids. 20% is nothing compared to some class not being represented AT ALL in the past.

    Second, every single fight can be completed easy with any of the benchmarked classes, even if their golem benchmark might be lower based on player skill, favorism of fights (power vs condi vs difficulty vs encounter design) and synergy benefits being lower with standard compositions.

    If you want a realistic representation of what is being played, check a site which tracks raids and classes played like gw2raidar. Then realize that your assumptions are wrong and a lot of players actually play an incorrect class which is most often to difficult for their skill level (especially in PUG groups).

  • Xar.1387Xar.1387 Member ✭✭
    edited November 29, 2018

    When there's no new challengies added regularly into the game (in raids), then people starts to find those challengies on ther own (everywhere in the game). And changes even easy content into something pseudo-hardcore. Heres where pseudo-elitism and toxicity grows.
    Like... People care 2much about dps - and they require from others alot more than needed. Also players wants to do some things faster and faster.
    While doing it slower irritates them. They require more and more KP's. Etc, etc.
    Doing same things over and over makes it.

    That's why GW2 is really weird ;d "Casual MMORPG" full of frustrated people which desperately looks for challengies. On their own. Everywhere.

    http://aiwe.eu - Polish (RolePlay / Raid / PvP) guild

  • @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    Today I have a situation where I join a CM group. We start with Dru/Chr/BS/Holo/My DH. We finish 100 and get to Ensolyss with no wipes, then the Chr has to leave. Rather than posting for another Chro, some guy invites his friend into the party and it's another Holo. Then for whatever reason he asks me "can you chrono?" I tell him no, because this Power DH is the only character I have geared for fractals. He says "sorry man" and I get vote kicked out of the party because apparently they'd rather have two Holos, kick me, and then search for a Chr?

    Lots of stuff like this happening lately if you aren't running a preferred elite meta. People don't even have enough respect to let you finish a fractal that you've played all the way to the end of. The disgusting thing is how it wouldn't matter at all if we didn't even bring a Chr into the Ensolyss fight or even if we had tried to 4 man it. The group was strong and we would have completed it one way or the other. But it was important to kick the Power DH for 2x Holos and the Chrono. Important enough to disregard someone's time invested.

    Elitist habits at their finest ^

    Thats why we need to remove kick and leave mechanic

  • Grogba.6204Grogba.6204 Member ✭✭✭

    @Vinceman.4572 said:
    Oh yeah, I would love to see my char(s) stuck forever in several fractals because I got incompetent players into my team and I can never get rid of them until I succeed or delete my char.

    GW2 but it's Diablo II's Hell mode!

  • phs.6089phs.6089 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 29, 2018

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    Today I have a situation where I join a CM group. We start with Dru/Chr/BS/Holo/My DH. We finish 100 and get to Ensolyss with no wipes, then the Chr has to leave. Rather than posting for another Chro, some guy invites his friend into the party and it's another Holo. Then for whatever reason he asks me "can you chrono?" I tell him no, because this Power DH is the only character I have geared for fractals. He says "sorry man" and I get vote kicked out of the party because apparently they'd rather have two Holos, kick me, and then search for a Chr?

    Lots of stuff like this happening lately if you aren't running a preferred elite meta. People don't even have enough respect to let you finish a fractal that you've played all the way to the end of. The disgusting thing is how it wouldn't matter at all if we didn't even bring a Chr into the Ensolyss fight or even if we had tried to 4 man it. The group was strong and we would have completed it one way or the other. But it was important to kick the Power DH for 2x Holos and the Chrono. Important enough to disregard someone's time invested.

    Elitist habits at their finest ^

    That is not elitism tho. Elitism would be: Link me your infusions and if you don't have full +5/9s on-kick. (hypothetical, i know infusions can't be shown in chat)

    I dream of elves in GW2.

  • Trevor Boyer.6524Trevor Boyer.6524 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 29, 2018

    @Laila Lightness.8742 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    Today I have a situation where I join a CM group. We start with Dru/Chr/BS/Holo/My DH. We finish 100 and get to Ensolyss with no wipes, then the Chr has to leave. Rather than posting for another Chro, some guy invites his friend into the party and it's another Holo. Then for whatever reason he asks me "can you chrono?" I tell him no, because this Power DH is the only character I have geared for fractals. He says "sorry man" and I get vote kicked out of the party because apparently they'd rather have two Holos, kick me, and then search for a Chr?

    Lots of stuff like this happening lately if you aren't running a preferred elite meta. People don't even have enough respect to let you finish a fractal that you've played all the way to the end of. The disgusting thing is how it wouldn't matter at all if we didn't even bring a Chr into the Ensolyss fight or even if we had tried to 4 man it. The group was strong and we would have completed it one way or the other. But it was important to kick the Power DH for 2x Holos and the Chrono. Important enough to disregard someone's time invested.

    Elitist habits at their finest ^

    Thats why we need to remove kick and leave mechanic

    Yeah I've started to think about what kind of systems could be implemented to help resolve these issues. You probably think I'm embellishing this and I am not: "I have had more inconveniences with random kicking and unnecessary party reformation within the last 2 months, than I have had in the last 6 years combined. I am not yet sure what exactly is influencing this new behavior, but people in fractals are starting to get weird. And this time I wouldn't even call it elitism.. it's just random favoritism of one class or player over another.

    I remember old dungeon runs or even just 2 years ago in fractals, if the party was solid and getting things done, no one would vote kick anyone, they'd just finish. Even if the DPS felt slightly lower than normal or if there was one guy who needed to be picked up off the ground a few times, if it was doable people just finished. Nowadays they kick each other over nitpicky reasons, any nitpicky reason.

    Maybe this is a good idea:

    • Remove vote kicking while in a fractal.
    • Keep party vote to return to fractal organizational lobby.
    • Allow party to directly vote kick while standing in organizational lobby, before actually going into a fractal.
    • This way, if a party is mid fractal run and really wants to vote kick a player, they would have to return to the organizational lobby to do it, which would mean that the progress of that fractal would reset for all 5 players and not just the 1 player who is vote kicked. This would encourage any party, for the purpose of saving time for everyone, to just finish the fractal "if it is doable" and vote kick the guy out afterwards, before starting a new fractal. If the party deems the fractal is not "doable" with the person they need to vote kick, then they will return to the lobby to more carefully select a player to enter the fractal with. This would eliminate almost all unfair vote kicks mid-fractal, saving a lot of people a lot of wasted time. This also plainly encourages all party members to get along while in the fractal and to actually help and teach each other for the purpose of completing the fractal at hand. The more I think about it, this is probably the way it should have worked from the beginning.
    • And of course if a player straight up leaves the party mid fractal, the party can still bring another player in directly from LFG without needing to return to lobby.

    ^ I certainly hope Arenanet reads that, because it would immediately solve most of the problems players experience with LFG abuse in fractals. As far as other gamemodes are concerned, I think the current system works just fine.

    The 10 Commandments Of Conquest
    Abide by the commandments or God shalt deliver unto thee a packet of salt as often as thou did break them
    -> https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/38081/the-10-commandments-of-conquest#1

  • Shikaru.7618Shikaru.7618 Member ✭✭✭

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @Laila Lightness.8742 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    Today I have a situation where I join a CM group. We start with Dru/Chr/BS/Holo/My DH. We finish 100 and get to Ensolyss with no wipes, then the Chr has to leave. Rather than posting for another Chro, some guy invites his friend into the party and it's another Holo. Then for whatever reason he asks me "can you chrono?" I tell him no, because this Power DH is the only character I have geared for fractals. He says "sorry man" and I get vote kicked out of the party because apparently they'd rather have two Holos, kick me, and then search for a Chr?

    Lots of stuff like this happening lately if you aren't running a preferred elite meta. People don't even have enough respect to let you finish a fractal that you've played all the way to the end of. The disgusting thing is how it wouldn't matter at all if we didn't even bring a Chr into the Ensolyss fight or even if we had tried to 4 man it. The group was strong and we would have completed it one way or the other. But it was important to kick the Power DH for 2x Holos and the Chrono. Important enough to disregard someone's time invested.

    Elitist habits at their finest ^

    Thats why we need to remove kick and leave mechanic

    Yeah I've started to think about what kind of systems could be implemented to help resolve these issues. You probably think I'm embellishing this and I am not: "I have had more inconveniences with random kicking and unnecessary party reformation within the last 2 months, than I have had in the last 6 years combined. I am not yet sure what exactly is influencing this new behavior, but people in fractals are starting to get weird. And this time I wouldn't even call it elitism.. it's just random favoritism of one class or player over another.

    I remember old dungeon runs or even just 2 years ago in fractals, if the party was solid and getting things done, no one would vote kick anyone, they'd just finish. Even if the DPS felt slightly lower than normal or if there was one guy who needed to be picked up off the ground a few times, if it was doable people just finished. Nowadays they kick each other over nitpicky reasons, any nitpicky reason.

    Maybe this is a good idea:

    • Remove vote kicking while in a fractal.
    • Keep party vote to return to fractal organizational lobby.
    • Allow party to directly vote kick while standing in organizational lobby, before actually going into a fractal.
    • This way, if a party is mid fractal run and really wants to vote kick a player, they would have to return to the organizational lobby to do it, which would mean that the progress of that fractal would reset for all 5 players and not just the 1 player who is vote kicked. This would encourage any party, for the purpose of saving time for everyone, to just finish the fractal "if it is doable" and vote kick the guy out afterwards, before starting a new fractal. If the party deems the fractal is not "doable" with the person they need to vote kick, then they will return to the lobby to more carefully select a player to enter the fractal with. This would eliminate almost all unfair vote kicks mid-fractal, saving a lot of people a lot of wasted time. This also plainly encourages all party members to get along while in the fractal and to actually help and teach each other for the purpose of completing the fractal at hand. The more I think about it, this is probably the way it should have worked from the beginning.
    • And of course if a player straight up leaves the party mid fractal, the party can still bring another player in directly from LFG without needing to return to lobby.

    ^ I certainly hope Arenanet reads that, because it would immediately solve most of the problems players experience with LFG abuse in fractals. As far as other gamemodes are concerned, I think the current system works just fine.

    This system would be horrendous. Now you're incentivizing even stricter requirements pre join because you can't risk someone being bad. You punish parties that have a DC to redo content. You incentivize people to actively bully someone to leave the party by spouting toxicity because no one wants to redo encounters to get back to the last boss again. You allow a single troll to hold instances hostage ie. Give me 5g or I only auto attack at arkk and there's nothing you can do about it. Don't like it? Sorry you should have developed mind reading skills to know I would do that. Honestly anet needs a show of force and publicly ban any lfg abusers who kick on last boss for their guildy friends.

  • Vinceman.4572Vinceman.4572 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Shikaru.7618 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @Laila Lightness.8742 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    Today I have a situation where I join a CM group. We start with Dru/Chr/BS/Holo/My DH. We finish 100 and get to Ensolyss with no wipes, then the Chr has to leave. Rather than posting for another Chro, some guy invites his friend into the party and it's another Holo. Then for whatever reason he asks me "can you chrono?" I tell him no, because this Power DH is the only character I have geared for fractals. He says "sorry man" and I get vote kicked out of the party because apparently they'd rather have two Holos, kick me, and then search for a Chr?

    Lots of stuff like this happening lately if you aren't running a preferred elite meta. People don't even have enough respect to let you finish a fractal that you've played all the way to the end of. The disgusting thing is how it wouldn't matter at all if we didn't even bring a Chr into the Ensolyss fight or even if we had tried to 4 man it. The group was strong and we would have completed it one way or the other. But it was important to kick the Power DH for 2x Holos and the Chrono. Important enough to disregard someone's time invested.

    Elitist habits at their finest ^

    Thats why we need to remove kick and leave mechanic

    Yeah I've started to think about what kind of systems could be implemented to help resolve these issues. You probably think I'm embellishing this and I am not: "I have had more inconveniences with random kicking and unnecessary party reformation within the last 2 months, than I have had in the last 6 years combined. I am not yet sure what exactly is influencing this new behavior, but people in fractals are starting to get weird. And this time I wouldn't even call it elitism.. it's just random favoritism of one class or player over another.

    I remember old dungeon runs or even just 2 years ago in fractals, if the party was solid and getting things done, no one would vote kick anyone, they'd just finish. Even if the DPS felt slightly lower than normal or if there was one guy who needed to be picked up off the ground a few times, if it was doable people just finished. Nowadays they kick each other over nitpicky reasons, any nitpicky reason.

    Maybe this is a good idea:

    • Remove vote kicking while in a fractal.
    • Keep party vote to return to fractal organizational lobby.
    • Allow party to directly vote kick while standing in organizational lobby, before actually going into a fractal.
    • This way, if a party is mid fractal run and really wants to vote kick a player, they would have to return to the organizational lobby to do it, which would mean that the progress of that fractal would reset for all 5 players and not just the 1 player who is vote kicked. This would encourage any party, for the purpose of saving time for everyone, to just finish the fractal "if it is doable" and vote kick the guy out afterwards, before starting a new fractal. If the party deems the fractal is not "doable" with the person they need to vote kick, then they will return to the lobby to more carefully select a player to enter the fractal with. This would eliminate almost all unfair vote kicks mid-fractal, saving a lot of people a lot of wasted time. This also plainly encourages all party members to get along while in the fractal and to actually help and teach each other for the purpose of completing the fractal at hand. The more I think about it, this is probably the way it should have worked from the beginning.
    • And of course if a player straight up leaves the party mid fractal, the party can still bring another player in directly from LFG without needing to return to lobby.

    ^ I certainly hope Arenanet reads that, because it would immediately solve most of the problems players experience with LFG abuse in fractals. As far as other gamemodes are concerned, I think the current system works just fine.

    This system would be horrendous. Now you're incentivizing even stricter requirements pre join because you can't risk someone being bad. You punish parties that have a DC to redo content. You incentivize people to actively bully someone to leave the party by spouting toxicity because no one wants to redo encounters to get back to the last boss again. You allow a single troll to hold instances hostage ie. Give me 5g or I only auto attack at arkk and there's nothing you can do about it. Don't like it? Sorry you should have developed mind reading skills to know I would do that. Honestly anet needs a show of force and publicly ban any lfg abusers who kick on last boss for their guildy friends.

    This is exactly what will happen.

  • Trevor Boyer.6524Trevor Boyer.6524 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Shikaru.7618 @Vinceman.4572

    Think it through a bit.

      1. Requirements are already strict in CM groups; nothing will be effected here at all. Requirements in normal groups are almost not present anyway outside of "LF Dru/Chr". If the group doesn't work out, usually people just leave the party anyway and reform. <- Which is in my honest opinion what these people should be doing more often than not, instead of vote kicking someone who joined an LFG group that he met the requirements on. So what if he's running T4s for the first time? If the LFG asked only for "LF Dru/Chr and +2 DPS" and he joins as a Power Holosmith, did he not meet the requirements of the LFG? Does he not deserve to be able to make the choice to stay and play? I mean unless that guy is absolutely TERRIBLE to the point that he doesn't have enough AR and/or isn't surviving long enough to fill a role at all, what reason is there to give other players a right to freely boot him out of time invested into a group that posted something that he met the requirements on? I think LFGs should be a bit more accurate in their listings to be perfectly honest with you. And besides all of that, how often do you really see a player that is so bad that they need to be booted from a party? I see this happen maybe once a week while running CM/T4/Rec groups. You know, situations where you're at Arkk or something and realize that the Druid is pumping out less than half the heals that he should be. Aside from those rare situations, people are mainly vote kicking for ridiculous reasons anymore that don't need to happen to complete the fractal. <- That is true to the point that I'd say about 8/10 vote kicks I see anymore are for petty reasons that aren't worth wasting someone's time.
      1. About DCs, that's easy to fix. Think it through a bit. If a player actually DCs and isn't online but is offline, then it allows vote kicking for obvious reasons.
      1. Bullying? I think players would immediately learn that "bullying" will do nothing but encourage the player to troll them. In fact, it puts power in the place of the person being bullied, and that is actually a good thing socially. If you want to ask a player to leave, you do it nicely with a nice explanation as to why. If that player chooses not to leave, then the party has to seriously consider if it is necessary to load back into the lobby for reorganization or if they can complete the fractal with him. If they really feel they cannot "which as stated above isn't something that happens very often as most good groups could 3 or 4 man every fractal anyway" then everyone has to restart the fractal, welp that's too bad but stuff happens. Regardless, with this system there will be fewer people experiencing inconvenience than with the current system which allows random on the spot vote kicking, which recently is being exploited and abused much more often than in previous years.
      1. Holding and instance hostage with demands for gold to participate? My good dude, do you realize that a single screenshot report of that would get that player suspended or banned for scamming? That simply isn't going to be happening at all. So if they try that, what you can do is send in a screenshot report of it, reload your instance, kick him and invite someone else. Once again, how often do you think that this would ever happen as compared to general casual current system rando vote kicks because someone wants to invite a guildy or a friend or simply because they feel they suddenly want a BS Warrior in over your Holosmith? <- This kind of kitten is happening all day long in fractal parties. Or how about because someone went down once or twice at Mai Trinn so it was important to randomly vote kick that person despite that the fractal was going fine and it wasn't necessary at all. <- Happens all of the time and this kind of stuff that discourages player from caring at all about the game mode. I'd also like to mention that in GW1 you had to organize a party in a lobby and then enter an instance where you could not vote kick players. If 1 person failed, everyone failed and had to restart. Due to the idea of "the party is one entity relying on each other to complete a mission" There was less than half the salt and toxicity in GW1 missions. Seriously, the difference in that party formation engine vs. this one in fractals, was a completely fundamentally different sociological approach to one another. Oh and I never once seen a person try to "Hold an instance hostage" in GW1.
      1. About Arenanet showing enforcement towards LFG abuse, I agree. But I don't think as much as being done about any of this as it should be. The only option we get for reports is a standard "LFG Abuse" and it doesn't even ask us to attach a screenshot or anything while doing it. So if a party suddenly vote kicks someone at Arkk and there was no communication in party or whispers whatsoever, how could Arenanet realistically tell if it was LFG Abuse or if the person was holding the party down to the point that it needed to happen? <- This is probably why not much is being done and can you really blame Anet for that? This is why they just need a better foundation built into the vote kicking system to begin with. In previous years I didn't have too many problems with this kind of thing, but recently as I stated before, people are just getting weird in fractals and show absolutely no courtesy unless it's to a friend or guildy. They see other players as expendable resources, judged solely and only by if they are speeding up a run or making it slower. There is a lot going on there that just isn't right sociologically.

    Yeah, I see your concerns. But think it through a bit.

    The 10 Commandments Of Conquest
    Abide by the commandments or God shalt deliver unto thee a packet of salt as often as thou did break them
    -> https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/38081/the-10-commandments-of-conquest#1

  • @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    @Shikaru.7618 @Vinceman.4572

    Think it through a bit.

      1. Requirements are already strict in CM groups; nothing will be effected here at all. Requirements in normal groups are almost not present anyway outside of "LF Dru/Chr". If the group doesn't work out, usually people just leave the party anyway and reform. <- Which is in my honest opinion what these people should be doing more often than not, instead of vote kicking someone who joined an LFG group that he met the requirements on. So what if he's running T4s for the first time? If the LFG asked only for "LF Dru/Chr and +2 DPS" and he joins as a Power Holosmith, did he not meet the requirements of the LFG? Does he not deserve to be able to make the choice to stay and play? I mean unless that guy is absolutely TERRIBLE to the point that he doesn't have enough AR and/or isn't surviving long enough to fill a role at all, what reason is there to give other players a right to freely boot him out of time invested into a group that posted something that he met the requirements on? I think LFGs should be a bit more accurate in their listings to be perfectly honest with you. And besides all of that, how often do you really see a player that is so bad that they need to be booted from a party? I see this happen maybe once a week while running CM/T4/Rec groups. You know, situations where you're at Arkk or something and realize that the Druid is pumping out less than half the heals that he should be. Aside from those rare situations, people are mainly vote kicking for ridiculous reasons anymore that don't need to happen to complete the fractal. <- That is true to the point that I'd say about 8/10 vote kicks I see anymore are for petty reasons that aren't worth wasting someone's time.
      1. About DCs, that's easy to fix. Think it through a bit. If a player actually DCs and isn't online but is offline, then it allows vote kicking for obvious reasons.
      1. Bullying? I think players would immediately learn that "bullying" will do nothing but encourage the player to troll them. In fact, it puts power in the place of the person being bullied, and that is actually a good thing socially. If you want to ask a player to leave, you do it nicely with a nice explanation as to why. If that player chooses not to leave, then the party has to seriously consider if it is necessary to load back into the lobby for reorganization or if they can complete the fractal with him. If they really feel they cannot "which as stated above isn't something that happens very often as most good groups could 3 or 4 man every fractal anyway" then everyone has to restart the fractal, welp that's too bad but stuff happens. Regardless, with this system there will be fewer people experiencing inconvenience than with the current system which allows random on the spot vote kicking, which recently is being exploited and abused much more often than in previous years.
      1. Holding and instance hostage with demands for gold to participate? My good dude, do you realize that a single screenshot report of that would get that player suspended or banned for scamming? That simply isn't going to be happening at all. So if they try that, what you can do is send in a screenshot report of it, reload your instance, kick him and invite someone else. Once again, how often do you think that this would ever happen as compared to general casual current system rando vote kicks because someone wants to invite a guildy or a friend or simply because they feel they suddenly want a BS Warrior in over your Holosmith? <- This kind of kitten is happening all day long in fractal parties. Or how about because someone went down once or twice at Mai Trinn so it was important to randomly vote kick that person despite that the fractal was going fine and it wasn't necessary at all. <- Happens all of the time and this kind of stuff that discourages player from caring at all about the game mode. I'd also like to mention that in GW1 you had to organize a party in a lobby and then enter an instance where you could not vote kick players. If 1 person failed, everyone failed and had to restart. Due to the idea of "the party is one entity relying on each other to complete a mission" There was less than half the salt and toxicity in GW1 missions. Seriously, the difference in that party formation engine vs. this one in fractals, was a completely fundamentally different sociological approach to one another. Oh and I never once seen a person try to "Hold an instance hostage" in GW1.
      1. About Arenanet showing enforcement towards LFG abuse, I agree. But I don't think as much as being done about any of this as it should be. The only option we get for reports is a standard "LFG Abuse" and it doesn't even ask us to attach a screenshot or anything while doing it. So if a party suddenly vote kicks someone at Arkk and there was no communication in party or whispers whatsoever, how could Arenanet realistically tell if it was LFG Abuse or if the person was holding the party down to the point that it needed to happen? <- This is probably why not much is being done and can you really blame Anet for that? This is why they just need a better foundation built into the vote kicking system to begin with. In previous years I didn't have too many problems with this kind of thing, but recently as I stated before, people are just getting weird in fractals and show absolutely no courtesy unless it's to a friend or guildy. They see other players as expendable resources, judged solely and only by if they are speeding up a run or making it slower. There is a lot going on there that just isn't right sociologically.

    Yeah, I see your concerns. But think it through a bit.

    No i meant no kick if you get someone you think is bad you have to deal with it and carry person through then kick thrn finished for the person who would be kicked might feel hen performs good

  • To fix elitism and meta builds nerf any build sc makes nerf everyone to the lowest in all aspect

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 30, 2018

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    • Remove vote kicking while in a fractal.

    This is probably one of the worst suggestion regarding fractals that ever appeared on these forums. When there are suggestions about a problem, they shouldn't only solve issues, but they shouldn't introduce new (even worse) problems.

    Holding and instance hostage with demands for gold to participate? My good dude, do you realize that a single screenshot report of that would get that player suspended or banned for scamming?

    It was happening quite a lot when running Arah back in the day, no suspensions. Report of what? They might not say anything and just afk in a corner, when was the last time someone was banned or suspended for being afk? If that was happening then PVP would be a so much better place, but it's not. "Hey you all suck, I'll afk at spawn", this is a common thing in PVP, now you want to bring it in Fractals, congratulations.

    Your system will simply encourage more players to lie or use chat codes, and in general enter groups they are not supposed to and be carried, as you remove all the power from the group to effectively remove them. You don't respect the time of your players to save some lazy trolls and allow them free carries.

    Edit: and one more thing: even if they did ban players for that kind of behavior, it wouldn't help anyone because your time would've been already wasted. Bans aren't automatic so the moment someone decides to do that to you, you have no options.

  • Trevor Boyer.6524Trevor Boyer.6524 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    • Remove vote kicking while in a fractal.

    This is probably one of the worst suggestion regarding fractals that ever appeared on these forums. When there are suggestions about a problem, they shouldn't only solve issues, but they shouldn't introduce new (even worse) problems.

    Holding and instance hostage with demands for gold to participate? My good dude, do you realize that a single screenshot report of that would get that player suspended or banned for scamming?

    It was happening quite a lot when running Arah back in the day, no suspensions. Report of what? They might not say anything and just afk in a corner, when was the last time someone was banned or suspended for being afk? If that was happening then PVP would be a so much better place, but it's not. "Hey you all suck, I'll afk at spawn", this is a common thing in PVP, now you want to bring it in Fractals, congratulations.

    Your system will simply encourage more players to lie or use chat codes, and in general enter groups they are not supposed to and be carried, as you remove all the power from the group to effectively remove them. You don't respect the time of your players to save some lazy trolls and allow them free carries.

    Edit: and one more thing: even if they did ban players for that kind of behavior, it wouldn't help anyone because your time would've been already wasted. Bans aren't automatic so the moment someone decides to do that to you, you have no options.

    I feel like it's shooting down a suggestion with a "worst possible case scenario" without considering the ultra small margin of frequency of that worst possible case scenario vs. the problems that are actually already happening every day all of the time. When is the last time you even saw someone go AFK in fractals? I haven't seen an AFK player in fractals in years. And it would be easy enough for them to implement a system like in pvp, where if you're AFK for 2 minutes or something, it auto kicks.

    I don't know why there is such an aversion to suggestions in this pve forum but it's kind of weird. People just respond with "Worst case possible scenario" and move on without considering all the realities in between. As far as this particular debacle, I can say that GW1 had an "organize before entering, no vote kicking, finish with the group or leave and restart system" and I never had problems organizing adequate or even good groups for even Hard Mode Missions and, that old GW1 content back before 7x heroes was seriously difficult, much more difficult than GW2 content. The players in that system were also much friendlier and things were far less toxic. I don't know, it's a debate in itself as to why that was so I'll leave that alone.

    The 10 Commandments Of Conquest
    Abide by the commandments or God shalt deliver unto thee a packet of salt as often as thou did break them
    -> https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/38081/the-10-commandments-of-conquest#1

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    • Remove vote kicking while in a fractal.

    This is probably one of the worst suggestion regarding fractals that ever appeared on these forums. When there are suggestions about a problem, they shouldn't only solve issues, but they shouldn't introduce new (even worse) problems.

    Holding and instance hostage with demands for gold to participate? My good dude, do you realize that a single screenshot report of that would get that player suspended or banned for scamming?

    It was happening quite a lot when running Arah back in the day, no suspensions. Report of what? They might not say anything and just afk in a corner, when was the last time someone was banned or suspended for being afk? If that was happening then PVP would be a so much better place, but it's not. "Hey you all suck, I'll afk at spawn", this is a common thing in PVP, now you want to bring it in Fractals, congratulations.

    Your system will simply encourage more players to lie or use chat codes, and in general enter groups they are not supposed to and be carried, as you remove all the power from the group to effectively remove them. You don't respect the time of your players to save some lazy trolls and allow them free carries.

    Edit: and one more thing: even if they did ban players for that kind of behavior, it wouldn't help anyone because your time would've been already wasted. Bans aren't automatic so the moment someone decides to do that to you, you have no options.

    I feel like it's shooting down a suggestion with a "worst possible case scenario" without considering the ultra small margin of frequency of that worst possible case scenario vs. the problems that are actually already happening every day all of the time. When is the last time you even saw someone go AFK in fractals? I haven't seen an AFK player in fractals in years. And it would be easy enough for them to implement a system like in pvp, where if you're AFK for 2 minutes or something, it auto kicks.

    I don't know why there is such an aversion to suggestions in this pve forum but it's kind of weird. People just respond with "Worst case possible scenario" and move on without considering all the realities in between. As far as this particular debacle, I can say that GW1 had an "organize before entering, no vote kicking, finish with the group or leave and restart system" and I never had problems organizing adequate or even good groups for even Hard Mode Missions and, that old GW1 content back before 7x heroes was seriously difficult, much more difficult than GW2 content. The players in that system were also much friendlier and things were far less toxic. I don't know, it's a debate in itself as to why that was so I'll leave that alone.

    In general, the more restrictions a developer puts in place to deal with issues of character and personality, the more oppressed normal players get. Your suggestions are incredibly oppressive and take a lot of control out of the players hands. This is often not a good thing. Why? Because idiots will be idiots no matter what rules and restrictions are in place while normal and decent players will always be penalized by a more oppressive system.

    That's why the reaction of people is so strong against your idea. Your suggestions fixes a minor issue (and not even sure it does that) while creating way more issues for every day players.

  • Henry.5713Henry.5713 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 30, 2018

    Reminds me of one fun evening I had during that "squad-merge-abuse" phase before it got fixed.
    A friend and I decided to do a full TA run out of some dungeon nostalgia. We were going to Aether Path first, don't even remember why. But that choice was the the main reason why this even happened as you require more than two people for one of the rooms.
    Anyways, we got one person joining instantly. Only requirement we set was for people having done the dungeon before. He had something like 3k AP and was obviously quite new. We decided to take him anyways as it really doesn't matter as long as he follows us. But of course he didn't even do that. He instead decided to "afk" at the entrance for the first then minutes but, interestingly enough, answered instantly "Sorry, need 10 more minutes" when asked if he was coming. We then told him that we don't intend to give people a free ride like that as he is taking up a possible spot of someone who actually wants to play right now. He doesn't answer this time. We wait a bit, we kick him. Should have been the end of that story and it would have been a boring evening if not for the said bug.
    We got to the room with the four platforms a few minutes later, opened an LFG and guess who joins instantly to merge squads and thus kick us out? Neither of us had seen the thing in action so we laughed about it. Went in again to start from scratch and guess who merges us again once our LFG pops up? That guy of course. Tried to talk to him, got blocked. We decided to duo everything up to the platform room again as he can't possibly be waiting there for half an hour in LFG to screw with us again. But he actually did do just that. We were so amused by how much effort he put into it that we decided to clear everything one more time, then wait for another half an hour while just chatting discord and then open another LFG. We were lucky to get three players quickly then and that that person seemed to have given up. Took about two hours in total.

    Not sure if people actually believe this story since it does sound rather farfetched but trust me I couldn't make up kitten like that even if I wanted to. All I can say is to not give people the tools to screw you over whenever they feel they lost out on something they should be entitled to. You'd be surprised how much more effort and energy they are willing to put into screwing you over than they are willing to put into completing whatever they got kicked from in the first place. I kind of wonder if those in favour of removing any means to get rid of some people think he should have done as he did or should indeed have been able to just full "afk" that run.

    Nothing is particularly hard if you divide it into small jobs. Henry Ford

  • Trevor Boyer.6524Trevor Boyer.6524 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Henry.5713 said:
    Reminds me of one fun evening I had during that "squad-merge-abuse" phase before it got fixed.
    A friend and I decided to do a full TA run out of some dungeon nostalgia. We were going to Aether Path first, don't even remember why. But that choice was the the main reason why this even happened as you require more than two people for one of the rooms.
    Anyways, we got one person joining instantly. Only requirement we set was for people having done the dungeon before. He had something like 3k AP and was obviously quite new. We decided to take him anyways as it really doesn't matter as long as he follows us. But of course he didn't even do that. He instead decided to "afk" at the entrance for the first then minutes but, interestingly enough, answered instantly "Sorry, need 10 more minutes" when asked if he was coming. We then told him that we don't intend to give people a free ride like that as he is taking up a possible spot of someone who actually wants to play right now. He doesn't answer this time. We wait a bit, we kick him. Should have been the end of that story and it would have been a boring evening if not for the said bug.
    We got to the room with the four platforms a few minutes later, opened an LFG and guess who joins instantly to merge squads and thus kick us out? Neither of us had seen the thing in action so we laughed about it. Went in again to start from scratch and guess who merges us again once our LFG pops up? That guy of course. Tried to talk to him, got blocked. We decided to duo everything up to the platform room again as he can't possibly be waiting there for half an hour in LFG to screw with us again. But he actually did do just that. We were so amused by how much effort he put into it that we decided to clear everything one more time, then wait for another half an hour while just chatting discord and then open another LFG. We were lucky to get three players quickly then and that that person seemed to have given up. Took about two hours in total.

    Not sure if people actually believe this story since it does sound rather farfetched but trust me I couldn't make up kitten like that even if I wanted to. All I can say is to not give people the tools to screw you over whenever they feel they lost out on something they should be entitled to. You'd be surprised how much more effort and energy they are willing to put into screwing you over than they are willing to put into completing whatever they got kicked from in the first place. I kind of wonder if those in favour of removing any means to get rid of some people think he should have done as he did or should indeed have been able to just full "afk" that run.

    Back then during that exploit, he actually could have just been merging squad with your party LFG without ever joining the dungeon instance with you, which still would boot you out of the dungeon. I feel like this doesn't have much to do with the conjecture of my suggestion.

    But w/e, no one seems to like that suggestion so I'll leave it alone.

    ~ Cheers

    The 10 Commandments Of Conquest
    Abide by the commandments or God shalt deliver unto thee a packet of salt as often as thou did break them
    -> https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/38081/the-10-commandments-of-conquest#1

  • Henry.5713Henry.5713 Member ✭✭✭

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @Henry.5713 said:
    Reminds me of one fun evening I had during that "squad-merge-abuse" phase before it got fixed.
    A friend and I decided to do a full TA run out of some dungeon nostalgia. We were going to Aether Path first, don't even remember why. But that choice was the the main reason why this even happened as you require more than two people for one of the rooms.
    Anyways, we got one person joining instantly. Only requirement we set was for people having done the dungeon before. He had something like 3k AP and was obviously quite new. We decided to take him anyways as it really doesn't matter as long as he follows us. But of course he didn't even do that. He instead decided to "afk" at the entrance for the first then minutes but, interestingly enough, answered instantly "Sorry, need 10 more minutes" when asked if he was coming. We then told him that we don't intend to give people a free ride like that as he is taking up a possible spot of someone who actually wants to play right now. He doesn't answer this time. We wait a bit, we kick him. Should have been the end of that story and it would have been a boring evening if not for the said bug.
    We got to the room with the four platforms a few minutes later, opened an LFG and guess who joins instantly to merge squads and thus kick us out? Neither of us had seen the thing in action so we laughed about it. Went in again to start from scratch and guess who merges us again once our LFG pops up? That guy of course. Tried to talk to him, got blocked. We decided to duo everything up to the platform room again as he can't possibly be waiting there for half an hour in LFG to screw with us again. But he actually did do just that. We were so amused by how much effort he put into it that we decided to clear everything one more time, then wait for another half an hour while just chatting discord and then open another LFG. We were lucky to get three players quickly then and that that person seemed to have given up. Took about two hours in total.

    Not sure if people actually believe this story since it does sound rather farfetched but trust me I couldn't make up kitten like that even if I wanted to. All I can say is to not give people the tools to screw you over whenever they feel they lost out on something they should be entitled to. You'd be surprised how much more effort and energy they are willing to put into screwing you over than they are willing to put into completing whatever they got kicked from in the first place. I kind of wonder if those in favour of removing any means to get rid of some people think he should have done as he did or should indeed have been able to just full "afk" that run.

    Back then during that exploit, he actually could have just been merging squad with your party LFG without ever joining the dungeon instance with you, which still would boot you out of the dungeon. I feel like this doesn't have much to do with the conjecture of my suggestion.

    But w/e, no one seems to like that suggestion so I'll leave it alone.

    ~ Cheers

    That is exactly what he kept doing after he got kicked. Merging without entering and thus making sure to kick us out whenever we opened an LFG which, since you need at least four people for that part, he knew we would have to do. I never used the exploit myself so I wouldn't know how to but he certainly used any possibilities provided to him by the game to screw with us.
    Just like he'd have abused the fact that we can't kick if they had removed said option. The reason you don't see many players afk'ing in Fractals or raids is the vote kicking. Why would people care otherwise as they do not even need to fear dropping ranks if they failed unlike in PvP.

    Nothing is particularly hard if you divide it into small jobs. Henry Ford

  • @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    Today I have a situation where I join a CM group. We start with Dru/Chr/BS/Holo/My DH. We finish 100 and get to Ensolyss with no wipes, then the Chr has to leave. Rather than posting for another Chro, some guy invites his friend into the party and it's another Holo. Then for whatever reason he asks me "can you chrono?" I tell him no, because this Power DH is the only character I have geared for fractals. He says "sorry man" and I get vote kicked out of the party because apparently they'd rather have two Holos, kick me, and then search for a Chr?

    Lots of stuff like this happening lately if you aren't running a preferred elite meta. People don't even have enough respect to let you finish a fractal that you've played all the way to the end of. The disgusting thing is how it wouldn't matter at all if we didn't even bring a Chr into the Ensolyss fight or even if we had tried to 4 man it. The group was strong and we would have completed it one way or the other. But it was important to kick the Power DH for 2x Holos and the Chrono. Important enough to disregard someone's time invested.

    Elitist habits at their finest ^

    Such tragic story... I almost cried ! /sarcasm
    They kicked you because you arent their friend /guild member . Happened to me as well when instead of braendead guild memeber that dont know how to do 99cm they kicked me ...to proceed to wipe I guess. But I'm not invade forum to complaint about it... Its not elitism ,its about being d**ks
    Fractals are pretty much dead anyway . Been waiting for regular daily CMs T4 and its took 1h to find chrono ,by the time waiting we have done 100cm 4man w/o chrono...

  • Vinceman.4572Vinceman.4572 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 30, 2018

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    I feel like it's shooting down a suggestion with a "worst possible case scenario" without considering the ultra small margin of frequency of that worst possible case scenario vs. the problems that are actually already happening every day all of the time.

    Wait a second. I don't get kicked in my CM runs regularly and if I have to remember I must have been kicked out by less than 5 groups over half a year. So, I'm not sure if this one kick you experienced justifies the trouble we can get with the system you were proposing.

    Additionally I don't have "recurring" problems in my runs. When I'm playing CMs I make sure that I don't fail my stuff at all. They are not hard and I even don't know when was the last time I was responsible for a party wipe. I suggest playing bs, druid or chrono and your team won't curse you at all if you're doing your job. (There are a few baddies who cry: "omg druid no heal" or something similar but these special snowflakes are very rare.). The kick you mentioned is by far more rare than everything else, this is definitely not a more common thing.

    I don't know why there is such an aversion to suggestions in this pve forum but it's kind of weird. People just respond with "Worst case possible scenario" and move on without considering all the realities in between. As far as this particular debacle, I can say that GW1 had an "organize before entering, no vote kicking, finish with the group or leave and restart system" and I never had problems organizing adequate or even good groups for even Hard Mode Missions and, that old GW1 content back before 7x heroes was seriously difficult, much more difficult than GW2 content. The players in that system were also much friendlier and things were far less toxic. I don't know, it's a debate in itself as to why that was so I'll leave that alone.

    Well, I heard different stuff of finding people in GW1. There were a lot of restrictions for the "hardcore" content and you said it yourself: GW1 had harder instances. GW2 is much more casual which leads to more players entering content they are not able to handle.
    It's also very interesting and indicative that there are almost no players coming into the forums or to reddit and complain about the things you are telling us. And it's not the first time. Either you have a thin skin or you cause trouble within the groups yourself or at least like to escalate things when some rage kiddy is mad about something.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    I feel like it's shooting down a suggestion with a "worst possible case scenario" without considering the ultra small margin of frequency of that worst possible case scenario vs. the problems that are actually already happening every day all of the time.

    I haven't seen any of the problems discussed by you, and I've been playing since release, so to me you are presenting a worst possible case scenario of the current system and present something that would fix something that very rarely happens.

    When is the last time you even saw someone go AFK in fractals? I haven't seen an AFK player in fractals in years. And it would be easy enough for them to implement a system like in pvp, where if you're AFK for 2 minutes or something, it auto kicks.

    I've seen more than enough AFK players in PVP. The current system doesn't support AFK in fractals, you'll be kicked, so that's why you don't see any. Meanwhile, in PVP, where your system is in place, you see it in almost half the matches. AFK players in PVP are way more common than your problem of getting kicked for people to invite their guildies. It's not even funny to compare the two. Auto-kick doesn't really work.

    People just respond with "Worst case possible scenario" and move on without considering all the realities in between.

    That's what you did, you provided a worst case scenario of the current system, without realizing your proposed system applies to other parts of the game and it has very common issues (not a worst case scenario, but more like the most common scenario).

  • Trevor Boyer.6524Trevor Boyer.6524 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Vinceman.4572

    The difference between me and other forum users is that I enjoy debate in general so I bring up topics that aren't being discussed, for the sake of discussion. I also like to talk about things that I see happening, that aren't necessarily effecting me.

    You reference your experiences running in CM groups and I have had similar experience, but I'm not talking about CM groups here. I'm more talking about normal T4 groups. When is the last time you've gone back through T3s or T4s with a group of buddies for the sake of being social and helping? I do it pretty often and I'll tell you that this is happening: In the last couple of months and especially after the last patch, the old T4 groups of players who couldn't quite cut it in CMs, are now making their way into CMs simply by virtue of enhanced DPS and enhanced sustain "power creep" pretty much. So what this is doing is creating a situation where almost half or sometimes over half of the LFGs posted in T4 are all CM groups with some 100 ESS qualification or at the lowest I've seen 20 ESS posted before. Regardless, this is putting all experienced groups in the CM range, leaving very few experienced players left in the T4 range. Some of these groups I've joined and ran with lately actually make normal T4s harder than CMs due to lack of proper builds/team comps/general mechanical knowledge. It is seriously easier and faster to run CMs with a well oiled team, than to try to and kill Subject 6 T4 or the Underground Facility Ice Elemental with a group that is lacking in every way. Essentially T4 players are now the new T3 players and the amount of finger pointing in these groups is high, uninformed, miscalculated, and generally a defensive move to cover one's own short comings. This leads to some guy getting vote kicked because 1 person started harping on him and convinced the other people that it was his fault, when the reality is that the players don't know any better about kitten is going on so they just listen to that one loud guy that seems like he does, and 2nd and 3rd the kick. I have seen this happen many times.

    If we are talking about CM groups, I don't see much vote kicking due to "hey this guy isn't performing well" I see vote kicking that is just blatant LFG abuse. Things like kicking someone or two so guildies & friends can join to get their completion. Hey, I've been on the good side of that myself within the last month. There was a point where people from one of my guilds wanted to run T4s but 2 of them weren't quite ready so they decided to start with 3 of us and bring in 2 just to get a jump on 100 CM before the other 2 guildies were ready. When we got to Arkk, someone on the discord just said "Alright let's kick these guys so such and such can join", and guess what? Well, I just sort of went along with it because I didn't want to kitten off guild members. Was it right? No, that's LFG abuse. The problem here though is that it isn't so easily reportable as LFG abuse when nothing is said in the text chat. You have 3 guys in a discord communicating and when those 2 kicks happen, how could Arenanet tell our motivation behind those kicks? That's my point really. Regardless of if my suggestion is adequate to deal with this problem, there needs to be something else implemented to stop this kind of stuff because I see this stuff happening probably about 1 out of 3 CM groups that I join. It's not that it's happening to me all of the time, sometimes it's just all of a sudden I see vote kicks pop up vs. some guy that I felt was performing well and poof he's gone, with nothing said to explain why. I notice it happens the most when I'm running with an obvious half guild team, where 2 or 3 guys are wearing the same tag. It's not so much with true PUG groups.

    Another example of this is a couple months ago, when I ran with a group of pvp guys who wanted to get involved in fractals. Even though these guys had no fractal experience, of course they had full asc gear and the gold to get the AR they needed. So of course they jump directly into T4s. I figured they must have had some general knowledge of pve team comps but when I joined the party I was surprised to see: Deadeye, Deadeye, Spellbreaker, Me on Power DH, and then some Chrono we picked up through LFG "At first I purposely did not post for a Druid because I wanted them to learn mechanics instead of be heal fed by a Druid." This turned out to be a bad idea when I realized that Twilight Oasis was on that list for the daily T4s. They did well for a first time fractal run with no healer, up until Twilight Oasis. I remember we dinked around at Amala for over 2 hours before I said: "Hey, unless you want to sit and watch me solo the last phase, which is going to take forever due to how much dodging is involved with Amala and not DPSing, I don't think this is gonna happen." They say on discord: "Ok ok ok let's try with a Druid let's try with a Druid." and then they vote kick that patient Chronomancer who sat there for 2 hours with them, helping them learn Twilight Oasis, to bring in a Druid, when that Chronomancer was actually good. lololol Is that fair? Hell no that's LFG abuse man and just plain ungrateful. But at the end of it all, the Druid gave them barely the survival they needed to get the job done and the patient Chronomancer who knew he was helping a new group got kitten and had 2 hours of his day wasted.

    So you see Vince, another difference between myself and most of these other forum users is that I am honest enough to talk about instances when myself or others than I am playing with were in the wrong. It's all in the spirit of pointing out the things that can and do happen with this vote kicking system. I'm not saying the system is terrible, I'm just giving a heads up that maybe it could be upgraded a bit.

    The 10 Commandments Of Conquest
    Abide by the commandments or God shalt deliver unto thee a packet of salt as often as thou did break them
    -> https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/38081/the-10-commandments-of-conquest#1

  • Vinceman.4572Vinceman.4572 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I'm still not buying the frequent occurrence of those kicks because same things must happen to others as well and especially the ones that are kicked out would be come to reddit or into this forum to complain heavily (because this is something unhappy players tend to do very often). Additionally, I'm running fractals as well and haven't seen such behavior on a regular basis. On the contrary most of the kicks I've seen were - in my opinion - legit a.k.a. offline candidates, players that go afk, had no clue although it was marked as "experienced run", tried to fake kps or didn't know how to play their class = no dps as dps player, no might as druid or no boons at all as chrono.

  • Grogba.6204Grogba.6204 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 1, 2018

    Ran fractals CM+T4 the past year with one other player for the past year and I remember a handful of runs where we had to kick a player for DC/Afk and not returning or faking KPs and vastly underperforming. The most negative experience in said runs was a Druid questioning my skill for not sharing Aegis before MAMA(I think we took a few seconds too long and it ran out, could have been toxic trail I don't know anymore honestly. Perhaps I indeed failed my prebuff rotation) to which I answered via nitpicking his playstyle, ending with both of us kitten during the remainder of CM99 and him leaving afterwards. :shrug:

    I do ended up putting a few players on ignore and moving on for being exceptionally rude but skilled nontheless. Just didn't enjoy playing with them. Seeing how two of those players later joined PUG raids I was in as well and getting promptly kicked by the commanders I do feel like not being the bigger problem in that situation but who cares. Also met a few great players I regularly see again in our fractal runs and it's always a pleasure to play with them.

©2010–2018 ArenaNet, LLC. All rights reserved. Guild Wars, Guild Wars 2, Heart of Thorns, Guild Wars 2: Path of Fire, ArenaNet, NCSOFT, the Interlocking NC Logo, and all associated logos and designs are trademarks or registered trademarks of NCSOFT Corporation. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners.