Black lion chest thoughts

I know this will be a heated topic so let me express my opinion.

I think black lion chests are NOT lotto boxes or gambling. Rather they are gift boxes and you pay real life money to get items ( useful or trash) in exchange for gems gold dollars.

The biggest mistake i notice about the community is they call black lion chest lotto because their only concern is to make gold / profit.

YOU SHOULDN'T buy black lion chest to make gold or gamble. You shouls only buy chest if you can use the items inside the box for fractals wvw cosmetics or keeping.

If you want to gamble you can do ecto or coin gambling in lions arch or aaemoon.

Any ways i think black lion chest are not worth the gems ONLY if you don't want the items. They are great gift boxes but horrible for making gold.

Just turn gems into gold. You make more gold and can buy direct.

So the key thing is - if you buy black lion chest for lotto / profit - than you already lost. They are gift boxes not gold gambling chests.

@"Anthony.7260" said:The biggest mistake i notice about the community is they call black lion chest lotto because their only concern is to make gold / profit.

I suppose one might call them "gift boxes" in the sense of White Elephant Exchanges.

I call it a lotto because that's what it is: it drops junk, with a tiny tiny chance of something fun and a tinier chance of something that will change the opener's game. That is exactly how lottery works.

ANet doesn't actually call it "lotto" — they just call it Black Lion Chest and let us draw the conclusions we want to draw, which is why some people have unrealistic expectations of the typical drops.

@"Anthony.7260" said:The biggest mistake i notice about the community is they call black lion chest lotto because their only concern is to make gold / profit.I don't care about "gold / profit", the only thing I want from it is the Wild Magic Backpack Glider Combo but I have do deal with the horrible Black Lion Chest RNG thanks to A-Net not selling it separately. The whole thing looks exactly like a lottery to me.

Don't buy RNG.

I've always viewed gambling and lotto's (and I know I'm not alone on this), that if you don't get something equal in return as to what you spent, it's gambling or a lotto. So to make things easy here, suppose I spent 500g on getting BL chest keys. I begin to open up however many BL chests I could, if the end result isn't at least a 500g return, it's gambling or a lotto. This is in essence exactly how the BL chests work, you can easily spend 500g but in the end be left with practically nothing.

The reason most people call it lotto box is because they have this thing called "Common, Uncommon, Rare, and Very Rare" tags on them,It's telling you that "You have a small CHANCE to win this big reward", and so.. it is lotto boxes. (at least for me)

If you have to pay for it, it's not a "gift" of any kind.

"Lottery" may not be the right word, but it's still a game of luck that they want you to pay to play.

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

@"Anthony.7260" said:The biggest mistake i notice about the community is they call black lion chest lotto because their only concern is to make gold / profit.

One mans junk is another mans treasure, about the only junk thing I get from those chests are the Makeover kits, whether it's the total or hair style, personally they are useless...oh, and the teleport to friend, 180+ and counting, should just trash them, but I won't until I reach a full stack, then all future ones hit the trash.

Most lotteries in RL reward most players with nothing at all.1 player gets a mega reward, and a small number get smaller rewards, but most get nothing at all.There would be outrage though if you got nothing from a BL chest, so thats why you get junk.Its just pure gambling, but unlike most forms of gambling, the odds of getting something good are not known.

Thank you for sharing your opinion. You are wrong. However, Anet made a big step with BL statuettes. Most likely a preparation or incoming regulations for gambling in video games which is exploitation of children. With the statuettes Anet can now say that even with 100% bad rng you will get what you want. Eventually.

Still hate gaming industry as a whole, anet included, for exploiting children with gambling.

@mauried.5608 said:Most lotteries in RL reward most players with nothing at all.1 player gets a mega reward, and a small number get smaller rewards, but most get nothing at all.There would be outrage though if you got nothing from a BL chest, so thats why you get junk.Its just pure gambling, but unlike most forms of gambling, the odds of getting something good are not known.

The odds can also be counter-intuitive. Not saying they are but it is a possible setup.

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:Thank you for sharing your opinion. You are wrong. However, Anet made a big step with BL statuettes. Most likely a preparation or incoming regulations for gambling in video games which is exploitation of children. With the statuettes Anet can now say that even with 100% bad rng you will get what you want. Eventually.

Still hate gaming industry as a whole, anet included, for exploiting children with gambling.

What about ... baseball cards? Pokemon cards? Long list of all other cards with similar mechanics? Carnival games? Crane/claw machines?

As for exploiting children ... more likely exploiting adults than children or children with inattentive parents. Most children do not have control over a lot of money.

@Khisanth.2948 said:

@mauried.5608 said:Most lotteries in RL reward most players with nothing at all.1 player gets a mega reward, and a small number get smaller rewards, but most get nothing at all.There would be outrage though if you got nothing from a BL chest, so thats why you get junk.Its just pure gambling, but unlike most forms of gambling, the odds of getting something good are not known.

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:Thank you for sharing your opinion. You are wrong. However, Anet made a big step with BL statuettes. Most likely a preparation or incoming regulations for gambling in video games which is exploitation of children. With the statuettes Anet can now say that even with 100% bad rng you will get what you want. Eventually.

Still hate gaming industry as a whole, anet included, for exploiting children with gambling.

McDonald's did the same strategy many years ago, introduce toys so children will make adults buy stuff for them. This is the same tactic. It's shady. Also, industry is teaching current children that gambling is fine so when they become adults, they gonna be familiar with the concept and happy to spend more money on lootboxes. This is a longterm strategy developed by educated people to manipulate customers to accept bad deals.

It is a lottery like on a carnival, not a lottery where you spend money and expect money in return.

• In a state lottery, you spend real money and you can win real money.
• In the BLC lottery, you can spend real money or ingame currency and you can not win real money, only ingame stuff.
• At a carnival, you have to spend real money and only get stuff, usually crap that's worth less than the lottery ticket.

Black Lion Chests come closest to carnival lotteries in my book, since you can never win any real money and the vast majority of items is crap you don't need or want, and you can buy the keys with real money. At a carnival lottery, you are better off just buying the big item you want instead of buying lottery tickets, and it's the same with BLCs. People buy carnival lottery tickets for the same reason they buy BLC keys. They want something specific, like the Jackal Puppy backpack skin, or they do it for the dopamine rush, the excitement. As long as you get keys with ingame currency or other means (map completion, story), it's just part of the game and gives similar dopamine as opening 12 fractal daily chests after you've spend 30 minutes getting them, hoping that a nice ascended box is in them.

As soon as you spend real money for keys, it's like a carnival lottery. It's both legal of course, don't get me wrong. What bothers me is that there is no time restriction on BLCs. A carnival is open for a limited period of time, and you lose only so much money because you probably visit it once in that whole period. You also have to pay cash and you are not carrying hundreds of Euros with you to a carnival. It might even be fun to spend 20 bucks on lottery tickets and carry home a big plush teddy bear that you could have bought for 7 Euros online (your kid will remember the day more than an online transaction). BLCs allow limitless addiction and limitless dopamine rushes. You can spend all of your money, every day, every hour, 24/7 all year. And you are not handing over paper money, cash, you just enter the code of your credit card. It can be highly addictive and can destroy peoples' lifes. A carnival lottery cannot really do that.

To me it's definitely not a lottery, because you are not able to trade all the goods you win.You are forced to redeem most of the goods, even though some can be traded.

There's no progression by opening BLC, nor a granted loot every X chests ( like it is on many other games ).They are only meant to unlock earlier a specific skin ( or for the thrill of the RNG ).

@"Anthony.7260" said:I know this will be a heated topic so let me express my opinion.

I think black lion chests are NOT lotto boxes or gambling. Rather they are gift boxes and you pay real life money to get items ( useful or trash) in exchange for gems gold dollars.

The biggest mistake i notice about the community is they call black lion chest lotto because their only concern is to make gold / profit.

YOU SHOULDN'T buy black lion chest to make gold or gamble. You shouls only buy chest if you can use the items inside the box for fractals wvw cosmetics or keeping.

If you want to gamble you can do ecto or coin gambling in lions arch or aaemoon.

Any ways i think black lion chest are not worth the gems ONLY if you don't want the items. They are great gift boxes but horrible for making gold.

Just turn gems into gold. You make more gold and can buy direct.

So the key thing is - if you buy black lion chest for lotto / profit - than you already lost. They are gift boxes not gold gambling chests.

I have no clue what "gift boxes" are I guess.As i thought gift boxes were boxes with gifts in them.I've heard of "treating yourself to something" which can be considered gifting yourself... but I would never gift myself junk... at least on purpose.Glares at Mass Effect 3

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:McDonald's did the same strategy many years ago, introduce toys so children will make adults buy stuff for them. This is the same tactic. It's shady. Also, industry is teaching current children that gambling is fine so when they become adults, they gonna be familiar with the concept and happy to spend more money on lootboxes. This is a longterm strategy developed by educated people to manipulate customers to accept bad deals.

Nope. There's a reason that microtransactions are called a whale based economy: most players don't buy in to it. Only a very small fraction (1.5% for mobile games, circa 2014) actually pays real world money for things, and in that group only a small number go full ham and dump a lot of cash. The vast majority of players don't make any in-game purchases at all These practices don't shape player behavior any more than the motion of the stars do.

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@Khisanth.2948 said:

@mauried.5608 said:Most lotteries in RL reward most players with nothing at all.1 player gets a mega reward, and a small number get smaller rewards, but most get nothing at all.There would be outrage though if you got nothing from a BL chest, so thats why you get junk.Its just pure gambling, but unlike most forms of gambling, the odds of getting something good are not known.

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:Thank you for sharing your opinion. You are wrong. However, Anet made a big step with BL statuettes. Most likely a preparation or incoming regulations for gambling in video games which is exploitation of children. With the statuettes Anet can now say that even with 100% bad rng you will get what you want. Eventually.

Still hate gaming industry as a whole, anet included, for exploiting children with gambling.

You don't have to buy the food to get the toy.My mother used to go and buy the toy and bring those without having to buy those happy meal things.

@Ayumi Spender.1082 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@Khisanth.2948 said:

@mauried.5608 said:Most lotteries in RL reward most players with nothing at all.1 player gets a mega reward, and a small number get smaller rewards, but most get nothing at all.There would be outrage though if you got nothing from a BL chest, so thats why you get junk.Its just pure gambling, but unlike most forms of gambling, the odds of getting something good are not known.

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:Thank you for sharing your opinion. You are wrong. However, Anet made a big step with BL statuettes. Most likely a preparation or incoming regulations for gambling in video games which is exploitation of children. With the statuettes Anet can now say that even with 100% bad rng you will get what you want. Eventually.

Still hate gaming industry as a whole, anet included, for exploiting children with gambling.

It's not universal for every country in the world.

@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:McDonald's did the same strategy many years ago, introduce toys so children will make adults buy stuff for them. This is the same tactic. It's shady. Also, industry is teaching current children that gambling is fine so when they become adults, they gonna be familiar with the concept and happy to spend more money on lootboxes. This is a longterm strategy developed by educated people to manipulate customers to accept bad deals.

There are microtransactions and "micro"transaction.

What you are talking about are pricy mount skins in GW2. They are targeted towards whales.

But for small purchases, like BL keys, it's targeted at everybody. Look at their scheme - from time to time they offer you free key in gemstore. So you don't care what you get, it's free right? But they are already programming you, the thrill of gambling is there and in some cases it's gonna work. You get baited to buy next key, and another one, and another, wishing for the big prize. Or anything expensive you can sell. Let's say you buy 1 key per week. It's still money for them. This system is made to teach you to accept gambling and not getting the desired reward to overpay for multiple tries.

@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:McDonald's did the same strategy many years ago, introduce toys so children will make adults buy stuff for them. This is the same tactic. It's shady. Also, industry is teaching current children that gambling is fine so when they become adults, they gonna be familiar with the concept and happy to spend more money on lootboxes. This is a longterm strategy developed by educated people to manipulate customers to accept bad deals.

That just means it's not 100% effective. It's like saying that because the majority of people don't drink alcohol or only drink occasionally it's not addictive. It's been scientifically proven that it is (to the point where if you drink enough of it stopping completely straight away can kill you because your body is so dependent on it being there), it's just that there's a lot of other factors involved.

Obviously this is a bit different because it's purely psychological, you can't be physically addicted to gambling, but otherwise it's exactly the same principal. Different people have different tolerances (and different levels of what they can handle, or in this case afford) but just because some people will never reach a point where it's a problem doesn't mean no one will.

This is one reason I refuse to ever buy black lion keys with gold or real money. Strange as it might sound if it's an absolute no then it's relatively easy for me to stick to it. If I let myself do it, even if I set a limit on how much I can spend then I can start doing all kinds of mental gymnastics to convince myself it's ok to spend...whatever it takes to get the things I want (no matter how much that is) and it's only when it's too late - when the money isn't there for the rent or food or whatever else I really do need, that I'd have to admit it wasn't ok to do that.

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:McDonald's did the same strategy many years ago, introduce toys so children will make adults buy stuff for them. This is the same tactic. It's shady. Also, industry is teaching current children that gambling is fine so when they become adults, they gonna be familiar with the concept and happy to spend more money on lootboxes. This is a longterm strategy developed by educated people to manipulate customers to accept bad deals.

That doesn't work. All these practices produce exactly zero habitual gamblers. That "free key" quickly demonstrates that the BLCs are garbage and not worth the time. The fact is that 49/50 people have enough wit to know when they're being gamed. The Swrve Survey that found these numbers monitored in-game purchases over all their games for the span of a full month. Tens of millions of gamers, and nobody buys anything.

This isn't like drugs, which forcibly alter your brain chemistry. The BLCs can't shape you to gamble. The BLCs exist to find the people who are already loose or generous with their money in the first place. BTW I acquired all mount licenses without spending a single cent of real world money.

@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:McDonald's did the same strategy many years ago, introduce toys so children will make adults buy stuff for them. This is the same tactic. It's shady. Also, industry is teaching current children that gambling is fine so when they become adults, they gonna be familiar with the concept and happy to spend more money on lootboxes. This is a longterm strategy developed by educated people to manipulate customers to accept bad deals.

Casinos don't use drugs either and yet they can make you addicted to gambling. BLCs and other gambling boxes are created by people educated at customer manipulation. They study how to make people into buying these things.

If it wasn't true how is it possible that more and more companies claim they get more money from micros than from sales? Even for single player games?

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:McDonald's did the same strategy many years ago, introduce toys so children will make adults buy stuff for them. This is the same tactic. It's shady. Also, industry is teaching current children that gambling is fine so when they become adults, they gonna be familiar with the concept and happy to spend more money on lootboxes. This is a longterm strategy developed by educated people to manipulate customers to accept bad deals.

Because the micro affects a wider part of users.Remember also that here we do have a gold to gems transiction, which also explain why they are making high priced bundles instead of small items.

@Shirlias.8104 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:McDonald's did the same strategy many years ago, introduce toys so children will make adults buy stuff for them. This is the same tactic. It's shady. Also, industry is teaching current children that gambling is fine so when they become adults, they gonna be familiar with the concept and happy to spend more money on lootboxes. This is a longterm strategy developed by educated people to manipulate customers to accept bad deals.

Of course it does, because people are manipulated into spending 5 USD multiple times instead of 50 USD one time, making more profit for the company. And loot boxes take huge part in it until you realize you paid 500 USD for loot boxes to get this one item worth nothing more but 15 USD.

Anyway, I think like I already posted in other (exactly the same) discussion - nothing is going to change. People are buying and will be buying these things. Gaming industry already programmed customers that you buy AAA game for full price and you still are supposed to spend more for microtransactions. Nothing is going to change.

But if you think about numbers of copy which have been sold, the absence of a monthly subscription, devs and servers cost and the possibility of converting golds to gems, you can realize that high priced bundles are needed to gw2 in order to survive.