Raid Elitism Happening In Fractals - Page 2 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Raid Elitism Happening In Fractals

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  • Kheldorn.5123Kheldorn.5123 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Shirlias.8104 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:
    Not at all. You are implying without verification that complaining about elitism = I don't want to or can't play efficiently

    Nope i don't.
    What i am saying is that most of the times people who don't play in a proper way tend to fail.

    Let's say that you have 100 out of 100 chances of success with a party with meta builds ( given the fact that players skill is the same ).

    numbers are just random. just follow the logic

    • If 1 out of 5 decide to bring a tanky build, let's say that the chances drops to 90 out of 100.
    • If then another player decide to play ranged dps instead of melee, dropping his DPS from X to Y, the the chances will eventually drop from 90 to 85.
    • If you don't have a full meta socketed equip + consumables, then obviously you will deal less damage even if you have the metabuild and stats needed, which brings the chanced down from 85 to 80.

    And so on.
    Given the most easiest way, the more you modify it, the harder the encounter becomes.

    And remember the most important thing.
    If i have 30 mins and i want to make some fractal runs, i don't care if you are performant even with a different build.
    I will play my meta and i will joing others with meta builds.

    And it's only a matter of time and efficiency.

    If somebody is playing with friends or simply other players who don't care about builds and equipment and consumables and infusions ( given the time obviously ) then there's the possibility that he decides to use a non meta build.

    In your message proper = efficient. But the reality is, that there are no dps checks in fractals. Yes, playing efficiently may be faster, if whole team understands and follows this concept. But playing slower is also proper way as long as you don't fail mechanics and manage to kill the boss.

  • Shirlias.8104Shirlias.8104 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 16, 2018

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    @Shirlias.8104 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:
    Not at all. You are implying without verification that complaining about elitism = I don't want to or can't play efficiently

    Nope i don't.
    What i am saying is that most of the times people who don't play in a proper way tend to fail.

    Let's say that you have 100 out of 100 chances of success with a party with meta builds ( given the fact that players skill is the same ).

    numbers are just random. just follow the logic

    • If 1 out of 5 decide to bring a tanky build, let's say that the chances drops to 90 out of 100.
    • If then another player decide to play ranged dps instead of melee, dropping his DPS from X to Y, the the chances will eventually drop from 90 to 85.
    • If you don't have a full meta socketed equip + consumables, then obviously you will deal less damage even if you have the metabuild and stats needed, which brings the chanced down from 85 to 80.

    And so on.
    Given the most easiest way, the more you modify it, the harder the encounter becomes.

    And remember the most important thing.
    If i have 30 mins and i want to make some fractal runs, i don't care if you are performant even with a different build.
    I will play my meta and i will joing others with meta builds.

    And it's only a matter of time and efficiency.

    If somebody is playing with friends or simply other players who don't care about builds and equipment and consumables and infusions ( given the time obviously ) then there's the possibility that he decides to use a non meta build.

    In your message proper = efficient. But the reality is, that there are no dps checks in fractals. Yes, playing efficiently may be faster, if whole team understands and follows this concept. But playing slower is also proper way as long as you don't fail mechanics and manage to kill the boss.

    The longer the fight, the worst.
    Even though you could still manage to accomplish your goal.

    But if you could always manage to end the fight, why would be there so many threads like this one?
    To me, the scenario you propose is definitely real, but It's not the normal scenario from what I see.

  • Faaris.8013Faaris.8013 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 16, 2018

    @Shirlias.8104 said:
    If somebody is playing with friends or simply other players who don't care about builds and equipment and consumables and infusions ( given the time obviously ) then there's the possibility that he decides to use a non meta build.

    You are actually forced into it. If for some reason you join a T3 Oasis or Shattered Observatory LFG, you better don't bring your meta dps class. At least 2 other players in your team will go full ranged defensive weirdo build and you and the other two meta build players have no chance of survival. So you are in a cage with those players who force you to do the same kitten they do if you want even a slight chance of finishing the encounter. Once I was in such a run in T3 Uncategorized. At some point I realized I'll never convince them of a better way to handle this content, and that their way "works". It does work, but it's a way of blood, toil, tears and sweat. And I gave up and adjusted to their way for this run. These players trait for solo play when they enter fractals because they expect everybody else to do the same, and then you have 5 solo players doing content that was created for a 5 player team.

  • Shirlias.8104Shirlias.8104 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Faaris.8013 said:

    @Shirlias.8104 said:
    If somebody is playing with friends or simply other players who don't care about builds and equipment and consumables and infusions ( given the time obviously ) then there's the possibility that he decides to use a non meta build.

    You are actually forced into it. If for some reason you join a T3 Oasis or Shattered Observatory LFG, you better don't bring your meta dps class. At least 2 other players in your team will go full ranged defensive weirdo build and you and the other two meta build players have no chance of survival. So you are in a cage with those players who force you to do the same kitten they do if you want even a slight chance of finishing the encounter. Once I was in such a run in T3 Uncategorized. At some point I realized I'll never convince them of a better way to handle this content, and that their way "works". It does work, but it's a way of blood, toil, tears and sweat. And I gave up and adjusted to their way for this run. These players trait for solo play when they enter fractals because they expect everybody else to do the same, and then you have 5 solo players doing content that was created for a 5 player team.

    I talked about the possibility of making up a party or joining one pug not meta one.
    I didn't say a thing about the outcome.

  • Kheldorn.5123Kheldorn.5123 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Shirlias.8104 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    @Shirlias.8104 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:
    Not at all. You are implying without verification that complaining about elitism = I don't want to or can't play efficiently

    Nope i don't.
    What i am saying is that most of the times people who don't play in a proper way tend to fail.

    Let's say that you have 100 out of 100 chances of success with a party with meta builds ( given the fact that players skill is the same ).

    numbers are just random. just follow the logic

    • If 1 out of 5 decide to bring a tanky build, let's say that the chances drops to 90 out of 100.
    • If then another player decide to play ranged dps instead of melee, dropping his DPS from X to Y, the the chances will eventually drop from 90 to 85.
    • If you don't have a full meta socketed equip + consumables, then obviously you will deal less damage even if you have the metabuild and stats needed, which brings the chanced down from 85 to 80.

    And so on.
    Given the most easiest way, the more you modify it, the harder the encounter becomes.

    And remember the most important thing.
    If i have 30 mins and i want to make some fractal runs, i don't care if you are performant even with a different build.
    I will play my meta and i will joing others with meta builds.

    And it's only a matter of time and efficiency.

    If somebody is playing with friends or simply other players who don't care about builds and equipment and consumables and infusions ( given the time obviously ) then there's the possibility that he decides to use a non meta build.

    In your message proper = efficient. But the reality is, that there are no dps checks in fractals. Yes, playing efficiently may be faster, if whole team understands and follows this concept. But playing slower is also proper way as long as you don't fail mechanics and manage to kill the boss.

    The longer the fight, the worst.
    Even though you could still manage to accomplish your goal.

    But if you could always manage to end the fight, why would be there so many threads like this one?
    To me, the scenario you propose is definitely real, but It's not the normal scenario from what I see.

    What you are presenting here is exactly the elitism OP is talking about. Your way of thinking is "so what he completed the content, he didn't do it proper (my) way".

    He completed the content - this is exactly the reason why his way is as good as yours. Slower? Maybe. But as long as he succeeds, it's good.

  • Shirlias.8104Shirlias.8104 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    @Shirlias.8104 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    @Shirlias.8104 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:
    Not at all. You are implying without verification that complaining about elitism = I don't want to or can't play efficiently

    Nope i don't.
    What i am saying is that most of the times people who don't play in a proper way tend to fail.

    Let's say that you have 100 out of 100 chances of success with a party with meta builds ( given the fact that players skill is the same ).

    numbers are just random. just follow the logic

    • If 1 out of 5 decide to bring a tanky build, let's say that the chances drops to 90 out of 100.
    • If then another player decide to play ranged dps instead of melee, dropping his DPS from X to Y, the the chances will eventually drop from 90 to 85.
    • If you don't have a full meta socketed equip + consumables, then obviously you will deal less damage even if you have the metabuild and stats needed, which brings the chanced down from 85 to 80.

    And so on.
    Given the most easiest way, the more you modify it, the harder the encounter becomes.

    And remember the most important thing.
    If i have 30 mins and i want to make some fractal runs, i don't care if you are performant even with a different build.
    I will play my meta and i will joing others with meta builds.

    And it's only a matter of time and efficiency.

    If somebody is playing with friends or simply other players who don't care about builds and equipment and consumables and infusions ( given the time obviously ) then there's the possibility that he decides to use a non meta build.

    In your message proper = efficient. But the reality is, that there are no dps checks in fractals. Yes, playing efficiently may be faster, if whole team understands and follows this concept. But playing slower is also proper way as long as you don't fail mechanics and manage to kill the boss.

    The longer the fight, the worst.
    Even though you could still manage to accomplish your goal.

    But if you could always manage to end the fight, why would be there so many threads like this one?
    To me, the scenario you propose is definitely real, but It's not the normal scenario from what I see.

    What you are presenting here is exactly the elitism OP is talking about. Your way of thinking is "so what he completed the content, he didn't do it proper (my) way".

    He completed the content - this is exactly the reason why his way is as good as yours. Slower? Maybe. But as long as he succeeds, it's good.

    I don't get your point.
    You managed to Clear the content with a different build, and now you are browsing gw2 lfg... Then What happens?

  • Turin.6921Turin.6921 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 16, 2018

    A non-issue. It is not the raids leaking into fractals. It is just an evolution of the zerk meta from dungeons.

    Raid META builds actually work for fractals as well. So less experienced people prefer to follow it to save time. It is not required and if you make your own non meta configured LFG it will fill in 2 minutes. Just like the old dungeons that constantly saw zerk parties or just like near HOT launch that you were constantly seeing 4 ripper 1 healer parties, yet you could still make you own party fill it up immediately and move on.

    It is a game. Optimal play will emerge and many people will prefer to go for the optimal even if unnecessary in the grand scheme of things. Every game will have the same evolution. Even in chess you find the same dynamics with standard plays and openings. It is not a real issue.

  • Kheldorn.5123Kheldorn.5123 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Turin.6921 said:
    A non-issue. It is not the the raids leaking into fractals. It is just an evolution of the zerk meta from dungeons.

    Raid META builds actually work for fractals as well. So people less experienced people prefer to follow it to save time. It is not required and if you make your own non meta configured LFG it will fill in 2 minutes. Just like the old dungeon that constantly saw zerk parties or just like near HOT launch that you were constantly seeing 4 ripper on healer parties.

    It is a game. Optimal play will emerge and many people will prefer to go for the optimal even if unnecessary in the grand scheme of things. Every game will have the same evolution. Even in chess you find the same issues with standards plays and openings. It is not a real issue.

    To add to this I'd say it's also a problem with game balance. If druid is both mightstacker and healer and chrono has no competition for alacrity/quickness stacking, what's the point of playing other specs?

    The problem with the game, and it's present here since mentioned above dungeon meta, is that some specs are way too good, offer too much and it results in OP comp being overpowered. So it's not a rocket science people are expecting others to play such comp.

  • Turin.6921Turin.6921 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 16, 2018

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    @Turin.6921 said:
    A non-issue. It is not the the raids leaking into fractals. It is just an evolution of the zerk meta from dungeons.

    Raid META builds actually work for fractals as well. So people less experienced people prefer to follow it to save time. It is not required and if you make your own non meta configured LFG it will fill in 2 minutes. Just like the old dungeon that constantly saw zerk parties or just like near HOT launch that you were constantly seeing 4 ripper on healer parties.

    It is a game. Optimal play will emerge and many people will prefer to go for the optimal even if unnecessary in the grand scheme of things. Every game will have the same evolution. Even in chess you find the same issues with standards plays and openings. It is not a real issue.

    To add to this I'd say it's also a problem with game balance. If druid is both mightstacker and healer and chrono has no competition for alacrity/quickness stacking, what's the point of playing other specs?

    The problem with the game, and it's present here since mentioned above dungeon meta, is that some specs are way too good, offer too much and it results in OP comp being overpowered. So it's not a rocket science people are expecting others to play such comp.

    It is improving though with every Elite Spec addition. In DPS from a zerk meta -> to a condi meta to now that both have roles depending on the encounter.
    Engis are a good support if you have condis in the party. Not if you have a power focused party. You can mix and match things way more than you could 2 years ago.

    That is the nature of the Spec system. Until sufficient Specs are added there will be voids in balance. Eventually a different tank and support Spec will be added and build diversity will increase and so on.

  • Kheldorn.5123Kheldorn.5123 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 16, 2018

    @Turin.6921 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    @Turin.6921 said:
    A non-issue. It is not the the raids leaking into fractals. It is just an evolution of the zerk meta from dungeons.

    Raid META builds actually work for fractals as well. So people less experienced people prefer to follow it to save time. It is not required and if you make your own non meta configured LFG it will fill in 2 minutes. Just like the old dungeon that constantly saw zerk parties or just like near HOT launch that you were constantly seeing 4 ripper on healer parties.

    It is a game. Optimal play will emerge and many people will prefer to go for the optimal even if unnecessary in the grand scheme of things. Every game will have the same evolution. Even in chess you find the same issues with standards plays and openings. It is not a real issue.

    To add to this I'd say it's also a problem with game balance. If druid is both mightstacker and healer and chrono has no competition for alacrity/quickness stacking, what's the point of playing other specs?

    The problem with the game, and it's present here since mentioned above dungeon meta, is that some specs are way too good, offer too much and it results in OP comp being overpowered. So it's not a rocket science people are expecting others to play such comp.

    It is improving though with every Elite Spec addition. In DPS from a zerk meta -> to a condi meta to now that both have roles depending on the encounter.
    Engis are a good support if you have condis in the party. Not if you have a power focused party. You can mix and match things way more than you could 2 years ago.

    That is the nature of the Spec system. Until sufficient Specs are added there will be voids in balance. Eventually a different tank and support Spec will be added and build diversity will increase and so on.

    DPS is still same role, no matter if it's power or condi. About engi, it's just 1 passive trait. You are still playing DPS role with a nice bonus.

    With raids and new fractals they wanted to shove into the game classic rpg roles. They kinda did, but the game is still unbalanced giving you basically 1 comp to play with. Just take minimal required number of meta supports and fill the rest with dps roles. That's anet directly creating hostile, elitist environment.

  • Turin.6921Turin.6921 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 16, 2018

    I already replied to you comment in my previous post. You are just repeating the same thing now. If you do not see the progression in the matter compared to 2 or 3 years ago then you are being very unreasonable.

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:
    Just take minimal required number of meta supports and fill the rest with dps roles. That's anet directly creating hostile, elitist environment.

    You should not confuse roles and optimal play with elitism and hostility. That is a grave misinterpretation. Again its a game roles and best practices will emerge and for many it is quite fun. You could have 15 different options per role and the same people would still be toxic. The only way to avoid that is to make everything viable even if you are playing with your nose and basically kill any essence of "game" in the process.

  • Kheldorn.5123Kheldorn.5123 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Turin.6921 said:
    I already replied to you comment in my previous post. You are just repeating the same thing now. If you do not see the progression in the matter compared to 2 or 3 years ago then you are being very unreasonable.

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:
    Just take minimal required number of meta supports and fill the rest with dps roles. That's anet directly creating hostile, elitist environment.

    You should not confuse roles and optimal play with elitism and hostility. That is a grave misinterpretation. Again its a game roles and best practices will emerge and for many it is quite fun. You could have 15 different options per role and the same people would still be toxic. The only way to avoid that is to make everything viable even if you are playing with your nose and basically kill any essence of "game" in the process.

    I neved denied a progress was made. We shifted from 1 semisupport 4 dps to 2 dedicated supports and 3 dps.

    Problem is, within the roles, you still have very limited options. Druid and Chrono are simply to good. I admit for dps, you have much more variety now.

    I woud love to see similar diversity and progression in support roles but what was established in HoT is still there after PoF.

  • Turin.6921Turin.6921 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 16, 2018

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    @Turin.6921 said:
    I already replied to you comment in my previous post. You are just repeating the same thing now. If you do not see the progression in the matter compared to 2 or 3 years ago then you are being very unreasonable.

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:
    Just take minimal required number of meta supports and fill the rest with dps roles. That's anet directly creating hostile, elitist environment.

    You should not confuse roles and optimal play with elitism and hostility. That is a grave misinterpretation. Again its a game roles and best practices will emerge and for many it is quite fun. You could have 15 different options per role and the same people would still be toxic. The only way to avoid that is to make everything viable even if you are playing with your nose and basically kill any essence of "game" in the process.

    I neved denied a progress was made. We shifted from 1 semisupport 4 dps to 2 dedicated supports and 3 dps.

    Problem is, within the roles, you still have very limited options. Druid and Chrono are simply to good. I admit for dps, you have much more variety now.

    I woud love to see similar diversity and progression in support roles but what was established in HoT is still there after PoF.

    Just requires a bit of patience. I think that is what they wanted from the scourge and barrier but failed (for now at least). So they are working on it. I think they want to avoid just making Specs that are carbon copies to what is already there. Plus if they change an existing Spec to be as good a support as a chrono by giving it the same things, for example, then options for future Specs diminish.

    Unfortunately big changes only come with expansions. Plus they have to balance for multiple game modes. So voids in the balance will be there.

    As long as things are progressing and new comps come up, albeit very slowly, we can still have fun with it. They finally manage to fix the DPS part (just now actually since condi and power i feel only truly worked as they should be after the December patch). Now it should be healer and support time to be fixed and extended.

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:
    Yes, unfortunately raiders are bleeding into fractals. This is because raids are weekly content and they have nothing else to do polluting more laid back modes with their unwanted attitudes.

    There a pretty ez fix to said problem. Make your own group :D

  • Kheldorn.5123Kheldorn.5123 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 16, 2018

    @zealex.9410 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:
    Yes, unfortunately raiders are bleeding into fractals. This is because raids are weekly content and they have nothing else to do polluting more laid back modes with their unwanted attitudes.

    There a pretty ez fix to said problem. Make your own group :D

    Unless I got as at least 3 man premade, what stops other players from highjacking my party?

  • The most annoying thing that I encounter are people hijacking my LFGs. With the exception of CM100, I make very minimal LFGs. "T4s" or "T4 pots" or "Recs". Prospective players, however see this as some form of absent-mindedness instead of a deliberate decision, so they'll change the LFG without consulting me. One time, I got into a silent fight with another player, who kept changing the LFG after I would change it back. Aside from this, I don't get many problems forming my own groups.

    But I have noticed that the amount of Chrono/Drood/BS parties has been on the rise. Which is odd, because fractals haven't suddenly become harder. People really get stuck in this mindset.

    The giraffe is an animal which, for sociopolitical arguments, I like to pretend does not exist.

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    @Shirlias.8104 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:
    Not at all. You are implying without verification that complaining about elitism = I don't want to or can't play efficiently

    Nope i don't.
    What i am saying is that most of the times people who don't play in a proper way tend to fail.

    Let's say that you have 100 out of 100 chances of success with a party with meta builds ( given the fact that players skill is the same ).

    numbers are just random. just follow the logic

    • If 1 out of 5 decide to bring a tanky build, let's say that the chances drops to 90 out of 100.
    • If then another player decide to play ranged dps instead of melee, dropping his DPS from X to Y, the the chances will eventually drop from 90 to 85.
    • If you don't have a full meta socketed equip + consumables, then obviously you will deal less damage even if you have the metabuild and stats needed, which brings the chanced down from 85 to 80.

    And so on.
    Given the most easiest way, the more you modify it, the harder the encounter becomes.

    And remember the most important thing.
    If i have 30 mins and i want to make some fractal runs, i don't care if you are performant even with a different build.
    I will play my meta and i will joing others with meta builds.

    And it's only a matter of time and efficiency.

    If somebody is playing with friends or simply other players who don't care about builds and equipment and consumables and infusions ( given the time obviously ) then there's the possibility that he decides to use a non meta build.

    In your message proper = efficient. But the reality is, that there are no dps checks in fractals. Yes, playing efficiently may be faster, if whole team understands and follows this concept. But playing slower is also proper way as long as you don't fail mechanics and manage to kill the boss.

    Dps checks arent only "kill something in x time or else u wipe" which funnily enough exists. Its also, the fact that the longer that u take to kill something the more chances u have to kitten up something and wipe. Not you personally but everyone in the group.

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    @zealex.9410 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:
    Yes, unfortunately raiders are bleeding into fractals. This is because raids are weekly content and they have nothing else to do polluting more laid back modes with their unwanted attitudes.

    There a pretty ez fix to said problem. Make your own group :D

    Unless I got as at least 3 man premade, what stops other players from highjacking my party?

    That works both ways.

  • Kheldorn.5123Kheldorn.5123 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @zealex.9410 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    @zealex.9410 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:
    Yes, unfortunately raiders are bleeding into fractals. This is because raids are weekly content and they have nothing else to do polluting more laid back modes with their unwanted attitudes.

    There a pretty ez fix to said problem. Make your own group :D

    Unless I got as at least 3 man premade, what stops other players from highjacking my party?

    That works both ways.

    Show me cases of power necros joining meta LFGs and changing description or kicking players for not playing power necros.

  • Faaris.8013Faaris.8013 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:
    Show me cases of power necros joining meta LFGs and changing description or kicking players for not playing power necros.

    Maybe not that, but my guild mates and me have kicked wannabe elitists from our group. We expect you to know your stuff and have pots and food, that's it. We got a guy who was trying to take over our group and making demands and playing this whole alpha-thing. I explained to him that he and us doesn't work because he's trying to take over the group and we do this every day together and that we are happy like this. Then we kicked him. I think we didn't ask for a chrono or so, and he insisted we need one.

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    @zealex.9410 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    @zealex.9410 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:
    Yes, unfortunately raiders are bleeding into fractals. This is because raids are weekly content and they have nothing else to do polluting more laid back modes with their unwanted attitudes.

    There a pretty ez fix to said problem. Make your own group :D

    Unless I got as at least 3 man premade, what stops other players from highjacking my party?

    That works both ways.

    Show me cases of power necros joining meta LFGs and changing description or kicking players for not playing power necros.

    Nobody stops them.

  • Vinceman.4572Vinceman.4572 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 16, 2018

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:
    Show me cases of power necros joining meta LFGs and changing description or kicking players for not playing power necros.

    Happened to me several times - not only necros but other classes for sure.
    But much more common is joining of players with classes/builds/no kps/no experience bìtching around including insults why the lfg was set up like this. Those people often are very abusive in terms of language. I don't know but if I see a lfg I don't like I personally don't join & care at all (except it's a big violation against the game rules like racism). I let players play their game, I want to play mine and I want others to respect my will as well as I respect theirs.

  • Feanor.2358Feanor.2358 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Faaris.8013 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:
    Show me cases of power necros joining meta LFGs and changing description or kicking players for not playing power necros.

    Maybe not that, but my guild mates and me have kicked wannabe elitists from our group. We expect you to know your stuff and have pots and food, that's it. We got a guy who was trying to take over our group and making demands and playing this whole alpha-thing. I explained to him that he and us doesn't work because he's trying to take over the group and we do this every day together and that we are happy like this. Then we kicked him. I think we didn't ask for a chrono or so, and he insisted we need one.

    Are you seriously asking for food in a non-meta party?

  • ReaverKane.7598ReaverKane.7598 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    @Shirlias.8104 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:
    Not at all. You are implying without verification that complaining about elitism = I don't want to or can't play efficiently

    Nope i don't.
    What i am saying is that most of the times people who don't play in a proper way tend to fail.

    Let's say that you have 100 out of 100 chances of success with a party with meta builds ( given the fact that players skill is the same ).

    numbers are just random. just follow the logic

    • If 1 out of 5 decide to bring a tanky build, let's say that the chances drops to 90 out of 100.
    • If then another player decide to play ranged dps instead of melee, dropping his DPS from X to Y, the the chances will eventually drop from 90 to 85.
    • If you don't have a full meta socketed equip + consumables, then obviously you will deal less damage even if you have the metabuild and stats needed, which brings the chanced down from 85 to 80.

    And so on.
    Given the most easiest way, the more you modify it, the harder the encounter becomes.

    And remember the most important thing.
    If i have 30 mins and i want to make some fractal runs, i don't care if you are performant even with a different build.
    I will play my meta and i will joing others with meta builds.

    And it's only a matter of time and efficiency.

    If somebody is playing with friends or simply other players who don't care about builds and equipment and consumables and infusions ( given the time obviously ) then there's the possibility that he decides to use a non meta build.

    In your message proper = efficient. But the reality is, that there are no dps checks in fractals. Yes, playing efficiently may be faster, if whole team understands and follows this concept. But playing slower is also proper way as long as you don't fail mechanics and manage to kill the boss.

    This is the DPS check for him, and it's also the DPS check for most people:

    @Shirlias.8104 said:
    If i have 30 mins and i want to make some fractal runs, i don't care if you are performant even with a different build.

    Not everyone has the whole day to cater to people who don't want to play efficiently. No one's forcing anyone to play meta builds. But if i want to do T4+recs in one hour (because that's usually the time i have to play before reset), then i don't want to have a Knight's Elementalist dragging the group down.
    I don't even care for classes or check builds, or even see if they have the right food or anything. I simply expect people to want to be efficient. If they don't, and the group starts failing encounters too often, then, yes, i vote to kick.
    I shouldn't be hindered from completing content because someone doesn't want to be on par with the requirements of the content.

  • Shirlias.8104Shirlias.8104 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ReaverKane.7598 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    @Shirlias.8104 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:
    Not at all. You are implying without verification that complaining about elitism = I don't want to or can't play efficiently

    Nope i don't.
    What i am saying is that most of the times people who don't play in a proper way tend to fail.

    Let's say that you have 100 out of 100 chances of success with a party with meta builds ( given the fact that players skill is the same ).

    numbers are just random. just follow the logic

    • If 1 out of 5 decide to bring a tanky build, let's say that the chances drops to 90 out of 100.
    • If then another player decide to play ranged dps instead of melee, dropping his DPS from X to Y, the the chances will eventually drop from 90 to 85.
    • If you don't have a full meta socketed equip + consumables, then obviously you will deal less damage even if you have the metabuild and stats needed, which brings the chanced down from 85 to 80.

    And so on.
    Given the most easiest way, the more you modify it, the harder the encounter becomes.

    And remember the most important thing.
    If i have 30 mins and i want to make some fractal runs, i don't care if you are performant even with a different build.
    I will play my meta and i will joing others with meta builds.

    And it's only a matter of time and efficiency.

    If somebody is playing with friends or simply other players who don't care about builds and equipment and consumables and infusions ( given the time obviously ) then there's the possibility that he decides to use a non meta build.

    In your message proper = efficient. But the reality is, that there are no dps checks in fractals. Yes, playing efficiently may be faster, if whole team understands and follows this concept. But playing slower is also proper way as long as you don't fail mechanics and manage to kill the boss.

    This is the DPS check for him, and it's also the DPS check for most people:

    @Shirlias.8104 said:
    If i have 30 mins and i want to make some fractal runs, i don't care if you are performant even with a different build.

    Not everyone has the whole day to cater to people who don't want to play efficiently. No one's forcing anyone to play meta builds. But if i want to do T4+recs in one hour (because that's usually the time i have to play before reset), then i don't want to have a Knight's Elementalist dragging the group down.
    I don't even care for classes or check builds, or even see if they have the right food or anything. I simply expect people to want to be efficient. If they don't, and the group starts failing encounters too often, then, yes, i vote to kick.
    I shouldn't be hindered from completing content because someone doesn't want to be on par with the requirements of the content.

    You probably quoted the wrong person or didn't understand the part you quoted.

  • Kheldorn.5123Kheldorn.5123 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @zealex.9410 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    @zealex.9410 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    @zealex.9410 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:
    Yes, unfortunately raiders are bleeding into fractals. This is because raids are weekly content and they have nothing else to do polluting more laid back modes with their unwanted attitudes.

    There a pretty ez fix to said problem. Make your own group :D

    Unless I got as at least 3 man premade, what stops other players from highjacking my party?

    That works both ways.

    Show me cases of power necros joining meta LFGs and changing description or kicking players for not playing power necros.

    Nobody stops them.

    Exactly. That's the problem. Game needs party leader system. So people actually have control over who they play with.

  • ReaverKane.7598ReaverKane.7598 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Shirlias.8104 said:

    @ReaverKane.7598 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    @Shirlias.8104 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:
    Not at all. You are implying without verification that complaining about elitism = I don't want to or can't play efficiently

    Nope i don't.
    What i am saying is that most of the times people who don't play in a proper way tend to fail.

    Let's say that you have 100 out of 100 chances of success with a party with meta builds ( given the fact that players skill is the same ).

    numbers are just random. just follow the logic

    • If 1 out of 5 decide to bring a tanky build, let's say that the chances drops to 90 out of 100.
    • If then another player decide to play ranged dps instead of melee, dropping his DPS from X to Y, the the chances will eventually drop from 90 to 85.
    • If you don't have a full meta socketed equip + consumables, then obviously you will deal less damage even if you have the metabuild and stats needed, which brings the chanced down from 85 to 80.

    And so on.
    Given the most easiest way, the more you modify it, the harder the encounter becomes.

    And remember the most important thing.
    If i have 30 mins and i want to make some fractal runs, i don't care if you are performant even with a different build.
    I will play my meta and i will joing others with meta builds.

    And it's only a matter of time and efficiency.

    If somebody is playing with friends or simply other players who don't care about builds and equipment and consumables and infusions ( given the time obviously ) then there's the possibility that he decides to use a non meta build.

    In your message proper = efficient. But the reality is, that there are no dps checks in fractals. Yes, playing efficiently may be faster, if whole team understands and follows this concept. But playing slower is also proper way as long as you don't fail mechanics and manage to kill the boss.

    This is the DPS check for him, and it's also the DPS check for most people:

    @Shirlias.8104 said:
    If i have 30 mins and i want to make some fractal runs, i don't care if you are performant even with a different build.

    Not everyone has the whole day to cater to people who don't want to play efficiently. No one's forcing anyone to play meta builds. But if i want to do T4+recs in one hour (because that's usually the time i have to play before reset), then i don't want to have a Knight's Elementalist dragging the group down.
    I don't even care for classes or check builds, or even see if they have the right food or anything. I simply expect people to want to be efficient. If they don't, and the group starts failing encounters too often, then, yes, i vote to kick.
    I shouldn't be hindered from completing content because someone doesn't want to be on par with the requirements of the content.

    You probably quoted the wrong person or didn't understand the part you quoted.

    Or maybe you didn't understand my post?
    @Kheldorn.5123 was saying that there isn't a DPS check in fractals. I was saying that the fact you had already said you wanted to complete fractals in under 30 minutes, that is the dps check. People ask for meta builds, even in raids, because of time constraints, not really because it's impossible to do without.

  • Kheldorn.5123Kheldorn.5123 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I simply expect people to want to be efficient.

    And literally nobody has any obligation to follow your expectation unless you're playing premade group.

  • Kheldorn.5123Kheldorn.5123 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ReaverKane.7598 said:

    @Shirlias.8104 said:

    @ReaverKane.7598 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    @Shirlias.8104 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:
    Not at all. You are implying without verification that complaining about elitism = I don't want to or can't play efficiently

    Nope i don't.
    What i am saying is that most of the times people who don't play in a proper way tend to fail.

    Let's say that you have 100 out of 100 chances of success with a party with meta builds ( given the fact that players skill is the same ).

    numbers are just random. just follow the logic

    • If 1 out of 5 decide to bring a tanky build, let's say that the chances drops to 90 out of 100.
    • If then another player decide to play ranged dps instead of melee, dropping his DPS from X to Y, the the chances will eventually drop from 90 to 85.
    • If you don't have a full meta socketed equip + consumables, then obviously you will deal less damage even if you have the metabuild and stats needed, which brings the chanced down from 85 to 80.

    And so on.
    Given the most easiest way, the more you modify it, the harder the encounter becomes.

    And remember the most important thing.
    If i have 30 mins and i want to make some fractal runs, i don't care if you are performant even with a different build.
    I will play my meta and i will joing others with meta builds.

    And it's only a matter of time and efficiency.

    If somebody is playing with friends or simply other players who don't care about builds and equipment and consumables and infusions ( given the time obviously ) then there's the possibility that he decides to use a non meta build.

    In your message proper = efficient. But the reality is, that there are no dps checks in fractals. Yes, playing efficiently may be faster, if whole team understands and follows this concept. But playing slower is also proper way as long as you don't fail mechanics and manage to kill the boss.

    This is the DPS check for him, and it's also the DPS check for most people:

    @Shirlias.8104 said:
    If i have 30 mins and i want to make some fractal runs, i don't care if you are performant even with a different build.

    Not everyone has the whole day to cater to people who don't want to play efficiently. No one's forcing anyone to play meta builds. But if i want to do T4+recs in one hour (because that's usually the time i have to play before reset), then i don't want to have a Knight's Elementalist dragging the group down.
    I don't even care for classes or check builds, or even see if they have the right food or anything. I simply expect people to want to be efficient. If they don't, and the group starts failing encounters too often, then, yes, i vote to kick.
    I shouldn't be hindered from completing content because someone doesn't want to be on par with the requirements of the content.

    You probably quoted the wrong person or didn't understand the part you quoted.

    Or maybe you didn't understand my post?
    @Kheldorn.5123 was saying that there isn't a DPS check in fractals. I was saying that the fact you had already said you wanted to complete fractals in under 30 minutes, that is the dps check. People ask for meta builds, even in raids, because of time constraints, not really because it's impossible to do without.

    It's not a dps check, it's exactly the elitism you are presenting here. You are creating artificial gate for content which devs never implemented. This is something you can create as your personal goal for your premade, not in a pug group. Unless you are out of reality.

  • ReaverKane.7598ReaverKane.7598 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    I simply expect people to want to be efficient.

    And literally nobody has any obligation to follow your expectation unless you're playing premade group.

    And that's why if they're underperforming, and the group is faltering, they get kicked. I'm also not obliged to carry anyone, nor is anyone obliged to carry me, or anyone else.
    And that's why people who care more than i do will ask for certain roles.
    I don't ask for any roles, because me and my brother fill the pertinent ones (chrono and druid) already so as to avoid issues. But then if a person can't even do enough DPS to stay above the two full support builds. They're a hindrance. And yeah a lot of times we still carry them, other times they need to go, depends on the rest of the group.

  • ReaverKane.7598ReaverKane.7598 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    @ReaverKane.7598 said:

    @Shirlias.8104 said:

    @ReaverKane.7598 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    @Shirlias.8104 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:
    Not at all. You are implying without verification that complaining about elitism = I don't want to or can't play efficiently

    Nope i don't.
    What i am saying is that most of the times people who don't play in a proper way tend to fail.

    Let's say that you have 100 out of 100 chances of success with a party with meta builds ( given the fact that players skill is the same ).

    numbers are just random. just follow the logic

    • If 1 out of 5 decide to bring a tanky build, let's say that the chances drops to 90 out of 100.
    • If then another player decide to play ranged dps instead of melee, dropping his DPS from X to Y, the the chances will eventually drop from 90 to 85.
    • If you don't have a full meta socketed equip + consumables, then obviously you will deal less damage even if you have the metabuild and stats needed, which brings the chanced down from 85 to 80.

    And so on.
    Given the most easiest way, the more you modify it, the harder the encounter becomes.

    And remember the most important thing.
    If i have 30 mins and i want to make some fractal runs, i don't care if you are performant even with a different build.
    I will play my meta and i will joing others with meta builds.

    And it's only a matter of time and efficiency.

    If somebody is playing with friends or simply other players who don't care about builds and equipment and consumables and infusions ( given the time obviously ) then there's the possibility that he decides to use a non meta build.

    In your message proper = efficient. But the reality is, that there are no dps checks in fractals. Yes, playing efficiently may be faster, if whole team understands and follows this concept. But playing slower is also proper way as long as you don't fail mechanics and manage to kill the boss.

    This is the DPS check for him, and it's also the DPS check for most people:

    @Shirlias.8104 said:
    If i have 30 mins and i want to make some fractal runs, i don't care if you are performant even with a different build.

    Not everyone has the whole day to cater to people who don't want to play efficiently. No one's forcing anyone to play meta builds. But if i want to do T4+recs in one hour (because that's usually the time i have to play before reset), then i don't want to have a Knight's Elementalist dragging the group down.
    I don't even care for classes or check builds, or even see if they have the right food or anything. I simply expect people to want to be efficient. If they don't, and the group starts failing encounters too often, then, yes, i vote to kick.
    I shouldn't be hindered from completing content because someone doesn't want to be on par with the requirements of the content.

    You probably quoted the wrong person or didn't understand the part you quoted.

    Or maybe you didn't understand my post?
    @Kheldorn.5123 was saying that there isn't a DPS check in fractals. I was saying that the fact you had already said you wanted to complete fractals in under 30 minutes, that is the dps check. People ask for meta builds, even in raids, because of time constraints, not really because it's impossible to do without.

    It's not a dps check, it's exactly the elitism you are presenting here. You are creating artificial gate for content which devs never implemented. This is something you can create as your personal goal for your premade, not in a pug group. Unless you are out of reality.

    No, it's not elitism. If i have 30 minutes to do something, then i want to do it in 30 minutes. Simple as that, i shouldn't have to settle because you did.
    It's not elitism, it's me managing the time constraints i have. I'm not obliged in any form to cater to your whims, as you're not obliged to cater to mine. So when i do a group, i try to find people that will allow me to complete the content within my constraints.
    You do the same.
    Your argument is like saying that everyone that has a Tinder app should go on a date with everyone the app matches with them, regardless of their own taste and wants.
    Because that's what the LFG is there for. To match you with other people to do a certain activity.

  • Shirlias.8104Shirlias.8104 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ReaverKane.7598 said:

    @Shirlias.8104 said:

    @ReaverKane.7598 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    @Shirlias.8104 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:
    Not at all. You are implying without verification that complaining about elitism = I don't want to or can't play efficiently

    Nope i don't.
    What i am saying is that most of the times people who don't play in a proper way tend to fail.

    Let's say that you have 100 out of 100 chances of success with a party with meta builds ( given the fact that players skill is the same ).

    numbers are just random. just follow the logic

    • If 1 out of 5 decide to bring a tanky build, let's say that the chances drops to 90 out of 100.
    • If then another player decide to play ranged dps instead of melee, dropping his DPS from X to Y, the the chances will eventually drop from 90 to 85.
    • If you don't have a full meta socketed equip + consumables, then obviously you will deal less damage even if you have the metabuild and stats needed, which brings the chanced down from 85 to 80.

    And so on.
    Given the most easiest way, the more you modify it, the harder the encounter becomes.

    And remember the most important thing.
    If i have 30 mins and i want to make some fractal runs, i don't care if you are performant even with a different build.
    I will play my meta and i will joing others with meta builds.

    And it's only a matter of time and efficiency.

    If somebody is playing with friends or simply other players who don't care about builds and equipment and consumables and infusions ( given the time obviously ) then there's the possibility that he decides to use a non meta build.

    In your message proper = efficient. But the reality is, that there are no dps checks in fractals. Yes, playing efficiently may be faster, if whole team understands and follows this concept. But playing slower is also proper way as long as you don't fail mechanics and manage to kill the boss.

    This is the DPS check for him, and it's also the DPS check for most people:

    @Shirlias.8104 said:
    If i have 30 mins and i want to make some fractal runs, i don't care if you are performant even with a different build.

    Not everyone has the whole day to cater to people who don't want to play efficiently. No one's forcing anyone to play meta builds. But if i want to do T4+recs in one hour (because that's usually the time i have to play before reset), then i don't want to have a Knight's Elementalist dragging the group down.
    I don't even care for classes or check builds, or even see if they have the right food or anything. I simply expect people to want to be efficient. If they don't, and the group starts failing encounters too often, then, yes, i vote to kick.
    I shouldn't be hindered from completing content because someone doesn't want to be on par with the requirements of the content.

    You probably quoted the wrong person or didn't understand the part you quoted.

    Or maybe you didn't understand my post?

    So were you supporting what i stated in a not so proper way?
    You basically stated what i said previously, and in that part of the quoted message too.

  • ReaverKane.7598ReaverKane.7598 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Shirlias.8104 said:

    @ReaverKane.7598 said:

    @Shirlias.8104 said:

    @ReaverKane.7598 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    @Shirlias.8104 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:
    Not at all. You are implying without verification that complaining about elitism = I don't want to or can't play efficiently

    Nope i don't.
    What i am saying is that most of the times people who don't play in a proper way tend to fail.

    Let's say that you have 100 out of 100 chances of success with a party with meta builds ( given the fact that players skill is the same ).

    numbers are just random. just follow the logic

    • If 1 out of 5 decide to bring a tanky build, let's say that the chances drops to 90 out of 100.
    • If then another player decide to play ranged dps instead of melee, dropping his DPS from X to Y, the the chances will eventually drop from 90 to 85.
    • If you don't have a full meta socketed equip + consumables, then obviously you will deal less damage even if you have the metabuild and stats needed, which brings the chanced down from 85 to 80.

    And so on.
    Given the most easiest way, the more you modify it, the harder the encounter becomes.

    And remember the most important thing.
    If i have 30 mins and i want to make some fractal runs, i don't care if you are performant even with a different build.
    I will play my meta and i will joing others with meta builds.

    And it's only a matter of time and efficiency.

    If somebody is playing with friends or simply other players who don't care about builds and equipment and consumables and infusions ( given the time obviously ) then there's the possibility that he decides to use a non meta build.

    In your message proper = efficient. But the reality is, that there are no dps checks in fractals. Yes, playing efficiently may be faster, if whole team understands and follows this concept. But playing slower is also proper way as long as you don't fail mechanics and manage to kill the boss.

    This is the DPS check for him, and it's also the DPS check for most people:

    @Shirlias.8104 said:
    If i have 30 mins and i want to make some fractal runs, i don't care if you are performant even with a different build.

    Not everyone has the whole day to cater to people who don't want to play efficiently. No one's forcing anyone to play meta builds. But if i want to do T4+recs in one hour (because that's usually the time i have to play before reset), then i don't want to have a Knight's Elementalist dragging the group down.
    I don't even care for classes or check builds, or even see if they have the right food or anything. I simply expect people to want to be efficient. If they don't, and the group starts failing encounters too often, then, yes, i vote to kick.
    I shouldn't be hindered from completing content because someone doesn't want to be on par with the requirements of the content.

    You probably quoted the wrong person or didn't understand the part you quoted.

    Or maybe you didn't understand my post?

    So were you supporting what i stated in a not so proper way?
    You basically stated what i said previously, and in that part of the quoted message too.

    ...
    Dude, i wasn't replying to you, i was replying to Kheldorn saying you already had stated your DPS check, as in your time restrictions...
    Reading comprehension much?

  • Shirlias.8104Shirlias.8104 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 16, 2018

    I was confused because it was not a dps check, since the equipment is not necessarily related to skill ( especially here in GW2, i would say ), but now I understand what you consider about DPS check ( which is not ).

    To explain things better:

    When you want to do fractals or raid you have some ways to make you up your party of elitists as you:

    • Equipment check
    • LI ( if raid )
    • Class/Build Check
    • Eventually Title
    • Etc...

    But you can't be totally sure that the one you allowed to join your group is performant because

    • It could have been boosted ( pay for runs )
    • It could have been carried ( not so skilled but lucky to find good groups ).
    • It could be skilled, but not with this class which is new for him ( even though he has the right build/equipment ).

    Eventually, you will have to kick him and looking for someone else ( it's a possibility, if the one you invited sucks ).

    That's why when i talk about the right

    • Class
    • Build
    • Equip
    • Consumables
    • Etc...

    I mean that there are some ways to limit the RNG ( the player's skill and knowledge ).

  • Vulf.3098Vulf.3098 Member ✭✭✭

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:
    In your message proper = efficient. But the reality is, that there are no dps checks in fractals. Yes, playing efficiently may be faster, if whole team understands and follows this concept. But playing slower is also proper way as long as you don't fail mechanics and manage to kill the boss.

    Pugs want a druid because it removes errors from the group in the off chance of a wipe.
    If we are talking time efficiency in clears the best comp is chrono and 4 dps.

    I get the chrono and druid in pugs but BS has not been meta in pugs since the nerf. It is actually a dps loss to run that over an Ele, Holo or DH in that slot.

  • Feanor.2358Feanor.2358 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ReaverKane.7598 said:

    @Shirlias.8104 said:

    @ReaverKane.7598 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    @Shirlias.8104 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:
    Not at all. You are implying without verification that complaining about elitism = I don't want to or can't play efficiently

    Nope i don't.
    What i am saying is that most of the times people who don't play in a proper way tend to fail.

    Let's say that you have 100 out of 100 chances of success with a party with meta builds ( given the fact that players skill is the same ).

    numbers are just random. just follow the logic

    • If 1 out of 5 decide to bring a tanky build, let's say that the chances drops to 90 out of 100.
    • If then another player decide to play ranged dps instead of melee, dropping his DPS from X to Y, the the chances will eventually drop from 90 to 85.
    • If you don't have a full meta socketed equip + consumables, then obviously you will deal less damage even if you have the metabuild and stats needed, which brings the chanced down from 85 to 80.

    And so on.
    Given the most easiest way, the more you modify it, the harder the encounter becomes.

    And remember the most important thing.
    If i have 30 mins and i want to make some fractal runs, i don't care if you are performant even with a different build.
    I will play my meta and i will joing others with meta builds.

    And it's only a matter of time and efficiency.

    If somebody is playing with friends or simply other players who don't care about builds and equipment and consumables and infusions ( given the time obviously ) then there's the possibility that he decides to use a non meta build.

    In your message proper = efficient. But the reality is, that there are no dps checks in fractals. Yes, playing efficiently may be faster, if whole team understands and follows this concept. But playing slower is also proper way as long as you don't fail mechanics and manage to kill the boss.

    This is the DPS check for him, and it's also the DPS check for most people:

    @Shirlias.8104 said:
    If i have 30 mins and i want to make some fractal runs, i don't care if you are performant even with a different build.

    Not everyone has the whole day to cater to people who don't want to play efficiently. No one's forcing anyone to play meta builds. But if i want to do T4+recs in one hour (because that's usually the time i have to play before reset), then i don't want to have a Knight's Elementalist dragging the group down.
    I don't even care for classes or check builds, or even see if they have the right food or anything. I simply expect people to want to be efficient. If they don't, and the group starts failing encounters too often, then, yes, i vote to kick.
    I shouldn't be hindered from completing content because someone doesn't want to be on par with the requirements of the content.

    You probably quoted the wrong person or didn't understand the part you quoted.

    Or maybe you didn't understand my post?
    @Kheldorn.5123 was saying that there isn't a DPS check in fractals. I was saying that the fact you had already said you wanted to complete fractals in under 30 minutes, that is the dps check. People ask for meta builds, even in raids, because of time constraints, not really because it's impossible to do without.

    I don't think it's about time constraints that much. It just isn't fun to wipe over and over again on the same content you've completed smoothly time and again.

  • JVJD.4912JVJD.4912 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 16, 2018

    Elitism never caught up on dungeons, they will not catch up in fractals
    There are more laid back groups than them
    They will be waiting considerably longer or end up with trolls sabotaging their runs ( its what ppl used to do back in the day, need a vote to kick right?? good luck)

    Eventually they will regress to their guilds and leave randoms alone

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    @zealex.9410 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    @zealex.9410 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    @zealex.9410 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:
    Yes, unfortunately raiders are bleeding into fractals. This is because raids are weekly content and they have nothing else to do polluting more laid back modes with their unwanted attitudes.

    There a pretty ez fix to said problem. Make your own group :D

    Unless I got as at least 3 man premade, what stops other players from highjacking my party?

    That works both ways.

    Show me cases of power necros joining meta LFGs and changing description or kicking players for not playing power necros.

    Nobody stops them.

    Exactly. That's the problem. Game needs party leader system. So people actually have control over who they play with.

    Sure why not

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