Scourge Weakness Spam Threads

A couple months ago (or however long it's been) I jumped ship because it was clear A. Net wasn't going to be doing competent balance anytime soon. At the time, my absolute biggest gripe was the constant weakness spam Scourge has.

When I pointed out it was excessive a few months ago, many agreed but some people insisted it was fine.

Came to check the forums just now to see if anything has been done. Of course nothing official, but I noticed three separate threads (now four!) on this issue on the first page. It really is bonkers. You can run a condi cleanse build, but if you generate might (which many builds are forced to) enjoy your constant weakness anytime a Scourge is near you.

And as it has been pointed out over and over again Weakness is not a reasonable corruption for Might. Might gives small, incremental damage boosts and has to stack to be significant. Weakness is a massive loss of burst damage that can potentially render the glassiest of cannons' strikes into wet noodles.

On paper this is so clearly imbalanced, and I'm having an impossible time seeing how nobody responsible for balance has seen any need to address this in so long.

Anyhoo, just wanted to stop by and confirm we're still balancing by drawing nerfs/buffs out of a hat once every 6 months. See you guys in April or some such! Maybe A. Net will get mah expansion shmeckles then.

The problem is not only weakness but all the other condis too, you cleanse them once with "OP" cleanses like the guardian contemplation of purity or the elixir of engi, which removes all the condis you have, and one second later you have even more condis than before... pretty broken.

Even more condi mirage with 20 stacks confusion covered, and one second later literally you have another 15 stacks.Anet knows it for months and keeps delay and delay.

I was awaiting this weakness spam to be reduced aswell,but ow well,what can you do.And mirage with its dmg output + survivability is kinda broken aswell.Remmember when someone had 5-6stacks of confu on em,and thought,omg that a lot :).Or when IP from engie was considered OP?Not even old thief/warrior perplexity "without CD" builds were as crazy as nowadays mirage.I miss old guildwars,might been bit repetetive after 2 years,but still better than this :(

@"whoknocks.4935" said:The problem is not only weakness but all the other condis too, you cleanse them once with "OP" cleanses like the guardian contemplation of purity or the elixir of engi, which removes all the condis you have, and one second later you have even more condis than before... pretty broken.

Even more condi mirage with 20 stacks confusion covered, and one second later literally you have another 15 stacks.Anet knows it for months and keeps delay and delay.

Because those conditions you just converted to boons with Contemplation of Purity got corrupted again.

Scourges are ok if your team can manage to focus them down. Np. Also,stay out of shades and dodge their torch

@insaneseagull.7063 said:

@"whoknocks.4935" said:The problem is not only weakness but all the other condis too, you cleanse them once with "OP" cleanses like the guardian contemplation of purity or the elixir of engi, which removes all the condis you have, and one second later you have even more condis than before... pretty broken.

Even more condi mirage with 20 stacks confusion covered, and one second later literally you have another 15 stacks.Anet knows it for months and keeps delay and delay.

You just lost your capture point while staying out of shades.

@nicknamenick.2437 said:

@insaneseagull.7063 said:

@"whoknocks.4935" said:The problem is not only weakness but all the other condis too, you cleanse them once with "OP" cleanses like the guardian contemplation of purity or the elixir of engi, which removes all the condis you have, and one second later you have even more condis than before... pretty broken.

Even more condi mirage with 20 stacks confusion covered, and one second later literally you have another 15 stacks.Anet knows it for months and keeps delay and delay.

Exactly, always have to leave the point and 2vs1 a freaking scourge, it is not healthy at all in a game where you win holding the control points.

Scourge arrives starts spamming and you cannot even go melee or die. You have to stay constantly 1200 range and not all classes can do that, and sometimes is not even enough if the scourge is not completely dumb like the majority of them.

It is the only class that allow a bad player to kill a better player. The enemy of scourge if make a mistake is dead, if the scourge is 3% health, he spams and suddenly with all the barriers go 50% again, and this keeping the damage condi pressure nonstop.

@nicknamenick.2437 said:

@insaneseagull.7063 said:

@"whoknocks.4935" said:The problem is not only weakness but all the other condis too, you cleanse them once with "OP" cleanses like the guardian contemplation of purity or the elixir of engi, which removes all the condis you have, and one second later you have even more condis than before... pretty broken.

Even more condi mirage with 20 stacks confusion covered, and one second later literally you have another 15 stacks.Anet knows it for months and keeps delay and delay.

As a general rule you should avoid 1v1'ing scourges if you can't burst them down quick enough.

@insaneseagull.7063 said:

@nicknamenick.2437 said:

@insaneseagull.7063 said:

@"whoknocks.4935" said:The problem is not only weakness but all the other condis too, you cleanse them once with "OP" cleanses like the guardian contemplation of purity or the elixir of engi, which removes all the condis you have, and one second later you have even more condis than before... pretty broken.

Even more condi mirage with 20 stacks confusion covered, and one second later literally you have another 15 stacks.Anet knows it for months and keeps delay and delay.

And that seems healthy for PvP in your opinion?

Firebrand is bunker but does zero damage to you if he camps a node.

Scourge bunker as well plus too crazy aoe damage nonstop, and again: conquest mode is all about holding points, it is a cancer having a class which spams double of the area of the control point itself. You have to renounce to a point or you get killed. So lame.

I never understood why might stacks wernt flipped to vulnrability when corrupted

@ukuni.8745 said:I never understood why might stacks wernt flipped to vulnrability when corrupted

It get's flipped to weakness not to vulnerability.Protection turns into vulnerability.

But in a game in which almost has any class have always boons even only by weapons 1-5 skills, boon corruption of scourge is too broken.

@whoknocks.4935 said:

@ukuni.8745 said:I never understood why might stacks wernt flipped to vulnrability when corrupted

Yep i know that allready what im saying is i think might getting flipped to vulnrability would make more sense, like hey i turned your extra damage into my extra damage and same goes for protection hey i turned your extra tank into my extra tank since weakness.

They say don't go with many boons against a scourge, but it's literally no possible, even with my holo simply doing the photon forge combo I up with 25 might stacks, stability, fury, swiftness, vigor... You cannot avoid or stop your class from generating those boons which are inside weapon skills. Having zero boons is almost impossible even if you just do autoattack only... and obviously just autoattack only you die in few seconds without even trying.

@ukuni.8745 said:

@whoknocks.4935 said:

@ukuni.8745 said:I never understood why might stacks wernt flipped to vulnrability when corrupted

When you think about it that way,sure it makes sense. But think about it,so does weakness.

The warriors might is converted into its weakness. Strong/Weak are polar opposites.

@insaneseagull.7063 said:

@ukuni.8745 said:

@whoknocks.4935 said:

@ukuni.8745 said:I never understood why might stacks wernt flipped to vulnrability when corrupted

Is it just me or is this guy completely clueless. Just like Scourge main would be.

@obcan.1470 said:

@insaneseagull.7063 said:

@ukuni.8745 said:

@whoknocks.4935 said:

@ukuni.8745 said:I never understood why might stacks wernt flipped to vulnrability when corrupted

Aiming for the scourge oscar.Or troll of the day.

@obcan.1470 said:

@insaneseagull.7063 said:

@ukuni.8745 said:

@whoknocks.4935 said:

@ukuni.8745 said:I never understood why might stacks wernt flipped to vulnrability when corrupted

So you're telling me Strong/Weak aren't contrasts at all? I'm just pointing out that it makes sense when might is converted into weakness. More so than getting turned into vulnerability. Protection get turned into vulnerability. Makes more sense than might getting turned into vulnerability.

@insaneseagull.7063 said:

@obcan.1470 said:

@insaneseagull.7063 said:

@ukuni.8745 said:

@whoknocks.4935 said:

@ukuni.8745 said:I never understood why might stacks wernt flipped to vulnrability when corrupted

depends on how you look at i guess, when i think corrupting boons i think turning boons against the target so therefore turning someones damage against them just makes more sense to me.

As I said: scourge needs to have removed the PbAoE shade.

Remove that absurd mobile 600 shade and scourge will have to manage the shades better.

Right now I brain dead: put shades on point but also because it has the mobile, and I repeat a mobile, PbAoE shade you can’t get close.

Like seriously...

More condi cleaner should give a 1-2 sec of condi immunity. With that, condi spammers should be more carefull when throwing their condi burst.

Maybe weakness should be weaker but stack effectiveness up to 25.

The problem is each might corrupt gets 10 seconds of damage output reduction. That is enough uptime with consistent corruption to outclass even the most might generating builds.

As mentioned might to weakness makes sense conceptually but the relative conversion power is way off. Either the corruption duration needs to be much shorter or the weakness debuff needs to be redesigned to allow an easier comparison for balance purposes.

Protection becomes vulnerability is a good comparison because the conversion is to three stacks of vuln which turns a 33% damage taken reduction to a 3% damage taken increase. So unlike might to weakness a corrupt means they no longer have the boon and take 3% damage bonus for a total increase post-corrupt of 36%.

Here the original boon in a single stack is relatively weak but the corrupt effect assumes a comparison of 25 stacks of might to weakness. You might say this is a problem inherent to boon corrupting a stacking boon which may vary a lot in effectiveness to a non-stacking debuff.

@Delweyn.1309 said:More condi cleaner should give a 1-2 sec of condi immunity. With that, condi spammers should be more carefull when throwing their condi burst.

That's it.With a Dragon hunter i first managed to cleanse 5 with f2, then convert 8 with meditation.Got 8 conditions again in the next 8 sec.

Condispam has imho some problems

• Persistent ( while a physical dmg once avoided is avoided )
• Too many conditions ( damaging conditions + non damaging conditions )
• Condi Cleanse works it a very bad way ( there should be a way to chose what to remove, as you can use a skill to remove imparing movement effects, you should be able to clean on use damagin condition effects ).
• You can't avoid all shades, also because the scourge itself is a shade ( you can't simply go outside the shades, if you are a melee class then jokes on you, because the scourge could manage to follow you ).

Therefore, a class with only has aoe, in a capture point pvp mode, shouldn't exist ( you can dodge all dh traps with a single dodge, but with scourge you can't ).

@Shirlias.8104 said:

@Delweyn.1309 said:More condi cleaner should give a 1-2 sec of condi immunity. With that, condi spammers should be more carefull when throwing their condi burst.

• Persistent ( while a physical dmg once avoided is avoided )
• Too many conditions ( damaging conditions + non damaging conditions )
• Condi Cleanse works it a very bad way ( there should be a way to chose what to remove, as you can use a skill to remove imparing movement effects, you should be able to clean on use damagin condition effects ).
• You can't avoid all shades, also because the scourge itself is a shade ( you can't simply go outside the shades, if you are a melee class then jokes on you, because the scourge could manage to follow you ).

I think alot of the problem with people fighting scourges is the result of poorly managed condi cleansing. There are conditions you can have on you you know before you panic and cleanse them. Look for the torment/burn stacks. Not that single torment stack or the single vuln stack.

@insaneseagull.7063 said:

@Shirlias.8104 said:

@Delweyn.1309 said:More condi cleaner should give a 1-2 sec of condi immunity. With that, condi spammers should be more carefull when throwing their condi burst.

• Persistent ( while a physical dmg once avoided is avoided )
• Too many conditions ( damaging conditions + non damaging conditions )
• Condi Cleanse works it a very bad way ( there should be a way to chose what to remove, as you can use a skill to remove imparing movement effects, you should be able to clean on use damagin condition effects ).
• You can't avoid all shades, also because the scourge itself is a shade ( you can't simply go outside the shades, if you are a melee class then jokes on you, because the scourge could manage to follow you ).

Nothing change because after cleanse you get CC'd another time and get the same condis of before even more. Every single weapon or utility generate some sort of boons, it is impossible go boonless against a scourge and expect to win with autoattacks that don't make you have boons.

DO scourge needs to corrupt with every punishment skill?

I mean, corrupt boons is a very powerfull tool, maybe is better that punishments just dispell boons and apply torment plus cripple, rather than corrupt them.

@Conqueror.3682 said:DO scourge needs to corrupt with every punishment skill?

I mean, corrupt boons is a very powerfull tool, maybe is better that punishments just dispell boons and apply torment plus cripple, rather than corrupt them.

This is what punishment skills already do.They turn a boon specifically into torment and criplpe.